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** He's probably part of the pirate crew who wasn't as [[IncrediblyLamePun onboard]] with the other crew's ongoing passion to sail the seas, and just concerned himself with collecting the bell like he was asked to do. Sitting inside a sandstorm for who knows how long would probably contribute in wanting to just pass away peacefully; at least the crew on the ship have each other and Subrosians to pass along the time.
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** He's probably part of the pirate crew who wasn't as [[IncrediblyLamePun onboard]] with the other crew's ongoing passion to sail the seas, and just concerned himself with collecting the bell like he was asked to do. Sitting inside a sandstorm for who knows how long would probably contribute in wanting to just pass away peacefully; at least the crew on the ship have each other and Subrosians to pass along the time. All he has is sand in his eyes.
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** He's probably part of the pirate crew who wasn't as [[IncrediblyLamePun onboard]] with the other crew's ongoing passion to sail the seas, and just concerned himself with collecting the bell like he was asked to do. Sitting inside a sandstorm for who knows how long probably would contribute to wanting to just pass away peacefully; at least the crew on the ship have each other and Subrosians to pass along the time.
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** He's probably part of the pirate crew who wasn't as [[IncrediblyLamePun onboard]] with the other crew's ongoing passion to sail the seas, and just concerned himself with collecting the bell like he was asked to do. Sitting inside a sandstorm for who knows how long would probably would contribute to in wanting to just pass away peacefully; at least the crew on the ship have each other and Subrosians to pass along the time.
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** He's probably part of the pirate crew who wasn't as [[IncrediblyLamePun onboard]] with the other crew's ongoing passion to sail the seas, and just concerned himself with collecting the bell like he was asked to do. Sitting inside a sandstorm for who knows how long probably would contribute to wanting to just pass away peacefully; at least the crew on the ship have each other and Subrosians to pass along the time.
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[[folder: Pirates]]
* The ghost of the pirate you work with in Samasa Desert in ''Seasons'' recounts how he got lost in a sandstorm and woke up as a spirit, and you helping him find the bell he was looking for enables him to pass on. This led me to think that the other pirates aren't actually dead, and that maybe they're just a type of people who happen to look like skeletons...but then when their ship sets sail and they all get seasick, they say it's because they haven't been on the open sea since "they died". So if they're all already dead, what caused that one in the desert to end up as a spirit who needed to pass on when the others are perfectly fine just being skeletons and don't seem concerned with passing on?
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** It's a defining part of Ralph's character that he's not one to sit on the sidelines and let someone else (especially Link) save the day. Link telling him that Veran is only weak against Mystery Seeds and the Switch Hook would be asking him to do just that.
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** You’ve made a couple of mistakes in this assessment, which I will now list off: 1.) Why would Veran choose to possess Link instead of Ambi when Ambi is the only one who can let work continue on the tower? 2.) Veran clearly thinks that Link does not stand a chance against Ambi’s guards since she calls them in to capture and/or kill him, so possessing him and letting Ambi go free is even more of a bad idea. 3.) I don’t even know why you’re asking about her possessing Nayru again when possessing Ambi is already a much smarter move since it takes away the need to manipulate her to do what Veran wants. It’s not as though she put off possessing Nayru to do something less effective. 5.) By the time she’s forced out out of Ambi, she doesn’t need to possess anyone since the tower is already done. She tries to possess Link once just for kicks, but decides killing him is better since she’s so frustrated with him at this point.
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** For the record, [[https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/zelda_gamepedia_en/7/7c/Timeline_Hyrule_Historia.jpg?version=486893ab827a6ee61b29e785e68b42be Hyrule Historia's timeline page]] never truly lists them one after the other, just together as a duology in alphabetical sequence (Ages/Seasons). And the main reason Ages is considered to be the second half of the story is because of its end credits, which depicts [[http://www.zeldaelements.net/images/games/oracle_of_seasons/ending/24.png Link sailing away from Labrynna on a boat.]] The next entry in the timeline after these two games is [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaLinksAwakening Link's Awakening]], which starts off with the [[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-05-Large.png same Link]]
[[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-04-Large.png in a boat.]]
