History Headscratchers / TheWheelOfTime

15th Jun '16 6:28:16 PM rTicWolf
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** Gray Men are almost impossible to notice. The party might not even have been aware he was there themselves.
11th Jun '16 4:21:45 PM nombretomado
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** To answer point 2: 1) It would do no good, 2) Rand is not strong enough to stand up to them. Much as it pains to say it, the Aiel could really benefit from the D'Haran ethos in the SwordOfTruth seroes about Richard being the magic against magic and they the steel against steel. The Aiel in general come off as more than a little intractable and unsympathetic to people who hold a divergent view of how to live, hence their usual dismissal of and lack of sympathy to the idea that anyone else might have a tie on Rand and just as much at stake, and so bitch when Rand does not regard them as his only concern. To be fair they want to protect their people and are Rand's core weapons, but still, they are dangerously close to Aes Sedai and Seanchan in how unbendingly they think others should always conform to their opinions, even when it makes no objective sense. In this case, that means any argument Rand could make would be fruitless as he has already explained they can do no good and still insisted on coming.

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** To answer point 2: 1) It would do no good, 2) Rand is not strong enough to stand up to them. Much as it pains to say it, the Aiel could really benefit from the D'Haran ethos in the SwordOfTruth Literature/SwordOfTruth seroes about Richard being the magic against magic and they the steel against steel. The Aiel in general come off as more than a little intractable and unsympathetic to people who hold a divergent view of how to live, hence their usual dismissal of and lack of sympathy to the idea that anyone else might have a tie on Rand and just as much at stake, and so bitch when Rand does not regard them as his only concern. To be fair they want to protect their people and are Rand's core weapons, but still, they are dangerously close to Aes Sedai and Seanchan in how unbendingly they think others should always conform to their opinions, even when it makes no objective sense. In this case, that means any argument Rand could make would be fruitless as he has already explained they can do no good and still insisted on coming.
11th May '16 5:59:39 AM Bezy
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**** Only if the American insisted in speaking in nothing but slang and jargan. The basic language really hasn't changed much, which is why we have no real problems reading most 19th century works.

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**** Only if the American two Americans insisted in speaking in nothing but slang and jargan.jargon. The basic language really hasn't changed much, which is why we have no real problems reading most 19th century works.
15th Jan '16 11:27:58 PM laserviking42
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** Consider how Latin broke down into the Romance languages in the 1500 years since Rome fell (they split alot earlier than that), you have five major languages that are similar, but mutually unintelligible. That doesn't take into account all the people outside of Rome's control (the Aiel and Sharans in WoT's case). 3000 years mean the Seanchan should be completely unintelligible to Randlanders, yet all thats mentioned is a 'slurring of the words'. Aside from Tear adding 'do' to their sentences, there is no other mention of even regional or dialect differences, and we have those even within the US.
15th Jan '16 11:19:32 PM laserviking42
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* His explanation does not jibe with what we know of human nature. Take Christianity, Jesus was known by his miracles, and the existence of the supernatural was made manifestly clear. To this day miracles are occasionally recognized (especially when the Catholic church needs to make someone a saint) and given as proof. Especially when there's a Dark One who is hell bent on destroying the world, this should mean that by necessity people turn to a higher power to bolster them in their fight against it. It would be radically different religion with all the magic floating around, but it would be there.
** Tar Valon and the Aes Sedai are meant as a clear expy of Rome and the Catholic Church, in that they base their political power on their morality of serving others (while oftentimes being quite self serving). This already is a religion in all but name.
15th Jan '16 11:07:21 PM laserviking42
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*** If RJ was a better writer, saying if he had shown a layer of depth anywhere else in the books, it could almost be read as a meta-commentary on rape and society's reaction to it. Reversing the gender roles you'd have a young woman who constantly fooled around whenever she could and thus was not virtuous. You have an older man in power who kidnaps, isolates then rapes said woman repeatedly. He is controlling to the point of dressing her in clothes of his choosing, feeding her, degrading her etc. The other characters (males in this gender flipped world) when told of her struggles, basically laugh it off with a variety of excuses: that she's a whore and this is just what happens to whores (a depressingly common reaction today), that he's giving her so much stuff, she must want it on some level. That she's not fighting back enough, etc. All of this would be a realistic portrayal of the way society tends to downplay and rationalize victims of sexual violence, especially when the aggressors are powerful men.

