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... and you couldn\'t just rewrite the entry yourself /why/? Seriously, just garbage dumping the whole thing because you don\'t like the tone of voice is /rude/. If I hadn\'t been rechecking old posts I\'d never even have known it was gone. What happened to \'fix the entry, don\'t argue with it\'? This feels more like an attempt to suppress information than to refine it. Anyhoo, here\'s the new version you asked for.
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* Why on Earth did even the Ministry of Magic swallow the "Imperius Curse defense?" Pleading coercion is an ''affirmative'' defense - the burden of the proof shifts the ''defendant'' to prove that he was coerced, not for the prosecution to prove that he is not. At minimum, the court should have attempted to examine the defendants before certifying that they were cursed. And remember, ''Dumbledore was on the panel of judges'' (we see this in his pensieve memory of Bellatrix's trial in book 4, so its canon) so we can't say "bribes" (Dumbledore might not always be the wisest wizard, but at least he's an ''honest'' one) and we can't say "lack of ability to tell whether the Imperius curse was really applied or not" (in addition to being the greatest living master of magic in general and mind magic in particular, Dumbledore can ''read minds'', and has proven able to get past memory charms cast by Voldemort himself, witness the case of Morfin Gaunt as recapped in book 6). It just don't add up.
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Whoa, rage. Remember, Headscratchers is for QUESTIONS, not ranting. If you want to voice a plot grievance, word it as a question and do so concisely and calmly.
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* The existence of the goddamn "Imperius Curse defense". While the two most popular fan theories for why that defense flew in court both have lots of support in canon (after all, 'wizards are idiots' and/or 'the Ministry is very bribable' are pretty much self-evident facts), the part where it actually ''worked'' still makes me go "Seriously"? Pleading coercion is an affirmative defense -- that means the burden of proof shifts to the defendant, in that he now has to factually establish that this alleged coercion really happened, and that Lord Voldemort did in fact place them under an Imperius Curse and order them to do all their crimes. Which means Lucius and his butt buddies are hanging in the wind, because of course it ''didn't'' really happen; we all know they're lying about their willing participation in the Death Eaters. The problem lies in the fact that ''Dumbledore was on the panel of judges'' (as seen in his pensieve memories of the trial of Bellatrix Lestrange in book 4), and he is 0% likely to accept bribes from any Death Eaters ''and'' is Wizarding Britain's greatest living expert in mind magic. Unless the court simply took Lucius' word for it without making ''any'' attempt to investigate the facts there is simply no way the defense should have held up in court; with Dumbledore right there on the panel of judges they hardly need to go elsewhere for outside experts, Dumbledore could not possibly miss the part where Lucius and co. weren't actually under the Imperius Curse if he made any mental examination of them at all, and neither would Albus willingly help them cover up their little murder parties. It just don't add up.
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* The existence of the goddamn "Imperius Curse defense". While the two most popular fan theories for why that defense flew in court both have lots of support in canon (after all, 'wizards are idiots' and/or 'the Ministry is very bribable' are pretty much self-evident facts), the part where it actually ''worked'' still makes me go "Seriously"? Pleading coercion is an affirmative defense -- that means the burden of proof shifts to the defendant, in that he now has to factually establish that this alleged coercion really happened, and that Lord Voldemort did in fact place them under an Imperius Curse and order them to do all their crimes. Which means Lucius and his butt buddies are hanging in the wind, because of course it ''didn't'' really happen; we all know they're lying about their willing participation in the Death Eaters. The problem lies in the fact that ''Dumbledore was on the panel of judges'' (as seen in his pensieve memories of the trial of Bellatrix Lestrange in book 4), and he is 0% likely to accept bribes from any Death Eaters ''and'' Wizarding Britain's greatest living expert in mind magic. Unless the court simply took Lucius' word for it without making ''any'' examination of the facts, there is simply no way the defense should have held up in court; with Dumbledore right there on the panel of judges they hardly need to go elsewhere for outside experts, Dumbledore could not possibly miss the part where Lucius and co. weren't actually under the Imperius Curse if he made any mental examination of them at all, and neither would Albus willingly help them cover up their little murder parties. It just don't add up.
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* The existence of the goddamn "Imperius Curse defense". While the two most popular fan theories for why that defense flew in court both have lots of support in canon (after all, 'wizards are idiots' and/or 'the Ministry is very bribable' are pretty much self-evident facts), the part where it actually ''worked'' still makes me go "Seriously"? Pleading coercion is an affirmative defense -- that means the burden of proof shifts to the defendant, in that he now has to factually establish that this alleged coercion really happened, and that Lord Voldemort did in fact place them under an Imperius Curse and order them to do all their crimes. Which means Lucius and his butt buddies are hanging in the wind, because of course it ''didn't'' really happen; we all know they're lying about their willing participation in the Death Eaters. The problem lies in the fact that ''Dumbledore was on the panel of judges'' (as seen in his pensieve memories of the trial of Bellatrix Lestrange in book 4), and he is 0% likely to accept bribes from any Death Eaters ''and'' is Wizarding Britain's greatest living expert in mind magic. Unless the court simply took Lucius' word for it without making ''any'' examination of attempt to investigate the facts, facts there is simply no way the defense should have held up in court; with Dumbledore right there on the panel of judges they hardly need to go elsewhere for outside experts, Dumbledore could not possibly miss the part where Lucius and co. weren't actually under the Imperius Curse if he made any mental examination of them at all, and neither would Albus willingly help them cover up their little murder parties. It just don't add up.
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* The existence of the goddamn "Imperius Curse defense". While the two most popular fan theories for why that defense flew in court both have lots of support in canon (after all, 'wizards are idiots' and/or 'the Ministry is very bribable' are pretty much self-evident facts), the part where it actually ''worked'' still makes me go "Seriously"? Pleading coercion is an affirmative defense -- that means the burden of proof shifts to the defendant, in that he now has to factually establish that this alleged coercion really happened, and that Lord Voldemort did in fact place them under an Imperius Curse and order them to do all their crimes. Which means Lucius and his butt buddies are hanging in the wind, because of course it ''didn't'' really happen; we all know they're lying about their willing participation in the Death Eaters. The problem lies in the fact that ''Dumbledore was on the panel of judges'' (as seen in his pensieve memories of the trial of Bellatrix Lestrange in book 4), and he is 0% likely to accept bribes from any Death Eaters ''and'' Wizarding Britain's greatest living expert in mind magic. Unless the court simply took Lucius' word for it without making ''any'' examination of the facts, there is simply no way the defense should have held up in court; with Dumbledore right there on the panel of judges they hardly need to go elsewhere for outside experts, Dumbledore could not possibly miss the part where Lucius and co. weren't actually under the Imperius Curse if he made any mental examination of them at all, and neither would Albus willingly help them cover up their little murder parties. It just don't add up.
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**** In addition to the reasons in the example above we learn in book 1 that you actually have to command a broomstick in order to use it by shouting UP. I realize we never actually hear them say it again after broom training but that doesn't mean that they aren't thinking it. The same scene also implies that it is very difficult to do as Hermione could barely make it twitch whereas the natural born flyer Harry could master it on his first attempt. A muggle might be able to mess around on one for hours before triggering it.
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***** You know what is written above? A comprehensive summary of the "Muggle Studies" course, taught to the students of Hogwarts by professor Carrow in the year 17 AP (Anno Potter). It is pretty much an elaboration on the briefer summary given by Neville Longbottom: "We’ve all got to listen to her explain how Muggles are like animals, stupid and dirty, and how they drive wizards into hiding by being vicious toward them". I'm not going to argue the accuracy of that viewpoint, for another thing's been bugging me. If this viewpoint is not just propaganda and vilification of non-wizes on part of Death Eaters, if it is not restricted to a few narrow-minded bigots, but it is in fact an adopted and common, if unspoken, outlook of the wizard society in general, then '''what exactly were the Death Eaters WRONG about''', and how was the "good guys" opposing them not hypocritical? If we put aside the superficial cartoonishly-evil appearance, they are simply proactive and are willing to engage the problem directly rather then beat around the bush and shortsightedly hope that the WeirdnessCensor and casual MindRape will stave the confrontation off forever, like the "good guys" do. Sure, their methods are extreme and brutal, but that's to be expected when they are in the minority and the majority, including the authorities stubbornly persists in self-deluded denial of their rightness.
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***** You know what is written above? A comprehensive summary of the "Muggle Studies" course, taught to the students of Hogwarts by professor Carrow in the year 17 AP (Anno Potter). It is pretty much an elaboration on the briefer summary given by Neville Longbottom: "We’ve all got to listen to her explain how Muggles are like animals, stupid and dirty, and how they drive wizards into hiding by being vicious toward them". I'm not going to argue the accuracy of that viewpoint, for another thing's been bugging me. If this viewpoint is not just propaganda and vilification of non-wizes on part of Death Eaters, if it is not restricted to a few narrow-minded bigots, but it is in fact an adopted and common, if unspoken, outlook of the wizard society in general, then '''what exactly were the Death Eaters WRONG about''', and how was the "good guys" opposing them not hypocritical? If we put aside the superficial cartoonishly-evil appearance, they are simply proactive and are willing to engage the problem directly rather then beat around the bush and shortsightedly hope that the WeirdnessCensor and casual MindRape will stave the confrontation off forever, like the "good guys" do. Sure, their methods are extreme and brutal, but that's to be expected when they are in the minority and the majority, including the authorities authorities, stubbornly persists in self-deluded denial of their rightness.
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****** We must've learned different definitions of "dumb, violent animal", because mine does includes things like "performing painful torture and gruesome experiments", or "disemboweling them to consume their innards". You may call it nice PC names like "sober realisation", but that won't change the fact that the supposedly "good" wizards would rather let the non-wiz population be enslaved and slaughtered rather than expose the threat and give them a fighting chance. Which can only mean one thing - in the eyes of even the supposedly "good" wizards the non-wizes were ''worse'' than Voldemort was. So sure, the kids would not like the Carrows' lessons, because they were in such a stark contrast with the lovey-dovey "peace and coexistance" propaganda they'd been fed their entire life by the good grandpa DD and nice Mrs. Burbage, BUT if it turns out it was exactly that - complacent, misguided propaganda, and the adult wizard population ''did'' in fact fear and hate non-wizes, even if is was unspoken, then, I reiterate, '''what exactly were the Death Eaters wrong about''', and why was it wrong for them to oppose the so clearly evil Muggles?
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****** We must've learned different definitions of "dumb, violent animal", because mine does includes things like "performing painful torture and gruesome experiments", or "disemboweling them to consume their innards". You may call it nice PC names like "sober realisation", realization", but that won't change the fact that the supposedly "good" wizards would rather let the non-wiz population be enslaved and slaughtered rather than expose the threat and give them a fighting chance. Which can only mean one thing - in the eyes of even the supposedly "good" wizards the non-wizes were ''worse'' than Voldemort was. So sure, the kids would not like the Carrows' lessons, because they were in such a stark contrast with the lovey-dovey "peace and coexistance" propaganda they'd been fed their entire life by the good grandpa DD and nice Mrs. Burbage, BUT if it turns out it was exactly that - complacent, misguided propaganda, and the adult wizard population ''did'' in fact fear and hate non-wizes, even if is was unspoken, then, I reiterate, '''what exactly were the Death Eaters wrong about''', and why was it wrong for them to oppose the so clearly evil Muggles?Muggles?
** The Death Eaters were wrong because they were genocidal maniacs who believed that anyone with non-magical ancestry should be killed so that the two worlds could be completely separate. Not only were their methods deeply immoral, but also doomed from the start -- the fact that Muggle-borns exist means that if there was no contact between the worlds, the Muggle world would eventually find magic on its own through Muggle-borns and the same problem would happen, only the Muggle could objectively cite the wizards' violent actions and disregard for human life as reasons to fight them. Because the thing is, the Muggle population is a giant sleeping bear, and the Death Eaters' tactics would essentially end up poking them with a stick. The protagonists were presumably reluctant to seek non-magical assistance because they were concerned with the time after victory, in which they believed that a wizarding world without Death Eaters or widespread Muggle knowledge was the best end condition. Besides, the protagonists (and Dumbledore, and J.K. Rowling, I believe) have a higher view of human nature. I suspect that they believe that in the event that magic was exposed, the best defense the wizards could use would be a PR blitz that shows that they are not a threat, combined with some signs of goodwill. Recall that in the very least, the Prime Minister of Britain knows about them, so if the government was going to do something horribly unethical, they'd have started by now. It would take a lot for the non-magical public to support kidnapping and dissecting human beings, but if those beings appear to be both dangerous and homicidal, then the military might be considered justified in such a response. In short, while there would certainly be some Muggles willing to do horrible things to try and exploit wizards (some evil MegaCorps, for example), encouraging them to stay hidden, if they are exposed, it would be better for everyone if the wizarding world was controlled by Harry & co at the time, not Death Eaters.
** The Death Eaters were wrong because they were genocidal maniacs who believed that anyone with non-magical ancestry should be killed so that the two worlds could be completely separate. Not only were their methods deeply immoral, but also doomed from the start -- the fact that Muggle-borns exist means that if there was no contact between the worlds, the Muggle world would eventually find magic on its own through Muggle-borns and the same problem would happen, only the Muggle could objectively cite the wizards' violent actions and disregard for human life as reasons to fight them. Because the thing is, the Muggle population is a giant sleeping bear, and the Death Eaters' tactics would essentially end up poking them with a stick. The protagonists were presumably reluctant to seek non-magical assistance because they were concerned with the time after victory, in which they believed that a wizarding world without Death Eaters or widespread Muggle knowledge was the best end condition. Besides, the protagonists (and Dumbledore, and J.K. Rowling, I believe) have a higher view of human nature. I suspect that they believe that in the event that magic was exposed, the best defense the wizards could use would be a PR blitz that shows that they are not a threat, combined with some signs of goodwill. Recall that in the very least, the Prime Minister of Britain knows about them, so if the government was going to do something horribly unethical, they'd have started by now. It would take a lot for the non-magical public to support kidnapping and dissecting human beings, but if those beings appear to be both dangerous and homicidal, then the military might be considered justified in such a response. In short, while there would certainly be some Muggles willing to do horrible things to try and exploit wizards (some evil MegaCorps, for example), encouraging them to stay hidden, if they are exposed, it would be better for everyone if the wizarding world was controlled by Harry & co at the time, not Death Eaters.
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** Oh it adheres to the principle, [[Series/YesMinister just not the practice]]. As with a lot of Potter-verse stuff it is an exaggeration (and sadly just a mild exaggeration at that) of 1970s and 1980s UK civil service practices. Its a rough takeoff of the Birmingham Six or Guildford Four as well as [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement numerous much more recent unnamed cases]].
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* How is anyone ever convicted of anything in a wizarding court? Confessions can be forced, bewitched, and falsely implanted memories, truth serums can be resisted, witnesses suffer the same problem as confessions, a wizard who commits a crime can just Obliviate himself to prevent the court from drawing a pensieve thread, material evidence (including DNA evidence) can be conjured/transmuted and therefore would be inadmissible in any reasonable court, and photographic evidence apparently doesn't exist around magical acts. Even "reasonable suspicion" is hard to meet with all the ways to get out of being connected to a crime, and given the way the Ministry acts in the books, we know they don't have more reliable methods for prosecuting people than the ones we've seen. Adding that to the fact that defendants are not tried by their peers, but instead can face a completely biased judge (as with most of the trials in the books) and jury, and it seems like the Ministry doesn't adhere to the principle of granting a fair trial.
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****** We must've learned different definitions of "dumb, violent animal", because mine does includes things like "performing painful torture and gruesome experiments", or "disemboweling them to consume their innards". You may call it nice PC names like "sober realisation", but that won't change the fact that the supposedly "good" wizards would rather let the non-wiz population be enslaved and slaughtered rather than expose the threat and give them a fighting chance. Which can only mean one thing - in the eyes of even the supposedly "good" wizards the non-wizes were ''worse'' than Voldemort was. So sure, the kids would not like the Carrows' lessons, because they were in such a stark contrast with the lovey-dovey "peace and coexistance" propaganda they'd been fed their entire life by the good grandpa DD and nice Mrs. Burbage, BUT if it turns out it was exactly that - complacent, misguided propaganda, and the adult wizard population ''did'' in fact fear and hate non-wizes, even if is was unspoken, then, I reiterate, '''what exactly were the Death Eaters wrong about''', and why was it wrong for them to oppose the so clearly evil Muggles?
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*** Presumably anytime the UK PM starts talking about how he is going to clean up Wizarding Britain, the Minister of Magic starts talking about how it is time he started restocking the frog-pond. Then they change the subject and decide stuff like "the time isn't right", "in principle it would be nice, but", "perhaps more more study is needed...", you know the go-to excuses of politicians when their reach exceeds their grasp.
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** I'd chalk it up to a combination of wizard arrogance and the fact that the Prime Minister shouldn't go on TV telling everyone that magic is real, then having nothing to back it up with since the wizards keep him in the dark and get rid of any evidence before (if) they tell him about it.
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**** I would probably learn to if it was my job to know about these things.
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** Knowing when it's appropriate to bend the rules a bit is part of being an effective cop, actually. When do you let a speeder off with a warning, rather than a ticket? How often do you overlook a petty crime like smoking weed in exchange for information the pot-smoker can give you on his dealer? Did the thump you just heard behind the suspect's door ''really'' sound like somebody getting punched, which gives you exigent circumstances to justify busting in, or did they merely drop a book on the coffee table? It's a long way from IncorruptiblePurePureness, but police have to operate in the real world, not an ideal one.
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*** I see this one as the most likely case. The other (magical) societies see Britain as some third-world country having an internal conflict. Like Syria today. No real need to step in unless the country had valuable resources or the conflict went past the borders. It's clearly behind other countries in terms of social development. I mean, France has a half-giant as a headmistress of their premiere school of magic and a part-veela girl as their best representative, while Britain's still has plenty of racism against full-blooded humans.
