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* So, at the end of the game [[spoiler: Eizen goes back to sailing the seas with his pirate crew, even though they can no longer see him]]. How far does that actually go in intercepting communication, though? Surely, they still know he's there? Presumably, they'd notice when in battle, some random mook is suddenly sent flying for no discernible reason. Besides that, can he interact with them through objects? Pick up a random rock and throw it in the air once for "yes" and twice for "no" (maybe not a good idea given the Reaper's Curse, but still)? Write letters?

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* So, at the end of the game [[spoiler: Eizen goes back to sailing the seas with his pirate crew, even though they can no longer see him]]. How far does that actually go in intercepting communication, though? Surely, they still know he's there? Presumably, they'd notice when in battle, some random mook is suddenly sent flying for no discernible reason. Besides that, can he interact with them through objects? Pick up a random rock and throw it in the air once for "yes" and twice for "no" (maybe not a good idea given the Reaper's Curse, but still)? Write letters?letters? Hold up signs?
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** Velvet wasn't exactly thinking rationally, between the stress of fleeing the deamons and her desperation to stop it she probably wasn't thinking about anything other than "No no no" or "Stop Stop Stop".

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** Velvet wasn't exactly thinking rationally, between the stress of fleeing the deamons and her desperation to stop it she probably wasn't thinking about anything other than "No no no" or "Stop Stop Stop".Stop".

!! Extent of malakhim invisibility
* So, at the end of the game [[spoiler: Eizen goes back to sailing the seas with his pirate crew, even though they can no longer see him]]. How far does that actually go in intercepting communication, though? Surely, they still know he's there? Presumably, they'd notice when in battle, some random mook is suddenly sent flying for no discernible reason. Besides that, can he interact with them through objects? Pick up a random rock and throw it in the air once for "yes" and twice for "no" (maybe not a good idea given the Reaper's Curse, but still)? Write letters?
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*** They were caught off guard by Laphicet actually doing what Velvet told them and didn't have time to do anything as a result.



* Why does Velvet think Laphicet was murdered by Artorius? She stumbles upon the area where Artorius and Laphicet are and Laphicet yells at her to run away, but does nothing himself. Even with the lighting of the area, it's clear to see that Laphi did not look terrified or unknowing. He knew what was happening, even closing his eyes and being prepared to die for the sake of the ritual. Yes, Velvet doesn't ''know'' this, but the imagery should give her an idea that this wasn't a murder. But a willing sacrifice on Laphi's part.

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* Why does Velvet think Laphicet was murdered by Artorius? She stumbles upon the area where Artorius and Laphicet are and Laphicet yells at her to run away, but does nothing himself. Even with the lighting of the area, it's clear to see that Laphi did not look terrified or unknowing. He knew what was happening, even closing his eyes and being prepared to die for the sake of the ritual. Yes, Velvet doesn't ''know'' this, but the imagery should give her an idea that this wasn't a murder. But a willing sacrifice on Laphi's part.part.
** Velvet wasn't exactly thinking rationally, between the stress of fleeing the deamons and her desperation to stop it she probably wasn't thinking about anything other than "No no no" or "Stop Stop Stop".

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* So at a certain point in the game the group is looking specifically for therion demons for plot reasons. They return to Titania, and they need to go all the way back to the cell she was imprisoned in to figure out that 'she's' the therion. When Artorius called her that as soon as she became one and she's been referring to herself as a therion the entire game. How did none of them already know this, when some of them had even asked her specifically 'what's it like being a therion?'?

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* So at a certain point in the game the group is looking specifically for therion demons for plot reasons. They return to Titania, and they need to go all the way back to the cell she was imprisoned in to figure out that 'she's' ''she's'' the therion. When Artorius called her that as soon as she became one and she's been referring to herself as a therion the entire game. How did none of them already know this, when some of them had even asked her specifically 'what's it like being a therion?'?therion?'?
** At that time, they were mostly looking for Earthpulse Points, and not therions themselves. If recalling correctly, the party returned to Titania for reasons that had nothing to do with therions or Earthpulse Points, and Laphicet merely noticed there was a such a point nearby. When the party went to the point and wondered about the corresponding therion, Velvet points out that this was her old cell and that she had been used by Artorius. So, them not making the connection fits because the revelation of Titania ''having'' an Earthpulse Point came seconds before they wondered about the therion for the island -- nobody but Velvet knew in what part of the jail she used to be imprisoned in, so Rokurou (and Magilou) may not have made the connection.

