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*** The Fireflies ''led'' the revolt in Pittsburgh, or at least made it possible. The civilians turned on them afterwards and turned to banditry because, in the words of one artifact, they weren't willing to "take orders from some Firefly leader all the way on the other side of the country." The quarantine zones do keep in touch with each other, so on paper, coordinating some kind of election to establish a less repressive government wouldn't be impossible (it would take a long time to bring isolationists like David's group and Bill into the fold, but they aren't a priority). In any case, just because the Fireflies are politically naive or hypocritical doesn't mean they don't have ideals; the Soviet Bolsheviks never got out of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" phase, either. A FullCircleRevolution is still a revolution.
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*** The Fireflies ''led'' the revolt in Pittsburgh, or at least made it possible. The civilians turned on them afterwards and turned reverted to banditry because, in the words of one artifact, they weren't willing to "take orders from some Firefly leader all the way on the other side of the country." The quarantine zones do keep in touch with each other, so on paper, coordinating some kind of election to establish a less repressive government wouldn't be impossible (it would take a long time to bring isolationists like David's group and Bill into the fold, but they aren't a priority). In any case, just because the Fireflies are politically naive or hypocritical doesn't mean they don't have ideals; the Soviet Bolsheviks never got out of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" phase, either. A FullCircleRevolution is still a revolution.
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** It's actually a Jackson City sign.
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*** Also they don't live in Austin proper. They're in a pretty rural area outside the city.
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*** How does that work, though? Are the Fireflies going to go the hunters in Pittsburgh and David's cannibal tribe and ask them to elect a leader? Is someone going around to Bill's place and asking who he votes for? Restoring the US government by putting your people in charge and keeping them there by force isn't exactly democracy. It's just changing one martial law to another.
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*** How does that work, though? Are the Fireflies going to go the hunters in Pittsburgh and David's cannibal tribe and ask them to elect a leader? Is someone going around to Bill's place and asking who he votes for? Restoring the US government by putting your people in charge and keeping them there by force isn't exactly democracy. It's just changing one martial law to another.another.
*** The Fireflies ''led'' the revolt in Pittsburgh, or at least made it possible. The civilians turned on them afterwards and turned to banditry because, in the words of one artifact, they weren't willing to "take orders from some Firefly leader all the way on the other side of the country." The quarantine zones do keep in touch with each other, so on paper, coordinating some kind of election to establish a less repressive government wouldn't be impossible (it would take a long time to bring isolationists like David's group and Bill into the fold, but they aren't a priority). In any case, just because the Fireflies are politically naive or hypocritical doesn't mean they don't have ideals; the Soviet Bolsheviks never got out of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" phase, either. A FullCircleRevolution is still a revolution.
*** The Fireflies ''led'' the revolt in Pittsburgh, or at least made it possible. The civilians turned on them afterwards and turned to banditry because, in the words of one artifact, they weren't willing to "take orders from some Firefly leader all the way on the other side of the country." The quarantine zones do keep in touch with each other, so on paper, coordinating some kind of election to establish a less repressive government wouldn't be impossible (it would take a long time to bring isolationists like David's group and Bill into the fold, but they aren't a priority). In any case, just because the Fireflies are politically naive or hypocritical doesn't mean they don't have ideals; the Soviet Bolsheviks never got out of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" phase, either. A FullCircleRevolution is still a revolution.
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** By overthrowing FEDRA and bringing back the United States government, which was only dissolved 20 years ago at most, easily within living memory. And given how corrupt and violent FEDRA is, they have a large pool of disgruntled civilians to draw from (they can also use FEDRA's corruption to their own advantage by bribing disaffected soldiers to get on board, when they have the resources). Marlene keeps up the propaganda via radio broadcasts, and developing a cure for the cordyceps independently would be a ''massive'' boost to their efforts, which is why they're continuing work on it when their numbers have dwindled to next to nothing. If Pittsburgh is any indication, liberating individual quarantine zones isn't even the hard part; the difficulty is in getting the civilian insurgents to stay loyal to the Firefly vision rather than just take care of their own.
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** By overthrowing FEDRA and bringing back the United States government, which was only dissolved 20 years ago at most, easily within living memory. And given how corrupt and violent FEDRA is, they have a large pool of disgruntled civilians to draw from (they can also use FEDRA's corruption to their own advantage by bribing disaffected soldiers to get on board, when they have the resources). Marlene keeps up the propaganda via radio broadcasts, and developing a cure for the cordyceps independently would be a ''massive'' boost to their efforts, which is why they're continuing work on it when their numbers have dwindled to next to nothing. If Pittsburgh is any indication, liberating individual quarantine zones isn't even the hard part; the difficulty is in getting the civilian insurgents to stay loyal to the Firefly vision rather than just take care of their own.own.
*** How does that work, though? Are the Fireflies going to go the hunters in Pittsburgh and David's cannibal tribe and ask them to elect a leader? Is someone going around to Bill's place and asking who he votes for? Restoring the US government by putting your people in charge and keeping them there by force isn't exactly democracy. It's just changing one martial law to another.
