Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / HarryPotterGovernment

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** As far as states which have evolved due to differing theological reasons, while religion seems to exist in the wizarding world, it seems so much more secular and tolerant (specifically regarding religion, not regarding other things) than the muggle world. It is quite possible that a Two State Solution already exists for magical Israel and Palestine, rather than reflecting an earlier version of the muggle jurisdiction of the territory (because as someone said earlier, most countries seem to mirror their current day muggle geographies for the most part). Furthermore, Isreal and the Islamic nations probably cooperate much better than their muggle counterparts. The knowledge of magic binding these nations together could make them believe that God has a shared, benevolent purpose for them, so there's no reason to spill blood unlike their less-enlightened muggle fellows.

to:

** As far as states which have evolved due to differing theological reasons, while religion seems to exist in the wizarding world, it seems so much more secular and tolerant (specifically regarding religion, not regarding other things) than the muggle world. It is quite possible that a Two State Solution already exists for magical Israel and Palestine, rather than reflecting an earlier version of the muggle jurisdiction of the territory (because as someone said earlier, most countries seem to mirror their current day muggle geographies for the most part). Furthermore, Isreal and the Islamic wizarding nations probably cooperate much better than their muggle counterparts. The knowledge of magic binding these nations together could make them believe that God has a shared, benevolent purpose for them, so there's no reason to spill blood unlike their less-enlightened muggle fellows.

Added: 389

Changed: 300

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
answering headscratchers


** An explanation I saw in a fanfic is that foreign governments won't intervene until the British ministry asks for aid and the ministry won't ask due to a combination of HeadInTheSandManagement and the risk of the foreign help sticking around long after Voldemort has been dealt with. But I agree that it being seen as an internal issue by the rest of the world is the most likely answer.




to:

** My uncle was a troublemaker as a teenager and even got expelled. He now works for the military because no employer cares if you broke school rules or caused mischief as long as none of what you did was illegal. And the actual illegal things Ron and Harry did can be justified due to circumstances.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Inconsistency in government regulation is TruthInTelevision. Example: Drugs. Marijuana is illegal in all 50 American states (edit: well, not any more), yet alcohol and tobacco are not. Another example: I once read an article about a UK law that would ban beer over a certain alcohol content, yet that content was actually lower than the alcohol content of absinthe, which is not banned in Britain.

to:

** Inconsistency in government regulation is TruthInTelevision. Example: Drugs. Marijuana is illegal in all 50 many American states (edit: well, not any more), states, yet alcohol and tobacco are not.legal in all 50 states. Another example: I once read an article about a UK law that would ban beer over a certain alcohol content, yet that content was actually lower than the alcohol content of absinthe, which is not banned in Britain.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The one who said "wizards sticking their heads in the sand" is closest to correct. The way the book portrayed, it was that Voldemort's rule was so accepted because no-one really knew whether or not it was really ''him'' in control, and no-one particularly wanted to know, as that would get them in trouble. If he had openly seized power all at once, there would have been rebellion, but he did not. Actually, his finesse in the matter reminds me of [[StarWars Palpatine]] and the whole Clone Wars bit. Only the Order knew definitively that the Ministry had fallen, and they didn't move because many of them were still in the Ministry, and could work from the inside out, but most of the citizenry just wanted everything to be okay and move about their business without getting rounded up.

to:

** The one who said "wizards sticking their heads in the sand" is closest to correct. The way the book portrayed, it was that Voldemort's rule was so accepted because no-one really knew whether or not it was really ''him'' in control, and no-one particularly wanted to know, as that would get them in trouble. If he had openly seized power all at once, there would have been rebellion, but he did not. Actually, his finesse in the matter reminds me of [[StarWars [[Franchise/StarWars Palpatine]] and the whole Clone Wars bit. Only the Order knew definitively that the Ministry had fallen, and they didn't move because many of them were still in the Ministry, and could work from the inside out, but most of the citizenry just wanted everything to be okay and move about their business without getting rounded up.

