History Headscratchers / TheSorcerersApprentice

2nd Jan '16 8:55:39 AM CaptHayfever
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They just said it.
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*** If the Troper before you is correct & the first spell only allows movement within sight of the trapping mirror, then Horvath couldn't leave the room to find another reflective surface elsewhere.
5th Apr '15 3:16:37 PM Ingonyama
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** She does apparently participate briefly in the shield against Morgana's spell with Dave and Balthazar (freeze-frame on the DVD is your friend), but otherwise she doesn't do anything to help, just crouches over Balthazar and cradles him. She doesn't even do anything to try and help Dave resuscitate him. Yes, the movie was all about the ChosenOne coming into his powers, and he was prophesied as [[TheOnlyOneAllowedToDefeatYou The Only One Allowed To Defeat Her]], but surely she could have helped ''somehow. At the very least having housed Morgana in her for centuries she might have learned some powerful spells or perhaps even a weakness she could have told Dave.
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** She does apparently participate briefly in the shield against Morgana's spell with Dave and Balthazar (freeze-frame on the DVD is your friend), but otherwise she doesn't do anything to help, just crouches over Balthazar and cradles him. She doesn't even do anything to try and help Dave resuscitate him. Yes, the movie was all about the ChosenOne coming into his powers, and he was prophesied as [[TheOnlyOneAllowedToDefeatYou The Only One Allowed To Defeat Her]], but surely she could have helped ''somehow.''somehow''. At the very least having housed Morgana in her for centuries she might have learned some powerful spells or perhaps even a weakness she could have told Dave.
4th Dec '14 10:23:46 AM bookwormgal
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*** Uh, that IS the point. Yes, AWizardDidIt is a trope, but in a universe with SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic, AWizardDidIt is no more acceptable than "A scientist did it" would be in a hard sci fi movie. Once you decide you're going to explain magic and not just HandWave it then yes, you ''do'' need to explain how it works. Basically you're saying you think magic should never be explained. That's a valid view, but trying to explain it, whether through MagicAIsMagicA, SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic, or some other way of explaining the rules of FunctionalMagic, is equally valid.

*** Uh, that IS the point. Yes, AWizardDidIt is a trope, but in a universe with SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic, AWizardDidIt is no more acceptable than "A scientist did it" would be in a hard sci fi movie. Once you decide you're going to explain magic and not just HandWave it then yes, you ''do'' need to explain how it works. Basically you're saying you think magic should never be explained. That's a valid view, but trying to explain it, whether through MagicAIsMagicA, SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic, or some other way of explaining the rules of FunctionalMagic, is equally valid.
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*** Uh, that IS the point. Yes, AWizardDidIt is a trope, but in a universe with SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic, AWizardDidIt is no more acceptable than "A scientist did it" would be in a hard sci fi movie. Once you decide you're going to explain magic and not just HandWave it then yes, you ''do'' need to explain how it works. Basically you're saying you think magic should never be explained. That's a valid view, but trying to explain it, whether through MagicAIsMagicA, SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic, or some other way of explaining the rules of FunctionalMagic, is equally valid.
3rd Dec '14 1:19:18 PM bookwormgal
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Someone deleted a bunch of stuff
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[[folder: Ancient sorcerers]]

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[[/folder]] [[folder:No supervision for giant makeshift speakers?]]

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** That’s just what we see him doing with it for the big romantic moment. He expressly says that he was doing some kind of research and the whole plasma speaker thing was something he had never noticed or thought about until he listened to her radio show. [[/folder]] [[folder: Abigail Williams]]

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[[/folder]] [[folder: Old Man Shoes]]

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*** Make sure to start out by shouting "[[Film/MenInBlack Hey! Old guys!]]" [[/folder]] [[folder: The Mop Scene]]

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[[/folder]] [[folder:Where Are The Rest Of Them?]]

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[[/folder]] [[folder: The Song]]

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[[/folder]] [[folder: Becky's Role]]

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[[/folder]] [[folder: The Hair]]

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** Maybe he just likes the crazy man hairstyle? *** Um, he was busy with training Dave, dealing with Horvath and Co, planning for foiling Morgana, and catching up on research on the fusion spell? He was a teeny bit busy and had other things on his mind. Hair care does take second place to saving the world... [[/folder]] [[folder: Mirror Trap Vs Mirror Universe]]

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** Could be that the spell specifies he needs a second mirrored surface, different than the one he was stuck in. Else it wouldn't be much of trap, would it? *** It was a different spell. The First is described as a "Mirror Trap" while the second is "Mirror universe". WMG: The first spell allows only movement within where the mirror can "see", while the second is a different spell, easier to cast while on the run, that creates a mirror universe.

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[[/folder]] [[folder: Veronica]]

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[[/folder]] [[folder: Skyline]]

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** Not much of an issue story-wise, honestly, and adding the towers in digitally, while possible, was probably considered a bad idea for obvious reasons. [[/folder]] [[folder: Music in a Faraday Cage]]

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** [[FridgeHorror Or maybe ]] he recorded her show so he can just listen to her voice [[StalkerWithACrush all night]]. [[/folder]] [[folder: Where'd They Go Afterwards?]]

