History Headscratchers / TwoThousandOneASpaceOdyssey

29th Jun '16 12:18:54 PM HeraldAlberich
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* Why didn't the government tell Frank and Dave why they were going to Jupiter, and what ''did'' they tell them about the mission? Once they were away from Earth, if not earlier, there wasn't any reason to swear HAL to secrecy about the mission's purpose, and (of course) it would have prevented the computer's LogicBomb. Knowing that they're going to investigate evidence of alien life would have imbued the mission with a sense of purpose, with little drawback, and if nothing else, would have countered the boredom of the long flight with the anticipation of their goal.
28th Oct '15 11:11:11 PM KarMann
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* Why didn't HAL just cut off the oxygen in the entire ship and kill everybody on board, instead of the overly-contrived mechanics of lying about a malfunctioning piece of equipment and sending someone out on a spacewalk so he could do it physically and singly (and with no plan as-of-yet for the other remaining member); I can understand him not having any moveable "weapons" to do it with inside the ship (hence why he'd require them to be outside)... but he shouldn't need to bother with *ANY* of that if the oxygen supply control is under his command(which it almost definitely certainly is)?

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* Why didn't HAL just cut off the oxygen in the entire ship and kill everybody on board, instead of the overly-contrived mechanics of lying about a malfunctioning piece of equipment and sending someone out on a spacewalk so he could do it physically and singly (and with no plan as-of-yet for the other remaining member); I can understand him not having any moveable movable "weapons" to do it with inside the ship (hence why he'd require them to be outside)... but he shouldn't need to bother with *ANY* of that if the oxygen supply control is under his command(which it almost definitely certainly is)?



** Who's to say there wasn't? There could have been any number of satellites orbiting the Moon, Jupiter, or both at the time. And why do you believe that the signal "wouldn't have been aimed anywhere in particular"? What would be the point in sending a signal off in a random direction into deep space? Finally, presumably the monolith would have just waited until Jupiter rose to transmit its signal; keep in mind that the monolith had already been unearthed for some time by the time Floyd et al got to it.

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** Who's to say there wasn't? There could have been any number of satellites orbiting the Moon, Jupiter, or both at the time. And why do you believe that the signal "wouldn't have been aimed anywhere in particular"? What would be the point in sending a signal off in a random direction into deep space? Finally, presumably the monolith would have just waited until Jupiter rose to transmit its signal; keep in mind that the monolith had already been unearthed for some time by the time Floyd et al al. got to it.



**** The beam had 2 purposes. 1) alert TMA-2 that an intelligent species had evolved and developed technology to a level needed to find and unearth TMA-1 2) Force said species to figure out where TMA-2 was by tracking the beam. An omnidirectional beam doesn't fulfil the second objective. Possibly the Monolith would rebroadcast the signal every few years if the species wasn't able to figure out where TMA-2 was due to not having satellites in the right position to track the signal or rebury itself if it had been unearthed by something like an asteroid impact.

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**** The beam had 2 purposes. 1) alert TMA-2 that an intelligent species had evolved and developed technology to a level needed to find and unearth TMA-1 2) Force said species to figure out where TMA-2 was by tracking the beam. An omnidirectional beam doesn't fulfil fulfill the second objective. Possibly the Monolith would rebroadcast the signal every few years if the species wasn't able to figure out where TMA-2 was due to not having satellites in the right position to track the signal or rebury itself if it had been unearthed by something like an asteroid impact.



** It doesn't quite match up correctly in execution, but the stewardess has to do her little walk upside-down because the bridge of the lunar ship is facing forward, alowing the pilot to look out the front, while the passenger section is oriented so that when the ship lands they are upright. The pilots aren't "strapped to the ceiling" - they are, in affect, strapped to the ''floor'' when the ship lands on the moon, facing upward out the windows.
** And there is no artificial gravity - there would be no need for the centerfuge (the big wheel set) in ''Discovery'' if they had artificial gravity. Dave and Frank never actually walk around on the bridge. They do move around a little too freely in the pod bay, which should be in zero-G, but the idea is that they are sticking to the floor with grip-shoes (there are velcro strips carpeting the set for that very reason). Maybe they're just better at using their grippy shoes than the stewardess earlier in the film was.

