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*** Setting big forest fires is not easy, unless conditions are exactly right. Given the technology available, it is likely impossible. (For a real life example, consider the attempt by the Japanese to set fire to the forests in US Northwest via thousands of balloon incendiary bombs in 1944 and 45. None of them set any meaningful fire--that the forests are, in fact, a temperate rainforest probably didn't help. Perhaps the forests where Beastmen reside are also rainforests of some kind?)
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** [[GenreBlind You're actually SURPRISED that]] [[UltimateEvil the Gods of Chaos]] [[DealWithTheDevil screw over their worshipers?]]
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** [[GenreBlind You're actually SURPRISED that]] [[UltimateEvil the Gods of Chaos]] Chaos [[DealWithTheDevil screw over their worshipers?]]
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** There are several Watsonian explanations. There are many nobles that would oppose such a suggestion and the Phoenix King can't decide over all the kingdoms in that way. In a novel, one of the elves in an elven embassy remarks disdainfully on the humans' tendency to have 'unguarded rutting' indicating that the High elves practice contraception, presumably on a large level which, given that the High Elves have a fertility and healing Goddess who is both very much real and very good at protecting them from venereal diseases (presumably) the Elves likely practice contraception for no better reason then convenience. It may not be contraception. Maybe they're just prudes. Anyway, yeah, other gods ''exist'', but they're not available on a hotline, so they can't be relied on all the time. So if they ''do'' use contraception, there's a logical reason for it. In addition it's likely that Isha supports the Wood Elves rather than the High Elves since her avatar Ariel lives with the Wood Elves.
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** There are several Watsonian explanations. There are many nobles that would oppose such a suggestion and the Phoenix King can't decide over all the kingdoms in that way. In a novel, one of the elves in an elven embassy remarks disdainfully on the humans' tendency to have 'unguarded rutting' indicating that the High elves practice contraception, presumably on a large level which, given that the High Elves have a fertility and healing Goddess who is both very much real and very good at protecting them from venereal diseases (presumably) the Elves likely practice contraception for no better reason then than convenience. It may not be contraception. Maybe they're just prudes. Anyway, yeah, other gods ''exist'', but they're not available on a hotline, so they can't be relied on all the time. So if they ''do'' use contraception, there's a logical reason for it. In addition it's likely that Isha supports the Wood Elves rather than the High Elves since her avatar Ariel lives with the Wood Elves.
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Changed line(s) 71 (click to see context) from:
* When Malekith entered the Flame of Asuryan, only two people had ever done so before: his father Aenarion, who had been badly burned and practically killed by the experience before Asuryan blessed him, restoring him to full health and then some; and Bel-Shanaar, who was magically protected from the more destructive aspects of the Flame of Asuryan. How couldn't he have known that if the manner of his entry into the Flame of Asuryan more closely resembled that of Aenarion than of Bel-Shanaar, he would be as badly burned as Aenarion had been?
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* When Malekith entered the Flame of Asuryan, only two people had ever done so before: his father Aenarion, who had been badly burned and practically killed by the experience before Asuryan blessed him, restoring him to full health and then some; and Bel-Shanaar, who was magically protected from the more destructive aspects of the Flame of Asuryan. How couldn't he have known that if the manner of his entry into the Flame of Asuryan more closely resembled that of Aenarion than of Bel-Shanaar, he would be as badly burned as Aenarion had been?been?
** Because Malekith is an incredibly arrogant elf. He assumed that the Gods would instantly welcome him the very moment he stepped inside, and the second he felt any pain or discomfort his deranged mind took it as a rejection by the Gods.
** Because Malekith is an incredibly arrogant elf. He assumed that the Gods would instantly welcome him the very moment he stepped inside, and the second he felt any pain or discomfort his deranged mind took it as a rejection by the Gods.
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Could HAVE, not could of.
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*** He didnt say the first incursion was weak, he said that following the Elves creating their vortex Chaos was weakened, with any attempted incursion before the fall of the Dwarfs and Elven Empires being weak. Which they were, following the creation of the vortex Chaos Daemons lost a lot of the magic that sustained them in the world and Chaos did not yet have the Hordes of the North they do now. The Elves and Dwarfs at the height of their power could of stopped them, but following the war of the beard, the destruction of the Dwarfs holds and the rise of Men? Not so much. They now have a huge force of worshippers who don't need any magic to support them, who are in fact feeding the Gods directly with every battle, enough magic has made its way into the world to give rise to the Beastmen and the Elves who stopped them the first time can't really repeat that trick.
