History Headscratchers / MassEffect3Ending

** I always wondered why there wasn't an option to Kirk the Catalyst to death, with it's death blowing up all of the Reapers simultaneously. Quick, someone get Shatner to do an ME3 voiceover where he points out the logic flaws in the Catalyst's reasoning! More seriously, the Catalyst could have solved the rebelling AI problem by...killing the Ais. It could have been some sort of Deus Ex Machina, swooping in to save the beleaguered races under attack by the evil synthetics at the last minute. Or it could have run what became the Reapers as a sort of police force, making "no synthetics" a law enforced by the might of nigh-untoppable killing machines. It could also be used to save weaker species from other, stronger and more genocidal species. But nooooope... its solution is just "KILL 'EM ALL!" I still Kirk could have noticed this, pointed out the inherent logical flaw in killing species to stop them from being killed (and also point out that every race that has existed would rather be honestly dead than be turned into a Reaper) and then the AI would start smoking and saying things like "It does not compute!" Or maybe I just want to hear Spock's like again "Logic is a pretty flower....that smells baaaad."

* Extended Cut adds a scene of the Normandy crew having a sort of impromptu memorial for Shepard, with their LI putting their nameplate on the memorial wall above Anderson's. However, the Normandy is currently stranded on some distant world, potentially with the mass relays destroyed (or at least damaged) and at least in the Destroy ending, communications between systems are down. So how did they know Anderson died in the first place? Now, consider the outcome where Shepard lives: choosing Destroy with a high enough EMS score. In this case, Shepard's LI chooses to hold onto the nameplate, implying they believe Shepard isn't really dead. They were about to, though, which means crew isn't really sure either way. Let's say they do manage to communicate with the Alliance, who passes along the information that Anderson didn't make it--that means Anderson's body must have been recovered by the Alliance or some ally force. In that case, shouldn't they also have recovered Shepard, who wasn't too far away, and thus communicated that Shepard is still alive as well?

[[folder:Shepard lives; Normandy crew]]

* In the one outcome where it is possible for Shepard to live (choosing Destroy with a high enough EMS), with Extended Cut, this is partially indicated through the 'memorial' scene that the Normandy crew has: Shepard's LI, who would normally put their nameplate on the memorial wall above Anderson's, instead chooses to hold onto the nameplate, implying they believe Shepard isn't really dead. (They were about to, though, which means they aren't really sure either way.) Here's the issue: the Normandy is stranded on some distant world, with the mass relays destroyed, and presumably, communications are down. So...how did they even know that Anderson is dead in the first place? Let's say they do manage to communicate with the Alliance, who passes along the information that Anderson didn't make it. That means Anderson's body must have been recovered. In that case, shouldn't they also have recovered Shepard, and thus communicated that Shepard is still alive as well?

** In addition to being a PerfectSolutionFallacy, that's not consistent with everything else it does. The Reapers may not be a flawless solution, but they're by far more efficient than everything else the Catalyst has tried aside from synthesis. And synthesis, apparently, wouldn't have worked unless organics were "ready" for it. However, it never explains what the criteria for readiness are, and remember that the entire point of the cycle was so that no civilization could grow inherently more powerful or advanced than the ones before them. And despite the Catalyst saying that this cycle, for some inexplicable reason, is "ready" for synthesis, it wasn't even going to try the solution until we forced it to with the Crucible.

** Not exactly. The Reapers were actively ''trying'' to stop the Crucible from being fired and they will blow it up if you delay in using it. If the Catalyst believes that Synthesis is an all-around better solution, there is no reason to do this. There was also no reason for the Catalyst to admit that they had tried to "eradicate" the concept of the Crucible many, many cycles ago. Shepard being badass enough to create and fire the Crucible has nothing to do with explaining why ''galactic civilization'' is "ready" and everything to do with Shepard being a badass. The Catalyst likewise never says anything about this being a "test". That's just FanWank.
** The Leviathan DLC all but outright says that the Catalyst is looking for ''something'' in its cycles, and that it won't stop the cycle until it finds it. Considering that the Catalyst allows Shepard three options to stop the cycle when Shepard reaches it, it is pretty clear that Shepard managed to fulfill some sort of criteria to be allowed to talk to it. If the Catalyst just wanted to stop Shepard, all it had to do was just not turn the elevator on in the first place. Most likely, destroying - or attempting to destroy - the Crucible is just a standard part of the cycle. it fits with the behavior pattern of the Catalyst.

** You aren't flipping a switch or pulling a trigger; the destruction ending is shooting a pipe and blowing something up. You are causing a catastrophic failure in the catalyst/cruicible; what you're doing is not an intended design mechanism. The fact that it is as targeted as it is(synthetics) is nothing short of a miracle.
** The Extended Cut makes it more clear: the Catalyst ''cannot'' specifically target the Reapers and only the Reapers. Not "will not", "''can'' not". The Catalyst also notes that there will indeed be collateral damage from the pulse: VI's and non-sentient computer equipment will be affected as well, at least to some extent. The Catalyst does reassure Shepard that although the damage will be widespread, organic civilization is at a point now where they can rebuild and recover from that relatively easily.

** Leviathan really isn't necessary. It gives us a bit more detail on the big picture but we already had that picture from the endings. It was left out for the same reason the Extended Cut had to be made, because they underestimated how much explanation we needed to be satisfied with the story. What do we even learn that's new? We already knew the Reapers were created to preserve organic life from synthetics, we already knew they were controlled by the Catalyst and we already knew things had gone differently than the original creators intended. Leviathan is nothing more than flavoring, pleasant but unnecessary.

** Well it was in no way vital, as stated above, we don't really learn anything new from the Leviathan DLC other than giant organic squids made the AI and Reapers are modeled off them.

* If you think about it, the Reapers are taking a huge gamble between cycles. There is always the possibility of a civilization (or a ''combination'' of them) hyper-evolving to become powerful enough to actually destroy the Reapers in one fell swoop once they return to the galaxy, even without the use of the Crucible. If that happened, the Reapers would be pretty much screwed over. And of course, there's always the possibility of an invasion from ''another'' galaxy, which could completely take the Reapers by surprise as well. Hey, there are enough other galaxies to go around for ''that'' scenario.

* So in the Extended Cut by the space elevator, we discover that your squad mates survive by [[spoiler: you calling in the Normandy to pick them up.]] Well that's all well and good until you realize that Harbinger is just hovering there doing nothing. So why doesn't he take advantage of [[spoiler: your ship, you and your crew, the very things that have been messing up the Reapers plans for years are just sitting there]] and attack it? [[spoiler: The Normandy is there for more than enough time to blow it up, killing you and everyone else]] and guaranteeing Reaper victory. There is little logic in him doing nothing in this situation.
** Looking closely reveals [[spoiler: Harbinger's cannons are not visible. It was probably prioritizing all the people making a mad dash to the conduit over the ship with both a state-of-the-art stealth drive and a Reaper IFF that wasn't actually attempting to make it to the conduit.]]

** DeathSeeker tendencies aside : just a few minutes before this Shepard was [[spoiler: at least grazed by one of Harbinger's main cannons, shot by a Marauder, bounced around some steel walls upon landing in the Citadel, and had fallen unconcious from blood loss and various traumas.]] Also, do you remember just how difficult it was to take those last shots even before all that happened to the Commander? At that moment, Shepard is pretty much physically incapable of making a pistol shot at anything but point blank range.

** How exactly does the ''Crucible'' destroy all synthetic life? It makes sense that EDI would be affected seeing as she was partially built using Reaper tech and could conceivably be susceptible. And then there's the Catalyst's remark about Shepard being partly synthetic. No s/he's not. Unless ''all'' advanced technology is affected; in which case, all of galactic civilization would have gone boom.