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** It doesn't quite match up correctly in execution, but the stewardess has to do her little walk upside-down because the bridge of the lunar ship is facing forward, alowing allowing the pilot to look out the front, while the passenger section is oriented so that when the ship lands they are upright. The pilots aren't "strapped to the ceiling" - they are, in affect, strapped to the ''floor'' when the ship lands on the moon, facing upward out the windows.
** And there is no artificial gravity - there would be no need for the centerfuge centrifuge (the big wheel set) in ''Discovery'' if they had artificial gravity. Dave and Frank never actually walk around on the bridge. They do move around a little too freely in the pod bay, which should be in zero-G, but the idea is that they are sticking to the floor with grip-shoes (there are velcro strips carpeting the set for that very reason). Maybe they're just better at using their grippy shoes than the stewardess earlier in the film was.
28th Oct '15 11:02:28 PM KarMann
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* Why didn't HAL just cut off the oxygen in the entire ship and kill everybody on board, instead of the overly-contrived mechanics of lying about a malfunctioning piece of equipment and sending someone out on a spacewalk so he could do it physically and singly(and with no plan as-of-yet for the other remaining member); I can understand him not having any moveable "weapons" to do it with inside the ship(hence why he'd require them to be outside)...but he shouldn't need to bother with *ANY* of that if the oxygen supply control is under his command(which it almost definitely certainly is)?

to:

* Why didn't HAL just cut off the oxygen in the entire ship and kill everybody on board, instead of the overly-contrived mechanics of lying about a malfunctioning piece of equipment and sending someone out on a spacewalk so he could do it physically and singly(and singly (and with no plan as-of-yet for the other remaining member); I can understand him not having any moveable "weapons" to do it with inside the ship(hence ship (hence why he'd require them to be outside)...outside)... but he shouldn't need to bother with *ANY* of that if the oxygen supply control is under his command(which it almost definitely certainly is)?
24th Aug '15 8:43:43 AM Bense
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** The cockpit seats are set so that while the ''Discovery'' is firing her engines they will be pushed down into their seats instead of in some other direction.
3rd Apr '14 2:02:26 PM JoeBentley
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* What was the original plan for HAL? In the original novel the Discovery lacked the fuel for a return trip. If everything had gone according to plan at the end of their mission the 5 astronauts would have all gone into hibernation and leave HAL in charge of the ship until a second vessel was sent to retrieve them. But in 2010 we learn that HAL is pretty much hardwired into the Discovery, with the crew of Lenov having to leave HAL behind to perish in the explosion of Jupiter. So was the plan to maroon HAL out in space the plan all along?
3rd Apr '14 2:00:44 PM JoeBentley
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** The apparent Earth-level gravity on Clavius is a production oversight, similar to how Dave leans on HAL's console in the pod bay which is a zero-g environment. As for the quicker movement with the grip shoes by Dave and Frank, a possible in universe explanation is that in the time between the "Blue Danube" sequence and the flight of Discovery the technology had been improved to allow for more freeform movement (remember the Monolith was found on the Moon in 1999, and Discovery is sent off to Jupiter 18 months later in 2001). Also if you look at the bridge for Discovery, the two cockpit seats are actually angled downward due to it being a zero-g environment.

to:

** The apparent Earth-level gravity on Clavius is a production oversight, similar to how Dave leans on HAL's console in the pod bay which is a zero-g environment. As for the quicker movement with the grip shoes by Dave and Frank, a possible in universe explanation is that in the time between the "Blue Danube" sequence and the flight of Discovery the technology had been improved to allow for more freeform movement (remember the Monolith was found on the Moon in 1999, and Discovery is sent off to Jupiter 18 months later in 2001). Also if you look at the bridge for Discovery, the two cockpit seats are actually angled downward due to it being a zero-g environment.environment.
* What was the original plan for HAL? In the original novel the Discovery lacked the fuel for a return trip. If everything had gone according to plan at the end of their mission the 5 astronauts would have all gone into hibernation and leave HAL in charge of the ship until a second vessel was sent to retrieve them. But in 2010 we learn that HAL is pretty much hardwired into the Discovery, with the crew of Lenov having to leave HAL behind to perish in the explosion of Jupiter. So was the plan to maroon HAL out in space the plan all along?
11th Feb '14 10:32:22 AM HeliosPhoenix
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** The real puzzle is why everyone in Clavius base on the Moon is walking around in what is obviously Earth-normal gravity.

to:

