History Headscratchers / StarTrekNemesis

13th Dec '16 9:05:38 AM costanton11
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** Alternatively, considering its a major tactical situation, maybe it was more efficient? The battle was unlikely to be decided by that one shot, so as soon as the Scimitar decloaked, Worf would have to take back over anyway and they'd lose valuable seconds in Troi stepping aside and him stepping up compared to her just taking her hand away. Also, if the Scimitar was able to recloak again, they'd have to do it all over again, costing more seconds. Also, iirc (unless I'm remembering fanon as canon) - doesn't the LCARS interface used in TNG era ships mean that each officer can reconfigure the interface to their personal preferences? Maybe Worf's preferences are non-standard and to avoid confusion, Troi was also using her abilities on Worf to direct him rather than trying to figure out the consol herself.

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** Alternatively, considering its a major tactical situation, maybe it was more efficient? The battle was unlikely to be decided by that one shot, so as soon as the Scimitar decloaked, Worf would have to take back over anyway and they'd lose valuable seconds in Troi stepping aside and him stepping up compared to her just taking her hand away. Also, if the Scimitar was able to recloak again, they'd have to do it all over again, costing more seconds. Also, iirc (unless I'm remembering fanon as canon) - doesn't the LCARS interface used in TNG era ships mean that each officer can reconfigure the interface to their personal preferences? Maybe Worf's preferences are non-standard and to avoid confusion, Troi was also using her abilities on Worf to direct him rather than trying to figure out the consol console herself.



** Because he was still fighting off the Reman boarding partym and in the novelization, a bad disruptor hit forced him into Sickbay; he was completely occupied in either case. Plus, he wasn't even on the bridge when Picard announced this decision, so he couldn't object even if he wanted to.

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** Because he was still fighting off the Reman boarding partym party and in the novelization, a bad disruptor hit forced him into Sickbay; he was completely occupied in either case. Plus, he wasn't even on the bridge when Picard announced this decision, so he couldn't object even if he wanted to.



* Admittedly, he doesn't want the promotion, but in what just universe is Captain Jean-Luc Picard, saviour of the Federation on more than one occasion, taking orders from a two-bit vice-admiral who was ''not even born'' when he was promoted to Captain and managed to screw up the one mission she had been officially given by Starfleet in seven years of Captaincy? (That is, search, locate, and apprehend a ship containing marquis and crew.) What does this say about the quality of Starfleet's Admirals???

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* Admittedly, he doesn't want the promotion, but in what just universe is Captain Jean-Luc Picard, saviour savior of the Federation on more than one occasion, taking orders from a two-bit vice-admiral who was ''not even born'' when he was promoted to Captain and managed to screw up the one mission she had been officially given by Starfleet in seven years of Captaincy? (That is, search, locate, and apprehend a ship containing marquis and crew.) What does this say about the quality of Starfleet's Admirals???



*** If Shinzon was reasonably intelligent he could have easily taken what he wanted from Picard and the movie would be 10 minutes long. Just think about it. He has a ship that can fire when cloaked, so all he needed to do to get Picard was fire on the entireprise when cloaked taking out it's shields, beam picard aboard and warp away.

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*** If Shinzon was reasonably intelligent he could have easily taken what he wanted from Picard and the movie would be 10 minutes long. Just think about it. He has a ship that can fire when cloaked, so all he needed to do to get Picard was fire on the entireprise enterprise when cloaked taking out it's shields, beam picard Picard aboard and warp away.



*** Among very bad and poorly written ones. It's not like with Khan, who also made much smaller mistakes due to his own ego and desire for vengeance, because he was still very competent and clever and our heroes still had to earn their victory. Shinzon's over confidence is so huge, he's absolutely incapable to get anything done and the only actual menace he creates comes from plot convienience and stupidity of our heroes. We never see him do anything actually clever, that would prove he isn't really that stupid and it's just his hubris that is preventing him from achieving his goals.

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*** Among very bad and poorly written ones. It's not like with Khan, who also made much smaller mistakes due to his own ego and desire for vengeance, because he was still very competent and clever and our heroes still had to earn their victory. Shinzon's over confidence is so huge, he's absolutely incapable to get anything done and the only actual menace he creates comes from plot convienience convenience and stupidity of our heroes. We never see him do anything actually clever, that would prove he isn't really that stupid and it's just his hubris that is preventing him from achieving his goals.



