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** Maybe you missed something? Let's lay it out: [[soiler: Simon's drive for all of the second (third?) arc was rescuing Nia. Sure, there was saving all of the Spiral Races but that, at least in [[{Zelenal} this troper's]] opinion, was a secondary goal. A bonus, if you will. Simon and Nia were portrayed as the perfect couple and if you haven't noticed, Simon isn't all that social. The only people he really got along with were Kamina and Nia. Simon put pretty much everything he had on the line in order to save her and while he did succeed he never got to have a happy life with her. While a week is better then nothing it doesn't make it a happy ending (it does prevent it from being a Downer though). It gets even sadder when you compare it to other death. Everyone else went out on the blaze of glory in a HeroicSacrafice. Their deaths were not in vain whereas Nia's was simple and for nothing other then unnecessary angst. I'm pretty sure that the people who don't think Simon should have revived her or something (I am one, mind you, but I'
m still not happy with the ending) would agree that her death was basically DiablosExMachina. That's what makes it a BitterSweetEnding. Even if Simon took her death strangely well.
m still not happy with the ending) would agree that her death was basically DiablosExMachina. That's what makes it a BitterSweetEnding. Even if Simon took her death strangely well.
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**** Doing the same thing but without betraying Simon, crippling the military, and leaving humanity defenseless would have worked pretty nicely. He had little support in the government for that aspect of his plan, which is what draws the most dislike to him from fans. It was only necessary for quelling riots, but dooming the species is not an appropriate response to rioting.
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**** This bugged Rossiu too in the manga adaptation. He says in one of the 4koma: "Does this mean..... that in this day and age, flat-chested lolitas tend to be more universally popular among the consumers?"
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*** He did put a lot of thought in it. But really, what other choices were there? Even Kittan agreed with it. And so did everyone else in the government. Not one person in the government had any better plan.
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** Because he should have put more thought into it before risking so many lives. He betrayed his comrade for the sake of a stupid plan, which was doomed for reasons he should have been able to foresee. That's his responsibility, no matter what state of mind he was in.
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** Because he should have put more thought into it before risking so many lives. He betrayed his comrade and abandoned most of humanity for the sake of a stupid plan, which was doomed for reasons he should have been able to foresee. (He crippled the military, so when the obvious Anti-Spiral attack came after the ship launched, humanity was utterly defenseless.) That's his responsibility, no matter what state of mind he was in.
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* Here's something i just don't understand. Why does everyone hate Rossiu? I can understand hating him before you know whats REALLY going on with him... but after the show reveals his intentions, and why he was such a douche, its hard to blame him. [[spoiler: Even Kittan agreed with his choice to kill off half the earth.]] He also wasn't in his right of mind through that whole part. [[spoiler: You try to decide the fate of the entire earth within two weeks. Try to save everyone, but if you fail, everyone on the planet dies? Or save a small number of people for certain? Neither would have worked anyways, but still. Everyone needs to stop hating on him. He cried himself to sleep about it all, for god's sake!]] No one in the end really blames him for it. So why do the fans? He did what he thought was the most rational choice at the time.
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* Here's something i just don't understand. Why does everyone hate Rossiu? I can understand hating him before you know whats REALLY going on with him... but after the show reveals his intentions, and why he was such a douche, its hard to blame him. [[spoiler: Even Kittan agreed with his choice to kill off half the earth.]] He also wasn't in his right of mind through that whole part. [[spoiler: You try to decide the fate of the entire earth within two weeks. Try to save everyone, but if you fail, everyone on the planet dies? Or save a small number of people for certain? Neither would have worked anyways, but still. Everyone needs to stop hating on him. He cried himself to sleep about it all, for god's sake!]] No one in the end really blames him for it. So why do the fans? He did what he thought was the most rational choice at the time.
time.
** Because he should have put more thought into it before risking so many lives. He betrayed his comrade for the sake of a stupid plan, which was doomed for reasons he should have been able to foresee. That's his responsibility, no matter what state of mind he was in.
** Because he should have put more thought into it before risking so many lives. He betrayed his comrade for the sake of a stupid plan, which was doomed for reasons he should have been able to foresee. That's his responsibility, no matter what state of mind he was in.
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*** This troper has cosplayed Yoko before. And really, it's easy to run around in, etc. But if my top flew off, I'd probably be extremely embarrassed like she was.
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* Why is it that everyone treats the end as a DownerEnding or a [[BittersweetEnding Bittersweet Ending]]? Its happy! I mean, sure, [[Spoiler: Nia dies]] but its in a semi happy way, and it kinda makes sense... sorta. Everyone got a happy ending. For that matter, [[Spoiler: Simon]] is not a hobo. He looks more like a humble traveler, with some clothing damage suffered over the course of years. He's a bit like the main characters of the {{Fallout}} series. Maybe I'm just weird, but the ending just seemed happy to me.
