History Headscratchers / MassEffect3

2nd Sep '17 9:01:31 AM HalcyonDayz
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* This brings up a point that bugged me since the whole "father" versus "mother" point Aethyta raised in ME3: how do Omnitools translate the words "male" and "female" and associated terms (boy and girl, man and woman) into the Asari language? Or do they just translate the words into the common trade language?

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* This brings up a point that bugged me since the whole "father" versus "mother" point Aethyta raised in ME3: ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'': how do Omnitools translate the words "male" and "female" and associated terms (boy and girl, man and woman) into the Asari language? Or do they just translate the words into the common trade language?



** And yet, if you sleep with Kaidan in ''VideoGame/MassEffect1'' and get involved with someone else in ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'', he will accuse you of cheating in ME3 -- despite what ''appears'', to this troper, to be a ''very nasty'' breakup initiated by ''him'' in ''VideoGame/MassEffect2''. Liara also gets pretty upset if you cheat on her; if you leave her for someone else, she'll go out of her way to humiliate them in front of you. (E.g., bringing up Tali's Nerve Stim Pro install history during a mission where you're both present.) Not sure about Ashley, but I don't think you're meant to consider these romances as "short term things" in general.

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** And yet, if you sleep with Kaidan in ''VideoGame/MassEffect1'' and get involved with someone else in ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'', he will accuse you of cheating in ME3 ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'' -- despite what ''appears'', to this troper, to be a ''very nasty'' breakup initiated by ''him'' in ''VideoGame/MassEffect2''. Liara also gets pretty upset if you cheat on her; if you leave her for someone else, she'll go out of her way to humiliate them in front of you. (E.g., bringing up Tali's Nerve Stim Pro install history during a mission where you're both present.) Not sure about Ashley, but I don't think you're meant to consider these romances as "short term things" in general.



** Something that bothered me about the Jacob Romance when I did it for the first time in hopes of hearing him get chewed out in ME3 was some of his lines in ''VideoGame/MassEffect2''.

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** Something that bothered me about the Jacob Romance when I did it for the first time in hopes of hearing him get chewed out in ME3 ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'' was some of his lines in ''VideoGame/MassEffect2''.



** Miranda then explains they need a tech to do that part. But if Jacob's words are considered in his mind, him and probably the rest of the crew were not coming back from the mission. So have sex with Shepard, come to terms with the fact you'll never have a wife and a kid and a house with a picket fence and go complete your mission. You can almost imagine him picturing his funeral and thinking about what might be said as he fights off collectors. But then comes the hitch in his plan. He survives. He survives the impossible. Now for the rest of the game we can consider Jacob to be riding on the "I can't believe i'm alive" cloud and not really thinking about the fact Shepard is his girlfriend. Cut to the Normandy being drydocked and Shepard being relieved of duty. Jacob goes to think about things on a beach. He starts picturing scenarios. Shepard being locked up forever, Shepard going off to fight the Reapers, Perhaps he even imagines Shepard actually saving the galaxy. But then comes the hard truth of it. Even if Shepard destroys the Reapers Shepard's not going to quit. Regardless of how you play your Shepard just start up ME3 and play right till you get the first dialogue choice. Now imagine that's day to day life. Jacob has no idea what Shepard's going to have to do when the reapers come and the last time he saw her she was being a flirty minx. He's completely unaware she's going to see children die, worlds burn, and friends fall. If Jacob did have a psychic vision of all those events he could hypothesize Shepard might be so weary of death she'd settle down. But Shepard killed Sovereign then let the alliance send her to hunt Geth despite Shepard, Anderson, and Hackett all knowing the Reapers were the real threat. So to Jacob, Shepard is alliance through and through. The best he can hope for is that she'd be willing to take enough time to actually give birth to their child before handing it off to Jacob and making him a stay at home dad while Shepard does more tours. Brynn on the other hand who he meets when he's muddled up is not like shepard. She is more then happy to let Jacob play hero and she'll raise the baby. After all being a scientist she could probably get a lab at home to work from to she could dual duties. Meanwhile if Shepard took her baby with her on adventures... Well we all saw what happened to the first normandy. It makes Brynn the clear favorite in Jacob's eyes. It also doesn't help if Shepard asks about Jacob and Brynn's relationship and then after having all the info choosing to try and seduce him when Brynns in the next room if you chose that option. The real problem is Brynn has absolutely no sympathy for Shepard's side of the story and comes off cold. And with the exception of the Slap in the Citadel DLC it's almost entirely identical to a nonromanced shepard. You can be as cold to Brynn as she is to you and she'll still "save" you from cerberus, still say that she's glad you're on their side, and will still want to name the baby Shepard. The very idea Brynn would suggest naming their child after Jacob's Ex is functionally ridiculous. Add to it how the closest thing you get to anyone sympathizing with Shepard is Joker's post mission comment if you talk to him that he already doesn't like Brynn on Shepard's behalf despite Shepard insisting she's fine about the turn of events. It makes the entire arc look like the Devs just didn't care enough to bother with Jacob any more then they absolutely had to.