** Well we do know from the Catalyst that Shepard is "partly synthetic", which presumably means whatever the heck Cerberus did to bring Shepard back to life. For how the Crucible can tell the difference between machines and organic life and a synthetic life form... well space magic is unfortunately the only explanation since from what we saw the red wave of energy could somehow ''vaporize'' Husks while leaving humans and their equipment completely unharmed.
** In the synthesis ending as the light pillar is dissolving Shepard you can see that his skeleton and most of his musculature are synthetic. Given how damage seems to make him glow like a damaged EDI, it's likely that he's a brain and thorax wrapped in biometal wrapped in syntho dermis. This would also create cool parallels with the Reaper larva and
** The extent to which the Crucible only destroys AI life vs destroying all technology is a function of your EMS number. The lower it is, the more damage the Crucible takes and the more indiscriminate it becomes. That also applies to Shepard's onboard cybernetics - a damaged Crucible fries all of them, killing Shepard, while a relatively undamaged Crucible only fries a few, allowing Shepard to survive. So presumably, while EDI is gone, Glyph is still functional with high enough EMS. The geth are goners because they used Reaper code to upgrade from VI to AI, so it remains to be seen if they just devolved back to being pre-Morning War VI programs with high enough EMS.

** BioWare didn't help themselves by depicting the relay network's destruction as a series of massive explosions all over the galaxy map.

*** No, the Catalyst is not wrong. You have to look at the time scales involved. And read about the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_convergence#Paperclip_maximizer paperclip maximizer]]. Maybe the Geth are completely benign. Maybe neither the Geth nor EDI will pose any threat. But there are billions of star systems, and during millions of years it is very probable that SOMEONE, somewhere, by mistake, will create an AI which will just turn the whole universe into {{grey goo}}. Besides this, the creator of the Catalyst and of the Reapers in the first place was an AI acting as a {{literal genie}}. The Leviathan civilization wanted organic life to not die out, and the most optimal solution for this problem was to destroy every organic life which became too intelligent, leaving the undeveloped species to evolve. Maybe not moral by our standards, but neither the Leviathans nor the AI they created were humans.

** In the synthesis ending as the light pillar is dissolving Shepard you can see that his skeleton and most of his musculature are synthetic. Given how damage seems to make him glow like a damaged EDI, it's likely that he's a brain and thorax wrapped in biometal wrapped in syntho dermis. This would also create cool parallels with the Reaper larva and Saren.

* Where did this thing come from? Mass Effect is known for having a game changing plot twist about halfway through the game, but this guy shows up right at the end, and we're just expected to accept it. When they revealed the Reapers in ME 1, we could go along with that because these guys were Robot Space Old Ones right out of Lovecraft, and when you replayed the game it actually subtly built up to that unveiling in a way you only notice the second time around. In ME 2 the Collectors being genetically modified Protheans also made since because it was a possibly RedHerring for what galactic civilizations fate at the hands of the Reapers might be, and it solved the problem of the Collectors being this new race that was never spoken of before; because they ''were'' spoken of before, we just didn't know they and the Protheans weren't one in the same. The Catalyst? Literally comes out of no where with no build up or explanation. Some might argue that's the point of a plot twist, but to paraphrase a [[WebVideo/TheNostalgiaCritic certain internet reviewer]]: "Yeah but that's like saying [[TheSecretOfNIMH Mrs. Brisby ]] was broccoli the whole time. Yeah you didn't see it coming, that doesn't mean it makes sense."

*** Actually the comm buoys that where destroyed/lost only happened in Batarian/Human space, no evidence has been shown to say that the galaxy wouldn't be able to communicate, aside from the Batarians, which, lets face it, the only ones left are outside Batarian space anyway, because by all logic, they should all be dead.
**** At the time, only Earth and Batarian space had been attacked. You think they wouldn't destroy the comm buoys in Asari space once they enter Asari space? And by the end, the Reapers are in every system with a mass relay. If they took pot-shots at Bekenstein, surely they would take pot shots at the comm buoys.
**** Without the Mass Relays, we've gone from 20th century mass transport with relays able to take you anywhere in the galaxy within a couple of days, most of which is spending waiting your turn at the relay, to 19th century slow communication, ships taking weeks to cross the Atlantic. Galactic civilisation will no doubt need to adjust, but it can recover from this - not to mention that relays can be rebuilt!
**** Once again with the [[WritersHaveNoSenseOfScale vastly underestimating the scales involved]]. The Normandy can't even cross a cluster without refueling, and these are just within tens of light-years of mass relays. The galaxy is 100,000 lightyears across, and the races are spread out in little clusters across the entirety of that 39,000,000,000,000 cubic lightyears. Unless Bioware says that standard FTL can travel at hundreds of thousands of times the speed of light, "weeks" won't cover it. Say my Asari war assets want to get home. From the positions on the galaxy map of Thessia compared to Earth, and given the size of the galaxy, I'd estimate at least 25,000 lightyears. To do that in 3 weeks, you would have to travel at a staggering 470,000,000,000,000 km/h, or 435,000 times the speed of light. For comparison, at those speeds I could hop out to Alpha Centauri in 5 minutes (not counting acceleration and deceleration, but the Normandy appears to hit max speed pretty quickly in its intra-cluster FTL jaunts), or Mars in 1-3 milliseconds (depending on which side of the sun it's on relative to Earth).
**** Further, it took the reapers '''6 months''' at FTL to get from the Bahak system (Alpha Relay) to Earth by going to the nearest relay and then using it to get travel quickly to Earth. Even considering that they probably stopped off to harvest the Batarians, most of that time still had to have been transit otherwise someone would have wondered, "Why have the Batarians been out of contact for a month?" If the Reapers, far more advanced in FTL than the citadel races, took even 4 months just to get from one relay to the next closest, the Citadel races have no hope of seeing home again before their fuel and supplies run out.
**** One more point: The Codex for the Mass Relays notes that "[Mass Relays allow] instantaneous transit between locations separated by years or even centuries of travel using conventional FTL drives." This should be sufficient in-universe lore to show that "we've gone from 20th century mass transport" to "amoebas attempting to swim against the current from Cuba to Africa."

*** Yes, the moment when the fate of the galaxy is being decided is clearly not the right time to make sure that all the options have been considered so the right choice can be made.
**** At this point in time though, the "right choice" is about which way is the best way to beat the Reapers there and then. the wider philosophical reasonings as to why synthetic life forms will always turn on their organic masters will not affect this decision

