Wiki Headlines
We've switched servers and will be updating the old code over the next couple months, meaning that several things might break. Please report issues here.

main index




Topical Tropes

Other Categories

TV Tropes Org
Headscratchers: Star Trek: Nemesis
  • Did Shinzon even have a motivation other than creating action scenes? The Romulans abused him, so he wants to conquer Earth and bring glory to their empire? His needing Picard's blood is apparently supposed to explain why he wants to blow the Enterprise into tiny pieces. Why didn't he just explain that he needed a sample of Picard's blood to live and ask nicely?
    • No he did not. That's part of why Nemesis was so badly received. Even Marina Sirtis and LeVar Burton said it sucked.
      • Personal take: After dropping a bridge on the Rommie senate, he's basically the boss of the Empire. He wants to kaboom Earth because it's Federation Central, and the Feds are the main threat to his new-found property.
      • Except the Feds aren't a threat to him. They were enemies of the Romulans not Shinzon, and Shinzon had no reason to suspect the Feds had any ill will towards him at all.
      • The Federation weren't the enemies of the Romulan species. They were enemies because the Romulan Empire was a large and aggressive military power that had previously shown a willingness to foment wars between other governments for their own gain. They have no reason to assume that Shinzon's administration would be any different, so they have no reason to back down on their defenses. They would probably prefer it if the Romulan Empire collapsed entirely. Shinzon knows this, so he considers the Federation a threat to his power.
      • Plus, he had the help of Romulans in seizing power - most likely he said "if you support me as Praetor, I'll lead our military to the victories you've always wanted" or something like that.
      • Shinzon's crazy, man.
    • It was my understanding that taking what he needed from Picard would have resulted in Picard's death, as I recall it being said that he needed a full transplant. Picard needs to have some blood and marrow. I imagine they could have tried cloning the blood and marrow once they had enough (disregarding that cloning got them in this mess in the first place), but it would have still been a major and risky operation for Picard. Also, Shinzon was nuts.
      • If Shinzon was reasonably intelligent he could have easily taken what he wanted from Picard and the movie would be 10 minutes long. Just think about it. He has a ship that can fire when cloaked, so all he needed to do to get Picard was fire on the entireprise when cloaked taking out it's shields, beam picard aboard and warp away.
      • Shinzon was too caught up in his own ego and in studying his progenitor to take the direct approach. At least once in the course of the movie, his Viceroy urges him to speed things along, but he's too busy being angsty. And mindraping Deanna for no reason.
      • Which goes back to my point that he's an idiot and the movie would be 10 minutes long if he was not.
      • It's called hubris, and it's a common ailment among fictional characters.
      • Among very bad and poorly written ones. It's not like with Khan, who also made much smaller mistakes due to his own ego and desire for vengeance, because he was still very competent and clever and our heroes still had to earn their victory. Shinzon's over confidence is so huge, he's absolutely incapable to get anything done and the only actual menace he creates comes from plot convienience and stupidity of our heroes. We never see him do anything actually clever, that would prove he isn't really that stupid and it's just his hubris that is preventing him from achieving his goals.
      • Shinzon wanted to be as great a hero to the Romulans (or at least the Remans) as Picard is to his people. The biggest thing you can do for the Romulans, especially according to an angry youth living in the shadow of a human, is overthrow the increasingly pacifistic government and hijack the military for total annihilation of Earth, AKA Federation City.
      • In that case, it might have made more sense to attack Qo'noS. The Federation has a history of going far out of its way to maintain peace, and may try to do so even after the Romulan Empire attacks their Klingon allies—especially in the wake of the Dominion War. The Klingons, having suffered heavily in that conflict, are probably still in a weakened state and unable to fight a long-term defensive war.
    • The scenes that would have explained Shinzon's motive were actually chopped out. According to those scenes, even if Shinzon had gotten the transplant he needed, it would have added another decade or so at most to his life, since his genetics were still pretty badly warped. Therefore he wanted to do something big in the time that he did have, to ensure that his name would go down in history. His plan was to use his big badass ship to take out the Federation government and Starfleet Command on Earth, then launch a full-scale invasion. It's not a particularly original motive, but it shows that the screenwriter had at least put some thought into it - it just so happens that the producer and director thought it wasn't really that important to give their villain ("The best since Khan!") a backstory and a motive.

  • Picard says B-4's name is typical of Noonien Soong's clever naming schemes, but Data and Lore refer to types of information, and B-4 is just AOL Speak. B-4 is supposed to have less neural development, but should be just as intelligent and capable as any android lacking in personality, but instead he acts like a child, so he's meant to act this way for now until he gets out of this state naturally or by upgrading. Why do we care about B-4 as a new character if he's not much more than a Deus Ex Machina? Why do we care about Data's death if B-4 is an obvious way to negate most of it? The movie was hyped as a huge status quo change, but the end just sets up a reset switch.
    • And the switch is tripped sometime between Nemesis and the Abrams tie-in comic. B-4 is dead, and Data has his body.
    • B-4 is not dead, according to the Star Trek Online tie in novel he's just a hologram now. When Starfleet tried to "revive" Data, Data's ethical programming kicked in because reviving Data in B-4's body would overwrite B-4. Data tried to erase himself from B-4's systems to prevent this but Starfleet, which desperately needed Data to solve some crises or another, started feeding B-4/Data information on this crises. B-4 (who is smarter then everyone gives him credit for)saw how much his brother was needed changed a single line of Data's "suicide program" so it erased B-4 instead. Of course, Starfleet (Who are also much smarter then everyone gives them credit for) made a holographic backup of B-4 so he's now alive and a hologram. (It's pointed out he's stuck in the holodeck, but Data promised to assist in building him a new body and besides B-4 is apparently quite happy in the holodeck anyway since he really doesn't have any aspirations or desires.)
