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*** They killed Varney without asking Islington to endorse their doing so, though. And Varney wasn't actually obstructing their work at the time they did so, even if his loss to Hunter did mean they'd wasted a bit of time recruiting him.
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** Portico was in contact with Islington. Presumably the angel told him that he was sending someone to discuss their mutual plans, and that someone turned out to be Croup and Vandemar: a fact that Portico didn't realize until too late.
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*** That wouldn't explain why they assumed it was cheating them when it headed for the door, though. Probably they were expecting a more tangible form of payment ''before'' Islington left; if it had wine from Atlantis, who knows what other irreplaceable ancient treasures it may have had lying around, that Croup would've delighted in destroying?
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*** Heck, what about Master Longtail? No reason to confine our WMGs to human characters....
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*** Heck, what about Master Longtail? No reason to confine our WMGs [=WMG=]s to human characters....
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**** Hunter is certainly one of the gay characters, as the novel reffers to a previous relationship with another woman. She certainly appears to have had a history with (and is the same age as) Serpentine. I assumed that Vandemar always had a thing for Croup (again in the novel he chooses to let go at the end and follow Croup into the abyss).
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*** Heck, what about Master Longtail? No reason to confine our WMGs to human characters....
**** Hunter is certainly one of the gay characters, as the novelreffers refers to a previous relationship with another woman. She certainly appears to have had a history with (and is the same age as) Serpentine. I assumed that Vandemar always had a thing for Croup (again in the novel he chooses to let go at the end and follow Croup into the abyss).
**** Hunter is certainly one of the gay characters, as the novel
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*** Or, given the topographical weirdness of London Below, that ''anyone'' familiar with it can walk from one era to another If they know the right pathways. It'd certainly explain the local fashions.
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** Oh! This made something click for me. I had been bothered by the dangling thread -- Door wondering how Croup and Vandamar got into their home, since it should only have been accessible to Openers. But if Islington won the trust of one of her ancesters, and found out how to get in, and shared the information...
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*** I always thought of them as having either rescued her from dying of exposure or possibly brought her back to life- I don't think that she's currently dead, though, either way (at least before the bridge...).
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** Since he has to do it via proxy, maybe he didn't want Croup and Vandemar finding out about the Black Friars and killing them for the lols. After all they killed Marquis before they had been given the okay to do that, and commonly propose MurderIsTheBestSolution to any problem (on top of figuring out ways to get around being told not to kill such and such), whilst he needs the Friars alive so people can pull off the three ordeals.
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* The way Anesthesia describes how she got to London Bellow sounds a lot like she died of exposure. Could this mean London Bellow is a sort of afterlife and everyone who "lives" there is dead?
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** Could be that they can only use their abilities when doing something for somebody else, like a variation of the VampireInvitation. They take the role of hired killers because that's the only way they can use their talents and get something out of it, which stops them from simply ravaging everything and taking what they want, or killing their employer while on their contract. This is why Croup gets so angry at Islington - he enjoys killing people but can only do it when other people tell him to (or it could be seen as related to the mission, such as killing Richard to stop word getting out). When he's directly told he can't kill someone it's impossible for him to do so, which pisses him off to no end.
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** [[ComplexityAddiction There's a trope for that.]]
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** I just figured that the work [[LovesTheSoundOfScreaming pays]] [[EvilFeelsGood for]] [[CardCarryingVillain itself.]] They feel (and I use the term loosely) honor-bound to only do things that a) they're hired to do, and b) Croup figures are worth their time, talents, and energy. Perhaps Croup thought that anything a freaking angel tells them to do falls under criteria B. However, since they quite clearly enjoy what they do so much, the chance to play havoc seems to be all the pay they need. As said, they feel bound to only cause such chaos when hired for it.
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** And nice suits.
** They wanted to be in favour with Islington when he became God. He's probably promised them power over a portion of the human population to torture and eat at their leisure.
** They wanted to be in favour with Islington when he became God. He's probably promised them power over a portion of the human population to torture and eat at their leisure.
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** Islington will endure for eternity. From his point of view, he will eventually achieve his goal. Who knows how many people he's sent to their deaths before? A fair portion of them must be on the memorial wall the Black Friars keep. Furthermore, from the book at least, it's likely he knew Door's ancestors from quite a while back. Door's family are Openers: who knows how many times he's enlisted members of her family to try and open his prison.
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* How exactly does everyone get back to the Black Friars' monestary after the climax? The abbot just says "I had you brought here". How? And how did he know that they'd need his help in the first place.
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* How exactly does everyone get back to the Black Friars' monestary after the climax? The abbot just says "I had you brought here". How? And how did he know that they'd need his help in the first place.place?
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** Richard is dissatisfied with the normal world. (Though he doesn't realize it till the end.) This probably made it easier for him to see Door, as she's from another world.
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* How exactly does everyone get back to the Black Friars' monestary after the climax? The abbot just says "I had you brought here". How? And how did he know that they'd need his help in the first place.
** Well, he knew that they had the key, so he knew they'd be heading to Islington's prison. I presume the monks have a few of those tokens lying around, so they'd be able to get through the labyrinth. As for how he knew that the main characters would need help...I guess he just figured that Islington was bound to do something nasty? Though that doesn't explain the impeccable timing of the whole thing...
