History HonorBeforeReason / TableTopGames

* In ''TabletopGame/BloodBowl'', the Bright Crusaders and the Heroes of Justice are the only teams who categorically refuse to cheat in any way. The problem is, [[CrapsackWorld naturally]], they're the only people who have this compunction - in fact, for the Goblin team, cheating is their ''entire strategy''. And naturally, for these teams, FailureIsTheOnlyOption.

* The Clans from ''TabletopGame/{{Battletech}}'' suffer from this when they invade the Inner Sphere. One of the biggest reason for their failure is that the Inner Sphere refuses to fight to the Clans' rules, and actually takes advantage of the Clans' adherence to their code. Example: Clans traditionally begin battles with a challenge that states how many troops they are committing to the assault, and asks the enemy what they're preparing to defend with (this actually makes sense for inter-Clan warfare; they're short on resources, so they want to keep battles small so as to minimize casualties and collateral damage). The Inner Sphere, of course, would lie. Later averted by most Clanners, who simply come to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't want to fight by the rules shouldn't be protected by them.

** Another reason for their failure lays in the fact that they must quantify their honor. For the Clans honor is not an abstract concept; they were created by a ProudWarriorRaceGuy. When preparing for combat they will enter into bidding rounds and the lowest bidder will have the honor of proving that they bid exacly the right ammount of troops needed to win the battle. Clans defy reason when their commanders will willingly bid lower than the minimum number of troops needed to win the combat, and that according to Clan estimates!

* The Clans from ''{{Battletech}}'' suffer from this when they invade the Inner Sphere. One of the biggest reason for their failure is that the Inner Sphere refuses to fight to the Clans' rules, and actually takes advantage of the Clans' adherence to their code. Example: Clans traditionally begin battles with a challenge that states how many troops they are committing to the assault, and asks the enemy what they're preparing to defend with (this actually makes sense for inter-Clan warfare; they're short on resources, so they want to keep battles small so as to minimize casualties and collateral damage). The Inner Sphere, of course, would lie. Later averted by most Clanners, who simply come to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't want to fight by the rules shouldn't be protected by them.
** Another reason of they failure lays in the fact that they must quantify their honor. For the Clans honor is not an abstract concept, they were created by a ProudWarriorRaceGuy. When preparing for combat they will enter into bidding rounds and the lowest bidder will have the honor of proving that they bid exacly the right ammount of troops needed to win the battle. Clans defy reason when their commanders will willingly bid lower than the minimum number of troops needed to win the combat, and that according to Clan estimates!

** While it is an aesthetic choice, it is noted that the Ultramarines, whose codex tends to be the rules Space Marines go by, consider stealth and indirect warfare cowardly, which contributed badly to the Horus Heresy when their Primarch [[LawfulStupid Roboute Guilliman]] refused to acknowledge his brother-primarch [[MagnificentBastard Alpharius]] for his brilliant and flexible combination of adaptive military combat and undermining the enemy from within even when Alpharius went to extreme lengths to prove that his methods were worthy because he judged Alpharius's deviation from the rigid outlines of the already established doctorines dishonorable. This would come back to bite Guilliman later when the Alpha Legion turned traitor because Horus was one of the only primarchs who appreciated them, and underestimating their adaptable tactics cost the Ultramarines dearly in combat and allowed the Alpha Legion to continue to operate with impunity within the Imperium.
**** Ironically the [[DependsOnTheWriter current]] state of the Codex is that it has so many tips on how to be a CombatPragmatist and generalized tips (like use of camouflage) that even following it to the letter allows a Marine to be very tactical flexible.
*** The Horus Heresy novel 'Know No Fear' shows us Guilliman's real problem with the Alpha Legion isn't so much that they were dishonorable, but that their thinking was inferior. Guilliman preferred strict structure and fighting enemy combatants, while Alpharius taught his Legion to favor unstructured combat and command; to attack from within, and to not limit their targeting to military targets. While in the 41st millennium Guilliman's attitude seems silly, it made a lot of sense in the 31st millennium - It had made the Ultramarines the uncontested, most successful Space Marine legion of the Crusade, taking more planets then any other. In addition, their straight, honorable combat often made integrating whoever the conquered into the Imperium far smoother and easier due to the respect of their defeated foes. The Alpha Legion tended to leave planets confused, decimated, and all together very, very unhappy with them. It should be noted, however, that the Alpha Legion did not turn to Chaos over this minor spat - It's just why the current Ultramarines think they did. Which is more of a Pride Before Reason problem.

