History Headscratchers / TengenToppaGurrenLagann

** The gunmen were considered inferior to the Grapearls. To them, it was something along the lines of "I've got this Desert Eagle .50 cal so why should I bother with this flintlock?" Really, they're lucky the mechanic who got that job (can't remember her name) decided to not to that. Otherwise they'd have been screwed. Now that I think about it, maybe Rossiu knew she wouldn't scrap them which is exactly why he gave her that job. Maybe Rossiu is more of a BadAss, CrazyPrepared {{Chessmaster}} then we think.

* Alright, so the Spiral King is a WellIntentionedExtremist. And FridgeBrilliance suggests the reason he discards his children is because [[spoiler:they could become the Anti-Spiral's messengers.]] In that case, why bother with the kids? [[HeWhoFightsMonsters Has he become as cold as the Anti-Spirals?]] [[AManIsNotAVirgin Does he just need to have sex?]]

** First: The {{Aesop}} isn't really that fantastic. You've already read what I've had to say about that at the top of the page though. Second: It still comes down to the fact that the choice isn't just personal, it would effect more than yourself in such a situation. Really, if there was even the smallest chance that I could save her, I'd go through hell [[LikeABadAssOutOfHell and back]]. You're right though, it's a redundant argument considering that the chances of something like this coming up is nigh impossible.

** Waaaaait, heat death? Are you sure you're not confusing this with ''PuellaMagiMadokaMagica''?

1) Anti-spirals die, all "anti-spiral" energy is cut off leading to their creations turning off or self-destructing if they need the energy to be maintained.
2) Nia can use spiral energy to suppliment this, but as we see she "fades" before the Anti-Spiral King is even defeated, already coming to terms she is going to die if the ASK is killed. Basically, she is going against the principle of spiral energy by accepting defeat/death.
3) Nia keeps willing to live, willing to exist to marry Simon. Marriage occurs, she gives up, and thus cuts the spiral energy umbilical cord she was providing for herself. All goals achieved, she dies.

Isn't it odd how's Nia's Ring didn't fade away, while she and what she was wearing did? I highly doubt that it was solely because the stone in the ring was of solidified Spiral Power, cause if she just a virtual human of the Anti-Spiral, why did her clothes fade with her, cause I doubt that they were of Anti-Spiral creation too. Just a theory, but can this be proof that Nia still exist in a way that Simon could find her again?

Isn't it odd how's Nia's Ring didn't fade away, while she and what she was wearing did? I highly doubt that it was solely because the stone in the ring was of solidified Spiral Power, cause if she just a virtual human of the Anti-Spiral, why did her clothes fade with her, cause I doubt that they were of Anti-Spiral creation too.

*** It's a church that worships a gunmen. Who knows what practices they have?

*** The scene goes Gimmy asks why not bring the dead back, Yoko tells him Simon isn't god, and Simon explaining why it's alright the dead don't come back.

** I agree with you. The very fact that it was somehow necessary to have Nia die and make Simon walk the Earth is a bad move in the story and by the writers. For the story outside the Aesop, the death was wrong because it ends the story on a DownerEnding disguised as a message to move on. It removes the aspect of a proper narrative towards an acceptable climax and causes the ending to falter into a very depressing move for the audience. Narratively, StudioGainax has done this before; ruined a good ending after everything is achieved-when it would make sense. To add to that fact alongside the additions from the movie, it is rather clear they either have no respect for Nia, or no respect for her archetype; a strong-willed and incredibly sweet female characters. Add alongside the fact [[spoiler: that she established her eternal love for Simon early, then used RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil in a truly disgusting way by the Not-In-Character Anti-Spirals against this character, and finally kill her off in the end after all the shit they did!?]]. Even using that hated Trope was WRONG, and it should have NEVER been used in terms of her or any character! This is the prime reason I absolutely refuse to see the second movie, and also the prime reason why I feel she should have been allowed to live only based on the original anime itself. Nia's forced death was not only a message detracting the NiceGirl and GirlNextDoor, but it also reeked of a festering, immoral and completely disrespectful notion towards all character-based narrative. Her life meant more than that, dammit.

*** In the first episode, the village chief actually refers to Kamina's dad, calling him stupid or insane to try stop Kamina from causing trouble following in his footsteps. So, Kamina and his dad found the surface, but Kamina declined to explore. As to how the guy got to the surface to begin with, I'll just put it this way. This guy, with an unknown-but-certainly-heroic woman, made Kamina.

*** Gimmy and Darry were, in the very least, shown to be able to match the enemy units and rack up a decent number of kills, even when the Anti-Spiral mooks decided to power up. They had plenty of willing, sufficiently able units, even if they weren't explicitly made for the job. Think of them as infantry, where the Gunmen are tanks for them to form up around.

*** The show's director has stated that the only "Yoko Littner" is the bounty hunter from the multi-dimensional labyrinth. In the show's reality, the name is just Yoko. Simon and Kamina didn't "drop" Jiha as a surname; nobody has an obvious surnames in Gurren Lagann, with the possible exception of the Black Siblings, if that's not just the name of their old beastman resistance group.

*** They're the ones turning the lights off. It happens whenever the chief of Giha Village gets tired and decides it's time for curfew. Additionally, Adai Village doesn't have electricity, and travel to the surface is prohibited except to winners of their religious ascension lottery. A calendar can't be based on the sleeping habits of cave dwellers -- especially not cave dwellers who don't believe in the sky.

*** They rented some space in Optimus Prime's cargo trailer.
** Spiral Energy

** Best explained with this ''{{Futurama}}'' quote for when the Planet Express ship gets dragged far below the ocean:

*** It's not about hating Rossiu. I have real respect for him as the [[OnlySaneMan Only Sane Man.]] I just can't get why he wouldn't have a contingency for that, when it was indeed a possibility that Simon would do so. Rossiu just doesn't strike me as the type who would rely on others' motives and emotions. He'd have a plan for every single possibility.
*** Yeah, he would. If he needed one. Need I remind you that Rossiu still trusted Simon to some degree? He hated having to throw him in jail and take over. He said the his sentence would be execution but I doubt that he would have gone through with it even if the moon wasn't about to fall. He knew that Simon wouldn't abandon everyone before the fight and after it he and Gurren Lagann were too beat up to do anything. Even if GL wasn't then were would Simon go? If I recall correctly, he still hadn't given up on saving Nia and if she appeared in Kamina City before hand then the chances were quite good that she would again.

*** Notice the cutaway to Earth, the part before the ThemeMusicPowerUp. TTGL is holding back the Storm's light, allowing Lordgenome an opening for his BigDamnHeroes moment.

*** That only solves the problem of the arrows being able to be shot away, not the problem that an arrow would probably wobble around while in a gun barrel and ruin the accuracy.
**** It's an airgun then. It sounds like one anyway.
***** It doesn't matter what type of gun it is: the problem is that an arrow, which would not fit perfectly into the barrel of a gun, would not be stationary in the gun, greatly reducing the accuracy (and power) of an anything launched out. Air would follow the path of least resistance, which is to go around an arrow instead of launching it, and a railgun launching an arrow, while possible, would still need a barrel specifically designed for arrows.
***** Sabots. Alternatively, a firing mechanism more akin to a crossbow than a firing pin.
***** [[HandWave The magnetic accelerator holds the metal arrow precisely in the centre of its magnetic field before shooting it up along the barrel, thus it is perfectly stabilized before it is fired. Thus no wobbling and almost anything that can fit down the barrel of a suitable material can be fired in that fashion. Which sounds handy.]]
***** You know, [[RealityIsUnrealistic that is exactly how a real life coil gun works]].
****** Well, based on what her normal shots look like Yoko's gun SHOOTS electricity. I mean, I could be a thin barrel, with the electrical energy being built up inside, then shot out via trigger pull. Optionally, she can manually fill up magazines with arrows or bullets, and have them fired out with more power due to the electrical power pushing them forwards. But that's about all I can think of at the moment.

*** "Half inch wide barrel? You mean, like a [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82 Barret M82]]?
*** Confirmed from the intro exposition in episode 2, it mentions that the rifle is "superconducting" so I'd assume it's some sort of LIM or railgun or whatever.

*** Lolicons.
*** Also, Nia is "cute" and "new", while Yoko is so "first episodes' news" and, if memory serves me right, quite agressive to people showing affection to her. If that doesn't do it for you, then all I have to say is this: She's Kamina's hoe, you sure you wanna go after the girl belonging to the only man who could seriously get out of the screen and punch the telespectator in the face??
**** This bugged Rossiu too in the manga adaptation. He says in one of the 4koma: "Does this mean..... that in this day and age, flat-chested lolitas tend to be more universally popular among the consumers?"

* Am I honestly the only one bugged by some of the character interactions that take place early in the post-timeskip episodes? Seriously, some of the ways that these characters behave around each other makes it feel less like they’ve been working together, striving to build a stable new society for seven years and more like they were all stuck into plot-induced, isolated incubation chambers, then plopped into the shiny new setting with similarly plot-convenient roles to play.