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* Why is it that everyone treats the end as a DownerEnding or a [[BittersweetEnding Bittersweet Ending]]? Its happy! I mean, sure, [[Spoiler: [[spoiler: Nia dies]] but its in a semi happy way, and it kinda makes sense... sorta. Everyone got a happy ending. For that matter, [[Spoiler: [[spoiler: Simon]] is not a hobo. He looks more like a humble traveler, with some clothing damage suffered over the course of years. He's a bit like the main characters of the {{Fallout}} series. Maybe I'm just weird, but the ending just seemed happy to me.
* Here's something i just don't understand. Why does everyone hate Rossiu? I can understand hating him before you know whats REALLY going on with him... but after the show reveals his intentions, and why he was such a douche, its hard to blame him. [[spoiler: Even Kittan agreed with his choice to kill off half the earth.]] He also wasn't in his right of mind through that whole part. [[spoiler: You try to decide the fate of the entire earth within two weeks. Try to save everyone, but if you fail, everyone on the planet dies? Or save a small number of people for certain? Neither would have worked anyways, but still. Everyone needs to stop hating on him. He cried himself to sleep about it all, for god's sake!]] No one in the end really blames him for it. So why do the fans? He did what he thought was the most rational choice at the time.
* Here's something i just don't understand. Why does everyone hate Rossiu? I can understand hating him before you know whats REALLY going on with him... but after the show reveals his intentions, and why he was such a douche, its hard to blame him. [[spoiler: Even Kittan agreed with his choice to kill off half the earth.]] He also wasn't in his right of mind through that whole part. [[spoiler: You try to decide the fate of the entire earth within two weeks. Try to save everyone, but if you fail, everyone on the planet dies? Or save a small number of people for certain? Neither would have worked anyways, but still. Everyone needs to stop hating on him. He cried himself to sleep about it all, for god's sake!]] No one in the end really blames him for it. So why do the fans? He did what he thought was the most rational choice at the time.
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*** She isn't wearing that thing for ''comfort''. Have you noticed how little support its providing? That cannot possibly be comfortable.
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* Why is it that everyone treats the end as a DownerEnding or a [[BittersweetEnding Bittersweet Ending]]? Its happy! I mean, sure, [[Spoiler: Nia dies]] but its in a semi happy way, and it kinda makes sense... sorta. Everyone got a happy ending. For that matter, [[Spoiler: Simon]] is not a hobo. He looks more like a humble traveler, with some clothing damage suffered over the course of years. He's a bit like the main characters of the {{Fallout}} series. Maybe I'm just weird, but the ending just seemed happy to me.
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** This troper thought it was a result of Kamina trying to see her naked the whole episode that caused her to react that way. I figured she just didn't want to be sexualized like that. There's a difference between wearing a bikini top for convenience/comfort and somebody seeing what's underneath that for perverted reasons.
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** Maybe it's a cultural thing? Maybe it's more culturally accepted in the world of TTGL to show skin, but female nipples are taboo, and Yoko just never really thought about the FridgeLogic inherit in that particular rule. Also, in the fourth Parallel Works, she runs around in the Lagann topless, more peeved at Gimmy for [[spoiler:stealing her Bikini top]] than for having seen her nipples. Also, perhaps she enjoys ThesisTitillationTheory and believes that if anyone sees her nipples, her sex appeal will drop.
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** Maybe it's a cultural thing? Maybe it's more culturally accepted in the world of TTGL to show skin, but female nipples are taboo, and Yoko just never really thought about the FridgeLogic inherit in that particular rule. Also, in the fourth Parallel Works, she runs around in the Lagann topless, more peeved at Gimmy for [[spoiler:stealing her Bikini top]] than for having seen her nipples. Also, perhaps she enjoys ThesisTitillationTheory and believes that if anyone sees her nipples, her sex appeal will drop.drop?
** I'm more inclined towards the first explanation in that case, but I still don't quite buy it. She's a forward, confident woman who's not ashamed of herself, and she stands against certain doom more than once without batting an eyelid. Sh shouldn't have a problem with this! Meh, I guess it's just one of those things...
** I'm more inclined towards the first explanation in that case, but I still don't quite buy it. She's a forward, confident woman who's not ashamed of herself, and she stands against certain doom more than once without batting an eyelid. Sh shouldn't have a problem with this! Meh, I guess it's just one of those things...
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** Maybe it's a cultural thing? Maybe it's more culturally accepted in the world of TTGL to show skin, but female nipples are taboo, and Yoko just never really thought about the FridgeLogic inherit in that particular rule. Also, in the fourth Parallel Works, she runs around in the Lagann topless, more peeved at Gimmy for [[spoiler:stealing her Bikini top]] than for having seen her nipples. Also, perhaps she enjoys ThesisTitillationTheory and believes that if anyone sees her nipples, her sex appeal will drop.