*** How does that work, though? Are the Fireflies going to go the hunters in Pittsburgh and David's cannibal tribe and ask them to elect a leader? Is someone going around to Bill's place and asking who he votes for? Restoring the US government by putting your people in charge and keeping them there by force isn't exactly democracy. It's just changing one martial law to another.
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* What do the Fireflies actually... do? We only ever hear about them starting riots, recruiting children, and blowing up one tank which probably did more harm than good for the people in the quarantine zone. What's their plan even? They say they want to "restore democracy" but how?
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* What do the Fireflies actually... do? We only ever hear about them starting riots, recruiting children, and blowing up one tank which probably did more harm than good for the people in the quarantine zone. What's their plan even? They say they want to "restore democracy" but how?how?
** By overthrowing FEDRA and bringing back the United States government, which was only dissolved 20 years ago at most, easily within living memory. And given how corrupt and violent FEDRA is, they have a large pool of disgruntled civilians to draw from (they can also use FEDRA's corruption to their own advantage by bribing disaffected soldiers to get on board, when they have the resources). Marlene keeps up the propaganda via radio broadcasts, and developing a cure for the cordyceps independently would be a ''massive'' boost to their efforts, which is why they're continuing work on it when their numbers have dwindled to next to nothing. If Pittsburgh is any indication, liberating individual quarantine zones isn't even the hard part; the difficulty is in getting the civilian insurgents to stay loyal to the Firefly vision rather than just take care of their own.
** By overthrowing FEDRA and bringing back the United States government, which was only dissolved 20 years ago at most, easily within living memory. And given how corrupt and violent FEDRA is, they have a large pool of disgruntled civilians to draw from (they can also use FEDRA's corruption to their own advantage by bribing disaffected soldiers to get on board, when they have the resources). Marlene keeps up the propaganda via radio broadcasts, and developing a cure for the cordyceps independently would be a ''massive'' boost to their efforts, which is why they're continuing work on it when their numbers have dwindled to next to nothing. If Pittsburgh is any indication, liberating individual quarantine zones isn't even the hard part; the difficulty is in getting the civilian insurgents to stay loyal to the Firefly vision rather than just take care of their own.
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*** The banner in the hotel explicitly says "Prom 2013".
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** It's actually a Jackson City sign.
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** [[spoiler: Short answer; Marlene doesn't understand Joel's personality, or his bond with Ellie, in the slightest. Long answer; she doesn't have control over when Joel will regain consciousness, but when he comes to, she does try to dismiss Joel's concerns at first by telling him he doesn't need to worry and that Ellie's been taken off his hands. When he persists, you can tell from Marlene's expression that she's been caught on the back foot, because she wasn't expecting Joel to even care enough to ''want'' to see Ellie that bad; if she lies now, that won't stop him from asking questions ("How did it happen? Where's her body?" or worse yet, depending on just how good a liar Marlene is, "I don't believe you. What really happened?") and could make the situation much uglier than it has to be. So she comes clean and tells him the truth in a straightforward manner to get the bad news out of the way and assert her authority as to how things are going to play out, expecting that Joel will be reasonable once he's been given a stern lecture (maybe even agree with her after he wises up). As mistakes go, they don't come much bigger, but to be completely fair to Marlene, the last time she saw Joel was almost a year ago. As far as Marlene knows, Joel's still just a hired smuggler who only knows Ellie as Firefly cargo, so from her perspective, it's ''presumptuous'' for him to act as though his attachment to Ellie could be stronger than her own, or that he could know what's in Ellie's best interests. As to your other questions, Marlene was as surprised as anyone else when she realized removing the parasite would kill Ellie, so she's only recently gotten the news herself when Joel wakes up. They probably wanted to keep Ellie alive on the operating table for as long as possible under the assumption that killing her would damage her brain (and the parasite) beyond use. ArtisticLicenseBiology either in-universe or out.]]
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** [[spoiler: Short answer; Marlene doesn't understand Joel's personality, or his bond with Ellie, in the slightest. Long answer; she doesn't have control over when Joel will regain consciousness, but when he comes to, she does try to dismiss Joel's concerns at first by telling him he doesn't need to worry and that Ellie's been taken off his hands. When he persists, you can tell from Marlene's expression that she's been caught on the back foot, because she wasn't expecting Joel to even care enough to ''want'' to see Ellie that bad; if she lies now, that won't stop him from asking questions ("How did it happen? Where's her body?" or worse yet, depending on just how good a liar Marlene is, "I don't believe you. What really happened?") and could make the situation much uglier than it has to be. So she comes clean and tells him the truth in a straightforward manner to get the bad news out of the way and assert her authority as to how things are going to play out, expecting that Joel will be reasonable once he's been given a stern lecture (maybe even agree with her after he wises up). As mistakes go, they don't come much bigger, but to be completely fair to Marlene, the last time she saw Joel was almost a year ago. As far as Marlene knows, Joel's still just a hired smuggler who only knows Ellie as Firefly cargo, so from her perspective, it's ''presumptuous'' for him to act as though his attachment to Ellie could be stronger than her own, or that he could know what's in Ellie's best interests. As to your other questions, Marlene was as surprised as anyone else when she realized removing the parasite would kill Ellie, so she's only recently gotten the news herself when Joel wakes up. They probably wanted to keep Ellie alive on the operating table for as long as possible under the assumption that killing her would damage her brain (and the parasite) beyond use. ArtisticLicenseBiology either in-universe or out.]]]]
