Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / FinalFantasyVI

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Her hair was blonde in the FMVs for the Anthology version. It's more than likely just a way to distinguish her from Celes in-game.

to:

** Her hair was blonde in the FMVs [=FMVs=] for the Anthology version. It's more than likely just a way to distinguish her from Celes in-game.
Tabs MOD

Changed: 15

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
dewicking disambiguation page


*** I took it upon myself to check the CG ending on Website/YouTube, and, unfortunately for you and your theory, the fridge is still wide open due to a couple of unfortunate details that you appear to have overlooked. The main one being that the CG ending in FFVI is a recap montage of earlier events in the game, (like Terra invading Narshe, Locke rescuing Celes down in the basement in South Figaro and Setzer [[JustForPun dealing]] out some destruction to some imperial fliers,) meaning that the sequence you're referring to is from when Shadow, Sabin and Cyan were on board the Phantom Train.

to:

*** I took it upon myself to check the CG ending on Website/YouTube, and, unfortunately for you and your theory, the fridge is still wide open due to a couple of unfortunate details that you appear to have overlooked. The main one being that the CG ending in FFVI is a recap montage of earlier events in the game, (like Terra invading Narshe, Locke rescuing Celes down in the basement in South Figaro and Setzer [[JustForPun dealing]] dealing out some destruction to some imperial fliers,) meaning that the sequence you're referring to is from when Shadow, Sabin and Cyan were on board the Phantom Train.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** If I recall correctly, Cid was the one who brought up the idea they might be the only people left, and he's her father figure, so his word carries a deal of influence. Cid's own motivations for saying this and how much he believed it are also subject to interpretation, since he did have the raft ready for her.


Added DiffLines:

** Maybe they're docile animals in this game and thus never attack you, ergo there's no random encounter with them. Also, there is a Nutkin Suit kigurumi item, so the concept of them can be verified to exist in this world.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Are we assuming that we're supposed to see Cyan as unreasonable? We can see Locke's side because we've met Celes as Locke, but that doesn't mean we're not supposed to see Cyan's side too. Locke immediately defending her (even with a particularly weak defense) makes sense in light of his "protect women" personality trait rooted in his own trauma; Celes being completely uncommunicative out of shame is a personal flaw that impacts her relationship with Locke down the line as well, so that's not a random oversight in her writing either.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

**** Vector is most definitely not part of the Floating Continent, it's still right there on the map where it always was after the continent rises. Vector is in fact abandoned at this point of the game by both the Returners and the Empire, so Banon and Arvis could be doing relatively unimportant stuff off-screen; I would assume they died in the apocalypse.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* When Figaro Castle is trapped underground there is still an exit from the cave,which "Gerad" uses to get in. Why doesn't he lead out the suffocating people of Figaro?

to:

* When Figaro Castle is trapped underground there is still an exit from the cave,which cave, which "Gerad" uses to get in. Why doesn't he lead out the suffocating people of Figaro?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The actual plan (at least in the most recent translation) was that the Returners would attack the Imperial Capitol from the north while the Espers attacked from the east, ie. the reaseon the Espers would make a difference this time is because now they were going to be ambushing the empire in concert with human resistance. They didn't expect the Espers to be able to win all on their own.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* At least in the GBA translation, Celes greets Terra as if they're friends when they meet in Narshe (the first time they meet after Terra lost her memory.) It's unclear exactly how close they were, though, since this is never followed up on - which is sort of odd in and of itself; you'd expect Terra to want to ask Celes ''tons and tons of questions'' in order to recover her memories. But the Empire attacks Narshe during that scene and events make it impossible - in fact, between Terra flying off and then Celes' fake defection shortly before she returns, there's no notional opportunity where the two of them could have had a quiet talk until they meet again in the World of Ruin!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** It's possible that he intended to, or that at least that was his plan B if he couldn't get the castle running again. Fortunately it turned out to be easy enough to deal with the issue that had left it trapped - and after that, why would he want to evacuate it?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The AnthropicPrinciple applies here. Cyan was a powerful knight but probably not the ''only'' powerful knight in Doma; what distinguishes him and makes him plot-relevant is that he was the sole highly-skilled survivor (and that he ran into Sabin while seeking revenge.) It's not unreasonable that at least one knight noticed the water was poisoned (honestly, given how fast-acting it was, it's more surprising the losses were as total as they were); if it had been someone other than Cyan then that part of the plot would have followed them instead.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Some espers look entirely human. Ramuh, for instance, was able to pass as a human for years (he specifically mentions this.)