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** Miranda then explains they need a tech to do that part. But if Jacob's words are considered in his mind, him and probably the rest of the crew were not coming back from the mission. So have sex with Shepard, come to terms with the fact you'll never have a wife and a kid and a house with a picket fence and go complete your mission. You can almost imagine him picturing his funeral and thinking about what might be said as he fights off collectors. But then comes the hitch in his plan. He survives. He survives the impossible. Now for the rest of the game we can consider Jacob to be riding on the "I can't believe i'm alive" cloud and not really thinking about the fact Shepard is his girlfriend. Cut to the Normandy being drydocked and Shepard being relieved of duty. Jacob goes to think about things on a beach. He starts picturing scenarios. Shepard being locked up forever, Shepard going off to fight the Reapers, Perhaps he even imagines Shepard actually saving the galaxy. But then comes the hard truth of it. Even if Shepard destroys the Reapers Shepard's not going to quit. Regardless of how you play your Shepard just start up ME3 ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'' and play right till you get the first dialogue choice. Now imagine that's day to day life. Jacob has no idea what Shepard's going to have to do when the reapers come and the last time he saw her she was being a flirty minx. He's completely unaware she's going to see children die, worlds burn, and friends fall. If Jacob did have a psychic vision of all those events he could hypothesize Shepard might be so weary of death she'd settle down. But Shepard killed Sovereign then let the alliance send her to hunt Geth despite Shepard, Anderson, and Hackett all knowing the Reapers were the real threat. So to Jacob, Shepard is alliance through and through. The best he can hope for is that she'd be willing to take enough time to actually give birth to their child before handing it off to Jacob and making him a stay at home dad while Shepard does more tours. Brynn on the other hand who he meets when he's muddled up is not like shepard. She is more then happy to let Jacob play hero and she'll raise the baby. After all being a scientist she could probably get a lab at home to work from to she could dual duties. Meanwhile if Shepard took her baby with her on adventures... Well we all saw what happened to the first normandy. It makes Brynn the clear favorite in Jacob's eyes. It also doesn't help if Shepard asks about Jacob and Brynn's relationship and then after having all the info choosing to try and seduce him when Brynns in the next room if you chose that option. The real problem is Brynn has absolutely no sympathy for Shepard's side of the story and comes off cold. And with the exception of the Slap in the Citadel DLC it's almost entirely identical to a nonromanced shepard. You can be as cold to Brynn as she is to you and she'll still "save" you from cerberus, still say that she's glad you're on their side, and will still want to name the baby Shepard. The very idea Brynn would suggest naming their child after Jacob's Ex is functionally ridiculous. Add to it how the closest thing you get to anyone sympathizing with Shepard is Joker's post mission comment if you talk to him that he already doesn't like Brynn on Shepard's behalf despite Shepard insisting she's fine about the turn of events. It makes the entire arc look like the Devs just didn't care enough to bother with Jacob any more then they absolutely had to.



** You're just assuming Jack won't stay faithful to the one person she trusts and who hasn't proven he's just interested in sex but wants a real relationship. And maybe she would. But we don't ever find out she did and she certainly didn't enter into a committed and monogamous relationship with someone else like Jacob did. The first game has one unique heterosexual love interest for both genders and Liara for both giving both genders two choices. The second game gives each gender three unique heterosexual love interests as well as three (or, well, two as yo can't have Samara and Morinth as options at the same time) quasi-LIs who don't get you the achievement for both genders. At this point, I'm wondering why all the bi options are women. In the third game, there are five LIs (who, for the most part, carry over from previous games) for men, three for women, and four four either with Kaidan being the one male LI who could be for both genders. In the Citadel DLC there's Javik and Vega for female Shepard and Samara for either. But that's just the DLC. And if you just started playing with ME3, as a female Shepard your only heterosexual LI is Kaidan since Garrus and Thane have to be romanced in ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' and let's not talk about Jacob. Female Shepard has several homosexual options they can choose from. Similarly, the only homosexual option male Shepard seems to have is Cortez while he has plenty of heterosexual options. And that's not a case of one being lesser than the others but it does mean that if you want to date someone of a certain gender you either get fortunate and have multiple options or you're stuck with one you'd better hope you like if you want any action at all. And whatever you want to call it, it is a problem.

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** You're just assuming Jack won't stay faithful to the one person she trusts and who hasn't proven he's just interested in sex but wants a real relationship. And maybe she would. But we don't ever find out she did and she certainly didn't enter into a committed and monogamous relationship with someone else like Jacob did. The first game has one unique heterosexual love interest for both genders and Liara for both giving both genders two choices. The second game gives each gender three unique heterosexual love interests as well as three (or, well, two as yo can't have Samara and Morinth as options at the same time) quasi-LIs who don't get you the achievement for both genders. At this point, I'm wondering why all the bi options are women. In the third game, there are five LIs (who, for the most part, carry over from previous games) for men, three for women, and four four either with Kaidan being the one male LI who could be for both genders. In the Citadel DLC there's Javik and Vega for female Shepard and Samara for either. But that's just the DLC. And if you just started playing with ME3, ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'', as a female Shepard your only heterosexual LI is Kaidan since Garrus and Thane have to be romanced in ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' and let's not talk about Jacob. Female Shepard has several homosexual options they can choose from. Similarly, the only homosexual option male Shepard seems to have is Cortez while he has plenty of heterosexual options. And that's not a case of one being lesser than the others but it does mean that if you want to date someone of a certain gender you either get fortunate and have multiple options or you're stuck with one you'd better hope you like if you want any action at all. And whatever you want to call it, it is a problem.



