History Headscratchers / Se7en

20th Aug '16 3:24:28 PM Dragon101
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** RealityIsUnrealistic: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPuLJYPLl0 There have in fact been voluntary human experiments]] (including some offered by NASA) where people are paid to lie in a bed for a considerable length of time, usually a period of up to a few months, wearing special suits for using the bathroom and being fed by assistants. Within a few ''weeks'' [[BodyHorror you will lose much of your blood volume, your muscles will atrophy (and your body will ''feed'' off your muscles if you don't use them enough), your spine will contort and you will suffer physical pain from staying in one position for a considerable length of time]], not to mention the psychological harm- anxiety, depression, irritability, panic attacks, feelings of intense loneliness and isolation, hallucinations, paranoia, time distortions and psychotic breaks, and still other symptoms. And most of these experiments are performed on young, fit and healthy people who have to pass intensive physical tests just to make sure they are hale and hearty enough to endure the tests. Now imagine you are just Average Joe Drug Dealer, you are being held hostage in this position against your will, your only company is an insane KnightTemplar who is doing this specifically to torture you, and you are in this position for '''a whole year'''. Biting his own tongue was probably something he did in the first few ''days'' of his confinement- because otherwise, he literally would not have had the strength to even ''attempt'' such an act.

to:

** RealityIsUnrealistic: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPuLJYPLl0 There have in fact been voluntary human experiments]] (including some offered by NASA) where people are paid to lie in a bed for a considerable length of time, usually a period of up to a few months, wearing special suits for using the bathroom and being fed by assistants. Within a few ''weeks'' [[BodyHorror you will lose much of your blood volume, your muscles will atrophy (and your body will ''feed'' off your muscles if you don't use them enough), your spine will contort and you will suffer physical pain from staying in one position for a considerable length of time]], not to mention the psychological harm- anxiety, depression, irritability, panic attacks, feelings of intense loneliness and isolation, hallucinations, paranoia, time distortions and psychotic breaks, and still other symptoms. And most of these experiments are performed on young, fit and healthy people who have to pass intensive physical tests exams just to make sure they are hale and hearty enough to endure the tests.test. Now imagine you are just Average Joe Drug Dealer, you are being held hostage in this position against your will, your only company is an insane KnightTemplar who is doing this specifically to torture you, and you are in this position for '''a whole year'''. Biting his own tongue was probably something he did in the first few ''days'' of his confinement- because otherwise, he literally would not have had the strength to even ''attempt'' such an act.
20th Aug '16 3:23:17 PM Dragon101
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** RealityIsUnrealistic: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPuLJYPLl0 There have in fact been voluntary human experiments]] (including some offered by NASA) where people are paid to lie in a bed for a considerable length of time, usually a period of up to a few months, wearing special suits for using the bathroom and being fed by assistants. Within a few ''weeks'' [[BodyHorror you will lose much of your blood volume, your muscles will atrophy (and your body will ''feed'' off your muscles if you don't use them enough), your spine will contort and you will suffer physical pain from staying in one position for a considerable length of time]], not to mention the psychological harm- anxiety, depression, irritability, panic attacks, feelings of intense loneliness and isolation, hallucinations, paranoia, time distortions and psychotic breaks, and still other symptoms. And most of these experiments are performed on young, fit and healthy people who have to pass intensive physical tests just to make sure they are hale and hearty enough to endure the tests. Now imagine you are just Average Joe Drug Dealer, you are being held hostage in this position against your will, your only company is an insane KnightTemplar who is doing this specifically to torture you, and you are in this position for '''ten years'''. Biting his own tongue was probably something he did in the first few ''days'' of his confinement- because otherwise, he literally would not have had the strength to even ''attempt'' such an act.

to:

** RealityIsUnrealistic: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPuLJYPLl0 There have in fact been voluntary human experiments]] (including some offered by NASA) where people are paid to lie in a bed for a considerable length of time, usually a period of up to a few months, wearing special suits for using the bathroom and being fed by assistants. Within a few ''weeks'' [[BodyHorror you will lose much of your blood volume, your muscles will atrophy (and your body will ''feed'' off your muscles if you don't use them enough), your spine will contort and you will suffer physical pain from staying in one position for a considerable length of time]], not to mention the psychological harm- anxiety, depression, irritability, panic attacks, feelings of intense loneliness and isolation, hallucinations, paranoia, time distortions and psychotic breaks, and still other symptoms. And most of these experiments are performed on young, fit and healthy people who have to pass intensive physical tests just to make sure they are hale and hearty enough to endure the tests. Now imagine you are just Average Joe Drug Dealer, you are being held hostage in this position against your will, your only company is an insane KnightTemplar who is doing this specifically to torture you, and you are in this position for '''ten years'''.'''a whole year'''. Biting his own tongue was probably something he did in the first few ''days'' of his confinement- because otherwise, he literally would not have had the strength to even ''attempt'' such an act.
20th Aug '16 3:20:16 PM Dragon101
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** RealityIsUnrealistic: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPuLJYPLl0 There have in fact been voluntary human experiments]] (including some offered by NASA) where people are paid to lie in a bed for a considerable length of time, usually a period of up to a few months, wearing special suits for using the bathroom and being fed by assistants. Within a few ''weeks'' [[BodyHorror you will lose much of your blood volume, your muscles will atrophy (and your body will ''feed'' off your muscles if you don't use them enough), your spine will contort and you will suffer physical pain from staying in one position for a considerable length of time]], not to mention the psychological harm- anxiety, depression, irritability, panic attacks, feelings of intense loneliness and isolation, hallucinations, time distortions and psychotic breaks, and still other symptoms. And most of these experiments are performed on young, fit and healthy people who have to pass intensive physical tests just to make sure they are hale and hearty enough to endure the tests. Now imagine you are just Average Joe Drug Dealer, you are being held hostage in this position against your will, your only company is an insane KnightTemplar who is doing this specifically to torture you, and you are in this position for '''ten years'''. Biting his own tongue was probably something he did in the first few ''days'' of his confinement- because otherwise, he literally would not have had the strength to even ''attempt'' such an act.

to:

** RealityIsUnrealistic: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPuLJYPLl0 There have in fact been voluntary human experiments]] (including some offered by NASA) where people are paid to lie in a bed for a considerable length of time, usually a period of up to a few months, wearing special suits for using the bathroom and being fed by assistants. Within a few ''weeks'' [[BodyHorror you will lose much of your blood volume, your muscles will atrophy (and your body will ''feed'' off your muscles if you don't use them enough), your spine will contort and you will suffer physical pain from staying in one position for a considerable length of time]], not to mention the psychological harm- anxiety, depression, irritability, panic attacks, feelings of intense loneliness and isolation, hallucinations, paranoia, time distortions and psychotic breaks, and still other symptoms. And most of these experiments are performed on young, fit and healthy people who have to pass intensive physical tests just to make sure they are hale and hearty enough to endure the tests. Now imagine you are just Average Joe Drug Dealer, you are being held hostage in this position against your will, your only company is an insane KnightTemplar who is doing this specifically to torture you, and you are in this position for '''ten years'''. Biting his own tongue was probably something he did in the first few ''days'' of his confinement- because otherwise, he literally would not have had the strength to even ''attempt'' such an act.
20th Aug '16 3:18:53 PM Dragon101
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** RealityIsUnrealistic: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPuLJYPLl0 There have in fact been voluntary human experiments]] (including some offered by NASA) where people are paid to lie in a bed for a considerable length of time, usually a period of up to a few months, wearing special suits for using the bathroom and being fed by assistants. Within a few ''weeks'' [[BodyHorror you will lose much of your blood volume, your muscles will atrophy (and your body will ''feed'' off your muscles if you don't use them enough), your spine will contort and you will suffer physical pain from staying in one position for a considerable length of time]], not to mention the psychological harm- anxiety, depression, irritability, panic attacks, feelings of intense loneliness and isolation and other symptoms. And most of these experiments are performed on young, fit and healthy people who have to pass intensive physical tests just to make sure they are hale and hearty enough to endure the tests. Now imagine you are just Average Joe Drug Dealer, you are being held hostage in this position against your will, your only company is an insane KnightTemplar who is doing this specifically to torture you, and you are in this position for '''ten years'''. Biting his own tongue was probably something he did in the first few ''days'' of his confinement- because otherwise, he literally would not have had the strength to even ''attempt'' such an act.