Added: 544

Changed: 14

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** I’m not British so I can be wrong, I don’t get how things in the UK works but, if I understand correctly Voldermort is British. So if Britain has some problem with a domestic terrorist (I mean a terrorist that is a British person) does the UK would ask NATO to kill the guy? Or would use the Army for that matter?

to:

** I’m not British so I can may be wrong, I don’t get how things in the UK works but, if I understand correctly Voldermort Voldemort is British. So if Britain has some problem with a domestic terrorist (I mean a terrorist that is a British person) does that mean the UK would ask NATO to kill the guy? Or would they use the Army army for that matter?matter?
** Yes, Voldemort is British and a domestic terrorist. In terms of the UK government response for (muggle) domestic terrorists, they would not rely on NATO (mind you they are a member state of that organisation) but rather handle it themselves. Usually the response would be to call in counterterrorism teams in the police units, such as for the Metropolitan Police. However, depending on the severity of the threat, they have been known to deploy the very best the British Military has to offer (SAS in the Iranian Embassy seige, for example).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The Death Eaters were wrong because they were genocidal maniacs who believed that anyone with non-magical ancestry should be killed so that the two worlds could be completely separate. Not only were their methods deeply immoral, but also doomed from the start -- the fact that Muggle-borns exist means that if there was no contact between the worlds, the Muggle world would eventually find magic on its own through Muggle-borns and the same problem would happen, only the Muggle could objectively cite the wizards' violent actions and disregard for human life as reasons to fight them. Because the thing is, the Muggle population is a giant sleeping bear, and the Death Eaters' tactics would essentially end up poking them with a stick. The protagonists were presumably reluctant to seek non-magical assistance because they were concerned with the time after victory, in which they believed that a wizarding world without Death Eaters or widespread Muggle knowledge was the best end condition. Besides, the protagonists (and Dumbledore, and J.K. Rowling, I believe) have a higher view of human nature. I suspect that they believe that in the event that magic was exposed, the best defense the wizards could use would be a PR blitz that shows that they are not a threat, combined with some signs of goodwill. Recall that in the very least, the Prime Minister of Britain knows about them, so if the government was going to do something horribly unethical, they'd have started by now. It would take a lot for the non-magical public to support kidnapping and dissecting human beings, but if those beings appear to be both dangerous and homicidal, then the military might be considered justified in such a response. In short, while there would certainly be some Muggles willing to do horrible things to try and exploit wizards (some evil MegaCorps, for example), encouraging them to stay hidden, if they are exposed, it would be better for everyone if the wizarding world was controlled by Harry & co at the time, not Death Eaters.
** When I read the books I never had the impression that the regular wizard/witch despise muggles or have negative feelings toward them… us… whatever… and that was one of the reasons why the Death Eaters were clearly considered extremists and hated by the main magical society. I really feel some readers have a darker perception from the books, as like all wizards except Dumbledore and the Trio are deeply anti-muggle. Yes, I think the good wizards (see no reason for the quotes) have certain condescending attitude over muggles, but hate and hostility? I never perceive that. Anyway, I think the reason for keeping certain things in secret is a) To protect muggles from magical creatures (can you imagine what would happen if a muggle discovers a dragon or giant in a mountain?) b) To protect magical creatures from muggles (can you imagine what would happen to centaurs or goblins if their existence became public?). About keeping magical artefacts secrets that can help muggles to solve problems, as another trope said, what? No magical artefact works if in hands of muggles.
* Honestly it seems like the primary reason for the Statute of Secrecy is probably because some Wizard or another noticed the Muggles had surpassed the Wizards in terms of destructive potential. Wizards sling spells that kill instantly without fail but the original books are set in the 90's meaning that in addition to two of the most brutal conflicts any living human of either world had ever seen the Wizarding world has witnessed the advent of nuclear weaponry. For possibly the first time in history Wizards are not only on the decline but at real risk of being wiped out both from the fallout of so many families being wiped away by the recent Wizard War but because if the Muggles found them there would be a lot of uncomfortable questions about why they were left out in the rain while the Wizards enjoyed the fruits of magic without sharing. A Wizard with a wand can kill one person at a time as fast as he can say ''avadacadavra'' but muggles have guns and atom bombs which should terrify any Wizard self-aware enough to realize the implications. At least in theory guns would still work in the presence of wizards and magic, they're chemical reactions are not much different than a standard potion.