* The still-really-popular Marvel Superheroes RPG had this as a ''game mechanic''. You couldn't use use MindControl ''in any circumstance'' without losing Karma unless you were a villain. The idea being, of course, that the GM should ''always'' include a way to win ''without'' removing a person's free will. This ''was'' a superhero game, after all!
* The godess Rondra and her church of the pen & paper RPG TheDarkEye are a fine example of this trope: Over the course of time Rondra [[{{Flanderization}} degenerated]] from a goddess of war into a goddess of honor, going so far as to deem battles between armies and the art of war (strategy and tactics, that is) as "necessary evils" and only approving of one-on-one combats, which meet [[LetsFightLikeGentlemen certain standards of honorable behavior]]. This development hasn't been without consequences in the game world itself: it has been mentioned that army officiers tend to worship Hesinde (a godess of knowledge) or Phex (a trickster god of luck and wits) instead of Rondra. Not to mention Kor, a merciless god of bloodshed and mercenaries, who has a considerable amount of [[SociopathicHero followers among]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism disillusioned]] [[AntiHero warriors]]. And it seems as if yet another god prepares to compete with Rondra and take over her old domain: Nandus, a god of reason, whose followers unsurprisingly prefer [[CombatPragmatist reason over honor]].

* A possible trait in {{GURPS}} is "Code of Honor". However, this is an unusual variant that has different degrees, including [[HonorAmongThieves a Pirate's Code of Honor"]] as a lower level than a Knightly one.

* Dwarves in WarhammerFantasy are this trope's posterboys. If they have some great dishonor that befalls them, sometimes as minor as not keeping a promise or a young dwarf being turned down by the girl they fancy, to something as major as kinslaying or failing to stop an assault on a stronghold, they lose the will to live. However Dwarves physically and psychologically find it impossible to commit suicide, so they become slayers and go fight the biggest baddest thing they can find until they find one that can kill them (they never fight to lose either).

** This is a major problem in the GotrekAndFelix series; a Slayer's shame will not be relieved until death, but Gotrek seems to be completely unbeatable. Another is that the shame must be foremost on their mind when they die to relieve it, and Snorri, another slayer, has taken a ''lot'' of blows to the head over his career as a slayer and can't remember what it was.

* A possible trait in {{GURPS}} is "Code of Honor".

** This is a major problem in the GotrekAndFelix series; a Slayer's shame will not be relieved until death, but Gotrek seems to be completely unbeatable.

** Another reason of they failure lays in the fact that they must quantify their honor. For the Clans honor is not an abstract concept, they were created by a ProudWarriorRaceGuy. When preparing for combat they will enter into bidding rounds and the lowest bidder will have the honor of proving that they bid exacly the right ammount of troops needed to win the battle. Clans defy reason when there commanders will willingly bid lower than the minimum number of troops needed to win the combat, and that according to Clan estimates!

* The godess Rondra and her church of the pen & paper RPG TheDarkEye are a fine example of this trope: Over the course of time Rondra [[{{Flanderization}} degenerated]] from a goddess of war into a goddess of honor, going so far as to deem battles between armies and the art of war (strategy and tactics, that is) as "necessary evils" and only approving of one-on-one combats, which meet [[LetsFightLikeGentlemen certain standards of honorable behavior]]. This development hasn't been without consequences in the game world itself: it has been mentioned, that army officiers tend to worship Hesinde (a godess of knowledge) or Phex (a trickster god of luck and wits) instead of Rondra. Not to mention Kor, a merciless god of bloodshed and mercenaries, who has a considerable amount of [[HeroicSociopath followers among]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism desillusioned]] [[AntiHero warriors]]. And it seems as if yet another god prepares to compete with Rondra and take over her old domain: Nandus, a god of reason, whose followers unsurprisingly prefer [[CombatPragmatist reason over honor]].
* High Compassion and Valour virtues in ''{{Exalted}}'' can create an ersatz form of this trope.
* Virtues work this way in ''{{Scion}}''. If a character wants to go against what their virtues would compel them to do they need to make a dice roll and fail to take the action, for example a character with Courage would have to fail a Courage roll to pass up on a fight with a dangerous opponent or willingly accept help from another person. If a Scion ignores their virtues too much they succumb to the virtue extremity and act out the extreme of the virtue.
* The Adamantine Arrow of ''MageTheAwakening'' have the importance of honour enshrined in their creed as "Enlightenment is Honour". The Arrow believe that oaths are a deep expression of one's soul, and that fighting without honour is meaningless, so when they [[IGaveMyWord give their word]] they take it ''very'' seriously. That said, they are still encouraged to consider a situation carefully before committing themselves to anything, that their oaths should be simple and state exactly what they intend, as well as accounting for all possibilities (for example "I will be dead before you have this grimoire" is considered less preferable to "I will be dead before ''the enemy'' has this grimoire" since the former doesn't account for former enemies becoming allies). Overall, while they should keep to their word and their code, they should be careful not to cripple themselves with it.
* One of the three Renown categories from ''Werewolf the Apocalypse'' is honour, which is often assiocated with the law-keeper Philodox and 'just' deeds.
* A possible trait in {{Gurps}} is "Code of Honor"
* In {{Traveller}} there are several variations of this for different cultures. The ''Fteirle'' code of the Aslan is highly developed as befits a ProudWarriorRace.
* Dwarves in Warhammer Fantasy are this trope's posterboys. If they have some great dishonor that befalls them, sometimes as minor as not keeping a promise or a young dwarf being turned down by the girl they fancy, to something as major as kinslaying or failing to stop an assault on a stronghold, they lose the will to live. However Dwarves physically and psychologically find it impossible to commit suicide, so they become slayers and go fight the biggest baddest thing they can find until they find one that can kill them (they never fight to lose either).