** The Reapers have access to all the knowledge of every race they harvest (or at least the collective knowledge of the harvested individuals - sufficient for comprehensive knowledge of culture and technology if not every dirty little secret). This is strongly suggested in ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' and confirmed in ME3 EC. Even if you assume that the leviathans Apex species initial technological superiority is not enough to maintain a trump-level edge - even with the Reapers explicitly controlling the length of every subsequent cycles technological development prior to harvesting - any clever ideas, novel technological approaches, etc are absorbed by the Reapers as they go. Nothing says they don't do a quick upgrade as they cool down from each harvest, finish making new Reapers etc - if one is called for. The initial cycles may have been shorter or more problematic specifically due to unexpected organic brilliance but by now they have it down to a science, they've accounted for every alternate technology, clever new approach, etc long since. They've been doing this for a ''billion'' years.

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** The Reapers have access to all the knowledge of every race they harvest (or at least the collective knowledge of the harvested individuals - sufficient for comprehensive knowledge of culture and technology if not every dirty little secret). This is strongly suggested in ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' and confirmed in ME3 ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'' EC. Even if you assume that the leviathans Apex species initial technological superiority is not enough to maintain a trump-level edge - even with the Reapers explicitly controlling the length of every subsequent cycles technological development prior to harvesting - any clever ideas, novel technological approaches, etc are absorbed by the Reapers as they go. Nothing says they don't do a quick upgrade as they cool down from each harvest, finish making new Reapers etc - if one is called for. The initial cycles may have been shorter or more problematic specifically due to unexpected organic brilliance but by now they have it down to a science, they've accounted for every alternate technology, clever new approach, etc long since. They've been doing this for a ''billion'' years.



* Possibly because of the magnitude of the crime, and that no one was really sure how to react or how to deliver an appropriate punishment. Remember, Shepard blew up a relay, which in turn devastated an entire solar system and killed 300.000 batarians. While the Alliance had started coming over to Shepard's conclusion of the Reaper threat at that point, (thanks to Anderson and Hackett, (as far as we know)), the other Council/non-Council races were still on the fence or denying it outright. It is outright stated during the Rachni/Grunt mission in ME3 that it was to keep the batarians placated while the Alliance was preparing for the Reapers. The relay explosion is incomparable to anything else that has happened during the games up to that point, and the most devastating since the Protheans sent a star into a supernova. This is of course discounting the Reapers actions during the cycles.

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* Possibly because of the magnitude of the crime, and that no one was really sure how to react or how to deliver an appropriate punishment. Remember, Shepard blew up a relay, which in turn devastated an entire solar system and killed 300.000 batarians. While the Alliance had started coming over to Shepard's conclusion of the Reaper threat at that point, (thanks to Anderson and Hackett, (as far as we know)), the other Council/non-Council races were still on the fence or denying it outright. It is outright stated during the Rachni/Grunt mission in ME3 ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'' that it was to keep the batarians placated while the Alliance was preparing for the Reapers. The relay explosion is incomparable to anything else that has happened during the games up to that point, and the most devastating since the Protheans sent a star into a supernova. This is of course discounting the Reapers actions during the cycles.
2nd Sep '17 8:14:23 AM HalcyonDayz
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** Also, TIM is a liar. Throughout ME2 he's trying to paint a sympathetic and humane picture of Cerberus, hiding its more bigoted and aggressive side. He might well have defended a genophage cure just to appear an open-minded and prudent leader.

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** Also, TIM is a liar. Throughout ME2 ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' he's trying to paint a sympathetic and humane picture of Cerberus, hiding its more bigoted and aggressive side. He might well have defended a genophage cure just to appear an open-minded and prudent leader.



** And yet, if you sleep with Kaidan in ''VideoGame/MassEffect1'' and get involved with someone else in ME2, he will accuse you of cheating in ME3 -- despite what ''appears'', to this troper, to be a ''very nasty'' breakup initiated by ''him'' in ME2. Liara also gets pretty upset if you cheat on her; if you leave her for someone else, she'll go out of her way to humiliate them in front of you. (E.g., bringing up Tali's Nerve Stim Pro install history during a mission where you're both present.) Not sure about Ashley, but I don't think you're meant to consider these romances as "short term things" in general.

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** And yet, if you sleep with Kaidan in ''VideoGame/MassEffect1'' and get involved with someone else in ME2, ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'', he will accuse you of cheating in ME3 -- despite what ''appears'', to this troper, to be a ''very nasty'' breakup initiated by ''him'' in ME2.''VideoGame/MassEffect2''. Liara also gets pretty upset if you cheat on her; if you leave her for someone else, she'll go out of her way to humiliate them in front of you. (E.g., bringing up Tali's Nerve Stim Pro install history during a mission where you're both present.) Not sure about Ashley, but I don't think you're meant to consider these romances as "short term things" in general.



** Something that bothered me about the Jacob Romance when I did it for the first time in hopes of hearing him get chewed out in ME3 was some of his lines in ME2.

to:

** Something that bothered me about the Jacob Romance when I did it for the first time in hopes of hearing him get chewed out in ME3 was some of his lines in ME2.''VideoGame/MassEffect2''.



** Maybe 'cause FemShep already feels stupid from trying to hit on Tali in ME2 after she says she'd share suits with her.

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** Maybe 'cause FemShep already feels stupid from trying to hit on Tali in ME2 ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' after she says she'd share suits with her.



* If romanced in [=ME=]1, dialogue from Horizon in [=ME=]2 and for most of [=ME=]3 makes it entirely clear that Ashley/Kaidan and Shepard are no longer "together" at that point, so why in the third game do Ashley/Kaidan seriously get angry and accuse Shepard of being "unfaithful" if they got together with someone else in [=ME=]2?... Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since literally everything they say up until that point, and even still after that point (particularly during one scene when they almost deliberately shoot you in the head), pretty much says that the PC is still dead to them and they want, they're totally convinced your some kind of Cerberus sellout or Reaper toadie or whatever, and they want absolutely nothing to do with him/her anymore. They ''do not'' care for him/her anymore. Why would they care in the slightest who the PC dates?