!! Velvet thinking Laphicet was murdered
* Why does Velvet think Laphicet was murdered by Artorius? She stumbles upon the area where Artorius and Laphicet are and Laphicet yells at her to run away, but does nothing himself. Even with the lighting of the area, it's clear to see that Laphi did not look terrified or unknowing. He knew what was happening, even closing his eyes and being prepared to die for the sake of the ritual. Yes, Velvet doesn't ''know'' this, but the imagery should give her an idea that this wasn't a murder. But a willing sacrifice on Laphi's part.
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** It was mentioned somewhere that malakhim were visible in Avarost era, and that it was very magically advanced. Maybe conversations in these days included partial telepathy/empathy, to better convey meaning, with language specifically suited, and these skills were taught even to children? In that case it foreshadowes true power of Phi, since he can grasp in intuitively. Or shows his connection with Innominat, who definitely knows Avarostic.
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** It's something that got made up by the rumour mill. Artorius presented himself as "a sword of reason against calamity", so Velvet who opposes him came to be called "the calamity" due to her opposing him which, due to information on Velvet, such as her being a woman, being scarce, mutated into "The Lord of Calamity".
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** Second: why didn't Teresa and Eleanor defend themselves? They're both Praetor level exorcists and had more than enough time to see the attack coming. Yet, [[PlotInducedStupidity they just stood there and took it.]] At the very least, you'd think Teresa would've had [[BeatThemAtTheirOwnGame No.1 counter Laphicet.]]

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** Second: why didn't Teresa and Eleanor defend themselves? They're both Praetor level exorcists and had more than enough time to see the attack coming. Yet, [[PlotInducedStupidity they just stood there and took it.]] At the very least, you'd think Teresa would've had [[BeatThemAtTheirOwnGame No.1 counter Laphicet.]]]]
!!Velvet being a therion suddenly a mystery?
* So at a certain point in the game the group is looking specifically for therion demons for plot reasons. They return to Titania, and they need to go all the way back to the cell she was imprisoned in to figure out that 'she's' the therion. When Artorius called her that as soon as she became one and she's been referring to herself as a therion the entire game. How did none of them already know this, when some of them had even asked her specifically 'what's it like being a therion?'?
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**Another possible way to think about this is that what Grimoihr is describing is not the language itself, but the necessary steps to be able to translate it into the current, modern language. Even in the real world, translating between two languages that have a completely different root language is incredibly difficult. Japanese to English, for example is an exceptionally tricky one, as there are Japanese words that have several different meanings when translated to English, which can vary wildly depending on the surrounding words and context, and there are even words that can't even BE translated into English, as there is no english equivalent to the word. This actually leads this to be potential fridge brilliance, as later we learn that the world is in a cycle where humanity and its history gets almost completely reset ever few millenia or so, thus each cycle would develop slightly differently, including their languages. To the ancient Avarost people, it would be the MODERN language that is incomprehensible from an anthropological point of view, for almost the exact same reason.
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*** There are two points against that idea: first, that's ''even worse'', as it means information that has even greater need to be clear is being obscured in a way that makes a misunderstanding more likely than correct interpretation - unless there's some sort of decryption key, but if a scholar as old and experienced with the subject as Grim doesn't know of such a thing, it's exceedingly unlikely. Secondly, Grim says that the tale of Innominat present in the book is a children's counting song, basically a nursery rhyme, which has no earthly reason to be classified.
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** Just a guess but what if they had a comprehensible language that got lost or evolved to the modern language they have while the unclear language of Ancient Avarost that they found was stuff that was intended to keep secret like military codes? After all comprehensible languages evolve while the incomprehensible stuff tend to be reserved for more secretive stuff and ways to decipher them will get lost.
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*** Laphicet wasn't making a statement, he asks Velvet: 'An... order?" then fires on Teresa and Eleanor. And if was [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem that simple]] to get him to obey someone else, then anyone could've taken him from Teresa. Velvet wasn't even an exorcist.