** The real puzzle is why everyone in Clavius base on the Moon is walking around in what is obviously Earth-normal gravity.gravity.
** The apparent Earth-level gravity on Clavius is a production oversight, similar to how Dave leans on HAL's console in the pod bay which is a zero-g environment. As for the quicker movement with the grip shoes by Dave and Frank, a possible in universe explanation is that in the time between the "Blue Danube" sequence and the flight of Discovery the technology had been improved to allow for more freeform movement (remember the Monolith was found on the Moon in 1999, and Discovery is sent off to Jupiter 18 months later in 2001). Also if you look at the bridge for Discovery, the two cockpit seats are actually angled downward due to it being a zero-g environment.
11th Feb '14 10:27:00 AM HeliosPhoenix
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** An early draft of the script actually had the depressurization scene from the novel. As the troper above said it was most likely scrapped due to technical and/or budgetary reasons.
14th Dec '13 3:02:07 PM Nithael
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* This 'film' was nominated for best screenplay. How? there is no screenplay. Other than the second act there are no characters, plot, theme, anything. This says one of two things 1) Crap floating in space is the best screenplay ever becuase thats all that happens.Or 2) It was nominated on the second act alone.
** First, there is indeed a screenplay. Everything you see is scripted. Screenwriting is not solely about dialogue, despite what you may believe. And secondly: no theme? You think there's no theme? This film is thematically dense, and anyone who thinks otherwise has clearly not engaged with it closely at all.
*** The fact that the film's themes take some mental digging to unearth isn't really a problem for [[ViewersAreGeniuses the professional reviewers who make the nominations]], and some of them may have found its abstruse presentation [[TrueArtIsIncomprehensible a point in its favor]].
** Also, considering the painfully slow pacing of the film it's entirely possible that the people who nominated it just fast-forwarded to the parts with HAL which were rather brilliant.
*** No doubt they fast forwarded with the remote controls which hadn't been invented yet.
**** On video apparatuses that were only available in professional studios or labratories at the time. [[SarcasmMode Academy members have that kind of clout, you know]].
**** The remote is OlderThanTelevision, and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_control#History just a tad younger than film]], but never mind since remotes weren't mentioned in the original comment anyway. Film projectors, of course, can be made to accelerate in a manner synonymous with fast forwarding. Which isn't to say the Academy skipped ahead, but they certainly had the means to.
**** Unless one can find some archival evidence that the thousands of members of AMPAS managed to all convince the projectionists at the Academy screenings to do this, this remains a null point.
* The flash-forward from the midair bone to the space platform is repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly characterized as a "jump cut." Anyone with a knowledge of film vocabulary can tell you that it is not a jump cut, it is a graphic match (as well as a flash forward).



** The real puzzle is why everyone in Clavius base on the Moon is walking around in what is obviously Earth-normal gravity.
* The end.
** [[MindScrewdriver Read the book.]]
** If "read the book" is the answer to understanding/appreciating a film, that makes for a pretty poor film, methinks(and nowhere in the film or its marketing is it implied or stated that the film is supplementary to the book, or vice versa); it honestly took me *years* to "get" this film and, even then, I had to be outright *told* what he was going for...ie: what the monolith represented, what the giant cosmic baby represented, etc. And again, even then, I find some of the "themes"(and their presentations as such in this film) pretentious and tenuous *AT BEST*...ie: how both HAL and the chimp(and Capt. Bowman, incidentally, if HAL counts...which he does, because otherwise it makes the correlation to the chimp non-existent) killed others in order to gain/maintain power, etc. Would it have hurt to have one single line from the Captain stating something like, "OMG...I can see the universe. It's so vast. And...beautiful!" or something along those lines? Nevermind other expository references(like "Welcome, Dr. Bowman...I congratulate you, and your species, on making it this far. Your mind is a wonderful thing. Not a great many can lay claim to that." or etc)? As it is, it seems more like the "Monolith" is an evil force inspiring sentient beings to commit murder rather than a generic "cosmic awareness" concept; also, the project as a whole seems to take the stance that Humanity is on a constant upward voyage towards predestined Godhood of the Universe through the sheer awesomeness of our Mind alone, instead of arriving where we're at via a series of advantageous adaptations in response to our immediate environment...which is, y'know, how Evolution works.
** PS: I kept waiting for the chimp to show up somewhere near the end, even only in passing and if not to actually fill/make some actual plot points.
** There's kinda/sorta an official explanation if you also watch/read 2010, but to an extent, Kubrick wanted 2001 to be the kind of film you tried to come to your own conclusions about. That's why everything was left very ambiguous and unclear. If you haven't thought about the film, he failed in what he tried to do, create a sci-fi film that WASN'T 50's monster/hostile alien schlock with low budgets and shitty actors/writing. He wanted to make something that would turn sci-fi filmmaking into art, to have it taken as seriously as any other genre. He wanted to create a film dense in ideas and concepts that one had to think deep about afterwards, rather than just be dragged mindlessly along through the plot, and forget about it within a week. Also, Clarke and Kubrick wrote and directed the book and film at the same time, the development of one influencing the other. You don't necessarily need the book to understand the film (or vice versa), but it helps. Ultimately, your viewpoint may be as valid as any other. I just happened to come to a different conclusion.
** (continued) For example, I never saw Dave disconnecting HAL as an attempt to maintain power. He was trying to stay alive, much like HAL killed the other crewmembers because he was in fear for his own life (knowing he could be disconnected, keeping the Monolith a secret for almost a year against his instincts to be truthful and transparent). The Apes were fighting over a watering hole (which also was their lifeline, to an extent). And the Monolith planted the idea of using tools to feed themselves from animals (rather than scrounge for scant vegetation in a relatively barren plain) and defend from predators; using their newfound knowledge to kill other members of their species was kinda either an unforeseen consequence, or just simply because [[HumansAreBastards apes are bastards]] to begin with. And the Monolith on the moon didn't trigger a killing spree, either. The whole film is not necessarily about trying to find a clearly defined plot thread so one can just "get it" and move on. The fact you took years to get what you did means you were actually trying to wrap your head around it and figure it out. That's the whole point.

