History Headscratchers / Neongenesisevangelion

** The answer is simple enough. The original episodes 25 and 26 were in fact the planned ending to the series. It's a common theme in Anno's work (compare with ''Gunbuster'', for example,or the direction he was taking ''Manga/KareKano'' in before he was removed from the project). D&R and [=EoE=] were both created largely in reaction to fan response, in particular the large number of death threats Anno received over episodes 25 and 26 (some of which are shown on screen during [=EoE=]). Thus, while episodes 25' and 26' are not truly a "screw the fans" section, that is a part of it. In fact, all 4 episodes show the exact same ending, simply from different points of view. Episodes 25 and 26 show an internal (mental) view of Complementation itself, 25 from within Asuka, Misato, and Shinji's minds, 26 from within Shinji's only. Episodes 25' and 26' then show an external (physical) view of the events leading up to and beyond Complementation, with some additional mental clarification.

* I'm not sure I get the MagnificentBastard status Gendo has in the fandom. From what I can tell, his plans are fairly straightforward and even then they only work half the time. He spends most of the time sitting around [[GendoPose steepling]]. I get the feeling he somehow gets credit for the fact that a lot of coincidences worked out in his favor.

** Nobody knows what the internal politics of SEELE are like, if the old men we first see Gendo talking to are the same ones he'd talked to a week before (or if they were accurate representations ever). There are any number of reasons why they might have a discussion about this that ends with "Enough, we're doing monoliths now".

** Gendo might well have mistreated Shinji ON PURPOSE, planning to use him as a key in his plans to achieve instrumentality. The fact that he parted with son and behaved like a jerk around him immediately after Yui's death only reinforces that impression, that he worked to harden Shinji's psychological barriers in order to make him an Eva pilot. Emotional withdrawal and abandonment coupled the constant verbal abuse with the exception of one compliment are all gaslighting tactics that abusers will use to keep their victims dependent on them, keeping them from leaving.

** Nobody knows what the internal politics of SEELE are like, if the old men we first see Gendo talking to are the same ones he'd talked to a week before (or if they were accurate representations ever). There are any number of reasons why they might have a discussion about this that ends with "Fuck it, we're doing monoliths now".

** Gendo might well have mistreated Shinji ON PURPOSE, planning to use him as a key in his plans to achieve instrumentality. The fact that he parted with son and behaved like an asshole around him immediately after Yui's death only reinforces that impression, that he worked to harden Shinji's psychological barriers in order to make him an Eva pilot. Emotional withdrawal and abandonment coupled the constant verbal abuse with the exception of one compliment are all gaslighting tactics that abusers will use to keep their victims dependent on them, keeping them from leaving.

** Aum Shinrokyou hit the headlines while the show was running, [[TooSoon forcing a hurried rewrite the second half of the plot]]. Part of this is Japan's self-image of having next to no violent crime, hence why the sarin gas attacks were such a shock.

** ''You'' try dealing with Gainax's fanbase. If you still believe, after six years of trying to pander to Japanese otaku, that humanity is ''not'' at an evolutionary dead end and that destroying the human race in order to save it is an ''over''-reaction - well, let's just say you're a far more charitable man than Anno.
*** Point. Remind me not to attend any anime cons in the foreseeable future.
*** I'd like to point out that researchers argue as to how valid the Flynn effect is. Several claim that it's simply a matter of comprehension and people are learning how to easily get high scores on outdated IQ tests that often challenges comprehension more than intellect. One particularly noteworthy support for this claim is that people like DaVinci (who are supposed to have genius intellects) would fail our modern IQ test because he never learned the method to take it properly. Others claim it is valid but the 20 point progression seems implausible and that it must be increasing at a slower rate.
*** There can still be mutation and selection without any significant progress, or a population with too little genetic variation to end up imploding.
*** Are you talking about otaku or are you talking about the human race generally? Do otaku normally have a chance to reproduce at all? I always thought that this was a self-limiting mutation that prevented itself from being passed on.
*** Hah, hah, real funny, *** er... Look, if b-movie fandom can be passed on (and if you don't believe me, visit the B-Movie Message Board and count the parents), otakudom can as well.
*** Hmm. Maybe Anno is more of a fan of Greg Bear (read "Blood Music" some time) than Bruce Sterling, at least when it comes to transhumanism. Greg Bear's 1983 short story "Blood Music" is about genetic engineers creating a superintelligent life form in the lab, which then decided to incorporate all life into itself in a very Instrumentality-ish fashion.

