History Main / AntiheroSubstitute

The moment when the creators realize this and decide to push the big ResetButton is beginning of the hero's return: [[HesBack first hero is back]], and often has a fight with the AntiHeroSubstitute for his position. Of course, however contemptuous the AntiHero dubs him "[[GoodIsOldFashioned outdated]]", the original hero wins and [[StatusQuoIsGod takes the story back to the point right before the new guy took over]]. The AntiHeroSubstitute becomes forgotten as fast as possible, and the StoryArc featuring him becomes a DorkAge. Alternatively, the AntiHeroSubstitute gets a name change and, now that he's not replacing a much loved character, may be RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap.

** And now Johnny got tricked into passing his power onto new host. WordOfGod already confirmed that it's gonna bite him in the butt once he'll realize that new Ghost Rider may have few loose screws and he just created another AntiHeroSubstitute for himself.

* Happened, from all people, to TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of [[NinetiesAntiHero Nineties Anti Heroes]]. For many people Authority are a buch of [[JerkAss Jerk Asses]] at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they looks like frickng saints.

* Happened, from all people, to TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of [[NinetiesAntiHero Nineties Anti Heroes]]. For many people Authority are a buch of [[JerkAss Jerk Asses]] at best and [[HeroicSociopath Heroic Sociopaths]] at worst, but comparing to replacements they looks like frickng saints.

*** Amusingly, [=McGinnis=] was created by [[SpinoffBabies the opposite kind]] of ExecutiveMeddling, as WB executives wanted a "[[HighSchoolAU Batman in high school!]]" show to connect with the kids. The writers took one look at the concept and decided that obeying it would do bad things to their ''BatmanTheAnimatedSeries'' continuity. [[ExactWords Then they noticed that at no point did the pitch specify that Batman had to be "Bruce Wayne"]].

*** Amusingly, [=McGinnis=] was created by [[SpinoffBabies the opposite kind]] of ExecutiveMeddling, as WB executives wanted a "[[HighSchoolAU Batman in high school!]]" show to connect with the kids. The writers took one look at the concept and decided that doing so would probably do bad things to the ''BatmanTheAnimatedSeries'' continuity; [[ExactWords but at no point did the pitch specify that Batman had to be "Bruce Wayne"]].

** And, of course, while Terry Mc Ginnis of ''BatmanBeyond'' has most of the heroic qualities of the original, the series premise of a hot-headed SnarkKnight and former juvenile delinquent stepping into Bruce's place after the latter's retirement is very much in line with this trope.

** During the ''{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of a high-quality ''{{Doom}}'' mod.

** And, of course, while Terry Mc Ginnis of ''BatmanBeyond'' has most of the heroic qualities of the original, the series premise of a hot-headed SnarkKnight stepping into Bruce's place after the latter's retirement is very much in line with this trope.

** Comparably, Venom could count as a rare villain-to-villain example of this. Eddie Brock, the original Venom was certainly a homicidal maniac, but he eventually was tailored into a NinetiesAntiHero of sorts. The third Venom, Mack Gargan (the Scorpion) is eviler than Brock and thus since he pretends to be a hero as part of the Dark Avengers, he's both an AntiHeroSubstitute for SpiderMan (who he impersonates) ''and'' Venom. The second Venom (Angelo Fortunato) didn't last long enough to be considered a subsitute

* After Horatio Hellpop gave up the mantle of {{Nexus}} it was taken by Stan Korivitsky. Sadly, mission of killing worst murderers was too much for him, and he quickly snapped and turned worse than those he was supposed to kill. That forced Horatio to take back Nexus powers and kill him.
* GhostRider has an odd example. He is already an AntiHero but in the nineties, a character named ''Vengance'' showed up who was supposed to be a DarkerAndEdgier version of a character that was already the epitome of DarkerAndEdgier.

** And Steel was a complete ''inversion'' of this; if anything, he was [[BeyondTheImpossible even more heroic than the original]]. Also, unlike the other three, Steel admitted from the start he wasn't really Superman, but that he was trying to represent the spirit of what Superman stood for.

** Played straight, however, was Guy Gardner replacing Hal Jordan in 1985. (To clarify: Guy Gardner is not some crazy killing machine or anything (unless you count the Warrior storylines where he's a living weapon); he just has more of a fly-off-half-cocked, kick-butt-take-names, punch-first-ask-questions-later personality than Hal.)
*** He's the gym teacher everyone despised in high school.

** Like ''Knightfall'' this was apparently a deliberate in your face. And the same thing pretty much is going on now with the Bucky/Winter Soldier Captain America. In fact, in the current mini-series where Steve is being brought back, he pretty much implies that Bucky becoming a gun wielding crazy is a FateWorseThanDeath for him.
** Except Bucky Cap has proven to be quite popular, earned a significant fan base in his own right, and has been confirmed to continue being Captain America even after Steve Rogers has been brought back. It probably helps that Bucky has made it his life's mission to honour Steve's ideals as best he can.
*** Also, "gun-wielding crazy?" Bucky definitely has his head on straight; he doesn't have Steve's augmented strength so he uses guns, just like ''every soldier anywhere since their invention.''
**** Bucky was BrainwashedAndCrazy for decades in-story between his supposed death in WorldWarII and his return to continuity. He may indeed be trying to live up to Steve's ideals, but "gun-wielding crazy" is a definite part of the character's backstory and his characterization as the Winter Soldier.

