History HonorBeforeReason / TableTopGames

20th Feb '16 12:33:27 PM angelothewizard
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** The trope could be called "Virtue before Reason" in Scion's case, as even the ones that have almost nothing to do with honor (for example, Expression, which is all about creating art of all kinds) will still demand you follow them even when NOT following them is more prudent. This is even the case of the Dark Virtues that the Titans and their spawn use-for example, passing up an opportunity to torment a Scion or even attempting to invoke WhyDontYouJustShootHim requires a failed Malice roll. That's right-Titanspawn would rather engage in BondVillainStupidity instead of killing you right then and there. At least the game mechanics give a reason for it.
8th Dec '15 1:05:37 PM Chabal2
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** One race encountered prior to the Heresy had abandoned all-out warfare in favor of battles in specialized arenas. When the Imperium dropped by, they found the aliens armored up, weapons in hand... aligned neatly in the arenas and looking up at the ships in orbit waiting for the humans to land and fight them. [[DeathFromAbove They didn't last long.]]
30th Apr '15 9:49:30 AM nombretomado
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** This is a major problem in the GotrekAndFelix series; a Slayer's shame will not be relieved until death, but Gotrek seems to be completely unbeatable. Another is that the shame must be foremost on their mind when they die to relieve it, and Snorri, another slayer, has taken a ''lot'' of blows to the head over his career as a slayer and can't remember what it was.

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** This is a major problem in the GotrekAndFelix Literature/GotrekAndFelix series; a Slayer's shame will not be relieved until death, but Gotrek seems to be completely unbeatable. Another is that the shame must be foremost on their mind when they die to relieve it, and Snorri, another slayer, has taken a ''lot'' of blows to the head over his career as a slayer and can't remember what it was.
30th Jan '15 8:31:58 AM tytoman
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* ''[[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2111664817/vow-of-honor-rpg?ref=nav_search Vow of Honor]]'' is built around this trope. You play as discount paladins who gain and lose power depending on how well they uphold [[TheOrder Fasaan]]'s tenets. Depending on the GM's whims, staying honourable may be a minor inconvenience or hair-pullingly frustrating. (One way to violate the Righteousness vow is to be ''be emotionally affected'' by "times of tribulation.") To top it all off, the game is specifically designed to encourage philosophical conflicts between players.

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* ''[[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2111664817/vow-of-honor-rpg?ref=nav_search Vow of Honor]]'' is built around this trope. You play as discount paladins who gain and lose power depending on how well they uphold [[TheOrder Fasaan]]'s tenets. Depending on the GM's whims, staying honourable may be a minor inconvenience or hair-pullingly frustrating. (One way to violate the Righteousness vow is to be ''be emotionally affected'' by "times of tribulation.") To top it all off, the game is specifically designed to encourage philosophical conflicts between players.players.
* ''{{Magic The Gathering}}'s'' Bant setting is so honor-bound that several knights wear ''backless'' suits of armor. This works due to the plane's color alighnment: White mana (law and order) dominates the plane, while Red (mindless destruction) and Black (corruption, selfishness) are absent. Sadly, it proves a bit less effective when those colors return.
25th Jan '15 3:32:03 AM ragnarok235
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** Bretonnia is pretty big on this as well. Advanced weaponry that'd give them an advantage over [[TheUsualAdversaries Beastmen]], such as guns and crossbows, are outright spurned. The Bretonnians get away with it through [[ImmuneToBullets magical]] PlotArmour and [[{{Determinator}} sheer balls]].
17th Nov '14 7:51:55 PM Argon2
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* In ''TabletopGame/BloodBowl'', the Bright Crusaders and the Heroes of Justice are the only teams who categorically refuse to cheat in any way. The problem is, [[CrapsackWorld naturally]], they're the only people who have this compunction - in fact, for the Goblin team, cheating is their ''entire strategy''. And naturally, for these teams, FailureIsTheOnlyOption.