* What do the Fireflies actually... do? We only ever hear about them starting riots, recruiting children, and blowing up one tank which probably did more harm than good for the people in the quarantine zone. What's their plan even? They say they want to "restore democracy" but how?
* What do the Fireflies actually... do? We only ever hear about them starting riots, recruiting children, and blowing up one tank which probably did more harm than good for the people in the quarantine zone. What's their plan even? They say they want to "restore democracy" but how?
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*** In 1993 no less. Plus he's a construction worker. He could presumably buy a fixer-upper and do the work himself.
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*** In 1993 2013 no less. Plus he's a construction worker. He could presumably buy a fixer-upper and do the work himself.
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*** In 1993 no less. Plus he's a construction worker. He could presumably buy a fixer-upper and do the work himself.
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** The fungus grows around the brain, and so there probably wouldn't be enough of it in her blood stream to make a vaccine.
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** It seems as though the hunters in Pittsburgh ''do'' try to hunt wildlife when they can, since one of them can be seen trying to shoot crows; ambushing tourists is probably a supplement. Farming in the suburbs doesn't seem to be particularly viable due to all the infected that seem to lurk outside the city boundaries, and a lot of the hunters probably wouldn't know how to farm anyway, if they had any inclination to. As for David's group, they're also perfectly willing to hunt, but there are a lot of infected to contend with, and game really doesn't seem all that plentiful; Ellie herself only managed to find a rabbit and a deer that David and James were eager to get their hands on. Tommy's group has prime real estate on their side thanks to the presence of a hydroelectric dam and easily defendable patches of fertile land, as well as a general lack of infected in the area. Plus, they have good people on their side; the game explores how different people deal with the apocalypse, and Pittsburgh and David's settlement explore how assholes deal with it.
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** It seems as though the hunters in Pittsburgh ''do'' try to hunt wildlife when they can, since one of them can be seen trying to shoot crows; ambushing tourists is probably a supplement. Farming in the suburbs doesn't seem to be particularly viable due to all the infected that seem to lurk outside the city boundaries, and a lot of the hunters probably wouldn't know how to farm anyway, if they had any inclination to. As for David's group, they're also perfectly willing to hunt, but there are a lot of infected to contend with, and game really doesn't seem all that plentiful; Ellie herself only managed to find a rabbit and a deer that David and James were eager to get their hands on. Tommy's group has prime real estate on their side thanks to the presence of a hydroelectric dam and easily defendable patches of fertile land, as well as a general lack of infected in the area. Plus, they have good people on their side; with them; the game explores how different people deal with the apocalypse, and Pittsburgh and David's settlement explore how assholes deal with it.
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* Why Does Ellie need to be dissected to get a vaccine? Wouldn’t it be simpler to get a vaccine by taking a blood sample and copying it?
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** This is potentially explained in the sequel: [[spoiler: The head Firefly surgeon is also an animal lover, and he attempts to care for the wildlife escaped from the zoo.]]
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*** "Pet" is a term that can easily have sexual connotations in the right context, and it probably signifies something more than just "someone David won't eat." He's not a cannibal, or even a murderer, as a matter of course; he's trying to keep his group fed in a situation that resembles the colonial [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starving_Time Starving Time]]. Since David is heavily implied to be religious, it's not a stretch to assume he has a very patriarchal view of gender roles, which could include WifeHusbandry. There's a lot to his demeanor overall that indicates he's attracted to Ellie, and she comes away deeply disturbed by her encounter with him in a way that goes beyond what you'd get from fighting off someone just trying to kill you (which Ellie is no stranger to). Due to the controversial subject matter, they probably wanted to avoid being too overt, but the implications are there nonetheless.
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** It seems as though the hunters in Pittsburgh ''do'' try to hunt wildlife when they can, since one of them can be seen trying to shoot crows; ambushing tourists is probably a supplement. Farming in the suburbs doesn't seem to be particularly viable due to all the infected that seem to lurk outside the city boundaries, and a lot of the hunters probably wouldn't know how to farm anyway, if they had any inclination to. As for David's group, they're also perfectly willing to hunt, but there a lot of infected to contend with, and game really doesn't seem all that plentiful; Ellie herself only managed to find a rabbit and a deer that David and James were eager to get their hands on. Tommy's group has prime real estate on their side thanks to the presence of a hydroelectric dam and easily defendable patches of fertile land, as well as a general lack of infected in the area. Plus, they have good people on their side; the game explores how different people deal with the apocalypse, and Pittsburgh and David's settlement explore how assholes deal with it.