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*** He didnt say the first incursion was weak, he said that following the Elves creating their vortex Chaos was weakened, with any attempted incursion before the fall of the Dwarfs and Elven Empires being weak. Which they were, following the creation of the vortex Chaos Daemons lost a lot of the magic that sustained them in the world and Chaos did not yet have the Hordes of the North they do now. The Elves and Dwarfs at the height of their power could of have stopped them, but following the war of the beard, the destruction of the Dwarfs holds and the rise of Men? Not so much. They now have a huge force of worshippers who don't need any magic to support them, who are in fact feeding the Gods directly with every battle, enough magic has made its way into the world to give rise to the Beastmen and the Elves who stopped them the first time can't really repeat that trick.
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*** It also assumes that Elves reproduce in a similar manner, and at a similar rate, as humans. They may be less fertile, gestation may be far longer, carrying children to term may be harder, giving birth may be more dangerous, etc. It would be in keeping with their supposed superiority if they looked on the brief lives and high birth rates of humans as comparable to how we look at rats or other pests, whose numbers can explode in a relatively short time.
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** Much like real-world middle ages, the peasants are too oppressed (help, help!) to revolt. They're too downtrodden, too disorganised, and also earnestly believe that their lords have a god-given right to rule over them. Then when they do revolt (as happens reasonably frequently in the fluff) [[RealityEnsues it ends up going the way you think it would]] [[CurbStompBattle when starving, mud-born, uneducated people with knowledge of farming and no available military equipment take on well-fed, experienced, well-equipped knights]].
** Bretonia is the middle ages flanderized, its a mixture between two older editions of bretonnia one where it was a corrupted nightmare state much worse then it is now and one where it was straight up Arthurian Magnificence. Its not a true reflection on the real life middle ages were peasents, while poor and sometimes oppressed, actually had more holidays a year and paid less tax in percentage as well as in absolute terms then a modern salaryman does and as a result, had alot more individual freedom within their villages.
** Bretonia is the middle ages flanderized, its a mixture between two older editions of bretonnia one where it was a corrupted nightmare state much worse then it is now and one where it was straight up Arthurian Magnificence. Its not a true reflection on the real life middle ages were peasents, while poor and sometimes oppressed, actually had more holidays a year and paid less tax in percentage as well as in absolute terms then a modern salaryman does and as a result, had alot more individual freedom within their villages.
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** Much like real-world middle ages, the peasants are too oppressed (help, help!) to revolt. They're too downtrodden, too disorganised, and also earnestly believe that their lords have a god-given right to rule over them. Then when they do revolt (as happens reasonably frequently in the fluff) [[RealityEnsues [[SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome it ends up going the way you think it would]] [[CurbStompBattle when starving, mud-born, uneducated people with knowledge of farming and no available military equipment take on well-fed, experienced, well-equipped knights]].
** Bretonia is the middle ages flanderized, its a mixture between two older editions of bretonnia one where it was a corrupted nightmare state much worse then it is now and one where it was straight up Arthurian Magnificence. Its not a true reflection on the real life middle ages were peasents, while poor and sometimes oppressed, actually had more holidays a year and paid less tax in percentage as well as in absolute terms then a modern salaryman does and as a result, hadalot a lot more individual freedom within their villages.
** Bretonia is the middle ages flanderized, its a mixture between two older editions of bretonnia one where it was a corrupted nightmare state much worse then it is now and one where it was straight up Arthurian Magnificence. Its not a true reflection on the real life middle ages were peasents, while poor and sometimes oppressed, actually had more holidays a year and paid less tax in percentage as well as in absolute terms then a modern salaryman does and as a result, had
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To put on amends a misinformation made by one of the facts.
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*** Estalia, which is based on real life Spain, non-white?? I want to slap you either with a History book or a Geography book, whichever is thicker.
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* So why does ''Chaos'' want to destroy the world? For that matter, why do the chaos gods show such obvious, long term favoritism? It would seem more chaotic to keep the world preserved but not let any single force get too much of an advantage to keep change on it less predictable, more chaotic. In fact, no form of "worship" the receive, be it make sure someone is always bleeding, be as hedonistic as possible, spread lots of pathogens or mutate constantly are conductive to destroying the the world. Miserable existences but theoretically sustainable ones.
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* So why does ''Chaos'' want to destroy the world? For that matter, why do the chaos gods show such obvious, long term favoritism? It would seem more chaotic to keep the world preserved but not let any single force get too much of an advantage to keep change on it less predictable, more chaotic. In fact, no form of "worship" the receive, be it make sure someone is always bleeding, be as hedonistic as possible, spread lots of pathogens or mutate constantly are conductive to destroying the the world. Miserable existences but theoretically sustainable ones.
