History Headscratchers / Foundation

1st Oct '16 9:11:13 PM Sharlee
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*** Not exactly evolution, mind you. As to the original post, FasterThanLightTravel has existed since the end of the 20th/beginning of the 21st century in this 'verse.

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*** Not exactly evolution, mind you. As to the original post, FasterThanLightTravel has existed since the end of the 20th/beginning of the 21st century in this 'verse.'verse.
** Dogs, at least, had definitely evolved into something very different from what you or I would call a "dog". In ''Foundation and Earth'', the explorer who encountered the feral dog pack underestimated them because he couldn't even ''conceive'' of a dog being aggressive or dangerous, suggesting that they've been selectively bred (or discretely culled by human-protective robots) to be completely submissive and perhaps toothless.
29th Aug '16 8:57:27 AM Milarqui
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*** Simply, Seldon calculated that the external crisis would boil up to a point where one of the Four Kingdoms would think they had a chance to get away with toppling the Foundation, which would survive thanks to the religion of science, or rather, its hold in the minds of the people. The fact that it seemed to be timed with the prince's coming of age is just random chance - and, in fact, Hardin mentions that he believes the external crisis was accelerated when the Foundation found the Imperial cruiser. Plus, it is not just a few days passing between the crisis happening and Seldon's appearance, as it is obvious that, at least, a couple of weeks have gone by - Hardin has had to travel to the other Four Kingdoms to argue for the signing of the new treaties that give the Foundation greater power.



** Who says they haven't evolved? Granted, 20,000 or so years is not enough time for a massive evolutionary change to occur naturally. But, for example, Daneel managed to introduce telepathy into the ''entire'' Gaian population, rather than just a genetically-gifted minority! The Solarians re-engineered themselves into hermaphroditic psychokinetics who reproduce via parthenogenesis!

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** Who says they haven't evolved? Granted, 20,000 or so years is not enough time for a massive evolutionary change to occur naturally. But, for example, Daneel managed to introduce telepathy into the ''entire'' Gaian population, rather than just a genetically-gifted minority! The Solarians re-engineered themselves into hermaphroditic psychokinetics who reproduce via parthenogenesis!parthenogenesis!
*** Not exactly evolution, mind you. As to the original post, FasterThanLightTravel has existed since the end of the 20th/beginning of the 21st century in this 'verse.
11th Feb '16 10:46:17 AM OddHack
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** Even if you accept that psychohistory could (at least for story purposes) predict what crisis would arise and how it would be resolved, the idea that it could be timed well enough to correspond to Seldon's pre-scheduled appearances seems too precise. Anacreon's attack was timed to coincide with the prince's coming of age -- how could that be aligned (within a few days) to Seldon's appearance on a anniversary of the Foundation? Even if the Second Foundation was manipulating things behind the scenes, it seems hard to believe.
12th Dec '15 7:55:27 AM Thibaud
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*** All right, you are correct, but still : the European Middle Ages continued using the Ancients' proto-scientific method and perfected it into the modern scientific method (e.g. : creating the Universities : la Sorbonne, Bologne, Trantor). The original argument is still invalid :)
To clarify, my argument was not "the European Middle Ages were the best or even the first good, pro-science civilization ever". I was answering the argument : "The European Middle Ages was a bad, anti-science civilization". I think it is pretty easy to demonstrate the European Middle Ages was not an anti-science civilization. It does not mean that other civilization weren't ALSO pro-science and, in that, in fact, the also pro-science European Middle Ages benefited from them.

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*** All right, you are correct, but still : the European Middle Ages continued using the Ancients' proto-scientific method and perfected it into the modern scientific method (e.g. : creating the Universities : la Sorbonne, Bologne, Trantor). The original argument is still invalid :)
:) To clarify, my argument was not "the European Middle Ages were the best or even the first good, pro-science civilization ever". I was answering the argument : "The European Middle Ages was a bad, anti-science civilization". I think it is pretty easy to demonstrate the European Middle Ages was not an anti-science civilization. It does not mean that other civilization weren't ALSO pro-science and, in that, in fact, the also pro-science European Middle Ages benefited from them.
12th Dec '15 7:54:40 AM Thibaud
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To clarify, my argument was not "the European Middle Ages were the best or even the first good, pro-science civilization ever". I was answering the argument : "The European Middle Ages was a bad, anti-science civilization". I think it is pretty easy to demonstrate the European Middle Ages was not an anti-science civilization. It does not mean that other civilization weren't ALSO pro-science and, in that, in fact, the also pro-science European Middle Ages benefited from them.
12th Dec '15 7:50:28 AM Thibaud
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*** All right, you are correct, but still : the European Middle Ages continued using the Ancients' proto-scientific method and perfected it into the modern scientific method (e.g. : creating the Universities : la Sorbonne, Bologne, Trantor). The original argument is still invalid :)
4th Jul '15 12:05:20 PM psionycx
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*** False. The scientific method had been practiced by civilizations long before the Middle Ages. The Ancient Greeks, Indians and Chinese all had variants, and much of Medieval European advancement came courtesy of ancient records of these. There is a reason we are writing using the Latin alphabet and doing math using the Hindu-Arabic numerical system.
14th Apr '15 2:45:48 PM Thibaud
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*** The European Middle Ages invented the scientific method. Your argument is invalid.
19th Jan '15 7:28:49 PM psionycx
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** Actually, there is solid historical basis for this. It is fairly well-known that social conditions have to exist to allow for certain types of individuals to arise to prominence. For example, Gaius Julius Caesar was ''not'' the first person to try to overhaul the Roman Republic. He was merely the first to succeed to significant extent because generations of social problems had reached a critical boiling point. Likewise, being a scientific genius during the early Middle Ages in Europe wouldn't have scored you the same kudos it would have either during the previous Roman Empire or the later nation-states.



*** Considering that Asimov's Robots Trilogy are connected in the same universe as the Foundation, they ''did'' in pre-Empire times as the Spacers. Humanity has seen how a long life-span can move entire worlds to inertia and lack of scientific cooperation. As scientists start to live longer, they can decide to spend their long lives in a specific matter, and avoid needing constant successors so a new thing can be discovered / invented. It could be also [[spoiler: R. Daneel Olivaw saw to that not to happen.]]
** Also, there is FTL travel in the Foundation-verse, so it didn't take billions of years for humanity to colonize the Milky Way at all.

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*** Considering that Asimov's Robots Trilogy are connected in the same universe as the Foundation, they ''did'' in pre-Empire times as the Spacers. Humanity has seen how a long life-span can move entire worlds to inertia stagnation and lack of scientific cooperation. As scientists start to live longer, they can decide to spend their long lives in a specific matter, and avoid needing constant successors so a new thing can be discovered / invented.discovered[=/=]invented. It could be also [[spoiler: R. Daneel Olivaw saw to that not to happen.]]
** Also, there is FTL travel in the Foundation-verse, so it didn't take billions of years for humanity to colonize the Milky Way at all.all.
** Who says they haven't evolved? Granted, 20,000 or so years is not enough time for a massive evolutionary change to occur naturally. But, for example, Daneel managed to introduce telepathy into the ''entire'' Gaian population, rather than just a genetically-gifted minority! The Solarians re-engineered themselves into hermaphroditic psychokinetics who reproduce via parthenogenesis!
20th Aug '14 6:09:58 AM apenpaap
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** Psychohistory only works most of the time. It's possible for things to go differently (The Mule and Seldon himself are examples of this). That's one of the reasons the Second Foundation exists: to get things back on track if things do go wrong.
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