*** Both Khan Noonien Singh and Noonien Soong were named after a real person named Kim Noonien Singh, a pilot that Gene Roddenberry served with during WW2. Taken from Wikipedia: Khan's full name was based on that of Kim Noonien Singh, a pilot Gene Roddenbery served with during the Second World War. Roddenbery lost touch with his friend and had hoped that Khan's similar name might attract his attention and renew his old acquaintance.

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*** Both Khan Noonien Singh and Noonien Soong were named after a real person named Kim Noonien Singh, a pilot that Gene Roddenberry served with during WW2. Taken from Wikipedia: Khan's full name was based on that of Kim Noonien Singh, a pilot Gene Roddenbery Roddenberry served with during the Second World War. Roddenbery Roddenberry lost touch with his friend and had hoped that Khan's similar name might attract his attention and renew his old acquaintance.



** Very, very easily answered. Say what you like about Janeway, she was able to get what was a small scout/exploration ship across 70,000 light years (effectively crossing half the galaxy) with a small crew supplemented with terrorists without getting most of them killed, made first contact with dozens of species, survived encounters with the Borg (and worse) and mapped a whole chunk of previously-unmapped space to boot. I'm not surprised Starfleet's response was 'that was a hell of a command', recognised that she'd done the best job possible and offered her a promotion. Remember that none of the other ships that went missing from the Badlands ever returned). Janeway struck me as a career-minded officer, unlike Picard or Kirk, who both enjoyed commanding ships but not the idea of desk jobs as Admirals. So it makes sense she'd accept whereas Picard probably turned down more promotion opportunities than Riker did commands. It's even said by an Admiral in Best of Both Worlds (quite an early TNG episode) that they are on ship command offer number three for Riker, he just won't accept because he views any non-Enterprise command of his own as rather a step down (or maybe sideways). Most of the hatred for Janeway being an Admiral was just hot air, it actually made perfect sense. It's also not as if Janeway's lines imply she is Picard's direct superior, she was simply delivering orders (from-the-top orders) via a communication.
** There are good answers below, but come on, this one's easy: [[Film/StarTrekGenerations Picard took Kirk's advice to heart.]] He probably got offered more admiralities than Riker was offered ship commands (and we know that's saying a lot), but he turned it down every single time because Picard realized that, like Kirk, his "first, greatest destiny" is captaining a starship. Meanwhile, after seven years of wandering out in the cold, Janeway would take a desk job at Starfleet HQ in a ''heartbeat''.

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** Very, very easily answered. Say what you like about Janeway, she was able to get what was a small scout/exploration ship across 70,000 light years (effectively crossing half the galaxy) with a small crew supplemented with terrorists without getting most of them killed, made first contact with dozens of species, survived encounters with the Borg (and worse) and mapped a whole chunk of previously-unmapped space to boot. I'm not surprised Starfleet's response was 'that was a hell of a command', recognised recognized that she'd done the best job possible and offered her a promotion. Remember that none of the other ships that went missing from the Badlands ever returned). Janeway struck me as a career-minded officer, unlike Picard or Kirk, who both enjoyed commanding ships but not the idea of desk jobs as Admirals. So it makes sense she'd accept whereas Picard probably turned down more promotion opportunities than Riker did commands. It's even said by an Admiral in Best of Both Worlds (quite an early TNG episode) that they are on ship command offer number three for Riker, he just won't accept because he views any non-Enterprise command of his own as rather a step down (or maybe sideways). Most of the hatred for Janeway being an Admiral was just hot air, it actually made perfect sense. It's also not as if Janeway's lines imply she is Picard's direct superior, she was simply delivering orders (from-the-top orders) via a communication.
** There are good answers below, but come on, this one's easy: [[Film/StarTrekGenerations Picard took Kirk's advice to heart.]] He probably got offered more admiralities admiralties than Riker was offered ship commands (and we know that's saying a lot), but he turned it down every single time because Picard realized that, like Kirk, his "first, greatest destiny" is captaining a starship. Meanwhile, after seven years of wandering out in the cold, Janeway would take a desk job at Starfleet HQ in a ''heartbeat''.