* ''{{Warhammer 40000}}'': Space Marines generally eschew camouflage in favor of wearing distinctively-colored armor, and often have troops whose primary purpose is to bear banners conferring only psychological advantages.
** This is more an aesthetic choice: Space Marines are in part analogues to knightly orders and warrior brotherhoods of old, and they're awesome enough warriors that camouflage isn't really a big deal. A better example would be times where a squad, company, or even entire Chapter of Space Marines go up against overwhelming odds to recover some sacred relic of their Chapter, which may very well be nothing more than a tattered old banner.
** While it is an aesthetic choice, it is noted that the Ultramarines, whose codex tends to be the rules Space Marines go by, consider stealth and indirect warfare cowardly, which contributed badly to the Horus Heresy when their Primarch [[LawfulStupid Roboute Guilliman]] refused to acknowledge his brother-primarch [[MagnificentBastard Alpharius]] for his brilliant and flexible combination of adaptive military combat and undermining the enemy from within even when Alpharius went to extreme lengths to prove that his methods were worthy because he judged Alpharius's deviation from the rigid outlines of the already established doctorines dishonorable. This would come back to bite Guilliman later when the Alpha Legion turned traitor because Horus was one of the only primarchs who appreciated them, and underestimating their adaptable tactics cost the Ultramarines dearly in combat and allowed the Alpha Legion to continue to operate with impunity within the Imperium.
* The still-really-popular Marvel Superheroes RPG had this as a ''game mechanic''. You couldn't use use MindControl ''in any circumstance'' without losing Karma unless you were a villain. The idea being, of course, that the GM should ''always'' include a way to win ''without'' removing a person's free will. This ''was'' a superhero game, after all!

* The Adamantine Arrow of ''MageTheAwakening'' have the importance of honour enshrined in their creed as "Enlightenment is Honour". The Arrow believe that oaths are a deep expression of one's soul, and that fighting without honour is meaningless, so when they [[IGaveMyWord give their word]] they take it ''very'' seriously. That said, they are still encouraged to consider a situation carefully before committing themselves to anything, that their oaths should be simple and state exactly what they intend, as well as accounting for all possibilities (for example "I will be dead before you have this grimoire" is considered less preferable to "I will be dead before ''the enemy'' has this grimoire" since the former doesn't account for former enemies becoming allies). Overall, while they should keep to their word and their code, they should be careful not to cripple themselves with it.

** While it is an aesthetic choice, it is noted that the Ultramarines, whose codex tends to be the rules Space Marines go by, consider stealth and indirect warfare cowardly, which contributed badly to the Horus Heresy when their Primarch [[LawfulStupid Roboute Guilliman]] refused to acknowledge his brother-primarch [[MagnificentBastard Alpharius]] for his brilliant and flexible combination of adaptive military combat and undermining the enemy from within even when Alpharius went to extreme lengths to prove that his methods were worthy because he judged Alpharius's deviation from the rigid outlines of the Codex dishonorable. This would come back to bite Guilliman later when the Alpha Legion turned traitor because Horus was one of the only primarchs who appreciated them, and underestimating their adaptable tactics cost the Ultramarines dearly in combat and allowed the Alpha Legion to continue to operate with impunity within the Imperium.

* ''{{Warhammer 40000}}'': Space Marines generally eschew camouflage in favor of wearing distinctively-colored armor, and often have troops whose primary purpose is to bear banners conferring only psychological advantages.

* The godess Rondra and her church of the pen & paper RPG ''The Dark Eye'' are a fine example of this trope: Over the course of time Rondra [[{{Flanderization}} degenerated]] from a goddess of war into a goddess of honor, going so far as to deem battles between armies and the art of war (strategy and tactics, that is) as "necessary evils" and only approving of one-on-one combats, which meet [[LetsFightLikeGentlemen certain standards of honorable behavior]]. This development hasn't been without consequences in the game world itself: it has been mentioned, that army officiers tend to worship Hesinde (a godess of knowledge) or Phex (a trickster god of luck and wits) instead of Rondra. Not to mention Kor, a merciless god of bloodshed and mercenaries, who has a considerable amount of [[HeroicSociopath followers among]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism desillusioned]] [[AntiHero warriors]]. And it seems as if yet another god prepares to compete with Rondra and take over her old domain: Nandus, a god of reason, whose followers unsurprisingly prefer [[CombatPragmatist reason over honor]].

