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*** Hypocrisy? Perhaps. But entirely understandable that he's not really operating on pure logic here; a child just died and beyond that remember that Alistair considers Eamon like a father to him making Connor his sorta kinda brother.
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** Pretty much how he got away with it for so long. The Couslands where relativly close with Orlais, close enough that the claim ''they where in cahoots with Orlais and therefore traitors'' works well enough given the lack of counter-argument. Sure, people might not fully believe it, but will they actually care enough to risk civil war and lay siege on a theryn's city to restore the reputation of a noble line that has died out?
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*** Again, he wants you to do whatever it takes to fight the Darkspawn, even if it means accepting a Saarebas's help.
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** He was planning to get away with it because he was supporting Logain and Logain was planning to be in charge by the time anything could be done about it. Logain was planning for the king to be out of the way (one way or anouther depending on how Ostagar went he'd either be dead or emotionally broken by the defeat) so Howe had free reign to do as he pleased, though probably not for long even without the Warden and their allies interfering given how many of the noble families he was pissing off.
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** He was planning to get away with it because he was supporting Logain and Logain was planning to be in charge by the time anything could be done about it. Logain was planning for the king to be out of the way (one way or anouther another depending on how Ostagar went he'd either be dead or emotionally broken by the defeat) so Howe had free reign to do as he pleased, though probably not for long even without the Warden and their allies interfering given how many of the noble families he was pissing off.
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** Until a few months before the game, the arling was run by Rendon Howe, the poster child of everything wrong with nobles. He probably knew about the tunnels and deliberately kept them secret so he could profit off the smuggling operations. He and his lackeys couldn't have cared less about the civilians as long as they got more power and money. There just wasn't enough time between leadership changing hands and the invasion for anyone to organize the massive effort sealing the tunnels would require.
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** You can still go to the Circle Tower and recruit the mages if you haven't been there yet; it just means that you have to do the entire Broken Circle quest before saving Connor, and Alistair will hammer you over making the decision to not go to the Circle. Of course, that doesn't fix all of Alistair's hypocrisy: he'll still complain about you not going to the Circle or trying anything else even if he was there to see said Circle get annulled! And yes, he does indeed say that killing Connor is the only option because he's too far gone ... only to turn around and complain about you deciding to go through with it!
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** You can still go to the Circle Tower and recruit the mages if you haven't been there yet; it just means that you have to do the entire Broken Circle quest before saving Connor, and Alistair will hammer you over making the decision to not go to the Circle.Circle if you don't. Of course, that doesn't fix all of Alistair's hypocrisy: he'll still complain about you not going to the Circle or trying anything else even if he was there to see said Circle get annulled! And yes, he does indeed say that killing Connor is the only option because he's too far gone ... only to turn around and complain about you deciding to go through with it!
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Why is Alistair so upset if you decide to kill Connor or Isolde do it even if you have no mages in your group at the time, let Jowan go free and haven't been to the circle let meaning it was your only choice. Also, wasn't Alistair the one who SUGGESTED DOING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE if he's with you at the time?
* Because it was a horrible thing that happened. You can point out there was no other choice and he will acknowledge that but he's still upset about the turn of events. Some times people get upset no matter how nicely you try or if you had no other options.
* Because it was a horrible thing that happened. You can point out there was no other choice and he will acknowledge that but he's still upset about the turn of events. Some times people get upset no matter how nicely you try or if you had no other options.
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* Why is Alistair so upset if you decide to kill Connor or Isolde do it even if you have no mages in your group at the time, let Jowan go free and haven't been to the circle let Circle yet meaning it was your only choice. Also, wasn't Alistair the one who SUGGESTED DOING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE if he's with you at the time?
* ** Because it was a horrible thing that happened. You can point out there was no other choice and he will acknowledge that but he's still upset about the turn of events. Some times people get upset no matter how nicely you try or if you had no other options.options.