to:

** The Death Eaters were wrong because they were genocidal maniacs who believed that anyone with non-magical ancestry should be killed so that the two worlds could be completely separate. Not only were their methods deeply immoral, but also doomed from the start -- the fact that Muggle-borns exist means that if there was no contact between the worlds, the Muggle world would eventually find magic on its own through Muggle-borns and the same problem would happen, only the Muggle could objectively cite the wizards' violent actions and disregard for human life as reasons to fight them. Because the thing is, the Muggle population is a giant sleeping bear, and the Death Eaters' tactics would essentially end up poking them with a stick. The protagonists were presumably reluctant to seek non-magical assistance because they were concerned with the time after victory, in which they believed that a wizarding world without Death Eaters or widespread Muggle knowledge was the best end condition. Besides, the protagonists (and Dumbledore, and J.K. Rowling, I believe) have a higher view of human nature. I suspect that they believe that in the event that magic was exposed, the best defense the wizards could use would be a PR blitz that shows that they are not a threat, combined with some signs of goodwill. Recall that in the very least, the Prime Minister of Britain knows about them, so if the government was going to do something horribly unethical, they'd have started by now. It would take a lot for the non-magical public to support kidnapping and dissecting human beings, but if those beings appear to be both dangerous and homicidal, then the military might be considered justified in such a response. In short, while there would certainly be some Muggles willing to do horrible things to try and exploit wizards (some evil MegaCorps, MegaCorp, for example), encouraging them to stay hidden, if they are exposed, it would be better for everyone if the wizarding world was controlled by Harry & co at the time, not Death Eaters.
** When I read the books I never had the impression that the regular wizard/witch despise muggles or have negative feelings toward them… us… whatever… and that was one of the reasons why the Death Eaters were clearly considered extremists and hated by the main magical society. I really feel some readers have a darker perception from the books, as like if all wizards except Dumbledore and the Trio are deeply anti-muggle. Yes, I think the good wizards (see no reason for the quotes) have certain condescending attitude attitudes over muggles, but hate and hostility? I never perceive perceived that. Anyway, I think the reason for keeping certain things in secret is a) To protect muggles from magical creatures (can you imagine what would happen if a muggle discovers a dragon or giant in on a mountain?) b) To protect magical creatures from muggles (can you imagine what would happen to centaurs or goblins if their existence became public?). About keeping magical artefacts secrets that can help muggles to solve problems, as another trope troper said, what? No magical artefact works if in the hands of muggles.
* Honestly it seems like the primary reason for the Statute of Secrecy is probably because some Wizard or another noticed the Muggles had surpassed the Wizards in terms of destructive potential. Wizards sling spells that kill instantly without fail but the original books are set in the 90's meaning that in addition to two of the most brutal conflicts any living human of either world had ever seen the Wizarding world has witnessed the advent of nuclear weaponry. For possibly the first time in history Wizards are not only on the decline but at real risk of being wiped out both from the fallout of so many families being wiped away by the recent Wizard War but also because if the Muggles found them there would be a lot of uncomfortable questions about why they were left out in the rain while the Wizards enjoyed the fruits of magic without sharing. A Wizard with a wand can kill one person at a time as fast as he can say ''avadacadavra'' ''avadakedavra'' but muggles have guns and atom bombs which should terrify any Wizard self-aware enough to realize the implications. At least in theory guns would still work in the presence of wizards and magic, they're their chemical reactions are not much different than a standard potion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
You could also say evangelical Muslims, Jews, or any other particularly outspoken religous individuals.


