History Headscratchers / SoulSeries

Is Inferno {{Yandere}} for Siegfried? Inferno dumps Cervantes for Siegfried, and even after Siegfried tries to destroy Soul Edge, Inferno still keeps up the Nightmare persona and mimicks Siegfried's fighting style. [[HypocriticalHumor Tira]] lampshades this in one game, but, I mean, come on! How many {{Yandere}} characters can you have? [[CargoShip Cervantes x Soul Edge]]; [[PsychoSupporter Tira x Nightmare]]; [[AllLoveIsUnrequited Xianghua x Kilik]]...

But apparently elects to not remember that he's holding the so called "Sword of Salvation"? If people mistook Soul Calibur for the S of S, that would be fine, but they all seem to believe that Soul Edge is the Sword of Salvation, since many seeking it are hunting Nightmare. Do they all die off without sharing this knowledge, or what? All the people who live seem to be taken as giving a CassandraTruth, butteven that is stretching it when the sword is in the hands of a mass murderer.

* Considering that the series takes place in the 16th century, it's pretty strange that Sophitia is the ''only'' woman that's married. It wasn't unusual for girls to be married at age 15/16 (around Talim's age), and girls like Cassandra and Seung Mina would be considered ChristmasCake material...
** [[NoGuyWantsAnAmazon You presume they get any offers]].
** Single women are more accessible to fanboys and shippers. Story-wise, though, it's a bit more surprising that they're actually doing things out by themselves without any men accompanying them. The Soul series is full of anachronisms, but I think the biggest is women's rights back then.
** Women's right have nothing to do with that. Ignoring for a moment the fact that [[AcceptableBreaksFromReality the game needs a host of female characters]] to keep it varied, most characters have excuses for this: they are either rebellious and not asking for anyone's consent (Cass, Mina, Amy), higher forces ordered so (Rothion being denied by Hephaestus to go along Sophie), they broke the rules regardless of any consecuences falling on them (Ivy, Xianghua, Taki, Setsuka) or they come from fictional places with different customs (Talim). Hilde's probably the only unjustifiable case, but then again Wolfkrone is a fictional pseudo-country, so who knows what are their views on women. Also, there are cases where this issue is adressed, like Han-myeong in ''[=SC2=]'' noting the bad rep he'd get by letting Mina leave on her own.
*** ''come from fictional places with different customs (Talim)'' - Talim is a ''babaylan'' and has a canonical background placing her in a Philippines-like tribe. Before the Spaniards took over and subsumed the country, while expectations and stereotypes still existed, the disparity isn't as uneven. For example, either child can be a ''Datu'' (social/political leader) but only women were ever allowed to be a ''Babaylan'' (religious leader), so Talim, being from a family that rears ''babaylan'' and being one herself, it's not that hard to see why she can have the freedom to do what she wants, even if SC technically happens in the 16th century.
*** '' they are either rebellious and not asking for anyone's consent'' / ''they broke the rules regardless of any consecuences falling on them'' - Which was unthinkable back then. I don't mean as in "Wow, that's pretty rare, nifty!" I mean "HOLY SHIT THAT WOMAN IS DOING SOMETHING WITHOUT THE MAN'S PERMISSION, GET THE FUCKING GUARD". Just the fact that they know martial arts and fighting styles is eyebrow-arching. AcceptableBreaksFromReality, of course, but it's still fun to joke about.
**** This is not necessarily true, there have been times even in the medival period where common women were given power or were largely independent on their husbands, see the Wife of Bath. Also there are few records written by the poor who lived by a different set of rules than the nobility who would be the ones in charge of the records. Besides that given the fighting ability of these women your hypothetical would end in the death of said guard.
**** ''>end in the death of said guard.'' '''STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM.'''
**** Mentioned above, but to reiterate with regards to Ivy (and Hilde, as a fellow aristocrat) in this matter: you can see a portrait of Ivy hanging in the gallery of her mansion (her SC 3 stage) which shows her wearing a much more formal, period-correct dress. It's therefore likely that she only wears her revealing fighting-gear when she's off on one of her Soul Edge quests, as opposed to when she attends [[BritishStuffiness society balls in London]]. Also, as an [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveMoney aristocrat]], she would arguably have more freedom to be eccentric (and dress eccentrically) than a common woman of the time. Also, her native England was ruled by Elizabeth I at the time, who no doubt would have approved of a fellow strong, powerful woman as one of her subjects (revealing outfits non-withstanding!)
**** Seong Mina also has a father who wants him to marry Hwang, but both seem to be worried about a Japanese invasion atleast during Soul Calibur 2. He seems to be somewhat allowing Mina to travel the world, or more darkly she, Hwang and Yun Sung are the only survivors of the many Korean agents sent to claim Soul Edge aka the Sword of Salvation.
**** Also note that it was Sophitia and Taki who defeated Soul Edge in Soul Edge, and Xianghua who damaged Soul Edge in SC1, so most people would probably be a bit more open since the Azure Knight has to be public knowledge by now. The massacres to feed the Evil sword and a knight immune or resistant to bullets would stand out specially with that giant arm. So the average peasant may have heard of the evil sword and more than willing to turn a blind eye on uppity women if they have a rampaging, soul sucking, army stomping monster with a cadre of minions to worry about. Thats not even counting the Evils seen in Soul Calibur Legends, considering the Evil Seed may have awakened anything dangerous world wide.
**** There is also a stage in Soul Calibur 3 with a burning villa with Nightmare's portrait surrounded by the dead and dying, made for a merchant who is collecting stories and knowledge of the evil sword. So the general populace might have heard of mysterious women who fought the Azure Knight in the past and ignore their breaking of gender roles if they can keep a certain soul drinking knight and its minions at bay. So Soul Edge may be the "good" sword since it seems to be more open gender roles in its wake of destruction and soul calibur might be the evil status quo protecting sword.