** On the other hand, why would rational people get involved with5D
** It is never stated that they mean 'genetic' ep://www.newsweek.com/id/96399 As soon as I saw this...]]
** It is never stated that they mean 'genetic' evolution. There are many other kinds, and the series is far more based on Jung's writings than any existing SciFi works anyway. Note: ''Instrumentality'' is a mistranslation, Complementation is the correct term. There are whole books (read: [=PhD=] thesi) written about this series in Japan. As for the "evolutionary end" concept, presumably they got it from the same Dead Sea Scrolls that told them the Angels would be attacking, what order they would be in, what to do about it, and what some of their suboordinates my try to subvert. While it's canon that Yui was a member of Seele, it's never clear on how much involvement she actually had, or how much knowledge of the actualy events she was given. Manipulating people is the Committee's speciality, after all. Convince everyone that what they are doing is a war for survival (not too far off the mark anyway) and most of them will go right along with it, especially when the Angels begin their attacks.
*** Building on this idea, I took it that SEELE et al thought that humanity was at an evolutionary dead end not so much intellectually or physically but rather emotionally or spiritually. Instrumentality was an attempt to solve the problems of individual isolation, alienation, depression and suchlike (philosophical/psychological problems), which mankind has been wrestling with (arguably) unsuccessfully since forever. Also, most of these types of problems seem to get worse rather than better as the culture advances in intelligence and wealth (otaku-ism and hikikomori-ness, two of the issues Anno was reportedly specifically concerned with in the creation of this series, are definite symptoms of this). Anyway, just some troper's two cents.

** I think they could have, but chose not to.
*** They probably wanted to make sure Bardiel was completely dead, considering the implication that Bardiel IS the EVA, or something close to that. ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' has it where Bardiel is the SOUL of the unit itself, and you can recruit Touji in it by basically [[DefeatMeansFriendship Friendship Through Superior Firepower]]. And SRW tends to use a lot of AllThereInTheManual.

*** Actually this is something that Kaji talks about in the manga adaption of the anime (which is quite a bit different and, in this troper's personal opinion, mostly a vast improvement). He tells Shinji that he could have stepped in to save him if he really tried, saying that it was entirely Shinji's fault for allowing Gendo to use the dummy plug. This seems rather harsh, especially as [[spoiler:in this version of the story, Toji is killed in the battle]], but most people would agree that Shinji should have done something about it.

*** Wow, all that just for [[DisproportionateRetribution punching her son]] 14 episodes ago...

** Also, I think it may be some element of TheTrainsRunOnTime. Gendo has one of the best jobs in the world; directorship of a UN NGO with huge discretionary funds and no oversight committee. He ''is'' the obstructive bureaucrat who makes the system not work right.
*** What do Gendo's actions (or inactions) have to do with how names are written? I mean, I know it's probably a mispost, but what the hell?
** I think it's pretty common in Anime for Japanese names to be written in kana.

** As you correctly mentioned, defeating angels is just an "excuse" for the premise. NERV's real concern was not them, but rather triggering Third Impact according to SEELE's scenario. For this, they needed the Evas -- and this is why they had to keep them around, and even sabotage competing projects that could render the Evas obsolete (such as Jet Alone).
** The adolescent emotion is only necessary because the Soul Barrier is not theirs or the Evas', but that of their mothers (except for Rei, who is technically everyone's mother including her own). They need these children specifically because their mothers volunteered or were 'volunteered' to be the test pilots, and thus when exposed to their children would exhibit particularly effective ability to understand them (read: synchronize) and would also thus exhibit a strong protective AT field to block out all interlopers. SEELE (and for that matter Yui) needed the Evas to become gods, thus the use of gigantic, monstrously expensive, inefficient, preposterous, and otherwise silly use of giant robots, when in fact a positron cyclotron in gun form would work just fine.
*** That bugged me too. If they have the big Angel-slaying death ray, why do they need the giant robots? Couldn't they just mount it on, oh, I dunno, a gigantic tracked vehicle like a great big tank, and use that instead?

* Well, for one thing, I see consider the TV ending as so completely open-ended it could be interpreted as Shinji accepting Instrumentality or as him ''rejecting'' Instrumentality. Also, what part of Shinji being turned into a stick figure and/or entering his own High School AU doesn't qualify as a Mind Screw?