** This was a bit of a subversion, as Thor was much more willing to kill a dangerous foe than Thunderstrike was. Thunderstrike did, however, look the part. (He came across as a dork when he tried to sound like an anti-hero)

** [[spoiler: May is not dead. Duh.]]

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** During the ''{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was paralyzed by Bane and his cowl was taken by Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of a high-quality ''{{Doom}}'' mod.

** Like Nightfall this was apparently a deliberate in your face. And the same thing pretty much is going on now with the Bucky/Winter Soldier Captain America. In fact, in the current mini-series where Steve is being brought back, he pretty much implies that Bucky becoming a gun wielding crazy is a FateWorseThanDeath for him.

* Most of Norman Osborn's Dark Avengers are villains that had their costumes redesigned to look like familiar heroes.
** He's gone a bit overboard on this front, creating the Dark (now Shadow) X-Men, making the HAMMER organization to replace SHIELD, and forming The Cabal, essentially a copy of the already morally ambiguous Illuminati.
*** And his own Initiative with TheHood and his gang. Osborn is trying to reshape whole Marvel Universe at his image, I think.
**** Comparably, Venom could count as a rare villain-to-villain example of this. Eddie Brock, the original Venom was certainly a homicidal maniac, but he eventually was tailored into a NinetiesAntiHero of sorts, and the second Venom, Mack Gargan (the Scorpion) is eviler than Brock and thus since he pretends to be a hero as part of the Dark Avengers, he's both an AntiHeroSubstitute for SpiderMan (who he impersonates) ''and'' Venom.
**** Technically, Mac Gargan is the ''third'' Venom, but Angelo Fortunato didn't last very long.

** During the ''{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was paralyzed by Bane and his cowl was taken by Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!")
*** Azrael's Batman tenure was made into a famous TotalConversion GameMod for ''{{Doom}}'', which featured the player as Azrael/Batman casually killing hundreds of criminals with bladed Batarangs, wrist-mounted shotguns and machine guns, bombs, and a flamethrower, and featured boss fights against many members of the RoguesGallery culminating in a fistfight to the death with Bane. Although [=AzBats=] himself may not be popular among comics fans, the ''Doom'' mod is one of the most popular and celebrated Doom mods of all time and praised for its high-quality artwork and clever Dehacked scripting. The HarderThanHard difficulty was named "Knightfall" as a nod to the story arc.

** During the ''Battle for the Cowl'' event, Jason Todd took up the mantle of Batman after [[spoiler: his apparent death]] and became a gun-wielding psychopath. He was played as the villain of the story, however.
*** Earlier, Jason Todd also impersonated Nightwing and became a knife-wielding psychopath.
**** And since Todd was also the second Robin, he arguably impersonated Dick Grayson ''again'' (who was already Batman when Todd did that, too) and became a swearing, smoking, possibly-murdering problem child.
** During the same arc, Two-Face also attempted to become the next Batman and Hush impersonated Bruce Wayne with the help of MagicPlasticSurgery.

** Cassandra Cain as {{Batgirl}}, if that WallBanger storyline where she turned evil [[DisContinuity is still in your personal canon]].
*** She is a subversion, however, since she's very much TheCape.
*** Honestly speaking she looked like one in that gimp suit and had the backstory tailor made for it. The fact that she was not by any stretch of the imagination is a testament to how well her solo title was written.

** During the ''{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was paralyzed by Bane and his cowl was taken by Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] and reclaim his old identity.
*** Though [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Ruthless Killer Batman? There you go!")
**** While ruthless his total body count in his over hundred issue run was two people via inaction. Very bad by Batman standards but not so much when you compare him to other 90s anti heroes.

** And Steel was a complete ''inversion'' of this; if anything, he was [[BeyondTheImpossible even more heroic than the original]].
*** And unlike the other three, Steel admitted from the start he wasn't really Superman, but that he was trying to represent the spirit of what Superman stood for.

* Even earlier, in the mid-70's, IronMan was temporarily replaced by Rhodey, who later became War Machine.
** And then there was [[DorkAge Teen Tony]]...

*** Which is probably why he's the only one that got permanently integrated into the DCU and is liked by fans.
**** Wasn't Superboy in Young Justice, Teen Titans, Infinite Crisis...
**** And Cyborg Superman was a prominent (and [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds actually]] [[DeathSeeker pretty]] [[DealWiththeDevil sympathetic]]) character in [[GreenLantern Sinestro Corps.]] Really, only Eradicator is particularly disliked. This is understandable.

** Cassandra Cain as {{Batgirl}}.

* ''UminekoNoNakuKoroNi'' has [[spoiler: Villainous example. Beatrice gave her title to Eva's hidden personality. When Eva-Beatrice was acting like CompleteMonster all-time, Beato get few PetTheDog moments, and make HeroicSacrifice, after realizing her mistakes. Then it's revealed it was all a clever BatmanGambit she put in order to make Battler admitt she's a witch.]]

** Cassandra Cain as {{Batgirl}}, if that WallBanger storyline where she turned evil [[DisContinuity is still in your personal canon]].
*** She is a subversion, however, since she's very much TheCape.
*** Honestly speaking she looked like one in that gimp suit and had the backstory tailor made for it. The fact that she was not by any stretch of the imagination is a testament to how well her solo title was written.