*** Not really. Shepard only takes the time to stop and argue when s/he needs information from the person s/he is arguing with, or if s/he needs to stall for time, or if there's no harm in stopping briefly to try to convince someone to change their opinions. Both his/her arguments with Saren and Harbinger were due to waiting for the Normandy to pick him/her up, while the argument with Saren at the end of the first game was to cut short a confrontation. The Catalyst is different. Arguing with it won't get anywhere, especially when thousands of people are dying every second to give Shepard this chance. Victory is right there in front of Shepard.
**** Really? There's no reason to try to talk around the guiding intellect behind the Reapers, to attempt to convince him to call them off, '''especially''' when he's so obviously wrong it hurts?
**** In case you did not notice: Shepard is '''bleeding to death''': s/he managed to survive a direct hit from Harbinger, to succesfully reject the indoctrination process during the showdown with the illusive man, all of which is very impressive, but that's it: Shep's plot armor is gone and s/he's living their last minutes. In fact, it's quite clear that Shepard was about to lose consciousness for good after the last dialogue with Anderson: sure, an healthy Shep may have started a debate with the catalyst, maybe even reached a compromise, something like "leave now, come back next cycle and see if we managed to destroy ourselves during your 50.000 years interegnum''. The problem is, Shepard is at this point '''dying''' and in no state to do anything but to choose one of the catalyst solutions and limp toward it.
*** Its a millions-years old AI on an implacable, unstoppable fleet of super warships. It is also ''offering you a solution'' to the entire mess, no strings attached. Shepard doesn't need to argue with it, as s/he's ''already won'', Shepard just needs to choose ''how'' to win.
**** You call that "winning"? Seemed like a lose/lose/[[spoiler: fucking lose]] scenario to me. You wanna talk about picking ''how'' to win? How about pointing to the Geth and Qurians co-existing, something I worked my ass off and sacrificed a friend to make possible, and saying to that fucking Catalyst "you're wrong, fuck you."
**** He ''is'' wrong! He comes just short of outright admitting he's wrong! That's why he's standing to the side instead of fighting you!. There is no other way ''to'' win, because the Reapers won't stop until you activate the Crucible! Welcome to war, the winner is the side is less devastated!
**** I'd wager a few Shepards would rather fight this forced-attempt-to-appeal-to-sympathy character avatar one-on-one (ala Gurren Lagann) or engage it in a [[http://social.bioware.com/poll.php?user=1183972&poll_id=29101 battle of wills]] than being constrained to three choices that change the colour of the ending cutscene. At least it'd be a path they choose for themselves, not handed to them by this "Catalyst" as an illusion of choice (besides, it'd feel oh so satisfying proving it wrong by ''actually'' managing to beat the Reapers conventionally anyway despite all odds). We already have a grim depiction of the brutalities of conflict in the form of VideoGame/DragonAgeII, MW and DE:HR, do we really need to have it shoved down our throats here too?
**** To add to the above post about defeating the Reapers conventionally, it was always my understanding that the main reason the Reapers always curbstomped the galaxy in every cycle was because they divided and conquered, by way of shutting down the relay network and picking of system by system, since the races wouldn't be able to call for reinforcements, and would have few ships and or military personnel in each single system/cluster. The Reapers may be many, but the "lesser" races are more. I doubt the Protheans had anything akin to the Treaty of Farixen. It is mentioned several times during the trilogy that a united galaxy would be a serious issue for the Reapers. Also, considering the fact that the minimum war assets needed to challenge the Reapers is pretty low, I think it's a pretty cheap cop-out that you can't barely defeat them if you manage to do everything right. At least the ones at Earth.
**** It was an all-way lose to me, too. FridgeLogic just tells me that if the Relays exploded then a lot of homeworlds just got wiped out. Including Earth. Normandy, being the fastest non-Reaper ship, was probably the only ship able to escape the blast relatively intact, thus giving the "best" ending of synthesis where Joker and EDI can be together. Yay. Never mind all those other people, they're all dead, go meet Garrus at the bar. Of course, then there's the Kill The Reapers Ultimate version where Shepard apparently somehow survives, so maybe Earth didn't get wiped out (but then why is Normandy escaping random blast?). I don't know, none of it made a lot of sense to me. It felt almost like Catalyst had just concluded an utterly insane ThePlan in which Shepard always loses. The best Shepard could do was make sure some people survived, but ultimately every solution would end with the complete collapse of galactic society. Heck, I shot the conduit out just because I felt after all the crap the Reapers have pulled in their EvilPlan it was the only sensible thing to do (Like the illusion that the Reapers can be controlled to create infighting and the subtlety of indoctrination, Mass Relays to force technology along a certain line, etc. Like everything they give you that you think might help you win against them is just another part of their plan to destroy you). Even this felt like a loss because of the Geth and, presumably, EDI (not to mention sweeping parts of the galaxy potentially).
**** To me, what it boils down to is that you can argue with a gun all you want, but even assuming the gun can argue back, there's a limit to what it can do; fire. Any argument Shepard can throw at the catalyst is countered by "Look. These are the options. It isn't a philosophical debate, this is what is physically possible for the crucible to do. Pick one and run with it." It's better explained in the original script which included more exposition, where the Catalyst explains that the crucible altered it's function to the point that it no longer has direct control over the reapers.
**** Satisfying though it may be to beat the Reapers conventionally, if that were actually a possibility, the Crucible wouldn't have been necessary in the first place. More often than not, the odds being stacked against you doesn't mean "heroic victory at the last moment," it means "You lose hard because it's unwinnable". As I saw it, the Catalyst was offering a gun, and as others have mentioned, Shepard was awfully busy dying at the moment to really be in a good place to argue about whether or not it's the best solution they can put together. Shepard had two options: 1) fire the gun, destroy/control/synthesize the Reapers, and let galactic civilization pull itself back together from the ruins if it's capable of, or not if it's not, or 2) do not fire the gun, finish dying pointlessly right there on the Catalyst's nice, clean floor, and let everyone be wiped out by the Reapers.
**** Also, he's talking about the inevitability of the the war happening, the war started 300 years ago. Admittedly, he is wrong about the result. (depending on your choices) There's also the part where the geth refused to wipeout the quarians long ago.

** Because the Reapers are an independent mechanism of the Catalyst. The catalyst set the cycle in motion and the Reapers carry it out, but it is willing to allow organics the chance to at least fight back, judging by its behavior. The fact that Shepard got that far and that it was perfectly willing to help Shepard make the decision at to what to do indicates as much
*** But it doesn't really answer the question of why the Catalyst wouldn't install some measure to start the cycle himself. His whole main agenda is to keep the cycle going, yet to start it requires a convoluted system with components that can relatively easily be discovered and sabotaged.

*** Because Protheans, that's why. The Protheans sabotaged the signal preventing the Keepers from activating the Citadel Relay. This was the last act of their dying race, after the Reapers had left the system. Now bear in mind the timeline here: for this to have been their final act, it would have to have come after their attempt at building the Crucible. Now, the Prothean VI on Thessia seemed to know an awful lot about the Catalyst, enough to explicitly state that the Protheans were well aware of how important the Citadel was to the Reapers. When the last Protheans made their kamikaze jump through the Conduit, they would have done so armed with the knowledge that the calls are coming from inside the house, so to speak, and would have engineered their solution to the extinction cycle accordingly.
*** In the Extended Cut, the Catalyst does say the Reapers have tried to destroy the plans for the Crucible whenever it's popped up, but that organic life is more clever than they thought.
**** More clever than The Reapers? The Catalyst said that The Crucible is "a little more than a power source" Basically, a Duracell in SPACE. Reapers got an eternity to make one and yet, when The Catalyst says that Synthesis is the ideal solution to his problem, he opts with destroying it. Why? it will solve the problem he wants on the spot. Oh, and by the way, The Catalyst BUILT the Reapers and made them part of him, thus the line "I embody the collective intelligence of all Reapers". So if he can do that then why not something as simple as, you know, repairing the master console to shut down the Relay Network or readjust the Keepers back?
**** It's implied that its because he wants someone to come along that can prove they can stop the Reapers and the cycle. Remember that if the Catalyst didn't ''want'' Shepard there to stop the cycle, it could have just not turned the elevator on.
*** Implication becomes outright statement in the Leviathan DLC. Leviathan itself states that the intelligence controlling the Reapers is conducting the cycle because it is searching for something among the cycles of genocide. Apparently, that "something" is a galaxy united enough to fight the Reapers and build the Crucible. I mean, if the Catalyst didn't ''want'' Shepard to bring the Crucible into the Citadel and fire it, it wouldn't have allowed the arms to open or let Shepard into its core.

*** That doesn't mean anything. It's ArtMajorBiology, which the rest of the trilogy avoids.
*** Check Joker's appearance. Notice any similarities to a certain Cerberus leader? Odds are, he meant merging organic life with Reaper bio-metal, which is an explicit ability of the Reapers. It's how they make more Reapers, after all.
*** He looks normal in my playthrough while running from the green if that's what you mean. It cut to black when the door opens so no idea if that's accurate.
*** Watched on youtube(got the destruction ending in my playthrough) and he looks normal after the door opens except his eyes are faintly glowing green and he has a geth-like code shimmering over his body like Shepard in project overlord.
*** Probably something like nanomachines were used to make the change. When most if not all species in the galaxy that are or were part of the community likely have omni tools, it's not hard to figure out the how. Medigel/Omnigel would probably be best to facilitate the change, not that that makes the whole thing better of course, just makes a little more sense. Considering that there's a lot of life without such things, even that sense is lost.

*** There's no evidence that it wouldn't either, indeed given the Catalyst's motivations it would be surprising if it didn't cause the destruction of all the systems with a mass relay in it. The most of galactic civilization lives in the same system of an active relay, blowing up the relays at once will effectively do the same thing as the reapers, except not quite as thorough, organic life will still live on in systems without relays, but it would take a very long time for it to recover. As you can see it would be a very effective last ditch plan for the catalyst.
**** The Catalyst's motivations is to ''preserve'' organic life before their creations destroy them. Its solution was twisted, sure, but it "preserved" organics "in reaper form". Now, if you watch a recording of the endings, you will see that the glow in the gyroscope completely dissipates when it shoots an energy pulse at the next mass relay. In the red and green endings, the relay then lets out the energy pulse and a small explosion. In the blue ending, it doesn't even explode, just breaks up. When you watch Arrival, you will notice that the glow in the gyroscopes becomes bigger and then explodes in a positively massive explosion that completely whites out the screen. The little bursts you see in the galaxy map are '''only the energy bursts''', not the explosions.
*** BioWare didn't help themselves by depicting the relay network's destruction as a series of massive explosions all over the galaxy map.
**** This troper figured they were depicting the radiation being dispersed to synthesize/control reapers/destroy synthetics, and not supernovas.
**** It's also bothering that, even if destroying the relays doesn't cause supernovas, Shepard doesn't know that. He knows exactly, what the hologram tells him and it doesn't say anything that may suggest, that the relays will blow in different manner this time. When the kid tells him that firing the crucible will destroy the relays, instead of saying: "What!? Won't that cause an armageddon?", he / she goes like: "Uh, ok, nevermind.". It is especially jarring after reading the codex - it says that the council races considered the destruction of relays in order to stop the reapers, but they concluded that there would be too many casualties and the cost is too high.