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*** I see this one as the most likely case. The other (magical) societies see Britain as some third-world country having an internal conflict. Like Syria today. No real need to step in unless the country had valuable resources or the conflict went past the borders. It's clearly behind other countries in terms of social development. I mean, France has a half-giant as a headmistress of their premiere school of magic and a part-veela girl as their best representative, while Britain's Britain still has plenty of racism against full-blooded humans.humans. Mixed-race people wouldn't have a chance.
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** Maybe the other countries don't have a pureblood supremacy movement, and Britain is the backwards one in this case.
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** Maybe the other countries don't have a pureblood supremacy movement, and Britain is the backwards one in backwards, underdeveloped country that's having a civil war.
*** I see thiscase.one as the most likely case. The other (magical) societies see Britain as some third-world country having an internal conflict. Like Syria today. No real need to step in unless the country had valuable resources or the conflict went past the borders. It's clearly behind other countries in terms of social development. I mean, France has a half-giant as a headmistress of their premiere school of magic and a part-veela girl as their best representative, while Britain's still has plenty of racism against full-blooded humans.
*** I see this
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For a specific book, please go to their specific page:
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For a specific book, please go to their its specific page:
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''Franchise/HarryPotter'' [[Headscratchers/HarryPotter headscratchers]] relating to the wizarding world and its government. Please add new entries at the bottom.
Things relating to the Harry Potter universe in general go in Headscratchers/HarryPotterUniverse. Stuff that doesn't fit anywhere can go in Headscratchers/HarryPotterOther. For a specific book, please go to their specific page:
Things relating to the Harry Potter universe in general go in Headscratchers/HarryPotterUniverse. Stuff that doesn't fit anywhere can go in Headscratchers/HarryPotterOther. For a specific book, please go to their specific page:
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*** What's all this tangental talk about execution for perjury? The fact of the matter is, wizards have so many ways to verify a suspect's innocence that they never, ever use. What they should be doing is using several of these techniques in tandem and develop standard procedures for mitigating resistance to them (sedating the subject before administering the potion for instance). Seriously, they have Veritaserum. Pensieve. ''Legilimency''. Yeah, that's right. Wizards can read each other's ''fucking'' minds, but they still rely solely on witness testimony and circumstantial evidence to convict what appears to be an uncomfortably high amount of innocent people to be sent to a prison that effectively constitutes a living hell. The victims don't even have the option of requesting that those techniques be used on them if they have been "proven" guilty by a dry trial. Now, this may say more about Fudge running an insanely corrupt judical system than it does about the wizarding world, but it's not difficult to notice that there are gaping flaws in the trial system presented to us throughout the course of the series.
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*** What's all this tangental tangential talk about execution for perjury? The fact of the matter is, wizards have so many ways to verify a suspect's innocence that they never, ever use. What they should be doing is using several of these techniques in tandem and develop standard procedures for mitigating resistance to them (sedating the subject before administering the potion for instance). Seriously, they have Veritaserum. Pensieve. ''Legilimency''. Yeah, that's right. Wizards can read each other's ''fucking'' minds, but they still rely solely on witness testimony and circumstantial evidence to convict what appears to be an uncomfortably high amount of innocent people to be sent to a prison that effectively constitutes a living hell. The victims don't even have the option of requesting that those techniques be used on them if they have been "proven" guilty by a dry trial. Now, this may say more about Fudge running an insanely corrupt judical judicial system than it does about the wizarding world, but it's not difficult to notice that there are gaping flaws in the trial system presented to us throughout the course of the series.series.
**** Well, it IS insanely corrupt; according to [[http://web.archive.org/web/20110623034520/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view.cfm?id=105 Word of God]], Crouch Sr. was becoming increasingly unreasonable and power-mad during the trial and never even gave Sirius the chance to testify under Veritaserum before throwing him into Azkaban. Even if he had testified, there are so many ways to block both Veritaserum and Legilimency that even a teenager could perform if learned enough (there's a reason Harry was being taught Occlumency in HBP) that the prosecution could simply declare that trickery was involved and reject the usage if it didn't suit their desires. And this is no mistake on Rowling's part: large parts of the latter half of the series are dedicated to demonstrating how the Ministry of Magic is corrupt, bloated, and filled with self-serving pricks.
**** Well, it IS insanely corrupt; according to [[http://web.archive.org/web/20110623034520/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view.cfm?id=105 Word of God]], Crouch Sr. was becoming increasingly unreasonable and power-mad during the trial and never even gave Sirius the chance to testify under Veritaserum before throwing him into Azkaban. Even if he had testified, there are so many ways to block both Veritaserum and Legilimency that even a teenager could perform if learned enough (there's a reason Harry was being taught Occlumency in HBP) that the prosecution could simply declare that trickery was involved and reject the usage if it didn't suit their desires. And this is no mistake on Rowling's part: large parts of the latter half of the series are dedicated to demonstrating how the Ministry of Magic is corrupt, bloated, and filled with self-serving pricks.
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*** "...highly immoral" as opposed to feeding them to soul-eating demons who would basically do the same thing - wipe out their memories and identities, except slowly and in the most excruciatingly torturous way possible, leading to madness and death? "...they both view Muggles with disdain and a sort of racism" - so much for "sober realizations about human behavior" then, isn't it?
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***** You know what is written above? A comprehensive summary of the "Muggle Studies" course, taught to the students of Hogwarts by professor Carrow in the year 17 AP (Anno Potter). It is pretty much an elaboration on the briefer summary given by Neville Longbottom: "We’ve all got to listen to her explain how Muggles are like animals, stupid and dirty, and how they drive wizards into hiding by being vicious toward them". I'm not going to argue the accuracy of that viewpoint, for another thing's been bugging me. If this viewpoint is not just propaganda and villification of non-wizes on part of Death Eaters, if it is not restricted to a few narrow-minded bigots, but it is in fact an adopted and common, if unspoken, outlook of the wizard society in general, then '''what exactly were the Death Eaters WRONG about''', and how was the "good guys" opposing them not hypocrytical? If we put aside the superficial cartoonishly-evil appearence, they are simply proactive and are willing to engage the problem directly rather then beat around the bush and short-sightedly hope that the WeirdnessCensor and casual MindRape will stave the confrontation off forever, like the "good guys" do. Sure, their methods are extreme and brutal, but that's to be expected when they are in the minority and the majority, including the authorities stubbornly persists in self-deluded denial of their rightness.
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***** You know what is written above? A comprehensive summary of the "Muggle Studies" course, taught to the students of Hogwarts by professor Carrow in the year 17 AP (Anno Potter). It is pretty much an elaboration on the briefer summary given by Neville Longbottom: "We’ve all got to listen to her explain how Muggles are like animals, stupid and dirty, and how they drive wizards into hiding by being vicious toward them". I'm not going to argue the accuracy of that viewpoint, for another thing's been bugging me. If this viewpoint is not just propaganda and villification vilification of non-wizes on part of Death Eaters, if it is not restricted to a few narrow-minded bigots, but it is in fact an adopted and common, if unspoken, outlook of the wizard society in general, then '''what exactly were the Death Eaters WRONG about''', and how was the "good guys" opposing them not hypocrytical? hypocritical? If we put aside the superficial cartoonishly-evil appearence, appearance, they are simply proactive and are willing to engage the problem directly rather then beat around the bush and short-sightedly shortsightedly hope that the WeirdnessCensor and casual MindRape will stave the confrontation off forever, like the "good guys" do. Sure, their methods are extreme and brutal, but that's to be expected when they are in the minority and the majority, including the authorities stubbornly persists in self-deluded denial of their rightness.rightness.
***** There's a difference between sober realizations about human behavior and teaching kids that Muggles are dumb, violent animals. Many of us in real life acknowledge the flaws of humanity and its ability to perform terrible deeds with ease, but we usually don't wax lyrical about how we're all just monsters who deserve to die for our inherent faults. Wizardkind can acknowledge the reasons why Muggle and Magical society are not understanding enough to be mixed yet, but that doesn't mean that a class teaching magical children to fear and hate Muggles is going to go over well any more than a real world class about the horrors of humanity would.
***** There's a difference between sober realizations about human behavior and teaching kids that Muggles are dumb, violent animals. Many of us in real life acknowledge the flaws of humanity and its ability to perform terrible deeds with ease, but we usually don't wax lyrical about how we're all just monsters who deserve to die for our inherent faults. Wizardkind can acknowledge the reasons why Muggle and Magical society are not understanding enough to be mixed yet, but that doesn't mean that a class teaching magical children to fear and hate Muggles is going to go over well any more than a real world class about the horrors of humanity would.
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* Something that's always kinda bugged me about the wizarding world and their government is just how wildly, shamelessly corrupt it all is, even among the "good guys". The example that always sticks out in my mind is how Mr. Weasley is so awesome and cool to Harry and company for acquiring prime tickets for the quidditch world cup by throwing his weight around to get criminal activities of his friends in the ministry dismissed or swept under the rug. Meanwhile, Lucius Malfoy acquires similar tickets by throwing a fat stack of cash at a hospital, causing Harry and friends to act like he's a walking embodiment of corruption and crooked dealings. While greasing the wheels by throwing money around at popular charities is definitely underhanded, it's nowhere near as bad as helping your coworker's criminal relatives get off the hook in exchange for goodies and kickbacks.
* Why don't the wizards simply erase the memories of the captured Death Eaters? One "Obliviato" and BAM, DE is no longer a threat, you can now put new memories instead and turn them into a model citizen and make them pay for their misdeads by serving the society they wronged (yes, I stole the idea from ''BabylonFive'').
* Why don't the wizards simply erase the memories of the captured Death Eaters? One "Obliviato" and BAM, DE is no longer a threat, you can now put new memories instead and turn them into a model citizen and make them pay for their misdeads by serving the society they wronged (yes, I stole the idea from ''BabylonFive'').
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* Something that's always kinda bugged me about the wizarding world and their government is just how wildly, shamelessly corrupt it all is, even among the "good guys". The example that always sticks out in my mind is how Mr. Weasley is so awesome and cool to Harry and company for acquiring prime tickets for the quidditch Quidditch world cup by throwing his weight around to get criminal activities of his friends in the ministry dismissed or swept under the rug. Meanwhile, Lucius Malfoy acquires similar tickets by throwing a fat stack of cash at a hospital, causing Harry and friends to act like he's a walking embodiment of corruption and crooked dealings. While greasing the wheels by throwing money around at popular charities is definitely underhanded, it's nowhere near as bad as helping your coworker's criminal relatives get off the hook in exchange for goodies and kickbacks.
* Why don't the wizards simply erase the memories of the captured Death Eaters? One "Obliviato" and BAM, DE is no longer a threat, you can now put new memories instead and turn them into a model citizen and make them pay for theirmisdeads misdeeds by serving the society they wronged (yes, I stole the idea from ''BabylonFive'').''BabylonFive'').
** They might view such brainwashing as highly immoral (considering that the Imperius curse is one of the Unforgivable Curses and similarly involves mind manipulation). They perform it on Muggles regularly, but that's because they both view Muggles with disdain and a sort of racism and they find it more important to maintain secrecy than to have moral quibbles over memory wiping.
* Why don't the wizards simply erase the memories of the captured Death Eaters? One "Obliviato" and BAM, DE is no longer a threat, you can now put new memories instead and turn them into a model citizen and make them pay for their
** They might view such brainwashing as highly immoral (considering that the Imperius curse is one of the Unforgivable Curses and similarly involves mind manipulation). They perform it on Muggles regularly, but that's because they both view Muggles with disdain and a sort of racism and they find it more important to maintain secrecy than to have moral quibbles over memory wiping.
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*** Many magical universes feature some version of a "don't notice me" spell that can be cast on people or places. Why not an equivalent that can be cast such that any official record made of the person to be hidden is there on paper or in the computer all right, but every time someone reads it the reader's eyes just end up passing over it to the next name? It would actually be better concealment to have the records present in the normal way but repelling attention than to have them absent, which might draw the attention of police, social services or immigration authorities. So yes, Ron Weasley's birth was registered in the usual way. He has a National Insurance number. But somehow people don't see his name as interesting in any search of the records. This could be a sort of reverse version of the way that mentioning Voldemort is widely believed to attract his attention; no wonder most wizards are so scared of saying Voldemort's name when most of them have relied their whole lives on a spell whereby saying or reading their name makes the person saying or reading it ''lose'' interest!
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*** Many magical universes feature some version of a "don't notice me" spell that can be cast on people or places. Why not an equivalent that can be cast such that any official record made of the person you want to be hidden hide is never noticed? The record is there on paper or in the computer all right, but every time someone reads it it, the reader's eyes just end up passing over it to the next name? name. It would actually be better concealment to have the records present in the normal way but repelling attention than to have them absent, which might draw the attention of police, social services or immigration authorities. So yes, Ron Weasley's birth was registered in the usual way. He has a National Insurance number. But somehow people don't see his name as interesting in any search of the records. This could be a sort of reverse version of the way that mentioning Voldemort is widely believed to attract his attention; no wonder most wizards are so scared of saying Voldemort's name when most of them have relied their whole lives on a spell whereby saying or reading their name makes the person saying or reading it ''lose'' interest!
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*** Many magical universes feature some version of a "don't notice me" spell that can be cast on people or places. Why not an equivalent that can be cast such that any official record made of the person to be hidden is there all right but every time someone reads it the reader's eyes just end up passing over it to the next name? It would actually be better concealment to have the records present in the normal way but repelling attention than to have them absent, which might draw the attention of police, social services or immigration authorities. So yes, Ron Weasley's birth was registered in the usual way. He has a National Insurance number. But somehow people don't see his name as interesting in any search of the records. This could be a sort of reverse version of the way that mentioning Voldemort is widely believed to attract his attention; no wonder most wizards are so scared of saying Voldemort's name wjem most of them have relied their whole lives on a spell whereby saying or reading their name makes the person saying or reading it ''lose'' interest!
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*** Many magical universes feature some version of a "don't notice me" spell that can be cast on people or places. Why not an equivalent that can be cast such that any official record made of the person to be hidden is there on paper or in the computer all right right, but every time someone reads it the reader's eyes just end up passing over it to the next name? It would actually be better concealment to have the records present in the normal way but repelling attention than to have them absent, which might draw the attention of police, social services or immigration authorities. So yes, Ron Weasley's birth was registered in the usual way. He has a National Insurance number. But somehow people don't see his name as interesting in any search of the records. This could be a sort of reverse version of the way that mentioning Voldemort is widely believed to attract his attention; no wonder most wizards are so scared of saying Voldemort's name wjem when most of them have relied their whole lives on a spell whereby saying or reading their name makes the person saying or reading it ''lose'' interest!
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***Many magical universes feature some version of a "don't notice me" spell that can be cast on people or places. Why not an equivalent that can be cast such that any official record made of the person to be hidden is there all right but every time someone reads it the reader's eyes just end up passing over it to the next name? It would actually be better concealment to have the records present in the normal way but repelling attention than to have them absent, which might draw the attention of police, social services or immigration authorities. So yes, Ron Weasley's birth was registered in the usual way. He has a National Insurance number. But somehow people don't see his name as interesting in any search of the records. This could be a sort of reverse version of the way that mentioning Voldemort is widely believed to attract his attention; no wonder most wizards are so scared of saying Voldemort's name wjem most of them have relied their whole lives on a spell whereby saying or reading their name makes the person saying or reading it ''lose'' interest!
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* Why don't the wizards simply erase the memories of the captured Death Eaters? One "Obliviato" and BAM, DE is no longer a threat, you can now put new memories instead and turn them into a model citizen and make them pay for their misdeads by serving the society they wronged (yes, I stole the idea from ''BabylonFive'').
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*Something that's always kinda bugged me about the wizarding world and their government is just how wildly, shamelessly corrupt it all is, even among the "good guys". The example that always sticks out in my mind is how Mr. Weasley is so awesome and cool to Harry and company for acquiring prime tickets for the quidditch world cup by throwing his weight around to get criminal activities of his friends in the ministry dismissed or swept under the rug. Meanwhile, Lucius Malfoy acquires similar tickets by throwing a fat stack of cash at a hospital, causing Harry and friends to act like he's a walking embodiment of corruption and crooked dealings. While greasing the wheels by throwing money around at popular charities is definitely underhanded, it's nowhere near as bad as helping your coworker's criminal relatives get off the hook in exchange for goodies and kickbacks.
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* Okay, here's something that really bothers me. The wizarding world seems to have no semblance of a military. I mean, sure, there's the Aurors and Order of the Phoenix, but they seem more like police/intelligence, so there's really no military. Also, Rowling said herself that a human with a shotgun would win every time over a wizard with a wand. Doesn't this seem like it would put the "Muggle sympathizers" in the story at a distinct 'advantage' to Voldemort, or at least his cronies? Sure, fewer people in Britain have guns than in the US, but they're not impossible to get, killing curses could be defended against with simple riot shields[[hottip:*:although a given riot shield would probably only work once]], etc. Also, considering that the wizarding world is run by the "Ministry of Magic," and assuming that all wizards are still loyal to Britain, wouldn't the fact that one of their ministers had been 'deposed' by some magic Hitler-wannabe set off a bunch of red flags for the British government? Forget Britain's allies turning a blind eye. The British Military could have, and should have, handled this instead of forcing it on a 17-year-old, even if he is a wizard.
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* Okay, here's something that really bothers me. The wizarding world seems to have no semblance of a military. I mean, sure, there's the Aurors and Order of the Phoenix, but they seem more like police/intelligence, so there's really no military. Also, Rowling said herself that a human with a shotgun would win every time over a wizard with a wand. Doesn't this seem like it would put the "Muggle sympathizers" in the story at a distinct 'advantage' to Voldemort, or at least his cronies? Sure, fewer people in Britain have guns than in the US, but they're not impossible to get, killing curses could be defended against with simple riot shields[[hottip:*:although shields[[note]]although a given riot shield would probably only work once]], once[[/note]], etc. Also, considering that the wizarding world is run by the "Ministry of Magic," and assuming that all wizards are still loyal to Britain, wouldn't the fact that one of their ministers had been 'deposed' by some magic Hitler-wannabe set off a bunch of red flags for the British government? Forget Britain's allies turning a blind eye. The British Military could have, and should have, handled this instead of forcing it on a 17-year-old, even if he is a wizard.