    • For that matter, what kind of freaks were Dr. Soong's parents, to name him "Noonien" in the first place? Noonien was Khan's first name ... Khan Noonien Singh, augmented tyrant and war criminal, whose surname is already just one vowel's-worth of pronunciation away from "Soong". So isn't that a lot like a Mr. and Mrs. Hetler tagging their kid "Adolf"...?
      • Khan was a dictator and a tyrant, but he wasn't a monster (at least not until his wife died). Even then he never got as bad as Hitler. And as revealed in Enterprise, the Soong family had ties to the Augments. Possibly the name just got passed down.
      • It's more like tagging their kid "Napoleon" or "Alexander". Khan was a tyrant but he wasn't genocidal.
      • Khan nuked Iran and a couple of other third world countries under the pretense he was doing them a FAVOR... not genocidal? He believed all the non-augments were basically bugs to enslave or crush as he desired...
      • In a rare instance of something good coming out of Enterprise the explanation could plausibly be; Data's creator's grandfather was an augmented humans nut and conceivably named his son Noonien Soong /because/ of the similarity, with Data's creator being Noonien Soong Jr. Now why the Kirks named their son 'Tiberius' on the other hand....
      • Arik Soong is actually Noonien Soong's great-grandfather. So maybe Dr Noonien Soong is named after his grandfather, Arik's son — it's not an uncommon practice.

  • How in blue hell did Janeway make Admiral before Picard?
    • Very, very easily answered. Say what you like about Janeway, she was able to get what was a small scout/exploration ship across 70,000 light years (effectively crossing half the galaxy) with a small crew supplemented with terrorists without getting most of them killed, made first contact with dozens of species, survived encounters with the Borg (and worse) and mapped a whole chunk of previously-unmapped space to boot. I'm not surprised Starfleet's response was 'that was a hell of a command', recognised that she'd done the best job possible and offered her a promotion. Remember that none of the other ships that went missing from the Badlands ever returned). Janeway struck me as a career-minded officer, unlike Picard or Kirk, who both enjoyed commanding ships but not the idea of desk jobs as Admirals. So it makes sense she'd accept whereas Picard probably turned down more promotion opportunities than Riker did commands. It's even said by an Admiral in Best of Both Worlds (quite an early TNG episode) that they are on ship command offer number three for Riker, he just won't accept because he views any non-Enterprise command of his own as rather a step down (or maybe sideways). Most of the hatred for Janeway being an Admiral was just hot air, it actually made perfect sense. It's also not as if Janeway's lines imply she is Picard's direct superior, she was simply delivering orders (from-the-top orders) via a communication.
    • There are good answers below, but come on, this one's easy: Picard took Kirk's advice to heart. He probably got offered more admiralities than Riker was offered ship commands (and we know that's saying a lot), but he turned it down every single time because Picard realized that, like Kirk, his "first, greatest destiny" is captaining a starship. Meanwhile, after seven years of wandering out in the cold, Janeway would take a desk job at Starfleet HQ in a heartbeat.
    • Starfleet realized they had to get her OUT of the Captain's chair as fast as possible.
      • Why not just fire her ass? Or let her teach stellar cartography at the Academy? Her promotion puts MORE people under her command!
      • It would be very hard to fire her, that's just the way all government bureaucracies work. The cartography thing would have been a good idea, though.
      • Perhaps something other than cartography, though. The defining moment of her career was getting really, really, really lost.
      • As an Admiral with a desk job, all of her orders and communications would be a matter of public record, and she'd be heavily scrutinized. It's sort of a combination of Kicked Upstairs and Promoted to Scapegoat / Reassigned to Antarctica. And as the above troper mentioned, there was no way in hell they were ever going to let her command a starship again. Everyone knows starship captains make the real plot changing decisions in Star Trek, and that Admirals are really only there as window dressing. Really it's an example of Starfleet Command being Dangerously Genre Savvy.
      • Here you go Katey, try not to lose the desk.
      • The Dilbert Principle (look it up on Wikipedia). Besides, considering the fine tradition among Trek captains to decide that the rules are closer to guidelines, there may be more people under Janeway's command but very few of them are actually listening to her.
    • I think that in the EU books, everyone got bumped up a rank or two. That would put Janeway straight in the Admiral Section. Besides, under her command, Starfleet made first contact with dozens (if not hundreds) of species, has more information about the Delta Quadrant than it ever could have possibly gained through any other means, and she's acquired technology that will have Federation scientists entertained for years to come. Besides, Picard's probably been offered promotions left and right for years; he just declines them. Look at Riker, who was offered ships left and right throughout his career and chose to stay on the Enterprise. And, of course, Kirk told him not to accept a promotion, and you don't argue with James Tiberius Mother Fucking Kirk.
      • Point taken re: Kirk. If Janeway was just an admiral in the EU, I wouldn't mind so much, but having her pop up and order Picard around in Nemesis, well... Headscratchers.
      • I'm sure there are also a lot of high-level bureaucrats who still resent Picard for wiping out much of Starfleet and killing thousands of their subordinates, friends, and family members at the Battle of Wolf 359. Even if he were inclined to accept a promotion, I doubt any would be forthcoming after that, no matter how many times he singlehandedly saves the Federation's bacon.
      • "Much of starfleet" is an exageration, caused by the people writing TNG at the time having no idea how big a fleet something like Starfleet would require to be operational over an area as big as the Federation. The Dominion War showed a much better scale of numbers, and from that size, the ships lost at Wolf 359 would not be considered a high amount at all. Plus Picard has been offered promotions, he turns them down.