*** WordOfGod says Voldo does have [[SuperSenses enhanced hearing]]

**** Also note that it was Sophitia and Taki who defeated Soul Edge in Soul Edge, and Xianghua who damaged Soul Edge in SC1, so most people would probably be a bit more open since the Azure Knight has to be public knowledge by now. The massacres to feed the Evil sword and a knight immune or resistant to bullets would stand out specially with that giant arm. So the average peasant may have heard of the evil sword and more than willing to turn a blind eye on uppity women if they have a rampaging, soul sucking, army stomping monster with a cadre of mionions to worry about. Thats not even counting the Evils seen in Soul Calibur Legends, considering the Evil Seed may have awakened anything dangerous world wide.

* The "clothing" the girls wear. I know, RuleOfSexy and EternalSexualFreedom, but by now the outfits are so ridiculous, even that isn't enough to suspend my disbelief anymore. The priestesses of Hephestus are dressing like priestesses of Aphrodite, if you know what I mean. The ninja has aparently never heard of breast bindings, or even some sort of renaissance sports bra- flopping around like that with rapid movement must be downright ''painful'', forget inconvenient. Everyone is either showing more tits than a modern prostitute, wearing a shorter skirt than a modern prostitute, or wearing spandex more than three hundred years before the advent of artificial fabrics. Shura literally exists for no reason besides sexuality, and Ivy... I'm not certain words can describe how many things and to what extent her appearance is fucked up, no pun intended.
** This is why, when I play SCIV, I use the custom character thing to give them more conservative clothing. Like, say, ''armor''.
** and why i hate the clothing destruction mechanic
** What's even more jarring about Ivy is that she's supposedly ''celibate''. Meaning there is no reason for her to dress like that.
*** She is celibate, but she also has a dominatrix personality. She swore never to be with a man, but she never swore she wouldn't be a cocktease.
*** Though this troper is relitavely new to the Soul Series, but from prior knowlege and reasoning, wouldn't Ivy, due to the era and her social standing, be more likely to be wearing a PimpedOutDress?
**** She does, you can see a portrait of Ivy hanging in the gallery of her mansion (her SC 3 stage) which shows her wearing a much more formal, period-correct dress. It's therefore likely that she only wears her revealing fighting-gear when she's off on one of her Soul Edge quests, as opposed to when she attends [[BritishStuffiness society balls in London]]. Also, as an [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveMoney aristocrat]], she would arguably have more freedom to be eccentric (and dress eccentrically) than a common woman of the time. Also, her native England was ruled by Elizabeth I at the time, who no doubt would have approved of a fellow strong, powerful woman as one of her subjects (revealing outfits non-withstanding!)
** Not to mention the girls are much sexier when properly clothed or armored...[[FetishFuel stop looking at me like that.]]
** Um, I don't know about the consoles, but the PSP has alternate costume versions of the characters enabled from the start, so you can choose them if you wish. Namco is catering to both sets of tastes. Ivy's alternate is the ultra-conservative jacket, shirt and breeches. And additionally, celibacy does not always imply conservative dressing. In fact, a character pledged to celibacy might go naked because she's not caring about sexuality at all.
*** which is why clothing destruction was so annoying. take a few hits and you lose an entire set of heavy armor, i used to give all my created characters chain-mail to avoid it.
** Well, I don't know so much about the male Characters' standard outfits (Though a couple of the costumes both now and in the past feature open shirts and the like), but you realize they can just as easily be clad in nothing by a loincloth or tightpants, right? It goes both ways here.
* The general opinion that the only way to beat the Chronicles of the Sword mode is to spam iron sword attacks/anti-AI moves. Speaking as somebody who beat the BigBad Strife with a tambourine wielding dancer, I find this irritating. Maybe it's because my favourite party member (Aeneas) is consigned to 'Doesn't have a decent anti-ai moveset, not worth using' status. Considering I've used him to single-handedly take out five of the enemy units in the final level of the game, I'm slightly bothered by this. (Admittedly I've also soloed it with iron sword user Eurydice, but still).
** Oh, that is because tambourines most basic attack is one of the best anti-ai moves.
** So? That still doesn't mean that the only way to beat the mode is using those types of moves. Maybe the dancers do have a good anti ai attack, but I didn't sit there using it exclusively (I don't even know which move it is, to be honest). I dunno, I just don't like the general tone on the page of 'X, y, and z characters are write offs because of their movesets' when really it's possible to complete the mode with pretty much any set of disciplines so long as you approach the battles in the right way.
*** Horizontal, horizontal, horizontal, works even better with the best weapon for the class (it refills HP every atack for one of the fastest attacking weapons).
** I'm with you here. I'm usually not one to be like this, but to put it bluntly, that's BS. I'm not even close to a world-class player and I beat the whole thing, no spamming easy moves, no guides. All it takes is some skill spread broadly over a number of weapon styles/characters and some patience. It doesn't matter what's good and bad against the AI, you just need to fight with what you know how to fight with.