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* Why in the world does the Muggle government NEVER interfere with the Wizarding government in Britain, ever? Why do the only times the Prime Minister has any fucking idea of what's going on in Wizarding Britain when Fudge tells him about the Ministry importing dragons or something like that? And why does the Prime Minister get the "privilege" of being the only Muggle who is told about magic who doesn't have a magical child? We've seen 7 books of dangerous practices at the largest and most well-known Wizarding school, discrimination against Muggle-borns and anyone who likes Muggles, fucking '''terrorists''' attacking Muggles throughout the last 4 books, people being thrown into a HellholePrison ''without a trial'', the creatures running said prison eventually escaping and wreaking havoc on the entire country. The wizards are still British citizens, correct? Are they not subject to the same rights and protections as British Muggles? Is the Ministry of Magic's secrecy also the reason that Wizarding Britain has so little contact with other magical nations? Did wizards just stop mingling with Muggles altogether in the Victorian era or something? It boggles my mind that the Muggle Prime Minister is so ignorant of what's going on in his own country and ''even his own bloody staff!''
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*** What's all this tangental talk about execution for perjury? The fact of the matter is, wizards have so many ways to verify a suspect's innocence that they never, ever use. What they should be doing is using several of these techniques in tandem and develop standard procedures for mitigating resistance to them (sedating the subject before administering the potion for instance). Seriously, they have Veritaserum. Pensieve. ''Legilimency''. Yeah, that's right. Wizards can read each other's ''fucking'' minds, but they still rely solely on witness testimony and circumstantial evidence to convict what appears to be an uncomfortably high amount of innocent people to be sent to a prison that effectively constitutes a living hell. The victims don't even have the option of requesting that those techniques be used on them if they have been "proven" guilty by a dry trial. Now, this may say more about Fudge running an insanely corrupt judical system than it does about the wizarding world, but it's not difficult to notice that there are gaping flaws in the trial system presented to us throughout the course of the series.
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''Franchise/HarryPotter'' [[Headscratchers/HarryPotter headscratchers]] relating to the wizarding world and its government. Please add new entries at the bottom.
Things relating to the Harry Potter universe in general go in Headscratchers/HarryPotterUniverse. Stuff that doesn't fit anywhere can go in Headscratchers/HarryPotterOther. For a specific book, please go to their specific page:
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndThePhilosophersStone
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndTheChamberOfSecrets
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndThePrisonerOfAzkaban
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndTheHalfBloodPrince
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndTheDeathlyHallows
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* What exactly constitutes a 'misuse of Muggle artifacts'? Enchanted brooms seem to be okay, because it is tradition, yet flying carpets are forbidden because carpets are Muggle artifacts. Ministry cars are enchanted to be TARDIS-like, but that's okay, and the Knight bus is a freakin' purple triple-decker bus that zigzags through streets full of Muggle cars, but that seems to be okay, too. On the other hand, Mr. Weasley faced an inquiry because of his enchanted Ford Anglia. So, somehow it seems to be a bit random what 'Muggle artifact' can be legally enchanted, and when such an enchantment becomes illegal. The only explanation this Troper could come up so far is 'politics'.
** Mr. Weasley got in trouble more because of the fact that his car was spotted ''flying'' by several Muggles. If he'd enchanted it to only do the things the other Ministry cars can do, there probably would have been no inquiry at all. It seems to be more along the lines of protecting the statute of secrecy than politics. The flying carpets being outlawed in England seem more a precaution than anything else. They might be more noticeable and people would have a lot less reason to have one in their possession as brooms are necessary for Quidditch and used less often for transportation.
** Arthur's car had a '''defective''' invisible spell and was seen by a dozen Humans. Ministry sent out a squad of Aurors to mind-rape (Obliviate) the Witnesses. Arthur was fined G50, I assume G20 paid for the clean-up squad and G30 was punishment. When the Twins used the car to rescue Harry, the invisible spell worked and there was no punishment.
** Crouch makes a big deal that his family used a carpet '''before''' the ban. I assume that carpets had an efficient invisible spell and the ban was political/economic.
** Muggles ''have'' invented flying cars. We just realized that they were an incredibly dumb idea because they used up ''huge'' amounts of gasoline, and then crashed once they ran out. Needless to say, we stopped producing them. Why wouldn't the people who saw Arthur's car flying just assume it was some idiot trying to revive that concept?
*** They'd probably notice a flying car without wings or any propulsion.
** Broomstick riders can use disillusionment charms so that the flyers can not be seen by Muggles. They could do the same thing with carpets.
** Also, permits. The Ministry knows that it has some flying cars, and the bus is probably registered. Nobody knew that Mr. Weasley had enchanted a car in such a way. About flying carpets, I think they're legal.
*** Flying carpets are illegal. There is a conversation between Arthur Weasley, Barty Crouch Sr., and Ludo Bagman in book four where they talk about the ban. It seems to be a political thing, though. They're banning the import of flying carpets from Asia, while British made brooms are perfectly legal. Okay, Crouch mentions a "12-seater Axminster", which is a British carpet, but all together, it sounds like a conspiracy along the lines of "the oil industry is holding back electric cars". Perhaps the Quibbler should do some articles on the subject.
**** Um. This troper doesn't think flying carpets are illegal. IMPORTING them is. Perhaps Britain wants to keep a monopoly?
***** Flying carpets are illegal in Britain. Crouch's mention of an Axminster is followed immediately by the assurance that "it was before they were banned, of course." It's a Misuse of Muggle Artifacts issue, not a monopoly issue.
***** And in what way are brooms different from carpets? Both can be found in any given Muggle household, so classifying one as a Muggle artifact whose enchantment is illegal and the other as a legal magic object sounds a bit odd.
****** Muggle brooms don't come with footholds, aerodynamically cut twigs, and names inscribed on the end. It would be pretty easy to tell the difference between a ''sweeping'' broom and a ''flying'' broom.
***** I reckon it's a subtle hint at racism within the wizarding world - "oh, they're Asian/Middle-Eastern, you can't trust them." Replace "flying carpet" with "burqa" and the metaphor might make sense.
** Inconsistency in government regulation is TruthInTelevision. Example: Drugs. Marijuana is illegal in all 50 American states (edit: well, not any more), yet alcohol and tobacco are not. Another example: This troper once read an article about a UK law that would ban beer over a certain alcohol content, yet that content was actually lower than the alcohol content of absinthe, which is not banned in Britain.
** Flying carpets aren't traditional in Britain the way that they are in Arabia or the way that flying brooms are in Britain. Therefore, they can be banned without a general uprorar.
** This troper believes that the issue of carpets and brooms is trackability. Broomsticks and ordinary brooms look very distinctive, and to a wizard eye, it is easy to spot the difference. Carpets, on the other hand, are not as easy to tell apart if they are enchanted. Just a thought.
*** Also, if a flying carpet were to accidentally fall into Muggle hands, there's a fair chance that some ignorant non-wizard will be standing on top of one, not realizing it isn't a normal piece of floor covering, and mistakenly activate it. No Muggle is likely to ''try'' to ride a broomstick, save perhaps when they're goofing around at Halloween, so there's much less chance of some unsuspecting soul accidentally being carried into the stratosphere.
*** Personally, if it were up to me, I would enchant a snowboard and get a personal hoverboard.
** With the advancements in Muggle technology, perhaps the straw and staff broom has being supplanted in the Muggle world by vacuums and more effective brooms. This would leave the for-flying-only brooms as something that isn't of the Muggle world anymore.
** On top pf the general politics, it may be excused with safety concerns. With the broom, you pretty much have to hold on, but with a carpet there is really nothing to hold on to. Maybe there were handles or something, but there is no way of knowing. And of course, it is likely that the foreign carpets were judged more harshly then the traditional brooms on that matter.
** Political arguments are a bitch. Even the most sensible Muggle governments have inconsistencies and can get into fights over minutiae, and the Ministry isn't shown as being especially sensible or even intelligent.
* Not really something that bugs me, but something I kept thinking about: The books take place in the nineties, but now it is 2010 and [[TechnologyMarchesOn the world has changed a little bit]]. Cities like London are riddled with [=CCTV=] surveillance cameras, and Joe Average carries a cellphone that can not only take pictures and videos, but also post them on the internet in a matter of seconds. On the other hand, we have seen wizards depicted as being utterly ignorant to the most basic muggle inventions. Put those two factors together and wizards will have a really hard time to uphold TheMasquerade. Or are there plausible ways to prevent that?
** While there may be ways to prevent that, like having wizards working for various technology groups to put memory charms in the devices, it would also be beyond most wizards to maintain this level of technological intelligence combined with memory charms. In all honesty, something would have happened by today where some dark wizard attacking a town would have been caught on camera and posted on the internet before any government (magic or Muggle) could stop the leak and break TheMasquerade. I saw a fanfic where such a thing happened in Argentina and Harry was a primary diplomat between the two worlds and helped them ease into living with the societies together (that, and Quidditch got even bigger).
** The epilogue doesn't mention anything unusual, so we can probably assume that they managed to keep it secret until at least 2017. Given their numbers, capabilities, and intelligence of Muggle society, that is nothing short of a miracle; the masquerade is definitely living on borrowed time.
** A) Disillusionment charm. B) Most wizards seem to avoid Muggle population centers whenever they can. (Was it ever said in Deathly Hallows whether Voldemort and his followers were openly attacking Muggles?)
*** Presumably, someone could devise a spell to render a given closed-circuit camera blind to magical phenomena and creatures. Agents of the Ministry can cast it on any cameras within range of nexuses like the Leaky Cauldron or the train station, and the Muggles who view the feed would never know they're missing things.
** But there's still an incredible amount of possible scenarios by which the masquerade could be broken. It just doesn't make any sense for it to have survived this long.
** Memory Charms. People on the inside (such as Kingsley a la Half-Blood Prince). Muggleborns and half-bloods that are savvy to the Muggle world. I think a lot of the bases are covered.
** It's also pointed out several times that magic screws with technology. Those cameras might simply not work to see wizards or record them in a meaningful way. Besides, if anything would break that masquerade, it's the Knight Bus banging all over England making ''buildings'' jump out of the way. If that didn't do it, some kid's Nokia cell won't.
** Maybe one of the reasons so many quickly-debunked "supernatural" viral videos circulate on the Internet is that Squibs are planting them online, to keep people skeptical about the ''real'' sightings when they happen...
** What I would want to know in relation to this is how Hogwards deals with all the pissed 11 year old muggleborns who are suddenly stranded without their cellphones and thus can't mail their friends and family on a regular basis anymore. Or are unable to use computers for google and stuff. For kids who grew up in the quick-paced, technology centred world we live in today, the wizarding world would be frustratingly slow...
*** I think the vast majority of them would be so awed by the fact they are ''learning actual factual magic'' that they wouldn't be much bothered by the lack of cell phones and internet access. And the few who would complain would be slapped down by the rest. "Dude, shut up! You keep complaining about your stupid cell phone and we're going to get thrown out of class ''and I don't want to miss the lesson on how to turn someone into a newt!'' So cut that shit out!"
** On the subject of the sudden proliferation of cameras, keep in mind that it didn't happen instantly. Just 20 years ago, it was unthinkable for virtually every single person you meet on the street in even a small town to have a pocket device capable of uploading photos and videos to a worldwide network within seconds. Even 10 years ago, many people didn't have phones that could capture anything but a tiny, low-resolution image and it was common for them to have phones that couldn't take pictures at ALL. The magical word is a hell of a lot more than 20 years behind the trend, especially given how insular they are (even Muggleborn children tend to spend the majority of the year in a 100% magical community thanks to schooling), so they probably just never even considered the proliferation until problems started to hit them.\\
That said, it's not hard for both magic and human nature to counter technology. Large amounts of magic already puts it on the fritz, so any cameras near Diagon Alley would probably be suffering from glitches and any magical activity caught on them could be handwaved as another error (which could be done on a lesser scale with cameras away from magical hotspots). Making someone forget occurrences takes a few seconds and a simple spell that a teenager can perform. And, most importantly, humans have a WeirdnessCensor. Muggles not only don't believe in magic, but they really ''can't'' believe in it because of how long they're told that there's no such thing as magic. Unless a person is very gullible or mentally ill (or the occurrence is so bafflingly alien that it CAN'T be justified or handwaved away), their first response to seeing what appears to be a person flying on a broom or someone firing a jet of green light at a guy across the street is to start thinking of completely normal explanations, if only so they don't sound silly or high when recounting the tale. The proliferation of image editors means that any photos or videos can and will be called out as hoaxes. The only occurrence that would actually causes a complete break in TheMasquerade would be one that is witnessed live (not on a video or simply an urban legend spread around) by a very large amount of people, extremely obvious, and has no sensible justification. It would take something on par with a magical battle between Aurors and Death Eaters in the middle of Times Square that causes huge amounts of property damage to have an incident that completely runs out of justifications.
* This is related to the wizard world bubble above. I can kind of understand them not wanting to do much with Muggles (the oldest wizards probably had grandparents who the Muggles tried to burn as witches), although it still seems very odd. What is even worse is that the wizards form their own bubble within the magical world, and English wizards form one within that. House Elves, for an example, would be more powerful then wizards if they had a wand. Yet no one seems to actually use them for the purpose of fighting. Centaurs will have as much to suffer under Voldemort as anyone, yet don't do anything until the last battle (for that matter, why don't centaurs interact with Muggles?). Apparently, the order of the Phoenix can't call upon any foreign powers for assistance. The wizarding population doesn't even consider the needs of giants and Dementors (they do care enough to stop Muggles from employing giants). And from what I understand, any modern Muggle battleforce could have slaughtered an army of wizards. And here I was hoping for an enormous team-up in the last book (Death Eaters+giants+Dementors+some goblins+some foreign powers vs order of the phoenix+centaurs+some goblins+UK military+freed house elves.
** Well, we saw parts of that in ''Hallows'': If I remember correctly, some Centaurs participated in the Battle of Hogwarts, as well as the Hogwarts House Elves. Voldemort had at least some Giants and a number of Dementors on his side.
*** Considering the elves: There are only two freed elves that we know of (Dobby and Winky), and the others are servants/slaves of the families that own them. Keeping the the general opinion on house elves in mind, it would have been like having your cook, maid, or gardener go into battle. (And no, not [[UnderSiege that Cook]])
*** Involving the British Armed Forces would be an egregious break of the Statute of Secrecy, and could open a really big can of worms. (Imagine that large parts of the military learn about the existence of magic... cue black ops laboratories that try to find out how wizards tick and how to militarize them.)
*** The British prime minister already knows about wizards, as do all previous ones. I don't really know how the British government works, but couldn't they simply have also revealed themselves to a general and made a friendly request for some guns? Or just take 'em without asking? Battling for the rights of Muggles and Muggle-borns in a drawn-out bloody battle seems kinda odd if the Muggles could end the battle within minutes. But no, keeping ourselves secret is more important than the potential enslavement of Britain.
*** For that matter, couldn't they have recruited some Muggle soldiers or police who are related to Muggleborns, so already know that magic exists? Surely some of them would be more open-minded than the Dursleys, and eager to defend both the Muggle and wizarding worlds, not to mention their own family members.
** Regarding Centaurs: According to the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them side-material]], the Centaurs have voluntarily separated themselves from humans due to past discrimination on the part of wizards who tried to classify them as "beasts".
*** Okay, let's just accept that guns don't work on wizards, OK? Otherwise, the whole story is null and void. They'd probably sense the gun and stop it, or else do accidental magic or something.
**** Except that if melee weapons and arrows work on them, then guns should as well. So yeah, the story is pretty much null and void.
**** WMG: involuntary magic is most effective against Muggles/Muggle technology. More likely theory: magic weapons. And no, you cannot enchant a gun. Magic screws up technology.
***** Problem with the whole 'guns don't work on wizards' is that WordOfGod has said that technology will beat magic every time.
**** Also, WordOfGod is that wizards have yet to create a magical means to stop bullets. A Death Eater can be stopped cold simply by shooting him. The problem is that wizards and witches live in such an insular society (and one that's in a notoriously anti-gun area) that you'll find very few of them who are able to even operate a gun without an instruction manual in front of them, let alone do it safely. As has been mentioned, the Statute of Secrecy means that magical folk try to minimize their footprint in the Muggle world specifically to avoid exploitation and prevent bigotry or politics between the two turning into actual, dangerous conflict. They only inform the Prime Minister because he's a very high authority in the government and is trusted with knowledge of magic (probably including very sobering knowledge of what would happen if word got out to the public) to let him help keep things secret. The more people you involve, the more questions get raised and the more leaks get out.
* Where were England's traditional allies during the War? Voldemort qualifies as a rebellion, shouldn't the Ministries of the US and France and the rest of Muggle England's allies be helping England's Ministry of Magic? In fact, the countries that Magical Britain seems to have diplomatic relations with all seem to be Eastern European countries (like Bulgaria) or small countries (Andora). Sure, Britain plays Quidditch with places like Uganda and such, but the West is pretty much never mentioned. Wizarding Britain must have done something to damage relations with them.
** FridgeHorror. That's what Voldy was up to in book five. Britain's the last unconquered Wizard Government left. Alternatively, those countries ''are'' helping, but a) they don't correspond in size, for whatever reason, to the Muggle countries they represent, and/or b) they just aren't doing much good.
** Maybe the other countries don't have a pureblood supremacy movement, and Britain is the backwards one in this case.
** I second that. Wizarding Britain seems to be somewhat Victorian in its attitudes, so the Americans are probably seen as 'uncivilized colonials' and real-world relations with France have been somewhat frosty in the past. Additionally, there wasn't much time for the English wizarding government to call for help: Fudge refused to acknowledge Voldemort's return and was occupied with discrediting Dumbledore and Harry. Scrimgeour was in office for about a year before Voldemort took over the ministry. Then there's the matter of pride ("We can solve our problems by ourselves!").
** It's pretty unusual for governments to intervene and stop revolutions in fully independent nations in real life (the main exceptions I can think of here are the Russian Civil War and the East/West proxy conflicts in Africa and Asia during the Cold War). Usually, nothing gets done until the new regime has been in place for decades, and then something else tips the balance towards action (say ,a conquering spree or a pile of bodies that's just a little bit too big to ignore anymore). And I'd say that we aren't given enough information on the geopolitics of the magical world to know what sort of governmental infrastructures even exist in the Wizarding World outside of Britain.