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** It seems as though the hunters in Pittsburgh ''do'' try to hunt wildlife when they can, since one of them can be seen trying to shoot crows; ambushing tourists is probably a supplement. Farming in the suburbs doesn't seem to be particularly viable due to all the infected that seem to lurk outside the city boundaries, and a lot of the hunters probably wouldn't know how to farm anyway, if they had any inclination to. As for David's group, they're also perfectly willing to hunt, but there are a lot of infected to contend with, and game really doesn't seem all that plentiful; Ellie herself only managed to find a rabbit and a deer that David and James were eager to get their hands on. Tommy's group has prime real estate on their side thanks to the presence of a hydroelectric dam and easily defendable patches of fertile land, as well as a general lack of infected in the area. Plus, they have good people on their side; the game explores how different people deal with the apocalypse, and Pittsburgh and David's settlement explore how assholes deal with it.
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*** " So let me get this straight: your argument is that there's no point in saving ''anyone'', unless ''everyone'' can be saved, immediately and at the same time... therefore Joel is a hypocrite for saving Ellie? Remind me never to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality get trapped in a bucket]] with you." No idiot, the point is that it is impossible to develop a vaccine and a better way to save everyone would be to let Ellie survive and pass on her genetic immunity to a new generation, which is how human beings survived other diseases before vaccines! Are you saying that instead of letting Ellie live and pass on her immunity to a new generation, thus guaranteeing our survival as a species, you would rather have some terrorists play doctor and try to accomplish the impossible: create a vaccine for fungus - something even modern doctors haven't accomplished (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5ulX06McSY&t=607s) for the vague hope of saving yourself? You're right -[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality I wouldn't want to be in a bucket with your selfish butt!!]]
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Changed line(s) 42 (click to see context) from:
*** " So let me get this straight: your argument is that there's no point in saving ''anyone'', unless ''everyone'' can be saved, immediately and at the same time... therefore Joel is a hypocrite for saving Ellie? Remind me never to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality get trapped in a bucket]] with you." No idiot, the point is that it is impossible to develop a vaccine and a better way to save everyone would be to let Ellie survive and pass on her genetic immunity to a new generation, which is how human beings survived other diseases before vaccines! Are you saying that instead of letting Ellie live and pass on her immunity to a new generation, thus guaranteeing our survival as a species, you would rather have some terrorists play doctor and try to accomplish the impossible: create a vaccine for fungus - something even modern doctors haven't accomplished (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5ulX06McSY&t=607s) for the vague hope of saving yourself? You're right -[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality get trapped in a bucket]] I wouldn't want to be in a bucket with your selfish butt!!]]
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*** " So let me get this straight: your argument is that there's no point in saving ''anyone'', unless ''everyone'' can be saved, immediately and at the same time... therefore Joel is a hypocrite for saving Ellie? Remind me never to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality get trapped in a bucket]] with you." No idiot, the point is that it is impossible to develop a vaccine and a better way to save everyone would be to let Ellie survive and pass on her genetic immunity to a new generation, which is how human beings survived other diseases before vaccines! Are you saying that instead of letting Ellie live and pass on her immunity to a new generation, thus guaranteeing our survival as a species, you would rather have some terrorists play doctor and try to accomplish the impossible: create a vaccine for fungus - something even modern doctors haven't accomplished (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5ulX06McSY&t=607s) for the vague hope of saving yourself? You're right -[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality get trapped in a bucket]] I wouldn't want to be in a bucket with your selfish butt!!]]butt!!]]
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Changed line(s) 42 (click to see context) from:
*** " So let me get this straight: your argument is that there's no point in saving ''anyone'', unless ''everyone'' can be saved, immediately and at the same time... therefore Joel is a hypocrite for saving Ellie? Remind me never to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality get trapped in a bucket]] with you." No idiot, the point is that it is impossible to develop a vaccine and a better way to save everyone would be to let Ellie survive and pass on her genetic immunity to a new generation, which is how human beings survived other diseases before vaccines! Are you saying that instead of letting Ellie live and pass on her immunity to a new generation, thus guaranteeing our survival as a species, you would rather have some terrorists play doctor and try to accomplish the impossible: create a vaccine for fungus - something even modern doctors haven't accomplished (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5ulX06McSY&t=607s) for the vague hope of saving yourself? You're right -[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality get trapped in a bucket]] I wouldn't want to be in a bucket with your selfish butt!!]]
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***" So let me get this straight: your argument is that there's no point in saving ''anyone'', unless ''everyone'' can be saved, immediately and at the same time... therefore Joel is a hypocrite for saving Ellie? Remind me never to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality get trapped in a bucket]] with you." No idiot, the point is that it is impossible to develop a vaccine and a better way to save everyone would be to let Ellie survive and pass on her genetic immunity to a new generation, which is how human beings survived other diseases before vaccines! Are you saying that instead of letting Ellie live and pass on her immunity to a new generation, thus guaranteeing our survival as a species, you would rather have some terrorists play doctor and try to accomplish the impossible: create a vaccine for fungus - something even modern doctors haven't accomplished (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5ulX06McSY&t=607s) for the vague hope of saving yourself? You're right -[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality get trapped in a bucket]] I wouldn't want to be in a bucket with your selfish butt!!]]