[[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-04-Large.png in a boat.]]
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** For the record, [[https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/zelda_gamepedia_en/7/7c/Timeline_Hyrule_Historia.jpg?version=486893ab827a6ee61b29e785e68b42be Hyrule Historia's timeline page]] never truly lists them one after the other, just together as a duology in alphabetical sequence (Ages/Seasons). And the main reason Ages is considered to be the second half of the story is because of its end credits, which depicts [[http://www.zeldaelements.net/images/games/oracle_of_seasons/ending/24.png Link sailing away from Labrynna on a boat.]] The next entry in the timeline after these two games is [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaLinksAwakening Link's Awakening]], which starts off with the [[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-05-Large.png same Link]]
Link]] [[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-04-Large.png in a boat.]]
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** If the only argument made for Ages>>Seasons is that it gives Ambi's subplot closure, that's not a good reason to disregard the canonical order of the two games. The subplot of Ambi searching for her lover is not important to the completion of either game, and even in the scenario you get by playing them out of order, the guy is a skeleton by the time she finds him. I don't really see how that counts as closure.
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** If the only argument made for Ages>>Seasons is that it gives Ambi's subplot closure, that's not a good reason to disregard the canonical order of the two games. The subplot of Ambi searching for her lover is not important to the completion of either game, game -- I know it's why she's building the Black Tower early on, but it's not long before she forgets about that and even switches to finishing the tower so she can go down in history as a famous queen. Even in the scenario you get by playing them out of order, the guy is her lover turns out to be a skeleton by the time she finds him. I don't really see how that counts as closure.
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** If the only argument made for Ages>>Seasons is that it gives Ambi's subplot closure, that's not a good reason to disregard the canonical order of the two games. The subplot of Ambi searching for her lover is not important to the completion of either game, and even in the scenario you get by playing them out of order, the guy is a skeleton by the time she finds him. I don't really see how that counts as closure.
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[[folder: Nayru's song]]
* Why didn't the Nayru-apparition teach Link the Tune of Ages instead of the Tune of Echoes when he found the harp inside her basement? She hid it for the purpose of allowing a hero to help in case something happened to her -- why wouldn't she give him the most useful song, in that case?
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*** Although...No, that doesn't make sense either, because of the eruption that was already mentioned. The eruption happens in the area near the portal that connects to the temple remains, yet it also manages to reach into Holodrum, where those same temple remains become flooded with lava. So that means that the temple is explicitly located above the volcanoes in northwestern Subrosia, which still begs the question of how it ended up in northeastern Subrosia when it fell down underground.
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*** In support of this, there already is a portal to Subrosia from the remains of the temple in Holodrum, but it does not take you anywhere close to where the Temple ended up in Subrosia. And there are portals a few screens apart in Subrosia that take you to opposite sides of the map in Holodrum. So the case seems to be that Subrosia is located somewhere beneath Holodrum, but the portals connecting them are not synced up geographically from one to the other.
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* during the epilogue of Oracle of Seasons, everything has returned to normal in Holodrum, except that the Temple of Seasons is still stuck down in Subrosia. I realize there’s not a lot the heroes can do about getting it out, but why don’t Din, the Maku Tree, or the season spirits seem concerned about it? And for that matter, if the seasons remain in balance do long as Din is free from imprisonment, why did Onox bother sinking the temple to begin with? What did it accomplish for him?
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* during During the epilogue of Oracle of Seasons, everything has returned to normal in Holodrum, except that the Temple of Seasons is still stuck down in Subrosia. I realize there’s not a lot the heroes can do about getting it out, but why don’t Din, the Maku Tree, or the season spirits seem concerned about it? And for that matter, if the seasons remain in balance do so long as Din is free from imprisonment, why did Onox bother sinking the temple to begin with? What did it accomplish for him?