** SarcasmMode: If the Wizarding US are like the Muggle US, it could have been plausible for the US Wizard Government to order an invasion of Wizarding Britain during Book Seven, to eliminate the 'Dark Lord Threat' before it spreads to other parts of the world. (*Thinking* This sounds like a viable PlotBunny for a seventh year FanFic...)
*** This American Troper finds this offensive. Our country would never interfere with Britain's affairs! [[SelfDeprecation They aren't one of our main sources for imported oil.]]
*** Forget writing a fanfic about America intervening. Write one about why it doesn't.
**** Going to war would take a bipartisan effort.
** This troper doesn't recall anything in the 7th book indicating that Voldemort's rebellion had spread beyond the UK. In fact, this troper doesn't recall anything to indicate that the outside world even ''knew'' Voldemort was back. The Ministry warned the Muggle UK Prime Minister, but apart from that, it doesn't seem like they told anybody. And after Voldemort took over, he certainly wouldn't want the French or US wizard governments knowing about it, just in case they did decide to invade.
** Tyrants coming to power in a single state and the coup being given only bureaucratic attention by governments elsewhere unfortunately is TruthInTelevision. It's actually one of the most realistic thing about the last book. Far worse things have been done in the real world than what Voldemort was doing to England and its Muggles, Muggle-borns etc.
* Each nation on Earth apparently has its own Ministry of Magic or the equivalent. These are essentially self-governing, and have minimal contact with the Muggle governments of their respective countries. So what happens if a Muggle country breaks up, like happened to the U.S.S.R., or if two Muggle nations merge, as with Germany? Do their Ministries suddenly have to rearrange themselves in response to political changes that the wizarding world played no part in?
** Not necessarily. Who's to say that each Wizarding government directly mirrors it's muggle counterpart? Britain could be the odd man out in this regard. Maybe there is no German Ministry of Magic. Maybe in the Wizarding World Germany never unified and still exists as a jumble of small states, just like muggle Germany before 1871. Hell, maybe in the Wizarding half of the United States each state is its own independent nation and there is no federal government to hold them together. (It would explain why we never see or hear about any representatives from the United Wizarding States if there technically is no United Wizarding States.)
** Also, it seems like the small size of the magical community in general means that it would be quite rare for a large governing body to take hold in each country with a magical population. Britain appears to be a highly important magical community, with one of the most famous wandmakers in the world calling London his home and a large, very well-respected school of magic in the Scottish Highlands. Despite this, it seems very small by the standards for a country's population and Hogwarts doesn't seem to have more students than an average public high school despite being the only wizarding school in the entire United Kingdom (and thus the ONLY choice for anyone not going international). There probably just isn't a large enough community in many other nations to justify a full sized wizard government, rather than just having a representative for the International Confederation.
* If each country's Ministry of Magic (or whatever they call it) is responsible for hiding magical creatures within its jurisdiction, who's responsible for hiding sea serpents, or other critters that are found in international waters?
** The International Confederation of Wizards probably handles that.
* The whole statute of secrecy kind of bugs me, since not only do wizards hide themselves from Muggles, they also hide all magical creatures, which defies us all access to potion materials. Basically, Wizards aren't just hiding, they stop Muggles from ever getting access to any magic.
** Hagrid states outright in Philosopher's Stone that one of the primary reasons for TheMasquerade is basically to keep Muggles from bothering them too much with their problems.
--->'''Harry''' "But what does a Ministry of Magic ''do''?"
--->'''Hagrid''' "Well, their main job is to keep it from the Muggles that there's still witches and wizards up and down the country."
--->'''Harry''' "Why?"
--->'''Hagrid''' "Why? Blimey, Harry, everyone would be wanting magic solutions to their problems. Nah, we're best left alone."
*** No, my problem is not that the wizards are hiding because they don't want to solve our every problem, my problem is that they are hiding the stuff which would make us capable of solving our own problems.
**** How would Muggles solve their own problems if they had access to magical creatures/plants? They'd still need magical knowledge or a wizard's help to make anything useful. Also, it would be kind of hard for witches and wizards to remain hidden if the Muggles had to deal with goblins and centaurs prancing about blabbing about the Ministry of Magic and Hogwarts, wouldn't it?
***** For magical knowledge, that's what experimentation is for.
*** [[http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2006/0801-radiocityreading1.html JKR once said that if a Muggle picked up a wand, they wouldn't be able to use it properly, and that they couldn't brew a potion (despite Potions being "the most Muggle-friendly subject")]], which basically explains the need for a Statute of Secrecy. But, as noted elsewhere on this page, the Wizarding World is very traditionalist (many times to the point of stupidity), so it could be a bunch of antiquated anti-Muggle sentiment keeping it from being at least re-written.
*** That article explains a lot, although it is quite vague, as if the author hadn't decided yet.
**** This Troper always thought that "We don't want the Muggles to bother us with their problems" was the bowdlerized version they tell to kids. If the Muggle world would realized the existence of magic, no wizard would be safe any more: Witch-Hunts, Mengele-like experiments on wizards in government labs, etc. (Just compare the treatment of mutants in X-Men)
***** The X-Men scenario is one option, but it's also possible that the reveal of magical CREATURES such as dragons, goblins, or giants would create a different scenario, wherein the muggle population became aware of creatures they did not know to exist before (something that might not be as negative an impact as a human of greater power). As for wizards themselves being revealed, it's possible that would cause an X-Men like scenario, but it's also possible they would be immediately associated with the current (real-world) use of 'witchcraft', which almost unerringly is applied to Wicca and other pagan religions. It's not UN-likely that the first impulse would be to lump witches and wizards in with Wiccans, and that people who stuck their hands up later and said 'no, we really CAN do REAL magic' would be identified as delusional or attention-seeking, and that the wizard world would be treated much as it has been - as something that isn't realistic or doesn't exist. The fact of the matter is that in order for witch-hunts the like of what we saw in Salem to even be possible, most people would have to be strictly Christian and to take 'thou shalt not suffer a witch to live' as a direct command from God. Even now, most Christian sects do not take this stance toward other religions. The reason it is more plausible in the X-Men is because the majority belief now is in evolution, which is fueled by natural mutation like what the X-Men display, and as such there would be more easily manipulated convictions based in science than there would be based in religion. Evangelical Christians are the most vocal, but not the most numerous individuals out there, and would be the most likely nemesis of real witches and wizards.
****** Let's be honest. The real reason nobody persecutes Wiccans is because ''no one believes their ridiculous claims about knowing magic spells''. If Muggles were made aware of REAL magic, the response would be quite different. After all, the reason the Bible considers witchcraft sinful and immoral is because of ''what it can do'', not just because it is allegedly a product of a pact with Satan. If magic were real, society would be utterly unable to tolerate it. How do you live next to a person you know could make your house burst into flame with a word? How do you deal with people who can read and control minds at will and without any physical trace that they've done so? You can't. The only rational response is to either wipe them out or forcibly segregate them from the rest of society (and by "segregate" I mean "move them to another continent", not "put them in a ghetto").
******* Given apparition and portkeys, "wipe them out" is the only option.
**** Hell, Muggle society can barely even stand different races that are no different from each other without devolving into genocide. Imagine what racism would be like if that other race actually had innate powers that could threaten the safety of your property and life and was so easy that a simple word and wave of an innocuous stick could perform it? Even a young child has access to magic that can seriously injure someone; imagine a moody teenager [[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheHalfBloodPrince delivering a Sectumsempra on a bully, perhaps?]] And the aforementioned attempts to figure out how wizards "tick", which takes very little to go straight to unscrupulous governments kidnapping and performing painful torture and gruesome experiments on witches and wizards. We've already seen how Squibs can be moody due to being part of magical society without having any magical ability. What would happen if that resentment and jealousy ended up being applied to the 99.9% of the population that had no magic? I guarantee that within less than a year you'd have news stories of nutbags draining wizards of their blood or disemboweling them to consume their innards to try and gain magic (and even worse, actual government experiments on that exact thing). Conflict between wizards and Muggles brings in added fear that the magical people will use their strange and seemingly unlimited powers to cast horrible things (even schoolchildren in Hogwarts are seen causing [[{{Squick}} bats to fly out of people's noses]] or instantly paralyzing them as part of simple childhood fights that Muggles would resolve with a punch or two to the nose), which gives the impression that any Muggle would gingerly treat a wizard the same way that you'd treat an angry man who you knew was carrying a gun and willing to use it frivolously even in minor arguments. It's good fanfic fodder, but not a good ''idea''.
***** You know what is written above? A comprehensive summary of the "Muggle Studies" course, taught to the students of Hogwarts by professor Carrow in the year 17 AP (Anno Potter). It is pretty much an elaboration on the briefer summary given by Neville Longbottom: "We’ve all got to listen to her explain how Muggles are like animals, stupid and dirty, and how they drive wizards into hiding by being vicious toward them". I'm not going to argue the accuracy of that viewpoint, for another thing's been bugging me. If this viewpoint is not just propaganda and villification of non-wizes on part of Death Eaters, if it is not restricted to a few narrow-minded bigots, but it is in fact an adopted and common, if unspoken, outlook of the wizard society in general, then '''what exactly were the Death Eaters WRONG about''', and how was the "good guys" opposing them not hypocrytical? If we put aside the superficial cartoonishly-evil appearence, they are simply proactive and are willing to engage the problem directly rather then beat around the bush and short-sightedly hope that the WeirdnessCensor and casual MindRape will stave the confrontation off forever, like the "good guys" do. Sure, their methods are extreme and brutal, but that's to be expected when they are in the minority and the majority, including the authorities stubbornly persists in self-deluded denial of their rightness.
* This doesn't really bug me, but I was just wondering if the Muggle bureaucracy even knows that wizards exist - not in the sense that they know Ron Weasley is a Wizard, but in the sense that they know a boy named Ron Weasley exists who was born in whatever year. Do wizards have whatever the British equivalent of social security numbers are? And of course, that relates to another question; just how much population is flying under the radar? Also, presumably Muggle-borns are registered in the system, but what about half-bloods where one parent is a Muggle? What about THEIR kids?
*** Probably not. Wizards existing in the records of Muggle bureaucracies opens up a whole slew of problems. For instance, who keeps these records? I can't see wizards doing it, given their strong cultural bias against doing anything in close proximity to Muggles. So they would have to be kept by Muggles. What happens if some Muggle bureaucrat is going through the records and starts finding more and more people who apparently don't exist? Does the Ministry of Magic keep a full-time company of Aurors on hand to memory-wipe any Muggle who stumbles upon the records? No, the alternative is much more likely. The names and births of wizards don't exist in Muggle records, with the exception of muggle-borns or wizards who are publicly visible to Muggles (i.e. Squibs, wizards who've had their wands snapped, or wizards whose profession involves regular contact with Muggles), and the records of the latter are probably forged. Half-blood wizards are ''probably'' registered (it would be hard to keep them secret from the Muggle side of the family), but not their children. As far as the Muggle government is concerned, half-blood wizards grow up, move away, and die alone and unloved.
**** What do you mean, people who apparently don't exist? All wizards except those in Hogsmeade have Muggle neighbors. Even the Weasleys in Ottery St. Catchpole. Muggleborns and half-bloods don't drop off the face of Muggle Earth. Wizards may not mingle with their Muggle neighbors much, but an inspector looking to confirm the existence of Ron Weasley or Marvolo Gaunt would succeed in doing so. And aversion to working with Muggles? They're in contact with the Prime Minister.
***** I mean people who exist on paper but have never been seen or heard from by anyone else. If a record of a person named Ron Weasley existed in a muggle database but no muggle had ever seen him, people would start to suspect some kind of fraud. And if huge volumes of records start being found of people who seem to only exist on paper, people would start to suspect a vast conspiracy. Also, you're wrong. All wizards outside of Hogsmeade ''do not'' have muggle neighbors. The Weasleys may technically be attached to a village (a fictional one, BTW) but they live way out in the boonies with not a soul around for miles. There's no indication in the books that they have any contact with muggle residents of Ottery St. Catchpole, assuming there are any. And there are undoubtedly many other "wizard only" villages similar to Hogsmeade all over the UK and around the world. As I said, wizards who are ''publicly visible'' to muggles might have some minimal paper trail in the muggle world, and that would include those who (by choice or otherwise) live amongst muggles. But there's no reason for the rest of them to appear in muggle records. It would only threaten TheMasquerade. And lastly, the only reason the Ministry of Magic stays in contact with the muggle Prime Minister is because they have to. If complete separation were possible I'm sure that's what they would do.
** The reason Hagrid gives for keeping the Muggles in the dark is what bugs me. Apparently, magic is so wonderful that it can't possibly be shunned as a solution like every other new and scary thing exposed to the masses. There are still plenty of people who refuse to touch a computer! "Well, I never needed a wand to look after my house, and I had more kids than this Weasley person!"
*** Hagrid's answer is likely a) something he came up with on the fly, b) something he's not given a lot of thought before, and c) a drastically simplified answer given to an eleven-year-old boy who's just discovered that wizards exist. Explaining the social and political ramifications of the fall of TheMasquerade to a child (potential violent response from Muggles, social unrest, demands to access to magical artifacts for scientific study, cruelty to magical creatures/beings, etc.) when you're not that well-educated yourself is probably pretty difficult.
*** But those computer-phobes are decreasing every year. The same would no doubt hold true for magic.
*** Conclusion: the masquerade is useless.
*** The thing is, a computer isn't magic. A computer can't let you instantly cause someone to simply die with absolutely no markings or signs of death beyond "They're dead" and thus confounding all attempts to find a murderer, or let you cause excruciating pain, or let you control someone's mind with nothing but a wave of a stick and the desire to do so. A computer can't let you turn a man's face into a pufferfish, or instantly paralyze him. It can't let you con people by inventing items out of thin air and selling them before they naturally disappear. Or teleport. Or make benign objects fly or gain sentience. And what a computer does is ''known'' and ''finite.'' People who are dumb or out of touch think computers can do things that they really can't, but even then they have some idea of what limits are and aren't ridiculous. Magic? Even wizards and witches don't know everything any more than Muggles 100% understand science. To a Muggle, magic is an unknowable force that lets it user (even a small child) do amazing and terrible things. Not only would they be demanding magical solutions to common problems because "You lot can do it with just a silly word, right?" but they'd also be terrified of what someone with magic might do. As is said above, what would you feel about living next to someone who can turn your house into kindling with a muttered word, or turn you into a ferret because of a minor dispute? It would be terrifying for Muggles to try and live among a minority that has unknowable and awesome powers, and would result in tremendous fear and discrimination.
* Exactly how does the Ministry of Magic handle matters between the wizarding society and Muggle Britain. For example, let's say that a Muggle aware of the Masquerade is invited to a social function containing mostly wizards and ends up killing most of them. Do the wizards take matter into their own hands and have to figure a way to explain his disappearance to the authorities, or do they simply report to Muggle police while trying their best to hide the fact that they are members of a secret community of actual wizards and witches? Also, how do squibs integrate into Muggle society if they presumably have no National Insurance number or birth certificate that would be recognized as legitimate?
** The answer to all your questions is magical forgery. If a muggle kills a bunch of wizards, the wizards convict him in their own courts, then literally conjure up evidence indicating he actually killed a bunch of Muggles, modify his memory so that he believes that he killed a bunch of Muggles, and then turn the killer over to the Muggle government. If a Squib decides to go off and live with the Muggles, the Ministry of Magic magics up all the documentation they need. Or alternatively, they ''don't'' do this, and the Squib ends up living on the streets as a crazy beggar.
** Presumably have no birth certificate why? Wouldn't all wizards have them, so that they can prove their existence (as Muggles) to the Muggle government?
*** This presumes that all Muggles have birth certificates, but guess what? There are a lot of people who don't have them and [[LiesDamnLiesAndStatistics a good 70%]] probably have never and will never see the actual document, since it's filed away in a government office somewhere near their birthplace.
** Also, people disappear all the time. In 2001, over 50,000 adults disappeared without a trace. If the wizarding world wanted to punish a Muggle for a crime against wizards, it would be trivial to simply grab them and remove any forensic evidence (and even if the Muggle authorities can follow a trail, we've already established in canon that wizards can easily hide ''entire villages, castles, and districts of a large city'' from Muggle eyes, let alone wizarding courts and prisons). They'd never be seen again and simply presumed to have either been kidnapped and dismembered far from home or intentionally went off the grid and are either dead or living elsewhere under a pseudonym.
* While veritaserum isn't used in courts because it can be circumvented, why not use pensieves to establish that the testimony isn't a lie? Or why not have witnesses make an Unbreakable Vow to the judge to not lie for the duration of them being on the stand? Of course, neither would establish that the testimony is ''factual'', since memories can be modified via magic, but establishing that the witness isn't lying would be extremely useful.
** It's never really established how widespread pensieves are in this world. For all we know, Dumbledore has one because a previous Headmaster of Hogwarts created it and left it for Headmasters only. If, however, they are widespread enough for commercial use, it's entirely possible that the way veritaserum is bypassed can bypass pensive memories as well. Unbreakable Vows, on the other hand, might be really bad, as, if I remember correctly, if you break one, you die. That would be bad in the courtroom for lying about something small on accident. Unfortunately, even if phrased correctly as an oath of truth, it could probably still be bypassed by the above method of fooling veritaserum. The fact that a truth serum can be bypassed usually means there's a magical method to completely fool one's perspective of the truth. In that case, there would be no way to get the truth unless there's a way to prevent the method.
*** Well, I would presume that the British Ministry would have enough resources to get a single one to be used at trials. As for bypassing the truth serum, according to WordOfGod, "he [Barty Crouch Jr.] might have sealed his own throat [to prevent swallowing it] and faked a declaration of innocence, transformed the Potion into something else before it touched his lips, or employed Occlumency against its effects", so those techniques couldn't be used against a pensieve or the vow. And when Slughorn tried to tamper with his extracted memory, it was obvious that it had been altered. And as for dying from breaking the vow: 1) the vow could be worded along the lines of "I swear to not ''intentionally'' lie" to prevent death from accidents, and 2) I don't think people would be willing to die in order to lie over minor matters.