* The whole concept of Soul Calibur suddenly being evil just bugs me. It appears to come out of nowhere and it seems just like an excuse to end the series at IV. I much prefer the idea that, while not necessarily good, it is at least the enemy of Soul Edge and an ally to the good characters.
** It isn't evil at all, just a KnightTemplar LawfulNeutral. The fact that it cannot talk and hadn't had its own Nightmare-esque host body until Sigfreid picked it up helps the revelation- it couldn't influence behavior as much with short-term hosts, so all anybody noticed was its tendency to fight the ChaoticEvil Soul Edge. Once it gets a host, and can finally do something ''besides'' fight its rival, its lack of caring for human life rears its ugly head.
* What, nobody has mentioned the asspull involvement of characters from outside the game universe? SCII had (depending on which console you got the game for) Link, Heihachi, and Spawn; SCIV had, of all cameos, Darth Vader, Yoda, and whatsisname the Secret Apprentice. In all cases, the explanation is "they went through a portal." I'm not a huge fan of any instance of a game breaking its own canon, the Fourth Wall, and all semblance of common sense (really, none of those characters even fit the host game's particular brand of un-reality), all in the name of shoehorning in another popular something that will sell more copies. What makes it even worse is that several of the 'guest stars' are arguably more powerful than the characters who actually belong in the game. YMMV on that last point, of course...
** Overpowered? Link (Like [[SuperSmashBros normal]]) is the rock bottom of tiers.
** There's nothing wrong with Heihachi being there, the explanation for why he is there is what makes it wrong. It has been showed several times in the Tekken series that they are capable of creating time machines, and Tekken is the future of SC (if the whole Yoshimitsu is Yoshimitsu's ancestor thing is any indication), so it would be perfectly reasonable for him to go there. The others, not so much.
** Link's not exactly a stranger to portals either...
** Crossovers work for some people, not so much for others. Personally I have no problem with it, especially the characters who are fantasy-oriented (Link) or work in an encompassing way (Spawn, seeing as Hell would be a place where past, present and future are entwined). Besides, if it's non-canon for the guest characters it's no big deal.
** The console-specific characters' appearances are obviously not canon, and the Star Wars ones probably aren't either. It's just RuleOfCool in action and a bit more bang for the consumers' bucks.
*** [[GodOfWar Kratos]] is downright non-canon; not only does ''Broken Destiny'' lack a backstory for his involvement unlike everyone else, but his moveset is canonically impossible in the ''God of War'' series (and he doesn't have a LegacyCharacter justification like Link does): here he can use Poseidon's Rage in conjunction with the Icarus Wings, but in ''God of War 2'', Zeus tricks him into [[BagOfSpilling losing]] his ''God of War 1'' powers (which includes Poseidon's Rage) at the beginning of the game, and he only loots the wings a long time after that. ([[MortalKombat9 And it wouldn't be the last time Kratos' guest presence in a fighting game was blatantly marked as non-canon; only that second time, Ed Boon's words makes his non-canonicity clear.]])
* I'm starting to wonder if the only thing people think about when they think of these games is how everyone is dressed. Hell, when people describe the Character Creator, they make it sound as if everyone ''has'' to be dressed Stripperificly, instead of it just being an option. And the actual gameplay rarely even gets a mention. I admit that the Stripperiffic-ness of the cast is pretty ridiculous, but some people make it sound like the Soul series isn't a game, but a disk with half-naked women in it
** Because it ''is.'' Half of the armor in the character creation are just cutesy frilly maid outfits and cat accessories for girls to wear before breaking them off.
*** Except [[Tropers/TheNoun my]] point is that it's also a good fighting game in it's own right, not that the outfits aren't revealing to the point of ridiculousness. I might be alone in this, but I'm capable of looking past the bizarre and revealing costume designs and playing what has come to be one of my favorite fighting game series. Others seem to focus on the costume design exclusively, unless they're complaining about how the AI in 3 cheated all the time.
* What bugs me is the increasingly rediculous character designs. Nightmare looked his best in SC2. Wasn't too bad in 3, but is completely over the top in 4. Sigfried was cool in 3 but again, outragous in 4. Astoroth went down hill similarly.
* Lizardman's derailment from a bad-ass dinosaur into a joke character. He started off as an EvilCounterpart for Sophitia, then in ''III'', he was filled with RageAgainstTheHeavens and could've gone into a real awesome story about his attempt to slay gods themselves. Also had [[AwesomeMcCoolName one hell of an awesome name (Aeon Calcos)]]. Then in ''IV'', he's just a joke character and the laughing stock of some of the SC fandom. I understand that at that point he was losing what made him human and became more bestial, but that could've been done ''without'' resorting into comedy. Instead, he could've led the Lizardmen with cunning guile and became a feasible threat to the SC universe. But alas he was DemotedToExtra.
** Sad indeed, specially considering his ''[=SC4=]'' profile is actually dead serious, and he's treated as a psycho killer who leads his troops into raiding towns and mass killings. Too bad the game itself didn't bothered with that part...
* What's the deal with Necrid? I'm just looking for more of the details, really. He seems really out of place in Soul Calibur II, and seems to have been included to make a deal with the Todd [=McFarlane=] toy company or something. The game reviews I read always said things like '...and Necrid Produced by Todd [=McFarlane=] toys(TM)' as if they'd been paid to advertise the company or it was a legal requirement or something. What was going on?
** You're basically right. Namco struck a deal to make Soulcalibur toys using Todd's company. In return, Spawn would be the XBox char and Todd would get to design a char. Todd came up with Necrid.
** If you're looking for a backstory, Necrid is a former wielder of Soul Edge who was pulled into the dimension where Inferno lives and trapped there for many years. Eventually he escaped but his body was so warped and twisted that he couldn't survive in the human world without the energies from the fragments of Soul Edge.