* Here's something else that always just bugged me. How is it that, when Shinji appears in the school, Kensuke spots him instantly and knows who he is and what he does? Leaving aside the fact that Kensuke does not even seem especially bright, well--if YOU saw a [[HumongousMecha giant war robot]] fighting a [[MonsterOfTheWeek kaiju]], would YOU immediately conclude that the robot was being piloted by a barely-pubescent kid? And while we don't really live in a {{shonen}} adventure world, the cast of NGE doesn't either. If I saw a battle in your city between a huge monster and a gigantic futuristic war machine, I would think that the pilot of the machine, if it even had one and it wasn't an autonomous artificial intelligence, would have to be some kind of highly trained soldier, maybe something analagous to a fighter pilot or a Special Forces commando type, maybe even someone 40 years old who'd been training for the last 20 years. Granted, Kensuke isn't 100% certain of this and has to enlist the aid of girls in the class to flirt with Shinji to get confirmation. But why is he convinced of this from the very beginning?
** As was told, Tokyo3 is a company city, whose the almost totality of its inhabitants are employees of NERV in a way or another. Aida family could be not an exception. In the show, it are instances where Kensuke repeats to his friends accurate inside information about NERV that he assures has gleaned from his father and uncles. Being Kensuke the militarist otaku that he is (and the ''only'' person shown who thinks that driving a Giant Mecha is cool besides Asuka), he could be interested in learning who was the one driving the mysterious robot. Probable he could have listened some of the facts from his relatives, and later got a glimpse on the "public" info about Shinji from his father's documents. He has had plenty of time, since Shinji began school about a week after his first fight.
*** My interpretation is that Shinji just sorta showed up the day after the first Angel attack, so people were suspicious and rumours were flying. Kensuke caught wind of it, and thought 'hey, I really wanna deck the guy who piloted that thing, and this shinji guy looks a lot easier to beat up than some 40 year old marine'. So he asked the girls to flirt with Shinji and make sure, and then when Shinji typed 'yes' into the red laptop thing (which was stupid of him), Kensuke had all he needed to justify kicking the crap out of Shinji. so, in other words, it's because he guessed right through sheer luck.
*** Er, are you sure you're not confusing Kensuke with Touji? Kensuke never raises a hand against Shinji, being as, you know, he's an {{Otaku}}. Touji, however, does punch Shinji to the ground. Twice.
** While Kensuke's intelligence is never directly shown, he is generally considered to be a military otaku who follows the defense industries closely. As Kaji says in a later episode, Shinji is rather well known in defense circles, so his identity is not exactly a secret. Plus it is quite clear from the episode in question that Kensuke put it together based on rumours and what he had put together from his father's computer, and it wasn't confirmed until after the girls in the class got Shinji to admit it. There is no evidence that Kensuke asked their help on that either, it is more likely that they, having heard the same rumours, probably just wanted to know on their own. Consider that there is a comment by a backgrounder about how many people are leaving the city, and Kensuke's question about it being odd that Shinji is arriving when so many others are leaving. Also, it's Toji that wants to hit him in response to his sister's injuries, not Kensuke.