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*** Laphicet wasn't making a statement, he asks Velvet: 'An... order?" then fires on Teresa and Eleanor. And if was [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem ''[[JustFollowingOrders that simple]] simple]]'' to get him to obey someone else, then anyone could've taken him Laphicet from Teresa. It worked for Velvet and she wasn't even an exorcist.
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*** Laphicet wasn't making a statement, he asks: 'An... order?" then fires on Teresa and Eleanor. And if was [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem that simple]] to get him to obey someone else, then anyone could've taken him from Teresa. Velvet wasn't even an exorcist.

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*** Laphicet wasn't making a statement, he asks: asks Velvet: 'An... order?" then fires on Teresa and Eleanor. And if was [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem that simple]] to get him to obey someone else, then anyone could've taken him from Teresa. Velvet wasn't even an exorcist.
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*** Laphicet was making a statement, he asks: 'An... order?" then fires on Teresa and Eleanor. And if was [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem that simple]] to get him to obey someone else, then anyone could've taken him from Teresa. Velvet wasn't even an exorcist.

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*** Laphicet was wasn't making a statement, he asks: 'An... order?" then fires on Teresa and Eleanor. And if was [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem that simple]] to get him to obey someone else, then anyone could've taken him from Teresa. Velvet wasn't even an exorcist.
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***Laphicet was making a statement, he asks: 'An... order?" then fires on Teresa and Eleanor. And if was [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem that simple]] to get him to obey someone else, then anyone could've taken him from Teresa. Velvet wasn't even an exorcist.
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*** Not quite - if you visit at the very end of the game, after beating it and playing on post-game content, you find that the cat ban has been lifted and the village is now filled with ''real'' cats. Also, if a village packed with illusory cats doesn't trigger the sneezing, then shouldn't this have been Velvet's first clue that something very odd was going on?

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*** Not quite - if you visit at the very end of the game, after beating it and playing on post-game content, you find that the cat ban has been lifted and the village is now filled with ''real'' cats. Also, if a village packed with illusory cats doesn't trigger the sneezing, but if they were real it would (though apparently not), then shouldn't this have been Velvet's first clue that something very odd was going on?
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*** Not quite - if you visit at the very end of the game, after beating it and playing on post-game content, you find that the cat ban has been lifted and the village is now filled with ''real'' cats.

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*** Not quite - if you visit at the very end of the game, after beating it and playing on post-game content, you find that the cat ban has been lifted and the village is now filled with ''real'' cats. Also, if a village packed with illusory cats doesn't trigger the sneezing, then shouldn't this have been Velvet's first clue that something very odd was going on?
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*** Not quite - if you visit at the very end of the game, you find that the cat ban has been lifted and the village is now filled with ''real'' cats.

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*** Not quite - if you visit at the very end of the game, after beating it and playing on post-game content, you find that the cat ban has been lifted and the village is now filled with ''real'' cats.
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*** Not quite - if you visit at the very end of the game, you find that the cat ban has been lifted and the village is now filled with ''real'' cats.
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** As most people with cat allergies will tell you, being withing speaking range one cat/Katz in the open air is very different to being stuck in a room perputally occupied by them. As for Taliesin, [[spoiler:those cats were illusory, and don't upset her allergies for the same reason Velvet can taste fake food - the experience is idealized]].


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*** Number Two had been showing signs of rebellion prior to this: we later find out that wandering far enough out to find the party after a boat crash, stealing their compass, visiting the library, and speaking out of line adds up to far more autonomy than most Abbey malakhim. Presumably his cry of "An order!" when pinned by Velvet is him playing RulesLawyer - he's compelled to follow instructions, he manages to ignore the fact they didn't come from Teresa.
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!!The escape from Hellavise

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!!The escape from HellaviseHellawse
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** First: During the escape at the port, Velevet grabs Laphicet and orders him to attack Teresa and Eleanor. Laphicet complies, despite still under Teresa's control. But why? The threat of being devoured shouldn't have been enough to override it; especially given he'd been willing to self-destruct at Teresa's command only seconds prior to Velvet ordering him to attack her and Eleanor.

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** First: During the escape at the port, Velevet grabs Laphicet and orders him to attack Teresa and Eleanor. Laphicet complies, despite still being under Teresa's control. But why? The threat of being devoured shouldn't have been enough to override it; especially given he'd been willing to self-destruct at Teresa's command only seconds prior to Velvet ordering him to attack her and Eleanor.
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** First: During the escape at the port, Velevet grabs Laphicet and orders him to attack Teresa and Eleanor. Laphicet complies even though he was still tethered to Teresa and under ''her'' control. The threat of being devoured shouldn't have been enough to override it; especially given he'd been willing to self-destruct at Teresa's command only seconds prior to Velvet ordering him to attack her and Eleanor.