* See above: ''"At this point in the series, I'm afraid that the story is something the producers '''[[TheyJustDidntCare just don't care anymore.]] Which is sad, because Soul Calibur [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot used to have some of the best stories ever for a fighting game]]'''"''. This. And that's what's bugged me about every game since Soul Calibur II.
** If we're lucky, Soul Calibur V will have little to do with the two weapons outside of them being TheArtifact and Nightmare and/or Siegfried playable. I wouldn't mind if Hilde became the new main character overall. Plus, they've got lots of new characters that have been referenced that could be brought to light. (Rock's son, Sophitia's daughter, etc.) The story could epically change. III's wasn't terrible, persay, but IV's was meh.
*** This troper thinks that Cassandra is the new wielder of Soul Calibur in Soul Calibur V, due to the fact that her big sis, Sophitia, is the new Nightmare. amirite?

*** I think that you are all giving Namco too much credit and that they just did not bother do the research. First of all while the Ottoman Empire wasn't all sunshine and roses, it was much more tolerant towards its religious minorities than any other contemporary empire. Second, Sophitia, Cassandra and any other Greek character from this period would belong to the Byzantine Orthodox Church (since approximately the 4th or 5th century AD), who would have been even more allergic to the old Greco-Roman pantheon. (As a matter of fact, it was the Byzantines who banned the Olympic Games for being "pagan rituals").

** Oh, hey. This troper saw a fanfic once that consisted of this exchange, an awkward silence, and then Mitsurigi being all "yes, that's what I just ''said''. [[YouFailLogicForever Do you realize how stupid that sounds?]]" and ranting for several paragraphs about it. It was amazing.