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[[folder: Temple of Seasons]]
* during the epilogue of Oracle of Seasons, everything has returned to normal in Holodrum, except that the Temple of Seasons is still stuck down in Subrosia. I realize there’s not a lot the heroes can do about getting it out, but why don’t Din, the Maku Tree, or the season spirits seem concerned about it? And for that matter, if the seasons remain in balance do long as Din is free from imprisonment, why did Onox bother sinking the temple to begin with? What did it accomplish for him?
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[[folder: Why are the Maku Trees so vague?]]
* In the early part of both games, the Maku Trees tell Link that gathering the Essences of Nature/Time will help him defeat Onox/Veran, but neither of them elaborate on how that will work or what the essences ultimately do, meaning you spend most of the game working toward a goal that you don't really even understand. It turns out that gathering the essences allows each Maku Tree to grow a large seed that, when used, dispels the protective magic surrounding Onox's castle and (presumably) the Black Tower. What kept them from just explaining that from the get-go?
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** The Cap'n is only reduced to bones as seen in ''Oracle of Seasons'', which takes place 400 years after the events of the past in ''Oracle of Ages''. He might've made it back to Labrynna, sired an heir for Ambi, and then left for the voyage that ended up with him and his crew being shipwrecked.
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Doesn't seem like a headscratcher
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[[folder: Its a trap-errr ceremony!]]
Anyone else somewhat weirded out by Patch?
Now I can get past the whole "Old man living alone on a cliff" thing as there's another bloke doing the same thing on the exact same mountain and it's a common story trope in media. But there seems to be something rather devious about the man.
The fact he nearly calls his "Restoration Ceremony" a Trap. (To quote: "My Trap-err Ceremony.") Somewhat suggests that behind that goofy exterior that The Restoration Guru is a evil little bastard. Though that begs the question as to how it's a trap, since the shell beetles don't actually hurt you (providing they don't shove you down a hole). I feel there was going to be something else originally but the Dev's scrapped it and kept the "Trap" line in as an in-joke.
And more to point Why wasn't he the holder for the Mirror Shield secret instead of the library? It would of made much more sense that way.
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Anyone else somewhat weirded out by Patch?
Now I can get past the whole "Old man living alone on a cliff" thing as there's another bloke doing the same thing on the exact same mountain and it's a common story trope in media. But there seems to be something rather devious about the man.
The fact he nearly calls his "Restoration Ceremony" a Trap. (To quote: "My Trap-err Ceremony.") Somewhat suggests that behind that goofy exterior that The Restoration Guru is a evil little bastard. Though that begs the question as to how it's a trap, since the shell beetles don't actually hurt you (providing they don't shove you down a hole). I feel there was going to be something else originally but the Dev's scrapped it and kept the "Trap" line in as an in-joke.
And more to point Why wasn't he the holder for the Mirror Shield secret instead of the library? It would of made much more sense that way.
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Anyone else somewhat weirded out by Patch?
Now I can get past the whole "Old man living alone on a cliff" thing as there's another bloke doing the same thing on the exact same mountain and it's a common story trope in media. But there seems to be something rather devious about the man.
The fact he nearly calls his "Restoration Ceremony" a Trap. (To quote: "My Trap-err Ceremony.") Somewhat suggests that behind that goofy exterior that The Restoration Guru is a evil little bastard. Though that begs the question as to how it's a trap, since the shell beetles don't actually hurt you (providing they don't shove you down a hole). I feel there was going to be something else originally but the Dev's scrapped it and kept the "Trap" line in as an in-joke.
And more to point Why wasn't he the holder for the Mirror Shield secret instead of the library? It would of made much more sense that way.
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** I think we can just assume that the symbol is worn out of their alliances. Characters like Zant were known to do the same thing.