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** First: During the escape at the port, Velevet grabs Laphicet and orders him to attack Teresa and Eleanor. Laphicet complies even though he was complies, despite still tethered to Teresa and under ''her'' Teresa's control. But why? The threat of being devoured shouldn't have been enough to override it; especially given he'd been willing to self-destruct at Teresa's command only seconds prior to Velvet ordering him to attack her and Eleanor.
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** First: During the escape at the port, Velevet grabs Laphicet and orders him to attack Teresa and Eleanor. Laphicet complies even though he's under no obligation to Velvet, but why? He was still under tethered to Teresa and under ''her'' control. The threat of being devoured shouldn't have been enough to override it; especially given he'd been willing to self-destruct at Teresa's command only seconds prior to Velvet ordering him to attack her and Eleanor.

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** First: During the escape at the port, Velevet grabs Laphicet and orders him to attack Teresa and Eleanor. Laphicet complies even though he's under no obligation to Velvet, but why? He he was still under tethered to Teresa and under ''her'' control. The threat of being devoured shouldn't have been enough to override it; especially given he'd been willing to self-destruct at Teresa's command only seconds prior to Velvet ordering him to attack her and Eleanor.
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** Second: why didn't Teresa and Eleanor defend themselves? They're both Praetor level exorcists and had more than enough time to see the attack coming. Yet, they just stood there and took it. At the very least, you'd think Teresa would've had [[BeatThemAtTheirOwnGame No.1 counter Laphicet.]]

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** Second: why didn't Teresa and Eleanor defend themselves? They're both Praetor level exorcists and had more than enough time to see the attack coming. Yet, [[PlotInducedStupidity they just stood there and took it. it.]] At the very least, you'd think Teresa would've had [[BeatThemAtTheirOwnGame No.1 counter Laphicet.]]
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!!Incomprehensible language



!!Velvet's allergy



!!Why does Velvet warrant a special title?



** It's likely a title the church somewhat made up based on old legends, meant to try and make Velvet out to be public enemy number one. The "Lord of Calamity" idea seems to run along the lines of ThenLetMeBeEvil, in that somebody who's treated as the Lord of Calamity (and has at least something going on with them whereby malevolence is significantly influenced by them) will end up being the "true" Lord of Calamity. It was a similar case with Heldalf, as he was cursed to be one. Velvet being a Therion allows her to be one, as well, due to holding far more malevolence in her than an ordinary person ever should.

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** It's likely a title the church somewhat made up based on old legends, meant to try and make Velvet out to be public enemy number one. The "Lord of Calamity" idea seems to run along the lines of ThenLetMeBeEvil, in that somebody who's treated as the Lord of Calamity (and has at least something going on with them whereby malevolence is significantly influenced by them) will end up being the "true" Lord of Calamity. It was a similar case with Heldalf, as he was cursed to be one. Velvet being a Therion allows her to be one, as well, due to holding far more malevolence in her than an ordinary person ever should.should.
!!The escape from Hellavise
*This one's a two parter:
**First: During the escape at the port, Velevet grabs Laphicet and orders him to attack Teresa and Eleanor. Laphicet complies even though he's under no obligation to Velvet, but why? He was still under tethered to Teresa and under ''her'' control. The threat of being devoured shouldn't have been enough to override it; especially given he'd been willing to self-destruct at Teresa's command only seconds prior to Velvet ordering him to attack her and Eleanor.
**Second: why didn't Teresa and Eleanor defend themselves? They're both Praetor level exorcists and had more than enough time to see the attack coming. Yet, they just stood there and took it. At the very least, you'd think Teresa would've had [[BeatThemAtTheirOwnGame No.1 counter Laphicet.]]
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* There's no in-universe justification for why townsfolk and the Abbey begin referring to Velvet as "Daemon Lord"; much less, the "Lord of Calamity". We're even told that she isn't the first daemon to devour other daemons, nor is she the first person to leave villages in ruin. So why the special title?