* Related question: why the HELL is Shinji put into a junior high school, apparently with almost no security, and no warning against revealing his identity? It's bad enough that he's vulnerable to reprisals from relatives of civilians who get maimed during Angel battles. What if terrorists or doomsday cultists decided to attack the school and take the pilots hostage or murder them? Don't say that this is unknown and unthinkable in Japan, either. Ever heard of Aum Shin Rikyo? If I were running NERV, the pilots would be under house arrest, or protective custody, or whatever clever euphemism you could come up with, for the duration of the war. They'd get personal tutors for their education and they would NOT be allowed out in public, where any bunch of lunatics with a grudge might try to take them hostage or worse. NERV is wagering the lives of the whole world on the Children winning the Angel War, which requires them not to get run over by a truck, or kidnapped by doomsday cultists, or whatever, before it's over. I know, Anno wanted to show social interaction, and to write scenes intentionally reminiscent of coming-of-age teen comedy, which required the Children to go out and interact with people their own age and have lives beyond training and sleep. But it's illogical and an insanely stupid risk for NERV to take.
** An interesting question I've never thought about. To me it seems impossible that doomsday cultists etc would exist in the antiseptic world of Eva. It might be just that: It's a hugely depopulated world where people have more room than they need and nations (as evidenced by the UN becoming a world leader) have learned to bond together and not kill each other so much. And, to also answer why Gendo hasn't interfered with Shinji's life, trained him to be a pilot or at least taken him out of regular school, take a look at how he works as a commander: He sits silent and immobile with shades and gloved hands covering his face, basically only speaking to affirm or deny the decisions of his officers when he has to, and actively taking charge only when there's absolutely nothing else left. It would make sense for him to allow Shinji a normal life not only to avoid being a parent or to prevent the boy going insane but because "If it's not broke don't fix it" seems to be his basic attitude.
*** "To me it seems impossible that doomsday cultists etc would exist in the antiseptic world of Eva."...What show were you watching? The entire plot is two organizations fighting over which type of apocalypse to use, while a race of monsters tries to end the world their way. And considering that it's a company town, almost EVERYONE there is either a doomsday cultist or working for one.
** Short Answer, you can't deconstruct the Giant-Robo genre without school scenes. Long answer, Tokyo III is a "company town" in the truist sense of the word. The parents [[spoiler:well at least the fathers and uncles]] of all the kids work for NERV. They've been vetted and have loads of clearance. Apparently they do blab, Kensuke has heard a new pilot is arriving and puts 2+ 2 together. They ARE being watched, Misato gets a report about Shinji getting slugged, presumably they would've interefered if Touji had a baseball bat. Lastly [[spoiler:The whole class are pilot candidates, Touji's just the only one to be picked. See comment above about "no mothers".]]

*** A moment in the 1.0 movie (not sure if that happened in the series, been ages since I watched it) that showcases the "they are being watched" aspect pretty clearly: when Shinji goes into his first rebellious stroll through Tokyo-3. He walks around all sorts of seedy places and sleeps in a dirty alley covering himself in cardboard, seemingly alone and vulnerable. But when he got tired, all he had to do was to yell that he wanted to go back home, and several NERV agents appear out of thin air.

*** Hmm. Then, too, there is the recurring scene in the opening episode of most every classic giant mecha series, where our hero has to get behind the controls of the HumongousMecha that he's never seen before and save the day. I wonder if Anno was [[LampshadeHanging gently pointing out a common logical inconsistency of the genre]] rather than offering this up with no sense of irony. As for Misato, I still have a problem with it, because she's a high-ranking officer in the organization he runs. He works with her, he has to hear the rumors, and [[spoiler:he's boinking her best friend]]. In any military organization worth a damn, the top brass have psychological profiles on everyone of import. For all that Misato and Shinji ended up getting along pretty well, in a way that made me think of Annie Hall and Alvy Singer (or, if you prefer to think in terms of the classics, the Lady Fujitsubo and Prince Genji), it's not what I would have expected. If Gendo has some convoluted "scenario" which requires him to control everyone's lives down to minor details and manipulate them in order to induce certain psychological states at certain times (and that may be more fanon than canon, I admit), and his plan requires Shinji to be an angst-ridden human dishrag who nonetheless maintains the magical ability to transform into Heero Yuy when danger threatens and kick ass impressively, I would have expected him to put him in the company of someone less likely to try to improve his mood (and if you want to make a double entendre out of that, brother, you go right ahead). In his position I'd have been more inclined either to issue Shinji a small apartment of his own or, if I were convinced he needed adult supervision, I'd have put him with Ritsuko Akagi, who is not nearly as fun-loving or cheerful as the eccentric Misato. Which leads to another question, though: why is Shinji so much better at fighting the Angels than anyone else? Yeah, he has a roaring abundance of rage in his heart, which is normally turned inward and so normally manifests itself as crippling depression and self-hatred. But Asuka and Rei have been training all their lives. Granted, to Asuka it's all one big video game, a way to prove that she's the best, and when she suits up and gets in the entry plug, she's normally concerned with showing off, not winning the fight. And Rei shows very little initiative and will not do much at all without a direct order. Still, going foaming-at-the-mouth berserk and charging screaming at the enemy as if he'd just seen it slap his mama [[spoiler:lulz]] is not, historically, a tactic that has a high success rate, though maybe it works better if you're at the controls of a ten-story giant war robot. He should not, by rights, do nearly so well as he does. I know, he's the hero. But it's not logical.
*** Also, from a viewpoint of Dramatic Necessity, Misato is more desirable (and you can interpret that any way you want, you pervs) because, 1, she's funny and ditzy when she's off duty, which allows her to play the Zany Comic Relief to Shinji's Straight Guy in the sillier off-duty scenes, and 2, there is also the deliberately ambiguous feelings they seem to have for one another, and you can't have a HumongousMecha series with a teen protagonist if it doesn't include a CoolBigSis to flirt with the protagonist in a deliberately non-maternal manner.