      • Mind you, when Wolf 359 happened, the Alpha and Beta Quadrants were more or less at peace. Starships are probably expensive, space socialist utopia or not, and that's a lot of people that could be occupying themselves with doing something useful instead of crowding the cosmos. Around the time when the Borg attacked, Starfleet would quite possibly have been more like a cross between the Coast Guard and NASA than the Pacific Fleet of World War II. The Borg attacked, cleaned Starfleet's clocks, and along with the Romulans and Cardassians stirring up trouble in later seasons and leading into Deep Space Nine, Starfleet has probably been on a huge expansion program until we see the massed fleets mixing it up on Deep Space Nine. But back at Wolf 359? We probably saw quite a bit of Starfleet's experienced cadre of officers get atomized and assimilated there.
      • The EU books actually give a pretty good explanation as why and how Starfleet went from being the Coast Guard/NASA to the Pacific Fleet rather quickly. They keep a large number of reservists on hand (basically everyone who put on a uniform for more than 30 seconds, and they actually had been building ships at a steady rate which were basically put away for a rainy day. These ships were basically stripped down versions of their active counterparts (for example the Galaxy-class stripped down versions did not have all the science equipment and other "comforts" like the gardens or holodecks)The ships were then stored at various locations around the Federation needing only basic crew and maybe a little maintenance to be fully functional again. Sort of like how the US military keeps a large stockpile of Abrams M1 tank hulls sitting around.
    • My theory is that Janeway's promotion is due to her post-mission debriefing after Voyager's return to the Alpha Quadrant being the most epic act of perjury in galactic history. And the crew would obviously back her up (as its in their best interests to present only the best side of their little trip and 'forget' about the ten trillion or so court-martial offenses they're all guilty of), except for the holodoc, who can be memory-edited. So, Starfleet only knows that Janeway had the most successful trip ever, and doesn't know about all of Voyager's stupid mistakes. Shazam, promotion.
      • Ten trillion court-martial offenses? When was this?
      • She is in the very least guilty of killing a member of her crew for dubious reasons in the episode Tuvix which is almost definately not allowed, she allowed children to be killed because she believed a very clearly bullshit story about how a species ages backwards, and she did work with Vidian pirates in a few episodes which the Federation almost certainly won't approve of.
      • There was that incident of attempted murder when she was interrogating that crewman from from the Starship Equinox.
      • The actual # is of course an exaggeration, but the "Cynics' Corner" Voyager review site didn't have a category labelled 'Court-Martial Offense of the Week' for no reason.
    • Because Picard doesn't want to be an admiral. He was actually offered a promotion to admiral in one episode (complete with a position as Headmaster of Starfleet Academy). He refused both. Picard likes exploring space, he doesn't want to be tied to a desk job on Earth.
      • And, on the other side, after all Voyager went through, one can hardly blame Janeway for finding a certain appeal to a nice solid desk and a house in San Fransisco.
    • I think it's necessary to cut some slack for Janeway, after all she was a rookie captain; mistakes were bound to be made. When Picard got the Enterprise, he'd been captain for like 20 years by that point, Kirk had also been in the big chair for a while by the time Original Trek began. Archer was a rookie captain as well, and he was even more a ditz than Janeway.
      • IIRC, TOS starts off not very far into Kirk's first year as a starship commander. I think 'Rookie' is appropriate.
      • Kirk was a rookie and it does show a little, but they put him in command of the Enterprise for a reason. He was the best. Janeway got a much smaller science ship, because she was not the very best.
      • True, but the regulations for Starfleet captains were apparently much looser in Kirk's day than in TNG. Hell, they didn't even have a Prime Directive in TOS.
      • Sure they did. Kirk just ignored it whenever it proved inconvenient.
      • So, she was a rookie captain. That's fine, we don't think she's a terrible human being for that. But that's even more reason not to make her admiral the moment she gets back.
    • Well, when Janeway returns home, all the higher-ups at Starfleet ask her: "What did you do out in the Delta Quadrant?" And she replies: "Made lots of first contacts, had sex with a Q, made a treaty with some aliens that were even more dangerous than the Borg to not attack us (and we even became friends!), oh, and those Borg guys? Yeah, I killed the queen and gave them a horrible virus that has probably killed off 99% of them. Oh, and here's all the fantastic data we've collected on the way for things like new warp drives, ship schematics, a few time travel devices..." How could they not make her an admiral? Or, they should have at least made her admiral of a Delta Quadrant/deep space fleet where she has the most experience.
      • Basically, beating up on the Borg for four years and living to tell the tale more than merited promotion. Besides, seeing some of the other officers that made Admiral over the years (the one in The Drumhead, for instance), Janeway doesn't look all that bad.
      • For what it's worth, I'm behind this one.
      • I always assumed Janeway no longer had a ship to command. The Federation probably took Voyager away to be studied by the finest minds in Starfleet. Even if they couldn't duplicate the technology, keeping a ship that powerful from falling into enemy hands just makes sense.
    • Most likely, so Star Trek fans could go "Well, at least this film isn't Voyager."
      • Other way around, it was a big "F—- You!" to all the fans who were saying "at least this isn't Voyager", from the people who over the years heard fans going "we want less Neelix" and then went "sure, here is more Neelix" in response. This time it was fans going "thank god for Trek that isn't Voyager, we want to forget that", and so the response was "hey, heard you hate Voyager, here is Janeway a rank above your precious Picard, suck on that one!". The movie theatre I was at had people stand up and leave when Janeway came on screen. The thirty seconds or so Janeway was on screen for the Voyager fans (both of them) cost this film a huge amount in goodwill and probably contributed to its poor reputation as lots of fans were not prepared to cut it anymore slack after seeing her.
      • The nicest way I can put this is: If there are people so needlessly dramatic and butthurt, that the 30 second appearance of Janeway, caused them to get up and leave a movie (they'd paid for) - then there is very little argument that can be made for wasting any time attempting to court them as viewers. Lighten up Francis.
    • Star Fleet used to offer Picard promotions all the time. He kept turning them down. They gave up for a while. Same happened with Riker. He was always being offered his own command, but he would choose the Enterprise instead. He only quit and pursued his own command after he got married. Go figure.