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* Okay, here's a peeve of mine. Yoko is known for wearing what amounts to a bathing suit as her all-purpose getup. Why, then, does she suddenly seem mortally scared that anyone take a peek at her nipples? In the 5th episonde, when they pick up Rossiu, she seem genuinely surprised that someone would care how much skin she exposed. As soon as her top flies off, however, it's suddenly run-away-screaming time. Now, I realize every woman has a right to dress as they like without that implying anything else about them, but that's just two very different behaviours that I have trouble connecting to each other.
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** The Anti-Spiral was talking about ''ENORMOUS'' quantities of spiral energy(I believe he said something along the lines of "personal galaxies"), enough to overpower the expansive effect.
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** Rossiu seems to have thought it was entirely automated; if he thought about manual intervention at all, he probably assumed that they would've assumed lunar impact would've done it and at least waited long enough before eyeballing Earth that humanity could be ready. So likely he just didn't think it through(or was just hoping against hope).
* At the beginning of the second arc, mention's made of "the Anti-Spiral races", yet at the end it's all down to a single species. Was this a DubInducedPlotHole or what?
* At the beginning of the second arc, mention's made of "the Anti-Spiral races", yet at the end it's all down to a single species. Was this a DubInducedPlotHole or what?
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** Given what we learn a couple episodes later, Rossiu ''really'' was not in the best mental state at the time.
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* What kind of an OnlySaneMan fires his most competent military leader in the face of an invasion, anyway? Did Rossiu think they'd escape the planet and the Anti-Spirals would say "Oh, never mind then, carry on"?
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*** There is a species of Jellyfish in existance right now that has biological immortality, where it reverts back to it's "childhood" stage after a while (think it was after giving birth). It will still die if you blow it up. This is probably the way Genome used to make Viral immortal (give or take a few thousand years and a spiral-powered scientific genius will probably explain it).
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*** The whole basis of the "bring Nia back" argument seems to be based solely on "Simon saved the universe, he is god and he deserves one selfish wish". Simon made it clear that he never saw himself as anything more than a "driller", which was also the basis of his entire hotblooded, emo-exorcising speech to Guame. He's content with being just who he is, and taking what fate has handed to him. Saying that he should do otherwise means going out of character for him, which is the same as saying that the ending does not suit the series (it's "out of character"). Nia dying also wasn't some way for the writers to screw the characters over, it was (as many people have ALREADY pointed out here) a way to reinforce the AESOP and the ending, since this way we know Simon will not be tempted to abuse Spiral Power until accidentally causing Spiral Nemesis. This is also reinforced during the time where the entire Dai-Gurren team was in the dream world, where they saw their "ideal" life and realised how wrong it was. Simon and Yoko's were the best examples, Simon knew that the Kamina bowing before the cops wasn't really the type of person he wanted to be, while Yoko saw the idealized version of herself, and realised it wasn't her at all.
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*** Lordgenome's explanation of how Beastmen were inferior to humans is probably the in-universe reason. Viral had all of it, just that Kamina (and later Simon) had already surpassed him through their use of Spiral energy. Plus in the first episode, they did little more than annoy GL, much less do any noticable damage. Viral himself might not even be used to using them as an offensive weapon, resorting them to only as an escape plan or as a last-ditch effort.
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** The Anti-spiral avatar mentioned that all of this, down to how Nia rebelled in the end, had happened before (minus the part where they actually got beaten). Probably on many of the worlds there was still a Lordgenome-like figure oppressing their inhabitants, but when they suddenly sensed the death of the Anti-spirals, they all simultaniously contacted Earth (which was basically put on a galactic screen by the AS as an example) and rejoiced at being able to free their races again.
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**** It's proven in Parallel Works 8 that a Space Ganman is needed to allow a normal Ganman to work with Chouginga Gurren Lagann (or Cathedral Terra, as the case may be in the aforementioned video).
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** I figured the "wave" didn't refer to the kind you find in the ocean, but a "wave of destruction" which kind of fits his character and his personal gunship- and none of the other titles directly refer to an element, as I recall. As for the name derivatives, perhaps they switched the two because putting "cytosine" and "sylph" together makes some very awkward-to-pronounce names.
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*** This troper vaguely seeing various copies of the team's Gunmen during the crowd shots in the Teppelin battle, though I'd have to check for sure. And weren't the space Gunmen created specifically for them? Leite said Super Galaxy's "production rate was off the charts" or something like that. I assume there are a series of general bases or skeletons that are then built upon and customised as the pilot sees fit.