* So, Islington has Croup and Vandemar make a fake journal entry by Door's father, telling her to "trust Islington". So she talks to Islington, who tells her to get the key from the Black Friars. Then she has to take the dangerous route to Islington to bring him the key, because the earlier route only works once. But why does Islington make this so complicated? He could have just arranged for the initial journal entry to say "Get the key from the Black Friars and take it to Islington."
* How does Islington expect anyone to be able to get the key from the Friars, when so many have tried and failed in the past? Is it just sheer luck (from his perspective) that Richard is able to beat the ordeal?
** Well, he knew that they had the key, so he knew they'd be heading to Islington's prison. I presume the monks have a few of those tokens lying around, so they'd be able to get through the labyrinth. As for how he knew that the main characters would need help...I guess he just figured that Islington was bound to do something nasty? Though that doesn't explain the impeccable timing of the whole thing...
* So, Islington has Croup and Vandemar make a fake journal entry by Door's father, telling her to "trust Islington". So she talks to Islington, who tells her to get the key from the Black Friars. Then she has to take the dangerous route to Islington to bring him the key, because the earlier route only works once. But why does Islington make this so complicated? He could have just arranged for the initial journal entry to say "Get the key from the Black Friars and take it to Islington."
* How does Islington expect anyone to be able to get the key from the Friars, when so many have tried and failed in the past? Is it just sheer luck (from his perspective) that Richard is able to beat the ordeal?
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** Richard is also a Scotsman in London, making him a sort of outsider also. He's used to being out of place and seeing things that other people would just pass by without a thought. Also if I remember correctly, Door specifically tried to open a door to someone who could help her.
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** Presumably, [[spoiler: Heaven]] has really great pottery.
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* I've always wondered how Croup and Vandemar are paid. They are so insanely powerful, couldn't they just take anything they wanted? So what sort of payment did Islington promise them and what did their former employers have to offer? I even asked Neil on his tumblr, but he never replied.
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** She provides aid and shelter to the protagonists in a time of need. She's basically a breather episode between two dangerous encounters, much like Rivendell in ''TheHobbit''.
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** She provides aid and shelter to the protagonists in a time of need. She's basically a breather episode between two dangerous encounters, much like Rivendell in ''TheHobbit''.''Literature/TheHobbit''.
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*** Belowers aren't necessarily invisible to Abovers, either. Jess sees Door, and the homeless man who approaches Richard at the ATM obviously expects to be able to converse with him. It seemed to me that Belowers (or London Below itself) inspire apathy in Abovers to varying degrees, depending on the Belower and/or their condition/status, and Richard, being perhaps more compassionate than most, tends to notice Belowers more.
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*** What about Old Bailey?
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*** Given his penchant for collecting favours, he's probably combining the above with getting the Warrior in his debt. He needs to restock that arsenal, after all...
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** WordOfGod listed the title of the possible sequel as ''The Seven Sisters'' of which Serpentine is a part. So I buy into the "ChekhovsGunman for a SequelHook" theory.
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** Despite their power and capability, Croup and Vandemar (especially Croup) were rather petty - it may be possible that they were scared of anything even remotedly capable of hurting them.
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*** Yes, I got the impression throughout the book that the Marquis is very intuitive and genre savvy.I think he had a very strong idea that Richard would want to come back, whereas Door might not have been too sure.I think he noticed that Richard was becoming more and more of a Belower as the story progressed.
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** Door is too obvious, the scene would play too close to Richard sinking into madness. Maybe she felt he should return on his own before she dared let herself approach him. I figure the Marquis is the less predictable one, so Richard might be more willing to trust him on a return to the undercity and out of mundane existence.
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** While it's never outright stated, it's implied that Door unconsciously opened something within Richard that allowed him to see her, and become a heroic person. She was fleeing Croup and Vandemar blindly, and opened without thinking, only trying to find some kind of safety. This brought her to Richard, and the rest is history.
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* Why was Richard able to see Door in the beginning of the book? I mean, Richard even asks this question and Door responds with something like "I don't know, that was strange" and then it's never addressed again, as far as I could tell.
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* So, around the end of the book, Richard is telling his once-friend Gary about his adventures in London Below. Gary is incredibly skeptical, and says that Richard was likely in fact hallucinating, which Richard admits is possible. This is a;; fine and dandy, except that that would leave an enormous plot-hole as to where Richard got Hunter's knife, WHICH HE BLOODY HAS AT THE TIME.
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* So, around the end of the book, Richard is telling his once-friend Gary about his adventures in London Below. Gary is incredibly skeptical, and says that Richard was likely in fact hallucinating, which Richard admits is possible. This is a;; all fine and dandy, except that that would leave an enormous plot-hole as to where Richard got Hunter's knife, WHICH HE BLOODY HAS AT THE TIME.
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* Major VillainBall moment: Door and company were already comming to Islington on their own, suspecting nothing (presumably no one knew yet that the Marquis is BackFromTheDead). Why then set Croup and Vandimar to kidnap her on the last bit of the journey then? If for any reason the Marquis couldn't make it to warn them, they would have handed over the key to Islington and been none the wiser. (If they started to catch on at that point, *then* sic the thugs on them.)
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* Major VillainBall moment: Door and company were already comming coming to Islington on their own, suspecting nothing (presumably no one knew yet that the Marquis is BackFromTheDead). Why then set Croup and Vandimar to kidnap her on the last bit of the journey then? If for any reason the Marquis couldn't make it to warn them, they would have handed over the key to Islington and been none the wiser. (If they started to catch on at that point, *then* sic the thugs on them.)