    • It's not the promotion that gets me, it's her area of command. What the hell is she doing overseeing diplomatic relations with the Romulans after being absent from the quadrant and its complex politics for seven years? She was a scientist before becoming captain; why in god's name wouldn't she be heading up a division in any of: scientific research, deep-space exploration, the Borg (or Delta quadrant in general), or first contact? Nitty-gritty diplomatic encounters with Alpha Quadrant cultures whose relationship with the Federation goes back centuries is the exact opposite of everything she's shown expertise at in the last 15 years!
      • This troper I don't think she was in charge of diplomacy anymore then any other branch. She's either just happened to be the one on duty at the time or she just was the one selected to call Picard. Stafleet Command probably recived the Romulan call for a diplomatic meeting, relayed it to the Federation Council and then the Federation Council (doubtlessly after some debate) called up Starfleet Command and told them to send somebody to take the Romulans up on their offer. Janeway just probably happened to be around at the time.
    • For one thing, you need to pull back a little and realize that "Janeway got her ship lost in the Delta Quadrant" is more Memetic Mutation than what actually happened. Her ship got pulled there through no fault of her own, just like a lot of other peoples' ships. Yes, she made a decision that wound up with them stuck there, but it's the sort of decision that Starfleet captains are expected to make, whether it was the right or wrong one. For another thing, I want you to consider this scenario: "Well, Captain Janeway, you've just brought back roughly two hundred people that most everyone thought were dead years ago, reuniting them with their families and friends, and their family and friends, who are not only mostly Federation citizens but at least some of whom are guaranteed to be prominent and/or politically powerful people by the law of averages if nothing else. You've even redeemed the son of one of our prominent admirals, who's also your mentor! ... YOU'RE UNDER ARREST!" Yeah, try finding the Starfleet officer who's willing to commit career suicide for that one. Whatever her fuckups, Janeway would have been perceived as a hero by the general public and a lot of prominent individuals, promoting her to admiral would have nicely served the purposes of both being perceived as an award and getting her the hell out of captaining starships.
    • Q did it. He owed her one.

  • Has the Enterprise-E an area equivalent to Ten-Forward on the Enterprise-D? If so, did Guinan survive ramming the Scimitar?
    • The Enterprise-E was designed to be much more military in its function than its predecessors, in recognition of the fact that the Federation was getting into a lot more fights than it used to (Borg, Dominion, etc.) I would imagine that an actual lounge would be considered superfluous, since unlike the holodecks, the only purpose it serves is recreation and would therefore be out of place on a ship of war. If she's around at all, Guinan may have been given a position as an adjunct counselor under Troi's supervision—just a theory, but it's the only one I can think of. Another possibility is that there is a lounge, it's just not located right at the front of the ship any longer.
      • Given that Guinan is never seen aboard the Enterprise-E, I'm guessing she's not on board at all. (In fact, we never see any civilians on the Enterprise-E.)
      • I'm assuming that she just regenerated. And I don't mean that as a joke. I'm certain that Guinan is a Time Lord.
      • Also, plenty of warships have lounges. War is stressful. Hell, in the military, peacetime can be stressful. A place designated for blowing off steam and having a hot meal and a cold drink (or vice versa or whatever based on your personal preferences and/or Bizarre Alien Biology) is very handy on warships. In any case, it could double as a training area/briefing room/improvised hospital area or whatever else you'd need a big room for. As mentioned elsewhere, they could easily have put the lounge anywhere, or just used the holodecks for the same purpose, or it's possible it's in roughly the same spot and we just haven't had a plot reason to go there yet.
      • One episode of TNG made it clear that Guinan could/thought she could fight a Q, she has a sixth sense that can penetrate the 4th dimension and has a lifespan of hundreds of years. I realize the regeneration quote above is nothing more than a joke, but actually Al-Aurians having some form of incredible endurance may not be amazingly far-fetched. Slightly diminished by Soran dying during Generations but possibly justified in that the missile that blew up in his face contained a star-killing superweapon.
    • Didn't Guinan stay in the Nexus in Generations?
      • That was just a shadow of her, a "fragment" left from when she was briefly inside the Nexus before being transported out by the Enterprise-B.
      • She even cameos in Nemesis! Nothing to say she went with them after the wedding, mind.
  • Why did LaForge have ocular implants again, when he finally got real eyes in the previous movie?
    • It was explicitly stated that the effect wouldn't be permanent once LaForge was no longer under the planet's influence. Of course, why his optic nerves would degenerate for no reason ater being repaired is never explained; it would be getting your car fixed, but having it break down again as soon as you leave the shop. But whatever.
      • That pretty much describes what happens everytime I take my car to a mechanic. I swear they break shit on purpose to make you come back.
      • A better analogy would be to say that it would be like re-growing a severed hand, only to have it just fall off later. Geordi may have been born blind, but it isn't as though his optical nerves are under constant assault.
      • Depending on the nature of the disorder, they probably are constantly being damaged. It's a genetic disorder that affects the eyes themselves rather than the nerves (given that he has milky white cataracts covering his eyes when we see them without the visor), so his lenses are probably constantly forming congenital cataracts as they grow. The magic radiation's somehow repairing the existing damage, but without it, new, damaged cells gradually replace the ones the radiation fixed.
      • Way, way back in the early seasons, Geordi did in fact specify that his optic damage is a degenerative genetic disorder for which there is no treatment, and he's been blind since he was a child. Various EU stuff involving him backs this up, and even mentions other, similar disorders and that there's a variety of ways people have come up with to deal with it and other forms of blindness they can't fix easily. (One woman wore a vest with sensors covering it rather than something over her eyes.) So to put the above comparison in context, it's more like if you had a condition that made the muscles of your hand constantly atrophy until it was a shriveled claw, under the radiation the muscles grew back and you could use your hand, and when you left the radiation your hand shriveled up again.