*** But that's exactly the point. Either the characters haven't changed or if they have, almost all of the ways in which the characters and their relationships are different feel unnatural and forced (Simon and Rossiu are probably the worst offenders in this respect). Seven years IS a long time for people to get to know each other, and I have a difficult time buying into the idea that the Gurren Dan has been governing Kamina City with relative peace and stability without becoming a more mature, tight-nit, cohesive group of people whose interaction has grown naturally and realistically. But we don't get that, with a few exceptions, instead we get what amount to basically about half of the main cast virtually unchanged, while the rest have been shoddily retooled with no consideration given to realism in their CharacterDevelopment, which ultimately makes the way they interact with the rest of the cast that much more questionable.
*** I think their problem is more that they don't know how to be politicians, and aren't comfortable in the role. When outside the role, it's clear that they are, at least somewhat, more comfortable with each other. Also, nobody said they were a democracy, they just happen to be the group with both the biggest stick and the most popular support.
*** Funny how it's supposed to be a democracy and yet Rossiu always seemed to be telling everyone what to do and how to do it, even prior to the initial Anti-Spiral attack.
*** I think that was the point, when Simon makes a big deal to Viral about how they have a court-system to fairly try criminals, and yet when Simon himself is put in the same court the Judge's girlfriend is the sole jury member and everybody makes a big stink about how obviously unfair that was.
***** The whole thing still bugs me regardless. It just feels unrealistic, and no do not try to retort that realism doesn't matter because Gurren Lagann doesn't care about the laws of physics. Subverting the laws of physics for the sake of a CrowningMomentofAwesome is irrelevant with regards character interaction and world building.
****** Actually, it wasn't Simon and Rossiu working together to create a new work. It was Rossiu working to create a new world by himself with Simon as merely an icon to represent freedom. Simon was never a man of authority and the only reason he stayed in Kamina City was for Nia. It's a pretty logical progression to the storytelling. People grow apart, Simon's interactions with Rossiu weren't abundant as the only person he had a close relationship with was Nia. I have no idea of what kind of "unnatural and forced" interactions are you talking about. Gimmy and Darry themselves remark that the Gang was too immersed in their own glory and larger-than-life ideals to truly "grow-up and throw away their past" like Rossiu did. It seems to me like you're trying to force the characters into a mold they were never meant to fit. Simon was always shy, never very social and even after growing up he was more of a down-to-earth character that only really related to Nia. Expecting him to become a close buddy with the other characters would have been unbelievable.
******* If I remember correctly, the whole "new vs. old" thing was an actual theme that was brought up on several occasions. When Rossiu arrests Simon, he even remarks that Simon hasn't changed a bit, and that he'll never understand. Kittan also remarks how Kinon's personality has completely changed. As for the above-mentioned point about Team Dai-Gurren being unable to govern anything, it's pretty obvious that they aren't doing jack. Rossiu's really the one pulling the strings.
******* For me it just ultimately boils down to the length of the timeskip. Seven years is a long time for a group of characters to spend away from the eyes of the audience and it just doesn't feel like the writing treats some of the characters like they've been living their lives realistically, but rather, like their personalities were snap-shotted from episode 15 and then put on hold for seven years. Rossiu is a can of worms I won't get into, but to better illustrate my point, I'll offer up a contrasting example. In the seven years between episodes 15 and 17, Dayakka got married and had a kid, and his personality changed appropriately. Kittan, on the other hand, doesn't seem like he's changed a lick since the day Teppelin fell. I know it's weird and pretty subjective, but it boils down to that: I think the timeskip is too long and it does weird things to the way the characters come off.
******* You can't expect someone like Kittan to change no matter how much time passes. He himself basically admits he's ill-suited for the job they gave him. There are basically two camps among the Gurren-dan post time skip: People like Rossiu, Yoko, and Dayakka who changed in some way in the seven years, and people like Kittan, Simon, Nia, and Viral who really didn't change all that much. In fact, although it's not really easy to see between the mind blowing battles, there is the overarching theme of "growing up" present in the post-time skip world. The problem is it's a lot more subtle (and in Simon's case with refusing to even try to bring back Nia at the end, mindblowingly misguided...personally if I heard someone say to let the girl who went poof stay poofed because it was time to move on and leave it to the next generation, I'd sock him in the face and ask "What about YOUR next generation? You just saved the Goddamn universe, be a little selfish just this once!") in that it addresses a problem with 20-somethings moving forward in life. Most of the protagonists have this stagnation in their lives as a character flaw. This growth, however, is incredibly hard to portray in any form of media, since almost everyone is still going through it in their own lives. It's like a 10 year old writing about puberty.
********* You have just won the internet. The only major logic hole in Gurren Lagann that cannot be explained through spiral power or its awesome abilities is Simon's decision to let Nia stay dead, for some half explained reason. "What about YOUR next generation? You just saved the Goddamn universe, be a little selfish just this once!" indeed.
********** If Simon ''did'' bring her back, who would it be for? For her sake, or his own? I've recently come to realized that that I, and I suspect most people who defend the ending, have been looking at it from the wrong perspective. All my arguments up to this point have been focused on the fact that bringing Nia back would set mankind down the path of the Spiral Nemesis, but there's something much more important that reviving Nia would destroy: Nia herself. Consider, for a moment, what almost everyone in the story saw her as: her own father had her for the sake of his own amusement, the Anti-Spirals' used her as a tool, and even most of the Gurren Gang saw rescuing her as their goal for its own sake. Throughout her life, for one reason or another, selfish or not, she was always merely an object, whether to be used or fought for. But when she died, when she ''accepted that fate, of her own will, in order to meet to her own ideals'', that all changed. It is unquestionably tragic, but in the end, Simon accepting Nia's decision isn't just him once more shouldering the universe's own moral problems: it's him accepting Nia's sole selfish request.
*********** Also, bringing Nia, and anyone else, back to life would have been a clear abuse of spiral power, which Simon basically told Anti-Spiral he wouldn't do since it causes that whole death of the universe thing.
*********** Bullshit! They abuse spiral power to win, and they do it on levels that render a single person, a planet full of people, hell, a GALAXY full of people irrelevant. By the end of Lagann-hen, they've abused it so much that bringing back everyone all the way from Lordgenome's time would have been largely irrelevant. All of this to take down the the Anti-Spiral, which apparently requires building mechs large enough that galaxies are motes of dust. Even supposing that you bring back everyone who died merely in the series and movie (which ranges from a dozen or so to a mere three), and they all turned out to be crazy excellent at using Spiral power (only Kittan actually demonstrates this before the Tengen Toppa is generated, not even Kamina), that's only a few more galaxies to deal with (since each person becomes a galaxy during Spiral Nemesis). Certainly, this risk is relatively low, given how many god damn people there are on Earth alone (at least a million, assuming no one died after we hit this mark), and realistically, given there is no reason to fight, there is no real reason to use spiral power except for this exact purpose! Oh, and lucky us, only Simon can actually use it on that scale! It's bullshit to say that "Oh, we can't bring back my brother, my love, and my friends because it'd be abuse" when you've already DESTROYED AN ENTIRE DIMENSION USING IT.
*** That's the whole point. they realized the destructive power of spiral energy so they limited their use of it. the abuse eariler was nessecary. but, now that the threat is gone, they can limit the use of spiral energy to prevent the destruction of any dimensions
*** I think that lot of people are missing the point of the series' messages and themes. If they had tried to bring Nia back to life then they would started down the path of the Anti-Spirals. There's a reason that the Anti-Spirals are largely represented by circles. They want to keep things going, no matter what. What is the fundamental difference between a circle and a spiral? A spiral ends.
*** Nia would end eventually. She'd die. Would it be so bad to just keep her going until she dies a normal, ''justified'' death?
*** Yes because now you're always going to find justification to extend someone's life until the universe collapses under the mass of living people. Personally I don't agree with the theory, I assume they'd always be able to find or make more universe as needed or if nothing else see what it's like to live inside a black hole, but the characters are completely convinced of this. Consider that up until now the ''only'' reason they've been using spiral power, and the only thing they've used it ''for'', is in response to a series of escalating threats against mankind's continued existence. The correct, responsible thing to do when you're done fighting is to put your weapons down.
* What was up with the sudden relationship between Kittan and Yoko? They barely talk to each other when they were young, don't see each other for seven years, she appears again and Kittan thinks she's married with kids and yet out of nowhere one of them falls in love with the other and he kisses her. Why would he kiss her first of all, and second why kiss her especially thinking that she had kids?
** In case you haven't noticed, Kittan and Kamina are a lot alike - that's why they don't get along. It stands to reason that Kittan would be attracted to the same sort of person as Kamina. He didn't go after her at first because they were occupied with defeating Lord genome, and when she came back after the timeskip they were focused on the Anti-Spiral. He probably knew he was going to die in that final attack, so decided to snatch his last chance for a kiss.

*** Just felt that [[http://manga.bleachexile.com/tengen-toppa-gurren-lagann-chapter-3-page-32.html this little part]] from the manga should be referenced here. An excellent humorous subversion of Kamina's first combine. It's just a joke, so it doesn't exactly happen, but still, it is funny enough to get mentioned here.
*** Hilariously put into video form [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnDa7bLg8QY here.]] Warning. Mild spoilers.
**** Wow...that just seems like a FunnyAneurysmMoment, big time.

*** Speak for yourself. I had a classmate in middle school with Yoko's figure.
**** Yeah, me too. To add she was japanese and, according to her, yes they were real (they looked real enough to me).
** I'm incredulous and somewhat skeptical myself, but my best guess is that her figure's a parody of [[Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion Asuka]]'s. This does mean that those guys complaining about her swimwear in episode 12 are drooling over a 14-year-old girl. (And Nia's ''also'' supposed to be 14.) Then there's the Main/DistantFinale, which seems to suggest that people suddenly age ten effective years upon turning 40.

*** Simon is said to be unusually stunted in growth, for some reason or other.
*** If, they were unable to observe astronomical objects they obviously based it around something else. For instance, they could use when the lights are turned off for the basis of "days".

* WordOfGod is that the way years are counted underground doesn't match up to actual solar years, given that they don't even know the sun exists.

*** They kept useing the "years" they used before going to the surface. Not hard to believe at all.

** It's vaporized and converted into concentrated awesome. It is then stored in either Simon's drill-necklace or Kamina's glasses where it can be called upon later (like when one needs to produce, for example, a galaxy sized giant robot out of thin air to defeat the Main/BigBad). Admit it, it makes perfect sense.

*** Digging doesn't work that way. Remember ''Main/{{Holes}}''? Subsurface soil is pretty tightly packed, and removing it usually makes it take up much more space. (Some of the non-simplified shots of digging, like when Simon digs out Lagann, show the dirt flying around too.) And this isn't taking account where the air to fill the space comes from.
*** Since Lord genome wanted humans to survive underground, he may have supplied them with spiral drills when he first imprisoned them there.

** Because Gainax has no sense of scale.

*** It has been explicitly stated that Spiral power can actually create matter, rather than convert it from one form to another - that's the cause of the Spiral Nemesis.

*** Been {{Jossed}} by WordOfGod. Yes, they ''really are'' the size of galaxies. I chalk it up to physics being extremely mutable in a crack between dimensions. Also Spiral Power. Spiral Power is the explanation for everything.
*** Hell Energy signatures "larger than galaxies" breaks physics as much as just being larger than galaxies anyways. As energy = mass, so they would have to have more mass than a galaxy which if they weren't on a ridiculously massive scale would create a black hole from sheer density.
**** ''Physics?'' Physics was crying in the corner by the end of the first episode. By the finale it had hung itself with its own bootlaces.
***** By the end? Most likely its rotten corpse was locked up in a, literally, bloody room with multiple ways of suicide, not discluding cyanide pills, a noose made out of chains, etc., etc.
****** Nah. Physics is still there, it's just gone passive-aggressive from lack of attention. "Fine, create galaxy-sized mecha and hurl around big bangs. All that extra mass will swallow the universe eventually." Physics is the Spiral Nemesis. Fortunately, no-one awesome listens to it.
******* It has been changed so that one can make Spiral Energy into matter and back at will. It's fine, really. Just changed a little.

*** Because it reminds them of their original home.
*** Easy access. It's stated that the Anti-Spirals suppress all the evolution that they can, and what better way to keep whole galaxies under control than to drag them into your own space so you can keep an eye on them?

*** Well, first, Boota is a mole-pig, no lizard in there. Second, it wasn't just the tail, it was EVERYTHING REAR OF HIS HIND LEGS. You could see a red circle with a white hole in it representing his innards and spine, like someone had taken a knife to the rear eighth of his body.
**** These are far-future creatures we're talking about. He's already a combination of mole and pig. What's to say there might not be some sort of regenerative power in there? Also, Spiral Power.
***** Of course, it could be that Boota's rear is mostly fat and cartilage, but then again, WHY are we arguing over a abstractly cartoonish scene? I'm pretty sure that scene was done for laughs, and to parody the trope of self sacrifice in anime, and having pets who are loyal enough to be emergency food sources.
***** [[BigLippedAlligatorMoment We don't really talk about when Boota did that...]]
****** It wasn't a BigLippedAlligatorMoment. Kamina ends up wanting more at the end of the fourth episode and the start of the fifth.
******* The fifth episode also has a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot of Boota's rump half-recovered. If we assume that pigmoles were genetically engineered, it makes sense: allowing your livestock to regrow parts you've cut off decreases the energy required for a steak.

