History Main / AntiheroSubstitute

16th Mar '17 1:09:08 PM lillolillo
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* Happened, of all people, to ComicBook/TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of {{Nineties Anti Hero}}es. For many people Authority are a bunch of {{Jerkass}}ses at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they looks like fricking saints.

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* Happened, of all people, to ComicBook/TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of {{Nineties Anti Hero}}es. For many people Authority are a bunch of {{Jerkass}}ses at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they looks look like fricking saints.
14th Mar '17 10:33:08 AM DLMaximum1
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** And while we're on the subject: Leonard Sampson was a nerdy little nebbish scientist who managed to de-Hulkify Hulk, turning him back into Bruce Banner. He then used a portion of the stored Hulk-energy to turn himself into Doc Sampson, who wasn't really an anti-hero so much as he was just kind of an egotistical jerk. When he started wooing Betty, it convinced Bruce (who was initially ''thrilled'' to be himself again) to use the ''rest'' of the stored Hulk-energy to re-Hulkify himself.

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** And while we're on the subject: Dr. Leonard Sampson Samson was a nerdy little nebbish scientist who managed to de-Hulkify Hulk, turning him back into Bruce Banner. He then used a portion of the stored Hulk-energy gamma energy to turn himself into Doc Sampson, Samson, who wasn't really an anti-hero so much as he was just kind of an egotistical jerk. When he started wooing Betty, it convinced Bruce (who was initially ''thrilled'' to be himself again) to use the ''rest'' of the stored Hulk-energy gamma energy to re-Hulkify himself.turn himself back into the Hulk.



* In TheEighties, Steve Rogers, the original ComicBook/CaptainAmerica, was replaced by John Walker, a NinetiesAntiHero version of himself. To his credit, Walker did eventually make an honest effort to emulate Rogers' ethics until the ComicBook/RedSkull completed his manipulation of him. When Rogers regained the mantle, Walker continued operating as the U.S. Agent. In something of an inversion from the previous examples, the DarkerAndEdgier Walker wore the classic red, white, and blue Cap outfit, while Steve took up a black costume and shield as The Captain.

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* In TheEighties, Steve Rogers, the original ComicBook/CaptainAmerica, was replaced by John Walker, a NinetiesAntiHero version of himself. To his credit, Walker did eventually make an honest effort to emulate Rogers' ethics until the ComicBook/RedSkull completed his manipulation of him. When Rogers regained the mantle, Walker continued operating as the U.S. Agent. In something of an inversion from the previous examples, the DarkerAndEdgier Walker wore the classic red, white, and blue Cap outfit, while Steve took up a black costume and shield as The Captain.
7th Mar '17 12:26:23 AM LinTaylor
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* The ''Franchise/{{Gundam}}'' franchise has of course runs the gamut of protagonists over its [[LongRunners nearly 40-year history]], but probably the biggest example of this is Mikazuki Augus, protagonist of ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamIronBloodedOrphans''. The heroes of the last few ''Gundam'' series before him (particularly [[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEED Kira]] [[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny Yamato]], [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam00 Setsuna]] [[Anime/Gundam00AWakeningOfTheTrailblazer F. Seiei]] and [[Anime/MobileSuitGundamAGE Kio Asuno]]) were {{AllLovingHero}}es and {{MessianicArchetype}}s who [[MartialPacifist deliberately avoided killing even enemy combatants]]. In contrast, Mika is a CombatPragmatist ChildSoldier who doesn't spare his opponents a second thought; if you attack him or his [[TrueCompanions "family"]], he's going to kill you, and God help you if you actually [[ExtremeMeleeRevenge hurt someone he cares about]]. He also contrasts with most other Gundam protagonists by '''not''' being a WarriorTherapist, and even shutting down opponents who try the same by telling them "YouTalkToMuch", or just straight up [[KilledMidSentence killing them mid-sentence]]. His character is actually quite divisive among the fandom, with some detractors even claiming that his cold-blooded, merciless nature makes him a straight-up VillainProtagonist.

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* The ''Franchise/{{Gundam}}'' franchise has of course runs run the gamut of protagonists over its [[LongRunners nearly 40-year history]], but probably the biggest example of this is Mikazuki Augus, protagonist of ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamIronBloodedOrphans''. The heroes of the last few ''Gundam'' series before him (particularly [[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEED Kira]] [[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny Yamato]], [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam00 Setsuna]] [[Anime/Gundam00AWakeningOfTheTrailblazer F. Seiei]] and [[Anime/MobileSuitGundamAGE Kio Asuno]]) were {{AllLovingHero}}es {{All Loving Hero}}es and {{MessianicArchetype}}s {{Messianic Archetype}}s who [[MartialPacifist deliberately avoided killing even enemy combatants]]. In contrast, Mika is a CombatPragmatist ChildSoldier who doesn't spare his opponents a second thought; if you attack him or his [[TrueCompanions "family"]], he's going to kill you, and God help you if you actually [[ExtremeMeleeRevenge hurt someone he cares about]]. He also contrasts with most other Gundam protagonists by '''not''' being a WarriorTherapist, and even shutting down opponents who try the same by telling them "YouTalkToMuch", "YouTalkTooMuch", or just straight up [[KilledMidSentence killing them mid-sentence]]. His character is actually quite divisive among the fandom, with some detractors even claiming that his cold-blooded, merciless nature makes him a straight-up VillainProtagonist.
7th Mar '17 12:24:38 AM LinTaylor
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* The ''Franchise/{{Gundam}}'' franchise has of course runs the gamut of protagonists over its [[LongRunners nearly 40-year history]], but probably the biggest example of this is Mikazuki Augus, protagonist of ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamIronBloodedOrphans''. The heroes of the last few ''Gundam'' series before him (particularly [[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEED Kira]] [[Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny Yamato]], [[Anime/MobileSuitGundam00 Setsuna]] [[Anime/Gundam00AWakeningOfTheTrailblazer F. Seiei]] and [[Anime/MobileSuitGundamAGE Kio Asuno]]) were {{AllLovingHero}}es and {{MessianicArchetype}}s who [[MartialPacifist deliberately avoided killing even enemy combatants]]. In contrast, Mika is a CombatPragmatist ChildSoldier who doesn't spare his opponents a second thought; if you attack him or his [[TrueCompanions "family"]], he's going to kill you, and God help you if you actually [[ExtremeMeleeRevenge hurt someone he cares about]]. He also contrasts with most other Gundam protagonists by '''not''' being a WarriorTherapist, and even shutting down opponents who try the same by telling them "YouTalkToMuch", or just straight up [[KilledMidSentence killing them mid-sentence]]. His character is actually quite divisive among the fandom, with some detractors even claiming that his cold-blooded, merciless nature makes him a straight-up VillainProtagonist.
4th Feb '17 11:05:26 PM Dravencour
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** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from the Batman position his solo series lasted over a hundred issues.