* Dwarves in Warhammer Fantasy are this trope's posterboys. If they have some great dishonor that befalls them, sometimes as minor as not keeping a promise or a young dwarf being turned down by the girl they fancy, to something as major as kinslaying or failing to stop an assault on a stronghold, they lose the will to live. However Dwarves physically and psychologically find it impossible to commit suicide, so they become slayers and go fight the biggest baddest thing they can find until they find one that can kill them (they never fight to lose either).

* The Clans from ''{{Battletech}}'' suffer from this when they invade the Inner Sphere. One of the biggest reason for their failure is that the Inner Sphere refuses to fight to the Clans' rules, and actually takes advantage of the Clans' adherence to their code. Example: Clans traditionally begin battles with a challenge that states how many troops their committing to the assault, and asks the enemy what they're preparing to defend with (this actually makes sense for inter-Clan warfare; they're short on resources, so they want to keep battles small so as to minimize casualties and collateral damage). The Inner Sphere, of course, would lie. Later averted by most Clanners, who simply come to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't want to fight by the rules shouldn't be protected by them.

* Subverted in ''{{Warhammer 40000}}'', where this is practically the catchphrase of the Space Marines and the Imperium as a whole. Seems to be played straight at first glance, until you realize that the trope's basic description falls on the [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism idealistic side of things]], and ''is'' being played straight according to the Imperium... in a setting that runs on BlackAndGreyMorality.

* The still-really-popular Marvel Superheroes RPG had this as a ''game mechanic''. You couldn't use MindControl ''in any circumstance'' without losing Karma unless you were a villain. If it comes down to mind controlling the villain to take apart his [[LooneyTunes Aludium Q36]] [[EarthShatteringKaboom Planet Exploder]] versus permitting him to destroy the world, you'll take a [[KarmaMeter Karma ding]] because you couldn't [[TalkingTheMonsterToDeath talk the monster to death.]] The power of Hypnotic Speech from one of the expansions leaves you ''literally'' no way out.

* The not-overly-great Marvel Superheroes RPG had this as a ''game mechanic''. You couldn't use MindControl ''in any circumstance'' without losing Karma unless you were a villain. If it comes down to mind controlling the villain to take apart his [[LooneyTunes Aludium Q36]] [[EarthShatteringKaboom Planet Exploder]] versus permitting him to destroy the world, you'll take a [[KarmaMeter Karma ding]] because you couldn't [[TalkingTheMonsterToDeath talk the monster to death.]] The power of Hypnotic Speech from one of the expansions leaves you ''literally'' no way out.

* One of the three Renown categories from ''WerewolftheApocalypse'' is honour, which is often assiocated with the law-keeper Philodox and 'just' deeds.

* The godess Rondra and her church of the pen & paper RPG ''The Dark Eye'' are a fine example of this trope: Over the course of time Rondra [[{{Flanderization}} degenerated]] from a godess of war into a godess of honor, going so far as to deem battles between armies and the art of war (strategy and tactics, that is) as "necessary evils" and only approving of one-on-one combats, which meet [[LetsFightLikeGentlemen certain standards of honorable behavior]]. This development hasn't been without consequences in the game world itself: it has been mentioned, that army officiers tend to worship Hesinde (a godess of knowledge) or Phex (a trickster god of luck and wits) instead of Rondra. Not to mention Kor, a merciless god of bloodshed and mercenaries, who has a considerable amount of [[HeroicSociopath followers among]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism desillusioned]] [[AntiHero warriors]]. And it seems as if yet another god prepares to compete with Rondra and take over her old domain: Nandus, a god of reason, whose followers unsurpisingly prefer [[TheCombatPragmatist reason over honor]].

* Dwarves in Warhammer Fantasy are this trope's posterboys. If they have some great dishonor that befalls them, sometimtes as minor as a not keeping a promis or a yougn dwarf being turned down by the girl they fancy, to something as major as kinslaying or failing to stop an asult on astronghold, they loose the will to live. However Dwarves physicaly and psycologicaly find it imposible to commit suicide, so they become slayers and go fight the biggast baddest thing they can find until they find one that can kill them (they never fight to loose either).

* In {{Traveller}} there are several variations of this for different cultures. The ''Fteirle'' code of the Aslan is highly developed as befits a ProudWarriorRace.