*** I'm more concerned about why ''Leeron'' doesn't grow or age in the slightest over the course of 27 years. The characters who started as teenagers are in their forties now...
**** The Boota thing, I've heard, was mainly out of Boota's subconscious desire to fight alongside Simon and co. as more than just a molepig -- he wanted to be more helpful to his team and willed himself into beastman-mode. That, and the Anti-Spiral ''was'' influencing their thoughts at the time. As for Leeron, well... he's fabulous. I'm sure he'd have invented ''some'' kind of technology to keep himself beautiful for life.
***** I thought Leeron looked like he had aged a little at the end. He probably just hides it really well with make-up.
****** This is one of the reasons I call discontinuity on the Main/DistantFinale. Loads of plot holes, in addition to the wholly unnecessary (and contrary to the theme of the entire series) death of [[spoiler: Nia]] and Simon's essentially being PutOnABus.
**** Leeron is simply the Eternal Queer. He will forever be fabulous.
**** It is stated somewhere, from the studio, that Leeron uses a lot of plastic surgery after the Time Skip. It may just be a justifiable excuse, but it does make sense.

*** That was instant, attributable to Lagann's regeneration and modification of assimilated parts. The Dai-Gurren changed between episodes, and was unchanged by Lagann's takeover. It DOES however, bring up the issue of where the helmet goes when the Gurren and the Lagann are separate...
**** Hammerspace.
**** Spiral Energy
**** Actually, IIRC, the helmet is stored in a compartment behind the "back plate" of Gurren (the same plate that has those 4 drills that are used to carry the travelling compartment and attach one of the beastman planes to so that it can fly) and is launched out as part of the transformation sequence in a similar manner to R2-D2's lightsaber launcher.

*** Specifically, spiral energy [[BatmanCanBreatheInSpace created by Batman.]

*** And yet they were shown not to be waterproof earlier in the series?
**** The novels explain this, saying that they weren't waterproof due to lack of upkeep. After they had been repaired and maintained by the Dai Gurren, they were fit to use in space again.
**** Not sure about the details of this, but compressive strength and tensile strength are two different things. Maybe the Ganmen are designed primarily for greater internal pressure.
***** Re-watching the episode where they fought underwater says Spiral energy fixes them up to make them airtight. So yeah, first person was right.
***** Actually, the fourth person was closer. Only Gurren-Lagann was fixed up to be airtight by spiral power. The rest had trouble operating in water. There's a large difference between something being space-capable (where the pressure is ''internal'' - all that air inside, pushing hard to get out) and water-capable (where the pressure is ''external'' - all that water outside trying to get in, and water can exert a lot more pressure than air. Something like 30 meters of water exerts the same pressure as our entire atmosphere). The Ganmen were explicitly said to have been designed for space battle.
**** Best explained with this ''{{Futurama}}'' quote for when the Planet Express ship gets dragged far below the ocean:
---->'''Professor Farnsworth''': My God, that's over 500 atmospheres of pressure!\\

***** It could also be explained by the assumption that the other humans didn't have access to anywhere near the same level of Spiral Energy that Gurren-Lagann did. I can't remember if it was ever specifically shown/stated that they were using Spiral Energy that early in the series... and even if they were, it seemed to be just enough to power the mechs. It could be that nobody was capable of that sort of thing without whatever weird advantages that Lagann and the Core Drill (which seems to function as some sort of Spiral-focusing device) impart. After all, it wasn't until [[spoiler:KING KITTAN GIGA DRILL BREAKER!]] that we saw anyone other than Lord genome, Arc-Gurren (for the shields; presumably powered by the combined Spiral emissions of all aboard) and Gurren-Lagann itself using enough Spiral Energy to do anything other than move.

*** Until that episode I was thinking monkey.

*** Right, thanks — I just re-watched Episode 24, so now I get it.

*** Presumably because Gurren Lagann couldn't sustain drills large enough to match up with the "receivers." And bear in mind that Gimmy and Darry likely couldn't have pulled off the kind of feats of Spiral Power that would have been needed to take on so many enemies at once - Arc Gurren Lagann is capable of many things, but being in multiple places at once is not on its resume.
**** It's proven in Parallel Works 8 that a Space Ganman is needed to allow a normal Ganman to work with Chouginga Gurren Lagann (or Cathedral Terra, as the case may be in the aforementioned video).

*** I don't like this explanation. It doesn't really satisfy, nor does it explain how the Ganmen could have been developed to fight anti-spirals, but are operational when the beastmen use it. Here's an idea: The Ganmen were made to fight he anti-spirals like Lord genome said,but when the beastmen use them they can't harness the spiral energy powers, and operate them through purely mechanical means. but when the humans start taking them, they activate the spiral power and use them to their full potential. This has the nice advantage of explaining why all the trained beastmen are so easily defeated by humans who got their Ganmen a short time before.
*** Um...yes, this is basically stated by WordOfGod.
*** This ''is'' addressed, actually. Ganmen can be powered by Spiral Energy (I assume Genome retroengineered them from his own mecha, which was created to kill Anti-Spirals indeed, after landing on Earth) but they ''do'' have a electric engine as well. This is what the beastmen use. This is also, as you say, why Ganmen are much more powerful when piloted by humans than beastmen.
*** Aren't the Ganmen powered by Solar Cells(I'm sure this is WordOfGod )? This would explain why Beastmen don't go out at night, though it does not explain how they sometimes operate in low light conditions
**** This is WordOfGod, yes. Ganmen run on solar power when used by Beastmen. That's why the hot spring Ganmen in ep 6 being able to move at night due to geothermal power is such a big deal.
*** Viral is a special case - I think that somewhere they {lampshaded} that he SHOULDN'T be able to generate Spiral Energy, but IIRC WordOfGod says that Viral somehow does (Sprial Energy can be more 'drive to improve oneself' than 'ability to mutate' at times, anyway.) How the OTHER beastmen manage, on the other hand...
*** Terapin can be seen falling to Earth again. I think, following the Eva parallels of the series, it can be described that the Beastmen are the "Dummy Plugs". Ganmen are designed to be used by spirals, and thus are far more powerful when powered by spirals. Whence the solar cells mentioned above. It provides just enough power to operate the machine and Beastmen are capable of the "basic" functions. Note that the questionable if Beastman, Gaume (see WMG), does a spiral like ability in episode 14.
*** Or, an even more simple explanation: Lord genome was powering all the ganmen by himself. This explains why they suddenly deactivated when he was defeated. The fact that this would mean he had a downright UNHOLY amount of spiral energy but still got defeated by Simon can be attributed to the same theory: because he was powering all the ganmen he didn't have all his energy at his disposal, and disabeling the other ganmen would leave him to be pretty much zerg rushed by the resistance, making a three-on-seven (Rossiu, Mia and Simon versus Lord genome and his six... utterly unexplained women) battle a much more favorable option.
*** Actually this is explained in the series when the Space King Kittan goes out into the super high density [[InSpace space ocean.]] [[HotScientist That doctor woman]], whose name escapes me, says to, I'm pretty sure, Dayakka after he wonders how the ganmen are functioning in the ocean despite spiral energy being absorbed, "It ran with electricty when it was on the ground." [[RuleOfCool Also, the Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann was able to still run on]] [[AppliedPhlebotinum spiral energy]] [[RuleOfCool because Simon just produces that much.]]

* Are we ever going to [[Main/AllThereInTheManual find out]] about the initial discovery of Spiral energy and/or the initial development of the Ganmen (or proto-Ganmen mecha)? If not, I'd really like to see a Main/FanFic explore this.

** If every Spiral world has a guy like Leeron (er.. okay.. sort of like Leeron, at least) floating around somewhere in the population, the technological knowledge would remain even if they're being murdered too hard to put it to good use.
*** No one can be like Leeron. He's just too fabulous.
** The "Earth" of TTGL is probably more regressed than the average world as Lord genome did his best to prevent technology and humans from advancing enough again to attract Anti-spiral attention. Many worlds might have just begun their own fights, didn't hide and "all" was probably a bit of an exaggeration.

* Why did [[spoiler: all the Anti-Spirals' planetary suppression systems]] collapse after [[spoiler:the main Anti-Spiral was defeated?]] Aren't these supposed to be automated systems?

*** [[spoiler: The best explanation I can give is one part {{Ontological Inertia}} and two parts {{Handwave}}.]]
**** [[spoiler: Actually, she should have exploded. Remember how she starting fading out during the final battle? The only reason why she didn't, and why she survived long enough to make it to the wedding, was that she was holding herself together through sheer willpower.]]
*** [[spoiler: I always thought of it as the messengers being some sort of a "genetic program", so to speak, and the Anti-Spiral Homeworld as a database. Without the database, the program disappears. That's why she began to fade a little when Yoko shot the Homeworld. She held on as a ghost through sheer badass.]]]
** Anti-Spiral energy? Anti-Spirals seemed to use it or something very much like it to replace spiral energy, though pinkish Spiral Energy was shown before on occaisons. Over the series we see disheartened Spiral beings lose all power immediately with a similar result as pulling the plug on a machine. The Anti-spirals were just advance enough to last until they at least died instead of being demotivated.

*** That's because Nia thought it was unfair. For her to live unfairly abusing of Spiral Energy and unnaturally prolonging life.
** Simple answer, finely explained. Nia was a human the Antispiral created that had an implant of anti-spiral energy in her. When the 1000000 mark hit, a trigger was activated that reconfigured her into an Anti-Spiral being, but she had been around Simon so much it didn't turn her completely. The AS King implies this normally happens, but not to this extent. Normally he says the other messengers have given in to their anti-spiral processes by the time he analyzes her. As the AS king had created all Anti-Spiral energy, the only thing holding her together was a tiny bit of spiral energy. Like Viral said, it was amazing she was able to hold herself together for a full week.

*** Don't get me wrong, I understand why he did it, had he kept hanging around, [[spoiler: The post-Anti-Spiral Government]] would have been completely undermined by his mere presence (see: Act III). I'm just saying it's horribly depressing to hear him say [[spoiler: "Who do you think I am?... That's right... I'm nothing"]] Speaking of Afterlife... how does he know it exists? Or are we extrapolating from the random apperance of [[spoiler: Kamina]] in the [[spoiler: Lotus Eater Machine Dreams]] of those he cared about, and the massive build up of Spiral Power from all the dead?
**** Ah, but you're forgetting something very, very important here. This universe (pretty much literaly) runs on RuleOfCool, right? Let me offer the alternatives: [[spoiler: Simon is just a 'hobo' and there is no afterlife.]] Is that cool/awesome, at all? No, of course not, so naturally, [[spoiler: the only interpretation is that Kamina actually intervined, although dead, to help out everyone at that crucial moment]], which is certainly more badass and cool than the alternative! From that, [[spoiler:it's no strech to imagine that Simon is pretty much just doing as described]].
**** He said, "I guess I'm nothing." And he said it to a very young and very distracted kid, I think of it as him not telling a story, that to him, is boring and the kid isn't interested in.
*** It's very possible Simon is officially immortal actually. He's, by the end of the final battle, gained the spiral eyes. By the end of the timeskip, he looks older, but not near-50 old. Late 30s at the most, and nowhere NEAR as aged as the rest, though he should be, of course. His left eye appears to be permanently in a spiral pattern, something that he now shares with another ageless immortal, Lord genome. Besides, I like the wandering hero idea as well. It seems... very Simon. Not wanting to be hounded about his past, what he's done, but to move forward, and embrace the lifestyle Kamina gave him, he wanders the countryside, bringing happiness to whoever he can, whereever he can. He helps a land, and wanders on, to help another. I like that, myself, so I always assumed it was a mixture of the two. Then again, I actually liked the ending. It felt appropriate to me. A quiet farewell sort of thing, no massive celebration, no carrying the hero on your shoulders. A final bit of quiet peace, something Simon devoted his life to finally having.
**** Simon doesn't look like he's in his 50's because he isn't. He's only 41.
*** I just presumed it was because with the sheer amount of Spiral Energy he'd built up by then, he thought it would be best if he didn't go around using it, as that would risk causing the [[spoiler:Spiral Nemesis]] thing.