*** [[spoiler:As the previous pointer pointed out: it's mostly not him that does the beating down. In fact, he beats a whopping total of 3 angels on his own, counting Leliel. His mom, being the overprotective but inattentive psycho bitch that she is, racks up the rest of the kills. Screw it, Anno has an epic lampshadehang in Episode 2, when Shinji catastrophically fails to pilot Unit 01, gets beaten up, and then blacks out while his mom opens a can of whupass on poor, defenseless Sachiel.]]

** Its illegal to show "indecent material" in Japan without censorship, a law that has been applied even to pornography. The "Barbey doll" technique is one way to get around that, especially for something that is shown to a general audience. Its just censorship-they can't show a crotch with all the stuff it *should* have without the risk of a large fine.

* What exactly does Asuka see in Shinji?
** She is incredibly desperate for affection and attention, and sees herself first and foremost as an ace Eva pilot. Shinji is the only male Eva pilot and thus the only person her age who could see her be the ace pilot she sees herself as. She has a crush on Kaji, the only other person remotely close to her age who is involved with NERV. Aside from that, Asuka and Shinji are alike in some ways (such as sharing mother issues), and they go through a lot together over the course of the series.

** Mainly because he's usually letting his insecurity and abandonment issues get in the way of actually showing up when he's needed. For most people, the bizarre circumstances involved are irrelevant because the bottom line is very simple: stop the Angels, or the world ends. Add this to the fact that he can barely be considered a pilot when EVA-01 does whatever it wants, and Shinji's impact on the goings-on is actually pretty minimal unless something or someone else is forcing his hand. In fact, even his choosing to stay can be interpreted as an unwillingness to take the risk of leaving or disobeying his father; an unmitigated badass doesn't pout in a corner when someone else's life is on the line even if he's confused about girls. All else aside, Shinji is still just a kid who can't keep a reasonable perspective on things in his life ''because'' he's a kid. You should probably watch the rest of the show.

*** They did make several clones of Yui, but as there were no souls left in the Chamber of Gauf, there was no way to make more than one active at a time. Hence the soulless Reis in the tank waiting their chance to use Lilith's.

*** Soul means just what it sounds like: a metaphysical entity that inhabits the physical body and gives it mind. Evangelion is filled to the brim with metaphysics and mystic concepts. Don't tell me you didn't realize?
*** As above, they mean exactly what everyone else does when they say "soul". Yui's soul in Unit 01 is her complete soul, as evidenced by the independent actions she is occasionally able to take (see Episode 1). In fact, you can tell whose soul is in charge of the Eva by what colour its eyes are: White for Shinji, Yellow for Yui, and Red for the dummy system.
*** So is this science fiction or fantasy? I personally view it as the latter, with trappings and props borrowed from the former.
*** It is neither. It is a commentary on human nature and Japanese culture, particularly otaku and hikikomori, couched in a metaphysical allegory within a Science Fiction background.
*** ...true, because neither science fiction nor fantasy has ever offered a commentary on human nature and culture, particularly this or that aspect, couched in a metaphysical allegory within a genre background. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm just going to go watch a ''Franchise/PlanetOfTheApes'' / ''Film/{{District 9}}'' double feature, and then maybe read some Creator/KurtVonnegut right after my favorite episode of ''Franchise/TheTwilightZone''. Unless they're showing ''Film/2001ASpaceOdyssey'', that is...

** But back to the question...there are [[WMG.NeonGenesisEvangelion a few theories]] about Unit 00's soul. Personally, I like the idea that it's Naoko Akagi.
*** Naoko Akagi cannot be an Eva's soul. In every case where a soul was extracted for an Eva, the "donor" had to be inside the robot. Dr. Akagi never went near one, nor did she even work with them; her great project was the Magi-supercomputer and that is the only place where her will survives.
*** Citation Needed. Soul installation always took place offscreen. I prefer the idea that they have a soul vacuum cleaner hidden away somewhere.

*** Perhaps it doesn't have one at all, and that was why [[spoiler:Rei had to be "built to order" in order to be a pilot]]?