*** "Much of starfleet" is an exageration, caused by the people writing TNG at the time having no idea how big a fleet something like Starfleet would require to be operational over an area as big as the Federation. The Dominion War showed a much better scale of numbers, and from that size, the ships lost at Wolf 359 would not be considered a high amount at all. Plus Picard has been offered promotions, he turns them down.

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*** "Much of starfleet" is an exageration, exaggeration, caused by the people writing TNG at the time having no idea how big a fleet something like Starfleet would require to be operational over an area as big as the Federation. The Dominion War showed a much better scale of numbers, and from that size, the ships lost at Wolf 359 would not be considered a high amount at all. Plus Picard has been offered promotions, he turns them down.



*** She is in the very least guilty of killing a member of her crew for dubious reasons in the episode Tuvix which is almost definately not allowed, she allowed children to be killed because she believed a very clearly bullshit story about how a species ages backwards, and she did work with Vidian pirates in a few episodes which the Federation almost certainly won't approve of.

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*** She is in the very least guilty of killing a member of her crew for dubious reasons in the episode Tuvix which is almost definately definitely not allowed, she allowed children to be killed because she believed a very clearly bullshit story about how a species ages backwards, and she did work with Vidian pirates in a few episodes which the Federation almost certainly won't approve of.



*** This troper I don't think she was in charge of diplomacy anymore then any other branch. She's either just happened to be the one on duty at the time or she just was the one selected to call Picard. Stafleet Command probably recived the Romulan call for a diplomatic meeting, relayed it to the Federation Council and then the Federation Council (doubtlessly after some debate) called up Starfleet Command and told them to send somebody to take the Romulans up on their offer. Janeway just probably happened to be around at the time.

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*** This troper I don't think she was in charge of diplomacy anymore then any other branch. She's either just happened to be the one on duty at the time or she just was the one selected to call Picard. Stafleet Command probably recived received the Romulan call for a diplomatic meeting, relayed it to the Federation Council and then the Federation Council (doubtlessly after some debate) called up Starfleet Command and told them to send somebody to take the Romulans up on their offer. Janeway just probably happened to be around at the time.



*** That pretty much describes what happens everytime I take my car to a mechanic. I swear they break shit on purpose to make you come back.

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*** That pretty much describes what happens everytime every time I take my car to a mechanic. I swear they break shit on purpose to make you come back.



* When the Enterprise picks up B-4's distress signal they soon realise that the pieces are scattered on a planet inhabited by a pre-warp civilisation. As established numerous times in the series and movies, this means the Prime Directive expressly forbids any cultural contamination. No-one must know about the existence of alien worlds or more advanced technologies... except Picard has a new dune buggy he wants to try out. They proceed to race around the desert collecting bits of android and then - when the locals show up with their sub-machine guns - fire energy weapons at them, potentially killing or at least seriously wounding several of their troops before summoning a giant flying shuttle and soaring away into outer space. Court Martials for all!

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* When the Enterprise picks up B-4's distress signal they soon realise realize that the pieces are scattered on a planet inhabited by a pre-warp civilisation.civilization. As established numerous times in the series and movies, this means the Prime Directive expressly forbids any cultural contamination. No-one must know about the existence of alien worlds or more advanced technologies... except Picard has a new dune buggy he wants to try out. They proceed to race around the desert collecting bits of android and then - when the locals show up with their sub-machine guns - fire energy weapons at them, potentially killing or at least seriously wounding several of their troops before summoning a giant flying shuttle and soaring away into outer space. Court Martials for all!



* Riker deals with Shinzon's Viceroy by luring him into a Jefferies Tube, established in all other continuities as being snug crawlspaces sandwiched inbetween the decks of the ship. The two end up fighting on a precarious metal gantry over a huge chasm lit from below by a gigantic white light source. Where on the ship is this, exactly?

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* Riker deals with Shinzon's Viceroy by luring him into a Jefferies Tube, established in all other continuities as being snug crawlspaces sandwiched inbetween in between the decks of the ship. The two end up fighting on a precarious metal gantry over a huge chasm lit from below by a gigantic white light source. Where on the ship is this, exactly?



*** The tactically correct thing to do would have been for Riker to have set his phaser's powerpack to overload and chuck it down the Jeffries tube after the Viceroy. It's not like they have grenades...