** If we're lucky, Soul Calibur V will have little to do with the two weapons outside of them being TheArtifact and Nightmare and/or Siegfried playable. I wouldn't mind if Hilde became the new main character overall. Plus, they've got lots of new characters that have been referenced that could be brought to light. (Rock's son, Sophitia's daughter, etc.) The story could epically change. III's wasn't terrible, persay, but IV's was meh.

*** WordOfGod says Voldo does have [[supersenses enhanced hearing]]

**** This is not necessarily true, there have been times even in the medival period where common women were given power or were largely independent on their husbands, see the Wife of Bath. Also there are few records written by the poor who lived by a different set of rules than the nobility who would be the ones in charge of the records. Besides that given the fighting ability of these women your hypothetical would end in the death of said guard.

** If we're lucky, Soul Calibur V will have little to do with the two weapons outside of them being TheArtifact and Nightmare and/or Siegfried playable. I wouldn't mind if Hilde became the new main character overall. Plus, they've got lots of new characters that have been referenced that could be brought to light. (Rock's son, Sophitia's daughter, etc.) The story could epically change. III's wasn't terrible, persay, but IV's was meh.
* In-universe languages in this game confuse me. Mitsurugi and Athur's backstories explicitly mention language barriers (Mitsurugi facing them while in Europe, and Arthur being unable to return to England due to having forgotten how to speak English)...and yet in-game, they all speak the same language, (when Tekken, which is in the same universe, has the characters speaking different languages) AND the games themselves seem to imply that they all understand each other. It just confuses me...even though Tekken is arguably just as bad, when cutscenes show Japanese-speakers and English-speakers talking to each other and understanding each other perfectly...''while speaking their own languages''. But to keep it simple, why does Soul Calibur have everyone speaking the same language? And do they understand each other or not?

* In-universe languages in this game confuse me. Mitsurugi and Athur's backstories explicitly mention language barriers (Mitsurugi facing them while in Europe, and Arthur being unable to return to England due to having forgotten how to speak English)...and yet in-game, they all speak the same language, (when Tekken, which is in the same universe, has the characters speaking different languages) AND the games themselves seem to imply that they all understand each other. It just confuses me...even though Tekken is almost as bad, when cutscenes show Japanese-speakers and English-speakers talking to each other and understanding each other perfectly...''while speaking their own languages''. But to keep it simple, why does Soul Calibur have everyone speaking the same language? And do they understand each other or not?

* In-universe languages in this game confuse me. Mitsurugi and Athur's backstories explicitly mention language barriers (Mitsurugi facing them while in Europe, and Arthur being unable to return to England due to having forgotten how to speak English)...and yet in-game, they all speak the same language, (when Tekken, which is in the same universe, has the characters speaking different languages) AND the games themselves seem to imply that they all understand each other. It just confuses me...even though Tekken is almost as bad, when cutscenes show Japanese-speakers and English-speakers talking to each other and understanding each other perfectly...''while speaking their own languages''. But to keep it simple, why does Soul Calibur have everyone speaking the same language? And do they understand each other or not?

* In-universe languages in this game confuse me. Mitsurugi and Athur's backstories explicitly mention language barriers (Mitsurugi facing them while in Europe, and Arthur being unable to return to England due to having forgotten how to speak English)...and yet in-game, they all speak the same language, (when Tekken, which is in the same universe, has the characters speaking different languages) AND the games themselves seem to imply that they all understand each other. It just confuses me...

* In-universe languages in this game confuse me. Mitsurugi and Athur's backstories explicitly mention language barriers (Mitsurugi facing them while in Europe, and Arthur being unable to return to England due to having forgotten how to speak English)...and yet in-game, they all speak the same language, (when Tekken, which is in the same universe, has the characters speaking different languages) AND the games themselves seem to imply that they all understand each other. It just confuses me...

** If we're lucky, Soul Calibur V will have little to do with the two weapons outside of them being TheArtifact and Nightmare and/or Siegfried playable. I wouldn't mind if Hilde became the new main character overall. Plus, they've got lots of new characters that have been referenced that could be brought to light. (Rock's son, Sophitia's daughter, etc.) The story could epically change. III's wasn't terrible, persay, but IV's was meh.

* See above: ''"At this point in the series, I'm afraid that the story is something the producers '''[[TheyJustDidntCare just don't care anymore.]] Which is sad, because Soul Calibur [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot used to have some of the best stories ever for a fighting game]]'''"''. This. And that's what's bugged me about every game since Soul Calibur II.