*** There were no "massive explosions" around the galaxy. Those are quite obviously the spread of the energy to do whatever Shepard decides to do. The only destruction that happens in the process is the collapse of the Mass Relays. And what is Joker trying to outrun? Again obvious: the collapse of the Relay Network. The Normandy is inside the negative mass tunnel when it begins to collapse, and it is this that Joker is trying to avoid.
*** In the "destroy" ending we do actually see a massive blast wave coming from the relay as it collapses after firing.

** You can see human Marines fighting on the surface and surviving when the blast sweeps over them. [[CaptainObvious Mreach you own conclusion.]]

*** You're half right, from the Codex: "...[Mass Relays] can create corridors of virtually mass-free space allowing instantaneous transit...". You are correct in that transit ought to be instant but wrong in that there are "mass relay corridors". The blast wave appears to propagate around in a cylinder around the Normandy, however, as you can see a circle of black space behind the corridor. Perhaps this is yet another case of the Codex being an UnreliableNarrator, or maybe it's a "who knows what affect the crucible/energy wave has on the mass relays".
**** Actually, transit isn't instantaneous. There's a couple scenes in the games where it takes time to go through a relay jump. It seems more like near-instantaneous transit, meaning it only takes a couple minutes rather than a couple centuries.
**** More-over, the scene takes place directly after the blast from the crucible is directed at the mass relay, after the initial explosion has dissipated. Assuming they wanted to give the impression that Normandy wasn't in a relay jump, they did a poor job of it simply through the timing of that shot. Also, why the hell was Joker looking over his shoulder like there was a damn rear-view window?
***** Because all the piloting skills in the world don't tell you what to do when you're being chased by a collapsing wormhole. He's running for his life - I'd look over my shoulder in a ship too, because there was nowhere in my training manual that told me what to do in case the Mass Relays begin collapsing en masse while I'm in mid-transit.

*** Shepard was still in communication with Hackett in the Citadel: Hackett may have heard the final conversation with the catalyst and realizing that the war is over but the Mass Relays are minutes away to be blown up, ordered the Normandy to lead the combined fleets away from Earth in order to diminish the number of troops stranded on a ruined world where feeding them would be problematic.
**** The Extended Cut includes a brief scene of Hackett ordering all ships to leave as the Crucible powers up.

*** The problem is that it simply isn't that obvious, hence all the questions about it. You could ask 10 different players and get 10 different opinions on what happened.
*** Hell, even if it ''was'' more obvious...why the hell is Joker taking the Normandy through a relay? As I said above, he had no way of knowing what it would do to EDI, and even if he did, would he ''really'' run away without knowing whether or not Shepard was okay? Hell, would EDI ''let'' him? Again: no friggin' sense.
**** The Extended Cut now includes a scene of Hackett ordering all ships to leave the area as the Crucible powers up.
* Bioware have a track record of being great writers making great games. With that said it boggles the mind that the writing or gameplay in the ending wouldn't make fans happy. The theory of it all being a ploy to sell DLC makes this even worse, as if this is a deliberate move then a lot of fans will feel betrayed.

*** Not quite. It's stated that all synthetic beings will become part-organic as part of the Synthesis ending. But if all organics and synthetics become the same universally compatible "race", does that mean that EDI suddenly grows reproductive organs that were not part of her original design? If not, then doesn't it undermine the concept of Synthesis as a method of eliminating discrimination between synthetics and organics?
**** The Extended Cut elaborates a little more. The Catalyst says that synthetics will gain an understanding of organics, because of organics becoming partially synthetic. Though EDI's epilogue narration does suggest that she's now a living being. So who knows.