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*** Not just Beastmen live in the forest. There's also tribes of Orcs and Goblins, Wood Elf warbands and Necromancers/Vampires living the the forests, who would gain cause to fight the Empire for the same reason as the Beastmen. There's also many monsters such as the house-sized Arachnarok spiders who would be displaced and pass through settlements.
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*** Not just Beastmen live in the forest. There's also tribes of Orcs and Goblins, Wood Elf warbands and Necromancers/Vampires living the the forests, who would gain cause to fight the Empire for the same reason as the Beastmen. There's also many monsters such as the house-sized Arachnarok spiders who would be displaced and pass through settlements.
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* Did the Chaos gods always feed on emotion in Fantasy, or is that bleed over from 40k? I can remember there being some stuff about them being primordial and such, but I don't have access to the older editions now and it's been a while.
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* Did the Chaos gods always feed on emotion in Fantasy, or is that bleed over from 40k? I can remember there being some stuff about them being primordial and such, but I don't have access to the older editions now and it's been a while.while.
* When Malekith entered the Flame of Asuryan, only two people had ever done so before: his father Aenarion, who had been badly burned and practically killed by the experience before Asuryan blessed him, restoring him to full health and then some; and Bel-Shanaar, who was magically protected from the more destructive aspects of the Flame of Asuryan. How couldn't he have known that if the manner of his entry into the Flame of Asuryan more closely resembled that of Aenarion than of Bel-Shanaar, he would be as badly burned as Aenarion had been?
* When Malekith entered the Flame of Asuryan, only two people had ever done so before: his father Aenarion, who had been badly burned and practically killed by the experience before Asuryan blessed him, restoring him to full health and then some; and Bel-Shanaar, who was magically protected from the more destructive aspects of the Flame of Asuryan. How couldn't he have known that if the manner of his entry into the Flame of Asuryan more closely resembled that of Aenarion than of Bel-Shanaar, he would be as badly burned as Aenarion had been?
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** Because people are hypocritical jerks who arbitrarily write off whole classifications of people from their positive philosophies, even when those philosophies do not support such, ''especially'' in a CrapsackWorld like this setting. The modern idea of chivalry goes back to the 1200s, but lets be honest here, even though it officially applied to peasants as well as the nobility very few knights actually practiced what they preached.
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* Is it ever explained how the orcs reproduce? I mean we know how the [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 orks]] make more of themselves (spores) but we never hear of greenskin females and these orcs don't seem like the rapey type. On a similar subject does anyone mention ogre women because we hear about ogre children on several occasions?
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* Is it ever explained how the orcs reproduce? I mean we know how the [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 orks]] make more of themselves (spores) but we never hear of greenskin females and these orcs don't seem like the rapey type. On a similar subject does anyone mention ogre women because we hear about ogre children on several occasions?occasions?
* Did the Chaos gods always feed on emotion in Fantasy, or is that bleed over from 40k? I can remember there being some stuff about them being primordial and such, but I don't have access to the older editions now and it's been a while.
* Did the Chaos gods always feed on emotion in Fantasy, or is that bleed over from 40k? I can remember there being some stuff about them being primordial and such, but I don't have access to the older editions now and it's been a while.
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Completely superfluous to discussion
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*** Nah, the Empire has witchhunting down pat. They're even pretty sure what their main weapons are - instilling fear and burning people.
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*** Nah, the Empire has witchhunting down pat. They're even pretty sure what their main weapons are - instilling fear and burning people.
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*** NOBODY expects the Empire Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Grand Theogonist..... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise... I'll come in again.
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*** Perhaps Nagash or Archaon can become the Incarnation of Chaos Undivided and save existence from this vicious cycle, but ı am not betting on it.
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*** Perhaps Nagash or Archaon can become the Incarnation of Chaos Undivided and save existence from this vicious cycle, but ı am not betting on it.it.
* Is it ever explained how the orcs reproduce? I mean we know how the [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 orks]] make more of themselves (spores) but we never hear of greenskin females and these orcs don't seem like the rapey type. On a similar subject does anyone mention ogre women because we hear about ogre children on several occasions?
* Is it ever explained how the orcs reproduce? I mean we know how the [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 orks]] make more of themselves (spores) but we never hear of greenskin females and these orcs don't seem like the rapey type. On a similar subject does anyone mention ogre women because we hear about ogre children on several occasions?