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*** The tactically correct thing to do would have been for Riker to have set his phaser's powerpack power pack to overload and chuck it down the Jeffries tube after the Viceroy. It's not like they have grenades...



*** If memory serves, when ''Enterprise'' was boarded, Picard just said "Commander," and gave Riker a significant look. If you want to be charitable, you could argue that the captain never intended to send Riker at all; he just assumed that in a crisis, his XO knew enough to stay at his post. Busy as Picard was, he simply meant to delegate the task of sending in the grunts to deal with the intruders. I like to imagine him facepalming thirty seconds later when he realizes that his second-in-command isn't on the bridge anymore, and double-facepalming when he notices Worf left, too.

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*** If memory serves, when ''Enterprise'' was boarded, Picard just said "Commander," and gave Riker a significant look. If you want to be charitable, you could argue that the captain never intended to send Riker at all; he just assumed that in a crisis, his XO knew enough to stay at his post. Busy as Picard was, he simply meant to delegate the task of sending in the grunts to deal with the intruders. I like to imagine him facepalming face-palming thirty seconds later when he realizes that his second-in-command isn't on the bridge anymore, and double-facepalming double-face palming when he notices Worf left, too.



* The bridge is located on the top of the Enterprise's saucer section. When the viewscreen is destroyed and a large hole forms at the front of the bridge, the view out of the hole is what you'd see if the bridge were at the leading edge of the saucer - given how much bigger the Enterprise-E is than its predecessor you should be able to see the saucer curving away ahead of you.

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* The bridge is located on the top of the Enterprise's saucer section. When the viewscreen view screen is destroyed and a large hole forms at the front of the bridge, the view out of the hole is what you'd see if the bridge were at the leading edge of the saucer - given how much bigger the Enterprise-E is than its predecessor you should be able to see the saucer curving away ahead of you.



** My theory, the new Government of Cardassia realised that it would work out a lot better for them in terms of influence if they could split the Federation off from the Romulans. So they turned to a ''simple'' patriot who just happened to have nigh on incontrovertible proof that the Federation conspired to drag the Romulans into war on false pretences and assassinate a Senator (with help from persons, sadly, unknown, of course). So relations got very frosty very quickly. Maybe that is why they have a superweapon, they were already gearing up for a war on the Federation as soon as they could manage to regenerate their losses from the first war.

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** My theory, the new Government of Cardassia realised realized that it would work out a lot better for them in terms of influence if they could split the Federation off from the Romulans. So they turned to a ''simple'' patriot who just happened to have nigh on incontrovertible proof that the Federation conspired to drag the Romulans into war on false pretences pretenses and assassinate a Senator (with help from persons, sadly, unknown, of course). So relations got very frosty very quickly. Maybe that is why they have a superweapon, they were already gearing up for a war on the Federation as soon as they could manage to regenerate their losses from the first war.



*** Planetary engagements require footsoldiers. These footsoldiers need to be taught how to maintain their advanced weapons, communication equipment and so forth. You might even want them on the front line flying ships in certain obvious suicide missions. Not to mention their use as laborers in shipyards and other construction facilities. It's more unbelievable that they could construct a monster like the Scimitar in secret. That they could construct it in the first place is reasonable. As for switching sides, the Remans would only do that in the face of a better offer. With the Romulans likely maintaining a hold on the space fleet, they could glass Remus if their slaves got out of line.

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*** Planetary engagements require footsoldiers. foot soldiers. These footsoldiers foot soldiers need to be taught how to maintain their advanced weapons, communication equipment and so forth. You might even want them on the front line flying ships in certain obvious suicide missions. Not to mention their use as laborers in shipyards and other construction facilities. It's more unbelievable that they could construct a monster like the Scimitar in secret. That they could construct it in the first place is reasonable. As for switching sides, the Remans would only do that in the face of a better offer. With the Romulans likely maintaining a hold on the space fleet, they could glass Remus if their slaves got out of line.



* So at the start of the film, the entire ''Enterprise'' senior staff is taking time out for a wedding. Okay. Then they get on the ''Enterprise'' and set course for Betazed, for another wedding. Not okay. Who on Earth authorised Picard to use the ''Federation flagship'' as a glorified limousine? This isn't some diplomatic mission, they're literally just ferrying a bunch of people to a wedding. And not even an important wedding, one between two members of the ship's crew! Ever heard of shuttlecraft? Or are we supposed to assume the ''Enterprise'' has some mission out that way afterwards?