to:

** Some espers look entirely human. Ramuh, for instance, was able to pass as a human for years (he specifically mentions this.)) And, of course, if you go by the green hair she has in her in-game art (which later versions have stuck with) she does have at least one obvious "abnormal" indicator, which makes her less able to pass than Ramuh was.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Some espers look entirely human. Ramuh, for instance, was able to pass as a human for years (he specifically mentions this.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why does the game treat Cyan's accusations against Celes as unreasonable? When you first meet up after getting both, he tries to attack her, and Locke gives a speech about how "the Empire is evil, but not ''all'' of its citizens are!" Except... Celes isn't just a random citizen, she was an imperial general who committed specific war crimes (Cyan says that she was the one who 'torched Miranda', and she doesn't deny this, though she does totally ignore it. Then Locke gives his speech about how not all the Empire's citizens are evil. Yes, Locke, but the people who burned down cities probably ''are'' evil. Cyan isn't attacking her because she's an imperial, he's attacking her because she has committed specific, horrific war crimes for which she expresses no remorse.) It's entirely reasonable for Cyan to hold her responsible for her past crimes, even if she's now changed her mind, especially when one of those crimes is ''burning down a city''. Yes, sure, maybe she deserves a chance to strive for redemption, but the game treats it as if Cyan's accusations are outright unreasonable and as if Celes has nothing to try and redeem, when he is able to accuse her of specific straight-up atrocities against civilian populations back when she was an imperial general.

to:

* Why does the game treat Cyan's accusations against Celes as unreasonable? When you first meet up after getting both, he tries to attack her, and Locke gives a speech about how "the Empire is evil, but not ''all'' of its citizens are!" Except... Celes isn't just a random citizen, she was an imperial general who committed specific war crimes (Cyan says that she was the one who 'torched Miranda', Maranda', and she doesn't deny this, though she does totally ignore it. Then Locke gives his speech about how not all the Empire's citizens are evil. Yes, Locke, but the people who burned down cities probably ''are'' evil. Cyan isn't attacking her because she's an imperial, he's attacking her because she has committed specific, horrific war crimes for which she expresses no remorse.) It's entirely reasonable for Cyan to hold her responsible for her past crimes, even if she's now changed her mind, especially when one of those crimes is ''burning down a city''. Yes, sure, maybe she deserves a chance to strive for redemption, but the game treats it as if Cyan's accusations are outright unreasonable and as if Celes has nothing to try and redeem, when he is able to accuse her of specific straight-up atrocities against civilian populations back when she was an imperial general.



** For what it's worth, the GBA translation (which is generally more accurate) actually makes this worse; in that version, Cyan specifically says that Celes is ''personally responsible'' for the decemation of Miranda.

to:

** For what it's worth, the GBA translation (which is generally more accurate) actually makes this worse; in that version, Cyan specifically says that Celes is ''personally responsible'' for the decemation decimation of Miranda.Maranda.



