History Headscratchers / UminekoNoNakuKoroNi

*** Keep in mind these aren't Ryukishi's views or words, but those of the characters. And Japan in 1986 with classical Western influences...pretty much gets you exactly this.

* [[spoiler: The entire Yasu multiple personality deal confuses me completely. How can Shannon possibly disguise herself as Kanon with [[GagBoobs breasts THAT big?]] And how can she and Beatrice be one and the same and yet two separate entities at the same time?]]

* [[spoiler: The entire Yasu multiple personality deal confuses me completely. How can Shannon possibly disguise herself as Kanon with [[GagBoobs breasts [i]that[/i] big?]] And how can she and Beatrice be one and the same and yet two separate entities at the same time?]]

* [[spoiler The entire Yasu multiple personality deal confuses me completely. How can Shannon possibly disguise herself as Kanon with [[GagBoobs breasts [i]that[/i] big?]] And how can she and Beatrice be one and the same and yet two separate entities at the same time?]]

* [[spoiler]]The entire Yasu multiple personality deal confuses me completely. How can Shannon possibly disguise herself as Kanon with [[GagBoobs breasts [i]that[/i] big?]] And how can she and Beatrice be one and the same and yet two separate entities at the same time?[[/spoiler]]

* [spoiler]The entire Yasu multiple personality deal confuses me completely. How can Shannon possibly disguise herself as Kanon with [[GagBoobs breasts [i]that[/i] big?]] And how can she and Beatrice be one and the same and yet two separate entities at the same time?[/spoiler]

*** Not neccasarilly, [[HigurashiNoNakuKoroNi Rena]] actually has an average bust-size for a girl, not [[ACupAngst Rika-flat]] or [[BoobsOfSteel Shmion-huge]], which was actually [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] once in the manga.

* I love When they Cry, and especially Umineko - as a huge fan of magical realism [[OrIsIt (possibly)]] and detective works alike, it's rich characters, intriguing mysteries and convoluted plotlines are a pleasure to read. However - and this is something that bothers me with a lot of Anime/Manga, but especially in Umineko - there's some dialogue that literally makes me grit my teeth when I read it. It's hard not to be incensed at Eva's backstory - and then wonder why every character makes references such as [[ValuesDissonance 'Truly, you can never understand a woman's heart' 'a woman's motivation' 'it was just like a woman' 'ah, women get this way at a certain age']] [[DoubleStandard 'did you know, all men must feel like this?']] [[AllMenArePerverts 'both Rudolf and Hideyoshi, who appreciated women' - all of Battler's wacky boob-grabbing shenanigans.]]

** Going by the games, it seems heavily implied that Maria does have some sort of pervasive developmental disorder (Rosa implies that she has a lot of developmental delays, and one of the things that tends to set Rosa off on Maria is when somebody asks how old she is -- which she seems to interpret as "are you ''sure'' she's nine?"). {{Fanon}}'s pinned her as AmbiguouslyAutistic, although WordOfGod is mum on the subject as far as I know.

** Even though I don't know which {{Ass Pull}}s are you talking about, there is an universal answer to most complaints: [[AdaptationDecay the Anime]] was released at a very bad time. When it was released, only the question novels were written, so nobody knew what the answer, [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment because '''the Anime was released before the novels reached the answers''']]. Plus, during the release of the Anime, the fifth novel was written, and it has a couple of lines of text that change the meaning of the other novels. In other words, this story can't pay you off, because it is still being written.

*** Did you miss the part where Maria was best friends with Beatrice? Someone is atleast playing the character for Maria; anyway, that knowledge isn't at all difficult to get ahold of, and Maria is fascinated and obsessed enough to study on her own, so there's no necessity for someone to teach her, per se.

* A lot of theories are discussed in the WMG using the Knox Decalogue, I discovered TvTropes not so long ago so I wanted to know, how did you guys managed to discuss theories before episode 5 and the introduction of Knox Decalogue in Umineko?I know that Know decalogue is a real life thing btw.Wasn't the WMG really messy back then?
** Not really. Or atleast not any more messy as it is now. Besides, there's no evidence that Beatrice's Gameboard actually follows the Knox Decalogue. Infact, I'm personally pretty certain that it doesn't.

** Even though I don't know which {{Ass Pull}}s are you talking about, there is an universal answer to most complaints: [[AdaptationDecay the Anime]] was released at a very bad time. When it was released, only the question novels were written, so nobody knew what the answer, [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment because]] the Anime was released before the novels reached the answers.''' Plus, during the release of the Anime, the fifth novel was written, and it has a couple of lines of text that change the meaning of the other novels. In other words, this story can't pay you off, because it is still being written.

** Because we don't know it. EVA-Beatrice, atleast, insists on being called just "Beatrice", hiding her true name when she can get away with it. Same for Beato.

* Without having read the manga, played the games, etc, only watched the anime, I'masking here. Is Maria...Developmentally challenged, shall we say? Nine is a little old to still have imaginary friends, be so childish, and suchlike. I mean, she has excuses for it if she isn't, but... Also, is it just me, or was Rosa ''extremely'' bipolar in the first and second Mysteries? In the third she seemed to genuinely care for Maria, and in the fourth, she was a ''complete'' psycho hose beast who deserved everything she got. Given these apparent differences before they got to the island, I'm thinking this isn't different versions of the mystery, but whole different worlds, with possibly changed backstories, much like what Rika was going through in Higurashi. This is all probably page 1 stuff from the non-anime stuff, but like I said...