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** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar. KnightTemplar after [[BrainwashedAndCrazy his latent brainwashing]] was accidentally triggered by Scarecrow's fear gas. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell under ComicBook/LadyShiva to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from the Batman position his solo series lasted over a hundred issues.
31st Dec '16 12:27:55 AM Tron80
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* ''Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}'':
** The original Supergirl -a classic Cape- was killed in the ''Comicbook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' and replaced with Matrix, a shape-shifter mass of protoplasmic matter who took shape of a blond woman wearing a female version of Superman's costume for unexplained reasons. Matrix was unpredictable, prone to sudden outbursts of violence, and wore a {{Stripperific}}, spiky version of her costume for a while. To sum up, DC replaced [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/2a/7f/5b/2a7f5bfad3d75f836a24e71da0ad5655.jpg Kara Zor-El]] with [[http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/4/34957-5263-39047-1-supergirl.jpg this]].
** Later on, Matrix merged with a troubled human girl named Linda Danvers. [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/18/86/37/188637e318e00ef52ae2f2fb10812766.jpg Linda]] was also replaced with [[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Cir-El.jpg Cir-El]], a black-wearing, angry, angsty edgy teenager with a dark and troubled past. Cir-El was very unpopular, and she was soon replaced with a modern version of Kara Zor-El, inverting the trope.
13th Sep '16 10:53:17 PM Arawn999
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** Comparably, ComicBook/{{Venom}} could count as a rare villain-to-villain example of this. Eddie Brock, the original Venom was certainly a homicidal maniac, but he eventually was tailored into a NinetiesAntiHero of sorts. The third Venom, Mack Gargan (the Scorpion) is more evil than Brock and thus since he pretends to be a hero as part of the Dark Avengers, he's both an AntiHeroSubstitute for Franchise/SpiderMan (who he impersonates) ''and'' Venom. The second Venom (Angelo Fortunato) didn't last long enough to be considered a substitute. Now that Flash Thompson is Venom, you could argue for it being an odd reverse villain-hero example; Flash more heroic than Eddie at his very best.

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** Comparably, ComicBook/{{Venom}} could count as a rare villain-to-villain example of this. Eddie Brock, the original Venom was certainly a homicidal maniac, but he eventually was tailored into a NinetiesAntiHero of sorts. The third Venom, Mack Mac Gargan (the Scorpion) is more evil than Brock and thus since he pretends to be a hero as part of the Dark Avengers, he's both an AntiHeroSubstitute for Franchise/SpiderMan (who he impersonates) ''and'' Venom. The second Venom (Angelo Fortunato) didn't last long enough to be considered a substitute. Now that Flash Thompson is Venom, you could argue for it being an odd reverse villain-hero example; Flash being more heroic than Eddie at his very best.
16th Jul '16 1:18:45 AM WillBGood
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** [[spoiler:Of course, the second the real Authority comes back, they start their revenge by killing in cold blood the]] [[spoiler:''only'']] [[spoiler: redeemable character among the new team: Rush, the Canadian replacement for Swift, who didn't kill anybody they wouldn't have and hated all her teammates. They catch hell for this later.]]

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** [[spoiler:Of course, the second the real Authority comes back, they start their revenge by killing in cold blood the]] [[spoiler:''only'']] [[spoiler: the ''only'' redeemable character among the new team: Rush, the Canadian replacement for Swift, who didn't kill anybody they wouldn't have and hated all her teammates. They catch hell for this later.]]
16th Jul '16 1:18:14 AM WillBGood
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* Happened, of all people, to ComicBook/TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of {{NinetiesAntiHero}}s. For many people Authority are a buch of [[JerkAss Jerk Asses]] at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they looks like frickng saints.

to:

* Happened, of all people, to ComicBook/TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of {{NinetiesAntiHero}}s. {{Nineties Anti Hero}}es. For many people Authority are a buch bunch of [[JerkAss Jerk Asses]] {{Jerkass}}ses at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they looks like frickng fricking saints.
16th Jul '16 1:09:35 AM WillBGood
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* Since ''Manga/JojosBizarreAdventure'' changes protagonists every part, this was bound to happen. The goofy and cheerful Joseph Jostar is replaced with the emotionally distant and serious Jotaro Kujo.

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* Since ''Manga/JojosBizarreAdventure'' ''Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventure'' changes protagonists every part, this was bound to happen. The goofy and cheerful Joseph Jostar is replaced with the emotionally distant and serious Jotaro Kujo.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.AntiheroSubstitute