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*Bill hands Joel a pipe to get gas from cars for a survival expert surely he would know that fuel goes out of date after 2-3 years and doesn't work*
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* [[spoiler:Given that they needed to extract Ellie's brain to develop the vaccine, why did the Fireflies bother reviving her after almost drowning? If they did tests before realising that they needed to remove her brain, why not just tell Joel that she was dead instead of that she was still alive? Marlene said that she wanted to let him live since he was the only other person who understood the weight of the choice, but she could have easily told him that Ellie had died and that they'd done what they needed, instead of pissing off a heavily armed man who'd shown himself capable, even before leaving Boston, of killing dozens of people with a fraction of his current equipment. Hell, why not just keep him prisoner until at least Ellie's brain had been extracted, so that he wouldn't be able to interfere. On that note, why did Ellie even need to be alive for the surgery given that she'd die as soon as her brain got cut out in the first place? They could have easily given her a quick and painless death and then extracted her brain given that she was unconscious for the whole time she was at the hospital. It would have been as simple as giving her an overdose, which could have been done before she even got to the theatre, and it'd be easier to pacify Joel if he wanted revenge than it would be if he still had a chance to save Ellie. Instead, they left the whole operation open to sabotage- if she didn't chase Joel down and try to kill him to stop him escaping with Ellie, I'd think that Marlene wanted him to interfere so that she wouldn't have to live with the guilt of saving Ellie herself.]]
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* [[spoiler:Given that they needed to extract Ellie's brain to develop the vaccine, why did the Fireflies bother reviving her after almost drowning? If they did tests before realising that they needed to remove her brain, why not just tell Joel that she was dead instead of that she was still alive? Marlene said that she wanted to let him live since he was the only other person who understood the weight of the choice, but she could have easily told him that Ellie had died and that they'd done what they needed, instead of pissing off a heavily armed man who'd shown himself capable, even before leaving Boston, of killing dozens of people with a fraction of his current equipment. Hell, why not just keep him prisoner until at least Ellie's brain had been extracted, so that he wouldn't be able to interfere. On that note, why did Ellie even need to be alive for the surgery given that she'd die as soon as her brain got cut out in the first place? They could have easily given her a quick and painless death and then extracted her brain given that she was unconscious for the whole time she was at the hospital. It would have been as simple as giving her an overdose, which could have been done before she even got to the theatre, and it'd be easier to pacify Joel if he wanted revenge than it would be if he still had a chance to save Ellie. Instead, they left the whole operation open to sabotage- if she didn't chase Joel down and try to kill him to stop him escaping with Ellie, I'd think that Marlene wanted him to interfere so that she wouldn't have to live with the guilt of saving Ellie herself.]]
** [[spoiler: Short answer; Marlene doesn't understand Joel's personality, or his bond with Ellie, in the slightest. Long answer; she doesn't have control over when Joel will regain consciousness, but when he comes to, she does try to dismiss Joel's concerns at first by telling him he doesn't need to worry and that Ellie's been taken off his hands. When he persists, you can tell from Marlene's expression that she's been caught on the back foot, because she wasn't expecting Joel to even care enough to ''want'' to see Ellie that bad; if she lies now, that won't stop him from asking questions ("How did it happen? Where's her body?" or worse yet, depending on just how good a liar Marlene is, "I don't believe you. What really happened?") and could make the situation much uglier than it has to be. So she comes clean and tells him the truth in a straightforward manner to get the bad news out of the way and assert her authority as to how things are going to play out, expecting that Joel will be reasonable once he's been given a stern lecture (maybe even agree with her after he wises up). As mistakes go, they don't come much bigger, but to be completely fair to Marlene, the last time she saw Joel was almost a year ago. As far as Marlene knows, Joel's still just a hired smuggler who only knows Ellie as Firefly cargo, so from her perspective, it's ''presumptuous'' for him to act as though his attachment to Ellie could be stronger than her own, or that he could know what's in Ellie's best interests. As to your other questions, Marlene was as surprised as anyone else when she realized removing the parasite would kill Ellie, so she's only recently gotten the news herself when Joel wakes up. They probably wanted to keep Ellie alive on the operating table for as long as possible under the assumption that killing her would damage her brain (and the parasite) beyond use. ArtisticLicenseBiology either in-universe or out.]]
** [[spoiler: Short answer; Marlene doesn't understand Joel's personality, or his bond with Ellie, in the slightest. Long answer; she doesn't have control over when Joel will regain consciousness, but when he comes to, she does try to dismiss Joel's concerns at first by telling him he doesn't need to worry and that Ellie's been taken off his hands. When he persists, you can tell from Marlene's expression that she's been caught on the back foot, because she wasn't expecting Joel to even care enough to ''want'' to see Ellie that bad; if she lies now, that won't stop him from asking questions ("How did it happen? Where's her body?" or worse yet, depending on just how good a liar Marlene is, "I don't believe you. What really happened?") and could make the situation much uglier than it has to be. So she comes clean and tells him the truth in a straightforward manner to get the bad news out of the way and assert her authority as to how things are going to play out, expecting that Joel will be reasonable once he's been given a stern lecture (maybe even agree with her after he wises up). As mistakes go, they don't come much bigger, but to be completely fair to Marlene, the last time she saw Joel was almost a year ago. As far as Marlene knows, Joel's still just a hired smuggler who only knows Ellie as Firefly cargo, so from her perspective, it's ''presumptuous'' for him to act as though his attachment to Ellie could be stronger than her own, or that he could know what's in Ellie's best interests. As to your other questions, Marlene was as surprised as anyone else when she realized removing the parasite would kill Ellie, so she's only recently gotten the news herself when Joel wakes up. They probably wanted to keep Ellie alive on the operating table for as long as possible under the assumption that killing her would damage her brain (and the parasite) beyond use. ArtisticLicenseBiology either in-universe or out.]]