*** What really gets me is that their solution to the possibility of veritaserum failure is simply to take testimony without any veritaserum. So, because there is a method of interrogation that can possibly be suborned with significant effort, it is then cast aside and instead they use... a method that can be suborned by the simple effort of opening one's mouth and lying? Refusal to use a method because it's imperfect only makes sense if the alternative is more reliable; otherwise, it might not be ideal, ''but it's still better than nothing''. As for the WordOfGod in question; in that very same paragraph, Rowling also mentions that the reason veritaserum ''did'' work on Barty Crouch was because he was 'groggy' at the time he was dosed and thus unable to perform any tricks. The solution is thus obvious; feed the interrogatee a stunner (or some type of confundus or disorienting charm, if you just want to daze them momentarily), force-feed Veritaserum, then enervate.
**** Veritaserum is not better than nothing because it lends a sense of false confidence to the interogation. It is easily understood that the person being questioned may lie, but people may have a harder time accepting that if they've been dosed with veritaserum.
***** That depends on how they use it. If Veritaserum is used so that a confession is treated as proof that it works on the suspect but no confession is not proof that it doesn't then it can be a basic screening method to save a lot of time and effort. The only flaw I can see in this is that it wouldn't detect people confessing to things that they did not do but I think that would only happen in a minority of cases when the person who took the Veritaserum either had a thing for confessing to things they didn't do or if they were trying to protect the person who did commit the crime or who they believed to have committed the crime.
*** Think about this in terms of the Muggle equivalent: do you really think execution is an appropriate punishment for perjury, in EVERY instance? What if you were a witness to a murder, had been through unspeakable horrors, and after therapy agreed to testify at the trial, only to be drugged, threatened with death if your accounts were imperfect or you told a white fib (e.g. "I was on that street to pick up the dry cleaning, not buy sex toys..."), made to give up your private memories and experiences to be scrutinized by strangers, and treated with extreme suspicion and disrespect. Do you think your testimony would be the best quality and calmest it could be?
*** On that note, who WOULD testify if they knew that they would be put through such danger for it? If you were aware that testifying meant being put under a death sentence for even a minor lie meant to protect your reputation or safety and had your very brain poked and prodded for information, would you want to show up in court? Hell, would you even trust a government that's so willing to execute its citizens or invade their most private life for a common criminal conviction?
* Okay, here's something that really bothers me. The wizarding world seems to have no semblance of a military. I mean, sure, there's the Aurors and Order of the Phoenix, but they seem more like police/intelligence, so there's really no military. Also, Rowling said herself that a human with a shotgun would win every time over a wizard with a wand. Doesn't this seem like it would put the "Muggle sympathizers" in the story at a distinct 'advantage' to Voldemort, or at least his cronies? Sure, fewer people in Britain have guns than in the US, but they're not impossible to get, killing curses could be defended against with simple riot shields[[hottip:*:although a given riot shield would probably only work once]], etc. Also, considering that the wizarding world is run by the "Ministry of Magic," and assuming that all wizards are still loyal to Britain, wouldn't the fact that one of their ministers had been 'deposed' by some magic Hitler-wannabe set off a bunch of red flags for the British government? Forget Britain's allies turning a blind eye. The British Military could have, and should have, handled this instead of forcing it on a 17-year-old, even if he is a wizard.
** It was more an off-the-cuff remark about Muggle vs. Wizard, she didn't particularly think it through. There is evidence through the series that wizards aren't much threatened by guns.
** Not only that, but the Order of the Phoenix is NOT international, and it was mentioned that they were unable to get foreign help.
** What are you going to do about the British Military being sent in to kill a ''wizard''? The Statue of Secrecy is there for a reason: keep the knowledge of magic away from the public eye to prevent wizards and witches from being exploited or abused. Even if you justified Voldemort and his Death Eaters as terrorists, what are you going to do when they start flinging magic? Swear the entire unit to secrecy? That's proven to not work 100%. And since Death Eaters seem to live and operate in populated areas or at least the countryside of first-world countries, how are you ever going to keep that operation secret and keep it from having collateral damage?
** On the subject of a wizarding military, they don't ''need'' one. The biggest threat to the wizarding world from actual magic users in the past ''centuries'' has been smaller than some street gangs in number and has no advantages in power, number, or equipment over the wizarding police force. The only thing that made Death Eaters difficult to combat has been their leader's effective immortality, and they likely could have quashed that if they had access to the necessary intelligence regarding the horcruxes (otherwise it wouldn't have been handled by some rogue teenagers hiding from Voldemort's government, who had to operate with intelligence gained from one of the most powerful wizards in history who was specifically fighting Voldemort outside of government circles).
* How enforcement of underage magic is handled bugs me. The way the trace works is that they can't tell if you did magic, only if someone did magic near you, right? Given the Ministry's history of pure-blood supremacy, it doesn't really surprise me that they'd go after Muggle-borns and those raised by Muggles while relying on the parents to enforce it in pure-blood households. However, what about households with Muggle parents and more than one wizarding child (ie the Creevey brothers). If Colin Creevey sets off a hovering charm, say, then how will the ministry know to punish him and not Dennis? And what about when one sibling is of Hogwarts age but the other is still quite young and in the "Doing magic by accident" phase? What then?
** You forget about "Priori Incantem". Yeah, sure, they don't use it in Chamber of Secrets, but that's bureaucracy to you - always going for the simplest and most formal approach.
*** Of course, the one time we see that spell used in the books, it provides evidence against someone innocent (the culprit had taken another person's wand). But it would work in that particular accidental-magic case.
** How many times have kids in RealLife gotten away with false accusations against their siblings? A fair few. So witches and wizards have to deal with the same problem…
** They target Muggle-borns because they can't tell if a family with of-age wizards have underage wizards breaking the law (they rely on the parents to enforce it within wizard households). It's a magical blind-spot that would be the case with or without their suspicion of Muggle-borns.
** '''Question:''' Why did the Ministry try to expel Harry after Dobby used a hover charm in book 2, but NOT when Arthur Weasley used magic to blast the Dursleys' fireplace open a few books later?\\
'''Answer:''' Because in the second case, the Ministry ''knew Arthur was going to be in the house''. He had to get special permission to temporarily connect the Dursley house to the floo network, so any magic detected by the trace during that time-frame would have been disregarded by the Ministry as the work of the adult wizard Arthur Weasley. On the other hand, the Ministry had no idea Dobby was in the Dursley house so they naturally assumed that any magic detected in Harry's vicinity must have been cast by him. Extrapolating from this logic, if a muggle family gave birth to two or more wizard children then any magic detected in their house would have to be investigated before either could be punished. And that would be as easy as sending an Auror over to the house and casting Priori Incantem on both their wands.
* So, if the Ministry has a special quill that records the names of all magical children in Britain at their birth, why, oh WHY, do they not bother to tell the parents of any wizard child born to Muggles that their child has magical powers ''until they are 11 freakin' years old?!'' Wouldn't it make a hell of a lot more sense and be much kinder to give those poor parents at least a few years to get used to the idea that their child is going to have super powers and be accepted into a fantastic and bizarre hidden society where they'll only be allowed to see them for 3 months a year for 7 years of their teenage life, instead of just casually dumping this life-altering and world-view shattering revelation on them all at once a mere month or two before it begins? Not to mention, how many Muggle-born wizard children do you think have been needlessly traumatized or institutionalized by people that think they're crazy because the wizard government never thought it was necessary to warn their parents that, oh hey, your kid might accidentally bend and/or break the rules of physics with magic every now and then, don't worry though, cause it's perfectly normal?
** It fails the Law of Drama, you need the CallToAdventure to come as a shock, not as something that the protagonist has been groomed for for all his/her life. As for in universe reasons... I guess the Wizarding world's prejudice against Muggle-borns also extends to the Muggle-born's ''parents''; not telling them them that their child is magical until the last moment possible (after which said child is immediately removed from the parents to be immersed practically full-time in the magical culture) has the effect of neatly locking out the parents from the Wizarding world. If you tell the parents that their kids are magical from birth, presumably they can meet with with other such parents during the pre-Hogwarts years and worm their way into the Wizarding culture, and before you know it, there would be this subpopulation of Muggle parents running around the magical world, and that's probably a little too much multiculturalism for the old-fashioned wizards.
*** Only Harry (being the protagonist of the series) needed the Law of Drama, and he ''got'' it from the Dursleys purposefully trying to quash any and all opportunities for him to learn about the wizarding world (and it took Hagrid bursting in to overcome their efforts). There's no excuse for anyone else.
** I think the above response is on the cynical end of things. On the other end, there's: a) By eleven, the kids have produced some weird events that can be used as proof to persuade the parents that you're not insane. Think about it; what would you think if Some Dude appeared and said "Hey, that baby you're holding? Magical powers. Totally not crazy. Not a joke. Prepare yourselves. Also, we'll be back in eleven years to take him away. Ta ta." Versus "Hey, you know all those crazy things your kid does? Magic. Only explanation for it." Yes, the person could demonstrate for proof, but that could be "eyes playing tricks" or "temporary insanity," whereas the children's tricks usually have non-family witnesses, have been building up for years, and aren't looked on with serious suspicion from the beginning. b) To discourage children from purposefully escalating their "accidental" magic displays. We learn towards the end of the series that some experimentation is not unusual, but think about how much more there would be if the children knew how and why they did these things. It legitimizes it and opens up the opportunity for messing around to get a leg up before school starts. Yes, wizarding families' children do know, but if they experiment like that, it's unlikely to be around Muggles and they have more people to slap them on the wrist and teach them The Rules.
** They get their ''Hogwarts acceptance letter'' a week before they turn 11. (Incidentally, it's also entirely possible the whole 'birthday' thing is a coincidence. Students might just have to respond a month before school starts, and a letter gets sent a week before that if they have failed to do so.) But we have no evidence Muggle-born aren't introduced to the Wizarding world well in advance of that. What people forget is Harry Potter is not Muggle-born. His parents were Wizards, and it's probably pretty unlikely for a Wizard to be sent to live with Muggle relatives. Presumably, he slipped through the cracks, either accidentally, on purpose thanks to Dumbledore's meddling, or simply because the Dursleys threw any wizards out of their house before Harry saw them.
*** I think we're given some evidence that the Muggleborn students haven't been introduced to the wizarding world well in advance. Justin was supposed to go to Eton until he got his letter and if he'd known for years they wouldn't have made plans to send him there (or at least he wouldn't still be talking about it years later). Colin babbled about how shocked they were when he got his Hogwarts letter and so did Hermione. If these people had known that they were wizards for longer than a month or so than they'd be well used to the idea and have likely spent enough time in Diagon Alley or around other wizards that they'd be much less...bubbling. Harry Potter might as well ''be'' Muggleborn for all the good having wizard parents did. Dean isn't Muggleborn and presumably there have been other cases of magical children being raised by Muggle relatives who aren't their parents. Tom Riddle wasn't Muggleborn and he got the same sort of treatment as Harry did. In fact, it actually shows that he had never heard of magic being real before he got his letter so I think that's even stronger proof that Muggleborn students find out around the time Harry does. And it makes so much more sense to send the notes out at the same time rather than doing it a week before their eleventh birthday. Hermione's birthday is in September so should she find out a year before she can actually go to Hogwarts? Where's the sense in that? It's also so much more work to remember (or magic it) to send letters out periodically to students whose birthday it's approaching than to do it all at once.
**** Concerning Hermione, this might be FridgeBrilliance. Remember how she's a year older than Harry and Ron because she waited a year to find out about the wizarding world and reading books and stuff? While she was happy to do so, maybe she just ''had to'' because she got her acceptance letter just a little to late and her parents had already planned something for the year!
***** Hermione's birthday is in September. Most schools have a cutoff date for when the student-to-be has to be a certain age, which was likely before the start of term (September 1st) for Hogwarts.
** The policy not to alert Muggle parents about their children's potential might date back a long way, to an era when there'd be no guarantee a newborn wizard or witch would ''survive'' to age 11. Child mortality was sky-high for most of human history; better to wait until they're sure the child will live long enough to come to Hogwarts before the family is informed.
*** I have to agree on the suggestion that it's to keep children from abusing their power. Look at Tom Riddle as a boy, and how his cleverness let him quickly find out that he had powers and could use them to get what he wanted. What's going to happen to a child in a Muggle household that's told from an early age that he has magic powers? What's going to happen with parents that learn that their child is magical and try to take advantage of them, raising them to hone their powers to solve their problems through magical means?
* Given that the books say more than once that many witches and wizards are half-blood or muggle-born, otherwise the wizarding world would be dying out, why is it that the head of the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts department doesn't get almost everything muggle? Ditto most of the wizarding population. You would think everyone would know someone they could ask questions concerning muggle stuff.
** What gets me is how Mr. Weasley and his kids keep mispronouncing the names of Muggle technologies, even after they've heard Harry say them correctly. Isn't proper enunciation something that's drilled into young wizards in every spell-casting course from Day One? They ''have'' to pronounce spells correctly for them to work, so should have a good ear for words in general.
*** Do YOU pronounce new words properly 100% of the time as soon as you hear them?
* Harry grows up to head the Auror office, and Ron becomes one too. This is rather surprising given their record of breaking rules when it suits them.
** Exactly, then they'll know all the criminal's dirty tricks, perfect. The bigger question is which one of them will turn into Gene Hunt.
** Oh come on now. Breaking rules when it suits them? Sheesh. The way you tell it you'd think Harry and Ron were hardened criminals by age 12. First of all, whatever rule-breaking they did was almost always for the greater good. I hardly think that breaking rules to ''save lives'' should be held against them. In fact, I think it's safe to say that ''every single instance'' of Harry and Ron breaking the rules at Hogwarts was:\\
A) justified by extenuating circumstances,\\
B) a minor infraction blown completely out of proportion by the adult characters,\\
C) harmless juvenile mischief,\\
or D) an innocent mistake by a couple of kids who didn't know any better.
*** You're right. It was ''after'' they grew up and became Aurors, that they began to break rules when it suits them, like mind-raping driving instructors to get a licence. Huh, I guess it's true what they say: it always '''starts''' with doing it for greater good.
*** Forgive my rudeness, but what in the Hell are you even talking about?
**** Ron admitting he Confounded his instructor to get a driving license in the epilogue. Although, we don't need to go that far, of course. How about Harry using an unauthorized and unverified book of magic to get ahead in his classes, which nearly lead to the death of his fellow student? Which of the four categories would you put that instance under?
***** Ron's actions easily fall into category B) and arguably also A). The Confundus charm is hardly a "mind-rape", and if you'll go back and read that epilogue again you'll see that Ron only Confunded the driving instructor to make him forget a minor mistake with his side-mirror. And Ron himself pointed out that in a real-life driving situation he would have cast a Supersensory Charm anyway. As for Harry's use of the Half-Blood Prince book, a couple of things. Firstly, "unauthorized and unverified"? It was a ''textbook'', not the Necronomicon. And it was ''given to Harry by his professor'' if you'll recall. So what exactly makes it "unauthorized"? The fact that it's annotated? Most of the textbooks I owned in college were used books full of notes left by previous students. And sure enough, some of those notes helped me better understand the material and get ahead in my classes. Does that mean I cheated my way through college? Of course not. Secondly, Harry had no idea and ''no reason to assume'' that any of the spells written in the book were dangerous. In fact all the ones he tried up until Sectumsempra seemed to be harmless amusements. The fact that Sectumsempra was actually capable of killing anyone was a complete surprise. And after Harry cast the spell on Draco ''he was crippled with guilt and shame'' and started looking at the book with a more fearful eye from that point on. So I would put Harry's use of the book squarely in the D) category with a heavy helping of a new category I've just made up:\\
E) the person making this complaint needs to pay better attention to the books.
*** On another note, I think that any of Harry and Ron's schoolboy rule breaking would have been overlooked by the fact that they ''stopped the most notorious dark wizard known to mankind when they were teenagers''. Any questions about them being poor cops because of their school record are made moot by the fact that most of this record comes from ''saving the world.''
* This was the only category that I can think of to properly sort this complaint into, but: why do so many wizards act like a FishOutOfWater? The Statue of Secrecy is pretty important, but they don't do anything to teach wizards how to act among muggles. And it's not like that's difficult. Here is the pamphlet:
** Dress in Muggle clothing. See figure one for standard wardrobes, sorted by gender. women may wear men's clothes, but the reverse is not true.
*** Theoretically this could work, but it would require extensive research by the Ministry (or someone) of Muggle fashion trends, and it would have to be updated regularly as Muggle fashions change, ''and'' it would have to include explanations of certain social dress codes (you don't want a wizard showing up at a fancy restaurant in a pair of jeans and an old t-shirt, for instance). That kind of research is something no one in the Wizarding World can apparently be bothered with. On the rare occasions they must interact with Muggles it's simpler to just grab a box full of assorted Muggle clothes and throw them on.
*** Pottermore goes into more detail on this: wizards tend to pick a fashion style, then spend decades insulated in wizarding society (which has a well-established prejudice against Muggles and tends to be slow to adopt new pop culture and technology) and come out wearing clothes that are out of date or even downright anachronistic. Some witches and wizards even intentionally wear ridiculous outfits to screw around. It doesn't help that Muggle fashion sense changes within a decade or less.
** Don't gawk at things muggles aren't gawking at. Act like muggle objects are mundane for you.
*** While that is good advice for wizards, actually putting it into practice is another matter. In real life, tourists are often told by travel experts not to act (or dress) like tourists in foreign countries because it can make them the targets of criminals. Yet they still do it.
** Pay using Muggle money. If necessary, there is a goblin in Gringotts who will give you Pounds for Galleons.
*** They do pay using Muggle money. It's figuring out what is essentially foreign currency that they have a problem with. TruthInTelevision.
** And remember that Loose Lips Crash Broomsticks. Don't mention magic in any way, shape, or form.
*** Easier said than done. Magic is an essential part of their lives and they're used to talking about it freely. Not everyone can manage such strict self-discipline without training.