* Celes is both an extremely well-known imperial general ''and'' a dead-ringer for a famous opera star. Yet outside of a tiny number of cases where people recognizing her is required for the plot, you can bring her into random towns (including random towns in the empire!) and nobody recognizes her. You can even take her to Miranda, the town she supposedly was personally responsible for decemating, and neither the civilians nor the imperial troops notice her. What gives? Was Cyan just particularly familiar with what the imperial generals look like?

to:

* Celes is both an extremely well-known imperial general ''and'' a dead-ringer for a famous opera star. Yet outside of a tiny number of cases where people recognizing her is required for the plot, you can bring her into random towns (including random towns in the empire!) and nobody recognizes her. You can even take her to Miranda, Maranda, the town she supposedly was personally responsible for decemating, decimating, and neither the civilians nor the imperial troops notice her. What gives? Was Cyan just particularly familiar with what the imperial generals look like?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[folder: Why does almost nobody recognize Celes?]]
* Celes is both an extremely well-known imperial general ''and'' a dead-ringer for a famous opera star. Yet outside of a tiny number of cases where people recognizing her is required for the plot, you can bring her into random towns (including random towns in the empire!) and nobody recognizes her. You can even take her to Miranda, the town she supposedly was personally responsible for decemating, and neither the civilians nor the imperial troops notice her. What gives? Was Cyan just particularly familiar with what the imperial generals look like?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** It is most likely both. Honestly if this one ever got a 3D remake we should be seeing Celes having nightmares of the Airship cracking apart followed by her fall into a sea of burning fire during a hurricane of building fragments. She had front row seats to the end of the world then she wakes up a year later and doesn't have nightmares or trauma? No, SNES just was just far too limiting for the grand scale of [=FF6=]'s story. If there was one game from the 2D era to pick to be remade into modern FF style, it would be this one.

to:

** It is most likely both. Honestly if this one ever got a 3D remake we should be seeing Celes having nightmares of the Airship cracking apart followed by her fall into a sea of burning fire during a hurricane of building fragments. She had front row seats to the end of the world then she wakes up a year later and doesn't have nightmares or trauma? No, SNES just was just far too limiting for the grand scale of [=FF6=]'s story. If there was one game from the 2D era to pick to be remade into modern FF style, it would be this one.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** "Seems"? You can't really tell where Kefka was stabbed thanks to the sprites, so he may have been stabbed somewhere that can still leave him jumping around as he did. [[FinalFantasyVIII But then again, people wondered why a mercenary didn't die of an ice shard hitting around their shoulder and a 3D cutscene...]]


to:

** "Seems"? You can't really tell where Kefka was stabbed thanks to the sprites, so he may have been stabbed somewhere that can still leave him jumping around as he did. [[FinalFantasyVIII But then again, people wondered why a mercenary didn't die of an ice shard hitting around their shoulder and in a 3D cutscene...]]

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* We see Gestahl and Kefka approach the Gate to the Esper World. We then have a cutscene where the continent lifts up out of the ground. Then we see Gestahl and Kefka on the continent in front of the Warring Triad statues. Were the statues originally in the Esper World, and Gestahl and Kefka did something to them to bring them into the World of Balance? Were they in the World of Balance to begin with? I had thought the game implied the later because of the part where Espers talked about something in the World of Balance giving them a rush of power when they passed through the gate. Also, if the Traid were the source of all magic like they say a few times, it would make sense that they were located in the World of Balance, since people can cast magic there. This also explains why the Espers in the Esper World were able to be captured so easily when Gestahl attacked years ago, when he captured Terra. Their magic was weak since the Triad was in the other world. Though, if the Triad statues were in the World of Balance, I'm unclear why there was a shot of Gestahl and Kefka in front of the Esper Gate.

to:

* We see Gestahl and Kefka approach the Gate to the Esper World. We then have a cutscene where the continent lifts up out of the ground. Then we see Gestahl and Kefka on the continent in front of the Warring Triad statues. Were the statues originally in the Esper World, and Gestahl and Kefka did something to them to bring them into the World of Balance? Were they in the World of Balance to begin with? I had thought the game implied the later because of the part where Espers talked about something in the World of Balance giving them a rush of power when they passed through the gate. Also, if the Traid Triad were the source of all magic like they say a few times, it would make sense that they were located in the World of Balance, since people can cast magic there. This also explains why the Espers in the Esper World were able to be captured so easily when Gestahl attacked years ago, when he captured Terra. Their magic was weak since the Triad was in the other world. Though, if the Triad statues were in the World of Balance, I'm unclear why there was a shot of Gestahl and Kefka in front of the Esper Gate.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Ramuh gives no indication that he's weakened, no. He specifically says that he "narrowly avoided" the fate of having his powers drained; and when he kills himself, he specifically says that it's to give you his power. At no point does he suggest, or even remotely hint, that he has been weakened, injured, or is dying in any way shape or form, and in fact he more-or-less states the opposite (that, unlike the other espers, he's totally fine until he decides to sacrifice himself.) The magicite he gives you also isn't particularly amazing - nowhere near as valuable as his knowledge and expertise would have been later in the plot. On top of this, when he does move to kill himself, the characters react with horror and try to stop him, implying that this may actually just be a psychological difference between humans and espers (ie. to him, dying by becoming magicite isn't a big deal.)

