History Main / AntiheroSubstitute

4th Feb '17 11:05:26 PM Dravencour
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** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from the Batman position his solo series lasted over a hundred issues.

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** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar. KnightTemplar after [[BrainwashedAndCrazy his latent brainwashing]] was accidentally triggered by Scarecrow's fear gas. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell under ComicBook/LadyShiva to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from the Batman position his solo series lasted over a hundred issues.
31st Dec '16 12:27:55 AM Tron80
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* ''Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}'':
** The original Supergirl -a classic Cape- was killed in the ''Comicbook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' and replaced with Matrix, a shape-shifter mass of protoplasmic matter who took shape of a blond woman wearing a female version of Superman's costume for unexplained reasons. Matrix was unpredictable, prone to sudden outbursts of violence, and wore a {{Stripperific}}, spiky version of her costume for a while. To sum up, DC replaced [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/2a/7f/5b/2a7f5bfad3d75f836a24e71da0ad5655.jpg Kara Zor-El]] with [[http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/4/34957-5263-39047-1-supergirl.jpg this]].
** Later on, Matrix merged with a troubled human girl named Linda Danvers. [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/18/86/37/188637e318e00ef52ae2f2fb10812766.jpg Linda]] was also replaced with [[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Cir-El.jpg Cir-El]], a black-wearing, angry, angsty edgy teenager with a dark and troubled past. Cir-El was very unpopular, and she was soon replaced with a modern version of Kara Zor-El, inverting the trope.
13th Sep '16 10:53:17 PM Arawn999
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** Comparably, ComicBook/{{Venom}} could count as a rare villain-to-villain example of this. Eddie Brock, the original Venom was certainly a homicidal maniac, but he eventually was tailored into a NinetiesAntiHero of sorts. The third Venom, Mack Gargan (the Scorpion) is more evil than Brock and thus since he pretends to be a hero as part of the Dark Avengers, he's both an AntiHeroSubstitute for Franchise/SpiderMan (who he impersonates) ''and'' Venom. The second Venom (Angelo Fortunato) didn't last long enough to be considered a substitute. Now that Flash Thompson is Venom, you could argue for it being an odd reverse villain-hero example; Flash more heroic than Eddie at his very best.

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** Comparably, ComicBook/{{Venom}} could count as a rare villain-to-villain example of this. Eddie Brock, the original Venom was certainly a homicidal maniac, but he eventually was tailored into a NinetiesAntiHero of sorts. The third Venom, Mack Mac Gargan (the Scorpion) is more evil than Brock and thus since he pretends to be a hero as part of the Dark Avengers, he's both an AntiHeroSubstitute for Franchise/SpiderMan (who he impersonates) ''and'' Venom. The second Venom (Angelo Fortunato) didn't last long enough to be considered a substitute. Now that Flash Thompson is Venom, you could argue for it being an odd reverse villain-hero example; Flash being more heroic than Eddie at his very best.
16th Jul '16 1:18:45 AM WillBGood
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** [[spoiler:Of course, the second the real Authority comes back, they start their revenge by killing in cold blood the]] [[spoiler:''only'']] [[spoiler: redeemable character among the new team: Rush, the Canadian replacement for Swift, who didn't kill anybody they wouldn't have and hated all her teammates. They catch hell for this later.]]

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** [[spoiler:Of course, the second the real Authority comes back, they start their revenge by killing in cold blood the]] [[spoiler:''only'']] [[spoiler: the ''only'' redeemable character among the new team: Rush, the Canadian replacement for Swift, who didn't kill anybody they wouldn't have and hated all her teammates. They catch hell for this later.]]
16th Jul '16 1:18:14 AM WillBGood
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* Happened, of all people, to ComicBook/TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of {{NinetiesAntiHero}}s. For many people Authority are a buch of [[JerkAss Jerk Asses]] at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they looks like frickng saints.