** See how easy that was?
*** The office of Muggle Relations probably has one, but considering the insular attitudes and smug superiority of wizards, I have a hard time seeing that pretty much anyone would pick one up. Also, Wizarding Britain is a radically different culture from Muggle Britain. Acting like you belong in a completely different culture is not something you learn to do overnight. It can take years or decades, if it is at all possible.
**** Your first point is completely valid, your fourth slightly less, considering how pervasive magic is in Wizarding Britain, but I'll grant it. Remembering to exchange your money is a valid point as such, but the question is which is more likely to breach the masquerade, someone who tries to exchange gold for goods or services, or someone who doesn't know how to tell what denomination paper money is and thinks there are 493 pence to a pound. As for gawking, I gawked a LOT the first time I visited London, definitely enough to make me stand out in a crowd, and I come from a city in a similar culture. How do you think someone from a rural part of Africa or Asia, who has never been further away from home than the nearest village would react to seeing London, even if he/she had seen London on TV? Yeah, like that.
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Things relating to the Harry Potter universe in general go in Headscratchers/HarryPotterUniverse. Stuff that doesn't fit anywhere can go in Headscratchers/HarryPotterOther. For a specific book, please go to their specific page:
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndThePhilosophersStone
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndTheChamberOfSecrets
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndThePrisonerOfAzkaban
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndTheHalfBloodPrince
* Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndTheDeathlyHallows
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* What exactly constitutes a 'misuse of Muggle artifacts'? Enchanted brooms seem to be okay, because it is tradition, yet flying carpets are forbidden because carpets are Muggle artifacts. Ministry cars are enchanted to be TARDIS-like, but that's okay, and the Knight bus is a freakin' purple triple-decker bus that zigzags through streets full of Muggle cars, but that seems to be okay, too. On the other hand, Mr. Weasley faced an inquiry because of his enchanted Ford Anglia. So, somehow it seems to be a bit random what 'Muggle artifact' can be legally enchanted, and when such an enchantment becomes illegal. The only explanation this Troper could come up so far is 'politics'.
** Mr. Weasley got in trouble more because of the fact that his car was spotted ''flying'' by several Muggles. If he'd enchanted it to only do the things the other Ministry cars can do, there probably would have been no inquiry at all. It seems to be more along the lines of protecting the statute of secrecy than politics. The flying carpets being outlawed in England seem more a precaution than anything else. They might be more noticeable and people would have a lot less reason to have one in their possession as brooms are necessary for Quidditch and used less often for transportation.
** Arthur's car had a '''defective''' invisible spell and was seen by a dozen Humans. Ministry sent out a squad of Aurors to mind-rape (Obliviate) the Witnesses. Arthur was fined G50, I assume G20 paid for the clean-up squad and G30 was punishment. When the Twins used the car to rescue Harry, the invisible spell worked and there was no punishment.
** Crouch makes a big deal that his family used a carpet '''before''' the ban. I assume that carpets had an efficient invisible spell and the ban was political/economic.
** Muggles ''have'' invented flying cars. We just realized that they were an incredibly dumb idea because they used up ''huge'' amounts of gasoline, and then crashed once they ran out. Needless to say, we stopped producing them. Why wouldn't the people who saw Arthur's car flying just assume it was some idiot trying to revive that concept?
*** They'd probably notice a flying car without wings or any propulsion.
** Broomstick riders can use disillusionment charms so that the flyers can not be seen by Muggles. They could do the same thing with carpets.
** Also, permits. The Ministry knows that it has some flying cars, and the bus is probably registered. Nobody knew that Mr. Weasley had enchanted a car in such a way. About flying carpets, I think they're legal.
*** Flying carpets are illegal. There is a conversation between Arthur Weasley, Barty Crouch Sr., and Ludo Bagman in book four where they talk about the ban. It seems to be a political thing, though. They're banning the import of flying carpets from Asia, while British made brooms are perfectly legal. Okay, Crouch mentions a "12-seater Axminster", which is a British carpet, but all together, it sounds like a conspiracy along the lines of "the oil industry is holding back electric cars". Perhaps the Quibbler should do some articles on the subject.
**** Um. This troper doesn't think flying carpets are illegal. IMPORTING them is. Perhaps Britain wants to keep a monopoly?
***** Flying carpets are illegal in Britain. Crouch's mention of an Axminster is followed immediately by the assurance that "it was before they were banned, of course." It's a Misuse of Muggle Artifacts issue, not a monopoly issue.
***** And in what way are brooms different from carpets? Both can be found in any given Muggle household, so classifying one as a Muggle artifact whose enchantment is illegal and the other as a legal magic object sounds a bit odd.
****** Muggle brooms don't come with footholds, aerodynamically cut twigs, and names inscribed on the end. It would be pretty easy to tell the difference between a ''sweeping'' broom and a ''flying'' broom.
***** I reckon it's a subtle hint at racism within the wizarding world - "oh, they're Asian/Middle-Eastern, you can't trust them." Replace "flying carpet" with "burqa" and the metaphor might make sense.
** Inconsistency in government regulation is TruthInTelevision. Example: Drugs. Marijuana is illegal in all 50 American states (edit: well, not any more), yet alcohol and tobacco are not. Another example: This troper once read an article about a UK law that would ban beer over a certain alcohol content, yet that content was actually lower than the alcohol content of absinthe, which is not banned in Britain.
** Flying carpets aren't traditional in Britain the way that they are in Arabia or the way that flying brooms are in Britain. Therefore, they can be banned without a general uprorar.
** This troper believes that the issue of carpets and brooms is trackability. Broomsticks and ordinary brooms look very distinctive, and to a wizard eye, it is easy to spot the difference. Carpets, on the other hand, are not as easy to tell apart if they are enchanted. Just a thought.
*** Also, if a flying carpet were to accidentally fall into Muggle hands, there's a fair chance that some ignorant non-wizard will be standing on top of one, not realizing it isn't a normal piece of floor covering, and mistakenly activate it. No Muggle is likely to ''try'' to ride a broomstick, save perhaps when they're goofing around at Halloween, so there's much less chance of some unsuspecting soul accidentally being carried into the stratosphere.
*** Personally, if it were up to me, I would enchant a snowboard and get a personal hoverboard.
** With the advancements in Muggle technology, perhaps the straw and staff broom has being supplanted in the Muggle world by vacuums and more effective brooms. This would leave the for-flying-only brooms as something that isn't of the Muggle world anymore.
** On top pf the general politics, it may be excused with safety concerns. With the broom, you pretty much have to hold on, but with a carpet there is really nothing to hold on to. Maybe there were handles or something, but there is no way of knowing. And of course, it is likely that the foreign carpets were judged more harshly then the traditional brooms on that matter.
** Political arguments are a bitch. Even the most sensible Muggle governments have inconsistencies and can get into fights over minutiae, and the Ministry isn't shown as being especially sensible or even intelligent.
* Not really something that bugs me, but something I kept thinking about: The books take place in the nineties, but now it is 2010 and [[TechnologyMarchesOn the world has changed a little bit]]. Cities like London are riddled with [=CCTV=] surveillance cameras, and Joe Average carries a cellphone that can not only take pictures and videos, but also post them on the internet in a matter of seconds. On the other hand, we have seen wizards depicted as being utterly ignorant to the most basic muggle inventions. Put those two factors together and wizards will have a really hard time to uphold TheMasquerade. Or are there plausible ways to prevent that?
** While there may be ways to prevent that, like having wizards working for various technology groups to put memory charms in the devices, it would also be beyond most wizards to maintain this level of technological intelligence combined with memory charms. In all honesty, something would have happened by today where some dark wizard attacking a town would have been caught on camera and posted on the internet before any government (magic or Muggle) could stop the leak and break TheMasquerade. I saw a fanfic where such a thing happened in Argentina and Harry was a primary diplomat between the two worlds and helped them ease into living with the societies together (that, and Quidditch got even bigger).
** The epilogue doesn't mention anything unusual, so we can probably assume that they managed to keep it secret until at least 2017. Given their numbers, capabilities, and intelligence of Muggle society, that is nothing short of a miracle; the masquerade is definitely living on borrowed time.
** A) Disillusionment charm. B) Most wizards seem to avoid Muggle population centers whenever they can. (Was it ever said in Deathly Hallows whether Voldemort and his followers were openly attacking Muggles?)
*** Presumably, someone could devise a spell to render a given closed-circuit camera blind to magical phenomena and creatures. Agents of the Ministry can cast it on any cameras within range of nexuses like the Leaky Cauldron or the train station, and the Muggles who view the feed would never know they're missing things.
** But there's still an incredible amount of possible scenarios by which the masquerade could be broken. It just doesn't make any sense for it to have survived this long.
** Memory Charms. People on the inside (such as Kingsley a la Half-Blood Prince). Muggleborns and half-bloods that are savvy to the Muggle world. I think a lot of the bases are covered.
** It's also pointed out several times that magic screws with technology. Those cameras might simply not work to see wizards or record them in a meaningful way. Besides, if anything would break that masquerade, it's the Knight Bus banging all over England making ''buildings'' jump out of the way. If that didn't do it, some kid's Nokia cell won't.
** Maybe one of the reasons so many quickly-debunked "supernatural" viral videos circulate on the Internet is that Squibs are planting them online, to keep people skeptical about the ''real'' sightings when they happen...
** What I would want to know in relation to this is how Hogwards deals with all the pissed 11 year old muggleborns who are suddenly stranded without their cellphones and thus can't mail their friends and family on a regular basis anymore. Or are unable to use computers for google and stuff. For kids who grew up in the quick-paced, technology centred world we live in today, the wizarding world would be frustratingly slow...
*** I think the vast majority of them would be so awed by the fact they are ''learning actual factual magic'' that they wouldn't be much bothered by the lack of cell phones and internet access. And the few who would complain would be slapped down by the rest. "Dude, shut up! You keep complaining about your stupid cell phone and we're going to get thrown out of class ''and I don't want to miss the lesson on how to turn someone into a newt!'' So cut that shit out!"
** On the subject of the sudden proliferation of cameras, keep in mind that it didn't happen instantly. Just 20 years ago, it was unthinkable for virtually every single person you meet on the street in even a small town to have a pocket device capable of uploading photos and videos to a worldwide network within seconds. Even 10 years ago, many people didn't have phones that could capture anything but a tiny, low-resolution image and it was common for them to have phones that couldn't take pictures at ALL. The magical word is a hell of a lot more than 20 years behind the trend, especially given how insular they are (even Muggleborn children tend to spend the majority of the year in a 100% magical community thanks to schooling), so they probably just never even considered the proliferation until problems started to hit them.\\
That said, it's not hard for both magic and human nature to counter technology. Large amounts of magic already puts it on the fritz, so any cameras near Diagon Alley would probably be suffering from glitches and any magical activity caught on them could be handwaved as another error (which could be done on a lesser scale with cameras away from magical hotspots). Making someone forget occurrences takes a few seconds and a simple spell that a teenager can perform. And, most importantly, humans have a WeirdnessCensor. Muggles not only don't believe in magic, but they really ''can't'' believe in it because of how long they're told that there's no such thing as magic. Unless a person is very gullible or mentally ill (or the occurrence is so bafflingly alien that it CAN'T be justified or handwaved away), their first response to seeing what appears to be a person flying on a broom or someone firing a jet of green light at a guy across the street is to start thinking of completely normal explanations, if only so they don't sound silly or high when recounting the tale. The proliferation of image editors means that any photos or videos can and will be called out as hoaxes. The only occurrence that would actually causes a complete break in TheMasquerade would be one that is witnessed live (not on a video or simply an urban legend spread around) by a very large amount of people, extremely obvious, and has no sensible justification. It would take something on par with a magical battle between Aurors and Death Eaters in the middle of Times Square that causes huge amounts of property damage to have an incident that completely runs out of justifications.
* This is related to the wizard world bubble above. I can kind of understand them not wanting to do much with Muggles (the oldest wizards probably had grandparents who the Muggles tried to burn as witches), although it still seems very odd. What is even worse is that the wizards form their own bubble within the magical world, and English wizards form one within that. House Elves, for an example, would be more powerful then wizards if they had a wand. Yet no one seems to actually use them for the purpose of fighting. Centaurs will have as much to suffer under Voldemort as anyone, yet don't do anything until the last battle (for that matter, why don't centaurs interact with Muggles?). Apparently, the order of the Phoenix can't call upon any foreign powers for assistance. The wizarding population doesn't even consider the needs of giants and Dementors (they do care enough to stop Muggles from employing giants). And from what I understand, any modern Muggle battleforce could have slaughtered an army of wizards. And here I was hoping for an enormous team-up in the last book (Death Eaters+giants+Dementors+some goblins+some foreign powers vs order of the phoenix+centaurs+some goblins+UK military+freed house elves.
** Well, we saw parts of that in ''Hallows'': If I remember correctly, some Centaurs participated in the Battle of Hogwarts, as well as the Hogwarts House Elves. Voldemort had at least some Giants and a number of Dementors on his side.
*** Considering the elves: There are only two freed elves that we know of (Dobby and Winky), and the others are servants/slaves of the families that own them. Keeping the the general opinion on house elves in mind, it would have been like having your cook, maid, or gardener go into battle. (And no, not [[UnderSiege that Cook]])
*** Involving the British Armed Forces would be an egregious break of the Statute of Secrecy, and could open a really big can of worms. (Imagine that large parts of the military learn about the existence of magic... cue black ops laboratories that try to find out how wizards tick and how to militarize them.)
*** The British prime minister already knows about wizards, as do all previous ones. I don't really know how the British government works, but couldn't they simply have also revealed themselves to a general and made a friendly request for some guns? Or just take 'em without asking? Battling for the rights of Muggles and Muggle-borns in a drawn-out bloody battle seems kinda odd if the Muggles could end the battle within minutes. But no, keeping ourselves secret is more important than the potential enslavement of Britain.
*** For that matter, couldn't they have recruited some Muggle soldiers or police who are related to Muggleborns, so already know that magic exists? Surely some of them would be more open-minded than the Dursleys, and eager to defend both the Muggle and wizarding worlds, not to mention their own family members.
** Regarding Centaurs: According to the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Beasts_and_Where_to_Find_Them side-material]], the Centaurs have voluntarily separated themselves from humans due to past discrimination on the part of wizards who tried to classify them as "beasts".
*** Okay, let's just accept that guns don't work on wizards, OK? Otherwise, the whole story is null and void. They'd probably sense the gun and stop it, or else do accidental magic or something.
**** Except that if melee weapons and arrows work on them, then guns should as well. So yeah, the story is pretty much null and void.
**** WMG: involuntary magic is most effective against Muggles/Muggle technology. More likely theory: magic weapons. And no, you cannot enchant a gun. Magic screws up technology.
***** Problem with the whole 'guns don't work on wizards' is that WordOfGod has said that technology will beat magic every time.
**** Also, WordOfGod is that wizards have yet to create a magical means to stop bullets. A Death Eater can be stopped cold simply by shooting him. The problem is that wizards and witches live in such an insular society (and one that's in a notoriously anti-gun area) that you'll find very few of them who are able to even operate a gun without an instruction manual in front of them, let alone do it safely. As has been mentioned, the Statute of Secrecy means that magical folk try to minimize their footprint in the Muggle world specifically to avoid exploitation and prevent bigotry or politics between the two turning into actual, dangerous conflict. They only inform the Prime Minister because he's a very high authority in the government and is trusted with knowledge of magic (probably including very sobering knowledge of what would happen if word got out to the public) to let him help keep things secret. The more people you involve, the more questions get raised and the more leaks get out.
* Where were England's traditional allies during the War? Voldemort qualifies as a rebellion, shouldn't the Ministries of the US and France and the rest of Muggle England's allies be helping England's Ministry of Magic? In fact, the countries that Magical Britain seems to have diplomatic relations with all seem to be Eastern European countries (like Bulgaria) or small countries (Andora). Sure, Britain plays Quidditch with places like Uganda and such, but the West is pretty much never mentioned. Wizarding Britain must have done something to damage relations with them.
** FridgeHorror. That's what Voldy was up to in book five. Britain's the last unconquered Wizard Government left. Alternatively, those countries ''are'' helping, but a) they don't correspond in size, for whatever reason, to the Muggle countries they represent, and/or b) they just aren't doing much good.
** Maybe the other countries don't have a pureblood supremacy movement, and Britain is the backwards one in this case.
** I second that. Wizarding Britain seems to be somewhat Victorian in its attitudes, so the Americans are probably seen as 'uncivilized colonials' and real-world relations with France have been somewhat frosty in the past. Additionally, there wasn't much time for the English wizarding government to call for help: Fudge refused to acknowledge Voldemort's return and was occupied with discrediting Dumbledore and Harry. Scrimgeour was in office for about a year before Voldemort took over the ministry. Then there's the matter of pride ("We can solve our problems by ourselves!").
** It's pretty unusual for governments to intervene and stop revolutions in fully independent nations in real life (the main exceptions I can think of here are the Russian Civil War and the East/West proxy conflicts in Africa and Asia during the Cold War). Usually, nothing gets done until the new regime has been in place for decades, and then something else tips the balance towards action (say ,a conquering spree or a pile of bodies that's just a little bit too big to ignore anymore). And I'd say that we aren't given enough information on the geopolitics of the magical world to know what sort of governmental infrastructures even exist in the Wizarding World outside of Britain.
** SarcasmMode: If the Wizarding US are like the Muggle US, it could have been plausible for the US Wizard Government to order an invasion of Wizarding Britain during Book Seven, to eliminate the 'Dark Lord Threat' before it spreads to other parts of the world. (*Thinking* This sounds like a viable PlotBunny for a seventh year FanFic...)
*** This American Troper finds this offensive. Our country would never interfere with Britain's affairs! [[SelfDeprecation They aren't one of our main sources for imported oil.]]
*** Forget writing a fanfic about America intervening. Write one about why it doesn't.
**** Going to war would take a bipartisan effort.
** This troper doesn't recall anything in the 7th book indicating that Voldemort's rebellion had spread beyond the UK. In fact, this troper doesn't recall anything to indicate that the outside world even ''knew'' Voldemort was back. The Ministry warned the Muggle UK Prime Minister, but apart from that, it doesn't seem like they told anybody. And after Voldemort took over, he certainly wouldn't want the French or US wizard governments knowing about it, just in case they did decide to invade.