** The X-Men scenario is one option, but it's also possible that the reveal of magical CREATURES such as dragons, goblins, or giants would create a different scenario, wherein the muggle population became aware of creatures they did not know to exist before (something that might not be as negative an impact as a human of greater power). As for wizards themselves being revealed, it's possible that would cause an X-Men like scenario, but it's also possible they would be immediately associated with the current (real-world) use of 'witchcraft', which almost unerringly is applied to Wicca and other pagan religions. It's not UN-likely that the first impulse would be to lump witches and wizards in with Wiccans, and that people who stuck their hands up later and said 'no, we really CAN do REAL magic' would be identified as delusional or attention-seeking, and that the wizarding world would be treated much as it has been - as something that isn't realistic or doesn't exist. The fact of the matter is that in order for witch-hunts the like of what we saw in Salem to even be possible, most people would have to be strictly Christian and to take 'thou shalt not suffer a witch to live' as a direct command from God. Even now, most Christian sects do not take this stance toward other religions. The reason it is more plausible in the X-Men is that the majority believe now in evolution, which is fueled by natural mutation like what the X-Men display, and as such there would be more easily manipulated convictions based in science than there would be based in religion. Evangelical Christians are the most vocal, but not the most numerous individuals out there, and would be the most likely nemesis of real witches and wizards.

to:

** The X-Men scenario is one option, but it's also possible that the reveal of magical CREATURES such as dragons, goblins, or giants would create a different scenario, wherein the muggle population became aware of creatures they did not know to exist before (something that might not be as negative an impact as a human of greater power). As for wizards themselves being revealed, it's possible that would cause an X-Men like scenario, but it's also possible they would be immediately associated with the current (real-world) use of 'witchcraft', which almost unerringly is applied to Wicca and other pagan religions. It's not UN-likely that the first impulse would be to lump witches and wizards in with Wiccans, and that people who stuck their hands up later and said 'no, we really CAN do REAL magic' would be identified as delusional or attention-seeking, and that the wizarding world would be treated much as it has been - as something that isn't realistic or doesn't exist. The fact of the matter is that in order for witch-hunts the like of what we saw in Salem to even be possible, most people would have to be strictly Christian and to take 'thou shalt not suffer a witch to live' as a direct command from God. Even now, most Christian sects do not take this stance toward other religions. The reason it is more plausible in the X-Men is that the majority believe now in evolution, which is fueled by natural mutation like what the X-Men display, and as such there would be more easily manipulated convictions based in science than there would be based in religion. Evangelical Christians are some of the most vocal, but not the most numerous individuals out there, and would be the most likely nemesis of real witches and wizards.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** You are also forgetting something; anyone can use a computer, but magic wands (and all other magical artefacts) only work with wizards. If The Masquerade falls and the existence of wizards became public knowledge Muggles still can’t use magic wands to make spells. So Hagrid’s worries are rightful; in best case scenario Muggles will request Wizards to solve their problems because there is no way they can do it themselves, worst-case scenario governments will take wizards hostage and force them to do stuff and weird experiments.\\\

to:

** You are also forgetting something; anyone can use a computer, but magic wands (and all other magical artefacts) only work with wizards. If The Masquerade falls and the existence of wizards became public knowledge Muggles still can’t use magic wands to make spells. So Hagrid’s worries are rightful; well founded; in the best case scenario Muggles will request Wizards Wwizards to solve their problems because there is no way they can do it themselves, worst-case scenario governments will take wizards hostage and force them to do stuff and weird experiments.\\\



** a) The British equivalent of an SSN is the National Insurance (NI) number. b) [[TakeAThirdOption If you want safe record keeping of wizards in muggle bureaucracies, the way to do it is with a well-paid squib or team of squibs. These individuals would enjoy a dual salary from muggles (for doing the day job) and also from the Ministry Of Magic (for helping to maintain the masquerade) and would be an enviable role for a squib willing to work a desk job.]]

