History Headscratchers / DragonridersOfPern

12th Oct '16 1:53:11 PM Whitewings
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** Her trip wasn't that long. A human can survive vacuum exposure without long-term side effects for up to 90 seconds. Lessa, upon her arrival in the Oldtimers' era, is said to be more dead than alive, but shows no evidence of long-term damage such as hearing loss or damaged vision. So the duration of her trip was only about a minute to a minute and a half, though even that was enough to leave both her and Ramoth in terrible condition.
11th Sep '16 1:36:13 PM Durison
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* So it's been established that, under normal circumstances, the time a dragon spends ''Between'' is about three(3) seconds. In ''Dragonflight'', Lessa says it took about twice that long to travel ten(10) years through time. Assuming that pattern holds true, then by my math (450 ÷ 10 = 45, 45 x 6 = 270, 270 ÷ 60 = 4.5) she was in a vacuum for nearly five(5) minutes when she went back 450 years to get the Oldtimers. Given that brain cells begin to die after only one(1) minute without oxygen, how did she survive the trip without incurring serious brain damage?

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* So it's been established that, under normal circumstances, the time a dragon spends ''Between'' when teleporting is about three(3) seconds. In ''Dragonflight'', Lessa says it took about twice that long to travel ten(10) years through time. Assuming that pattern holds true, then by my math (450 ÷ 10 = 45, 45 x 6 = 270, 270 ÷ 60 = 4.5) she was in a vacuum for nearly five(5) minutes when she went back 450 years to get the Oldtimers. Given that brain cells begin to die after only one(1) minute without oxygen, how did she survive the trip without incurring serious brain damage?
11th Sep '16 1:35:28 PM Durison
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* So it's been established that, under normal circumstances, the time a dragon spends ''Between'' is about three(6) seconds. In ''Dragonflight'', Lessa says it took about twice that long to travel ten(10) years through time. Assuming that pattern holds true, then by my math (45010=45,456=270,27060=4.5) she was in a vacuum for nearly five(5) minutes when she went back 450 years to get the Oldtimers. Given that brain cells begin to die after only one(1) minute without oxygen, how did she survive the trip without incurring serious brain damage?

to:

* So it's been established that, under normal circumstances, the time a dragon spends ''Between'' is about three(6) three(3) seconds. In ''Dragonflight'', Lessa says it took about twice that long to travel ten(10) years through time. Assuming that pattern holds true, then by my math (45010=45,456=270,27060=4.(450 ÷ 10 = 45, 45 x 6 = 270, 270 ÷ 60 = 4.5) she was in a vacuum for nearly five(5) minutes when she went back 450 years to get the Oldtimers. Given that brain cells begin to die after only one(1) minute without oxygen, how did she survive the trip without incurring serious brain damage?
11th Sep '16 1:30:07 PM Durison
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Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Lessa's Time Travel]]

* So it's been established that, under normal circumstances, the time a dragon spends ''Between'' is about three(6) seconds. In ''Dragonflight'', Lessa says it took about twice that long to travel ten(10) years through time. Assuming that pattern holds true, then by my math (45010=45,456=270,27060=4.5) she was in a vacuum for nearly five(5) minutes when she went back 450 years to get the Oldtimers. Given that brain cells begin to die after only one(1) minute without oxygen, how did she survive the trip without incurring serious brain damage?
19th Jul '16 12:47:33 PM CaptainPedant
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*** Not judging by ''Dragonflight'' itself -- when Ramoth rises and Mnementh catches her, F'lar takes Lessa in his arms and explains that "We bring them safely home".
28th May '16 10:25:27 AM Sharlee
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** IIRC, the 'good maternal instincts' at the firelizard level mostly meant that the golden mothers were willing to protect the nest until the eggs hatched and the babies impressed, whereas the greens would lay eggs and forget they existed. In both the lizards and the dragons, once they're Impressed, they appear to be treated like any other member of the group. Ramoth does care about people messing with her eggs!