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* [[spoiler:Given that they needed to extract Ellie's brain to develop the vaccine, why did the Fireflies bother reviving her after almost drowning? If they did tests before realising that they needed to remove her brain, why not just tell Joel that she was dead instead of that she was still alive? Marlene said that she wanted to let him live since he was the only other person who understood the weight of the choice, but she could have easily told him that Ellie had died and that they'd done what they needed, instead of pissing off a heavily armed man who'd shown himself capable, even before leaving Boston, of killing dozens of people with a fraction of his current equipment. Hell, why not just keep him prisoner until at least Ellie's brain had been extracted, so that he wouldn't be able to interfere. Hell, why did Ellie even need to be alive for the surgery given that she'd die as soon as her brain got cut out in the first place? They could have easily given her a quick and painless death and then extracted her brain given that she was unconscious for the whole time she was at the hospital. It would have been as simple as giving her an overdose, which could have been done before she even got to the theatre. Instead, they left the whole operation open to sabotage- if she didn't chase Joel down and try to kill him to stop him escaping with Ellie, I'd think that Marlene wanted him to interfere so that she wouldn't have to live with the guilt of saving Ellie herself.]]
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* [[spoiler:Given that they needed to extract Ellie's brain to develop the vaccine, why did the Fireflies bother reviving her after almost drowning? If they did tests before realising that they needed to remove her brain, why not just tell Joel that she was dead instead of that she was still alive? Marlene said that she wanted to let him live since he was the only other person who understood the weight of the choice, but she could have easily told him that Ellie had died and that they'd done what they needed, instead of pissing off a heavily armed man who'd shown himself capable, even before leaving Boston, of killing dozens of people with a fraction of his current equipment. Hell, why not just keep him prisoner until at least Ellie's brain had been extracted, so that he wouldn't be able to interfere. Hell, On that note, why did Ellie even need to be alive for the surgery given that she'd die as soon as her brain got cut out in the first place? They could have easily given her a quick and painless death and then extracted her brain given that she was unconscious for the whole time she was at the hospital. It would have been as simple as giving her an overdose, which could have been done before she even got to the theatre.theatre, and it'd be easier to pacify Joel if he wanted revenge than it would be if he still had a chance to save Ellie. Instead, they left the whole operation open to sabotage- if she didn't chase Joel down and try to kill him to stop him escaping with Ellie, I'd think that Marlene wanted him to interfere so that she wouldn't have to live with the guilt of saving Ellie herself.]]
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Changed line(s) 218 (click to see context) from:
** [[spoiler: Ellie wakes up from anesthesia in the back seat of the car Joel's driving, in a hospital gown. Why would ''any'' of that be happening if Joel's story was true? If the Fireflies had stopped looking for a cure before she and Joel arrived, they would've simply kept Ellie comfortable until she regained consciousness on her own and then explained the situation themselves, just like they did with Joel. At most, they might've taken a token blood sample from her afterwards. If for some reason they ''did'' feel compelled to dress her up and put her on the operating table without giving her the chance to wake up and agree to it first (they've mostly given up hope for a cure; what's the rush?), they still would've let her wake up after they tested her, given her her clothes back, and since they would presumably be on friendly or at least neutral terms with her and Joel in this scenario, given them some gear to take with them before they left in the car. There's just no way Ellie and Joel would've driven off in the slipshod, big-ass hurry they obviously did unless something ''really bad'' happened. Ellie's more than smart enough to put those pieces together, and it's quite likely that Joel doesn't expect her to believe his lie anyway.]]
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** [[spoiler: Ellie wakes up from anesthesia in the back seat of the car Joel's driving, in a hospital gown. Why would ''any'' of that be happening if Joel's story was true? If the Fireflies had stopped looking for a cure before she and Joel arrived, they would've simply kept Ellie comfortable until she regained consciousness on her own and then explained the situation themselves, just like they did with Joel. At most, they might've taken a token blood sample from her afterwards. If for some reason they ''did'' feel compelled to dress her up and put her on the operating table without giving her the chance to wake up and agree to it first (they've mostly given up hope for a cure; what's the rush?), they still would've let her wake up after they tested her, given her her clothes back, and since they would presumably be on friendly or at least neutral terms with her and Joel in this scenario, given them some gear to take with them before they left in the car. There's just no way Ellie and Joel would've driven off in the slipshod, big-ass hurry they obviously did unless something ''really bad'' happened. Ellie's more than smart enough to put those pieces together, and it's quite likely that Joel doesn't expect her to believe his lie anyway.]]