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* So at the start of the film, the entire ''Enterprise'' senior staff is taking time out for a wedding. Okay. Then they get on the ''Enterprise'' and set course for Betazed, for another wedding. Not okay. Who on Earth authorised authorized Picard to use the ''Federation flagship'' as a glorified limousine? This isn't some diplomatic mission, they're literally just ferrying a bunch of people to a wedding. And not even an important wedding, one between two members of the ship's crew! Ever heard of shuttlecraft? Or are we supposed to assume the ''Enterprise'' has some mission out that way afterwards?



*** This is something that's bugged the crap out of me about Star Trek for a long time. Wenever the ship has a hiccup, the intercoms go down; right along with, for some reason, the commbadges. We've seen commbadges used for person-to-person communication on away missions before, so you would expect them to be able to work independently of the ship. How is it that there's never a backup system? A pair of simple, been-around-in-the-real-world-for-70-years, sound-powered telephones could ensure that the bridge could always stay in touch with the engine room even if the power was out and all of the batteries on the ship were completely dead.

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*** This is something that's bugged the crap out of me about Star Trek for a long time. Wenever Whenever the ship has a hiccup, the intercoms go down; right along with, for some reason, the commbadges. We've seen commbadges used for person-to-person communication on away missions before, so you would expect them to be able to work independently of the ship. How is it that there's never a backup system? A pair of simple, been-around-in-the-real-world-for-70-years, sound-powered telephones could ensure that the bridge could always stay in touch with the engine room even if the power was out and all of the batteries on the ship were completely dead.
28th Jul '16 6:36:52 AM Morgenthaler
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*** As an Admiral with a desk job, all of her orders and communications would be a matter of public record, and she'd be heavily scrutinized. It's sort of a combination of KickedUpstairs and PromotedToScapegoat / ReassignedToAntarctica. And as the above troper mentioned, there was no way in hell they were ever going to let her command a starship again. Everyone knows starship captains make the real plot changing decisions in Star Trek, and that Admirals are really only there as window dressing. Really it's an example of Starfleet Command being DangerouslyGenreSavvy.

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*** As an Admiral with a desk job, all of her orders and communications would be a matter of public record, and she'd be heavily scrutinized. It's sort of a combination of KickedUpstairs and PromotedToScapegoat / ReassignedToAntarctica. And as the above troper mentioned, there was no way in hell they were ever going to let her command a starship again. Everyone knows starship captains make the real plot changing decisions in Star Trek, and that Admirals are really only there as window dressing. Really it's an example of Starfleet Command being DangerouslyGenreSavvy.clever.
26th Jul '16 4:16:33 AM LordInsane
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** Presumably the order of events were 1) the Remans (and Shinzon) fight in the Dominion War as slave mooks and acquit themselves well, earning some respect from the regular military as well as opportunities to gain contacts with Romulans that might be amenable to working with them while the Tal Shiar is distracted by the massive ongoing conflict, 2) that meant that there were enough Romulans in the military who might be willing to listen to at least ''one'' of Shinzon's ideas for the future, whether the 'make the Remans more equal to the Romulans so their talents can be harnessed better against the enemies of the Romulan Star Empire', 'Destroy the Federation, our hereditary enemy' or 'Bring down the Tal Shiar's influence' (since at the very least they failed to stop the coup), 3) Shinzon might even have ''told'' some of his potential Romulan conspirators of his short life-span, meaning he wasn't going to be praetor for very long regardless of what happens, 4) the Tal Shiar was likely initially thrown into some confusion by the destruction of the Senate since it both killed their nominal superiors and might well have killed the actual leader of the Tal Shiar, and by the time they got things into order again, the Reman-augmented military was already in control. The Tal Shiar might well have been preparing for a counter-coup, perhaps using the fact that a human was in charge as a rallying cry... but Shinzon's regime fell apart in a matter of days thanks to his obsessions as it was ''anyway''.