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* If romanced in [=ME=]1, dialogue from Horizon in [=ME=]2 [=ME2=] and for most of [=ME=]3 [=ME3=] makes it entirely clear that Ashley/Kaidan and Shepard are no longer "together" at that point, so why in the third game do Ashley/Kaidan seriously get angry and accuse Shepard of being "unfaithful" if they got together with someone else in [=ME=]2?... Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since literally everything they say up until that point, and even still after that point (particularly during one scene when they almost deliberately shoot you in the head), pretty much says that the PC is still dead to them and they want, they're totally convinced your some kind of Cerberus sellout or Reaper toadie or whatever, and they want absolutely nothing to do with him/her anymore. They ''do not'' care for him/her anymore. Why would they care in the slightest who the PC dates?



** You're just assuming Jack won't stay faithful to the one person she trusts and who hasn't proven he's just interested in sex but wants a real relationship. And maybe she would. But we don't ever find out she did and she certainly didn't enter into a committed and monogamous relationship with someone else like Jacob did. The first game has one unique heterosexual love interest for both genders and Liara for both giving both genders two choices. The second game gives each gender three unique heterosexual love interests as well as three (or, well, two as yo can't have Samara and Morinth as options at the same time) quasi-LIs who don't get you the achievement for both genders. At this point, I'm wondering why all the bi options are women. In the third game, there are five LIs (who, for the most part, carry over from previous games) for men, three for women, and four four either with Kaidan being the one male LI who could be for both genders. In the Citadel DLC there's Javik and Vega for female Shepard and Samara for either. But that's just the DLC. And if you just started playing with ME3, as a female Shepard your only heterosexual LI is Kaidan since Garrus and Thane have to be romanced in ME2 and let's not talk about Jacob. Female Shepard has several homosexual options they can choose from. Similarly, the only homosexual option male Shepard seems to have is Cortez while he has plenty of heterosexual options. And that's not a case of one being lesser than the others but it does mean that if you want to date someone of a certain gender you either get fortunate and have multiple options or you're stuck with one you'd better hope you like if you want any action at all. And whatever you want to call it, it is a problem.

to:

** You're just assuming Jack won't stay faithful to the one person she trusts and who hasn't proven he's just interested in sex but wants a real relationship. And maybe she would. But we don't ever find out she did and she certainly didn't enter into a committed and monogamous relationship with someone else like Jacob did. The first game has one unique heterosexual love interest for both genders and Liara for both giving both genders two choices. The second game gives each gender three unique heterosexual love interests as well as three (or, well, two as yo can't have Samara and Morinth as options at the same time) quasi-LIs who don't get you the achievement for both genders. At this point, I'm wondering why all the bi options are women. In the third game, there are five LIs (who, for the most part, carry over from previous games) for men, three for women, and four four either with Kaidan being the one male LI who could be for both genders. In the Citadel DLC there's Javik and Vega for female Shepard and Samara for either. But that's just the DLC. And if you just started playing with ME3, as a female Shepard your only heterosexual LI is Kaidan since Garrus and Thane have to be romanced in ME2 ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' and let's not talk about Jacob. Female Shepard has several homosexual options they can choose from. Similarly, the only homosexual option male Shepard seems to have is Cortez while he has plenty of heterosexual options. And that's not a case of one being lesser than the others but it does mean that if you want to date someone of a certain gender you either get fortunate and have multiple options or you're stuck with one you'd better hope you like if you want any action at all. And whatever you want to call it, it is a problem.



** The Reapers have access to all the knowledge of every race they harvest (or at least the collective knowledge of the harvested individuals - sufficient for comprehensive knowledge of culture and technology if not every dirty little secret). This is strongly suggested in ME2 and confirmed in ME3 EC. Even if you assume that the leviathans Apex species initial technological superiority is not enough to maintain a trump-level edge - even with the Reapers explicitly controlling the length of every subsequent cycles technological development prior to harvesting - any clever ideas, novel technological approaches, etc are absorbed by the Reapers as they go. Nothing says they don't do a quick upgrade as they cool down from each harvest, finish making new Reapers etc - if one is called for. The initial cycles may have been shorter or more problematic specifically due to unexpected organic brilliance but by now they have it down to a science, they've accounted for every alternate technology, clever new approach, etc long since. They've been doing this for a ''billion'' years.

to:

** The Reapers have access to all the knowledge of every race they harvest (or at least the collective knowledge of the harvested individuals - sufficient for comprehensive knowledge of culture and technology if not every dirty little secret). This is strongly suggested in ME2 ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' and confirmed in ME3 EC. Even if you assume that the leviathans Apex species initial technological superiority is not enough to maintain a trump-level edge - even with the Reapers explicitly controlling the length of every subsequent cycles technological development prior to harvesting - any clever ideas, novel technological approaches, etc are absorbed by the Reapers as they go. Nothing says they don't do a quick upgrade as they cool down from each harvest, finish making new Reapers etc - if one is called for. The initial cycles may have been shorter or more problematic specifically due to unexpected organic brilliance but by now they have it down to a science, they've accounted for every alternate technology, clever new approach, etc long since. They've been doing this for a ''billion'' years.



** It's worth noting that the game uses Turian ships for the enemies, suggesting it's based on a hypothetical turian invasion of Earth during the First Contact War, and thus predating the Reaper invasion.