*** Besides, what's he got to prove to this little kid? Or to anyone, really?
**** Maybe it's sarcastic, "Oh I guess I'm no body." He was talking to a disinterested kid, who wasn't paying any attention to him.

*** "And Caesar came to the shore and wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer". Only Simon was not as good at retirement as Caesar.
*** Watch the very beginning of episode 1 and then the very end. [[spoiler:"All the lights in heaven are our enemies" / "All the lights in heaven are stars"]]
*** Although at first I wasn't happy with Simons declaration of being no-one, it does make sense. It follows on from his earlier statement that he just drills the hole, it's up to someone else to go through once he's opened the way. So in this world, he's right, he ISN'T someone incredibly important. He's done his job and is happy in that. As shown by the early stuff after timeskip, he's not cut out to lead the world. He's just Simon the Digger, who is no-one/nothing to this kid. And thats as it should be. Perhaps bittersweet, but it's up to the rest of the people to follow on from him, without living in his shadow.

*** The animation settles down about half-way through, though the initial half is pretty rough, alas. However, with the exception of episode 4 it never comes anywhere near "unwatchable", and post-timeskip it never drops below average. As for the final episode, [[spoiler:Nia's]] death was pretty much a standard "Let's add needless drama", but it did, at least, have a bit of a point, namely that sometimes sacrifices have to be made, that the Roussius of the world are not entirely wrong. It's against the rest of the show, so it feels very out of place, but it's not wrong. Finally, as for episode 6, you're citing the lack of nudity on a kid's cartoon show as a strike against it? Seriously? Me, I'd be happy if there was no episode 6, makes it really awkward to watch with the family.
*** I thought the uncut episode 6 was hilarious, particularly with regards to nudity (or lack thereof).
*** There is an uncut episode 6. "Uncut" in this instance meaning "all the stuff that was originally in the episode but got censored on TV," not "we added in MORE NUDITY for the horny fans."

*** The ending actually ties in with the Spiral philosophy even more. Spiral beings become more powerful with successive generations, right? Simon given everything he had. He'd made his revolution, his rotation of the drill. Now it was time for the younger generation to make their rotation, which would carve humanity's path through evolution even further than he did. The ending wasn't bad at all. It completely exemplified the theme of the show and the idea of spiral energy.

** I thought so too, but after rewatching the scene I suspect it was Simon. Boota and Lord genome provided just enough "interesting..." to convince the Anti-Spiral King it was them.
* Enki/Enkidu/Enkidudu. Okay, seriously. ''Why in the hell'' did the customization of that particular mecha move more towards uselessness as the series progressed? Viral's first loss happened when he ''switched to his only melee weapon.'' The missiles and shooting blades and whatnot were shown to be very effective before Gurren Lagann showed up, so why did subsequent upgrades use only one projectile at most? ([[Main/ThrowingYourSwordAlwaysWorks throwing the head-blade]]) Did he just get put on the Teppelin's shit-list for the first loss or what?
** The meta reason would be Main/VillainDecay. The in-universe one... No idea.
*** Just re-watched Episode 17, which makes this even worse; he uses the aforementioned projectiles in the battle against the [[Main/SpellMyNameWithAnS Grappals/Gulaparls]], so he clearly ''did'' have those things; he's just an ''[[Main/PlotInducedStupidity idiot.]]''
*** The in-universe one could even be Main/VillainDecay as that is a plot point using Viral in comparison to Spiral Energy. The original attacks were against basically noobs at fighting. So they were extra effective then. Still, think about the progression. The first battle he is/was a soldier out on the field. Till his defeat and the loss of Dai Gurren he had been bent on retrieving his helmet, his honor and using a weakened robot. From Dai Gurren to Telepin he is scrounging for favors and begging to fight again. The Big Four were most likely not wanting to waste their good range projectiles on a loser. He was defeated too quickly at Lord genome's throne room to be certain if he had any again now that he had Lord genome's favor. Either he did, and was just wiped out too quickly or he scavanged them in the intervening years.
*** I favour a far simpler explanation. Viral was a worthy opponent in the beginning, even taking into account that Kamina was using Spiral Energy and Viral wasn't. Then his commanding officer is killed, and Viral is handed from CO to CO who all love nothing more than taking him down every chance they get, with Adiane making a point to physically abuse him because he's too honorable to defend himself from an officer. All while the Dai Gurren Dan get stronger all the time. Hell, I'm impressed he was still able to hold his own.
*** Lordgenome's explanation of how Beastmen were inferior to humans is probably the in-universe reason. Viral had all of it, just that Kamina (and later Simon) had already surpassed him through their use of Spiral energy. Plus in the first episode, they did little more than annoy GL, much less do any noticable damage. Viral himself might not even be used to using them as an offensive weapon, resorting them to only as an escape plan or as a last-ditch effort.
* "Go Beyond The Impossible and kick Reason to the curb"... Does that mean that the Simon Kick can punt the gatling railgun of the same name from ''Main/SnowCrash'' impossible distances? (Note: This may or may not be a joke.)
** Yes.

*** Then isn't the lesson "Whoops, I guess humans really ARE that foolish after all?"
*** This. Doing so would basically be the path of "They dare challenge me? Fine, I'll screw them all out of space in time! Mwahahaha."
*** I really feel that the point is that while they could have [[spoiler:saved Nia]], this would have been exactly the kind of thing that the [[spoiler:Antispirals knew would cause Spiral Nemesis.]] Spiral Energy is used consistently for amazing feats of awesomeness, but cause tremendous damage to their immediate surroundings. Among other things, Fullmetal Alchemist suggests that there is a very big difference between creating/altering matter and [[spoiler:bringing back the dead]]; even Spiral Power has its limits.
*** That's not the point. He's not asking "why didn't they?", he's asking "why would they have needed to?". They ''didn't need to'' [[spoiler:bring her back from the dead]]! They didn't seem that concerned after they made a mech the size (and what must have been many times the mass) of ''a friggin' galaxy''. If they could do that without any significant concern, then how in the hell could [[spoiler:changing an Anti-Spiral into a human]] or [[spoiler:doing whatever the hell she did to withstand [[NoOntologicalInertia the lack of ontological inertia]] but for the rest of her life]] have caused Spiral Nemesis? That ''would'' just be altering matter. I can't even imagine that needing as much as running the Chouginga Gurren Lagann for a couple minutes! If I understood right, [[spoiler:their primary reason to go after the Anti-Spirals in the first place was to save Nia]], so why would they suddenly be ''that'' stingy with Spiral Power, especially considering they are still apparently using it to power mechs in the future?
**** Precedent. They were founding a new world, possibly galactic, order, remember, so anything they do has drastic implications. If they bring Nia back, the precident is set for it to be permissible for anyone to bring a loved one back- and thus, nobody to ever die. No problem in the short term, but long term, it means trillions of pounds of mass being created, as people create mass to have both children and ancestors at once, and thus, eventual spiral nemesis. Even before that, there'd probably be resource issues, and in any case it'd contribute towards creation of a Spiral-based aristocracy, where placement in society, and even lifespan, is based on what emotions you're predisposed towards. Plus, TTGL looked to be more energy than mass, anyway.

*** That probably would've been even harder considering how long he was gone (it would have been easier to [[spoiler:ressurrect any of the other people that just died]]). Again, they probably figured they didn't want to do something that would require so much Spiral Energy, because they would either have to let anyone else do it (which could quickly cause Spiral Nemesis and/or massively upset the balance of life) or to selfishly hoard it.

*** This is idiotic of course, unless you have infinite resources. We don't have anything like Spiral Energy here in the real world kid.