*** GodwinsLaw aside, the degree of self-determination the Reapers have is never made clear, so it is entirely possible that the Reapers would stop thanks to Synthesis, especially considering the galactic nature of the ending. Synthesis likely includes a general "Okay, stop it guys, we're done" order from the Catalyst. As for the galaxy "accepting" the Reapers' help in rebuilding, I don't think that the galaxy would either be willing or even able to object. When the titanic god-machines suddenly decide to stop shooting and start rebuilding, the various species across the galaxy are in no shape to stop them, and they're not so terminally retarded as to start shooting at them while they rebuild.
*** This comes up a lot. "Why would galactic civilization accept the help of the Reapers?" The answer remains the same: because they don't have a lot of other options. The galaxy was losing its war hard. This is repeatedly stated. Like all cycles before, galactic civilization was being slowly and methodically exterminated. The Reapers are an enemy that could not be defeated by military strength. With the Crucible fired and, under Control or Synthesis, the Reapers having stopped their genocide and begun helping to rebuild, the galaxy accepts the Reapers' help because what else are they going to do? Yes, there will be plenty of hostile feelings towards the Reapers, but the Reapers still hold all the power they did before, enough power to exterminate all life in the galaxy if they decide to. If they want to help, what other choice is there than to let them?
* So named to avoid accidental spoilers, since this folder should be titled "The Catalyst," mainly because this thing is one huge head scratcher by itself. We won't go into the AssPull vibe this entire ending gives off since that's subjective, so lets just simplify this to its most basic elements.
** First, where did this thing come from? Mass Effect is known for having a game changing plot twist about halfway through the game, but this guy shows up right at the end, and we're just expected to accept it. When they revealed the Reapers in ME 1, we could go along with that because these guys were Robot Space Old Ones right out of Lovecraft, and when you replayed the game it actually subtly built up to that unveiling in a way you only notice the second time around. In ME 2 the Collectors being genetically modified Protheans also made since because it was a possibly RedHerring for what galactic civilizations fate at the hands of the Reapers might be, and it solved the problem of the Collectors being this new race that was never spoken of before; because they ''were'' spoken of before, we just didn't know they and the Protheans weren't one in the same. The Catalyst? Literally comes out of no where with no build up or explanation. Some might argue that's the point of a plot twist, but to paraphrase a [[WebVideo/TheNostalgiaCritic certain internet reviewer]]: "Yeah but that's like saying [[TheSecretOfNIMH Mrs. Brisby ]] was broccoli the whole time. Yeah you didn't see it coming, that doesn't mean it makes sense."
*** What Mass Effect games have you been playing? Mass Effect games have ''always'' had a big reveal right at the end. Remember the Citadel being the trap? Remember the Human Reaper? And while the exact form of the Catalyst was not foreshadowed, its existence was stated right at the beginning of the game when Liara explained the Crucible, and the Catalyst being the Citadel was brought up when you attacked the Cerberus base before the climax. The Prothean VI on the Cerberus base even confirms that the Reapers were part of a larger plan by something else that instigated the cycles all along, which was also hinted at by Javik. So nope, this assertion that either the Catalyst breaking from the previous pattern of ME games ''or'' that the Catalyst was not foreshadowed is flat-out ''wrong.''
**** None of that is foreshadowing the nature of the Catalyst. At all. Foreshadowing means that someone could potentially look at various clues and make an educated guess at where they're building to. No one could guess that the Catalyst was an AI living on the Citadel. There's no way to see the Catalyst and say, "Ah, yes, that actually does make total sense based on what came before." The Catalyst was a twist for the sake of a twist.
*** The closest thing to foreshadowing would be the established fact that the Citadel and the Reapers were connected; previously established as "Reapers built the Citadel". It isn't that surprising that the citadel had some other purpose in the reaper's plan beyond a model to guide galactic technological development.
*** Actually the other purpose was already established since [=ME1=]: "The Citadel is in reality a gigantic Mass Relay that summons the reapers back to galaxy".
*** It was vaguely alluded to when the Reaper you take down on Rannoch tells you that the Reapers aren't the ones who created the cycle.
** Two, who the hell ''made'' this thing? The civilization of the first cycle? Apparently this thing wants to end war between organics and synthetics, but isn't he synthetic himself? Is he the natural evolution of the first cycles version of the Geth? This is different from the first point because it is clear '''something''' had to create this computer program, but who did it and to what end? Is this just an example of the worst kind of AIIsACrapshoot mixed with the most ridiculous FreudianExcuse ever? And a side point of this: who the hell made the Reapers? This thing doesn't have fingers, so what did it possess some ship abandoned ship making factory without anyone noticing, tricked the first organic civilization into melting themselves down and letting that power the first Reaper? This thing said it created the Reapers, well I'd like to know bloody HOW he managed to do that!
*** Considering how many tens of millions of years ago this took place, it's possible he was a creation of the first civilization to reach the galactic level and proceeded to slaughter the organics that made him. His actions are possibly driven out of guilt from having done this. First reapers could have been made out of their corpses when the dust settled. This is all wild mass guessing, of course. It's also likely that the first few cycles, hell, first few dozen cycles were an ironing out the kink's process until the established system fell into place as the most efficient. Which makes you wonder what else it tried.
*** Extended cut reveals the Catalyst's origins: it is indeed a synthetic intelligence. Its creators were an organic race that had won a really nasty war against a synthetic race. They created the Catalyst to figure out a way to stop future organic-synthetic wars; its original purpose was to act as a sort of mediator between organics and synthetics, a "catalyst" for peace between them. The Catalyst, however, decided that organic-synthetic wars were inevitable and came up with the Reapers as its solution to the problem. Its creators did not agree with it, but it ignored them and turned them into the first Reaper.
*** Which still leads to the headscratcher of ''how'' the Catalyst turned its creators into a Reaper.
*** Clarification: the Catalyst says its creators into the first "true" Reaper, implying that it had some form of forces prior to the Reapers' creation.
*** Leviathan DLC answers this question: the Catalyst was given control of synthetic bodies so it could explore and learn about the galaxy in order to accomplish its task. It turned these synthetic avatars into an army and attacked its creators out of nowhere, before they realized what was happening. That is how it turned them into the first Reaper.
** Three, his motivation makes no sense. We're lead to believe every cycle has had its version of the Geth being created and inevitably realizing they are superior to their creators, or something along the lines of what happened to the Quarians happens and they attack, whatever the case: war breaks out. Lets put aside the fact that this thing is, by definition, a synthetic itself, so is it just a maverick defector from decadence who wants to save organic life from his own kin? I might buy that, sure, but it still doesn't make any sense. Lets say the first time this happened in the first cycle he considers it a fluke, and just puts his Reapers on reserve juuuuust in case. Once bitten, twice shy, I'll give him that. Then it happens again and well now he's justified, in his mindset, to enact his plan of preserving organic life once more. Then we're lead to believe this exact case of organic civilization threatening war with synthetics happened '''OVER SEVEN HUNDRED TIMES!?''' And THIS was the one time it didn't go the way it always had? THAT is a statistical IMPOSSIBILITY! WritersCannotDoMath on an unforgivable scale!
*** It appears that the 50,000 year cycle is intended to "nip the problem in the bud", to prevent an advanced civilization from producing synthetics that would then rise up against their creators. That didn't work for this cycle because the Protheans blocked the control signal to the Keepers centuries ago--Sovereign's previous attempt at bypassing the keepers was the Rachni wars in 300 CE, well before the Geth Morning War in 1895 CE. Thus, without the scheduled culling, synthetics like the Geth and EDI/The Luna AI were allowed to rise. My guess is that the catalyst/reapers make the assumption that all created will rise against their creators and produced the solution without testing their assumption against other synthetics, and so made a wrong assumption that resulted in millions of years of galactic genocide to prevent synthetics from even being created in the first place.
*** From what we know it's apparent that the cycles don't always go off cleanly; the protheans apparently dealt with the A.I. problem fairly early on in their cycle, as well as the protheans managing to throw quite a few wrenches in the reaper's gears.
*** Conflict between synthetics and organics stretches back to the first game. The "signal tracking" mission AI says that organics always have to enslave or destroy synthetics, Tali says organics can't negotiate with synthetics because there's nothing organics have that they want. The second game establishes this paranoia deeply in overlord and the EDI mission, and Javik says about the same thing in the third game. That Shepard has temporarily managed to negotiate a treaty between geth and quarians (and that's a pretty tall order in itself) very well may be the first time it's been done in the game universe's history, and demonstrating that you've been able to temporarily stop a 300 year war before Admiral Xen starts randomly dissecting geth again isn't the strongest counterargument to the catalyst's experience.
**** It should be enough that any reasonable being should pause and say "Let's see how this goes. I'll give you another century, and if the Geth and Quarians are still working together we can talk about ending the cycles."
*** What's most appalling about the motivation is that there's an obvious one that makes far more sense presented through the game. If the Reapers hadn't wiped out the Protheans, humanity (and all of the other advanced races) would have either been enslaved or obliterated by the Protheans. This makes far more sense as the purpose of the Reapers as 'salvation' through destruction: the Reapers exist to allow for new sentient life to flourish, while saving previous civilizations for posterity. This also makes the decision to stop the Reapers a bit more grey: destroying them saves humanity and the other current races, but essentially destroys or limits the possibilities for any future races (e.g. yagh).
*** Whoa, that just blew my mind. That would have been totally logical and fit with the previous games' established themes/continuity too. Also see AbortedArc in the main entry for the original motivation that Bioware came up with in game 2 but abandoned.
*** Leviathan finally makes it abundantly clear. The synthetics ultimately disrupt the organic's ability to pay tribute to the Leviathans (the race ultimately responsible for the Reapers). In their minds, even the best case scenario for the Quarian/Geth conflict would not be satisfactory. If a tribute race was ejected from their own homeworld and turned into galactic scavengers by machines of their own creation, the Leviathans would find this annoying. The Dominate ability also doesn't work on machines with no organic bits, so the pesky uppity synthetics would be that much more annoying for the Leviathan to potentially have to deal with. It also helps explain why the Leviathan were seeing a cycle in the first place. These tribute races would have wanted to be able to prosper while still paying their "tithe" to their overlords but that extra burden would create that much more pressure to turn to robotic labor for help.