* [[spoiler:Given that they needed to extract Ellie's brain to develop the vaccine, why did the Fireflies bother reviving her after almost drowning? If they did tests before realising that they needed to remove her brain, why not just tell Joel that she was dead instead of that she was still alive? Marlene said that she wanted to let him live since he was the only other person who understood the weight of the choice, but she could have easily told him that Ellie had died and that they'd done what they needed, instead of pissing off a heavily armed man who'd shown himself capable, even before leaving Boston, of killing dozens of people with a fraction of his current equipment. Hell, why not just keep him prisoner until at least Ellie's brain had been extracted, so that he wouldn't be able to interfere. Hell, why did Ellie even need to be alive for the surgery given that she'd die as soon as her brain got cut out in the first place? They could have easily given her a quick and painless death and then extracted her brain given that she was unconscious for the whole time she was at the hospital. It would have been as simple as giving her an overdose, which could have been done before she even got to the theatre. Instead, they left the whole operation open to sabotage- if she didn't chase Joel down and try to kill him to stop him escaping with Ellie, I'd think that Marlene wanted him to interfere so that she wouldn't have to live with the guilt of saving Ellie herself.]]
* [[spoiler:Given that they needed to extract Ellie's brain to develop the vaccine, why did the Fireflies bother reviving her after almost drowning? If they did tests before realising that they needed to remove her brain, why not just tell Joel that she was dead instead of that she was still alive? Marlene said that she wanted to let him live since he was the only other person who understood the weight of the choice, but she could have easily told him that Ellie had died and that they'd done what they needed, instead of pissing off a heavily armed man who'd shown himself capable, even before leaving Boston, of killing dozens of people with a fraction of his current equipment. Hell, why not just keep him prisoner until at least Ellie's brain had been extracted, so that he wouldn't be able to interfere. Hell, why did Ellie even need to be alive for the surgery given that she'd die as soon as her brain got cut out in the first place? They could have easily given her a quick and painless death and then extracted her brain given that she was unconscious for the whole time she was at the hospital. It would have been as simple as giving her an overdose, which could have been done before she even got to the theatre. Instead, they left the whole operation open to sabotage- if she didn't chase Joel down and try to kill him to stop him escaping with Ellie, I'd think that Marlene wanted him to interfere so that she wouldn't have to live with the guilt of saving Ellie herself.]]
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Changed line(s) 217 (click to see context) from:
* In the ending, WordOfGod is that Ellie knows [[spoiler:Joel is lying to her about there being other people immune to the disease, and therefore she can't trust him anymore and hates that she wasn't allowed to make the choice herself whether to sacrifice herself for the cure]]. But how could she know that? She [[spoiler:was unconscious throughout their ENTIRE encounter with the Fireflies, and never once met any of them or had any exposure to their research notes and records beyond was they found in the university. If Joel truly knows something she doesn't, what basis does she have for doubting him?]]
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* In the ending, WordOfGod is that Ellie knows [[spoiler:Joel is lying to her about there being other people immune to the disease, and therefore she can't trust him anymore and hates that she wasn't allowed to make the choice herself whether to sacrifice herself for the cure]]. But how could she know that? She [[spoiler:was unconscious throughout their ENTIRE encounter with the Fireflies, and never once met any of them or had any exposure to their research notes and records beyond was they found in the university. If Joel truly knows something she doesn't, what basis does she have for doubting him?]]him?]]
** [[spoiler: Ellie wakes up from anesthesia in the back seat of the car Joel's driving, in a hospital gown. Why would ''any'' of that be happening if Joel's story was true? If the Fireflies had stopped looking for a cure before she and Joel arrived, they would've simply kept Ellie comfortable until she regained consciousness on her own and then explained the situation themselves, just like they did with Joel. At most, they might've taken a token blood sample from her afterwards. If for some reason they ''did'' feel compelled to dress her up and put her on the operating table without giving her the chance to wake up and agree to it first (they've mostly given up hope for a cure; what's the rush?), they still would've let her wake up after they tested her, given her her clothes back, and since they would presumably be on friendly or at least neutral terms with her and Joel in this scenario, given them some gear to take with them before they left in the car. There's just no way Ellie and Joel would've driven off in the slipshod, big-ass hurry they obviously did unless something ''really bad'' happened. Ellie's more than smart enough to put those pieces together, and it's quite likely that Joel doesn't expect her to believe his lie anyway.]]
** [[spoiler: Ellie wakes up from anesthesia in the back seat of the car Joel's driving, in a hospital gown. Why would ''any'' of that be happening if Joel's story was true? If the Fireflies had stopped looking for a cure before she and Joel arrived, they would've simply kept Ellie comfortable until she regained consciousness on her own and then explained the situation themselves, just like they did with Joel. At most, they might've taken a token blood sample from her afterwards. If for some reason they ''did'' feel compelled to dress her up and put her on the operating table without giving her the chance to wake up and agree to it first (they've mostly given up hope for a cure; what's the rush?), they still would've let her wake up after they tested her, given her her clothes back, and since they would presumably be on friendly or at least neutral terms with her and Joel in this scenario, given them some gear to take with them before they left in the car. There's just no way Ellie and Joel would've driven off in the slipshod, big-ass hurry they obviously did unless something ''really bad'' happened. Ellie's more than smart enough to put those pieces together, and it's quite likely that Joel doesn't expect her to believe his lie anyway.]]