  • When the Enterprise picks up B-4's distress signal they soon realise that the pieces are scattered on a planet inhabited by a pre-warp civilisation. As established numerous times in the series and movies, this means the Prime Directive expressly forbids any cultural contamination. No-one must know about the existence of alien worlds or more advanced technologies... except Picard has a new dune buggy he wants to try out. They proceed to race around the desert collecting bits of android and then - when the locals show up with their sub-machine guns - fire energy weapons at them, potentially killing or at least seriously wounding several of their troops before summoning a giant flying shuttle and soaring away into outer space. Court Martials for all!
    • Whispering grass, don't tell the trees, 'cause the trees don't need to know.
    • I'd have to watch the movie again to be sure, but I don't remember them saying there was a pre-warp civilization there, just that it was a desert planet on the edge of Romulan space that was M-class but didn't have a civilization on it. Picard thus decided to take the dune buggy out because he felt like getting out of the ship and having some fun, and he had no reason to expect anyone to be there. I thusly assumed the Mad Max style bandits that attack them were actually some of Shinzon's goons that he'd alerted to be waiting for the Enterprise crew and have a go at them, since he knew they'd be by eventually. I could be wrong, but that's just how I always viewed that scene... they use lethal force because "Holy crap, are these guys even supposed to be here? Maybe they're space pirates or something. Whoever they are, they're trying to kill us!"
      • No, the dialogue explicitly states that the planet is inhabited by a pre-warp civilization that live in scattered bands.
  • Riker deals with Shinzon's Viceroy by luring him into a Jefferies Tube, established in all other continuities as being snug crawlspaces sandwiched inbetween the decks of the ship. The two end up fighting on a precarious metal gantry over a huge chasm lit from below by a gigantic white light source. Where on the ship is this, exactly?
    • The Holodeck, obviously.
    • Keep in mind that the Enterprise had just rammed the Scimitar. Where Riker and the Viceroy were likely became distorted by the impact, creating a gap in the decks/superstructure.
    • Why the hell did Riker follow him at all? We know that Enterprise has forcefields that remain on-line even after it rams the Scimitar, and I think it's safe to assume that there's more than one security team on the ship. Wouldn't the tactically correct thing to do have been to isolate the section that the Viceroy was in and send a squad or two in to deal with him?
      • The tactically correct thing to do would have been for Riker to have set his phaser's powerpack to overload and chuck it down the Jeffries tube after the Viceroy. It's not like they have grenades...
      • The minor issue of the Viceroy mentally raping his wife might have had something to do with it.
      • Did Riker know that it was the Viceroy specifically?
      • Yes, Riker knew Troi told the Captain and he was standing right there. Which brings some fridge logic into play. Picard had to have known Riker would take that personally and that Shinzon would only either board himself or send his Viceroy. So why did he send Riker at all? Seems to be a bit of a liability there, not to mention a bad command decision. Now Picard could have been a little distracted at the time though, dealing with a insane clone of himself trying to kill everyone on Earth and all.
      • If memory serves, when Enterprise was boarded, Picard just said "Commander," and gave Riker a significant look. If you want to be charitable, you could argue that the captain never intended to send Riker at all; he just assumed that in a crisis, his XO knew enough to stay at his post. Busy as Picard was, he simply meant to delegate the task of sending in the grunts to deal with the intruders. I like to imagine him facepalming thirty seconds later when he realizes that his second-in-command isn't on the bridge anymore, and double-facepalming when he notices Worf left, too.
    • The Computer core, most likely.
  • The bridge is located on the top of the Enterprise's saucer section. When the viewscreen is destroyed and a large hole forms at the front of the bridge, the view out of the hole is what you'd see if the bridge were at the leading edge of the saucer - given how much bigger the Enterprise-E is than its predecessor you should be able to see the saucer curving away ahead of you.
    • Not necessarily. It depends on how steep the curve of the saucer section is and how high above the saucer section the bridge window is.
    • A nitpick about that scene, admittedly, but one that bugs me none the less: Doesn't it seem like everybody on the bridge should have been killed instantly by some combination of shrapnel, shock wave, and drastic increase of pressure followed by drastic loss of pressure? I'm happy to defer to anybody with ballistics, physics, or medical expertise, but it seems to me that the bridge crew dusted themselves off from that hit way too easily.
      • The whole depressurization thing is massively played up by most movies. This comic rather realistically portrays exactly how dangerous holing the hull would be in most spaceships; once the forcefield is up there's effectively a wall there so they don't need to worry about temperature or radiation issues either. As for shrapnel, it doesn't work like a video game, it's not an area of attack spell that hits everything in its cone, it's dispersed pieces and chunks of metal... it's very dangerous, yes, but it's not a guaranteed hit and kill. Adding to both of these and the question of the shockwave are "inertial dampeners"... they probably mitigated any shockwave, and may also have an affect on anything that tries to move too fast within certain areas of the ship, helping explain why the shrapnel wasn't a bigger problem.
  • This is a common complain in a lot of Trek, but it's been established time and time again that shuttles and runabouts have their own transporter systems, making Data's space-jump to the Scimitar, not to mention his noble sacrifice, unnecessary.
    • Not entirely. Someone had to stop the Thalaron weapon. Simply using the shuttle transporters to beam Picard back wouldn't have helped, as the weapon would still have fired and killed everyone on board. Someone had to sacrifice themselves to stop it.
      • Beam in, shoot guards, overload phaser, beam back out, PROFIT.
    • It's possible that the hanger for the shuttlecraft (or the passages leading to it) was damaged during the battle, making it impossible for the craft to be launched, or for personnel to reach the hanger in the first place.