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** *** IIRC, the 'good maternal instincts' at the firelizard level mostly meant that the golden mothers were willing to protect the nest until the eggs hatched and the babies impressed, whereas the greens would lay eggs and forget they existed. In both the lizards and the dragons, once they're Impressed, they appear to be treated like any other member of the group. Ramoth does care about people messing with her eggs!eggs!
*** Indeed, dragons (and fire-lizards) might be expected to invest less maternal devotion in individual offspring, given that a large fraction of their young (blues, firestone-chewing greens) are effectively genetic dead ends. The smaller colors of dragon are more like soldier ants than anything - they have value as colony defenders, but not breeders - so naturally receive less parental concern. Even gold and bronze offspring are as much competitors as heirs, considering how quickly their young become breeders relative to their parents' lifespan; a queen dragon that gets too sentimental about her daughters may find herself ousted from her dominant role by one of them. So it makes sense that Ramoth wouldn't think of her offspring as her sons and daughters; in calling Amaranth a "true daughter", she was probably borrowing a ''human'' term to express her (non-maternal, just admiring) appreciation for Amaranth's good qualities.



** Wrong, familial ties are actually quite common amongst the animal kingdom. It's just that dragons have pretty little of this in them.

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** *** Wrong, familial ties are actually quite common amongst the animal kingdom. It's just that dragons have pretty little of this in them.them.
*** It depends on the animal. Given that the initial population of engineered dragons was so tiny, it's possible and even likely that any incest-aversion instincts would have been suppressed in them: either deliberately by the scientists who created them, or via natural selection during the first few generations. Male dragons that ''wouldn't'' rise to mate with related females simply didn't leave any descendants, and females that rose only reluctantly when only male relatives were available didn't fly so high and laid fewer eggs.
6th May '16 2:25:04 AM PaulA
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** It was an expression of his determination to do everything he could to win the mating flight. His dragon used some kind of trick (doubling back somehow? I just remember there was a trick, his dragon turned up somewhere hers didn't expect him & caught her) and when he said the above quote, Torene realized he had planned this with his dragon because he wanted her so much. That doesn't mean it makes sense for him to talk like it was all up to him, but McCaffrey can be a little into the "dominant, pushy male = hot" thing, as demonstrated in many scenes.

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** It was an expression of his determination to do everything he could to win the mating flight. His dragon used some kind of trick (doubling back somehow? I just remember there was a trick, his dragon turned up somewhere hers didn't expect him & caught her) and when he said the above quote, Torene realized he had planned this with his dragon because he wanted her so much. That doesn't mean it makes sense for him to talk like it was all up to him, but McCaffrey [=McCaffrey=] can be a little into the "dominant, pushy male = hot" thing, as demonstrated in many scenes.
11th Mar '16 4:37:15 PM CritterKeeper
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\n** Not to mention the fact that existing more than once at the same time is very draining and disorienting. "I am too many today." Lessa fainted when there were only three of her, and these riders and dragons had to double back on themselves many more times than that to get everything deliverred at once. They likely wouldn't have been ''able'' to rest effectively in such circumstances.
4th Nov '15 2:18:56 PM margdean56
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* In The White Dragon, a dragon dies offscreen, and this is treated as a rare event - Jaxom rushes home (times it, in fact) in order to comfort his foster father, and ex-dragonrider who lost his companion many years before. However, it's established that when ''any'' dragon dies, ''every'' dragon in the world lets out a howl of mourning. By a conservative estimate, there are 1000s of dragonriders in the world at that time, and when a rider dies, his dragon inevitably suicides. Even assuming an average lifespan of 100 years, shouldn't there be a dragon dying every month or so, at least?

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* In The ''The White Dragon, Dragon'', a dragon dies offscreen, and this is treated as a rare event - -- Jaxom rushes home (times it, in fact) in order to comfort his foster father, and an ex-dragonrider who lost his companion many years before. However, it's established that when ''any'' dragon dies, ''every'' dragon in the world lets out a howl of mourning. By a conservative estimate, there are 1000s thousands of dragonriders in the world at that time, and when a rider dies, his dragon inevitably suicides. Even assuming an average lifespan of 100 years, shouldn't there be a dragon dying every month or so, at least?