** You can still go to the Circle Tower and recruit the mages if you haven't been there yet; it just means that you have to do the entire Broken Circle quest before saving Connor, and Alistair will hammer you over making the decision to not go to the Circle. Of course, that doesn't fix all of Alistair's hypocrisy: he'll still complain about you not going to the Circle or trying anything else even if he was there to see said Circle get annulled! And yes, he does indeed say that killing Connor is the only option because he's too far gone ... only to turn around and complain about you deciding to go through with it!
** You can still go to the Circle Tower and recruit the mages if you haven't been there yet; it just means that you have to do the entire Broken Circle quest before saving Connor, and Alistair will hammer you over making the decision to not go to the Circle. Of course, that doesn't fix all of Alistair's hypocrisy: he'll still complain about you not going to the Circle or trying anything else even if he was there to see said Circle get annulled! And yes, he does indeed say that killing Connor is the only option because he's too far gone ... only to turn around and complain about you deciding to go through with it!
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*** Sten believes the Warden should be completely focused on fighting the darkspawn and the Archdemon specificaly so whatever gets them to doing thtat the fastest is Sten's preferred course of action. So avoiding a battle that has nothing to do with fighting darkspawn gains his approval.
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** However, that pales in comparison to his reaction if you fight the blood mage and win. Before dealing the final blow, the mage will offer the Warden another deal: the blood mage will sacrifice all of the elven slaves in the room using blood magic to give the Warden a minor constitution boost. Sten approves if you take this deal, saying "A prudent choice, even if such foul magic must be involved." [[FlatWhat What.]] In literally every other conversation you have with Sten about magic, he unambiguously condemns it as a natural disaster whose practitioners could barely be called sentient (he tells the Warden that magic-users in his homeland have their tongues cut out). He is the Warden's biggest supporter if the Warden decides to kill all the mages in the Circle Tower, and is in turn the Warden's biggest critic if you use magic to save Arl Eamon's son Connor from the demon. But for some reason, he approves of a thoroughly defeated powerful mage from his own people's greatest enemy using forbidden magic to slaughter a dozen or so elves to empower the Warden, and then allowing that mage to leave alive? What possible in-game reason could there be for this totally out-of-nowhere shift in priorities?
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** However, that pales in comparison to his reaction if you fight the blood mage and win. Before dealing the final blow, the mage will offer the Warden another deal: the blood mage will sacrifice all of the elven slaves in the room using blood magic to give the Warden a minor constitution boost. Sten approves if you take this deal, saying "A prudent choice, even if such foul magic must be involved." [[FlatWhat What.]] In literally every other conversation you have with Sten about magic, he unambiguously condemns it as a natural disaster whose practitioners could barely be called sentient (he tells the Warden that magic-users in his homeland have their tongues cut out). He is the Warden's biggest supporter if the Warden decides to kill all the mages in the Circle Tower, and is in turn the Warden's biggest critic if you use magic to save Arl Eamon's son Connor from the demon. But for some reason, he approves of a thoroughly defeated powerful mage from his own people's greatest enemy using forbidden magic to slaughter a dozen or so elves to empower the Warden, and then allowing that mage to leave alive? alive. What possible in-game reason could there be for this totally out-of-nowhere shift in priorities?
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Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
** However, that pales in comparison to his reaction if you fight the blood mage and win. Before dealing the final blow, the mage will offer the Warden another deal: the blood mage will sacrifice all of the elven slaves in the room using blood magic to give the Warden a minor constitution boost. Sten approves if you take this deal, saying "A prudent choice, even if such foul magic must be involved." [[FlatWhat What.]] In literally every other conversation you have with Sten about magic, he unambiguously condemns it as a natural disaster whose practitioners could barely be called sentient. He is the Warden's biggest supporter if the Warden decides to invoke the Rite of Annulment on the Circle (which means the Templars would execute every magic user in the tower), and is in turn the Warden's biggest critic if you use magic to save Arl Eamon's son Connor from the demon. But for some reason, he approves of a thoroughly defeated powerful mage from his own people's greatest enemy using forbidden magic to slaughter a dozen or so elves to empower the Warden, and then allowing that mage to leave alive? What possible in-game reason could there be for this totally out-of-nowhere shift in priorities?