** Yeah, they could have kept [[spoiler:Nia alive. But she was dead. She died when they killed the Anti-Spiral. That's what many people fail to get. Simon married her ghost. A ghost kept around by sheer willpower and badassery. He would have been bringing her back to life, not prolonging her life.. And what the hell, bring Kamina and all the rest back too.]] In fact, why should ANYBODY die? Let's just all remain statically alive and not allow any growth. Oh, woops, Simon just became Lord genome. I guess humans really are dumb. There's a difference between giving up and letting go. They made that clear 15 episodes ago.
*** All the philosophical and societal issues created by the whole "raising the dead" thing could have been solved with a few simple words from Simon: "I have now saved A) the planet, twice, B) All other spiral life in existence, and C) the entire freaking universe. And now all I want is a happy life with the woman I love. It that really too much to ask?! Didn't think so."
**** This. A million times this. Simon EARNED it. Also, I don't think Nia would be too sad about coming back and raising a family with Simon. She's not freakin' Jesus, people.
*** Why do people have such trouble accepting this: Nia '''CHOSE''' to not let people bring her back. It was her decision, Simon ignoring that because he wanted her back would be little more than a tantrum. Nia's death was unfair, but no more than anyone else's. Simon wasn't allowing her to die, he was honoring her will and working it out from there. Life ain't all gumdrops and lollipops, winners in war still get killed. From all of this debate, I'm glad that we don't have the ability to rip physics a new one in real life: we'd start Spiral Nemesis in a week.
**** Well duh. [[TerryPrachet If there was a button labeled "do not press or world will end", the paint wouldn't have time to dry]]. As a species, we tend to learn what works and what doesn't by trial and error, which is fine when the trial is over fire makes a good loincloth adornment, but doesn't when it comes to altering fundamental constants of the universe or working out significant moral dilemmas.
**** But this isn't that kind of series! In a series all about SerialEscalation, characters flinging galaxies about and the like, the main character bringing one character back to life is suddenly a bad thing? Nia's death was DeusAngstMachina and you all know it, but tell us to accept it because TrueArtIsAngsty. It's enough to nearly make me a FanHater toward anything with any angst at all.
**** Arguments like this are why I hate it when people claim FanonDiscontinuity. Does [[spoiler: Nia's death]] suck? Yes. Should it have not been written? Yes. From a writing perspective, having this happen was a dick move because they could have just as easily written it otherwise and not had a [[TearJerker Tear jerking]] [[DownerEnding downer ending]]. Is it unjustified in universe and written poorly afterwards? No. In context, this all fits. Bringing back the dead is an abuse of spiral power. It causes the death of the universe, which we know is fact because Simon and Lord genome confirm it. Timeline wise, Simon would have said he wouldn't do just that about yesterday. Keeping her alive is the same kind of abuse. All of that leads to a slippery slope where the universe implodes. Stop making the universe implode.
**** Yes, it would implode if EVERYONE did it. But as savior of the universe and its God for a period of time, Simon was in a unique position to claim his prize for saving everyone. Why couldn't he have just said "yes, I'm bringing Nia back to life. I saved the universe. I EARNED it." and make it so no one else can do what he did?
***** As I believe was mentioned elsewhere on this page: ''precedent.'' If Simon's allowed to do it, who's to say any of Team Dai-Gurren isn't allowed to do it? You think the Black Sisters would mind having their brother back? You think Kamina would've minded having his dad back if he were in any position to bring him back? Hell, you think any of the Team would mind bringing Kamina back? But that's not what Spiral Power is for. '''''We keep on moving forward.''''' There are people waiting behind you and if you just stand there in the middle of the road like some kinda moron you ruin things for everyone who follows and you spit on everything those who came before you have worked for. '''Just who in the hell do you think you are?'''
****** God. That's who I think Simon is. He's God and he and ONLY he is allowed to do whatever the hell he wants, and what he wanted or what he should have wanted is to bring Nia back. Anyone who disagrees is ingrateful and deserves to (and must be) eradicated in order to prevent the Spiral Nemesis that would result if everyone just decided to bring back their loved ones willy-nilly. But Simon earned it and you can't deny him that. '''Who the hell do YOU think you are to deny him that?'''
******* …There is something wrong with you. No one here is denying ''him'' anything. He made the decision himself, (if the possibility is even ''there'' — "potential of evolution" does not equate to "screw causality" any more than [[HumanPopsicle cryogenics]] equate to [[SetRightWhatOnceWasWrong time travel]]) and he would not be — never has been — that presumptuous. There is a ''very big difference'' between [[BadassBoast "Who the hell do you think I am?"]] and [[AGodAmI "I will become the god of the new world."]] That you think — for some reason — that that level of ''assholery'' is acceptable proves nothing about the characters. All it shows is that you weren't paying attention.
******* Well, technically, he's a fictional character, so it's the creators screwing him over. What pissed me off is that Nia only died because she was the antispiral's puppet or whatever; instead of waiting for her to die and then bringing her back (which I agree he shouldn't do), he could just take away the antispiral part of her so she's a normal human, and thus wouldn't have any reason to die. In fact, why didn't he do that right at the start?
******** That line of thought has been brought up elsewhere on this page, and the answer is the same: ''it's not "moving forward."'' Basically, there is not and never was any way they could have prevented Nia's death without a level of foreknowledge that would break the entirety of the plot — we're talking "knowing what she was/would be as soon as they met her"-level precognizance here.
********* Absolutely. Spiral Energy cannot 'do anything'.\\
********* Yes, and neither can modern medicine. But she died because her, for lack of a better word, "power source" was cut. She was obviously capable of generating spiral energy on her own; she used it to keep herself alive until the wedding. Which begs the question of HOW COME SIMON DIDN'T JUST USE HIMSELF AS A POWER SOURCE. We can argue precedents all we want, but the fact of the matter is this was an unprecedented event, impossible to occur again. People die of old age, of disease, etc etc, not of loss of the entire race sustaining them. Saving Nia would NOT be a precedent; it would be aiding what is effectively a WAR victim. For that matter, the amount of spiral energy they expend merely lighting up Gurren Lagann or Tengen Toppa or god forgive SUPER Tengen Toppa is far more than what a single person would use in their entire life time. This is not Nia giving up and accepting her fate, or failure to establish precedents or (as the in universe explanation is) "not standing in the way of the future"; this is sheer bullheadedness. They went to war; people who are caught up in wars, or who are casualties of war almost always get priority treatment, especially in a situation like this. Nia would be easy; just make her how she was before the anti-spirals activated her. She obviously was doing fine then; it was the activation process that made her dependent. Just undo it. Bringing Kitten and Kamina back is a little more iffy, but Kitten is pretty fresh in the grave, and Kamina inspired the whole thing. It's not unjust, the circumstances will never appear again, and the power required is not nearly as much as what was already expended. Case closed.
*** It pretty much boils down to "Spiral Energy does not work that way! Goodnight!"
**** Right, people here seem to be wanting to shoehorn an Aesop into Nia's death. Since no one ever said that spiral power could bring people back from the dead, we can't just assume that it would.
*** The whole basis of the "bring Nia back" argument seems to be based solely on "Simon saved the universe, he is god and he deserves one selfish wish". Simon made it clear that he never saw himself as anything more than a "driller", which was also the basis of his entire hotblooded, emo-exorcising speech to Guame. He's content with being just who he is, and taking what fate has handed to him. Saying that he should do otherwise means going out of character for him, which is the same as saying that the ending does not suit the series (it's "out of character"). Nia dying also wasn't some way for the writers to screw the characters over, it was (as many people have ALREADY pointed out here) a way to reinforce the AESOP and the ending, since this way we know Simon will not be tempted to abuse Spiral Power until accidentally causing Spiral Nemesis. This is also reinforced during the time where the entire Dai-Gurren team was in the dream world, where they saw their "ideal" life and realised how wrong it was. Simon and Yoko's were the best examples, Simon knew that the Kamina bowing before the cops wasn't really the type of person he wanted to be, while Yoko saw the idealized version of herself, and realised it wasn't her at all.

*** So, you would rather let a group of maniacs oppress the universe and probably destroy all life on Earth just because you'd lose the love of your life in the process? [[WhatTheHellHero Dude, what is wrong with you?]]
*** I'm a firm believer in YouAreWorthHell.
*** But the question here is: Is she worth ''everyone in the universe'' going through hell? Is she worth the destruction of Earth? Would she really want that? You morality aside, if the Dai-Gurren Dan had quite there then the ASK would just kill them anyway.
*** Everybody can rest easy on this because:
**** I'm a CelibateHero who's (basically) AllergicToLove.
**** The chance of this situation [[FantasticAesop actually coming up]] is pretty darn unlikely.
*** First: The {{Aesop}} isn't really that fantastic. You've already read what I've had to say about that at the top of the page though. Second: It still comes down to the fact that the choice isn't just personal, it would effect more than yourself in such a situation. Really, if there was even the smallest chance that I could save her, I'd go through hell [[LikeABadAssOutOfHell and back]]. You're right though, it's a redundant argument considering that the chances of something like this coming up is nigh impossible.
*** On further reflection, I probably ''would'' make the sacrifice if I had to...I'd just end up hating myself for the rest of my life for it. I would then say to go forward and make your glorious future, just that there's NoPlaceForMeThere.
*** Actually, that's pretty much the exact reason as to why Simon left. Once Kamina City was built, the only reason he even stayed there is because of Nia.
*** If I may give my reason for hating the ending? I hated the fact that Simon and Nia just accepted it without a fight. Kamina died and still got up and took down an army and inspired his troops. Kittan knew he was going to die but he went out the way he wanted not giving up until he finally reached the center with spiral energy. Hell the entire Gurren Brigade went down taking as many of the Anti-Spirals as they could or they saved their friends, dying like heroes or at the least not just accepting their deaths lying down. Nia's death wasn't a critical part of the story until after the story was pretty mch finished, it wasn't needed. The writers just wanted to make us sad to create more of an impact instead of it being uplifting and inspirational. Instead of Simon and Nia going "I may die but I'm going to go down kicking and screaming at death, flipping it off, and yelling 'fuck you' in its face" they went 'Well...can't fight fate huh?'. It just seemed to undercut the whole 'kick reason to the curb' feeling because they do the reasonable thing and just accep it unwilling to look at alternatives and not even bothering to 'go beyond the impossible'. The ending slapped the whole ideal of never giving up even when the odds seem tremendous. Thats why I hated Nia's death.
***** And some more if I may, also wasn't there, you know, a SMALL WEDDING. The only ones being at it were the former members of the brigade. And so the only ones who would have seen him bring back Nia would be them. Now my point is, its heavily HEAVILY implied in the exty years from now ending that no one from the brigade had ANY contact with Simon during that time. This means the only ones who would know about Simon's resurrection of Nia would be, the brigade, who never see Simon again, and Simon and Nia themselves. So the whole 'bring back everyone who died' thing would be easily rectified with the fact that no one would know he could bring people back to life and that Simon would never use spiral energy again, again implied he does that anyway.
**** I agree with you. The very fact that it was somehow necessary to have Nia die and make Simon walk the Earth is a bad move in the story and by the writers. For the story outside the Aesop, the death was wrong because it ends the story on a DownerEnding disguised as a message to move on. It removes the aspect of a proper narrative towards an acceptable climax and causes the ending to falter into a very depressing move for the audience. Narratively, StudioGainax has done this before; ruined a good ending after everything is achieved-when it would make sense. To add to that fact alongside the additions from the movie, it is rather clear they either have no respect for Nia, or no respect for her archetype; a strong-willed and incredibly sweet female characters. Add alongside the fact [[spoiler: that she established her eternal love for Simon early, then used RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil in a truly disgusting way by the Not-In-Character Anti-Spirals against this character, and finally kill her off in the end after all the shit they did!?]]. Even using that hated Trope was WRONG, and it should have NEVER been used in terms of her or any character! This is the prime reason I absolutely refuse to see the second movie, and also the prime reason why I feel she should have been allowed to live only based on the original anime itself. Nia's forced death was not only a message detracting the NiceGirl and GirlNextDoor, but it also reeked of a festering, immoral and completely disrespectful notion towards all character-based narrative. Her life meant more than that, dammit.

*** The problem is that they are not never using Spiral Power again. We see them using tons of it to power all of their technology and Ganmen, including the all powerful Gurren Lagann itself, are still in use a decade later. I get the whole precedence thing but still that doesn’t answer everything. For one thing why is Simon stabilizing her body considered bringing her back from the dead? She was still alive through sheer force of will. The argument that she was already dead falls apart when no one has a problem with her hanging on for a week. Why is her using Spiral Power to stay alive for a week not considered “not moving forward” any more than her living a natural lifespan? Nia wasn’t dead yet. And while I get the whole death is permanent and they are not gods things, why can’t they save her life BEFORE she dies. Humans are always trying to save lives and prevent deaths and that is considered fine. How can one thing be considered letting the new generation take over but the other one is evil that will immediately lead to the Spiral Nemesis? If she is not gonna be made immortal and people aren’t going to resurrect everyone to stop the cycle of life, how is prolonging the life of one person considered so bad? And I refuse to believe that it is impossible for Spiral Energy to do this. We have not been given any indication of a limit on what Spiral Energy can do. What is to say that a limitless energy source that can create matter can’t return Nia’s body to its pre-Anti-Spiral form or make her a more stable body. I am not saying this because I think Simon is a god who deserves to break the rules because he saved the universe as some people argue. I just think that it is horribly depressing that he (and by extension us) should accept that he goes through so much to rescue her and then has to let her die anyway. It makes his fight seem pointless. In a show about kicking reason to the curb and going Beyond The Impossible it is a dick move to have all of his hard work be in vain. Of course Simon wanted to save the universe but he explicitly says that he is going to save Nia, immediately after learning of the Spiral Nemesis truth. He cares for her too much to just give up like that.
*** You could say he saved Nia just by restoring her non-Messenger self. Even "in a show about kicking reason to the curb and going Beyond The Impossible" people still have to die. Also, it's not like Nia "just gave up", just the fact that she was able to hold herself alive so long shows that. Just because it doesn't take as much power as sustaining the TTGL doesn't mean it's not a power abuse. The TTGL was necessary to ensure the continuation of evolution, keeping someone alive beyond their time would go against that idea completely. It's not just "saving someone's life". It's "keeping a terminally ill patient alive through absurd amounts of chemicals against his will".
*** The problem with the "terminally ill patient" analogy is that it implies that there's no cure for the disease. You're just keeping them alive to suffer rather than letting them pass in peace. But with Nia, this seems more like a case where a you have a cure that can save someone's life, but refuse to give it to them. Simon could have at least tried to save Nia's life, but apparently he didn't even try. Why not? Because he's afraid of causing the Spiral Nemesis. Isn't it that the same fear that caused Lordgenome to turn against his comrades and suppress humanity? So by just giving up and letting Nia die because of something that "might" happen, Simon's taking a giant step backwards from his progression as a character. The whole point of TTGL is evolution, moving forward rather than going backwards or standing still. The idea that Simon just accepts and lets Nia die even though he could save her from dying (without the need of spiral phoenix down) is contrary to his character and it makes the sacrifice of his dead comrades in vain. Sure, the galaxy is safe, but they went all in against the Anti-Spirals to save Nia. Now that Simon's just let Nia die anyway then what was the point? And even if Simon couldn't save Nia, then he owes it to her to at least try. If Nia dies anyway, then at least don't abandon the rest of your friends who've been by you since you were a kid. Especially Yoko.