      • If you watch when La Forge was looking at the locations of the hull breaches three of them occur right in a line going though the main shuttle bay (which is right on the "neck" between the saucer and the engineering section by the way). The secondary shuttle bay (at the very back of the ship in the same location the Constitution-class kept it's main shuttle bay) was probably hit when Shinzon attacked the bottom of the ship to allow his boarding party to beam over. At the very least it would be impossible to get to the shuttles in the secondary bay a timely manner. ALTHOUGH on the other hand they know the transporters are good for at least one more transport, they could have beamed Picard to the secondary shuttle bay and he could have beamed in a whole security team and then beamed them all to the bridge of the enemy ship and won the entire fight in 10 seconds...
      • There's also the Cousteau, Enterprise's captain's yacht. Given the yacht's bizarrely effective combat abilities in Star Trek: Insurrection, launching Cousteau to lay down fire on the crippled Scimitar in the hopes of disabling that ship's super-weapon—and maybe tow Enterprise out of the weapon's firing arc (we've seen a Starfleet runabout tow a Galor-class warship through the wormhole, so it's not that farfetched)—could have been a good idea. Admittedly, though, Cousteau is docked under Enterprise's quantum torpedo launcher, which was an area that likely drew a lot of fire, so the yacht may have been damaged as well.
  • Massive space ships weaving around like F-16s in a dogfight. Not saying it's not possible, especially given that all ships in Star Trek run on Phlebotinum and will thus do whatever the writers and SFX guys want them to do. But yeah, it Headscratchers.
    • Not happening. The Scimitar is unbelievably maneuverable, but its supposed to be since it's the giant badass super ship. Even then, when it drops out of warp at the start of the fight, it overshoots the Enterprise and takes several seconds to bank around and return. The Enterprise is definitely less maneuverable, while the Mogai (Valdores) are more maneuverable than the Enterprise, which they should be, since they're a little over a quarter the size. You can get a good sense of how maneuverable the they all are based on how long it takes to make a turn compared to how fast its moving. To see what it looks like when massive space ships ARE buzzing around like fighters, check the first couple episodes of Star Trek Phase II, before someone told them they had this problem. Here's a quick link to a space scene.
  • This movie acts like the Federation-Romulan alliance formed in Deep Space Nine never happened.
    • The US and USSR went back to hating each other a few months after World War II ended. It's not difficult to imagine the Federation and Romulans had the same falling out after the Dominion War.
    • If we had skipped other series after the end of TNG and gone straight through the movies, the level of cooperation with Romulans by the end of the movie is a bit hard to believe—the reunification movement is way underground, and they had been shown as backstabbing jerkfaces almost every time they had been on screen (with one subversion, maybe a couple more, playing off audience expectations of this). With the (shaky) alliance from the Dominion War, however, it's a little more plausible that they would be willing to bury the hatchet for a moment and fight alongside the Enterprise for a strictly noble purpose. Or at least that's how I feel, having experienced the movies without seeing most of Deep Space Nine first.
    • The Romulan military allied with Shinzon and killed the Senate precisely because of their alliance during the Dominion War; the military thought the Senate was going soft and becoming too friendly towards Earth. The movie opened with most of the Romulans responsible for the alliance dying horribly, and the Federation has no idea where it stands with the new regime. The ending showed that, despite Shinzon and the hardliners' efforts, most of the Romulans don't want to keep fighting the Federation and the hostilities really are ending for good (barring anything crazy happening, like Romulus being destroyed by a freak supernova which opens a temporal rift that creates an alternate timeline).
      • Actually it was very clearly confirmed in an interview with the producers of the 2009 'Star Trek' film that everything in their film is occurring in an alternate version of the 'regular' Trek universe (Orci even mentioned that it was likely to be one of the 'quantum realities' that we saw in 'Parallels'). We have no confirmation that the Romulan Empire was even wiped out by the slower-than-light supernova (facepalm) in the 'Prime' universe.
    • My theory, the new Government of Cardassia realised that it would work out a lot better for them in terms of influence if they could split the Federation off from the Romulans. So they turned to a simple patriot who just happened to have nigh on incontrovertible proof that the Federation conspired to drag the Romulans into war on false pretences and assassinate a Senator (with help from persons, sadly, unknown, of course). So relations got very frosty very quickly. Maybe that is why they have a superweapon, they were already gearing up for a war on the Federation as soon as they could manage to regenerate their losses from the first war.
  • The off-roading scene. Picard mentioned being amazed in an episode of TNG when he saw automobiles in a holodeck fantasy, because automobiles were a thing of the past. Shouldn't people not even know how to drive anymore, because the automobile is obsolete? Then again, it has been established that the director of Nemesis never saw an episode of TNG.
    • The dune-buggy scene was ridiculous, but the first season dialogue suggesting that holodecks were a whole new invention probably fell into Broad Strokes continuity, like the Ferengi's behavior; they've always acted since then like holodecks have been around for years (Voyager characters even talk about growing up with children's programs). At any rate, he's been playing Dixon Hill holodeck programs for several years either way, so automobiles wouldn't be a mystery to him anymore. Now, whether Picard would really be so overjoyed about going on a dune-buggy ride through the desert...
      • How about the Voyager episode "The 37s" where Kim mistakes a truck for an early hovercar? Dumb even by Harry's standards...
      • This is the same canon where television has apparently disappeared. It might be best to just forget that these things were ever mentioned.
    • This actually becomes a wee bit less of a problem if we imagine that the obsolescence of the automobile refers to vehicles with internal combustion engines, rather than wheeled vehicles in general. The wheel won't necessarily outlive its usefulness in the future, and even if you invent a hovercar, it might be prudent to work in some wheels as a fail-safe, or whatever. The problem, however, is that the Starfleet jeep of Nemesis seems far too close to a contemporary vehicle in operation.