However Robert Jordan has never ever shown this level of nuance, and given his staggering one-dimensional view of women (and a lot of men), I cannot believe this is intentional in any way.
15th Jan '16 4:46:17 PM laserviking42
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****** It's not PC gone mad when ''every'' woman acts like a nagging shrew or lovestruck teenager, or quite often both at the same time. The sexism is there because every woman is written the exact same way. Not only that, its written as if this is the way women naturally are, not as the result of them being in charge. That women can be bad people and do bad things is natural, but the series just presents this behavior as the default setting, something men are so used to that they just have to live with. The men are often depicted as just as dysfunctional, but for them its the result of actual characterization not just 'men being men'.
29th Nov '15 6:45:46 PM Dorianin
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******A certain point may have been missed. The gender roles have been reversed. Up until 20 or 30 years ago, all these female behaviours would have been perfectly acceptable for men, in the real world. Women are the dominant sex in this world, in a renaissance era setting.
30th Sep '15 1:07:28 AM Bronnt
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*** Regarding the point about Perrin supposedly being in disgrace: Rand sent him on a mission to fetch a specific person and bring him back. He made sure Perrin had a small army and some channelers with him in case this person was unwilling to come back peacefully. By the time Faile was captured, that task has been completely accomplished-he has the person Rand wanted and is prepared to head back to Rand (Masema offered some bogus excuse about not wanting to Travel unless Rand was weaving...which could have been solved by bringing Rand). The only thing preventing him from going back to Rand was the fact that his wife was kidnapped. This is where the subplot goes insane-the fact that his missions is SUPPOSED to be taking him immediately back to Rand is forgotten. Rand never wonders why his friend is taking months and months on a quest that should have taken 2 weeks, at most. Perrin never tries to get word to say "I did what you wanted, but now I need help with something." Keep in mind that he later recognizes that he needs tons of extra manpower, and instead of trying to find his closest friend (who leads the most powerful army known to exist), he instead makes friendly with the Seanchan who have been nothing but hostile prior to this point. He also scoops up tons of people from the Two Rivers to help fight (including Rand's own father) but never asks Rand. Also, I can't reiterate enough that he's already accomplished the one task he was supposed to do and is still not even trying to tell Rand about it. There are so many lampshades hanging on the fact that he can Travel all over the place to accomplish his goals that it gets ridiculous. This subplot goes so rampant that it develops its own subplot where they need to get grain, and instead of heading to the huge grain markets of Tear, they Travel to a place only a few miles away. It gets even more nuts when these two characters don't reunite after Faile is rescued and Masema is dead. They don't have enough people to make Gateways for the huge mass of people, so instead of trying to tell Rand where they are, they just decide to have everyone walk instead. It's an Idiot Plot that drags over five not-small books.

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*** ** Regarding the point about Perrin supposedly being in disgrace: Rand sent him on a mission to fetch a specific person and bring him back. He made sure Perrin had a small army and some channelers with him in case this person was unwilling to come back peacefully. By the time Faile was captured, that task has been completely accomplished-he has the person Rand wanted and is prepared to head back to Rand (Masema offered some bogus excuse about not wanting to Travel unless Rand was weaving...which could have been solved by bringing Rand). The only thing preventing him from going back to Rand was the fact that his wife was kidnapped. This is where the subplot goes insane-the fact that his missions is SUPPOSED to be taking him immediately back to Rand is forgotten. Rand never wonders why his friend is taking months and months on a quest that should have taken 2 weeks, at most. Perrin never tries to get word to say "I did what you wanted, but now I need help with something." Keep in mind that he later recognizes that he needs tons of extra manpower, and instead of trying to find his closest friend (who leads the most powerful army known to exist), he instead makes friendly with the Seanchan who have been nothing but hostile prior to this point. He also scoops up tons of people from the Two Rivers to help fight (including Rand's own father) but never asks Rand. Also, I can't reiterate enough that he's already accomplished the one task he was supposed to do and is still not even trying to tell Rand about it. There are so many lampshades hanging on the fact that he can Travel all over the place to accomplish his goals that it gets ridiculous. This subplot goes so rampant that it develops its own subplot where they need to get grain, and instead of heading to the huge grain markets of Tear, they Travel to a place only a few miles away. It gets even more nuts when these two characters don't reunite after Faile is rescued and Masema is dead. They don't have enough people to make Gateways for the huge mass of people, so instead of trying to tell Rand where they are, they just decide to have everyone walk instead. It's an Idiot Plot that drags over five not-small books.
30th Sep '15 1:06:48 AM Bronnt
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to:

***Regarding the point about Perrin supposedly being in disgrace: Rand sent him on a mission to fetch a specific person and bring him back. He made sure Perrin had a small army and some channelers with him in case this person was unwilling to come back peacefully. By the time Faile was captured, that task has been completely accomplished-he has the person Rand wanted and is prepared to head back to Rand (Masema offered some bogus excuse about not wanting to Travel unless Rand was weaving...which could have been solved by bringing Rand). The only thing preventing him from going back to Rand was the fact that his wife was kidnapped. This is where the subplot goes insane-the fact that his missions is SUPPOSED to be taking him immediately back to Rand is forgotten. Rand never wonders why his friend is taking months and months on a quest that should have taken 2 weeks, at most. Perrin never tries to get word to say "I did what you wanted, but now I need help with something." Keep in mind that he later recognizes that he needs tons of extra manpower, and instead of trying to find his closest friend (who leads the most powerful army known to exist), he instead makes friendly with the Seanchan who have been nothing but hostile prior to this point. He also scoops up tons of people from the Two Rivers to help fight (including Rand's own father) but never asks Rand. Also, I can't reiterate enough that he's already accomplished the one task he was supposed to do and is still not even trying to tell Rand about it. There are so many lampshades hanging on the fact that he can Travel all over the place to accomplish his goals that it gets ridiculous. This subplot goes so rampant that it develops its own subplot where they need to get grain, and instead of heading to the huge grain markets of Tear, they Travel to a place only a few miles away. It gets even more nuts when these two characters don't reunite after Faile is rescued and Masema is dead. They don't have enough people to make Gateways for the huge mass of people, so instead of trying to tell Rand where they are, they just decide to have everyone walk instead. It's an Idiot Plot that drags over five not-small books.
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