** As far as episode 4 scenes go. Keep in mind Maria was sleeping at that time, and after MARIA was "done", Maria woke up. So that was probably just a dream. However an important scene (as far as their relationship goes) that was cut before Rosa smashed one of Maria's little rabbit figurines, sows that Maria had been taking the dolls to school and playing with them in class. The teacher confronted Rosa and Rosa defended (probably forcefully) Maria saying she wouldnt do that. Turns out she was completely wrong so she punished Maria. Also some new information about Maria's father explains Rosa's treatment of Maria

* How was [[color:red:Natsuhi is not the culprit,]] a violation of Knox's second. If it had been accepted Battler and Erika would have "proven" that only a witch could have committed the first twilight murders. Which is the exact opposite of what the detective is suppose to do. And thus it wasn't using supernatural means as a detective, but using supernatural means as an anti-detective.
** It is still a violation of Knox's second, though. Also, Battler was not trying to be anti-detective, just anti-Erika. He still wanted to prove there were no witch, but also wanted to prove it was not Natsuhi.

*** It's mostly because Umineko's AdaptationDecay is seen as being much worse than Higurashi's, and ontop of that, Higurashi isn't nearly as anally sensitive about every little word and scene in the way Umineko is. The mystery can be solved by anime-only viewers in Higurashi. The same can't be said of Umineko.

* The WMG Page lately. Recently, people have been using the Colored Truths incorrectly, making UP new Colored Truth, and spamming the place with repetitive or completely off-base, trolling theories. Can we get some cleanup in that page? I'd do it myself, but I don't trust my ability to be completely unbiased.

* Doesn't the Blue Truth hurt Battler rather then help him. For example, early in the third game Battler demands that Beato repeat "All six were killed by other people" (or something to the effect) when she refuses he claims that the refusal is the same as resigning. She tries to counter by saying [[color:red:None of the six people committed suicide!]], but ultimately resigns. Couldn't he have used the same argument in the fourth game?

* For God's sake! Why does every female character have huge boobs!? 3 lolis to about 15 DDs.

** actually Beato says way back in ep 2 that her game follows knox rules. Besides the real reason i think that both Virgilia and Dlanor said that they don't know if Beato's game follows Knox is cuz they are not Beato and only Beato can confirm that.

** I think those flashbacks are meant to show that one of the message bottles depicted the second arc.

** Now, don't get me wrong - for the sexism at play, I realize it's still 1986. Eva's backstory - hell, the family history of all the siblings - is tragic, but it doesn't explain why then they, and the siblings would almost always be ready to explain any. trivial. thing as being somehow gender-related. For the weird perverted stuff, it's not often it shows up for most people besides Battler and [[Spoiler: Rudolf]], and it gets noticeably better for Battler as the series goes on - which is why the series is all the more jarring when it throws an unnecessary line in. I'm used to weird [[{{Moe}} moe]] stuff, even if I despise it, so I can somehow condition myself not to find the Stake Sisters or the Eiserne Jungfrau too silly. It's just... I guess I'm more used to this sort of thing in [[{{Shonen}} shonen]] works?

* The first Twilight of episode 2, thats all, if you have read Ep 7 you should know why... i guess.
** Please elaborate.
** Well, forget it, i kinda didn´t did the research, every murder in Ep 2 where made by the basis that no hiden door nor hiden whatever existed on the places that the murders happened... but there is one that never was stated in red. It bugs me because i tought it was, but, well... my bad.

*** When Ange was five years old or so, she was playing witches with Maria as a game. When she realized Maria was totally serious, however, she told her htat magic wasn't real and toys can't talk and stuff, and made Maria feel embarassed. The juxtaposition with Ange's high school days is DramaticIrony.

* How was Battler able to figure out Shakanon using only information from the first five games?

*** Lots of people had the whole Shkanon thing figured out by Episode Three. It's kind of really fucking obvious once you realize the story lies to you at every opportunity, and when you realize the stories are arranged for Shkanon to be the culprit.
*** i already check 1st game. 1t twilight.... im so stupid, i dont know what are you talking about, or maybe im thinking on other thing...

**** I read that,but never though it was relevant, i guess watching shanon corpse in the anime kinda screw that to me xD

* The Requiem of the Golden Witch manga adaptation. The Visual Novel stresses the fact that Lion's, and by extension Yasu's, gender is unknown and perhaps unknowable. This is an extremely important plotpoint for pretty much the entire subtext of the Episode, and is the coup-de-grace in inspiring Yasu's madness. In the manga? "So are you father and daughter?" "Yup." Fuck you, manga. This is the last straw of fuckups I'm willing to tolerate from you.

*** Oh play nice dude, maybe he dont know how translate it, i guess something like "so, you two are related" would work better, but oh well, a little mistake cannot be so bad....

*** Maria's knowledge is true, but she knows a lot less them it seems. For starters, the Scorpion Amulet is hinted to be a simple toy, not a genuine charm. Her Hebrew is crappy because she doesn't really knows the language but, instead, memorized how to 'draw' them in these specific magical circles. In [=EP7=][[spoiler:it is reveled it was ''Maria'' who thought Beatrice. This, however, doesn't mean she is all the knowledgeable in the occult, but, rather, that the murderers happen following the few things Maria knows]]. Maria only knows about some random specific topics but, as 'by chance', Beatrice used pentagrams Maria knew and Maria is the only one explaining them to Battler, it seems he knowledge is vast then it actually is.

* Ok, why in Ep7 Battler do not return to Rokkenjima?