to:

*** Ramuh gives no indication that he's weakened, no. He specifically says that he "narrowly avoided" the fate of having his powers drained; and when he kills himself, he specifically says that it's to give you his power. At no point does he suggest, or even remotely hint, that he has been weakened, injured, or is dying in any way shape or form, and in fact he more-or-less states the opposite (that, unlike the other espers, he's totally fine until he decides to sacrifice himself.) The magicite he gives you also isn't particularly amazing - nowhere near as valuable as his knowledge and expertise would have been later in the plot. On top of this, when he does move to kill himself, the characters react with horror and try to stop him, implying him; afterwards, they ask "why would you do such a thing?", and his answer is basically "you need to stop the empire", ie. emphasizing that this may actually just be a psychological difference between humans he killed himself to give them his power and espers (ie. to him, for no other reason. If he was weakened or dying by becoming magicite isn't a big deal.)anyway, he would have said so in order to salve their concerns, but at no point in the conversation does he say anything that could be interpreted that way.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Ramuh gives no indication that he's weakened, no. He specifically says that he "narrowly avoided" the fate of having his powers drained; and when he kills himself, he specifically says that it's to give you his power. At no point does he suggest, or even remotely hint, that he has been weakened, injured, or is dying in any way shape or form, and in fact he more-or-less states the opposite (that, unlike the other espers, he's totally fine until he decides to sacrifice himself.) The magicite he gives you also isn't particularly amazing - nowhere near as valuable as his knowledge and expertise would have been later in the plot.

to:

*** Ramuh gives no indication that he's weakened, no. He specifically says that he "narrowly avoided" the fate of having his powers drained; and when he kills himself, he specifically says that it's to give you his power. At no point does he suggest, or even remotely hint, that he has been weakened, injured, or is dying in any way shape or form, and in fact he more-or-less states the opposite (that, unlike the other espers, he's totally fine until he decides to sacrifice himself.) The magicite he gives you also isn't particularly amazing - nowhere near as valuable as his knowledge and expertise would have been later in the plot. On top of this, when he does move to kill himself, the characters react with horror and try to stop him, implying that this may actually just be a psychological difference between humans and espers (ie. to him, dying by becoming magicite isn't a big deal.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** Ramuh gives no indication that he's weakened, no. He specifically says that he "narrowly avoided" the fate of having his powers drained; and when he kills himself, he specifically says that it's to give you his power. At no point does he suggest, or even remotely hint, that he has been weakened, injured, or is dying in any way shape or form, and in fact he more-or-less states the opposite (that, unlike the other espers, he's totally fine until he decides to sacrifice himself.) The magicite he gives you also isn't particularly amazing - nowhere near as valuable as his knowledge and expertise would have been later in the plot.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