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* Happened, of all people, to ComicBook/TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of {{NinetiesAntiHero}}s. {{Nineties Anti Hero}}es. For many people Authority are a buch bunch of [[JerkAss Jerk Asses]] {{Jerkass}}ses at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they looks like frickng fricking saints.
16th Jul '16 1:09:35 AM WillBGood
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* Since ''Manga/JojosBizarreAdventure'' changes protagonists every part, this was bound to happen. The goofy and cheerful Joseph Jostar is replaced with the emotionally distant and serious Jotaro Kujo.

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* Since ''Manga/JojosBizarreAdventure'' ''Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventure'' changes protagonists every part, this was bound to happen. The goofy and cheerful Joseph Jostar is replaced with the emotionally distant and serious Jotaro Kujo.
16th Jul '16 1:09:17 AM WillBGood
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* Since ''Manga/Jojos Bizarre Adventure'' changes protagonists every part, this was bound to happen. The goofy and cheerful Joseph Jostar is replaced with the emotionally distant and serious Jotaro Kujo.

to:

* Since ''Manga/Jojos Bizarre Adventure'' ''Manga/JojosBizarreAdventure'' changes protagonists every part, this was bound to happen. The goofy and cheerful Joseph Jostar is replaced with the emotionally distant and serious Jotaro Kujo.
19th Jun '16 12:03:21 AM Doug86
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* In an inverse of this trope, Comicbook/GreenLantern Hal Jordan inexplicably [[FaceHeelTurn turned evil]] during the ''Emerald Twilight'' arc and the role of "original hero" as described by the intro was played by his replacement Kyle Rayner.

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* In an inverse of this trope, Comicbook/GreenLantern Franchise/GreenLantern Hal Jordan inexplicably [[FaceHeelTurn turned evil]] during the ''Emerald Twilight'' arc and the role of "original hero" as described by the intro was played by his replacement Kyle Rayner.
28th May '16 4:58:56 PM LeifEriksson
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Added DiffLines:

* Since ''Manga/Jojos Bizarre Adventure'' changes protagonists every part, this was bound to happen. The goofy and cheerful Joseph Jostar is replaced with the emotionally distant and serious Jotaro Kujo.
19th May '16 6:39:28 PM Doug86
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* Intentionally done again in the '90s, when the ComicBook/FantasticFour were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and SpiderMan, {{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/IncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.

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* Intentionally done again in the '90s, when the ComicBook/FantasticFour were [[ComicBookDeath presumed dead]], and SpiderMan, {{Wolverine}}, Franchise/SpiderMan, ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}, [[ComicBook/IncredibleHulk The Hulk]], and Comicbook/GhostRider took their places, swearing to avenge the heroes' deaths. Only three of the four were really {{Anti Hero}}es, but the extremely ill-suited-for-eachother group fought amongst themselves so much and were so bad at emulating the FF's legendary teamwork that Spidey was pretty much ineffectual in getting them to shape up and the whole team made the Fantastic Four's dysfunctional family dynamics look incredibly well-adjusted by comparison.



* [[ZigZaggingTrope Zig-zagged]] for SpiderMan in ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga''. The original aim of the series, itself a continuation of a Silver Age storyline, was an attempt to roll back the creeping cynicism of the nineties. Whilst Peter Parker continued to spiral ever downward into depression and anger, [[ComicBook/ScarletSpider Ben Reilly]] was introduced as a LighterAndSofter Spider-Man with the same set of memories as the original, a powerful statement of just how far Peter had fallen.

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* [[ZigZaggingTrope Zig-zagged]] for SpiderMan Franchise/SpiderMan in ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga''. The original aim of the series, itself a continuation of a Silver Age storyline, was an attempt to roll back the creeping cynicism of the nineties. Whilst Peter Parker continued to spiral ever downward into depression and anger, [[ComicBook/ScarletSpider Ben Reilly]] was introduced as a LighterAndSofter Spider-Man with the same set of memories as the original, a powerful statement of just how far Peter had fallen.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.AntiheroSubstitute