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[[folder: Connection to the Gerudo]]
Both Veran and Onox feature the crest of the Gerudo tribe on their clothing - Veran on her sleeves and Onox on his armor. They're definitely agents of Twinrova, given their stated goals. But how are they actually related to the Gerudo? ''Are'' they? Or did the witch sisters give them the mark after allying with them? Veran at least could be a Gerudo with her green skin and red hair, but her final boss fight throws that out the wind. [[spoiler:She's some kind of dark Great Fairy with shapeshifting magic.]] Onox, on the other hand, doesn't show very much skin to begin with but has a complexion similar to light skinned Hylians. [[spoiler:He's actually a dragon.]] So then, is it just their connection to Twinrova? Are they of the Gerudo tribe but not of the Gerudo race themselves? Are they formerly ethnically Gerudo but [[spoiler:took monstrous forms in the pursuit of power or destruction]]?
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** Link doesn't have any real power that she can make use of. Nayru can manipulate time (and possibly do other things) with her magic, and Ambi is a queen with hundreds of loyal followers. She didn't try to possess Link because he doesn't have any real way to influence events in her favor.
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* I assumed there was something in the design or makeup of the tower that would provide Veran with more of the "powers of shadow".
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** I assumed it was just by analogy with ''VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue'', with Seasons being red and Ages being blue.
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** It's probably a lot harder for two elderly Garudo women who are known to work for Ganon to infiltrate Hyrule Castle than it would be for a human-looking stranger who offers hope in a dark time.
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** Even someone in their early twenties could be called "kid," especially if they have a youthful appearance (and Hylians tend to).
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** This troper sees it in one of two ways. Either A: The Master Sword in Oracles Isn't canon. or B: The Holodrum/Labyrina Master Sword is not the same Sword of Evil's Bane. After all the design slightly differs on the crossguard despite the Master Sword's design being concrete at that point.
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** This in turn led to sorrow and depression from The workers themselves and The families and loved ones of the workers (One woman quotes how her Husband had been taken to work on the tower saying she may never see him again.) Which wasn't so much as Veran's plan as her role in the plot for Twinrova's Flame of Sorrow, which was fueled by the peoples sadness from these horrible changes and events.
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** Considering the games were originally going to be a Remake of Zelda 1. This is probably a callback to that considering Impa only appeared in the games Manual and not the game itself. Otherwise She does hold relevance as she's the earliest hint to Zelda's presence in the games (Linked ones anyway). Plus in Linked games She specifically say's that She was trying to smuggle the Oracles into Hyrule.
This can be more seen in Seasons Linked where the Troupe are revealed to be Hyrulian Knights in on the ruse.
This can be more seen in Seasons Linked where the Troupe are revealed to be Hyrulian Knights in on the ruse.
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There seems to be something rather devious about the man. The fact he nearly calls his "Restoration Ceremony" a Trap. To quote: "My Trap-err Ceremony." And more to point Why wasn't he the holder for the Mirror Shield secret instead of the libary? It would of made much more sense that way.
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Now I can get past the whole "Old man living alone on a cliff" thing as there's another bloke doing the same thing on the exact same mountain and it's a common story trope in media. But there seems to be something rather devious about the
The fact he nearly calls his "Restoration Ceremony" a Trap.
And more to point Why wasn't he the holder for the Mirror Shield secret instead of the
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Changed line(s) 137 (click to see context) from:
** For the record, [[https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/zelda_gamepedia_en/7/7c/Timeline_Hyrule_Historia.jpg?version=486893ab827a6ee61b29e785e68b42be Hyrule Historia's timeline page]] never truly lists them one after the other, just together as a duology in alphabetical sequence (Ages/Seasons). And the main reason Ages is considered to be the second half of the story is because of its end credits, which depicts [[http://www.zeldaelements.net/images/games/oracle_of_seasons/ending/24.png Link sailing away from Labrynna on a boat.]] The next entry in the timeline after these two games is [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaLinksAwakening Link's Awakening]], which starts off with the [[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-05-Large.png same Link]] [[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-04-Large.png in a boat.]]