** Tyrants coming to power in a single state and the coup being given only bureaucratic attention by governments elsewhere unfortunately is TruthInTelevision. It's actually one of the most realistic thing about the last book. Far worse things have been done in the real world than what Voldemort was doing to England and its Muggles, Muggle-borns etc.
* Each nation on Earth apparently has its own Ministry of Magic or the equivalent. These are essentially self-governing, and have minimal contact with the Muggle governments of their respective countries. So what happens if a Muggle country breaks up, like happened to the U.S.S.R., or if two Muggle nations merge, as with Germany? Do their Ministries suddenly have to rearrange themselves in response to political changes that the wizarding world played no part in?
** Not necessarily. Who's to say that each Wizarding government directly mirrors it's muggle counterpart? Britain could be the odd man out in this regard. Maybe there is no German Ministry of Magic. Maybe in the Wizarding World Germany never unified and still exists as a jumble of small states, just like muggle Germany before 1871. Hell, maybe in the Wizarding half of the United States each state is its own independent nation and there is no federal government to hold them together. (It would explain why we never see or hear about any representatives from the United Wizarding States if there technically is no United Wizarding States.)
** Also, it seems like the small size of the magical community in general means that it would be quite rare for a large governing body to take hold in each country with a magical population. Britain appears to be a highly important magical community, with one of the most famous wandmakers in the world calling London his home and a large, very well-respected school of magic in the Scottish Highlands. Despite this, it seems very small by the standards for a country's population and Hogwarts doesn't seem to have more students than an average public high school despite being the only wizarding school in the entire United Kingdom (and thus the ONLY choice for anyone not going international). There probably just isn't a large enough community in many other nations to justify a full sized wizard government, rather than just having a representative for the International Confederation.
* If each country's Ministry of Magic (or whatever they call it) is responsible for hiding magical creatures within its jurisdiction, who's responsible for hiding sea serpents, or other critters that are found in international waters?
** The International Confederation of Wizards probably handles that.
* The whole statute of secrecy kind of bugs me, since not only do wizards hide themselves from Muggles, they also hide all magical creatures, which defies us all access to potion materials. Basically, Wizards aren't just hiding, they stop Muggles from ever getting access to any magic.
** Hagrid states outright in Philosopher's Stone that one of the primary reasons for TheMasquerade is basically to keep Muggles from bothering them too much with their problems.
--->'''Harry''' "But what does a Ministry of Magic ''do''?"
--->'''Hagrid''' "Well, their main job is to keep it from the Muggles that there's still witches and wizards up and down the country."
--->'''Harry''' "Why?"
--->'''Hagrid''' "Why? Blimey, Harry, everyone would be wanting magic solutions to their problems. Nah, we're best left alone."
*** No, my problem is not that the wizards are hiding because they don't want to solve our every problem, my problem is that they are hiding the stuff which would make us capable of solving our own problems.
**** How would Muggles solve their own problems if they had access to magical creatures/plants? They'd still need magical knowledge or a wizard's help to make anything useful. Also, it would be kind of hard for witches and wizards to remain hidden if the Muggles had to deal with goblins and centaurs prancing about blabbing about the Ministry of Magic and Hogwarts, wouldn't it?
***** For magical knowledge, that's what experimentation is for.
*** [[http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2006/0801-radiocityreading1.html JKR once said that if a Muggle picked up a wand, they wouldn't be able to use it properly, and that they couldn't brew a potion (despite Potions being "the most Muggle-friendly subject")]], which basically explains the need for a Statute of Secrecy. But, as noted elsewhere on this page, the Wizarding World is very traditionalist (many times to the point of stupidity), so it could be a bunch of antiquated anti-Muggle sentiment keeping it from being at least re-written.
*** That article explains a lot, although it is quite vague, as if the author hadn't decided yet.
**** This Troper always thought that "We don't want the Muggles to bother us with their problems" was the bowdlerized version they tell to kids. If the Muggle world would realized the existence of magic, no wizard would be safe any more: Witch-Hunts, Mengele-like experiments on wizards in government labs, etc. (Just compare the treatment of mutants in X-Men)
***** The X-Men scenario is one option, but it's also possible that the reveal of magical CREATURES such as dragons, goblins, or giants would create a different scenario, wherein the muggle population became aware of creatures they did not know to exist before (something that might not be as negative an impact as a human of greater power). As for wizards themselves being revealed, it's possible that would cause an X-Men like scenario, but it's also possible they would be immediately associated with the current (real-world) use of 'witchcraft', which almost unerringly is applied to Wicca and other pagan religions. It's not UN-likely that the first impulse would be to lump witches and wizards in with Wiccans, and that people who stuck their hands up later and said 'no, we really CAN do REAL magic' would be identified as delusional or attention-seeking, and that the wizard world would be treated much as it has been - as something that isn't realistic or doesn't exist. The fact of the matter is that in order for witch-hunts the like of what we saw in Salem to even be possible, most people would have to be strictly Christian and to take 'thou shalt not suffer a witch to live' as a direct command from God. Even now, most Christian sects do not take this stance toward other religions. The reason it is more plausible in the X-Men is because the majority belief now is in evolution, which is fueled by natural mutation like what the X-Men display, and as such there would be more easily manipulated convictions based in science than there would be based in religion. Evangelical Christians are the most vocal, but not the most numerous individuals out there, and would be the most likely nemesis of real witches and wizards.
****** Let's be honest. The real reason nobody persecutes Wiccans is because ''no one believes their ridiculous claims about knowing magic spells''. If Muggles were made aware of REAL magic, the response would be quite different. After all, the reason the Bible considers witchcraft sinful and immoral is because of ''what it can do'', not just because it is allegedly a product of a pact with Satan. If magic were real, society would be utterly unable to tolerate it. How do you live next to a person you know could make your house burst into flame with a word? How do you deal with people who can read and control minds at will and without any physical trace that they've done so? You can't. The only rational response is to either wipe them out or forcibly segregate them from the rest of society (and by "segregate" I mean "move them to another continent", not "put them in a ghetto").
******* Given apparition and portkeys, "wipe them out" is the only option.
**** Hell, Muggle society can barely even stand different races that are no different from each other without devolving into genocide. Imagine what racism would be like if that other race actually had innate powers that could threaten the safety of your property and life and was so easy that a simple word and wave of an innocuous stick could perform it? Even a young child has access to magic that can seriously injure someone; imagine a moody teenager [[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheHalfBloodPrince delivering a Sectumsempra on a bully, perhaps?]] And the aforementioned attempts to figure out how wizards "tick", which takes very little to go straight to unscrupulous governments kidnapping and performing painful torture and gruesome experiments on witches and wizards. We've already seen how Squibs can be moody due to being part of magical society without having any magical ability. What would happen if that resentment and jealousy ended up being applied to the 99.9% of the population that had no magic? I guarantee that within less than a year you'd have news stories of nutbags draining wizards of their blood or disemboweling them to consume their innards to try and gain magic (and even worse, actual government experiments on that exact thing). Conflict between wizards and Muggles brings in added fear that the magical people will use their strange and seemingly unlimited powers to cast horrible things (even schoolchildren in Hogwarts are seen causing [[{{Squick}} bats to fly out of people's noses]] or instantly paralyzing them as part of simple childhood fights that Muggles would resolve with a punch or two to the nose), which gives the impression that any Muggle would gingerly treat a wizard the same way that you'd treat an angry man who you knew was carrying a gun and willing to use it frivolously even in minor arguments. It's good fanfic fodder, but not a good ''idea''.
***** You know what is written above? A comprehensive summary of the "Muggle Studies" course, taught to the students of Hogwarts by professor Carrow in the year 17 AP (Anno Potter). It is pretty much an elaboration on the briefer summary given by Neville Longbottom: "We’ve all got to listen to her explain how Muggles are like animals, stupid and dirty, and how they drive wizards into hiding by being vicious toward them". I'm not going to argue the accuracy of that viewpoint, for another thing's been bugging me. If this viewpoint is not just propaganda and villification of non-wizes on part of Death Eaters, if it is not restricted to a few narrow-minded bigots, but it is in fact an adopted and common, if unspoken, outlook of the wizard society in general, then '''what exactly were the Death Eaters WRONG about''', and how was the "good guys" opposing them not hypocrytical? If we put aside the superficial cartoonishly-evil appearence, they are simply proactive and are willing to engage the problem directly rather then beat around the bush and short-sightedly hope that the WeirdnessCensor and casual MindRape will stave the confrontation off forever, like the "good guys" do. Sure, their methods are extreme and brutal, but that's to be expected when they are in the minority and the majority, including the authorities stubbornly persists in self-deluded denial of their rightness.
* This doesn't really bug me, but I was just wondering if the Muggle bureaucracy even knows that wizards exist - not in the sense that they know Ron Weasley is a Wizard, but in the sense that they know a boy named Ron Weasley exists who was born in whatever year. Do wizards have whatever the British equivalent of social security numbers are? And of course, that relates to another question; just how much population is flying under the radar? Also, presumably Muggle-borns are registered in the system, but what about half-bloods where one parent is a Muggle? What about THEIR kids?
*** Probably not. Wizards existing in the records of Muggle bureaucracies opens up a whole slew of problems. For instance, who keeps these records? I can't see wizards doing it, given their strong cultural bias against doing anything in close proximity to Muggles. So they would have to be kept by Muggles. What happens if some Muggle bureaucrat is going through the records and starts finding more and more people who apparently don't exist? Does the Ministry of Magic keep a full-time company of Aurors on hand to memory-wipe any Muggle who stumbles upon the records? No, the alternative is much more likely. The names and births of wizards don't exist in Muggle records, with the exception of muggle-borns or wizards who are publicly visible to Muggles (i.e. Squibs, wizards who've had their wands snapped, or wizards whose profession involves regular contact with Muggles), and the records of the latter are probably forged. Half-blood wizards are ''probably'' registered (it would be hard to keep them secret from the Muggle side of the family), but not their children. As far as the Muggle government is concerned, half-blood wizards grow up, move away, and die alone and unloved.
**** What do you mean, people who apparently don't exist? All wizards except those in Hogsmeade have Muggle neighbors. Even the Weasleys in Ottery St. Catchpole. Muggleborns and half-bloods don't drop off the face of Muggle Earth. Wizards may not mingle with their Muggle neighbors much, but an inspector looking to confirm the existence of Ron Weasley or Marvolo Gaunt would succeed in doing so. And aversion to working with Muggles? They're in contact with the Prime Minister.
***** I mean people who exist on paper but have never been seen or heard from by anyone else. If a record of a person named Ron Weasley existed in a muggle database but no muggle had ever seen him, people would start to suspect some kind of fraud. And if huge volumes of records start being found of people who seem to only exist on paper, people would start to suspect a vast conspiracy. Also, you're wrong. All wizards outside of Hogsmeade ''do not'' have muggle neighbors. The Weasleys may technically be attached to a village (a fictional one, BTW) but they live way out in the boonies with not a soul around for miles. There's no indication in the books that they have any contact with muggle residents of Ottery St. Catchpole, assuming there are any. And there are undoubtedly many other "wizard only" villages similar to Hogsmeade all over the UK and around the world. As I said, wizards who are ''publicly visible'' to muggles might have some minimal paper trail in the muggle world, and that would include those who (by choice or otherwise) live amongst muggles. But there's no reason for the rest of them to appear in muggle records. It would only threaten TheMasquerade. And lastly, the only reason the Ministry of Magic stays in contact with the muggle Prime Minister is because they have to. If complete separation were possible I'm sure that's what they would do.
** The reason Hagrid gives for keeping the Muggles in the dark is what bugs me. Apparently, magic is so wonderful that it can't possibly be shunned as a solution like every other new and scary thing exposed to the masses. There are still plenty of people who refuse to touch a computer! "Well, I never needed a wand to look after my house, and I had more kids than this Weasley person!"
*** Hagrid's answer is likely a) something he came up with on the fly, b) something he's not given a lot of thought before, and c) a drastically simplified answer given to an eleven-year-old boy who's just discovered that wizards exist. Explaining the social and political ramifications of the fall of TheMasquerade to a child (potential violent response from Muggles, social unrest, demands to access to magical artifacts for scientific study, cruelty to magical creatures/beings, etc.) when you're not that well-educated yourself is probably pretty difficult.
*** But those computer-phobes are decreasing every year. The same would no doubt hold true for magic.
*** Conclusion: the masquerade is useless.
*** The thing is, a computer isn't magic. A computer can't let you instantly cause someone to simply die with absolutely no markings or signs of death beyond "They're dead" and thus confounding all attempts to find a murderer, or let you cause excruciating pain, or let you control someone's mind with nothing but a wave of a stick and the desire to do so. A computer can't let you turn a man's face into a pufferfish, or instantly paralyze him. It can't let you con people by inventing items out of thin air and selling them before they naturally disappear. Or teleport. Or make benign objects fly or gain sentience. And what a computer does is ''known'' and ''finite.'' People who are dumb or out of touch think computers can do things that they really can't, but even then they have some idea of what limits are and aren't ridiculous. Magic? Even wizards and witches don't know everything any more than Muggles 100% understand science. To a Muggle, magic is an unknowable force that lets it user (even a small child) do amazing and terrible things. Not only would they be demanding magical solutions to common problems because "You lot can do it with just a silly word, right?" but they'd also be terrified of what someone with magic might do. As is said above, what would you feel about living next to someone who can turn your house into kindling with a muttered word, or turn you into a ferret because of a minor dispute? It would be terrifying for Muggles to try and live among a minority that has unknowable and awesome powers, and would result in tremendous fear and discrimination.
* Exactly how does the Ministry of Magic handle matters between the wizarding society and Muggle Britain. For example, let's say that a Muggle aware of the Masquerade is invited to a social function containing mostly wizards and ends up killing most of them. Do the wizards take matter into their own hands and have to figure a way to explain his disappearance to the authorities, or do they simply report to Muggle police while trying their best to hide the fact that they are members of a secret community of actual wizards and witches? Also, how do squibs integrate into Muggle society if they presumably have no National Insurance number or birth certificate that would be recognized as legitimate?
** The answer to all your questions is magical forgery. If a muggle kills a bunch of wizards, the wizards convict him in their own courts, then literally conjure up evidence indicating he actually killed a bunch of Muggles, modify his memory so that he believes that he killed a bunch of Muggles, and then turn the killer over to the Muggle government. If a Squib decides to go off and live with the Muggles, the Ministry of Magic magics up all the documentation they need. Or alternatively, they ''don't'' do this, and the Squib ends up living on the streets as a crazy beggar.
** Presumably have no birth certificate why? Wouldn't all wizards have them, so that they can prove their existence (as Muggles) to the Muggle government?
*** This presumes that all Muggles have birth certificates, but guess what? There are a lot of people who don't have them and [[LiesDamnLiesAndStatistics a good 70%]] probably have never and will never see the actual document, since it's filed away in a government office somewhere near their birthplace.
** Also, people disappear all the time. In 2001, over 50,000 adults disappeared without a trace. If the wizarding world wanted to punish a Muggle for a crime against wizards, it would be trivial to simply grab them and remove any forensic evidence (and even if the Muggle authorities can follow a trail, we've already established in canon that wizards can easily hide ''entire villages, castles, and districts of a large city'' from Muggle eyes, let alone wizarding courts and prisons). They'd never be seen again and simply presumed to have either been kidnapped and dismembered far from home or intentionally went off the grid and are either dead or living elsewhere under a pseudonym.
* While veritaserum isn't used in courts because it can be circumvented, why not use pensieves to establish that the testimony isn't a lie? Or why not have witnesses make an Unbreakable Vow to the judge to not lie for the duration of them being on the stand? Of course, neither would establish that the testimony is ''factual'', since memories can be modified via magic, but establishing that the witness isn't lying would be extremely useful.
** It's never really established how widespread pensieves are in this world. For all we know, Dumbledore has one because a previous Headmaster of Hogwarts created it and left it for Headmasters only. If, however, they are widespread enough for commercial use, it's entirely possible that the way veritaserum is bypassed can bypass pensive memories as well. Unbreakable Vows, on the other hand, might be really bad, as, if I remember correctly, if you break one, you die. That would be bad in the courtroom for lying about something small on accident. Unfortunately, even if phrased correctly as an oath of truth, it could probably still be bypassed by the above method of fooling veritaserum. The fact that a truth serum can be bypassed usually means there's a magical method to completely fool one's perspective of the truth. In that case, there would be no way to get the truth unless there's a way to prevent the method.
*** Well, I would presume that the British Ministry would have enough resources to get a single one to be used at trials. As for bypassing the truth serum, according to WordOfGod, "he [Barty Crouch Jr.] might have sealed his own throat [to prevent swallowing it] and faked a declaration of innocence, transformed the Potion into something else before it touched his lips, or employed Occlumency against its effects", so those techniques couldn't be used against a pensieve or the vow. And when Slughorn tried to tamper with his extracted memory, it was obvious that it had been altered. And as for dying from breaking the vow: 1) the vow could be worded along the lines of "I swear to not ''intentionally'' lie" to prevent death from accidents, and 2) I don't think people would be willing to die in order to lie over minor matters.
*** What really gets me is that their solution to the possibility of veritaserum failure is simply to take testimony without any veritaserum. So, because there is a method of interrogation that can possibly be suborned with significant effort, it is then cast aside and instead they use... a method that can be suborned by the simple effort of opening one's mouth and lying? Refusal to use a method because it's imperfect only makes sense if the alternative is more reliable; otherwise, it might not be ideal, ''but it's still better than nothing''. As for the WordOfGod in question; in that very same paragraph, Rowling also mentions that the reason veritaserum ''did'' work on Barty Crouch was because he was 'groggy' at the time he was dosed and thus unable to perform any tricks. The solution is thus obvious; feed the interrogatee a stunner (or some type of confundus or disorienting charm, if you just want to daze them momentarily), force-feed Veritaserum, then enervate.
