History Headscratchers / Tekken

* I've always been confused/curious of how Jin Kazama was conceived.
** Jin was obviously conceived out of wedlock. Supposedly Jun had some sort of "soft spot" for Kazuya at some point, but there is never anything that suggests that the feeling was mutual or that the two were even in love. Kazuya clearly had his own issues going on and (from what I understand) didn't take part in his son's upbringing which is one of the reasons why Jin uses his mother's last name. So I guess my question is. . .was the conception of Jin consensual? Did Kazuya actually have affection for Jun at some point but left because he knew about his cursed bloodline and didn't want to involve her? Or did he, as they say, "have his way then go on his way"?
** It was pretty much an "one night stand" with her, one would guess. The story of ''6'' does make it clear that their relationship was consensual - Kaz did feel attraction for Jun and viceversa. They most likely had a one night stand while competing in the second King of Iron Fist (''Tekken 2''), but then their relationship went to nowhere as Kaz was soon knocked out and dropped into a volcano by Hei (only to reappear several decades later, courtesy of the G Corporation) and Jun herself went missing after her fateful encounter with Ogre prior to the third tournament.
** The problem with the idea that Kazuya and Jun had a consensual relationship/one night stand is that Jun hates Kazuya. Her backstory is that she is an animal rights activist who joined the tournament because she had heard that Kazuya was breeding genetically engineered fighting animals such as Roger and Alex and wanted to stop him. To go from that to having sex with the guy seems unlikely. And when you consider that the series narrative does seem to imply at several points that Jun and Angel are in fact the same person, then that leads us to the unfortunate conclusion that it was Devil and Angel as Kazuya and Jun that had sex in order to create Jin. Go and watch the end of the opening cinematic to Tekken 2: Angel clearly isn't lovingly embracing Devil there - that's a red-eyed Kazuya.
** Jun doesn't hate Kazuya; she's pretty much the poster girl for AllGirlsWantBadBoys within the franchise. She's been consistently portrayed as wanting to redeem Kazuya and free him from his own evil, in both Tekken 2 and now in Tekken 8. That should be a clear indicator that she truly loves him to some degree. If anything, Kazuya is more likely the one who hates Jun (not viceversa), or at the very least he despises her, given how he has completely given in to evil and scoffs at her attempts to redeem him, perhaps deeming such notions of redemption as "pathetic", not to mention he knows Jin (his enemy) was born out of his relationship with her. In Kazuya's Tekken Tag 2 ending, he necklifts Unknown's body (actually he grabs her by her face, but you get the idea) and drains her power/energy/lifeforce to boost his own Devil powers and then drops her like a lifeless, empty husk, flying away and leaving her to die there. Seriously, how would you think Jun hates Kazuya? It's more like 'the other way' around. However, Kazuya's descent into villainy was gradual, and at the time of Tekken 2, when he met Jun for the first time, may not have been complete (for sure he assimilated Devil into his own during the events of the fourth tournament, i.e. much later in the story). Kazuya may still have had some humanity back then, which might explain why he was attracted to Jun in the first place.

* What the heck ''is'' the "Fallen Colony" in 6?
** [[RuleOfCool AWESOME.]]
** Canonically, there's colonies floating in Earth's orbit. "Fallen Colony" is one that's plummeting to the ground (or suspended in mid-air).
** Clearly an homage to ''Franchise/{{Gundam}}''. Even the mansion you fight on is reminiscent of an episode in ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamZZ''.
* The campaign mode of Tekken 6 just a quick vote who wanted a beat em up for this games story.
* Eddy's father's plan to "protect" his son. Does he really think that prison would be safe? Or, more importantly, that being sent to prison for several years, possibly for life, would be better than simply going into hiding?
** He must have known Christie's grandfather was in the knick, to get Eddy out of a riot and teach him Capoeira. That actually seems kind of believable.

* If Paul went on to fight Ogre in the third tournament, does that mean Jin lost to him in the final then was chosen to fight True Ogre because he was second?
** Possibly. Paul was the only one whose record in the third tournament was actually mentioned, but it's unknown how well Jin fared. Presumably, he'd have to be of high standing in the tournament ladder if he killed True Ogre after Paul finished bulldozing the rest of the competition.