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** It's worth noting that the game uses Turian turian ships for the enemies, suggesting it's based on a hypothetical turian invasion of Earth during the First Contact War, and thus predating the Reaper invasion.
2nd Sep '17 5:25:49 AM HalcyonDayz
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** And yet, if you sleep with Kaidan in ME1 and get involved with someone else in ME2, he will accuse you of cheating in ME3 -- despite what ''appears'', to this troper, to be a ''very nasty'' breakup intiated by ''him'' in ME2. Liara also gets pretty upset if you cheat on her; if you leave her for someone else, she'll go out of her way to humiliate them in front of you. (E.g., bringing up Tali's Nerve Stim Pro install history during a mission where you're both present.) Not sure about Ashley, but I don't think you're meant to consider these romances as "short term things" in general.

to:

** And yet, if you sleep with Kaidan in ME1 ''VideoGame/MassEffect1'' and get involved with someone else in ME2, he will accuse you of cheating in ME3 -- despite what ''appears'', to this troper, to be a ''very nasty'' breakup intiated initiated by ''him'' in ME2. Liara also gets pretty upset if you cheat on her; if you leave her for someone else, she'll go out of her way to humiliate them in front of you. (E.g., bringing up Tali's Nerve Stim Pro install history during a mission where you're both present.) Not sure about Ashley, but I don't think you're meant to consider these romances as "short term things" in general.



** Kaidan knows about Shepard and Thane if he was romanced in ME1 so it seems plausible, unless someone specifically told him about Shepard and Thane because Shepard clearly wasn't going to and they thought he should know, that he would know about it either way. It's not like it was a secret romance and he joins the crew very shortly after Thane's death so someone on the ship would have been talking about it.

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** Kaidan knows about Shepard and Thane if he was romanced in ME1 ''VideoGame/MassEffect1'' so it seems plausible, unless someone specifically told him about Shepard and Thane because Shepard clearly wasn't going to and they thought he should know, that he would know about it either way. It's not like it was a secret romance and he joins the crew very shortly after Thane's death so someone on the ship would have been talking about it.
2nd Jul '17 10:02:30 PM SkidTroper
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Being drunk doesn't stop you from making decisions, it just clouds your judgement. The problem (and the lengthy discussion above) is due in part to a gender-based double standard against men. The double-standard can be summed up as a combination of the AManIsAlwaysEager and AManIsNotAVirgin tropes. The rest of the problem is the ambiguous scenario. James and Femshep have been playfully flirting for awhile, but they step it up at the party. While both of them have drinks, it's Femshep who's the instigator. If she was trying to get him drunk then that is a form of DateRape. While there is no indicator that Femshep was making James drink, she seems to still take advantage of the opportunity which is seedy. So the final answer depends on the circumstances; from what's seen, the answer is '''no''' with more responsibility placed on Femshep because they '''both''' were drinking.

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** Being drunk doesn't stop you from making decisions, it just clouds your judgement. The problem (and the lengthy discussion above) is due in part to a gender-based double standard against men. The double-standard can be summed up as a combination of the AManIsAlwaysEager and AManIsNotAVirgin tropes. The rest of the problem is the ambiguous scenario. James and Femshep have been playfully flirting for awhile, but they step it up at the party. While both of them have drinks, it's Femshep who's the instigator. If she was trying to get him drunk then that is a form of DateRape. While there is no indicator that Femshep was making James drink, she seems to still take advantage of the opportunity which is seedy. So the final answer depends on the circumstances; from what's seen, the answer is '''no''' with more responsibility placed on Femshep because they '''both''' were drinking.
2nd Jul '17 9:55:34 PM SkidTroper
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** As Vigil explains in the first game, once the Reapers take control of the Citadel, they have total control over the Relay network. The Prothean Empire, and the civilisations of the previous cycles, were defeated -- in part -- because they could no longer make use of the Mass Relays around which their society was built. Reinforcements? Impossible. Communication? Impossible. So why on earth do the Reapers ''allow'' the use of the Relays once they've claimed the Citadel towards the end of the game?

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** As Vigil explains in the first game, once the Reapers take control of the Citadel, they have total control over the Relay network. The Prothean Empire, and the civilisations civilizations of the previous cycles, were defeated -- in part -- because they could no longer make use of the Mass Relays around which their society was built. Reinforcements? Impossible. Communication? Impossible. So why on earth do the Reapers ''allow'' the use of the Relays once they've claimed the Citadel towards the end of the game?



** Theres no indication he's crazy. He has processing power off the charts and the combined knowledge of thousands of civilisations. Either than his logic being bogus(which seems to stem more from bad writing than anything else) there is no indication that he's not doing exactly what he was meant to do, albeit horribly. He doesn't seem to have emotion either (except for the infamous "SO BE IT") he's trying to be logical, but ultimately fails. He says the Reapers are programmed, but the Reapers are complete AI's, even Legion, probably the most advanced Geth, could scarcely comprehend one. He's supposed to be millions(possibly billions) of years old, that should give him ample time to do anything, consider everything, implement whatever he wants. AI's are computers, so they think much faster than an "organic". He would have an eternity to think. However, from practically the beginning of his life he started the cycle, without changing anything. I must stress he IS an AI, he did override his initial programming, which was basically a negotiator and diplomat between organics and synthetics.