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[[/folder]] [[folder: Just Steal The Ring]]

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[[/folder]] [[folder: Rules for Magic, Part 1]]

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[[/folder]] [[folder: Rules for Magic, Part 2]]

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[[/folder]] [[folder: Horvath and the 1920s Gangster Look]]

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[[/folder]]
3rd Dec '14 1:03:23 PM bookwormgal
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Someone deleted a bunch of stuff
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** So because he's old, he's not allowed to take offense at the comment? ** I thought he was just messing with Dave there. He's certainly shown himself to be snarky enough for it. ** Old people don't really like to be told they're old. Just ask one.
3rd Dec '14 1:01:37 PM bookwormgal
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** Maybe Merlin and Morgana were older than the middle ages? ** Maybe after Merlin and Morgana became so powerful/famous, their supporters just kind of formed systems based on each of their ideologies. There probably would be some eclectic sorcerers out there who don't adhere to either group. This could be something that would have come up in one of the sequels, which, as far as I know, aren't getting made (but they wanted to). *** Going off of that, sorcerers from before their time get retroactively described as 'proto-Merlineans/Morganians' depending on their general ideology?
3rd Dec '14 1:00:44 PM bookwormgal
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** Perhaps the scene was to show how powerful Dave is when he's not trying too hard and simply doing what comes naturally. Also, I kept expecting Balthazar to rather pointedly ask if he took the ring off at any point while the mops were doing their thing.
3rd Dec '14 1:00:09 PM bookwormgal
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** YMMV, I guess, for me that scene was a must - I'd think there's something wrong with the movie if they hadn't put it in. As for how it was possible... the way I understand it, creating plasma balls and controlling mops were two different kinds of magic. The first one was "focus hard enough on creating a plasma ball and there you go", while in the second one Dave seemed to have used an actual spell, which he wasn't skilled enough to execute properly. He had enough natural talent to make it work, but either made it work in a slightly wrong way or just had no idea how to stop it. *** keep in mind that this is pretty much ''exactly'' what happened in the Disney short, too: Apprentice Mickey tried working a complex spell that he couldn't control which got out of hand.
3rd Dec '14 12:59:14 PM bookwormgal
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** They couldn't do that for the same reason that Abigail only got two scenes: it would be far too interesting. *** Maybe Horvath's pulled the 'steal the Grimhold, release sorcerers to try to get to the Morgana layer' plan before? He wasn't captured until the 1920s, after all, according to the novelization and the Art Of book. He seemed pretty familiar with the thing, after all, and he and Balthazar had been fighting over the Grimhold for about twelve hundred years. You think in all that time someone as badass as Horvath is supposed to be WOULDN'T have managed to capture the Grimhold once or twice? Presumably Balthazar came and foiled him in the past often enough that he never reached Sun Loc, Abigail, and Morgana. He just got lucky enough this time to have the time and resources to be able to actually get down to Morgana in the film. Out of story, they didn't have the time or the budget, sadly. The Art Of book does indicate that they wanted more Morganians. ** Implications were that Balthazar was actually killing most of the Morganians he fought. The Grimhold was probably a tool for holding powerful Morganians that for one reason or another Balthazar couldn't kill outright (either due to raw power or circumstances). ** Perhaps Balthazar was holding the Morganians until he was powerful enough to kill them. Notice that he only defeats Sun Loc with help from Dave, and it's Horvath that kills Abigail. Given how long Balthazar has been doing this, he probably trapped other Morganians, leveled up for a few decades, then released them into the warm clutches of a CurbStompBattle.
3rd Dec '14 12:57:11 PM bookwormgal
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** She was meant to be a representation of the most desirable aspects of normalcy, and thus everything Dave thought he would lose if he followed Balthazar's path. Indeed, there were more than a few scenes in which he actively made a choice between the two. Giving her significant ties to the magical elements of the film would undermine that. ** I figured she was added to tone down the loads and loads of [[HoYay subtext]] between Dave and Balthazar. ** I found the character refreshing for avoiding a variety of clichés. She doesn't sneer at the geek. She's not the screaming Damsel in Distress at the end, she actually faces her fear of heights and moves a sizeable piece of electronic hardware, breaking the circle and interrupting the mass raising of the dead. She doesn't treat Dave like a lunatic and believes his story (albeit backed up with evidence she's already seen). She doesn't have a big, psychojock boyfriend. She appreciates the geek romance and cares enough about Dave to follow him after the coffee shop incident. *** I agree with all of this. Honestly all of the deriding of Becky as "nothing but the hero's love interest" and ignoring her actual contributions as well as her overall role in the story, is kind of sexist. It's like some people want to see any female who's not the primary hero and singlehandedly saving the day without breaking a sweat as being a weak quivering helpless ''girl'', and it's pretty misogynist.
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