to:

** The real puzzle is why everyone in Clavius base on the Moon is walking around in what is obviously Earth-normal gravity.
* The end.
** [[MindScrewdriver Read the book.]]
** If "read the book" is the answer to understanding/appreciating a film, that makes for a pretty poor film, methinks(and nowhere in the film or its marketing is it implied or stated that the film is supplementary to the book, or vice versa); it honestly took me *years* to "get" this film and, even then, I had to be outright *told* what he was going for...ie: what the monolith represented, what the giant cosmic baby represented, etc. And again, even then, I find some of the "themes"(and their presentations as such in this film) pretentious and tenuous *AT BEST*...ie: how both HAL and the chimp(and Capt. Bowman, incidentally, if HAL counts...which he does, because otherwise it makes the correlation to the chimp non-existent) killed others in order to gain/maintain power, etc. Would it have hurt to have one single line from the Captain stating something like, "OMG...I can see the universe. It's so vast. And...beautiful!" or something along those lines? Nevermind other expository references(like "Welcome, Dr. Bowman...I congratulate you, and your species, on making it this far. Your mind is a wonderful thing. Not a great many can lay claim to that." or etc)? As it is, it seems more like the "Monolith" is an evil force inspiring sentient beings to commit murder rather than a generic "cosmic awareness" concept; also, the project as a whole seems to take the stance that Humanity is on a constant upward voyage towards predestined Godhood of the Universe through the sheer awesomeness of our Mind alone, instead of arriving where we're at via a series of advantageous adaptations in response to our immediate environment...which is, y'know, how Evolution works.
** PS: I kept waiting for the chimp to show up somewhere near the end, even only in passing and if not to actually fill/make some actual plot points.
** There's kinda/sorta an official explanation if you also watch/read 2010, but to an extent, Kubrick wanted 2001 to be the kind of film you tried to come to your own conclusions about. That's why everything was left very ambiguous and unclear. If you haven't thought about the film, he failed in what he tried to do, create a sci-fi film that WASN'T 50's monster/hostile alien schlock with low budgets and shitty actors/writing. He wanted to make something that would turn sci-fi filmmaking into art, to have it taken as seriously as any other genre. He wanted to create a film dense in ideas and concepts that one had to think deep about afterwards, rather than just be dragged mindlessly along through the plot, and forget about it within a week. Also, Clarke and Kubrick wrote and directed the book and film at the same time, the development of one influencing the other. You don't necessarily need the book to understand the film (or vice versa), but it helps. Ultimately, your viewpoint may be as valid as any other. I just happened to come to a different conclusion.
** (continued) For example, I never saw Dave disconnecting HAL as an attempt to maintain power. He was trying to stay alive, much like HAL killed the other crewmembers because he was in fear for his own life (knowing he could be disconnected, keeping the Monolith a secret for almost a year against his instincts to be truthful and transparent). The Apes were fighting over a watering hole (which also was their lifeline, to an extent). And the Monolith planted the idea of using tools to feed themselves from animals (rather than scrounge for scant vegetation in a relatively barren plain) and defend from predators; using their newfound knowledge to kill other members of their species was kinda either an unforeseen consequence, or just simply because [[HumansAreBastards apes are bastards]] to begin with. And the Monolith on the moon didn't trigger a killing spree, either. The whole film is not necessarily about trying to find a clearly defined plot thread so one can just "get it" and move on. The fact you took years to get what you did means you were actually trying to wrap your head around it and figure it out. That's the whole point.
gravity.
4th Nov '13 1:15:01 PM BlobbyFissure
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**** Unless one can find some archival evidence that the thousands of members of AMPAS managed to all convince the projectionists at the Academy screenings to do this, this remains a null point.
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