* Can Simon divide by zero without [[MemeticMutation saying "Oh shit" and exploding?]]
** Yes, but [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_projective_line#Dividing_by_zero is not that impressive.]]
*** Yes, he used Spiral Power to divide the 0% possibilities and making them non-zero, thereby as good as 100%.

*** …Which then brings up the problem of the Gurren being required to get bigger or else be slightly disproportionate or — [[MST3KMantra ah, screw it.]]
**** Well, when they combine Lagann restores any damaged limbs etc, so changing gurren's size to fit isn't all that improbable.

** My understanding was that it didn't matter ''where'' the people were when the population reached one million. That was one of Rossiu's reasons for forcing people up in the first place: The concern that undergrounders could push them past the one million mark with no one being aware until it was too late. Lord genome's reasons for keeping them underground was likely the inverse: By keeping humans in confined areas like underground villages their numbers were more or less guaranteed to remain low. If a population got too large, they'd more likely than not expand to the surface where the beastmen would be waiting.
*** Problem with that explanation: Lord genome put everyone underground because the ExactWords of the Spiral Race Annihilation System was number of humans ''on the surface.'' And it says in the very first episode that they expand ''downward.''
*** There is also mention of all the earthquakes, the deaths caused by that and the possibility of a whole village collapsing from over-expansion.
** Also worth noting is that, while Simon dealt the final blow, Rossiu was right there with him during the face-off with Lord genome. Rossiu was just as responsible for humanity's surface movement from the very beginning.
* The Main/TechnoBabble in the last few episodes confuses me just a bit. I mean... just... pocket universes, evolution leading to the death of the universe... how does any of it make the least bit of sense?

*** Of course, this is arguably a better fate for the Universe than letting it expand forever until everything freezes, which is what would currently happen now, since a Big Crunch might allow another Big Bang to Happen and for the Universe to be reborn. But then, the Anti-Spiral's logic is flawed in a lot of ways.
**** I am under the impression that the reason the Anti-spirals waited until there were one million humans before attempting to destroy them was because the Anti-spirals were trying to ration the use of Spiral Energy (i.e. have enough mass generated to prevent the heat death of the universe, but not so much that the universe is destroyed in a Big Crunch) rather then prevent its use entirely.

*** But that's only going by Catholic doctrine (which given the setting, we can rule out)
* Who the hell do you think I am?
** Nobody.
** The goddamn Franchise/{{Batman}}.
** Spiral energy.
** A Gurren Lagann fan?
** A poor excuse for Kamina. Come on, grit those teeth and put some ''backbone'' into it!!
*** [+'''WHO THE ''HELL'' DO YOU THINK I''' +] [+++'''''AM'''''+++]???
* Who are those drill-chicks that Lord genome always has draped over him? We see them used as drills when Lazengann activates, and we see the same effect when TTGL activates for the first time, so are they actual people, say ex-Spiral Soldiers under Lord genome, or just beast-menesque ho-constructs?
** They're from a surface village populated entirely by cute girls, who Team Dai-Gurren saves in one episode. Lord genome uses them for genetic experiments - that's where Nia came from.
*** Yes. Genetic experiments...
* All the cuts made and commercials put in during Sci-Fi's showing of the last 3 episodes. Seriously, interrupting [[spoiler:Simon's escape from the Alternate Space Labyrinth, interupting the final Lagann impact with Quiznos commericials and cutting the huge explosions when the Anti-Spiral dies among other things...]]

* Is it me, or does Lordgenome look a ''lot'' like Jet from ''CowboyBebop''?
** [[MathematiciansAnswer Yes.]]
*** "Yes" you agree or "Yes" he's the only one?

*** So is the name of their power source really Anti-spiral Energy? I've actually been wondering about that recently.

*** ...Alright then. I was kind of hoping it would be something that, when it became a problem, could be solved like all of the other problems in the series. That is, by punching the problem.
**** Just so. The only weapon the Spirals can use against Spiral Nemesis is ''self-restraint''. And in the last episode, we see Simon master this ultimate weapon.

* There is a whole pit filled with (presumably) [[spoiler:Lord genome's boxed-up KIDS]]. That is shown in one, maybe two episodes, and NEVER SEEN/HEARD OF/ANYTHING AGAIN. I mean, I get that they're most likely dead, but show some decency. Put 'em in the ground, man.
** They ''buried them at the end of the episode''. Does nobody watch the shows they complain about anymore?

* Was it ever suggested Spiral Energy can bring someone back from the dead other than one kid in shock? My interpretation was less "he could have brought her back but refused" and more "Simon and Nia knew this was coming, so Simon is just grateful for the time he had with her."

** Attacking ''where''? The Beastmen bases are mobile. The reason Beastmen don't attack at night is because they have to sleep, otherwise they won't survive, not because their robots don't run. There are these things called capacitors and batteries you know.

*** Who says it ''needed'' a different power source to run? All the Beastmen in that episode claimed were that they were ''nocturnal''. If Ganmen can't run at night, how did they fight in the battle where they claimed the Dai-Gurren, where the sun wasn't out at all?

*** That's not really what I meant. That's how to pilot gunmen in general. Their TTGL is kinda special though, because it has more pilots than most gunmen. Well...an odd example would be a car. It would kinda be weird if there was more than one steering wheel, right? Since Team Gurren has different minds/wills, how exactly do they work in unison without "overriding" each other?
*** Since Gunmen are operated/powered by willpower, I think the whole reason TTGL was so powerful was because everyone was able to work in unison, with one person occasionally "taking lead" when they were deciding to talk. In fact, the whole "many working as one" thing is often a major theme in CombiningMecha series.
*** Ah, so they do take "turns". That makes since. Thanks for clearing that up.

* Why did the Anti-Spiral [[spoiler:show Lord genome about the Spiral Nemesis rather than just kill him? Did it just suspect that Lord genome would oppress humanity when shown this information, while the heroes of the series wouldn't?]]

*** It also speaks to the Anti-Spiral's preference for inflicting "ultimate despair" as opposed to simply destroying its foes. Trying to kill or destroy Spirals has the unfortunate tendency of pushing them harder and harder; every time he tried to squash Simon and the gang, they just got more powerful, until they were even breaking through ''inescapable deathtraps'' like the alternate-universe trap and the Death Spiral Machine. The only way to really defeat the Spirals is to completely and utterly eradicate them to the last man, or convince them to give up on their own accord out of despair. It worked just fine on Lordgenome and took humanity out of the equation for centuries; Simon just has enough innate optimism to believe in the chance that the Spirals could avoid Spiral Nemesis of their own accord, and enough of Kamina's LEEROY JENKINS mindset to bet on it.

*** I think it's that, and that they do use some Spiral Energy sometimes (they show a very "end justifies the means" mentality).

* Not to start any flames over spellings, but this really is just bugging me. All the official stuff I've seen (which is admittedly fairly little) show first-big-bad, Nia's-father, creator-of-Beastmen guy's name as "Lordgenome", one word. However, on this page and on WGM, most people are spelling it "Lord Genome", either as a first name-last name or as title-name... Why? If it's officially "Lordgenome" and has a reasoning behind it (from what I understand, so people don't confuse and back-translate it as "Genome-sama"), why spell it as two words? I mean, I can understand people who are new to the fandom (me, first nine eps!) that haven't seen it written out making it two words, but I was quickly corrected and it just seems silly to me... Anyways. Sorry for rambling and the overuse of hyphens here, but could someone please explain? Thanks!

*** Nope.
*** Alright then! Time to start on a massive fix!
*** WordOfGod says the reason they combined the word was so that the Japanese audience wouldn't think that Lord and Genome were first and last names. Since we're talking about it in English, it really * should* be translated "Lord Genome", because the lord was intended as a title to begin with.
*** Yet I've definitely heard him referred to as Lord genome-sama... Lord Lord Genome?
*** In my case it boils down to personal preference, at least. Really, "Lord Genome" sounds cool, and "Lordgenome" just sounds wierd, in my opinion.

* The final battle is so fast-paced and {{HSQ}}-high that we don't have time to appreciate Yoko's epic sniping feat. Weird scale aside, the Anti-Spiral's home planet is still a planet, and it shows up as about the same size as Earth, or at least within one or two orders of magnitude. The Grand Zamboa was attacking at the time, and so its head was moving, and the slightest twitch of a robot that size breaks relativity in half. So the planet was moving back and forth ridiculously quickly. And Yoko only takes a few seconds to aim at the thing. To summarize: Yoko snipes a planet moving back and forth at speeds so ridiculous that "superluminal" doesn't even come close to beginning to describe them, from across a galaxy, while under heavy fire, after aiming for only a few seconds, in one hit. Why does this not get more attention?
** ... Now that I think about it, that really is awesome. Added to the [=CMoA=] page.

*** So it's like: "We don't believe in ourselves, but we can believe in each other." support each other type thing? Like both of them holding the other one up?
**** Exactly. This is taken to its logical conclusion with [[spoiler:Kamina's dying words]], too. He's telling Simon "Hey, I'm not going to be able to support you anymore. But you can do it all on your own, trust me."

*** There's probably a LostTechnology tattoo parlor and sunglasses storage unit somewhere in Jeeha village.

*** Perhaps by imparting enough angular momentum (spinning the black hole a lot), they could shrink the black hole's event horizon, exposing the singularity. Then they could punch it. A lot. There's actually a bigger problem with the whole 'universe swallowed by black hole' idea: relativistically speaking, it would be very difficult for us to detect whether the entire known universe is ''already'' falling into a ridiculously massive black hole: the big scary part of a black hole is tides, not g-forces, and the tides generated by a black hole decrease with size. As to whether conventional physics has any place in this discussion... Eh.

*** Exactly. A universe in TTGL has a center of mass. Spiral Power breaks the law of conservation of energy, creating additional mass or energy from nowhere. It can go back away, as seen when a mid combat temporary repair gets undone. The rate at which Spiral Power bleeds back away from a given region of space is constant, while there is no limit on how much can be introduced. If too much power is used in a given amount of time, it drives the universe to critical mass, and it then collapses into a supermassive black hole. At this point, ANY use of Spiral Energy will make things worse. Trying to destroy with spiral energy only converts the matter to energy, which still has mass, and once the collapse starts, it's too late to shut down all usage, because as the size of the universe decreases, the mass needed to cause the collapse also decreases.
**** Note that some usages are more damaging than others. Perceptual teleportation, for example, merely relocates matter, and thus is reasonably safe to use.