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* There's no in-universe justification for why townsfolk and the Abbey begin referring to Velvet as "Daemon Lord"; much less, the "Lord of Calamity". We're even told that she isn't the first daemon to devour other daemons, nor is she the first person to leave villages in ruin. So why the special title?title?
** It's likely a title the church somewhat made up based on old legends, meant to try and make Velvet out to be public enemy number one. The "Lord of Calamity" idea seems to run along the lines of ThenLetMeBeEvil, in that somebody who's treated as the Lord of Calamity (and has at least something going on with them whereby malevolence is significantly influenced by them) will end up being the "true" Lord of Calamity. It was a similar case with Heldalf, as he was cursed to be one. Velvet being a Therion allows her to be one, as well, due to holding far more malevolence in her than an ordinary person ever should.
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* There's never any in-universe justification for why townsfolk and the Abbey begin referring to Velvet as "Daemon Lord"; much less, the "Lord of Calamity". We're even told that she isn't the first daemon to devour other daemons, nor is she the first person to leave villages in ruin. So why the special title?

to:

* There's never any no in-universe justification for why townsfolk and the Abbey begin referring to Velvet as "Daemon Lord"; much less, the "Lord of Calamity". We're even told that she isn't the first daemon to devour other daemons, nor is she the first person to leave villages in ruin. So why the special title?
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* If Velvet is allergic to cats, then how come her sneezing ''never'' comes up until the party actually visits Katz Korner? The party encounters katz throughout the game, and the katz that sends the party to Katz Korner is in a town that is ''packed'' with real cats. Yet still no sneezing. Perhaps RuleOfFunny, but still...

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* If Velvet is allergic to cats, then how come her sneezing ''never'' comes up until the party actually visits Katz Korner? The party encounters katz throughout the game, and the katz that sends the party to Katz Korner is in a town that is ''packed'' with real cats. Yet still no sneezing. Perhaps RuleOfFunny, but still...still...
* There's never any in-universe justification for why townsfolk and the Abbey begin referring to Velvet as "Daemon Lord"; much less, the "Lord of Calamity". We're even told that she isn't the first daemon to devour other daemons, nor is she the first person to leave villages in ruin. So why the special title?
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* The ancient language as Grimiohr describes it makes no sense from an anthropological point of view. Cultures develop to written word in order to be able to convey ideas to others, preferably as concisely and clearly as possible. Yet what we're shown is a language where we're explicitly told taking flying leaps of logic, restructuring sentences at random, and making mad guesses at what mood the author was in at the time are ''necessary steps'' to reading a given text. This means two things: all communication in the ancient culture was as context-sensitive as this, which meant misunderstandings and PoorCommunicationKills would have been ''more common'' than actually getting one's point across, or the written language was intentionally designed to be byzantine, unclear, and time-consuming to read, neither of which makes any sense whatsoever.

to:

* The ancient language as Grimiohr describes it makes no sense from an anthropological point of view. Cultures develop to written word in order to be able to convey ideas to others, preferably as concisely and clearly as possible. Yet what we're shown is a language where we're explicitly told taking flying leaps of logic, restructuring sentences at random, and making mad guesses at what mood the author was in at the time are ''necessary steps'' to reading a given text. This means two things: all communication in the ancient culture was as context-sensitive as this, which meant misunderstandings and PoorCommunicationKills would have been ''more common'' than actually getting one's point across, or the written language was intentionally designed to be byzantine, unclear, and time-consuming to read, neither of which makes any sense whatsoever.whatsoever.
* If Velvet is allergic to cats, then how come her sneezing ''never'' comes up until the party actually visits Katz Korner? The party encounters katz throughout the game, and the katz that sends the party to Katz Korner is in a town that is ''packed'' with real cats. Yet still no sneezing. Perhaps RuleOfFunny, but still...
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* The ancient language as Grimiohr describes it makes no sense from an anthropological point of view. Cultures develop to written word in order to be able to convey ideas to others, preferably as concisely and clearly as possible. Yet what we're shown is a language where we're explicitly told taking flying leaps of logic, restructuring sentences at random, and making mad guesses at what mood the author was in at the time are ''necessary steps'' to reading a given text. This means two things: all communication in the ancient culture was as context-sensitive as this, which meant misunderstandings and PoorCommunicationKills would have been ''more common'' than actually getting one's point across, or the written language was intentionally designed to be byzantine, unclear, and time-consuming to read, neither of which makes any sense whatsoever.

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