to:

** RealityIsUnrealistic: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPuLJYPLl0 There have in fact been voluntary human experiments]] (including some offered by NASA) where people are paid to lie in a bed for a considerable length of time, usually a period of up to a few months, wearing special suits for using the bathroom and being fed by assistants. Within a few ''weeks'' [[BodyHorror you will lose much of your blood volume, your muscles will atrophy (and your body will ''feed'' off your muscles if you don't use them enough), your spine will contort and you will suffer physical pain from staying in one position for a considerable length of time]], not to mention the psychological harm- anxiety, depression, irritability, panic attacks, feelings of intense loneliness and isolation isolation, hallucinations, time distortions and psychotic breaks, and still other symptoms. And most of these experiments are performed on young, fit and healthy people who have to pass intensive physical tests just to make sure they are hale and hearty enough to endure the tests. Now imagine you are just Average Joe Drug Dealer, you are being held hostage in this position against your will, your only company is an insane KnightTemplar who is doing this specifically to torture you, and you are in this position for '''ten years'''. Biting his own tongue was probably something he did in the first few ''days'' of his confinement- because otherwise, he literally would not have had the strength to even ''attempt'' such an act.
20th Aug '16 3:14:07 PM Dragon101
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** RealityIsUnrealistic: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPuLJYPLl0 There have in fact been voluntary human experiments]] (including some offered by NASA) where people are paid to lie in a bed for a considerable length of time, usually a period of up to a few months, wearing special suits for using the bathroom and being fed by assistants. Within a few ''weeks'' [[BodyHorror you will lose much of your blood volume, your muscles will atrophy (and your body will ''feed'' off your muscles if you don't use them enough), your spine will contort and you will suffer physical pain from staying in one position for a considerable length of time]], not to mention the psychological harm- anxiety, depression, irritability, panic attacks, feelings of intense loneliness and isolation and other symptoms. And most of these experiments are performed on young, fit and healthy people who have to pass intensive physical tests just to make sure they are hale and hearty enough to endure the tests. Now imagine you are just Average Joe Drug Dealer, you are being held hostage in this position against your will, your only company is an insane KnightTemplar who is doing this specifically to torture you, and you are in this position for '''ten years'''. Biting his own tongue was probably something he did in the first few ''days'' of his confinement- because otherwise, he literally would not have had the strength to even ''attempt'' such an act.



*** He said he went after sinners he never said that he '''only''' went after sinners He didn't go after people like the sellers or the clients because he was simply trying to make an example of the Gluttony and Greed victims, not eradicate all bad people. But that doesn't mean he won't kill innocent people to make his point either- the Lust victim arguably wasn't the prostitute, for instance, but the client who hired her, plus he threatened to kill said client AND he shot at Somerset and Mills, and will kill anyone who gets in his way. Besides, he specifically says that he himself is guilty of Envy and needs to be punished for it (in order to turn Mills into Wrath), so he murdered an innocent person for the sake of murdering an innocent person- because it's pretty obvious that he doesn't think murdering "guilty" people is sufficient to make him a sinner. Besides, he wasn't REALLY guilty of Envy- he'd just decided that the ''coup de gras'' of his EvilPlan will be to make Mills into Wrath, and since he has one sin left, the most straightforward way of achieving that is just to pretend that he is Envious of Mills and thats why he killed her- when really, he just needed a flimsy excuse to involve her (and thus Mills) in his twisted story.

to:

*** He said he went after sinners he never said that he '''only''' went after sinners sinners. He didn't go after people like the sellers or the clients because he was simply trying to make an example of the Gluttony and Greed victims, not eradicate all bad people. But that doesn't mean he won't kill innocent people to make his point either- the Lust victim arguably wasn't the prostitute, for instance, but the client who hired her, plus he threatened to kill said client AND he shot at Somerset and Mills, and will kill anyone who gets in his way. Besides, he specifically says that he himself is guilty of Envy and needs to be punished for it (in order to turn Mills into Wrath), so he murdered an innocent person for the sake of murdering an innocent person- because it's pretty obvious that he doesn't think murdering "guilty" people is sufficient to make him a sinner. Besides, he wasn't REALLY guilty of Envy- he'd just decided that the ''coup de gras'' of his EvilPlan will be to make Mills into Wrath, and since he has one sin left, the most straightforward way of achieving that is just to pretend that he is Envious of Mills and thats why he killed her- when really, he just needed a flimsy excuse to involve her (and thus Mills) in his twisted story.