* Why does the main page state that Tekken Blood Vengeance is canon when it is so radically different and outright contradictory to anything established previously? A few examples: Xiaoyu's school uniform being a different colour, sumo wrestler and ex Mishima Zaibatsu henchman Ganryu being a school teacher, Lee also being a teacher, Panda having super speed despite being one of the slowest fighters in the franchise, Alisa having absolutely no previous evidence she even knows Xiaoyu let alone went to high school with her, no mention of her best friend Miharu, Devil Kazuya and Devil Jin's completely different look, Mokujin being a fifty foot fire demon instead of a six foot wooden dummy? ''This list goes on and on...''
** I don't get it either. The ''BV'' page once had a ContinuitySnarl example listing several ''glaring'' continuity errors that'd render it impossible for the movie to be canon. ''Tag 2'' referencing ''BV'' is fine since the game is (for all intents and purposes and {{Sequel Hook}}s aside) non-canon, but I can't fathom ''BV'' being canon to ''7'' without some sort of HandWave {{Retcon}}.

* Why was Christie's Grandfather in Jail?
** From an writer's standpoint, I'd say plot convenience. But it's possible he was framed.

* Jun dislikes deception, yet she tells her son if anything happened to her to find [[BigBad Heihachi.]] Not [[NatureHero Michelle?]] Or [[SuperCop Lei?]] Or [[BigGood Angel?]] Someone she should know all about how deceitful he is? What, the fact he keeps bears enough to sway her?
** Is there any canon proof that Jun actually knows Michelle, Lei or Angel beyond beating them up at tournaments? and that supposes she actually faced them in the first place. What I have always wondered is why in-universe she didn't send him off to Asuka Kazama's family.
** Supplemental material such as comics and films suggests she does, and if you look at Angel's ending it's strongly hinted that Jun is TheLancer to her. But if they're out let's look at the idea below, who does Jun get along with? Nina, retrospectively, and I think she was okay with Baek as well, as in more positive than most of the cast. But why Heihachi of all people? Just chalk it up to having horrible taste in men?
*** No, Jun is not TheLancer to Angel; Jun is TheHero of ''2'' while Angel is more of the BigGood. Jun is TheHero of ''Tekken 2'' (because both Heihachi and Kazuya are evil, Jun is out to stop Kazuya while all the other fighters are side characters), and both Jun and Angel are working towards the same goal (redeeming or otherwise turning Kazuya good) but they are NOT teaming up, they aren't working in concert, and they are dealing with Kazuya's redemption in their own separate, independent ways — Jun is dealing directly with Kazuya, while Angel is dealing with Devil. In fact, while it is hinted that Angel is aware of Jun (in her ending), the reverse is not hinted to be true, Jun doesn't even seem to know about Angel's existence. The only connection between Jun and Angel is their common goal of redeeming Kazuya and that they both apparently can dispel the effects of the Devil Gene on him (a trait also shared with Asuka as seen in her ''Tekken 5'' ending) but there is no connection or relationship between them otherwise. Even so, the Kazama's dispelling of the Devil Gene to "purify" the Mishimas is, as of ''Tekken 6'', being treated as an AbortedArc, with Asuka being entangled in a rivalry with Lili and Jun still "missing" while the Mishimas (including Jin, of course) are still feuding among themselves.
*** Now that you mention it, considering she doesn't seem to get along with Asuka in Tag tournament 2, it's possible she's estranged from that side of the family. It would explain why she never told Jin to go to them and sent him to Heihachi instead.
*** I headcanon the idea that the new DarkerAndEdgier Jun that we see in Tag 2 is actually the kind of agent that her Kazama clan intended her to be, as if it had removed all of her 'weakness' so to speak, and restored her to what was considered her default state, or prime. It's possible that the Kazama clan were [[ObstructiveZealot rather ruthless in their morality]] and that Jun wasn't all [[PetalPower flower power]] initially, but rather grew away from her clan and became the iconic caring Jun (possibly due to her relationship with Kazuya, or being a mother to Jin).
** My guess, in response to why Jun told Jin to find Heihachi, was because Heihachi made her AnOfferYouCantRefuse; either she allows Jin to be raised by him (and to be fair, he does raise Jin better than Kazuya... [[SpannerInTheWorks until Jin kills Ogre, ruining his latest scheme]]), OR he'll send GunsForHire to drag Jin away if he's told to live with somebody else, and [[PlayingWithSyringes then would do only God knows what to him afterwards]]. Jun was caught between a rock and a hard place, and thus took the option that would give Jin more time to train before inevitably needing to come to blows with Heihachi.
** He would have gone home short a couple of limbs if he tried. Jun kicked Devil's ass and could handily handle either Ogre. She wouldn't just break Heihachi's arm she'd rip it right off.
*** Ok, to add an ademendum to the last part, Jin would only go to Heihachi AFTER Jun died (which, [[GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere thanks to Ogre]], [[BusCrash probably made it happen FAR faster than what Jun intended]]) - and again, if she sent Jin to somebody else, they wouldn't just face Heihachi chasing after them, but [[HiredGuns the entire TEKKEN Force]], (which, in even the earliest games, were depicted as a full-fledged NGOSuperpower). In essence, if Jun sent Jin to [[NatureHero Michelle]] or [[SuperCop Lei]], they would have a "YouAndWhatArmy" moment when Heihachi sics the TEKKEN Force on them - [[CurbStompBattle and likely would've lost in that moment too]].