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** However, that pales in comparison to his reaction if you fight the blood mage and win. Before dealing the final blow, the mage will offer the Warden another deal: the blood mage will sacrifice all of the elven slaves in the room using blood magic to give the Warden a minor constitution boost. Sten approves if you take this deal, saying "A prudent choice, even if such foul magic must be involved." [[FlatWhat What.]] In literally every other conversation you have with Sten about magic, he unambiguously condemns it as a natural disaster whose practitioners could barely be called sentient. sentient (he tells the Warden that magic-users in his homeland have their tongues cut out). He is the Warden's biggest supporter if the Warden decides to invoke kill all the Rite of Annulment on mages in the Circle (which means the Templars would execute every magic user in the tower), Tower, and is in turn the Warden's biggest critic if you use magic to save Arl Eamon's son Connor from the demon. But for some reason, he approves of a thoroughly defeated powerful mage from his own people's greatest enemy using forbidden magic to slaughter a dozen or so elves to empower the Warden, and then allowing that mage to leave alive? What possible in-game reason could there be for this totally out-of-nowhere shift in priorities?
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[[folder:Sten and the Tevinter blood mage]]
* At the end of the quest to investigate the elven alienage in Denerim, you discover that a powerful Tevinter blood mage has been in charge of trafficking elven slaves back to the Tevinter homeland. Sten has several reactions that badly derail his established characterization:
** Instead of fighting, the blood mage offers the Warden a deal - he will give them a large sum of gold and proof of the slaving operation if the Warden allows him to leave with all the slaves. Sten approves. The same Sten that in almost all cases aggressively favors a fight and ''in the quest immediately prior to this one,'' suffers a steep disapproval drop if you surrender to Cauthrien instead of fighting. Also, the Tevinter Imperium is the Qunari's archnemesis and has been for hundreds of years at this point, so for Sten to be ok with a powerful member of the Imperium to walk out with a bunch of slaves is truly baffling.
** However, that pales in comparison to his reaction if you fight the blood mage and win. Before dealing the final blow, the mage will offer the Warden another deal: the blood mage will sacrifice all of the elven slaves in the room using blood magic to give the Warden a minor constitution boost. Sten approves if you take this deal, saying "A prudent choice, even if such foul magic must be involved." [[FlatWhat What.]] In literally every other conversation you have with Sten about magic, he unambiguously condemns it as a natural disaster whose practitioners could barely be called sentient. He is the Warden's biggest supporter if the Warden decides to invoke the Rite of Annulment on the Circle (which means the Templars would execute every magic user in the tower), and is in turn the Warden's biggest critic if you use magic to save Arl Eamon's son Connor from the demon. But for some reason, he approves of a thoroughly defeated powerful mage from his own people's greatest enemy using forbidden magic to slaughter a dozen or so elves to empower the Warden, and then allowing that mage to leave alive? What possible in-game reason could there be for this totally out-of-nowhere shift in priorities?
[[/folder]]
* At the end of the quest to investigate the elven alienage in Denerim, you discover that a powerful Tevinter blood mage has been in charge of trafficking elven slaves back to the Tevinter homeland. Sten has several reactions that badly derail his established characterization:
** Instead of fighting, the blood mage offers the Warden a deal - he will give them a large sum of gold and proof of the slaving operation if the Warden allows him to leave with all the slaves. Sten approves. The same Sten that in almost all cases aggressively favors a fight and ''in the quest immediately prior to this one,'' suffers a steep disapproval drop if you surrender to Cauthrien instead of fighting. Also, the Tevinter Imperium is the Qunari's archnemesis and has been for hundreds of years at this point, so for Sten to be ok with a powerful member of the Imperium to walk out with a bunch of slaves is truly baffling.