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Changed line(s) 65 (click to see context) from:
** Chaos Gods are conceptions created and made real by the psyche of living. Khorne is honor. Tzeentch is hope. Nurgle is acceptance. Slaanesh is love. These are their basest forms. When they destroyed the world, they returned back to their base forms, and purged themselves of their own corruption. Homever, they couldn't exist without life itself, so they kept some of the living alive. Then, life started to multiply once more in the realms and their rampant emotions in the end caused them to turn back to their malicious selves, driving them to destroy the living. This troper believes that they destroyed the world once, and Old Ones were the survivors of that world. Then they decided to try to neutralize Chaos, while creating new races to fix the damn world. They failed. Then the Warhammer world happened. Same shit. Suddenly Age of Sigmar, with new gods, former mortals who were the survivors of the World-That-Was roaming around with the power to rival the Old Ones, who try to neutralize Chaos. Sounds familliar? Good, this means you were paying attention, and it also means you can guess what is going to happen. And it is going to happen. Forever.
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** Chaos Gods are conceptions created and made real by the psyche of living. Khorne is honor. Tzeentch is hope. Nurgle is acceptance. Slaanesh is love. These are their basest forms. When they destroyed the world, they returned back to their base forms, and purged themselves of their own corruption. Homever, they couldn't exist without life itself, so they kept some of the living alive. Then, life started to multiply once more in the realms and their rampant emotions in the end caused them the gods to turn back to their malicious selves, driving them to destroy the living. This troper believes that they destroyed the world once, and Old Ones were the survivors of that world. Then they decided to try to neutralize Chaos, while creating new races to fix the damn world. They failed. Then the Warhammer world happened. Same shit. Suddenly Age of Sigmar, with new gods, former mortals who were the survivors of the World-That-Was roaming around with the power to rival the Old Ones, who try to neutralize Chaos. Sounds familliar? Good, this means you were paying attention, and it also means you can guess what is going to happen. And it is going to happen. Forever.
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Changed line(s) 65,66 (click to see context) from:
** Chaos Gods are conceptions created and made real by the psyche of living. Khorne is honor. Tzeentch is hope. Nurgle is acceptance. Slaanesh is love. These are their basest forms. When they destroyed the world, they returned back to their base forms, and purged themselves of their own corruption. Homever, they couldn't exist without life itself, so they kept some of the living alive. Then, life started to multiply once more in the realms and their rampant emotions this caused them to turn back to their malicious selves. This troper believes that they destroyed the world once, and Old Ones were the survivors of that world. Then they decided to try to neutralize Chaos, while creating new races to fix the damn world. They failed. Then the Warhammer world happened. Same shit. Suddenly Age of Sigmar, with new gods, former mortals who were the survivors of the World-That-Was roaming around with the power to rival the Old Ones, who try to neutralize Chaos. Sounds familliar? Good, this means you were paying attention, and it also means you can guess what is going to happen. And it is going to happen. Forever.
*** Perhaps Nagash or Archaon can become the Incarnation of Chaos Undivided and saving existence from this vicious cycle, but ı am not betting on it.
*** Perhaps Nagash or Archaon can become the Incarnation of Chaos Undivided and saving existence from this vicious cycle, but ı am not betting on it.
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** Chaos Gods are conceptions created and made real by the psyche of living. Khorne is honor. Tzeentch is hope. Nurgle is acceptance. Slaanesh is love. These are their basest forms. When they destroyed the world, they returned back to their base forms, and purged themselves of their own corruption. Homever, they couldn't exist without life itself, so they kept some of the living alive. Then, life started to multiply once more in the realms and their rampant emotions this in the end caused them to turn back to their malicious selves.selves, driving them to destroy the living. This troper believes that they destroyed the world once, and Old Ones were the survivors of that world. Then they decided to try to neutralize Chaos, while creating new races to fix the damn world. They failed. Then the Warhammer world happened. Same shit. Suddenly Age of Sigmar, with new gods, former mortals who were the survivors of the World-That-Was roaming around with the power to rival the Old Ones, who try to neutralize Chaos. Sounds familliar? Good, this means you were paying attention, and it also means you can guess what is going to happen. And it is going to happen. Forever.
*** Perhaps Nagash or Archaon can become the Incarnation of Chaos Undivided andsaving save existence from this vicious cycle, but ı am not betting on it.