* Frankly, John Doe should have been pride. Go back to Milton, the belief that one who is not god has the ability to make judgements in his name is the ultimate example of Pride, which is suppose to be the greatest of the sins. After all, Satan himself is associated with it. John never shows any hint of envy, in fact other than pride and disgust, he shows very little emotion. Envy should have been Sommerset, who clearly is somewhat jealous of MIl's loving relationship.

to:

* Frankly, John Doe should have been pride. Go back to Milton, the belief that one who is not god has the ability to make judgements in his name is the ultimate example of Pride, which is suppose to be the greatest of the sins. After all, Satan himself is associated with it. John never shows any hint of envy, in fact other than pride and disgust, he shows very little emotion. Envy should have been Sommerset, who clearly is somewhat jealous of MIl's Mill's loving relationship.relationship.
** A common trait of Pride in people who think Pride is bad but are nonetheless guilty of it is the refusal to admit to oneself that one is Proud. Doe would rather pretend to have Envy (which it's obvious is just an excuse - it's doubtful he actually believes it) than admit that he is simply a madman with grandiose delusions. It's painfully obvious that he is guilty of Pride; at the same time, it's painfully obvious that he won't admit to it- after all, another trait of Pride is the refusal to admit that you have done anything wrong.
29th Apr '16 12:45:28 AM XDiakos
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*** John Doe envied what Mills had (e.g. wife, "children", a "normal" life)
*** The question being, if he secretly wanted to be wrath (which would make sense considering his actions), then envy is still missing since he had only one sin per person up til this point.

to:

*** John Doe envied what Mills had (e.g. wife, "children", a "normal" life)
life).
*** The question being, if he secretly wanted to be wrath (which would make sense considering his actions), then envy is still missing since he had only one sin per person up til this point.
point. One could argue, on the other hand, if Doe is the Wrath victim, that Tracy is therefore the Envy victim.
20th Apr '16 9:04:21 PM Luppercus
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** I thought a drug-dealer was perfect as example of sloth, as selling drugs is not a real job and requires very little effort at exchange of a lot of money. Though be a child molester will be more connected to Lust.

to:

** I thought a drug-dealer was perfect as example of sloth, as selling drugs is not a real job and requires very little effort at in exchange of for a lot of money. Though be a child molester will be more connected to Lust.
20th Apr '16 9:03:37 PM Luppercus
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Added DiffLines:

**I thought a drug-dealer was perfect as example of sloth, as selling drugs is not a real job and requires very little effort at exchange of a lot of money. Though be a child molester will be more connected to Lust.
18th Apr '16 7:13:36 PM CockroachCharlie
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to:

*** The question being, if he secretly wanted to be wrath (which would make sense considering his actions), then envy is still missing since he had only one sin per person up til this point.
21st Feb '16 4:46:37 AM Evighet
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Frankly, John Doe should have been pride. Go back to Milton, the belief that one who is not god has the ability to make judgements in his name is the ultimate example of Pride, which is suppose to be the greatest of the sins. After all, Satan himself is associated with it. John never shows any hint of envy, in fact other than pride and disgust, he shows very little emotion. Envy should have been Sommerset, who clearly is somewhat jealous of MIl's loving relationship.

to:

\n** [[spoiler:Tracy]] is killed because [[spoiler:she]] is the ''wrath'' victim. Back in Dante's day [[spoiler:if a man was sentenced to death he could be allowed to live if his wife and children were killed in his place - thus taking away his reason/will to live. Doe kills Tracy (and the unborn baby but that was a fluke on his part) in place of David, making David the one guilty of wrath and the loss of Tracy and the child his punishment.]]

*
Frankly, John Doe should have been pride. Go back to Milton, the belief that one who is not god has the ability to make judgements in his name is the ultimate example of Pride, which is suppose to be the greatest of the sins. After all, Satan himself is associated with it. John never shows any hint of envy, in fact other than pride and disgust, he shows very little emotion. Envy should have been Sommerset, who clearly is somewhat jealous of MIl's loving relationship.
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