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** For the record, [[https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/zelda_gamepedia_en/7/7c/Timeline_Hyrule_Historia.jpg?version=486893ab827a6ee61b29e785e68b42be Hyrule Historia's timeline page]] never truly lists them one after the other, just together as a duology in alphabetical sequence (Ages/Seasons). And the main reason Ages is considered to be the second half of the story is because of its end credits, which depicts [[http://www.zeldaelements.net/images/games/oracle_of_seasons/ending/24.png Link sailing away from Labrynna on a boat.]] The next entry in the timeline after these two games is [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaLinksAwakening Link's Awakening]], which starts off with the [[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-05-Large.png same Link]] Link]]
[[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-04-Large.png in a boat.]]]]
** Actually the scene with the boat happens in both games via Linked save file. There is neither a right or wrong way for the story to be told. While Ages>Seasons makes more sense I.E The Ambi subplot getting payoff. The Master Sword (assuming you upgraded your sword to level 2 Via secret) is in it's usual place of the lost woods (Albeit this troper doesnt think it's the same Master Sword). The Seasons>Ages route is probably considered "Canon" due to that's the route the Manga took. (Though I personally feel the build up of shit hitting the fan is better with the latter, Compare Onox not showing up again till the end of the game To The black tower arc (and by default Veran) being made worse with each passing dungeon.)
[[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-04-Large.png in a boat.
** Actually the scene with the boat happens in both games via Linked save file. There is neither a right or wrong way for the story to be told. While Ages>Seasons makes more sense I.E The Ambi subplot getting payoff. The Master Sword (assuming you upgraded your sword to level 2 Via secret) is in it's usual place of the lost woods (Albeit this troper doesnt think it's the same Master Sword). The Seasons>Ages route is probably considered "Canon" due to that's the route the Manga took. (Though I personally feel the build up of shit hitting the fan is better with the latter, Compare Onox not showing up again till the end of the game To The black tower arc (and by default Veran) being made worse with each passing dungeon.)
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[[folder: Its a trap-errr ceremony!]]
There seems to be something rather devious about the man. The fact he nearly calls his "Restoration Ceremony" a Trap. To quote: "My Trap-err Ceremony." And more to point Why wasn't he the holder for the Mirror Shield secret instead of the libary? It would of made much more sense that way.
[[/folder]]
There seems to be something rather devious about the man. The fact he nearly calls his "Restoration Ceremony" a Trap. To quote: "My Trap-err Ceremony." And more to point Why wasn't he the holder for the Mirror Shield secret instead of the libary? It would of made much more sense that way.
[[/folder]]
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Changed line(s) 137 (click to see context) from:
** For the record, [[https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/zelda_gamepedia_en/7/7c/Timeline_Hyrule_Historia.jpg?version=486893ab827a6ee61b29e785e68b42be Hyrule Historia's timeline page]] never truly lists them one after the other, just together as a duology in alphabetical sequence (A/S). And the main reason Ages is considered to be the second half of the story is because of its end credits, which depicts [[http://www.zeldaelements.net/images/games/oracle_of_seasons/ending/24.png Link sailing away from Labrynna on a boat.]] The next entry in the timeline after these two games is [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaLinksAwakening Link's Awakening]], which starts off with the [[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-05-Large.png same Link]] [[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-04-Large.png in a boat.]]
to:
** For the record, [[https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/zelda_gamepedia_en/7/7c/Timeline_Hyrule_Historia.jpg?version=486893ab827a6ee61b29e785e68b42be Hyrule Historia's timeline page]] never truly lists them one after the other, just together as a duology in alphabetical sequence (A/S).(Ages/Seasons). And the main reason Ages is considered to be the second half of the story is because of its end credits, which depicts [[http://www.zeldaelements.net/images/games/oracle_of_seasons/ending/24.png Link sailing away from Labrynna on a boat.]] The next entry in the timeline after these two games is [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaLinksAwakening Link's Awakening]], which starts off with the [[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-05-Large.png same Link]] [[https://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda04/Walkthrough/01/Intro-04-Large.png in a boat.]]