** Well,WordOfGod says that the series begins sometime in 2015 and EoE takes place in New year's eve and January 1st 2016. We are talking less than a year here.

** Everyone keeps saying that all Eva characters are mad or at least mentally disturbed. But that's not true. Characters written by Creator/FyodorDostoevsky are really mad and their psychological issues are greatly and belivably described. If you compare Eva to Dostoevsky, Eva characters' problems look like awfully exaggerated teenage {{Wangst}}.

** Other than that being the worst episode... honestly, they probably just overestimated the volcano. An Eva unit can take a nuke to the face ''unshielded''. Off the top of my head, I doubt a volcano's going to be able to match the overpressure wave from a nuke.
*** constant pressure. A nuke is like getting hit with a hammer, while a volcano is like getting hit with a small hammer, every second for however long your in the volcano. A Eva just jumping in for a dip, no problem but for extended operations at extreme depth, ya i can see why it would be needed.
*** This troper assumed that the use of D-Type equipment was due to only having an "approximation" of where the dormant angel was, depth-wise. Perhaps they were merely accommodating for a potentially deeper dive, but such measures weren't necessary for the depth that Asuke reached.

** ^That. Probably also because he is a pilot like her, and have the second best synch score, so in her eyes, he is the closest she has to an equal that doesn't outshine her.
** Don't forget that in the few episodes where they aren't stressed to the gills or having their world's unravel,Shinji is actually a pretty kind, genuine individual who tries his best to treat Asuka well. He makes her meals, cleans up after her and Misato and is pretty overall pleasant to be around. Compared to the other kids at school or that creepy pre-med student who were likely looking to score a piece of ass from the 'hot foreign exchange student' Shinji is a breath of fresh air, because, though Asuka would never say so, Shinji behaves like a perfect gentleman instead of a horny retard. Something she also praises Kaji for.

* jet alone if given an A.T could probably pound some angels. This is why nerve. And Gendo sabotaged it.”If this thing gets finished nerve is out of a job and instumentalitt how we planned it is doomed. Let’s stop this before it gets off the ground”
*** This should be apparent from the first episode, as Sachiel's AT Field is able to protect him from an N2 mine, which is basically a really powerful nuclear bomb. Consider how much less powerful a robot's punch would be; you need an AT field.

*** Plus Seele ''wanted'' the Evas controllable and limited. And Gendo wanted Unit One to overcome that obstacle by devouring an S2 organ from an angel. And the rest of the planet didn't want Asuka to have access to a nuclear reactor.

** Because SEELE was trying to do it anyway with the MP models. This way she gets some control over the process. Don't forget she cannot struggle doe to Shinji calling her.

** From Gainax? The opening was made in-house, it wasn't out-sourced. It sorta happened in the movie though.
** You mean Rebuild? Because what happened in [=EoE=] wasn't quite what I meant.
*** [=EoE=]. In any case, I assume you're asking what the ''point'' of the whole thing was. It's probably just preproduction ideas they animated, with the version in [=EoE=] what they eventually went with. Happens all the time in anime.
*** Yeah, that's what I figured. It's just disappointing, because I was sooo looking forward to that specific part.
*** You're missing the point of anime openings. They aren't like Western animations, which typically use openings as trailers. Anime openings have a series of scenes that summarize what you're getting (sometimes) to a music theme which is (typically) used at least partially to promote a particular artist's new single. Eva's opening animation actually does a really good job giving you hints about the story, especially that bit with Unit-01's wings, but you should never, ever assume you'll see scenes from an opening animation actually in a series proper.

** Also worth noting here, that particular pattern of wings was used for the one of seven great Archangels in Medieval and later artworks. I'm not sure which one, sorry. But I'm pretty sure it was one of the more important ones. Just another layer of the whole religious image thing, in a way.
* The frigate in [[spoiler: the lake of LCL in Terminal Dogma]] irks me: just why is it there? What purpose could it ''possibly'' serve?
** It's a ''warship''. What do you ''think'' it's for? They need ''something'' to patrol the place.
*** I'm ''quite'' sure that it won't do ''anything'' against something that ''manages'' to get ''down'' there. If the ''situation'' got ''that'' desperate the battleship would be ''beyond'' useless by ''that'' point.
*** It's there for the same reason Tokyo-3 has guns to shoot the Angels. ''They don't know it won't be useless''. Also, what about humans? Angels might not be the only things trying to sneak into Terminal Dogma.