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** Theres no indication he's crazy. He has processing power off the charts and the combined knowledge of thousands of civilisations.civilizations. Either than his logic being bogus(which seems to stem more from bad writing than anything else) there is no indication that he's not doing exactly what he was meant to do, albeit horribly. He doesn't seem to have emotion either (except for the infamous "SO BE IT") he's trying to be logical, but ultimately fails. He says the Reapers are programmed, but the Reapers are complete AI's, even Legion, probably the most advanced Geth, could scarcely comprehend one. He's supposed to be millions(possibly billions) of years old, that should give him ample time to do anything, consider everything, implement whatever he wants. AI's are computers, so they think much faster than an "organic". He would have an eternity to think. However, from practically the beginning of his life he started the cycle, without changing anything. I must stress he IS an AI, he did override his initial programming, which was basically a negotiator and diplomat between organics and synthetics.



[[folder: Why does Shepard not realise/question certain things?]]

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[[folder: Why does Shepard not realise/question realize/question certain things?]]



** It's also a one-shot weapon. In-universe it could be something the Reapers made recently and are testing. Given its destructive capabilites and only firing once, it's possible the Reapers intended this to be used by a suicide bomber tactic.



** Jacob is the only person Shepard can romance that she doesn't have significant existing ties with and are emotionally stable. Every other love interest is either someone Shepard already knows well where emotional attachments could grow over time or in a fragile emotional state (Jack and Miranda aren't used to having people they can trust and Thane is dieing so it's only worth the pain if he's serious about it), hell, Tali and Garrus have BOTH. [=ME=]2 only lasts, what, a few weeks, couple months at most? And it was a high stress situation where they were all expecting to die, not something Jacob was expecting to go long-term and Shepard gets taken into custody before he realises he doesn't want to stay with her.
** Something that bothered me about the Jacob Romance when i did it for the first time in hopes of hearing him get chewed out in ME3 was some of his lines in ME2.

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** Jacob is the only person Shepard can romance that she doesn't have significant existing ties with and are emotionally stable. Every other love interest is either someone Shepard already knows well where emotional attachments could grow over time or in a fragile emotional state (Jack and Miranda aren't used to having people they can trust and Thane is dieing dying so it's only worth the pain if he's serious about it), hell, Tali and Garrus have BOTH. [=ME=]2 only lasts, what, a few weeks, couple months at most? And it was a high stress situation where they were all expecting to die, not something Jacob was expecting to go long-term and Shepard gets taken into custody before he realises realizes he doesn't want to stay with her.
** Something that bothered me about the Jacob Romance when i I did it for the first time in hopes of hearing him get chewed out in ME3 was some of his lines in ME2.



** Miranda then explains they need a tech to do that part. But if Jacob's words are considered in his mind Him and probably the rest of the crew were not coming back from the mission. So have sex with Shepard, come to terms with the fact you'll never have a wife and a kid and a house with a picket fence and go complete your mission. You can almost imagine him picturing his funeral and thinking about what might be said as he fights off collectors. But then comes the hitch in his plan. He survives. He survives the impossible. Now for the rest of the game we can consider Jacob to be riding on the "I can't believe i'm alive" cloud and not really thinking about the fact Shepard is his girlfriend. Cut to the normandy being drydocked and Shepard being relieved of duty. Jacob goes to think about things on a beach. He starts picturing scenarios. Shepard being locked up forever, Shepard going off to fight the Reapers, Perhaps he even imagines Shepard actually saving the galaxy. But then comes the hard truth of it. Even if Shepard destroys the Reapers Shepards not going to quit. Regardless of how you play your Shepard just start up ME3 and play right till you get the first dialogue choice. Now imagine that's day to day life. Jacob has no idea what Shepard's going to have to do when the reapers come and the last time he saw her she was being a flirty minx. He's completely unaware she's going to see children die, worlds burn, and friends fall. If Jacob did have a psychic vision of all those events he could hypothesize Shepard might be so weary of death she'd settle down. But Shepard killed Sovereign then let the alliance send her to hunt Geth despite Shepard, Anderson, and Hackett all knowing the Reapers were the real threat. So to Jacob, Shepard is alliance through and through. The best he can hope for is that she'd be willing to take enough time to actually give birth to their child before handing it off to Jacob and making him a stay at home dad while Shepard does more tours. Brynn on the other hand who he meets when he's muddled up is not like shepard. She is more then happy to let Jacob play hero and she'll raise the baby. After all being a scientist she could probably get a lab at home to work from to she could dual duties. Meanwhile if Shepard took her baby with her on adventures... Well we all saw what happened to the first normandy. It makes Brynn the clear favorite in Jacob's eyes. It also doesn't help if Shepard asks about Jacob and Brynn's relationship and then after having all the info choosing to try and seduce him when Brynns in the next room if you chose that option. The real problem is Brynn has absolutely no sympathy for Shepard's side of the story and comes off cold. And with the exception of the Slap in the Citadel DLC it's almost entirely identical to a nonromanced shepard. You can be as cold to Brynn as she is to you and she'll still "save" you from cerberus, still say that she's glad you're on their side, and will still want to name the baby Shepard. The very idea Brynn would suggest naming their child after Jacob's Ex is functionally ridiculous. Add to it how the closest thing you get to anyone sympathizing with Shepard is Joker's post mission comment if you talk to him that he already doesnt like Brynn on Shepard's behalf despite Shepard insisting she's fine about the turn of events. It makes the entire arc look like the Devs just didn't care enough to bother with Jacob any more then they absolutely had to.