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** Parallel Works 8 shows that more than one Lagann fell to Earth. The whole planet was bombed at least twice in the series backstory, one could have been missed and pushed underground as a result of all the cataclysm. Plus it took a thousand years and one kid with the most Spiral Power ever produced in the right place at the right time to find it anyway. The real question is, how and why did they all get to Earth?
* As awesome of a scene as it is, when the cavalry shows up to save the day in the battle for Teppelin, how did their gunships all have the capacity to fly? They're pretty clearly based off Dai-Gunzan/Dai-Gurren, but yet it seems they have superior technology. The team only got their flight tech after beating Cytomander, and he only fought them after deducing they were weak against airstrikes. So why could one of the Four Generals' own battleships not fly when a bunch of lesser versions could?
* Also, where did Kiyalunga come from, and where did it go? It appears out of nowhere one episode without even a remark of stealing or finding it, and then post-time-skip it never appears again. Why was it the only one of the core team's Gunmen that didn't make it through? Would they have felt too obligated to kill Kiyal off if she was in the final battle, or did they not want any female leads other than Yoko and Nia? They could've fixed this in the movie too, hell, they gave Yoko a Gunman in both and Nia got her own Tengen Toppa. But nope, nothing for poor Kiyal...
* As awesome of a scene as it is, when the cavalry shows up to save the day in the battle for Teppelin, how did their gunships all have the capacity to fly? They're pretty clearly based off Dai-Gunzan/Dai-Gurren, but yet it seems they have superior technology. The team only got their flight tech after beating Cytomander, and he only fought them after deducing they were weak against airstrikes. So why could one of the Four Generals' own battleships not fly when a bunch of lesser versions could?
* Also, where did Kiyalunga come from, and where did it go? It appears out of nowhere one episode without even a remark of stealing or finding it, and then post-time-skip it never appears again. Why was it the only one of the core team's Gunmen that didn't make it through? Would they have felt too obligated to kill Kiyal off if she was in the final battle, or did they not want any female leads other than Yoko and Nia? They could've fixed this in the movie too, hell, they gave Yoko a Gunman in both and Nia got her own Tengen Toppa. But nope, nothing for poor Kiyal...
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**Well, a central theme of the series is that destiny doesn't exist, and you make your own future. Within that context, the future IS whatever you want it to be. The two are interchangeable.
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**** Yeah, me too. To add she was japanese and, according to her, yes they were real (they looked real enough to me). Ony difference is that she was way shorter than Yoko.
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**** Yeah, me too. To add she was japanese and, according to her, yes they were real (they looked real enough to me). Ony difference is that she was way shorter than Yoko.
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**** Yeah, me too. To add she was japanese and, according to her, yes they were real (they looked real enough to me). Ony difference is that she was way shorter than Yoko.
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*Am I honestly the only one bugged by some of the character interactions that take place early in the post-timeskip episodes? Seriously, some of the ways that these characters behave around each other makes it feel less like they’ve been working together, striving to build a stable new society for seven years and more like they were all stuck into plot-induced, isolated incubation chambers, then plopped into the shiny new setting with similarly plot-convenient roles to play.
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*** Also, Nia is "cute" and "new", while Yoko is so "first episodes' news" and, if memory serves me right, quite agressive to people showing affection to her. If that doesn't do it for you, then all I have to say is this: She's Kamina's hoe, you sure you wanna go after the girl belonging to the only man who could seriously get out of the screen and punch the telespectator in the face??
*Am I honestly the only one bugged by some of the character interactions that take place early in the post-timeskip episodes? Seriously, some of the ways that these characters behave around each other makes it feel less like they’ve been working together, striving to build a stable new society for seven years and more like they were all stuck into plot-induced, isolated incubation chambers, then plopped into the shiny new setting with similarly plot-convenient roles to play.
*Am I honestly the only one bugged by some of the character interactions that take place early in the post-timeskip episodes? Seriously, some of the ways that these characters behave around each other makes it feel less like they’ve been working together, striving to build a stable new society for seven years and more like they were all stuck into plot-induced, isolated incubation chambers, then plopped into the shiny new setting with similarly plot-convenient roles to play.
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** Ah, screw this. It's a Spiral Energy Rifle.
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** Ah, screw this. It's a Spiral Energy Rifle.Rifle, it can do whatever the hell Yoko wants it to do. This also explains why sometimes it harms Gunmen and others it doesn't.
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** Ah, screw this. It's a Spiral Energy Rifle.
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**[[strike: Spiral Energy]] Because Kamina is, and always will be, more popular.
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** It's implied that this is a Lagann from long ago, which was either never discovered, or lost. Lordgenome KEEPS his Lagann, and destroys all the other ones he knows about.