**It's not as though biology is some sort of strict mathematical formula. Espers are ultimately descended from biological creatures that were modified by the goddesses, too; they're still human enough to interbreed with humans (as Terra's existence proves.) So probably, the loss of magic didn't cause Espers to evaporate entirely unless they'd already been reduced to magicite, at which point there was nothing left; it's just that their biology had become so dependant on magic at that point that they wouldn't be able to survive the loss. Terra, whose biology was more human, was able to survive it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** We know that high-ranking members of the Empire are able to get magitech infusions that grant them powers without turning them into visible cyborgs. The logical conclusion is that the sergeants and guard dogs actually recieved ''cheaper'' enchancements (probably ones that didn't come directly from an Esper but were merely based on one, using that clunky magitek technology to fill the gaps), whereas the generals received full infusions like Celes did and therefore don't require the clunky cyborg tech to use magic. This is supported by the fact that the generals ''are'' much more powerful opponents, overall.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Maybe Sabin (who had no problem fighting Ultros underwater earlier) used a special martial arts breathing technique, and Gau used a fish rage to emulate a fish. In that case only Cyan would need to wear the helmet.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** For what it's worth, the GBA translation (which is generally more accurate) actually makes this worse; in that version, Cyan specifically says that Celes is ''personally responsible'' for the decemation of Miranda.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** The problem with this is that the game has tons of human sprites. If they wanted him to be human, they could have just chosen one of those. In fact, given that he's a recurring character from other games in the series, it's more likely that Lone Wolf's (intentionally non-human) sprite was reused for the Espers rather than the other way around, since the random side-espers who use that sprite are actually less important than he is.


Added DiffLines:

** Also, for what it's worth the Doylist answer is that (like Gogo) he's a reference to a [[https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Lone_Wolf_the_Pickpocket character from Final Fantasy V]], which ''did'' have beastmen. They included him in Final Fantasy VI, even though there's no real indication that Final Fantasy 6 has any beastmen other than him. People who played the international release when the game first came out were confused because FFV hadn't been released internationally and they therefore didn't get the reference.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Another possibility is that beastmen are just a thing in the setting - descendents of other modified humans from the War of the Magi or somesuch. It would explain some of the human-ish monsters you encounter, too.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief Haha]] you guys. In the same manner of breathing underwater in a capsized row boat, they alternated, keeping the helmet upright. There was no corresponding [[HandWave air supply]] so I can only assume Magicite/Magitech or some such. Enchantments be damned in FF6 it seems.

to:

** [[WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief Haha]] you guys. In the same manner of breathing underwater in a capsized row boat, they alternated, keeping the helmet upright. There was no corresponding [[HandWave air supply]] so I can only assume Magicite/Magitech or some such. Enchantments be damned in FF6 [=FF6=] it seems.



** It is most likely both. Honestly if this one ever got a 3D remake we should be seeing Celes having nightmares of the Airship cracking apart followed by her fall into a sea of burning fire during a hurricane of building fragments. She had front row seats to the end of the world then she wakes up a year later and doesn't have nightmares or trauma? No, SNES just was just far too limiting for the grand scale of FF6's story. If there was one game from the 2D era to pick to be remade into modern FF style, it would be this one.

to:

** It is most likely both. Honestly if this one ever got a 3D remake we should be seeing Celes having nightmares of the Airship cracking apart followed by her fall into a sea of burning fire during a hurricane of building fragments. She had front row seats to the end of the world then she wakes up a year later and doesn't have nightmares or trauma? No, SNES just was just far too limiting for the grand scale of FF6's [=FF6=]'s story. If there was one game from the 2D era to pick to be remade into modern FF style, it would be this one.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The Espers were strong enough to both kick the Empire back through the Sealed Gate in the backstory, and devastate Vector. However Kefka must have at some point discovered the right spell to instantly reduce an Esper to Magicite, and the Espers had no time to come up with a counter.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* There's a reason the Whitechapel district of London is the page image for WretchedHive. The British Empire was the mightiest entity in the world in the Victorian Era, but Creator/CharlesDickens made a career writing about the squalor many common people lived in. There are lots of big cities in powerful industralized places that have TheCityNarrows where people live hand to mouth.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** My headcanon is that it works like the Guardian Forces in Final Fantasy VIII or the Espers in Final Fantasy XII. The character who's learning the magic forms a mystical bond with the Esper, and acquires the Esper's spells through combat experience while bonded. An Esper and a person can each only have one bond at a time, but switching bonds is easy and harmless.

Top