** However, that pales in comparison to his reaction if you fight the blood mage and win. Before dealing the final blow, the mage will offer the Warden another deal: the blood mage will sacrifice all of the elven slaves in the room using blood magic to give the Warden a minor constitution boost. Sten approves if you take this deal, saying "A prudent choice, even if such foul magic must be involved." [[FlatWhat What.]] In literally every other conversation you have with Sten about magic, he unambiguously condemns it as a natural disaster whose practitioners could barely be called sentient. He is the Warden's biggest supporter if the Warden decides to invoke the Rite of Annulment on the Circle (which means the Templars would execute every magic user in the tower), and is in turn the Warden's biggest critic if you use magic to save Arl Eamon's son Connor from the demon. But for some reason, he approves of a thoroughly defeated powerful mage from his own people's greatest enemy using forbidden magic to slaughter a dozen or so elves to empower the Warden, and then allowing that mage to leave alive? What possible in-game reason could there be for this totally out-of-nowhere shift in priorities?
[[/folder]]
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** He was planning to get away with it because he was supporting Logain and Logain was planning to be in charge by the time anything could be done about it. Logain was planning for the king to be out of the way (one way or anouther depending on how Ostagar went he'd either be dead or emotionally broken by the defeat) so Howe had free reign to do as he pleased, though probably not for long even without the Warden and their allies interfering given how many of the noble families he was pissing off.
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[[folder:Howe's Plan]]
* What exactly was Howe's ultimate goal when he seized Highever? The Couslands were universally beloved and his coup is hardly secret. King Cailan even tells the last Cousland that upon his return from Ostagar, Howe will hang. It's probable that Howe didn't expect any Cousland to escape, but Howe would still have to answer to Cailan upon his hypothetical return as to why he now controls Highever and its popular ruling noble house (that he was subordinate to, as a vassal) has been completely exterminated. In reality, it would seem to Howe that the only route to self-preservation would be to ensure that Cailan never returned from Ostagar, but that raises significant questions about when Loghain decided to turn on Cailan.
[[/folder]]
* What exactly was Howe's ultimate goal when he seized Highever? The Couslands were universally beloved and his coup is hardly secret. King Cailan even tells the last Cousland that upon his return from Ostagar, Howe will hang. It's probable that Howe didn't expect any Cousland to escape, but Howe would still have to answer to Cailan upon his hypothetical return as to why he now controls Highever and its popular ruling noble house (that he was subordinate to, as a vassal) has been completely exterminated. In reality, it would seem to Howe that the only route to self-preservation would be to ensure that Cailan never returned from Ostagar, but that raises significant questions about when Loghain decided to turn on Cailan.
[[/folder]]
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*** It doesn't matter that he helped, he's not good enough to be a Warden.
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** Yes, but as I already mentioned he had helped the City Elf Warden accomplish what made them in Duncan's eyes fit to be recruited into the Grey Wardens. They didn't slaughter every person at that estate by themselves which is why they were both going to be sent to the dungeons.
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** Yes, but as I already mentioned he had helped the City Elf Warden accomplish what made them in Duncan's eyes fit to be recruited into Grey Wardens. They didn't slaughter every person at that estate by themselves.
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** Yes, but as I already mentioned he had helped the City Elf Warden accomplish what made them in Duncan's eyes fit to be recruited into the Grey Wardens. They didn't slaughter every person at that estate by themselves.themselves which is why they were both going to be sent to the dungeons.
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* In the City Elf Orgin Duncan doesn't recruit Soris because he believes he's not capable of being a Grey Warden unlike the Warden, but that logic doesn't add up. If you're a male, then Soris helped you break into the castle and kill every person their for the same reason you did. If you're a female it makes even less since, because then he broke into the castle with your fiancé and was the one to make it out alive.
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* In the City Elf Orgin Duncan doesn't recruit Soris because he believes he's not capable of being a Grey Warden unlike the Warden, but that logic doesn't add up. If you're a male, then Soris helped you break into the castle and kill every person their for the same reason you did. If you're a female it makes even less since, sense, because then he broke into the castle with your fiancé and was the one to make it out alive.