to:

** a) The British equivalent of an SSN is the National Insurance (NI) number. b) [[TakeAThirdOption If you want safe record keeping of wizards in muggle bureaucracies, the way to do it is with a well-paid squib or team of squibs. These individuals would enjoy a dual salary from muggles (for doing the day job) and also from the Ministry Of Magic (for helping to maintain the masquerade) and would be an enviable role for a squib willing to work a desk job. There would also be other perks, e.g. the hiring process is streamlined (you only need to pass the wizarding interview panel, then they do some low level memory modification and Confounding for the muggle panel, and boom you're in.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** a) The British equivalent of an SSN is the National Insurance (NI) number. b) If you want safe record keeping of wizards in muggle beauracracies, the way to do it is with a well-paid squib or team of squibs. These individuals would enjoy a dual salary from muggles (for doing the day job) and also from the Ministry Of Magic (for helping to maintain the masquerade) and would be an enviable role for a squib willing to work a desk job.

to:

** a) The British equivalent of an SSN is the National Insurance (NI) number. b) [[TakeAThirdOption If you want safe record keeping of wizards in muggle beauracracies, bureaucracies, the way to do it is with a well-paid squib or team of squibs. These individuals would enjoy a dual salary from muggles (for doing the day job) and also from the Ministry Of Magic (for helping to maintain the masquerade) and would be an enviable role for a squib willing to work a desk job.
job.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** a) The British equivalent of an SSN is the National Insurance (NI) number. b) If you want safe record keeping of wizards in muggle beauracracies, the way to do it is with a well-paid squib or team of squibs. These individuals would enjoy a dual salary from muggles (for doing the day job) and also from the Ministry Of Magic (for helping to maintain the masquerade) and would be an enviable role for a squib willing to work a desk job.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Just looked at the Harry Potter wiki and seemingly the sole reference to communism is in the Fantastic Beasts movie, in a newspaper article about the French (and ''muggle'') prime minister warning about the coming communist threat in the 1920s. From this it seems a pretty safe assumption that wizards never saw any merit in communism, and have always been about capitalism as an economic system. Therefore, states which split over the issue, such as West/East Germany and North/South Korea can be assumed to have not similarly fractured in their wizarding governments. People with friends and families in seperate jurisdictions would maintain their relationships. Of course, they could simply disapparate over the Berlin Wall and the DMZ of Korea. The exception would be with their muggle acquaintances who may find it shocking to see wizards (who they think are muggles) moving back and forth over the jurisdictions rapidly and wily nily. Also, if one presumes the wizarding economies of West Germany and South Korea would also be superior to those of East Germany and North Korea as with their muggle economies (due to some level of muggle/wizard trade) the majority of wizards would choose to settle in said superior economies, but they could still travel between the jurisdictions as they saw fit.

to:

** Just looked at the Harry Potter wiki and seemingly the sole reference to communism is in the Fantastic Beasts movie, in a newspaper article about the French (and ''muggle'') prime minister warning about the coming communist threat in the 1920s. From this it seems a pretty safe assumption that wizards never saw any merit in communism, and have always been about capitalism as an economic system. Therefore, states which split over the issue, such as West/East Germany and North/South Korea can be assumed to have not similarly fractured in their wizarding governments. People with friends and families in seperate jurisdictions would maintain their relationships. Of course, they could simply disapparate over the Berlin Wall and the DMZ of Korea. The exception would be with their muggle acquaintances who may find it shocking to see wizards (who they think are muggles) moving back and forth over the jurisdictions rapidly and wily nily. Also, if one presumes the wizarding economies of West Germany and South Korea would also be superior to those of East Germany and North Korea as with their muggle economies (due to some level of muggle/wizard trade) trade, wizards buying food and other goods in the muggle economies, etc) the majority of wizards would choose to settle in said superior economies, but they could still travel between the jurisdictions as they saw fit.

Top