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* In ''TabletopGame/BloodBowl'', the Bright Crusaders and the Heroes of Justice are the only teams who categorically refuse to cheat in any way. The problem is, [[CrapsackWorld naturally]], they're the only people who have this compunction - in fact, for the Goblin team, cheating is their ''entire strategy''. And naturally, for these teams, FailureIsTheOnlyOption.FailureIsTheOnlyOption.
* ''[[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2111664817/vow-of-honor-rpg?ref=nav_search Vow of Honor]]'' is built around this trope. You play as discount paladins who gain and lose power depending on how well they uphold [[TheOrder Fasaan]]'s tenets. Depending on the GM's whims, staying honourable may be a minor inconvenience or hair-pullingly frustrating. (One way to violate the Righteousness vow is to be ''be emotionally affected'' by "times of tribulation.") To top it all off, the game is specifically designed to encourage philosophical conflicts between players.
19th Sep '14 6:34:48 PM Therapsid
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** Prior to the introduction of the Clans, this was the hat of the Draconis Combine, which as a faction embrace a romanticized version of samurai honor. Probably the best example of it is this: if someone ordered a retreat, even if his unit was being overwhelmed by enemy forces and was in danger of being completely wiped out, he was expected to commit sepuku. Prior to the Clan invasion, the Draconis Combine's military took a very dim view of retreating from a fight regardless of the situation and placed a high expectation that you would try to fight individual duels with enemies instead of using group tactics. After the Clans invaded, the Combine was forced into adopting more [[CombatPragmatist pragmatic]] means of fighting since their traditional methods proved to be far less effective against the Clans' superior technology.
29th Aug '14 5:25:06 PM TekMek63
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* The Clans from ''TabletopGame/{{Battletech}}'' suffer from this when they invade the Inner Sphere. One of the biggest reason for their failure is that the Inner Sphere refuses to fight to the Clans' rules, and actually takes advantage of the Clans' adherence to their code. Example: Clans traditionally begin battles with a challenge that states how many troops they are committing to the assault, and asks the enemy what they're preparing to defend with (this actually makes sense for inter-Clan warfare; they're short on resources, so they want to keep battles small so as to minimize casualties and collateral damage). The Inner Sphere, of course, would lie. Later averted by most Clanners, who simply come to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't want to fight by the rules shouldn't be protected by them.

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* The Clans from ''TabletopGame/{{Battletech}}'' suffer from this when they invade the Inner Sphere. One of the biggest reason reasons for their failure is that the Inner Sphere refuses to fight to the Clans' rules, and actually takes advantage of the Clans' adherence to their code. Example: Clans traditionally begin battles with a challenge that states how many troops they are committing to the assault, and asks the enemy what they're preparing to defend with (this actually makes sense for inter-Clan warfare; they're short on resources, so they want to keep battles small so as to minimize casualties and collateral damage). The Inner Sphere, of course, would lie. Later averted by most Clanners, who simply come to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't want to fight by the rules shouldn't be protected by them.
9th Aug '14 5:58:46 PM RUSirius
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** Additionally, the optional Merits and Flaws system gives "Code of Honor" as a Flaw; its value varies depending on how much it restricts your actions.
29th Jul '14 7:32:56 PM TekMek63
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** Another reason for their failure lays in the fact that they must quantify their honor. For the Clans honor is not an abstract concept; they were created by a ProudWarriorRaceGuy. When preparing for combat they will enter into bidding rounds and the lowest bidder will have the honor of proving that they bid exacly the right ammount of troops needed to win the battle. Clans defy reason when their commanders will willingly bid lower than the minimum number of troops needed to win the combat, and that according to Clan estimates!

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** Another reason for their failure lays in the fact that they must quantify their honor. For the Clans honor is not an abstract concept; they were created by a ProudWarriorRaceGuy. When preparing for combat they will enter into bidding rounds and the lowest bidder will have the honor of proving that they bid exacly exactly the right ammount amount of troops needed to win the battle. Clans defy reason when their commanders will willingly bid lower than the minimum number of troops needed to win the combat, and that according to Clan estimates!
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