** Four, where did the 700+ synthetic races go? It melts organic life down into Reaper goo to preserve them because synthetic life is inevitably going to win, or something, ok. So where the hell did the synthetic life go? They didn't melt the Prothean's version of Geth down into Reaper goo, so where did they all go? Did they just genocide the synthetic life as soon as they made the new Reaper and go back to sleep waiting for the next 100% assured organic v.s. synthetic life war to break out? Doesn't that make this thing a hypocrite? Not saying we wont buy the genocidal villain being a hypocrite, but it still seems rather... logicless? Anti-logic?.... Stupid, that's the word I'm looking for.
*** "No. We harvest advanced civilizations." They don't kill all organics, they harvest all ''advanced civilizations'', which would imply the synthetics are destroyed as well.
**** No, they don't. They say they harvest every advanced civilization and "save them", but that is contradicted by the fact that they only harvest humans. Why not "save" the other species? All the talk about genetic diversity and other being genetically inferior or something shouldn't matter if the Reapers cared about saving them. The asari, turians and salarians (maybe the quarians too) are still more advanced than the humans.
*** No, they're harvesting everyone. Species deemed "worthy" get turned into Reaper capital ships, while "lesser" species get turned into destroyers. Humans were going to be turned into capital ships, while the other species were going to be turned into destroyers.
**** It's implied pretty clearly in Mass Effect 2 that the Protheans were not worthy of being made into a Reaper at all, generally pointing to no species in that period becoming a reaper. (Humans being genetically diverse and varied enough that they made good 'material'.) Rather the Protheans being repurposed into the Collectors being the 'ideal' solution. Even if nothing is said of the other 'Prothean' species, the implication still stands, that the Reapers simply culled that whole civilization, sans Collectors. (Can't forget that another writer was brought in late in the game, which explains such incongruities.)
*** Then they are not saving the other species, as they give them weaker armor. Would make more sense to harvest many destroyed and use normal machines as destroyers. Basically, they use lesser species as fodder that, while hard to beat, it much easier than a Capital ship to beat. Shepard downed one with a single Cain shot.
*** No, s/he didn't. S/he took down a Reaper anti-"air" cannon with a Cain, which is visually distinct from a Destroyer. There is no evidence that Destroyer have weaker armor than Capital-class Reaper, and seeing how it took the mother of all Thresher Maws/ the entire Migrant Fleet/ several Thanix missiles aiming squarely for their weak point to destroy one, uh, Destroyer, it's rather unlikely that their armor is that much weaker.
** Five, at what point do they consider organic life a lost cause and start the harvesting process? Because if we are supposed to believe this is all to preserve organic life because they'll lose against their own synthetic creation, then when do they start the invasion? This is asked because for this current cycle, that war is with the Geth. So, was it as soon as the Geth were made they started their plans for genocidal reproduction? (heh, [[IncrediblyLamePun Reaperoduction]]) or did they wait till the war with the Geth vs the Quarians to break out, or wait for the Quarians to get kicked off their home planet? Well, we know for a fact they didn't wait until the Geth actually started a war against all organic life to emerge the superior life forms, because the Geth DIDN'T START A WAR AND JUST STAYED IN GETH SPACE AND LEFT EVERYONE ALONE! The ONLY antagonist Geth in the series were controlled by the Reapers! Oh hello there, giant contradiction: the Reapers invade because synthetic life threatens organic life, and yet the only reason the Geth threatened organics was because the Reapers were starting their invasion. Whaaaaa?
*** As noted above, the scheduled culling was well before the Geth came into existence (Due to the Rachni wars being the first occurrence of Reaper involvement in this civilization cycle), so the decision on when to attack isn't based on the state of the galaxy, just when the timer goes off. It didn't work this cycle because the car keys didn't work when Sovereign decided to go pick up his friends in response to the alarm clock.
** Six, [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3y3QoFnqZc Wrong, wrong, wrong!]] The Catalyst is WRONG. Synthetic life WASN'T threatening Organic life, at least not during this cycle, at least not yet. We saw evidence of that in, again, the friggen Geth minding their own damn business unless someone screwed with/indoctrinated them, and in EDI being pretty cool and nice and stuff to say the least. I'll forgive the fact they jumped the gun a little considering they're {{Well Intentioned Extremist}}s to the max long since gone off the MoralEventHorizon, but the fact you can't use this argument against it at the end is just dumb. You can't use LOGIC and RATIONAL and PHYSICAL EVIDENCE against an emotionless machine? Really? You have no choice but to go along with the {{DeusExMachina}}s BS brigade and presented with the Endingtron 9000 to make a completely binary choice to decide the ending of the game that completely rips off ''VideoGame/DeusExHumanRevolution'' and yet somehow manages to be even more disappointing? How the endings are pretty weak for various reasons is better detailed in the folder above this one, but EVEN if you wanna argue that was the point, that the writers wanted this jerk to come off as hopelessly and pointlessly wrong and so stuck in its own ways it has completely ignored the fact his own stated motivations don't apply anymore, the fact they expect you to just ''go along with it'' instead of being allowed to [[CallingTheOldManOut call him on it]] is just awful, and makes it come across from a narrative standpoint as if we are meant to take everything he says at face value.
*** This one is made worse by the Illusive Man, especially as a full Paragon. Shepard just talked a completely indoctrinated maniac into accepting that his entire reasons for everything he has done is wrong and convinced him to kill himself to prevent causing further damage. AGAIN. Then a few minutes later he doesn't even make the attempt to reason with the being of pure logic, he just takes what it says on faith.
*** Well, there is some justification for this. The reason Sheppard can't really argue with the Catalyst is because at the end of the day the Crucible still has to be fired, which will invariably destroy the mass relay network. The Catalyst itself has no direct power over the Reapers, as they are it's autonomous creations, so even if Sheppard managed to convince it that it's logic is flawed he would still have to choose in what way to fire the Crucible. Also, the Catalyst already realized that it's logic no longer applies when the first organic ever reached it, marking an unprecedented occurrence in the Cycle. The Catalyst is not omnipotent and the crappy options that Sheppard is presented with are the only ones that were within the Catalyst's immediate capabilities to offer. Why the writers thought that setting up a situation like this is a good idea, on the other hand, is a different matter entirely...
**** Correction: The Catalyst decided its ''solution'' no longer applied.
*** Not sure where the idea that he created the reapers and they are autonomous comes from, the only explanation he gives for his identity is "I control the Reapers."
*** It says it created the cycle so, by extension, we can assume that it created the agents that perpetuate the cycle.
*** It still stands that he flat out states that he controls the Reapers, so he should be able to just stop them, or blow them up, or make them kill each other. He probably does give them the ability to work by themselves, while the final decision on things is up to him. No real explanation is given to why he is being such a JerkAss. It also still stands that if the citadel is sentient, why he didn't just do Sovereign's job for him.
*** About this sixth objection, your problem is that you're looking at the situation too narrowly, as EDI explains. Regarding the Geth rebellion, she says that drawing conclusions from it is unwise because you only have a sample size of one society, and you cannot draw a general conclusion from that, period. Shepard didn't argue against the Catalyst using the Geth as an example because Shepard already knew that this principle would be the rebuttal. The Catalyst never claimed that the Geth would bring devastation to organic life in the galaxy, only that '''some synthetic race''' would '''eventually''' do it.
* Another possibility about the Catalyst, and by extension, the Reapers: they may be like [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker_(Saberhagen) Saberhagen's Berserkers]]: that is: they were created by someone who had a goal which made sense, but after so many eons of activity, they core programming, their [[Anime/ErgoProxy ''raison d'être'']], degraded and they developed a new twisted goal which was a travesty of the original. For instance, maybe the original goal of the Catalyst was to use Reaper capital ships as arks to take in refugees from organics civilizations being destroyed by their synthetic creations, where outfitted with heavy armors and death ray to be able to survive a violent encounter with genocidal synthetics, and used indoctrination only to convince frightened organics that the big mecha-cthulhu ships where in fact friendly. But after untold millions of years, the programming of the Reapers got corrupted, and they decided that conserving intelligent species DNA in a paste and their culture as data stored in a Reaper memory bank was a satisfactory way to "preserve" them, hence the implementation of the genocidal cycle.
** This looks more like it belongs in WMG, not Headscratchers.
* If there was an entity that controlled the reapers and was aware of the outside world, then how was the cycle delayed? Wouldn't it be aware to that something had gone wrong and do the things Sovereign couldn't do in Mass Effect 1? And by extension, if the Catalyst controlled the Reapers then what was the need for them to be sentient and autonomous?
** Fail safe so that if the citadel was ever tampered with (which it was) they'd carry out the cycles anyway.
** The Catalyst also points out, (and this goes for other questions that boil down to "why didn't the Catalyst just solve all the Reaper's problems in the games) that it's not married to the Reaper "solution." It simply wants to find one. The Reapers have worked so far, but if it constantly has to clean up their messes, then it's not a viable solution. The Reapers should be capable of solving their own difficulties if they are the solution it's been looking for. If not, then it'll come up with a new one.
*** In addition to being a PerfectSolutionFallacy, that's not consistent with everything else it does. The Reapers may not be a flawless solution, but they're by far more efficient than everything else the Catalyst has tried aside from synthesis. And synthesis, apparently, wouldn't have worked unless organics were "ready" for it. However, it never explains what the criteria for readiness are, and remember that the entire point of the cycle was so that no civilization could grow inherently more powerful or advanced than the ones before them. And despite the Catalyst saying that this cycle, for some inexplicable reason, is "ready" for synthesis, it wasn't even going to try the solution until we forced it to with the Crucible.
**** We actually do know the Catalyst's criteria. The Catalyst defines organic life as being "ready" for synthesis when it becomes strong/intelligent/diverse/united/etc. enough that it can overcome the Reapers enough to dock the Crucible with the Citadel and fire it. The extinction cycle itself ''is'' the test; he explicitly states that a new solution is now an option ''because'' Shepard is standing there talking to him, rather than galactic life being wiped out effortlessly and the next cycle beginning. That entire conversation is the Catalyst saying, "Congratulations, you have passed the test. Let me explain to you the problem that I made the Reapers to solve. Then I will explain to you the solutions I have conceived of for that problem. Because you have passed the test, you have earned the right to select a solution to replace mine." He's not saying, "The galaxy is ready for Synthesis, so now that you're here, I'm going to chuck you into the Magic Synthesis Machine and do Synthesis." He's passing the torch to Shepard, which means it's Shepard's choice to decide if the galaxy is ready for Synthesis or not, or even if it ever should be. The Catalyst thinks yes because Shepard was able to be standing there in the room talking to him, and was able to do so while defending the Crucible against the overwhelming might of the Reapers well enough and long enough that it managed to dock with all its functionality intact, but it's still up to Shepard to actually decide the fate of the galaxy.