* Why doesn't Law fight Azazel in Tekken 6's Arena Mode? Raven doesn't because he's Lars' assistant at the time, so there's that. But every other character does. And while Law, Paul and Steve are all in a slate to share their efforts, and divide the prize, Paul and Steve fight Jin and Azazel, but Law doesn't. I really don't get it.

* Why is Jin Kazama treated (both by the game and this wiki) as retaining his Hero status in Tekken 6? He's simply a [[WellIntentionedExtremist well-written villain]]; he had a good reason for starting WWIII in his opinion, but that doesn't exactly wash away the blood of innocents that he's drenched in by the time he defeats Azazel. [[BadassNormal Paul, Lars and Heihachi]] all prove that the strength of people is tough enough to take down supernaturals in the Tekken universe, so Jin's assertion that he is the only person capable of defeating Azazel seems like pure arrogance. Sometimes you have to TakeAThirdOption, and Jin...didn't.
** But Lars wasn't actually able to kill Azazel. He beat him in a fight, but the latter just got back up again. I think what Jin meant is that he was the only one who could put the latter down permanently. I do think he may qualify as more of a WellIntentionedExtremist then a full on hero. In fact, I bet Jin himself would never consider himself a hero after what he's done.
** Maybe he's been corrupted by the Devil Gene?
** For the life of me, I don't see how is Jin "treated as a hero" in Tekken 6 or any other games after that. His dialogue with Lars in the latter's Scenario Campaign makes it clear that he's a WellIntentionedExtremist and HeWhoFightsMonsters (Jin even quotes Nietzche's "if you gaze into the abyss long enough, the abyss also gazes back at you" on that one). That he's still the Protagonist of Tekken doesn't mean he's a hero. He's clearly been swinging the gamut from AntiHero to AntiVillain and back. Also, regarding "humans being strong enough to beat up supernaturals" in the Tekkenverse, the only human who did this feat was young Heihachi in his physical prime, when he defeated and killed Devil Kazumi as seen in Tekken 7's Story Mode. Canonically Paul defeated Ogre's first humanoid form in the third tournament, but did not defeat Ogre's True form. Similarly Lars defeated Azazel in Tekken 6 Scenario Campaign but failed to account for Golden Azazel (who was defeated by Devil Jin in the end).

* What IS the story of ''Tekken 6''? Did the tournament ever happen or does Scenario Campaign replace it?
** I believe that the sixth tournament does happen but Scenario Campaign does apply only for Lars and Alisa (who are the two new characters for Bloodline Rebellion). Since those two have no Prologue or Epilogue in their Arcade and they both are the focus of Scenario Campaign it's easy to assume this does happen. What's not very clear is if their adventures in SC happen before, after or simultaneously along the tournament.

* ''8'' 's [[TheStinger Stinger]] epilogue has Reina becoming a Devil despite being Heihachi's daughter with another woman and that the Devil Gene is ''matrilineal''. Could Reina's mother be another survivor of the Hachijo clan?

* Who sent the Jack robots to kill Heihachi and destroy Honmaru? And why?
** It was confirmed in Tekken 6 that it was G-Corp, presumably to remove the closest thing the series had to a BigBad (and was also possibly targeting Kazuya as well). Kazuya, in return, proceeded to slaughter the G-Corp members who presumably sent the Jacks against him, and take over the company too.

