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*** Wait, what's the evidence for Richard's bi-ness?
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** It's possible that [[HumanoidAbomination Mr. Croup and Mr. Vandemar]] simply exist outside of time, and can travel up and down it as easily as one can travel up and down the street.
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*** I severely doubt that either Mr. Coup or Mr. Vandemar qualify as part of mankind
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*** I severely doubt that either Mr. Coup or Mr. Vandemar qualify as part of mankindmankind.
*** Richard couldn't have known that when he first encounters them, though. Suspects it, maybe.
*** Richard couldn't have known that when he first encounters them, though. Suspects it, maybe.
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** This troper actually saw it as a SequelHook, with the possibility Serpentine will revive Hunter as one of the [[OurVampiresAreDifferent Velvets]].
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Back to the Marquis greeting Richard, I always assumed that he knew all along that it was Richard's destiny to return to London below, and very much enjoyed showing up Richard's mistaken return to the upworld.
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*** It probably is also deliberately ironic on Croup's part, since he and Vandemar aren't remotely human.
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** She takes Hunter's body, which gives the character decent closer as she's the closest thing to family we see Hunter have in the story.
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** She takes Hunter's body, which gives the character decent closer as she's the closest thing to family we see Hunter have in the story.
** She provides aid and shelter to the protagonists in a time of need. She's basically a breather episode between two dangerous encounters, much like Rivendell in ''TheHobbit''.
** She provides aid and shelter to the protagonists in a time of need. She's basically a breather episode between two dangerous encounters, much like Rivendell in ''TheHobbit''.
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Adding an opinion
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**** Hunter is certainly one of the gay characters, as the novel reffers to a previous relationship with another woman. She certainly appears to have had a history with (and is the same age as) Serpentine. I assumed that Vandemar always had a thing for Croup (again in the novel he chooses to let go at the end and follow Croup into the abyss).
Back to the Marquis greeting Richard, I always assumed that he knew all along that it was Richard's destiny to return to London below, and very much enjoyed showing up Richard's mistaken return to the upworld.
Back to the Marquis greeting Richard, I always assumed that he knew all along that it was Richard's destiny to return to London below, and very much enjoyed showing up Richard's mistaken return to the upworld.
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** Two points: (1) It's just a quip. Croup likes the sound of his own voice. The quip is more amusing to Croup than just saying "I lied." (2) Croup speaks rather old-fashioned English; go back only twenty, thirty years and "men" and "brothers" are not specifically masculine terms, but can often be taken to include "women" and "sisters" as special cases.
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**She takes Hunter's body, which gives the character decent closer as she's the closest thing to family we see Hunter have in the story.
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** Croup and Vandemar were scared of the Beast of London, and Hunter's killed multiple similar beasts. Not to mention that she's mentioned as capable of matching the two of them in a straight fight. It's certainly possible that they were scared of her.
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** VillainTeleportation. It's how Mr. Croup caught the Marquis during the confrontation with Islington.
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*** I severely doubt that either Mr. Coup or Mr. Vandemar qualify as part of mankind
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* What was the point of Serpentine? As far as I remember she shows up, says 'hello' to Hunter and then never appears again.
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** That would work if "brothers" wasn't a masculine term...but it is. So I don't see how that works.
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** Man = mankind.
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**** The knife's existence does no such thing. From the viewpoint of a sensible, normal guy like Gary it mean just that Richard either owned an exotic knife, or swiped or found it from somewhere. It doesn't make the experience any realer to a third party.
***** To expand, it's like if I disappeared for a month, then showed up with a unique deerstalker and declared it as proof that I had been going on space-adventures with Sherlock Holmes. ([[BeamMeUpScotty I know]], I'm just trying to make an obvious example.) People would still think I was insane, and indeed, I could still easily be. As a side note, you could technically just interpret the ending and Richard going irreversibly insane, but that would just be depressing.
***** To expand, it's like if I disappeared for a month, then showed up with a unique deerstalker and declared it as proof that I had been going on space-adventures with Sherlock Holmes. ([[BeamMeUpScotty I know]], I'm just trying to make an obvious example.) People would still think I was insane, and indeed, I could still easily be. As a side note, you could technically just interpret the ending and Richard going irreversibly insane, but that would just be depressing.
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** I think RuleOfCool holds here. The ending is just slicker and more final if Richard is greeted by the Marquis.
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* When Richard points out that Croup and Vandemar lied about being Door's brother, Croup says that all men are brothers. But Door is a ''woman''. Explain how that quote makes any sense in context.
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** I thought that was Islington's help?
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***** Having just watched the miniseries, that does not sound like it. No houses get burned, and the angel ''does'' get his drink on.
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* So, how did Mr. Vandemar and Mr. Croup get into the House Without Doors?
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* Hunter's spear. Just what Spear was it? Longinus'? Gungnir? Gae Bolg?
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** Merely Mr.Croup and Vandemar taking the initiative whilst honoring their contract to the letter. The Labyrinth is a very dangerous place after all.
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* Major VillainBall moment: Door and company were already comming to Islington on their own, suspecting nothing (presumably no one knew yet that the Marquis is BackFromTheDead). Why then set Croup and Vandimar to kidnap her on the last bit of the journey then? If for any reason the Marquis couldn't make it to warn them, they would have handed over the key to Islington and been none the wiser. (If they started to catch on at that point, *then* sic the thugs on them.)
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** No, it was likelier a strategic move to hire her before the Marquis did.
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** [[Pride Pride]]
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** [[Pride [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Pride Pride]]
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** Pride
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** Pride[[Pride Pride]]
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** No, it was likelier a strategic move to hire her before the Marquis did.
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** Pride
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* What made Islington feel so certain he could waltz back into heaven and just take it over single-handed?
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* Were Croup and Vandemar actually scared of Hunter, considering they bargained with her instead of just threatening her or killing her like they do everyone else?
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A snippy rebuttal to a snippy answer.
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*** No, not at all. The ability of {{FanGirl}}s to see subtext everywhere is still beyond me.
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** The Altogether Different Prologue (at the end of the Author's preferred version ) has them leaving the monastery massacre and Mr Croup saying their next job is 'About 400 years from now (in) London Below' which suggests they have either precognition or time travel.