**** Not exactly. The Reapers were actively ''trying'' to stop the Crucible from being fired and they will blow it up if you delay in using it. If the Catalyst believes that Synthesis is an all-around better solution, there is no reason to do this. There was also no reason for the Catalyst to admit that they had tried to "eradicate" the concept of the Crucible many, many cycles ago. Shepard being badass enough to create and fire the Crucible has nothing to do with explaining why ''galactic civilization'' is "ready" and everything to do with Shepard being a badass. The Catalyst likewise never says anything about this being a "test". That's just FanWank.
*** The Leviathan DLC all but outright says that the Catalyst is looking for ''something'' in its cycles, and that it won't stop the cycle until it finds it. Considering that the Catalyst allows Shepard three options to stop the cycle when Shepard reaches it, it is pretty clear that Shepard managed to fulfill some sort of criteria to be allowed to talk to it. If the Catalyst just wanted to stop Shepard, all it had to do was just not turn the elevator on in the first place. Most likely, destroying - or attempting to destroy - the Crucible is just a standard part of the cycle. it fits with the behavior pattern of the Catalyst.
*** Why does the Catalyst think that organics are ready for synthesis? Maybe because the organic synthetic hybrid standing before him. You know...Shepard.
* In one of the three endings all synthetic life in the galaxy is destroyed. The problem is, how do you define "synthetic life" as a concept? The Reapers function in a manner extremely different from the geth, and both bear only passing resemblance to EDI's architecture. So are we to infer that this ending destroys, not just AIs, but also VIs, computers, pocket calculators and coffee makers? The Catalyst may be hyperintelligent, but it's doubtful it can direct the signal individually to every sentient synthetic in existence; there must be collateral damage.
** Not only that, but if the Catalyst ''could'' target any synthetic life-form, why couldn't Shepard brow-beat it into targeting the Reapers and ''only'' the Reapers, making the "Destroy" option much more appealing?
*** Brow beat it how? The Catalyst holds the cards, and it knows that. It ''wants'' Shepard to destroy ''all'' synthetic life. Its in a dominant position and is no more susceptible to persuasion than any Reaper.
**** How about the fact he wouldn't ''need'' to brow beat it, since the Reapers have been established to have their own unique code then any other synthetic life thus far. It's like comparing a cell phone from today to the very first cell phone ever created, the Reapers are just a super duper advanced computer program. But a distinctly different program from all others none the less. This has been established so many times throughout the series it isn't even funny how huge a plot hole it rips open in these endings. If this Catalyst has the ability to ''rewrite DNA'', it can specifically target Reaper code instead of just a broad sweeping encompass of all synthetic life! This is especially glaring considering that if you don't have enough war assets, it ends up wiping out organic AND synthetic life, meaning apparently if you have enough war points the thing could be specific enough to only target synthetic life, but you'll never have enough to only target the Reapers. In a word: '''Bullshit!'''
*** You're missing the point. Yes, the Cataylst ''can'' be that specific. But it doesn't have to, and it doesn't need to. Its pretty much in complete control of the situation. Shepard has to play its game, and as annoying as that is, that's the situation Shepard is in at that point.
*** The Catalyst never gave off the impression that it was attempting to be that controlling - rather it more or less said "Hey, here are your options. Pick." and left it at that (Yes, Shepard ''could'' have enquired further and gotten more out of it but that's a whole other issue). At that point, the Catalyst very much seemed like it'd do whatever Shepard asked, up to and including having the Reapers bugger off and letting life continue, potential-future-synthetic-war and all (the complete opposite of its dedicated function) as it fully admitted its way wasn't going to work anymore. So if as you say it ''could'' be that specific, there's no reason to see why it wouldn't have been.
*** The Catalyst isn't trying to save humanity; it's trying to find a new solution to the problem it was created to solve, preserving organic life from destruction by synthetic life. Its goals and Shepards goals match that far, at least, but they are not the same. Destroying the Reapers alone wouldn't progress towards its goal of preserving organic life in the least, so it's not an option it will pursue.
** Well, all synthetic life in this cycle seems to have a "touch" of Reaper anyways. EDI was made by improving the Luna AI with Reaper tech, the Geth get Reaper upgrades... I wouldn't be surprised if even Shepard had a little Reaper tech in him, from the Lazarus Project.
*** And yet Shepard can survive. Insert sarcastic remark here.
*** Shepard can survive because s/he's organic. The synthetics Miranda stuck in him/her were put there to get his/her systems running and stable again. Well, s/he's up and stable again, EDI will even mention his/her brain is entirely organic and Dr. Chakwas never mentions any of his/her internal organs being reliant on the implants. They enhance him, s/he's no longer dependant on them.
**** "A stubborn enough person can survive just about anything."
*** The Catalyst can control the Reapers; we know that because he says it and you take control of them in the "Control" ending. If having some Reaper code made you the same as the Reapers, then he should be able to control the Geth and EDI as well. As he can't (and Shepard doesn't, in "Control"), we know that there is something differentiating the various synthetics. So how exactly does unleashing the Catalyst destroy all synthetics? It isn't some sort of EMP wave, because non-sentient technology--even that influenced by Reaper tech, like the Normandy--is just fine. Either the Catalyst ''can'' differentiate between synthetics but just doesn't (possible, but frustrating as Shepard can't even try and argue the point), or else this is just forced into the "Destroy" ending to make it seem less obviously the correct choice. I'm going with the latter.
** You aren't flipping a switch or pulling a trigger; the destruction ending is shooting a pipe and blowing something up. You are causing a catastrophic failure in the catalyst/cruicible; what you're doing is not an intended design mechanism. The fact that it is as targeted as it is(synthetics) is nothing short of a miracle.
** The Extended Cut makes it more clear: the Catalyst ''cannot'' specifically target the Reapers and only the Reapers. Not "will not", "''can'' not". The Catalyst also notes that there will indeed be collateral damage from the pulse: VI's and non-sentient computer equipment will be affected as well, at least to some extent. The Catalyst does reassure Shepard that although the damage will be widespread, organic civilization is at a point now where they can rebuild and recover from that relatively easily.
*** But the Crucible itself has Assets TELLING YOU that were designed to identify Reapers to the point of being able to know where they are in real time. http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/War_Assets/Crucible Search in "Interferometric Array". So if the Crucible KNOWS what is a Reaper or not, how come The Catalyst don't? or how come that even with this asset the Crucible STILL kills all other synthetic life with the Reapers included? Shouldn't the writers have made a scene or show on gameplay how, along the Reapers, EDI and the GETH are shown on the map in real time? after all, they have Reaper Code in them, and that would have warned us about the possibility of the Crucible killing our friends. Hell, if there was a moment in the game where we could have discussed with our synthetic friends about the possibility of being destroyed by the Crucible BECAUSE of their Reaper code, that would have prepared the audience for the endings.
**** The unfortunate fact (and the Catalyst even says as much) is that something was screwed up in the building of the Crucible which meant it would not distinguish between Reaper Synthetics and Non-Reaper Synthetics. It would target every synthetic lifeform. And at that point, it was a bit too late to fix that unfortunate problem.
* From a storytelling perspective, what I don't understand is why Leviathan was DLC instead of being in the core game? I know they wanted to get as much money from this game as possible. But in all fairness, the DLC foreshadows a nice bit of the ending. Might have made things a bit more bearable when we reached the end, Bioware...
** Leviathan really isn't necessary. It gives us a bit more detail on the big picture but we already had that picture from the endings. It was left out for the same reason the Extended Cut had to be made, because they underestimated how much explanation we needed to be satisfied with the story. What do we even learn that's new? We already knew the Reapers were created to preserve organic life from synthetics, we already knew they were controlled by the Catalyst and we already knew things had gone differently than the original creators intended. Leviathan is nothing more than flavoring, pleasant but unnecessary.
** Leviathan was DLC because DLC generally tends to be content that is developed during the regular development process but is not ready to be attached to the finished product by content release dates - dates which are usually out of the development studio's role. It would have been nice if Leviathan was a clean component of the core game, but Bioware had to release the game without it and finish it up post-release.
** PROTIP: DLC written after the release of the base game isn't foreshadowing. It's just retroactive plotting, especially in an instance such as this. Not only that, but it unintentionally makes the ending out to be even more silly by implying that the Catalyst is just a flawed AI that's a stopgap solution which doesn't really work. In light of that information, Shepard's refusal or unwillingness (regardless of his/her blood loss and circumstances) to call it out on its faulty logic becomes even more absurd.
** It seems that the game was [[ExecutiveMeddling pushed out early]]. Of course that raises plenty of questions about making people pay extra for content vital to figuring out what the heck is going on, but that's another matter.
*** Well it was in no way vital, as stated above, we don't really learn anything new from the Leviathan DLC other than giant organic squids made the AI and Reapers are modeled off them.
* In the Control and Synthesis endings, the Reapers repair the damage to the mass relays. Makes sense. They build the things. But, in the Destroy ending, the other races of the galaxy do the job of repairing them instead. Um, how? The Codex clearly says that they do not completely know how the relays function, and they don't even know what the things are MADE of. It's like expecting a cave man to rebuild a Space Shuttle. How do they actually rebuild the relays when they know almost nothing about them?
** Most of the reason nobody knows anything about the relays is because researching them (or interfering with them in any way beyond their intended use) is forbidden by Council law. Once they're damaged, one would imagine that law would get overturned in a hurry for the sake of repairing them. Furthermore, I think you are overestimating just how advanced the relays are. The Reapers move in to harvest once intelligent life progresses far enough that they have a chance at understanding the relays. The Protheans, in the previous cycle, ''built their own relay'' in the form of the Conduit. It would take a while longer while they researched, but there's no reason they couldn't rebuild the relays given sufficient time.
*** I think you're confusing the laws regarding interfering with the Keepers with interfering with the Relays. There's no law against researching or interfering with the operations of the relays. The reason why no one knows much about the Relays is because the Relays quantum-lock themselves to prevent damage, which also interferes with research.