* I hate to be nit-picky, but ''how'' did Lord genome create the beastmen? I mean, did he just take some animals, take some people, and use Spiral Power to duct tape them together? And for that matter, how did he make Viral immortal? It seems to me like that might have been put to better use in his generals, as opposed to a less-than-effective rival.

** The way Lord genome said it, it sounds to me like Viral can still be killed in conventional ways, his body merely got minor regeneration capabilities to help him live longer.
*** There is a species of Jellyfish in existance right now that has biological immortality, where it reverts back to it's "childhood" stage after a while (think it was after giving birth). It will still die if you blow it up. This is probably the way Genome used to make Viral immortal (give or take a few thousand years and a spiral-powered scientific genius will probably explain it).

*** Well, the only other female beastmen we see look human at first but can become more beastlike, so perhaps Adiane had a more scorpion-like form but never changed into it due to vanity (plus that'd just be really weird-looking). Alternately, based on Parallel Works 8, where the original beastmen look much more, well, bestial, perhaps Lord genome just perfected the technology over those 1000 years to make more humanoid soldiers. Cytomander was much younger than Guame, perhaps Adiane was too. Viral was fairly high-ranking under Thymilph, and we don't see anyone else of his rank, so perhaps Lord genome just began a tradition of making higher-ranked beastmen look more human than others to distinguish them.
**** Thymilph could be considered looking like a really weird human with gorilla DNA too.

** Well, once Lord genome modifies Viral, we never see Viral next to anyone until after the timeskip. Perhaps the Spiral King made him taller for whatever reason, and we just didn't notice without anybody to compare him to.
* Why do people still think that Gurren Lagann's message is to go beyond the impossible to do whatever you want? Shouldn't it be something like going beyond the impossible... [[spoiler:to go towards the future?]]
** Well, a central theme of the series is that destiny doesn't exist, and you make your own future. Within that context, the future IS whatever you want it to be. The two are interchangeable.
* Is there Anti-Spiral energy? That create anti-drills.
** Actually anti-spinning lances, but yeah.

*** I wasn't talking about the fact that we were listening to Japanese, but I'll address the point. I'll acknowledge that we're listening to TranslationConvention, but even then the whole setup still doesn't work. After 1,000 of the various groups being separated, there should have been language differences great enough that there wouldn't have to be only a handful of words explained because language is a living, evolving thing. Rossiu's society, for example, was completely barred off from everyone; they should have been unable to communicate because over 1,000 years, not only terms but entire rules of grammar and pronunciation change wildly (if you don't believe me, go listen to someone read in Old English, which is for the most part less than 1,000 years ago. If you think that it sounds like a completely different language, that's because it is). Not only was Rossiu able to communicate, he was able to understand and utilize phrases (IE: slang) without anybody misunderstanding him. That's just one example, but it should be placed upon every individual group. If this falls under any trope, it's EternalEnglish; but just because it can be categorized doesn't make it any less ridiculous.
**** True. You should really just ignore it, and assume they got past the language barrier offscreen. Also, while the villages haven't had any social intercourse ''recently'', there's no reason that inter-village commerce couldn't have been common earlier. Kamina's father had to have gotten to the surface ''somehow'', of course.
**** When I saw it, it was in english, make of that what you will.
**** I'm assuming that's the dub being failures and necessitating that EVERYTHING BE IN ENGLISH OMG.

*** Acutaly, if you think about it, he was inside Gurren the whole time. Each of the smaller Gurren Lagann's were piloting the bigger ones in turn, so it be safe to assume Viral was in Gurren durring the fight.
*** Except we're clearly shown that Viral is in Tengen Toppa's chest while Simon and Nia are in its head, and those are ''light-years apart''. Although you can't see the handles, the canopy design makes it pretty clear that Viral's in one of the older Laganns like everyone else. I just rewatched the episode, and the only thing that doesn't make sense is that when he throws Lagann, he's still shown in that cockpit, which I guess means that the old Lagann was inside Gurren, or something. That or it's an animation error.

* How could a show love spinning ''so'' much and yet not have any wheels.The couple of times we see basic transportation vehicles (i.e car analouges) they have 4 gunmen legs.
** It's a ''SuperRobot'' show.
*** I figured it had to do with the fact that, while wheels spin, it's only in an infinite, unbreaking circle, over and over- rather opposed to the concept of a spiral. Also because Spiral lifeforms evolve naturally to a humanoid form, so one assumes their vehicles would eventually reach that level and we're just seeing a midpoint.
** Why doesn't anyone have extreme OjouRinglets hair, like a drill?

* What would happen if team Dai-Gurren met the SOS Brigade?
** The same thing as the {{Musings}} page suggested for BillNyeTheScienceGuy meets Series/{{Mythbusters}} meets TopGear - ''Shit Fucking Blows Up Everywhere Forever''.
** Also, if Suzumiya ever sees the show [[RealityWarper who's to say it won't happen]]?

** Those aren't her sisters. Those are Lord genome's concubines. It'd be better to call them her aunts.
*** That still doesn't really answer the question. The girls in Beauty Village are not blue-green-skinned, but Lord genome's concubines are. What happens to them to cause this change?
**** Part of it is probably due to the lighting of the throne room. Alternately, Lord genome may have pulled some of his freaky genetic-manipulation stuff on them for his own amusement. There's certainly ''something'' wrong with them, they have happy expressions when they get turned into batteries for Lazengann...

** I thought it was a literal prologue to the beginning of the series. Just like Lordgenome before them, this was a group of Spiral Warriors that were trying to destroy the Anti-Spiral, but failed. Their similarities were just to drive home the point that Simon's team was the best. Kind of like in the Matrix when we find out there were like six Neo's before Keanu Reaves. BAsically it was really heavy foreshadowing to something we find out twenty episodes later.

*** That's... when you think about it, slightly brilliant. The "Spiral Nemesis" is Simon himself, gone off the rails and hell-bent on defending his right to use Spiral Power however he wants against the entire galaxy if he has to.

** Well, according to the kanji that spell out the titles of the films Gurren-hen (紅蓮篇) and Lagann-hen (螺巌篇):
*** Gurren is derived from 'Guren', which means 'Crimson Lotus'. The kanji '紅' can be read as 'gu', which means 'crimson'. The kanji '蓮' can be read as 'ren', for 'lotus'.
*** Lagann is derived from 'Ragan', which means 'Spiral Stone'. The kanji '螺' can be read as 'ra', which means 'spiral', and is the first part of the more full Japanese term for 'spiral', 'rasen'. The kanji '巌' can be read as 'gan', and means 'stone'. It makes a bit of sense that Kamina would name it Lagann; Simon dug it up out of the earth with a drill. A drill looks like a spiral from head-on, and Lagann was buried in rocks.
*** [[TitleDrop Heaven-Piercing Crimson Lotus Spiral Stone]]? Is it me or is that the best CallingYourAttacks ever?
*** FridgeBrilliance right there. Does that make the Simon's attack at the end of Lagann-hen a [[spoiler: Heaven-Piercing Crimson Spiral]]?

* Maybe it was a combination of pure badass and Super Spiral space, but if Lord genome can quantum divide himself into pure energy, then why couldn't they just do that to the Spiral nemesis? i mean that would turn the mass of said black hole into energy which would re-expand the universe. Correct me if i don't understand physics.

*** Actually, I was under the impression that the Generals were named after the four types of bases found in DNA: Thymine (Thymilph), Adenine (Adiane), Guanine (Guame) and Cytosine (Cytomander) to correspond with the fact that they were created via genetic engineering.
*** It's both. The Japanese are just that badass.

** You're confusing Beastmen with Spiral Warriors. The only remaining member of said technologically advanced society is Lord genome, excluding human descendants who are purposely locked underground and left technologically primitive. Beastmen are simply clones created by Lord genome to keep the human population in check and serve as his servants. Incidentally, all of the built/repaired ganmen are either ancient(thousand-years old) or created through the massive(again ancient) foundry ganmen each of the generals has, like the Dai-Gurren. It'd appear that Lord genome didn't control the entire planet because that WOULD be a logistical nightmare, but merely kept all the humans in the same area. So yeah, the Beastmen population is roughly what you see in the anime/movies and given the Lord genome relays all of his orders through the four generals who then pass it on to the mooks, it's not that much of a stretch that the Beastmen would be unable to read. They're considered expendable canon-fodder and given how they can communicate through ganmen comm's I doubt Genome would've found teaching them to read practical.

* So, what would happen if you gave {{BRIAN BLESSED}} a Gunman?
** Two things: first, all our eardrums would be permanently shot. Second, combination with William Shatner for the ultimate combination in hammy mecha.

*** If I recall correctly, most gunmen are different models and look different due to hundreds of years of excessive modding. The only ones that look alike are the crappy cannon fodder ones that are mass manufactured and thus fairly new. Odds are that even if the team started out in the generic gunmen, they'd eventually come across a far superior heavily customized 'one of a kind' gunmen which are basically not that uncommon by the series' standards and they would end up claiming those. On the other hand, the Cathedral does have super-sized versions of Gunmen that they own. Presumably just like with Gurren's first appearance, the Beastmen higher-ups have better mechs and again the team could've hijacked theirs given the heavily implied rebellion in the background.
*** I vaguely seeing various copies of the team's Gunmen during the crowd shots in the Teppelin battle, though I'd have to check for sure. And weren't the space Gunmen created specifically for them? Leite said Super Galaxy's "production rate was off the charts" or something like that. I assume there are a series of general bases or skeletons that are then built upon and customised as the pilot sees fit.

*** OP posting here. I'm rewatching the series right now, and Lordgenome just said to Rossiu (when Rossiu is interrogating his head), "Though i sealed it underground it was found by humans." while he was talking about Lagann. So he DID seal it underground. He was talking about how he put it there to hide it, but the humans found it... so... what the hell, Lordgenome?
**** Because, it's not "the humans" who found it. It was ''Simon the freaking Digger.'' Giha's chief said Simon had been digging unauthorized tunnels, so presumably Simon's Spiral-induced urge to dig and drill led him to go further than anyone else had or was supposed to (certainly it's the only time he had broken the rules, as timid as he was then), and thus ended up being drawn to the objects that would naturally respond to his power. Basically, Lordgenome never foresaw anyone as badass as him being born.

** Who says Cytomander's is the only squadron or whatever leader with flight tech? Most of the fighting up until the timeskip was done at flatland where walking is just as efficient (if more time-consuming) than flying, but one would think that in mountaneous areas and similar the Ganmen would be flight-capable. What I wanna know is, [[OffscreenMomentOfAwesome why did we never see these people capture their Ganmen?]]
*** You're missing my point- why exactly is it implied that Cytomander ''is'' the only one with flight tech? Again, ''the personal gunship of Thymilph, one of the Four Generals, cannot fly nor can any Gunmen under his command,'' but a bunch of mass-produced no-name copies can. Parallel Works 8 shows that all the Dai-Gunzans could fly, but this one's missing it's flight tech for no adequate reason.
*** Those "Dai-Gunzans" have drills, too. It's clearly not the same type of ship. Lordgenome didn't give it a levi-sphere because it was not intended for aerial combat. Giving everything flight capacities is just a waste of resources. In a real army, not everything has to be planes. The "cavalry" just happened to have hijacked the planes rather than the tanks.
* Also, where did Kiyalunga come from, and where did it go? It appears out of nowhere one episode without even a remark of stealing or finding it, and then post-time-skip it never appears again. Why was it the only one of the core team's Gunmen that didn't make it through? Would they have felt too obligated to kill Kiyal off if she was in the final battle, or did they not want any female leads other than Yoko and Nia? They could've fixed this in the movie too, hell, they gave Yoko a Gunman in both and Nia got her own Tengen Toppa. But nope, nothing for poor Kiyal...