** The Japanese military doesn't ever, EVER stop trying to take down the Angels through conventional means, even past the point where it is completely obvious that doing so is pointless and a ridiculous waste of resources. My guess is that all the military hardware is there for showing, a reminder from the army and navy and air force higher-ups to Nerv that, ultimately, they are in charge. It had to hurt their pride to be so useless, and that they had to let a paramilitary organization to take care of the problem.

** Are they really lookalikes? I am aware that, besides the blue hair, in the artwork both Rei and Yui do look similar (of course, that could be chalked up to the limitations of stylized and simplified anime designs, but I digress). Makes sense, because Rei is a clone and all of that. But I think that, since Yui was part project that made the Evas, somebody would have noticed that all of sudden Gendo has a pet pilot that mysteriously looks exactly like his dead wife... or perhaps they do notice and just don't care.

** Having read up to the events of [=EoE=], Shinji's breathing problems seem to be a one shot component to show the incredible stress he was going through.


* Why did Gendo wait until EOE before initiating Instrumentality? Why not as soon as he got Adam, when he had both Lilith and a devoted Rei? Those three seem to be the only necessary components for his version of Instrumentality.

* It needs to be said. WordOfGod says that episode 25 and 26 happen during the time that Shinji is contemplating Instrumentality during End of Evangelion. He ultimately rejects it and him strangling Asuka is the ending. Accept that. Rebuild of Evangelion takes place in a world where everyone finally rejected Instrumentality but for some reason has also rewound the clock by a bit. Now stop asking questions about when things happen.
** Citation needed.
*** Last I checked this wasn't [[StopHavingFunGuys Wikipedia]].
*** You must have checked a long time ago, then. However, leaving ''that'' debate aside, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a citation on a supposed Word of God pronunciation on that matter.
*** The first part is screechingly obvious to me. I don't see why people keep assuming the two endings are mutually exclusive when they fit together with absolutely zero issues. That thing about Rebuild, though, I don't know where the hell that came from.
*** Maybe because it's a remake, like the term 'rebuild' implies? Maybe the [[EpilepticTrees evidence to the contrary]] is purely circumstantial.
*** Or because Kaworu says "this time, I'll make you happy" and other sentences saying that it's not the first time Shinji went through that story.
** How on Earth does the character development that Shinji goes through during the stream of consciousness in 25 and 26 fit in with him trying to kill Asuka?
*** Did you think that maybe the "self-affirmation" ending of 26 was a little too easy, maybe corny even? Probably so did Shinji. It was like his first AA meeting, and it's common enough for someone to go on a bender right after one of those.
*** When everyone is Tanged, there is no other. There is only the self. When Shinji is strangling Asuka, besides the obvious parallel to the show's theme of people hurting each other by trying to get closer, it also shows an acknowledgement of something besides himself. It's that act that shows Shinji as independent of Instrumentality.

** This troper was under the impression that the first 5 were the Instrumentality committee while the monoliths were SEELE. The two groups are different but with a bit of membership overlap.
*** Neither, it had to do with the budget of the series. They're kept as monoliths in the Rebuild series because it's iconic.
** Nobody knows what the internal politics of Seele are like, if the old men we first see Gendo talking to are the same ones he'd talked to a week before (or if they were accurate representations ever). There are any number of reasons why they might have a discussion about this that ends with "Fuck it, we're doing monoliths now".
** Personally, I've always thought of it as being symbolic of Seele's growing ego regarding their attempts to play God. If you consider how strongly the franchise was influence by 2001: A Space Odyssey, what I'm trying to say may become clearer. In 2001, the monolith is like the hand of a deity reaching out to touch it's creation, us. As SEELE attains more power over the devices set in motion by FAR, they have stopping seeing themselves as the creation grasping at divinity, having come to view themselves as gods. They reject their human forms, because they intend to ascend beyond humanity via instrumentality. Or it could be, you know, that budget thing.
** Were the hologram people actually SELEE? I always thought that was just some sort of NERV Oversight Committee that supervises Gendo, and SELEE (the monoliths) was an entirely different group.