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** Miranda then explains they need a tech to do that part. But if Jacob's words are considered in his mind Him mind, him and probably the rest of the crew were not coming back from the mission. So have sex with Shepard, come to terms with the fact you'll never have a wife and a kid and a house with a picket fence and go complete your mission. You can almost imagine him picturing his funeral and thinking about what might be said as he fights off collectors. But then comes the hitch in his plan. He survives. He survives the impossible. Now for the rest of the game we can consider Jacob to be riding on the "I can't believe i'm alive" cloud and not really thinking about the fact Shepard is his girlfriend. Cut to the normandy Normandy being drydocked and Shepard being relieved of duty. Jacob goes to think about things on a beach. He starts picturing scenarios. Shepard being locked up forever, Shepard going off to fight the Reapers, Perhaps he even imagines Shepard actually saving the galaxy. But then comes the hard truth of it. Even if Shepard destroys the Reapers Shepards Shepard's not going to quit. Regardless of how you play your Shepard just start up ME3 and play right till you get the first dialogue choice. Now imagine that's day to day life. Jacob has no idea what Shepard's going to have to do when the reapers come and the last time he saw her she was being a flirty minx. He's completely unaware she's going to see children die, worlds burn, and friends fall. If Jacob did have a psychic vision of all those events he could hypothesize Shepard might be so weary of death she'd settle down. But Shepard killed Sovereign then let the alliance send her to hunt Geth despite Shepard, Anderson, and Hackett all knowing the Reapers were the real threat. So to Jacob, Shepard is alliance through and through. The best he can hope for is that she'd be willing to take enough time to actually give birth to their child before handing it off to Jacob and making him a stay at home dad while Shepard does more tours. Brynn on the other hand who he meets when he's muddled up is not like shepard. She is more then happy to let Jacob play hero and she'll raise the baby. After all being a scientist she could probably get a lab at home to work from to she could dual duties. Meanwhile if Shepard took her baby with her on adventures... Well we all saw what happened to the first normandy. It makes Brynn the clear favorite in Jacob's eyes. It also doesn't help if Shepard asks about Jacob and Brynn's relationship and then after having all the info choosing to try and seduce him when Brynns in the next room if you chose that option. The real problem is Brynn has absolutely no sympathy for Shepard's side of the story and comes off cold. And with the exception of the Slap in the Citadel DLC it's almost entirely identical to a nonromanced shepard. You can be as cold to Brynn as she is to you and she'll still "save" you from cerberus, still say that she's glad you're on their side, and will still want to name the baby Shepard. The very idea Brynn would suggest naming their child after Jacob's Ex is functionally ridiculous. Add to it how the closest thing you get to anyone sympathizing with Shepard is Joker's post mission comment if you talk to him that he already doesnt doesn't like Brynn on Shepard's behalf despite Shepard insisting she's fine about the turn of events. It makes the entire arc look like the Devs just didn't care enough to bother with Jacob any more then they absolutely had to.



** The big question is how the clone or Brooks thought they were really going to convince anyone that was Shepard. They seem personally offended aat all the alien lives Shepard saved so they probably would stop all of that. And if Shepard is paragon it makes it even worse. She goes from ssomeone who cures the genophage and makes peace between the quarians and the geth because it's the right thing to do to someone who would be openly hostile to everyone they need to beg to go save Earth? Yeah, that's not going to fly. Even if people assumed it was really Shepard but she lost her mind, she's getting benched immediately. If the whole point is that they needed a Shepard who was very different than the real Shepard, it's really obvious she won't be allowed to go killing every alien she sees or refusing to use diplomacy with the quarians, geth, asari, whoever.

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** The big question is how the clone or Brooks thought they were really going to convince anyone that was Shepard. They seem personally offended aat at all the alien lives Shepard saved so they probably would stop all of that. And if Shepard is paragon it makes it even worse. She goes from ssomeone who cures the genophage and makes peace between the quarians and the geth because it's the right thing to do to someone who would be openly hostile to everyone they need to beg to go save Earth? Yeah, that's not going to fly. Even if people assumed it was really Shepard but she lost her mind, she's getting benched immediately. If the whole point is that they needed a Shepard who was very different than the real Shepard, it's really obvious she won't be allowed to go killing every alien she sees or refusing to use diplomacy with the quarians, geth, asari, whoever.



** No, it's pretty unlikely the clone could actually replace Shepard. He/she outright says they don't have any of the memories, so the replacement scheme wouldn't stand up to scrutiny. One would simply have to wonder why Shepard seems to have ditched the entire Normandy crew in favour of some random mercs for alarm bells to start going off. It seems unlikely that taking Shepard's place is actually the clone's plan, considering how obvious it would be if it tried. It is possible though that the clone genuinely does think it can, but Brooks, who seems to have been the real mastermind, had other plans once they'd gotten ahold of the Normandy. We never really find out what her long term scheme was.

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** No, it's pretty unlikely the clone could actually replace Shepard. He/she outright says they don't have any of the memories, so the replacement scheme wouldn't stand up to scrutiny. One would simply have to wonder why Shepard seems to have ditched the entire Normandy crew in favour favor of some random mercs for alarm bells to start going off. It seems unlikely that taking Shepard's place is actually the clone's plan, considering how obvious it would be if it tried. It is possible though that the clone genuinely does think it can, but Brooks, who seems to have been the real mastermind, had other plans once they'd gotten ahold of the Normandy. We never really find out what her long term scheme was.


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** One of the benefits of being in the military (in most countries) is they often take care of housing and contribute to health-care costs either partially or fully. The money Anderson saved from not having to worry about those could've gone towards a lavish apartment. That comes before factoring in his income as an officer, money saved from extra perks from being a war hero and the aforementioned money for speaking engagements.