*** Actually, it's likely that there were several Anti-Spiral races that eventually made themselves all look alike and they all went into hibernation on the same planet after nominating one of their number to stay awake to monitor the system (the Anti Spiral King)

*** No, she's clearly trying to cover her breasts in embarrassment behind Kamina in Gurren .

*** If it makes you feel better, Yoko just as guilty, staring at Kamina's naked rear in that episode, averting her eyes sheepish when he looked in her direction.
*** She isn't wearing that thing for ''comfort''. Have you noticed how little support its providing? That cannot possibly be comfortable.
*** I have cosplayed Yoko before. And really, it's easy to run around in, etc. But if my top flew off, I'd probably be extremely embarrassed like she was.

** The breathing in space question has been answered further up. The Gunmen were designed for space combat so probably have their own oxygen supply in some spirally way. As for oxygen underground, well, they might have tunnnels or something to the Surface they forgot about over the years, or some kind of oxygen machine Lordgenome provided them with. They may not be as far from the Surface as they seem.

*** Oh, I loved seeing Tengen Toppa Ganmen everywhere. The Nia rape was the only problem I had with the movie.
**** It's not literal, anyway. Exactly what parts would the Anti-Spiral use for such an act?
***** He's a shapeshifting eldritch abomination. He could easily create all sorts of phallic appendages and stuff to rape her with...Good Lord. I finally came up with something that broke my own mind.
* What is the problem with the Anti-Spiral? I mean, they're anti-villains, but why did they want to wipe out life until the "last scrap of '''D''' '''N''' '''A'''" to impede the Spiral Nemesis, basically stripping the universe from life? What's their gain, living in an eternal universe but without life isn't the same thing that having no universe? Or they suffered from a massive process of {{Flanderization}} in the last two episodes (from being {{KnightTemplar}}s whose objetive was only to control the amount of spiral life in the universe to ominiciads) or they are the most egoistic race in the universe. Well, it just bugs me.

*** So... Boota's transformation actually happened? I wonder then, if that means that everything we saw afterwards was actually someone's dream in the labyrinth. Boota certainly had no reason to revert back to normal (if he could). That only leaves WHOSE dream it was. Assuming Simon DID get everyone out of the labyrinth than no one would be left (aside from the ASK himself). Maybe Simon DIDN'T get out at all. He THOUGHT he did but didn't. In the show, we see human Boota also do that green light thing. Maybe Simon was aware that Boota had transformed but thought it was a part of the labyrinth so HIS labyrinth had Boota joining him (would also explain why Boota was standing up in that scene). So... the Dai-Gurren Dan never escaped the Multidimensional Labyrinth and thus never defeated the Anti-Spirals. Or maybe.. they did but... gah, [[SkywardScream DAMN IT, GAINAX!!!]]
**** I’m pretty sure Boota’s transformation only happened in the Multidimensional Labyrinth. After Simon breaks free we see all of the others leave their fantasies by seeing Simon escaping as the giant green comet and they all teleport to it. Boota in his human form one the bridge of the Super Galaxy Dai Gurren is also shown teleporting to Simon. Based on that it seems most likely that everything we see with the Anti-Spiral, Lordgenome and Boota in that episode is inside the Labyrinth.

* I was always bothered by the fact that Nia was the Anti-Spiral messenger, as it just seemed like an excuse to have Simon's new RelationshipUpgrade thwarted. The Anti-Spirals, after winning the first war against Lord Genome, planted Anti-Spiral genes in random humans on Earth in order to ensure they'd have one of their agents ready to activate by the population count reaching critical. I think it was Guame who mentioned that the all-women population of Beauty Village, the village where all of Lord Genome's concubines come from, was made up of girls who were specifically found to be most likely to produce offspring with Anti-Spiral genes; Lord Genome kept them all in one place to ensure they wouldn't reproduce on their own and spawn an Anti-Spiral without him knowing about it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if that was the case, why let the women bear his children in the first place? At first, I thought he was being smart by dumping the princesses whenever they achieved self-awareness in order to prevent them from becoming a threat/possibly unlocking their own spiral energy, but if he was going to dump them because of that, he should have just killed them outright to prevent any of them from ever escaping. Nia was lucky enough to be found by Simon, and [[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt we all know]] [[ApocalypseMaiden how that turned out.]] Besides, Lord Genome is a scientist. If he was able to create Beastmen, who are unable to reproduce, I think the guy could have easily splurged on birth control. My point being, if he was worried enough about Anti-Spiral's to even make Beauty Village in the first place, it seems ridiculous that he could be so careless with Nia.

*** WordOfGod, there we go. I still like my theory that Kamina is too awesome for a last name and Simon is still Simon the Digger. I wonder if Nia had lived past the ending if she would have gone from "Nia Tepplin" to "Nia the Gardener" considering her life goal...

*** Maybe if they said that they tried something to fix her, I could understand, but there is no mention of that anywhere. Unlike every other cause of death in the series she didn't: get in the way of, slow down, or stop an enemy. The act of her dying didn't accomplish anything, the cause of the death did but not the death itself. That's why I say that the death is completely pointless, because they didn't do anything to try and prevent it (or if they did, made no mention of it.)
** Why is it that when the Anit-Spiral is destroyed, Nia dies? Sure, she's connected to them, but that doesn't mean that she would just fade out of existence if someone pulled the plug and even if she would, her dress should have stayed behind.
*** In the dub, it's explained that she's an Anti-Spiral program running on human DNA.
**** I don’t buy that there was no way to prevent her death. Ignoring the fact that we have never seen something Spiral Energy can’t do, the show itself already created a precedent for stopping her death. The battery and motherboard analogies fail because Nia was still able to hold on for a week through sheer force of will. A computer won’t work at all without a motherboard and any thing that needs a battery and does not have another power source will instantly die. Nia survives proving she is capable of being her own power source. Since this done by her force of will she is most likely using Spiral Energy to survive. If we had to go with the analogy this leaves plenty of time for a new battery to replace the old one. I don’t see how Simon with his uber levels of Spiral Power cannot act as a replacement or completely change her DNA to a normal human. I can understand why they ended it how they did and I am not mad about it but people need to stop acting like there is no other possible ending other than resurrection and breaking the show’s messages because that is simply not true.

*** While that is more likely explanation, I still prefer mine. You know what? To hell with it. Spiral Power.

*** That would be Leite you're thinking of.
*** Thank you. I remembered the face but only had a vague remembrance of her name.

** ''All'' the Gunmen except for Gurren Lagann were destroyed, even those from the Dai-Gurren Brigade. They only "survived" in the end because Leite rebuilt them. She claims that she had help from a government official; perhaps Leeron had something to do with it? Save the main team's Gunmen in case of emergency, otherwise rely on the Grapearls, which were thought to be superior to the Gunmen anyway. Also, don't forget that no one had heard from the Anti-Spiral before they invaded. In fact, Rossiu only found out that the Gunmen were specifically designed to battle Anti-Spiral forces when the Arc-Gurren was ambushed in space and the Grapearls were already in the process of getting obliterated. Why they kept using them, even after learning that Gunmen were more effective... I don't know either.

*** So in other words, "It's magic; I don't have to explain it."
*** I'm sorry but there is simply no other way to explain it. The show describes it has evolutionary power or something. Spiral Power is essentially mana that is called forth and given form by hotblodedness. Neither the show nor the movies offer any explanation other than what I've told you and I don't think it needs one. Also, there are a few works that have mana and magic that are simply there from the beginning and offering no explanation as to where it came from. It's just there.
*** The person didn't ask where it came from. He/she asked how is it harnessed and controlled. There are few works that explain how someone can harness and control magic, but TTGL doesn't offer such explanation. And because of that, it leads to such questions being asked.
*** Oh. Well, that's really the only one that can be given in this instance. Well, either that or sheer hotbloodedness, willpower, and the desire to move forward in life.

*** Spiral hair dye?
**** Many people's hair darkens as they age.

** The Spiral Nemesis is bound to happen when you get spiral power usage + time. Simon was setting an example; you bring one person back from the dead, then not bringing others back from the dead is unfair.
* Why is it that everybody's problem with [[spoiler:Nia's death]] either is or is interpreted as that it couldn't be undone? I can understand a problem with NoOntologicalInertia, (That bugs me as well) but everybody's focused on the "can't undo it" part.
** He believed it because he knew on a subconscious level that it was true. [[spoiler:Lordgenome]] mentions that people with Spiral Power know about Spiral Nemesis on some level and says outright that that's why Simon believes it.
** Actually, most people are upset with the fact that it was little more than a pointless drama-bomb that kinda soured the epicness of the final battle.
*** It wasn't pointless, it was proof of Simon's point to the Anti-Spirals that humans can be trusted to not excessively use Spiral Power.
**** No, it was huge middle finger in the audience's face as the creators broke their own Aesop in a half-assed attempt to make the ending "deep." If I were in Simon's place, especially after everything he went through, I would have snapped and gone Heath Ledger's Joker on the whole universe.
***** Broke their own Aesop how? "Keep moving forward" doesn't mean "do whatever you want", it means not dwelling on the past and working towards a better future. Nia was clearly happy with passing on if it meant that humanity would survive and not cause the Spiral Nemesis. As for the second part, there's a reason why Simon is considered a hero, and you're not. He's not doing things for personal reasons - If he revived Nia, he'd be putting his own wants ahead of everyone else's.
****** The Joker's monologue from the Killing Joke. That is my answer to that statement.

*** No, not remotely. 'Firing in every direction' isn't anything like 'firing at literally every place and time that exists', for the reasons I put down. And again, where is everyone getting the notion from in the first place? I don't have a problem with Attenborough not firing everywhere at once, you understand. I just think we shouldn't be saying in examples that he did, because it's clearly false. Although, hey, if someone comes up with literally anything that says that's canonically what's happening, I'll happily accept that the universe doesn't explode because Spiral Power.
**** It's just a fancy, energetic way of saying what really happened. Their enemies were approaching them by phasing into the near-past and near-future to avoid any incoming counterfire, so Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann targeted and fired on every possible point in the immediate area in the near-past, present, and near-future so that their enemies would have nowhere to escape to.

* If the Anti-Spirals can create their own universe then why are they so batshit scared of Spiral Nemesis? Let that universe die from a Big Crunch, they have a dimension created for themselves so that they could survive forever. They even have a freaking MULTIDIMENSIONAL LABYRINTH, which means that the Anti-Spirals' hegemony are beyond the control of just one dimension, but many dimensions. The Anti-Spirals are pretty much omnipotent, and thus don't need to oppress other Spiral Races just to survive. The reason why Simon killed them all off in their own universe was because they spent too much time trying to play with a little Spiral lifeform when they could just isolated themselves. So why keep killing Spiral races when the Anti-Spirals can create their own universe?

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[[WMG:Main/TengenToppaGurrenLagann]]

* What was the "holy book" that Rossiu and his village held so dear? Sure, Rossiu says that its language doesn't match any ever recorded, so it was probably a joke someone made, but I don't buy that. Somehow, I doubt that someone would take the time to write an entire book and leave it in the hands of a village for generations to come as a practical joke. Was it ever elaborated on?

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