*** Perhaps Nagash or Archaon can become the Incarnation of Chaos Undivided and
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Changed line(s) 65 (click to see context) from:
** Chaos Gods are conceptions created and made real by the psyche of living. Khorne is honor. Tzeentch is hope. Nurgle is acceptance. Slaanesh is love. These are their basest forms. When they destroyed the world, they returned back to their base forms, and purged themselves of their own corruption. Homever, they couldn't exist without life itself, so they kept some of the living alive. Then, life started to multiply once more in the realms and their rampant emotions this caused them to turn back to their malicious selves. This troper believes that they destroyed the world once, and Old Ones were the survivors of that world. Then they decided to try to neutralize Chaos, while creating new races to fix the damn world. They failed. Then the Warhammer world happened. Same shit. Suddenly Age of Sigmar, with [ew gods, former mortals who were the survivors of the World-That-Was roaming around with the power to rival the Old Ones, who try to neutralize Chaos. Sounds familliar? Good, this means you were paying attention, and it also means you can guess what is going to happen. And it is going to happen. Forever.
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** Chaos Gods are conceptions created and made real by the psyche of living. Khorne is honor. Tzeentch is hope. Nurgle is acceptance. Slaanesh is love. These are their basest forms. When they destroyed the world, they returned back to their base forms, and purged themselves of their own corruption. Homever, they couldn't exist without life itself, so they kept some of the living alive. Then, life started to multiply once more in the realms and their rampant emotions this caused them to turn back to their malicious selves. This troper believes that they destroyed the world once, and Old Ones were the survivors of that world. Then they decided to try to neutralize Chaos, while creating new races to fix the damn world. They failed. Then the Warhammer world happened. Same shit. Suddenly Age of Sigmar, with [ew new gods, former mortals who were the survivors of the World-That-Was roaming around with the power to rival the Old Ones, who try to neutralize Chaos. Sounds familliar? Good, this means you were paying attention, and it also means you can guess what is going to happen. And it is going to happen. Forever.
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Changed line(s) 65 (click to see context) from:
** Chaos Gods are conceptions created and made real by the psyche of living. Khorne is honor. Tzeentch is hope. Nurgle is acceptance. Slaanesh is love. These are their basest forms. When they destroyed the world, they returned back to their base forms, and purged themselves of their own corruption. Homever, they couldn't exist without life itself, so they kept some of the living alive. Then, life started to multiply once more in the realms and their rampant emotions this caused them to turn back to their malicious selves. This troper believes that they destroyed the world once, and Old Ones were the survivors of that world. Then they decided to try to neutralize Chaos, while creating new races to fix the damn world. They failed. Then the Warhammer world happened. Same shit. Suddenly Age of Sigmar, with [[PsychialGods]] who were the survivors of the World-That-Was roaming around with the power to rival the Old Ones, who try to neutralize Chaos. Sounds familliar? Good, this means you were paying attention, and it also means you can guess what is going to happen. And it is going to happen. Forever.
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** Chaos Gods are conceptions created and made real by the psyche of living. Khorne is honor. Tzeentch is hope. Nurgle is acceptance. Slaanesh is love. These are their basest forms. When they destroyed the world, they returned back to their base forms, and purged themselves of their own corruption. Homever, they couldn't exist without life itself, so they kept some of the living alive. Then, life started to multiply once more in the realms and their rampant emotions this caused them to turn back to their malicious selves. This troper believes that they destroyed the world once, and Old Ones were the survivors of that world. Then they decided to try to neutralize Chaos, while creating new races to fix the damn world. They failed. Then the Warhammer world happened. Same shit. Suddenly Age of Sigmar, with [[PsychialGods]] [ew gods, former mortals who were the survivors of the World-That-Was roaming around with the power to rival the Old Ones, who try to neutralize Chaos. Sounds familliar? Good, this means you were paying attention, and it also means you can guess what is going to happen. And it is going to happen. Forever.
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Changed line(s) 65 (click to see context) from:
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***Perhaps Nagash or Archaon can become the Incarnation of Chaos Undivided and saving existence from this vicious cycle, but ı am not betting on it.
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** The current Emperor is the Count of Reikland, and bears its Runefang, but that doesn't change the fact that Reikland is simply a province.
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* So why does ''Chaos'' want to destroy the world? For that matter, why do the chaos gods show such obvious, long term favoritism? It would seem more chaotic to keep the world preserved but not let any single force get too much of an advantage to keep change on it less predictable, more chaotic. In fact, no form of "worship" the receive, be it make sure someone is always bleeding, be as hedonistic as possible, spread lots of pathogens or mutate constantly are conductive to destroying the the world. Miserable existences but theoretically sustainable ones.
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** Now The End Times series been published its safe to say SoC and NC are both now non-canon with ET replacing them (although I believe there are a few novels that were published years ago set after SoC that specifically reference it, so it's plausable that canonically SoC exists in an alternate timeline).