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** The way consent law regarding drinking works, in writing, is paraphrased as follows; "When intoxicated, an individual cannot legally consent to sexual activity." That means, for example (to use a man and a woman);
*** If an intoxicated man and an intoxicated woman have sex, '''neither''' is consenting, so by law either '''neither''' of them are committing sexual assault or '''both''' are.
*** If a man has sex with an intoxicated woman, he is technically committing sexual assault, but may not be actual rape because she can still make decisions.
*** If a woman has sex with an intoxicated man (let's rule out the "whiskey dick" phenomenon, as that doesn't always occur and doesn't rule out some sex acts), she is technically committing sexual assault, but may not be actual rape because he can still make decisions.
Being drunk doesn't stop you from making decisions, it just clouds your judgement. The problem (and the lengthy discussion above) is due in part to a gender-based double standard against men. The double-standard can be summed up as a combination of the AManIsAlwaysEager and AManIsNotAVirgin tropes. The rest of the problem is the ambiguous scenario. James and Femshep have been playfully flirting for awhile, but they step it up at the party. While both of them have drinks, it's Femshep who's the instigator. If she was trying to get him drunk then that is a form of DateRape. While there is no indicator that Femshep was making James drink, she seems to still take advantage of the opportunity which is seedy. So the final answer depends on the circumstances; from what's seen, the answer is '''no''' with more responsibility placed on Femshep because they '''both''' were drinking.
21st Jun '17 2:26:15 AM Zaptech
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** The short answer is that Creator/BioWare did not plan Mass Effect as a trilogy (despite claims otherwise) - Cerberus was explicitly stated to be a former Alliance black ops program in the first game. In the second, they're a quasi-terrorist organisation who have been around for decades. The in-game answer is that their expanded troops come primarily from 'Sanctuary' churning out semi-indoctrinated troops that were then given equipment and sent on ops. They have significant cash resources as shown by the investment in the Normandy and Shepard, as well as their other ops like Overlord. They've also been able to discreetly build a small fleet of mainly cruisers and other small ships. This fleet is squashed easily by the Alliance fleet later in the game as you board the Illusive Man's base. Their ships were enough to give Aria's rag-tag forces problems at Omega, but not to actually pose a threat to an actual military.

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** The short answer is that Creator/BioWare did not plan Mass Effect as a trilogy (despite claims otherwise) - Cerberus was explicitly stated to be a former Alliance black ops program in the first game. In the second, they're a quasi-terrorist organisation who have been around for decades. The in-game answer is that their expanded troops come primarily from 'Sanctuary' churning out semi-indoctrinated troops that were then given equipment and sent on ops. They have significant cash resources as shown by the investment in the Normandy and Shepard, as well as their other ops like Overlord. They've also been able to discreetly build a small fleet of mainly cruisers and other small ships. This fleet is squashed easily by the Alliance fleet later in the game as you board the Illusive Man's base. Their ships were enough to give Aria's rag-tag forces problems at Omega, but not to actually pose a threat to an actual military.
20th Jun '17 8:55:32 AM Piterpicher
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** The short answer is that BioWare did not plan Mass Effect as a trilogy (despite claims otherwise) - Cerberus was explicitly stated to be a former Alliance black ops program in the first game. In the second, they're a quasi-terrorist organisation who have been around for decades. The in-game answer is that their expanded troops come primarily from 'Sanctuary' churning out semi-indoctrinated troops that were then given equipment and sent on ops. They have significant cash resources as shown by the investment in the Normandy and Shepard, as well as their other ops like Overlord. They've also been able to discreetly build a small fleet of mainly cruisers and other small ships. This fleet is squashed easily by the Alliance fleet later in the game as you board the Illusive Man's base. Their ships were enough to give Aria's rag-tag forces problems at Omega, but not to actually pose a threat to an actual military.

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** The short answer is that BioWare Creator/BioWare did not plan Mass Effect as a trilogy (despite claims otherwise) - Cerberus was explicitly stated to be a former Alliance black ops program in the first game. In the second, they're a quasi-terrorist organisation who have been around for decades. The in-game answer is that their expanded troops come primarily from 'Sanctuary' churning out semi-indoctrinated troops that were then given equipment and sent on ops. They have significant cash resources as shown by the investment in the Normandy and Shepard, as well as their other ops like Overlord. They've also been able to discreetly build a small fleet of mainly cruisers and other small ships. This fleet is squashed easily by the Alliance fleet later in the game as you board the Illusive Man's base. Their ships were enough to give Aria's rag-tag forces problems at Omega, but not to actually pose a threat to an actual military.



*** It's a retcon. BioWare just didn't research the previous game's dialogue properly and let someone decide that Banshees were Ardat-Yakshi.

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*** It's a retcon. BioWare Creator/BioWare just didn't research the previous game's dialogue properly and let someone decide that Banshees were Ardat-Yakshi.
5th Jun '17 9:03:50 AM RainbowPhoenix
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** This information may have been in the part of her mind that Benezia shut away when she noticed Sovereign's influence, and she either didn't have time to tell Shepard or she didn't feel s/he could be trusted with that knowledge.
2nd Mar '17 10:04:15 PM Zaptech
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*** That does not change the fact that the Thessia Beacon was extremely well-protected and wouldn't allow an indoctrinated agent to access it.
2nd Mar '17 5:39:14 PM ZShogan
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*** Play the game again, after the mission on Thessia if you go to Liara's room after she confronts Javik, she says "...my mother hid the galaxy's most important archaeological find from me." So yes, Benezia did know about the beacon.
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