  • During Data's wake at the end of the film, the remaining crew toast their fallen comrade... using a wine labelled Château Picard. Huh? given how Picards whole family was killed years before, who the hell is still bottling this stuff? clearly it isn't Jean Luc and Robert had no visible staff during Family - and given how his brother chastised Jean Luc's wine palette getting degraded by synthahol, I find it highly unlikely he actually kept bottles of the stuff just lying around his quarters.
    • Eight years have passed between Generation and Nemesis... some high quality French wines (especially reds) are not meant to be served until decades have passed.
    • Presumably Picard contacted whoever was handling the family affairs back home (the executor of the estate, or however laws work in the 24thC) after Generations and arranged for some staff to be taken on to keep things ticking over. It's unlikely he'd allow the last of the family legacy to vanish given how big he is on tradition.
    • Also, the vintage of that wine bottle is 2267. Picard and Data share some of it in a deleted scene, but even in the finished film the label is fleetingly visible. So at the time, the wine is over a century old — evidently the grapes of the future produce wine that is substantially longer lasting than those of today.
      • Or you know stasis fields...
    • Picard certainly does drink synthahol for the most part, both because of availability and duty to not be seriously impaired at any time while captaining a ship. That doesn't mean he can't keep a decent sized collection or appreciate his family business. His dad was just complaining that he wasn't living and breathing wine every day, like him.
    • Alright not only is this easily explainable, it's 100% canon. Probably something Mr. Baird missed excising all character and continuity moments from the film. At the end of the TNG episode "Family" as Picard is leaving, his brother Robert gives him a bottle of the family wine, with explicit instructions not to drink it alone. So after Data's passing, he opened it up, and he didn't drink it alone...but with family.
      • Nice thought, but in that scene Robert explicitly identifies that bottle as the '47. It seems just as likely it's the bottle Picard and Durken drink from in "First Contact."
    • The simplest answer: In Generations, Picard only says that Robert and Rene burned in the fire. Marie, Robert's wife, survived (I believe she was the one who sent Picard the message about their deaths). It's likely she tended to the vineyards as much as Robert, so she probably stayed on at the vineyard. Just because she wasn't a Picard by birth doesn't disqualify her from being part of the family business.
  • We can possibly justify the super ship and weapon by saying that it was developed the Romulansnote  but how the heck did the Remans get taught advanced medical practices? For that matter when did they learn how to fly the most advanced ship around? The movie introduces them as a slave race that was used as cannon fodder in the Dominion War.
    • These are slaves in the 24th century. You generally want your slaves to live long enough to be productive, and they have to be trained in certain tasks (like flight) if they're going to be fodder. Also, they built the ship, so they should know how to fly it.
      • We see nothing in the movie (nor do we hear anything) to suggest that the Remans were well educated. The flashback we get suggests that they were largely forced to mine for...something. Additionally the idea of fodder in space battle doesn't really make sense. Space isn't two dimensional for them to soak up damage and if they've been enslaved for most of their existence then arming them, teaching them how to fly combat ships and telling them to fight someone they have no quarrel with is an excellent way to make them switch sides.
      • Planetary engagements require footsoldiers. These footsoldiers need to be taught how to maintain their advanced weapons, communication equipment and so forth. You might even want them on the front line flying ships in certain obvious suicide missions. Not to mention their use as laborers in shipyards and other construction facilities. It's more unbelievable that they could construct a monster like the Scimitar in secret. That they could construct it in the first place is reasonable. As for switching sides, the Remans would only do that in the face of a better offer. With the Romulans likely maintaining a hold on the space fleet, they could glass Remus if their slaves got out of line.
      • They mention them being used as shock troops, presumably they were used for planetary conflicts like Marines. Instead of beaming down Romulan citizens just beam armed slaves down instead.
  • So at the start of the film, the entire Enterprise senior staff is taking time out for a wedding. Okay. Then they get on the Enterprise and set course for Betazed, for another wedding. Not okay. Who on Earth authorised Picard to use the Federation flagship as a glorified limousine? This isn't some diplomatic mission, they're literally just ferrying a bunch of people to a wedding. And not even an important wedding, one between two members of the ship's crew! Ever heard of shuttlecraft? Or are we supposed to assume the Enterprise has some mission out that way afterwards?
    • Well, Deanna is the daughter of Lwaxana Troi, a fairly high-ranking member of Betazoid society who is also the Betazoid ambassador to the Federation and one of the biggest pains in the collective ass of Starfleet. Given that the Dominion War is over at this point (meaning there is no critical mission that the ship is needed for), Lwaxana might have managed to pull a few strings (or at least complained about it until Starfleet gave in to shut her up).
    • This problem is all over Star Trek; captains of individual starships often seem to have vast leeway to do what they like and go where they like.
      • TOS was much better about this. On at least two occasions, Kirk had to work around (read: ignore) Starfleet orders to pursue a mission he thought was more critical. In Amok Time he does actually request permission to take Spock to Vulcan, but he knows that it will take some time to get a response, and goes anyways. By TNG, Picard more or less take the Enterprise anywhere he wants for any reason.
      • Maybe the key TNG example is at the tail end of "Symbiosis," where Picard delegates the decision of where to go next to his helmsmen. Geordi picks the Opperline system, because "We've never been there." Seems like reason enough to take the Federation flagship someplace, doesn't it?
      • Actually wasn't Betazed one of the hardest hit planets in the Dominion War? Relief mission anyone?
    • Actually, "go wherever and do whatever unless we specifically give you something else to do" seems to have been Picard's general mission statement since he first got the Enterprise, but definitely after he gets the -E. At a guess, Starfleet seems to have realized that Picard has a really good idea what he's doing and just lets him do it, unless they actually need him to go do this one specific thing. It's not like they desperately need the ship for anything else.