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Changed line(s) 152 (click to see context) from:
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*** Who has sex with their pets? When I played the game, I interpreted the term "pet" to mean someone David treats specially, refuses to kill and cut up for food, etc. - and nothing more. He certainly respects Ellie's skills and her dedication to Joel, and someone like that is unquestionably a great addition to a struggling tribe, if you can woo them to join. I never once got the impression that he was interested in her physically or romantically, and even the supposed "rape" scene comes at the tail end of him stabbing her, slashing at her, kicking her, verbally abusing her, and trying to choke her. He's furious and wants to kill her, not have sex with her.
Changed line(s) 214 (click to see context) from:
* As I mentioned before most of the hospital equipment in the Fireflies lab was likely broken down so how the heck do they know that Ellie is immune because she has a mutated strain, is it just their best guess?
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* As I mentioned before most of the hospital equipment in the Fireflies lab was likely broken down so how the heck do they know that Ellie is immune because she has a mutated strain, is it just their best guess?guess?
* In the ending, WordOfGod is that Ellie knows [[spoiler:Joel is lying to her about there being other people immune to the disease, and therefore she can't trust him anymore and hates that she wasn't allowed to make the choice herself whether to sacrifice herself for the cure]]. But how could she know that? She [[spoiler:was unconscious throughout their ENTIRE encounter with the Fireflies, and never once met any of them or had any exposure to their research notes and records beyond was they found in the university. If Joel truly knows something she doesn't, what basis does she have for doubting him?]]
* In the ending, WordOfGod is that Ellie knows [[spoiler:Joel is lying to her about there being other people immune to the disease, and therefore she can't trust him anymore and hates that she wasn't allowed to make the choice herself whether to sacrifice herself for the cure]]. But how could she know that? She [[spoiler:was unconscious throughout their ENTIRE encounter with the Fireflies, and never once met any of them or had any exposure to their research notes and records beyond was they found in the university. If Joel truly knows something she doesn't, what basis does she have for doubting him?]]
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Changed line(s) 212 (click to see context) from:
* Would a herd of Giraffes really be able to survive for over a decade in north America? I know nature is reclaiming the city and all that, but I would have thought Giraffe's would require a more specialized diet (not to mention being a prime and easy to spot food source for any hungry group of humans that cross their path).
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* Would a herd of Giraffes really be able to survive for over a decade in north America? I know nature is reclaiming the city and all that, but I would have thought Giraffe's would require a more specialized diet (not to mention being a prime and easy to spot food source for any hungry group of humans that cross their path).path).
* As I mentioned before most of the hospital equipment in the Fireflies lab was likely broken down so how the heck do they know that Ellie is immune because she has a mutated strain, is it just their best guess?
* As I mentioned before most of the hospital equipment in the Fireflies lab was likely broken down so how the heck do they know that Ellie is immune because she has a mutated strain, is it just their best guess?
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Changed line(s) 124 (click to see context) from:
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** In regards to realism, whenever you're injured, whether it's being shot, punched, clawed at, burnt etc, you heal either with a quick snack or by wrapping a specific part of your forearm. There is a point where realism falls down to make the game a little simpler to make/play.
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Changed line(s) 52 (click to see context) from:
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**** It's possible in the modern day, but there is hardly any functioning technology anymore, certainly the fireflies don't have the technology to properly perform the aforementioned surgery.
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Renamed trope
Changed line(s) 109 (click to see context) from:
*** So, the reason that Ellie hasn't turned, and the reason [[spoiler:the Fireflies want to cut out her brain to make a "vaccine", is because her Cordyceps Brain Infection is symbiotic instead of parasitic; she's not unique, her ''infection'' is - basically the CBI equivalent of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowpox Cowpox]]. Doesn't that mean that her infection is '''itself''' the vaccine? The Fireflies [[YouFailBiologyForever Fail Biology Forever]].]]
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*** So, the reason that Ellie hasn't turned, and the reason [[spoiler:the Fireflies want to cut out her brain to make a "vaccine", is because her Cordyceps Brain Infection is symbiotic instead of parasitic; she's not unique, her ''infection'' is - basically the CBI equivalent of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowpox Cowpox]]. Doesn't that mean that her infection is '''itself''' the vaccine? The Fireflies [[YouFailBiologyForever [[ArtisticLicenseBiology Fail Biology Forever]].]]
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Changed line(s) 187,188 (click to see context) from:
* A Latin one, actually; [[MeangingfulName It means 'tough skin'.]]
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Changed line(s) 187 (click to see context) from:
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* A Latin one, actually; [[MeangingfulName It means 'tough skin'.]]