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*** We do. The confirmation was that the reality the Narada showed up in was an alternate timeline/reality, at the very least from the point the Narada showed up. Every other source consistently indicates that the Narada ''came'' from the 'Prime' universe. How ''much'' of the RSE was destroyed is less certain, though an unexpectedly FTL supernova would explain how it could 'threaten the galaxy' and take the Romulan government by surprise.
3rd Jul '16 3:31:13 PM Luppercus
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** Other than the very weird hate some fans have over Janeway, truth is just the fact that she, you know, CAUSE A MAJOR VICTORY OVER THE BORGS, maybe reason enough to make her admiral. That and the fact that, as far as we know, the Federation's leadership does not share the fandom's hate over Janeway which is not canon at all and exists only in WMG and FanWang.

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** Other than the very weird hate some fans have over Janeway, truth is just the fact that she, you know, CAUSE A MAJOR VICTORY OVER THE BORGS, maybe reason enough to make her admiral. That and the fact that, as far as we know, the Federation's leadership does not share the fandom's hate over Janeway which is not canon at all and exists only in WMG and FanWang.FanWank.
2nd Jul '16 4:36:13 PM Luppercus
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***But this is a headscratcher, not a WMG, so unless there's any evidence that she was court-martialed in-universe (wether canon or at least expanded universe) then this is just fans expressing their hatred toward the character instead of properly respond a headscratcher.
2nd Jul '16 11:12:12 AM thespecialneedsgroup
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*** Janeway was almost certainly court-martialed when she arrived home. There was just no realistic way to avoid it. She made too many questionable decisions in her time in the Delta Quadrant. Consider the facts of many of those decisions from Starfleet's perspective, without the context that viewers enjoy, and a lot of those decisions start to look like serious crimes. For example, while her victory over the Borg was certainly impressive, Starfleet's probably going to get a little hung up on that time she [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekVoyagerS3E25S4E1Scorpion designed and supplied weapons of mass destruction to the Borg]]. Starfleet can't just ignore Janeway involving ''Voyager'' in a war between two current enemies of the Federation, and that's only one of the ''many'' violations of the Prime Directive that Janeway must have had to answer for when she returned home.

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*** Janeway was almost certainly court-martialed when she arrived home. There was just no realistic way to avoid it. She made too many questionable decisions in her time in the Delta Quadrant. Consider the facts of many of those decisions from Starfleet's perspective, without the context that viewers enjoy, and a lot of those decisions start to look like serious crimes. For example, while her victory over the Borg was certainly impressive, Starfleet's probably going to get a little hung up on that time she [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekVoyagerS3E25S4E1Scorpion [[Recap/StarTrekVoyagerS3E25S4E1Scorpion designed and supplied weapons of mass destruction to the Borg]]. Starfleet can't just ignore Janeway involving ''Voyager'' in a war between two current enemies of the Federation, and that's only one of the ''many'' violations of the Prime Directive that Janeway must have had to answer for when she returned home.
2nd Jul '16 11:10:08 AM thespecialneedsgroup
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*** Janeway was almost certainly court-martialed when she arrived home. There was just no realistic way to avoid it. She made too many questionable decisions in her time in the Delta Quadrant. Consider the facts of many of those decisions from Starfleet's perspective, without the context that viewers enjoy, and a lot of those decisions start to look like serious crimes. For example, while her victory over the Borg was certainly impressive, Starfleet's probably going to get a little hung up on that time she [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekVoyagerS3E25S4E1Scorpion designed and supplied weapons of mass destruction to the Borg]]. Starfleet can't just ignore Janeway involving ''Voyager'' in a war between two current enemies of the Federation, and that's only one of the ''many'' violations of the Prime Directive that Janeway must have had to answer for when she returned home.
30th Jun '16 1:43:14 AM Luppercus
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*** Pre-warp civilization does not always mean pre-first contact civilization, is plausible (especially if they're near the Romulan space and Romulans, as far as I know, has no Prime Directive rule) that the civilization, though pre-warp, already was contacted by aliens.
30th Jun '16 1:29:19 AM Luppercus
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***Is there any indication that in-universe Janeway is as hated as she is in TV Tropes? Cause otherwise this whole headscratcher is kind of pointless.
30th Jun '16 1:23:12 AM Luppercus
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*** You know Adolf is still a very common name, right?
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