  • So Shinzon's plan is to attack Earth with his big-ass super weapon—fair enough, his ship is powerful, deadly, and apparently has a "perfect cloak." So...then what? Star Trek: Deep Space Nine establishes that Earth is one of the most fortified planets in the Alpha Quadrant—so fortified, in fact, that the Klingons had never even thought of attacking it. The Breen manage to launch a successful raid on Earth, but it was at the cost of every single ship in that fleet. No matter how badass the Scimitar, and how well cloaking device works, that ship is bound to give away its position the instant it opens fire. Even worse, he only brought one ship, Starfleet knows he's coming, and they're going to be ready for him. How exactly did he plan to survive this mission?
    • Shinzon was dying by the second, it's entirely possible he had no intention of surviving. That said, the actual reason was explained in the movie. The Thalaron weapon, the Cascading Biogenic Pulse cannot be shielded against. It goes through all defenses. So even if we assume that he doesn't have to decloak to fire, basically all he has to do is point it at Earth, fire it off and watch everything in front of him die, including the crews of any ships or starbases between the Scimitar and Earth. They would only have the few scant minutes that it takes to deploy to kill him. And according to Geordi the Scimitar defies all known detection methods rattling off residual antiprotons which the Dominion used to detect cloaks and the tachyon signatures used by the Federation. As for the Breen it's a lot easier to infiltrate a large target with a single ship than it is to walk an entire fleet in.
  • When Shinzon reversed his engines to pull away from the Enterprise, why did it work? In the frictionless void of space, and lacking opposing thrust from Enterprise, shouldn't the Scimitar have just drug Enterprise along with it?
    • Maybe he used the deflectors in conjunction with the engines?
      • Which leads to the question, why did Picard let him pull away anyway? The Enterprise's engines still worked at least just keep pushing forward until one of the ships explodes in a ball of fire taking the other with it.
      • It's not clear that the Enterprise's engines did work, at least well enough for them to continue pushing forward. Besides, the original intention was to damage the Scimitar and possibly destroy it with the Self Destruct. After the Self Destruct was disabled, there wasn't much point to forcing the two ships to stay entwined, as the Scimitar could rather easily kill the Enterprise crew in any number of ways besides using their forward weapons. As to the two ships pulling apart, it might have something to do with the inertial dampeners? Who can say.
  • How does the self-destruct go offline, shouldn't all you need to do is turn off the anti-matter containment? It isn't like it doesn't try to fail every ten seconds anyway. Picard should have just turned to LaForge and said "Turn off the antimatter containment will you?"
    • By about the middle of TNG's run, the writers had finally established how a lot of the more common tech in Star Trek worked, and while that was probably a good thing, it necessitated turning a lot of plot elements into wall bangers. With all of the things that we have seen doom Federation starships, it sometimes seems that the only way not to blow up a ship was by activating the auto-destruct (how many times during the series did we see Enterprise-d blow up only to be saved by a Reset Button—hell, in both Cause and Effect and All Good Things... Enterprise exploded several times) . With all of the volatile compounds and equipment that we've seen starships routinely carry, there's really no excuse for a creative captain not being able to get his ship to make a really big boom on fairly short notice.
    • There are supposed to be two different self-destruct methods. The one where the warp core is deliberately breached and causes a massive antimatter explosion, and the one seen in 'Star Trek III: The Search for Spock'' where a series of explosions destroy the most critical components and leave it an unsalvageable hulk. I can understand why the latter would require certain systems to be operational in order to work, but firing a phaser on maximum setting at the warp core should have done the trick for the former. The warp core breach method is only supposed to be used far away from any inhabited planet though, so the best guess I have is that there was one just out of sight.
      • The "phaser to the warp core" method would require someone in engineering to know they needed to take a phaser to the warp core... which I don't think they could do, since I believe shipboard communications were down. (Besides, if you were in the middle of a fight with a ship that you knew had a clone of your captain on board, and your captain suddenly called you and said "Blow up the warp core!", would you do it?) Add to that, since a warp core breach is pretty much "instant death for the ship and anything within viewing distance of it", there's probably pretty heavily-done safeguards... like a nuclear weapon, causing an explosion to the warp core itself might indeed cause a nice big explosion, but only enough to wipe out engineering and the deck above and below or somesuch. Causing a deliberate warp core breach is probably actually quite difficult, as it should be.
      • Okay, why didn't he just send someone from the bridge there? And yes, I would do it if the captain gave me reason why, which Picard could. And we do know that warp core breach does destroy the entire ship.
      • First, because they're in the middle of fighting still and can't just send a runner. And second I think you kind of missed the point. There is a clone of Picard on the enemy ship, thus if Picard suddenly started telling someone to do utterly suicidal things, you'd have to be an idiot to just do it.
  • Why does Picard give his pass code for the auto-destruct sequence out loud so other people can hear it? What's the point of personal passwords if they're not secret?
    • The computer is supposed to cross-check the authorization code with the user's biometrics, which should prevent unauthorized use of an access code; this only ever works when the plot requires it, though. To the show's credit, they're usually (but not always) pretty consistent with the computer requiring at least a voice-print authentication, but this fails fairly often (Data once hijacked the Enterprise with what was essentially a playback attack). So, yeah, Starfleet really, really needs to toughen their computer security.
  • Data's Heroic Sacrifice was apparently written in because Brent Spiner felt he was getting too old to play an ageless android. Fair enough... but this was always planned to be the last outing for the TNG crew. He would never have had to play Data again anyway. Then on top of that, they introduce another Soong-type android who is also played by Brent Spiner. OK, so he's only a minor character compared to his brother, but the film teases the idea he might unlock Data's memories (which, inevitably, fandom, EU and possibly-canon comic Countdown all ran with), so Data's still around and still looks like Brent Spiner. So what was the point of insisting on killing the original?

Star Trek: InsurrectionHeadscratchers/FilmStar Trek (2009)
Star Trek: InsurrectionHeadscratchers/Star TrekStar Trek (2009)

TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from
Privacy Policy