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** Yes, but as I already mentioned he had helped the City Elf Warden accomplish what made them in Duncan's eyes fit to be recruited into Grey Wardens. They didn't slaughter every person at that estate by themselves.
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** He has the courage but not the skill, that's the whole point, the Wardens only recruit the very best which all the potential players are but their starting friends are not.
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[[folder: Why didn't Duncan recruit Soris]]
* In the City Elf Orgin Duncan doesn't recruit Soris because he believes he's not capable of being a Grey Warden unlike the Warden, but that logic doesn't add up. If you're a male, then Soris helped you break into the castle and kill every person their for the same reason you did. If you're a female it makes even less since, because then he broke into the castle with your fiancé and was the one to make it out alive.
* In the City Elf Orgin Duncan doesn't recruit Soris because he believes he's not capable of being a Grey Warden unlike the Warden, but that logic doesn't add up. If you're a male, then Soris helped you break into the castle and kill every person their for the same reason you did. If you're a female it makes even less since, because then he broke into the castle with your fiancé and was the one to make it out alive.
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[[folder: Why didn't Duncan recruit Soris]]
Soris?]]
* In the City Elf Orgin Duncan doesn't recruit Soris because he believes he's not capable of being a Grey Warden unlike the Warden, but that logic doesn't add up. If you're a male, then Soris helped you break into the castle and kill every person their for the same reason you did. If you're a female it makes even less since, because then he broke into the castle with your fiancé and was the one to make it outalive.alive.
[[/folder]]
* In the City Elf Orgin Duncan doesn't recruit Soris because he believes he's not capable of being a Grey Warden unlike the Warden, but that logic doesn't add up. If you're a male, then Soris helped you break into the castle and kill every person their for the same reason you did. If you're a female it makes even less since, because then he broke into the castle with your fiancé and was the one to make it out
[[/folder]]
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[[/folder]]
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[[folder: Why didn't Duncan recruit Soris]]
* In the City Elf Orgin Duncan doesn't recruit Soris because he believes he's not capable of being a Grey Warden unlike the Warden, but that logic doesn't add up. If you're a male, then Soris helped you break into the castle and kill every person their for the same reason you did. If you're a female it makes even less since, because then he broke into the castle with your fiancé and was the one to make it out alive.
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[-'''UPDATE''':-] ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'' Headscratchers grew too massive for one page. The second half was removed and placed in a [[Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartII Part II]], and a third half to [[Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartIII Part III]]. The second page is free to edit the folders ''already'' within. '''New edits should be added to THIS PAGE for coherence's sake.''' Repeat topics will be moved or removed.
[-'''Part II:''' Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartII -]
[-'''Part III:''' Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartIII -]
[-'''Part II:''' Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartII -]
[-'''Part III:''' Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartIII -]
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[-'''UPDATE''':-] ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'' Headscratchers grew too massive for one page. The second half part was removed and placed in a [[Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartII Part II]], and a third half part to [[Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartIII Part III]]. The second page is free to edit the folders ''already'' within. '''New edits should be added to THIS PAGE for coherence's sake.''' Repeat topics will be moved or removed.
[-'''Part II:''' Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartII -]
[-'''Part III:''' Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartIII -]
'''[[Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartII Part II]] - [[Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartIII Part III]]'''
[-'''Part III:''' Headscratchers/DragonAgeOriginsPartIII -]
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* Because it was a horrible thing that happened. You can point out there was no other choice and he will acknowledge that but he's still upset about the turn of events. Some times people get upset no matter how nicely you try or if you had no other options.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Killing Connor rage]]
Why is Alistair so upset if you decide to kill Connor or Isolde do it even if you have no mages in your group at the time, let Jowan go free and haven't been to the circle let meaning it was your only choice. Also, wasn't Alistair the one who SUGGESTED DOING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE if he's with you at the time?
[[folder: Killing Connor rage]]
Why is Alistair so upset if you decide to kill Connor or Isolde do it even if you have no mages in your group at the time, let Jowan go free and haven't been to the circle let meaning it was your only choice. Also, wasn't Alistair the one who SUGGESTED DOING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE if he's with you at the time?