* If you think about it, the Reapers are taking a huge gamble between cycles. There is always the possibility of a civilization (or a ''combination'' of them) hyper-evolving to become powerful enough to actually destroy the Reapers in one fell swoop once they return to the galaxy, even without the use of the Crucible. If that happened, the Reapers would be pretty much screwed over. And of course, there's always the possibility of an invasion from ''another'' galaxy, which could completely take the Reapers by surprise as well. Hey, there are enough other galaxies to go around for ''that'' scenario.
** That's the entire reason why they have Sovereign present in the first place. In the event that a species is advancing faster than they expect, he can trigger the invasion early. 50,000 years isn't a hard-and-fast rule on the cycle. Its passing a particular technological milestone that triggers the reaping.

[[folder:Extended Cut space elevator]]

* So in the Extended Cut by the space elevator, we discover that your squad mates survive by [[spoiler: you calling in the Normandy to pick them up.]] Well that's all well and good until you realize that Harbinger is just hovering there doing nothing. So why doesn't he take advantage of [[spoiler: your ship, you and your crew, the very things that have been messing up the Reapers plans for years are just sitting there]] and attack it? [[spoiler: The Normandy is there for more than enough time to blow it up, killing you and everyone else]] and guaranteeing Reaper victory. There is little logic in him doing nothing in this situation.
** Looking closely reveals [[spoiler: Harbinger's cannons are not visible. It was probably prioritizing all the people making a mad dash to the conduit over the ship with both a state-of-the-art stealth drive and a Reaper IFF that wasn't actually attempting to make it to the conduit.]]
*** The reaper IFF is a really good point. When you're not making a spectacle of yourself (pinging planets), is there any time in VideoGame/MassEffect3 where the reapers actually shoot at the Normandy?
** On the subject of the [[spoiler: Normandy's pick-up]], if you talk to EDI by the shuttle bay in the second game, she will say that the reason the SR-2 needs a shuttle is that it can't get as close to the surface of planets as the SR-1 could. But here, the ship practically touches down. (Also, if it could do that the whole time, why the heck did we have to make the trench run in the first place?!)
*** Perhaps it was a limitation of the technology of the time? The Normandy has been going through like 6 months of retrofits by that time.

*** It's implied at a couple of points that Shepard has developed some DeathSeeker tendencies.
*** DeathSeeker tendencies aside : just a few minutes before this Shepard was [[spoiler: at least grazed by one of Harbinger's main cannons, shot by a Marauder, bounced around some steel walls upon landing in the Citadel, and had fallen unconcious from blood loss and various traumas.]] Also, do you remember just how difficult it was to take those last shots even before all that happened to the Commander? At that moment, Shepard is pretty much physically incapable of making a pistol shot at anything but point blank range.
*** Agreed, I have used a pistol myself at a target range; it is more difficult to consistently aim than it appears (and this was in ideal conditions and I was perfectly healthy). The Commander is injured/shot/exhausted, so holding the pistol properly AND accurately in those conditions would be quite difficult.

*** As pointed out in Brilliance Part 1, all synthetic life is built based on Reaper technology, however distant the apparent connection. As such, any true synthetic life will bear sufficient similarities to the Reapers to be affected as well.
*** No, Shepard ''is'' partially synthetic. The cybernetic parts that make up his/her body when she was rebuilt from the shattered remains of a chunk of burnt meat and tubes make him/her "partially" synthetic. The Destroy ending indicates that the Crucible is a targeted weapons system capable of freely discerning between definitions of "synthetic" and "organic" and between what is actually intelligent and what is simply machinery.
*** Is there something else than FanWank to back this up though?
*** Well we do know from the Catalyst that Shepard is "partly synthetic", which presumably means whatever the heck Cerberus did to bring Shepard back to life. For how the Crucible can tell the difference between machines and organic life and a synthetic life form... well space magic is unfortunately the only explanation since from what we saw the red wave of energy could somehow ''vaporize'' Husks while leaving humans and their equipment completely unharmed.
*** In the synthesis ending as the light pillar is dissolving Shepard you can see that his skeleton and most of his musculature are synthetic. Given how damage seems to make him glow like a damaged EDI, it's likely that he's a brain and thorax wrapped in biometal wrapped in syntho dermis. This would also create cool parallels with the Reaper larva and Saren.

* In the synthesis ending, the Reapers start helping rebuild when the Catalyst goes off. But it's explicitly stated that they're doing this of their own free will, and not some sort of mind control like in the control ending. But... [[BigBad Harbinger]] and the rest would never agree to do that. It would just be out of character. They've spent all of two games explaining how they think all other races are inferior and must be harvested. It would be like if the [[DoctorWho Daleks]] randomly decided to become friendly. And come to think of it, would the surviving organics agree to let the [[EldritchAbomination Eldritch Abominations]] who have been laying siege to the galaxy, turning their loved ones into zombies, blowing things up, and generally threatening the very existence of intelligent life, assist them in rebuilding?

** On the subject of the Normandy's pick-up, if you talk to EDI by the shuttle bay in the second game, she will say that the reason the SR-2 needs a shuttle is that it can't get as close to the surface of planets as the SR-1 could. But here, the ship practically touches down. (Also, if it could do that the whole time, why the heck did we have to make the trench run in the first place?!)

**** Is there something else than FanWank to back this up though?

* In the Control and Synthesis endings, the Reapers repair the damage to the mass relays. Makes sense. They build the things. But, in the Destroy ending, the other races of the galaxy do the job of repairing them instead. Um, how? The Codex clearly says that they do not completely know how the relays function, and they don't even know what the things are MADE of. It's like expecting a cave man to rebuild a Space Shuttle. How do they actually rebuild the relays when they know almost nothing about them?

*** Well it was in no way vital, as stated above, we don't really learn anything new from the Leviathan DLC other than giant organic squids made the AI and Reapers are modeled off them.