**** Veritaserum is not better than nothing because it lends a sense of false confidence to the interogation. It is easily understood that the person being questioned may lie, but people may have a harder time accepting that if they've been dosed with veritaserum.
***** That depends on how they use it. If Veritaserum is used so that a confession is treated as proof that it works on the suspect but no confession is not proof that it doesn't then it can be a basic screening method to save a lot of time and effort. The only flaw I can see in this is that it wouldn't detect people confessing to things that they did not do but I think that would only happen in a minority of cases when the person who took the Veritaserum either had a thing for confessing to things they didn't do or if they were trying to protect the person who did commit the crime or who they believed to have committed the crime.
*** Think about this in terms of the Muggle equivalent: do you really think execution is an appropriate punishment for perjury, in EVERY instance? What if you were a witness to a murder, had been through unspeakable horrors, and after therapy agreed to testify at the trial, only to be drugged, threatened with death if your accounts were imperfect or you told a white fib (e.g. "I was on that street to pick up the dry cleaning, not buy sex toys..."), made to give up your private memories and experiences to be scrutinized by strangers, and treated with extreme suspicion and disrespect. Do you think your testimony would be the best quality and calmest it could be?
*** On that note, who WOULD testify if they knew that they would be put through such danger for it? If you were aware that testifying meant being put under a death sentence for even a minor lie meant to protect your reputation or safety and had your very brain poked and prodded for information, would you want to show up in court? Hell, would you even trust a government that's so willing to execute its citizens or invade their most private life for a common criminal conviction?
* Okay, here's something that really bothers me. The wizarding world seems to have no semblance of a military. I mean, sure, there's the Aurors and Order of the Phoenix, but they seem more like police/intelligence, so there's really no military. Also, Rowling said herself that a human with a shotgun would win every time over a wizard with a wand. Doesn't this seem like it would put the "Muggle sympathizers" in the story at a distinct 'advantage' to Voldemort, or at least his cronies? Sure, fewer people in Britain have guns than in the US, but they're not impossible to get, killing curses could be defended against with simple riot shields[[hottip:*:although a given riot shield would probably only work once]], etc. Also, considering that the wizarding world is run by the "Ministry of Magic," and assuming that all wizards are still loyal to Britain, wouldn't the fact that one of their ministers had been 'deposed' by some magic Hitler-wannabe set off a bunch of red flags for the British government? Forget Britain's allies turning a blind eye. The British Military could have, and should have, handled this instead of forcing it on a 17-year-old, even if he is a wizard.
** It was more an off-the-cuff remark about Muggle vs. Wizard, she didn't particularly think it through. There is evidence through the series that wizards aren't much threatened by guns.
** Not only that, but the Order of the Phoenix is NOT international, and it was mentioned that they were unable to get foreign help.
** What are you going to do about the British Military being sent in to kill a ''wizard''? The Statue of Secrecy is there for a reason: keep the knowledge of magic away from the public eye to prevent wizards and witches from being exploited or abused. Even if you justified Voldemort and his Death Eaters as terrorists, what are you going to do when they start flinging magic? Swear the entire unit to secrecy? That's proven to not work 100%. And since Death Eaters seem to live and operate in populated areas or at least the countryside of first-world countries, how are you ever going to keep that operation secret and keep it from having collateral damage?
** On the subject of a wizarding military, they don't ''need'' one. The biggest threat to the wizarding world from actual magic users in the past ''centuries'' has been smaller than some street gangs in number and has no advantages in power, number, or equipment over the wizarding police force. The only thing that made Death Eaters difficult to combat has been their leader's effective immortality, and they likely could have quashed that if they had access to the necessary intelligence regarding the horcruxes (otherwise it wouldn't have been handled by some rogue teenagers hiding from Voldemort's government, who had to operate with intelligence gained from one of the most powerful wizards in history who was specifically fighting Voldemort outside of government circles).
* How enforcement of underage magic is handled bugs me. The way the trace works is that they can't tell if you did magic, only if someone did magic near you, right? Given the Ministry's history of pure-blood supremacy, it doesn't really surprise me that they'd go after Muggle-borns and those raised by Muggles while relying on the parents to enforce it in pure-blood households. However, what about households with Muggle parents and more than one wizarding child (ie the Creevey brothers). If Colin Creevey sets off a hovering charm, say, then how will the ministry know to punish him and not Dennis? And what about when one sibling is of Hogwarts age but the other is still quite young and in the "Doing magic by accident" phase? What then?
** You forget about "Priori Incantem". Yeah, sure, they don't use it in Chamber of Secrets, but that's bureaucracy to you - always going for the simplest and most formal approach.
*** Of course, the one time we see that spell used in the books, it provides evidence against someone innocent (the culprit had taken another person's wand). But it would work in that particular accidental-magic case.
** How many times have kids in RealLife gotten away with false accusations against their siblings? A fair few. So witches and wizards have to deal with the same problem…
** They target Muggle-borns because they can't tell if a family with of-age wizards have underage wizards breaking the law (they rely on the parents to enforce it within wizard households). It's a magical blind-spot that would be the case with or without their suspicion of Muggle-borns.
** '''Question:''' Why did the Ministry try to expel Harry after Dobby used a hover charm in book 2, but NOT when Arthur Weasley used magic to blast the Dursleys' fireplace open a few books later?\\
'''Answer:''' Because in the second case, the Ministry ''knew Arthur was going to be in the house''. He had to get special permission to temporarily connect the Dursley house to the floo network, so any magic detected by the trace during that time-frame would have been disregarded by the Ministry as the work of the adult wizard Arthur Weasley. On the other hand, the Ministry had no idea Dobby was in the Dursley house so they naturally assumed that any magic detected in Harry's vicinity must have been cast by him. Extrapolating from this logic, if a muggle family gave birth to two or more wizard children then any magic detected in their house would have to be investigated before either could be punished. And that would be as easy as sending an Auror over to the house and casting Priori Incantem on both their wands.
* So, if the Ministry has a special quill that records the names of all magical children in Britain at their birth, why, oh WHY, do they not bother to tell the parents of any wizard child born to Muggles that their child has magical powers ''until they are 11 freakin' years old?!'' Wouldn't it make a hell of a lot more sense and be much kinder to give those poor parents at least a few years to get used to the idea that their child is going to have super powers and be accepted into a fantastic and bizarre hidden society where they'll only be allowed to see them for 3 months a year for 7 years of their teenage life, instead of just casually dumping this life-altering and world-view shattering revelation on them all at once a mere month or two before it begins? Not to mention, how many Muggle-born wizard children do you think have been needlessly traumatized or institutionalized by people that think they're crazy because the wizard government never thought it was necessary to warn their parents that, oh hey, your kid might accidentally bend and/or break the rules of physics with magic every now and then, don't worry though, cause it's perfectly normal?
** It fails the Law of Drama, you need the CallToAdventure to come as a shock, not as something that the protagonist has been groomed for for all his/her life. As for in universe reasons... I guess the Wizarding world's prejudice against Muggle-borns also extends to the Muggle-born's ''parents''; not telling them them that their child is magical until the last moment possible (after which said child is immediately removed from the parents to be immersed practically full-time in the magical culture) has the effect of neatly locking out the parents from the Wizarding world. If you tell the parents that their kids are magical from birth, presumably they can meet with with other such parents during the pre-Hogwarts years and worm their way into the Wizarding culture, and before you know it, there would be this subpopulation of Muggle parents running around the magical world, and that's probably a little too much multiculturalism for the old-fashioned wizards.
*** Only Harry (being the protagonist of the series) needed the Law of Drama, and he ''got'' it from the Dursleys purposefully trying to quash any and all opportunities for him to learn about the wizarding world (and it took Hagrid bursting in to overcome their efforts). There's no excuse for anyone else.
** I think the above response is on the cynical end of things. On the other end, there's: a) By eleven, the kids have produced some weird events that can be used as proof to persuade the parents that you're not insane. Think about it; what would you think if Some Dude appeared and said "Hey, that baby you're holding? Magical powers. Totally not crazy. Not a joke. Prepare yourselves. Also, we'll be back in eleven years to take him away. Ta ta." Versus "Hey, you know all those crazy things your kid does? Magic. Only explanation for it." Yes, the person could demonstrate for proof, but that could be "eyes playing tricks" or "temporary insanity," whereas the children's tricks usually have non-family witnesses, have been building up for years, and aren't looked on with serious suspicion from the beginning. b) To discourage children from purposefully escalating their "accidental" magic displays. We learn towards the end of the series that some experimentation is not unusual, but think about how much more there would be if the children knew how and why they did these things. It legitimizes it and opens up the opportunity for messing around to get a leg up before school starts. Yes, wizarding families' children do know, but if they experiment like that, it's unlikely to be around Muggles and they have more people to slap them on the wrist and teach them The Rules.
** They get their ''Hogwarts acceptance letter'' a week before they turn 11. (Incidentally, it's also entirely possible the whole 'birthday' thing is a coincidence. Students might just have to respond a month before school starts, and a letter gets sent a week before that if they have failed to do so.) But we have no evidence Muggle-born aren't introduced to the Wizarding world well in advance of that. What people forget is Harry Potter is not Muggle-born. His parents were Wizards, and it's probably pretty unlikely for a Wizard to be sent to live with Muggle relatives. Presumably, he slipped through the cracks, either accidentally, on purpose thanks to Dumbledore's meddling, or simply because the Dursleys threw any wizards out of their house before Harry saw them.
*** I think we're given some evidence that the Muggleborn students haven't been introduced to the wizarding world well in advance. Justin was supposed to go to Eton until he got his letter and if he'd known for years they wouldn't have made plans to send him there (or at least he wouldn't still be talking about it years later). Colin babbled about how shocked they were when he got his Hogwarts letter and so did Hermione. If these people had known that they were wizards for longer than a month or so than they'd be well used to the idea and have likely spent enough time in Diagon Alley or around other wizards that they'd be much less...bubbling. Harry Potter might as well ''be'' Muggleborn for all the good having wizard parents did. Dean isn't Muggleborn and presumably there have been other cases of magical children being raised by Muggle relatives who aren't their parents. Tom Riddle wasn't Muggleborn and he got the same sort of treatment as Harry did. In fact, it actually shows that he had never heard of magic being real before he got his letter so I think that's even stronger proof that Muggleborn students find out around the time Harry does. And it makes so much more sense to send the notes out at the same time rather than doing it a week before their eleventh birthday. Hermione's birthday is in September so should she find out a year before she can actually go to Hogwarts? Where's the sense in that? It's also so much more work to remember (or magic it) to send letters out periodically to students whose birthday it's approaching than to do it all at once.
**** Concerning Hermione, this might be FridgeBrilliance. Remember how she's a year older than Harry and Ron because she waited a year to find out about the wizarding world and reading books and stuff? While she was happy to do so, maybe she just ''had to'' because she got her acceptance letter just a little to late and her parents had already planned something for the year!
***** Hermione's birthday is in September. Most schools have a cutoff date for when the student-to-be has to be a certain age, which was likely before the start of term (September 1st) for Hogwarts.
** The policy not to alert Muggle parents about their children's potential might date back a long way, to an era when there'd be no guarantee a newborn wizard or witch would ''survive'' to age 11. Child mortality was sky-high for most of human history; better to wait until they're sure the child will live long enough to come to Hogwarts before the family is informed.
*** I have to agree on the suggestion that it's to keep children from abusing their power. Look at Tom Riddle as a boy, and how his cleverness let him quickly find out that he had powers and could use them to get what he wanted. What's going to happen to a child in a Muggle household that's told from an early age that he has magic powers? What's going to happen with parents that learn that their child is magical and try to take advantage of them, raising them to hone their powers to solve their problems through magical means?
* Given that the books say more than once that many witches and wizards are half-blood or muggle-born, otherwise the wizarding world would be dying out, why is it that the head of the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts department doesn't get almost everything muggle? Ditto most of the wizarding population. You would think everyone would know someone they could ask questions concerning muggle stuff.
** What gets me is how Mr. Weasley and his kids keep mispronouncing the names of Muggle technologies, even after they've heard Harry say them correctly. Isn't proper enunciation something that's drilled into young wizards in every spell-casting course from Day One? They ''have'' to pronounce spells correctly for them to work, so should have a good ear for words in general.
*** Do YOU pronounce new words properly 100% of the time as soon as you hear them?
* Harry grows up to head the Auror office, and Ron becomes one too. This is rather surprising given their record of breaking rules when it suits them.
** Exactly, then they'll know all the criminal's dirty tricks, perfect. The bigger question is which one of them will turn into Gene Hunt.
** Oh come on now. Breaking rules when it suits them? Sheesh. The way you tell it you'd think Harry and Ron were hardened criminals by age 12. First of all, whatever rule-breaking they did was almost always for the greater good. I hardly think that breaking rules to ''save lives'' should be held against them. In fact, I think it's safe to say that ''every single instance'' of Harry and Ron breaking the rules at Hogwarts was:\\
A) justified by extenuating circumstances,\\
B) a minor infraction blown completely out of proportion by the adult characters,\\
C) harmless juvenile mischief,\\
or D) an innocent mistake by a couple of kids who didn't know any better.
*** You're right. It was ''after'' they grew up and became Aurors, that they began to break rules when it suits them, like mind-raping driving instructors to get a licence. Huh, I guess it's true what they say: it always '''starts''' with doing it for greater good.
*** Forgive my rudeness, but what in the Hell are you even talking about?
**** Ron admitting he Confounded his instructor to get a driving license in the epilogue. Although, we don't need to go that far, of course. How about Harry using an unauthorized and unverified book of magic to get ahead in his classes, which nearly lead to the death of his fellow student? Which of the four categories would you put that instance under?
***** Ron's actions easily fall into category B) and arguably also A). The Confundus charm is hardly a "mind-rape", and if you'll go back and read that epilogue again you'll see that Ron only Confunded the driving instructor to make him forget a minor mistake with his side-mirror. And Ron himself pointed out that in a real-life driving situation he would have cast a Supersensory Charm anyway. As for Harry's use of the Half-Blood Prince book, a couple of things. Firstly, "unauthorized and unverified"? It was a ''textbook'', not the Necronomicon. And it was ''given to Harry by his professor'' if you'll recall. So what exactly makes it "unauthorized"? The fact that it's annotated? Most of the textbooks I owned in college were used books full of notes left by previous students. And sure enough, some of those notes helped me better understand the material and get ahead in my classes. Does that mean I cheated my way through college? Of course not. Secondly, Harry had no idea and ''no reason to assume'' that any of the spells written in the book were dangerous. In fact all the ones he tried up until Sectumsempra seemed to be harmless amusements. The fact that Sectumsempra was actually capable of killing anyone was a complete surprise. And after Harry cast the spell on Draco ''he was crippled with guilt and shame'' and started looking at the book with a more fearful eye from that point on. So I would put Harry's use of the book squarely in the D) category with a heavy helping of a new category I've just made up:\\
E) the person making this complaint needs to pay better attention to the books.
*** On another note, I think that any of Harry and Ron's schoolboy rule breaking would have been overlooked by the fact that they ''stopped the most notorious dark wizard known to mankind when they were teenagers''. Any questions about them being poor cops because of their school record are made moot by the fact that most of this record comes from ''saving the world.''
* This was the only category that I can think of to properly sort this complaint into, but: why do so many wizards act like a FishOutOfWater? The Statue of Secrecy is pretty important, but they don't do anything to teach wizards how to act among muggles. And it's not like that's difficult. Here is the pamphlet:
** Dress in Muggle clothing. See figure one for standard wardrobes, sorted by gender. women may wear men's clothes, but the reverse is not true.
*** Theoretically this could work, but it would require extensive research by the Ministry (or someone) of Muggle fashion trends, and it would have to be updated regularly as Muggle fashions change, ''and'' it would have to include explanations of certain social dress codes (you don't want a wizard showing up at a fancy restaurant in a pair of jeans and an old t-shirt, for instance). That kind of research is something no one in the Wizarding World can apparently be bothered with. On the rare occasions they must interact with Muggles it's simpler to just grab a box full of assorted Muggle clothes and throw them on.
*** Pottermore goes into more detail on this: wizards tend to pick a fashion style, then spend decades insulated in wizarding society (which has a well-established prejudice against Muggles and tends to be slow to adopt new pop culture and technology) and come out wearing clothes that are out of date or even downright anachronistic. Some witches and wizards even intentionally wear ridiculous outfits to screw around. It doesn't help that Muggle fashion sense changes within a decade or less.
** Don't gawk at things muggles aren't gawking at. Act like muggle objects are mundane for you.
*** While that is good advice for wizards, actually putting it into practice is another matter. In real life, tourists are often told by travel experts not to act (or dress) like tourists in foreign countries because it can make them the targets of criminals. Yet they still do it.
** Pay using Muggle money. If necessary, there is a goblin in Gringotts who will give you Pounds for Galleons.
*** They do pay using Muggle money. It's figuring out what is essentially foreign currency that they have a problem with. TruthInTelevision.
** And remember that Loose Lips Crash Broomsticks. Don't mention magic in any way, shape, or form.
*** Easier said than done. Magic is an essential part of their lives and they're used to talking about it freely. Not everyone can manage such strict self-discipline without training.
** See how easy that was?
*** The office of Muggle Relations probably has one, but considering the insular attitudes and smug superiority of wizards, I have a hard time seeing that pretty much anyone would pick one up. Also, Wizarding Britain is a radically different culture from Muggle Britain. Acting like you belong in a completely different culture is not something you learn to do overnight. It can take years or decades, if it is at all possible.
**** Your first point is completely valid, your fourth slightly less, considering how pervasive magic is in Wizarding Britain, but I'll grant it. Remembering to exchange your money is a valid point as such, but the question is which is more likely to breach the masquerade, someone who tries to exchange gold for goods or services, or someone who doesn't know how to tell what denomination paper money is and thinks there are 493 pence to a pound. As for gawking, I gawked a LOT the first time I visited London, definitely enough to make me stand out in a crowd, and I come from a city in a similar culture. How do you think someone from a rural part of Africa or Asia, who has never been further away from home than the nearest village would react to seeing London, even if he/she had seen London on TV? Yeah, like that.
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