** While Half Circle ''is'' shown as more sexist than the Harper Hall, there were quite a few people in the Hall who very much gave a crap about Menolly. A journeyman condescendingly tells her she's "obviously" supposed to be with the other girls, who are students rather than apprentices. Dunca, the dorm mother for the female students, hates Menolly for several reasons; one of which is her talent being developed under Petiron. One of the music teachers flat out told her it was a waste of time to educate women to be Harpers. Benis, Lord Groghe's son, accuses her of theft and tries to take her money away at the fair. Et cetera, et cetera. Basically, the entirety of ''Dragonsinger'' '''was''' people arguing back and forth about whether Menolly should be a Harper.

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** While Half Circle ''is'' shown as more sexist than the Harper Hall, there were quite a few people in the Hall who very much gave a crap about Menolly. A journeyman condescendingly tells her she's "obviously" supposed to be with the other girls, who are students rather than apprentices. Dunca, the dorm mother for the female students, hates Menolly for several reasons; one of which is her talent being developed under Petiron. One of the music teachers flat out flat-out told her it was a waste of time to educate women to be Harpers. Benis, Lord Groghe's son, accuses her of theft and tries to take her money away at the fair. Et cetera, et cetera. Basically, the entirety of ''Dragonsinger'' '''was''' people arguing back and forth about whether Menolly should be a Harper.
4th Nov '15 2:15:12 PM margdean56
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* The sex/mating flight scene in ''The Skies of Pern'' bugs me. It's abundantly clear that Tai is ''afraid'' of the impending sexual encounter, and that her other mating flight experiences have been tantamount to ''rape''. F'lessan thinks this is absolutely terrible, but the most helpful response he can come up with is to urge her over and over to "choose" him (even though she's never though of him "that way" before and she's terrified) so that her experience with him will not be rape. (It's not even clear whether she does so, but it turns out afterward that everything's magically okay and she had a wonderful time.) Can't he give her her freedom, instead? Get out of range, lock himself in a room and slide the key to her under the door? He doesn't even consider how he might achieve this and so the scene is not believable as some kind of redemption. A bounded choice isn't a real choice.
** He didn’t have much choice. He was the only rider in the area and his dragon was going to mate with her dragon no matter what. They were going to have sex no matter what. His mind was already overwhelmed with dragon mating urges and it was hard for him to think clearly – to consider, like you said, locking himself up – he had to fight to stay human. Maybe he simply didn’t think about it because in the Weyr "The dragon decides, the rider complies”. All he is doing is urging her to accept the inevitable and to try to find pleasure in it. She would have to face this problem anyway, because Zaranth would continue to rise. I also think that it was stated that if riders don’t have sex something bad may happen to their dragons. I agree that the scene in itself is not handled very well. Tai should be still traumatized and it should take much more time and effort to help her, but these are “Dragobriders of Pern” where a good sex tends to magically solve emotional problems.

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* The sex/mating flight scene in ''The Skies of Pern'' bugs me. It's abundantly clear that Tai is ''afraid'' of the impending sexual encounter, and that her other mating flight experiences have been tantamount to ''rape''. F'lessan thinks this is absolutely terrible, but the most helpful response he can come up with is to urge her over and over to "choose" him (even though she's never though thought of him "that way" before and she's terrified) so that her experience with him will not be rape. (It's not even clear whether she does so, but it turns out afterward that everything's magically okay and she had a wonderful time.) Can't he give her her freedom, instead? Get out of range, lock himself in a room and slide the key to her under the door? He doesn't even consider how he might achieve this and so the scene is not believable as some kind of redemption. A bounded choice isn't a real choice.
** He didn’t have much choice. He was the only rider in the area and his dragon was going to mate with her dragon no matter what. They were going to have sex no matter what. His mind was already overwhelmed with dragon mating urges and it was hard for him to think clearly -- to consider, like you said, locking himself up -- he had to fight to stay human. Maybe he simply didn’t think about it because in the Weyr "The dragon decides, the rider complies”. All he is doing is urging her to accept the inevitable and to try to find pleasure in it. She would have to face this problem anyway, because Zaranth would continue to rise. I also think that it was stated that if riders don’t have sex something bad may happen to their dragons. I agree that the scene in itself is not handled very well. Tai should be still traumatized and it should take much more time and effort to help her, but these are “Dragobriders “Dragonriders of Pern” where a good sex tends to magically solve emotional problems.
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