* Okay, I know that love can make one stupid and crazy, but how did Gendo foresee Yui doing anything but violently rejecting him after he sleeps with both Dr.s Akagi, abandons their (meaning HER) son, and then does all sorts of things that make him miserable? If Yui resurrected I'm sure she will reject Gendo in the most brutal lecture ever. And then Gendo kills himself.
** For all we know, they have an open marriage and sleeping with Ritsuko wasn't a problem. I have NO IDEA what he was thinking with Shinji, though, other than the fact that he was so terrified of him he wasn't thinking rationally.
*** I hate to sound dumb, but Shinji doesn't seem all that scary. Most of the time, anyway. And the rejection began as soon as Yui died, it seems, a decade before Shinji began doing the only thing that he ever did that could under any circumstances seem intimidating: piloting Unit-01.
*** Err... no, not scared as in "he will do something to injure me." More of a psychological fear. In End of Eva, Gendo says "I can finally see you again, Yui... With me, I will just keep hurting Shinji. So, it's better to do nothing." and Yui replies "You're actually afraid of Shinji, aren't you..."
*** Regarding the open marriage, for all intents and purposes, YUI IS DEAD (AndIMustScream be damned)! He thought that (assuming the Yui is the Chessmaster and got absorbed intentionally) that Yui got trapped inside of EVA-01 and he was rescuing her. Regarding his relationship with Shinji, they're both the same: They are hurt because they are lonely, but don't get close too each other in fear of being hurt even more. Dance of the Hedgehogs if you will.
*** I always had the impression that Gendo mistreated Shinji ON PURPOSE, planning to use him as a key in his plans to achieve instrumentality. The fact that he parted with son and behaved like an asshole around him immediately after Yui's death only reinforces that impression, that he worked to harden Shinji's psychological barriers in order to make him an Eva pilot.
*** ^ This seems the most likely, as Gendo's treatment of Shinji can be considered gaslighting - the emotional withdrawal and abandonment coupled the constant verbal abuse with the exception of one compliment are all gaslighting tactics that abusers will use to keep their victims dependent on them, keeping them from leaving. What scares me is not only that it works on Shinji, but on the audience - many view Gendo as having been redeemed in the end.
** Basically he wasn't terrified of Shenji personally, but simply terrified of being a parent, or more specifically, terrified of screwing up, so he just didn't even try and ignored Shenji till he needed him.

** The guy who was in charge of Jet Alone made two good points for the robot. First, the idiocy of depending on things that can only fight for five minutes once unplugged. And second, the even greater idiocy of putting such powerful war machines in the hands of potentially psychotic kids. And, about Jet Alone's clunkiness, remember that it was its first real test. How much time did it take to Nerv to perfect their Eva's? How many tests fraught with danger before they could solve all the quirks and bugs?

** [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_%28drink%29 It's a kick in a glass]] Apparently, it's not sold in your area.
** Technically called LCL. They don't explicitly name it as such in the movie.
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_glossary#LCL
*** For an actual explanation combining all three of these, in the series it's actually called LCL. It's supposed to be like the essence of all human life. However, it strongly resembles the drink Tang, which starts out as a Kool-Aid like powder but when mixed with water is an orange liquid.

** Actually, they do identify it as LCL in the show. Hence the reason I was confused when everybody called it Tang.
** It's an orange drink. We make fun of the scene where people dissolve into LCL by saying that they "get hugged and turn into Tang".
** [[http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Tang Tang]].

* Why didn't we get to see a glimpse into Pen-Pen's mind in the finale? He was the main catalyst of the show.

*** Yui: So you were running away. You rejected the others so that you would never be hurt. You were terrified by the invisible bonds that people form. You were afraid, and so you closed your heart. This is my retribution.
*** Gendo: Forgive me, Shinji.

** A little over half of them are in the clip show episode that summerizes the Angel battles as they're a report for SEELE or something. The remaining names came from additional materials (an obvious Adam and Lillith are referred to by name a bunch. I think Kaworu might have been referred to by his angel name on one occasion too).

* For a show that prides itself on being realistic, this show had some pretty big gaps in logic: 1. [[PunctuatedForEmphasis SQUARE.]] [[YouFailBiologyForever CUBE.]] [[SquareCubeLaw LAW.]] 2. So the BigBad council wants everyone turned into tang, and the only way they can do that is by getting an angel to fuse with Lilith, but the aliens really want Adam. Why not make an Adam clone with Lilith's soul and then tie it to a skyscraper like a scarecrow? 3. AT field. Really. A field that holds human beings together is called an "absolute terror field". Why not "Organic Cohesion Field"? Oh, does that not sound pretentious enough? And if human beings need this to hold them together, what the hell holds inanimate objects together? Anno, you fail Physics, Biology, and Logic forever!