* Okay, spoilers for 7 I guess; Heihachi gambits the situation where he proves to the world that Kazuya is a devil before obliterating G Corp's HQ with his KillSat. Fine, but soon after Kazuya blows the satellite out of the sky and it destroys a town, while G Corp rather transparently starts the rumor that Mishima Zaibatsu dropped it out of the sky for... lulz, I guess? The whole world then kinda forgets that G Corp was run by an actual devil and starts blaming the Zaibatsu because they're only capable of doing one thing at a time. Question: Why the hell did Mishima not try and spin this in any way? Why did they not claim (somewhat rightly) that G Corp espionage was responsible for the disaster? Hell, why not secure footage from one of a million potential sources that shows Devil Kazuya's shoop-da-whoop from G Corp's ruins. Why did they not even try to say "hey, that incident was terrible, but the rumors we caused it intentionally have no grounds because it's far more likely that our corporate rival - ''which was ran by an actual DEVIL'' - did it than the possibility that Heihachi got drunk one night and stumbled onto the 'CRASH MULTI-TRILLION YEN SATELLITE INTO MIANUS FOR A CHUCKLE' button."

* Two thoughts on Alisa; one of them being questionable: (1) Can she feel pain? I mean, it wouldn't make much sense for her to be able to feel pain, when there are probably ways for a machine like herself to monitor physical condition, and (2) According to the main page for this section, all females except for Xiaoyu, Jun and I guess Leo fall under FanServicePack, havely impressive busts, but I never thought she was that big....or has my years of [[BuxomIsBetter anime females with bowling ball breasts]] [[ArmourPiercingQuestion simply left me with a questionable opinion of size?]]

** Didn't Lee train under Paul and Law in America for a time? He's most likely bilingual. Lee most likely stuck with English after he was exiled by Heihachi to keep appearances, as suggested by the second Troper (notice that Violet speaks in fluent English in both ''4'' and during certain parts of ''[=TTT2=]'', his intro quotes and [Fight Lab] ending in particular). Once the ruse was discovered and Lee's identity revealed, he probably thought to himself, "Screw it. No need to keep this up" and decided to go back to speaking Japanese for the most part.

* Why is Jin Kazama treated (both by the game and this wiki) as retaining his Hero status in Tekken 6? To this troper's eyes, he's simply a [[WellIntentionedExtremist well-written villain]]; he had a good reason for starting WWIII in his opinion, but that doesn't exactly wash away the blood of innocents that he's drenched in by the time he defeats Azazel. [[BadassNormal Paul, Lars and Heihachi]] all prove that the strength of people is tough enough to take down supernaturals in the Tekken universe, so Jin's assertion that he is the only person capable of defeating Azazel seems like pure arrogance. Sometimes you have to TakeAThirdOption, and Jin...didn't.

** For the life of me, I don't see how is Jin "treated as a hero" in Tekken 6 or any other games after that. His dialogue with Lars in the latter's Scenario Campaign makes it clear that he's a WellIntentionedExtremist and HeWhoFightsMonsters (Jin even quotes Nietzche's "if you gaze into the abyss long enough, the abyss also gazes back at you" on that one). That he's still the Protagonist of Tekken doesn't mean he's a hero. In this troper's opinion he's clearly been swinging the gamut from AntiHero to AntiVillain and back. Also, regarding "humans being strong enough to beat up supernaturals" in the Tekkenverse, the only human who did this feat was young Heihachi in his physical prime, when he defeated and killed Devil Kazumi as seen in Tekken 7's Story Mode. Canonically Paul defeated Ogre's first humanoid form in the third tournament, but did not defeat Ogre's True form. Similarly Lars defeated Azazel in Tekken 6 Scenario Campaign but failed to account for Golden Azazel (who was defeated by Devil Jin in the end).

* Is it just me or is Namco determined to make Yoshimitsu look DarkerAndEdgier with each sequel? In the first game, he was just a silly-looking [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot roboninja thing]]. Then Tekken 2 came along and he was given evil red eyes and vampire teeth, as well as a darker colour scheme. Tekken 3, he's a scary alien cyborg. Then he has a friggin SKULL FACE complete with GlowingEyesOfDoom, then there's that sudden voice change, and now...[[http://www.tekkenpedia.com/w/images/f/fa/Yoshimitsu_t-6_wallpaper.jpg oh hell.]] Thank god for customization.
** It's a matter of personal opinion. Realistically speaking, Yoshi's designs have been hit-and-miss throughout ''both'' series.
* Leo's gender. Period.

** Speaking of Poison, this troper believes that Miharu's model (in ''Tag 2'') could be the basis of Poison for ''Tekken x Street Fighter''. Given how both have very similar costumes...
** To answer the question, she's ''just'' female. A {{Bifauxnen}}, yes, but not a trap or anything of the sort.

** Alternatively, ''This Troper'' thinks his appearances in the Soul Calibur/Soulcalibur games are fairly silly.