History Headscratchers / DawnOfWar

20th Mar '16 12:13:30 PM BlackSunNocturne
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** Going back to the original table top fluff, Terminator armor was originally designed for use in boarding actions (and other similarly enclosed spaces). As such most of the weapons available to it are designed for fighting waves of infantry in an enclosed space. The Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter and Heavy Flamer are all geared towards this, maximizing rate of fire and anti-infantry damage at the cost of range and anti-vehicle capability, the power fist or chain fist for a secondary weapon is there primarily to allow the Terminator to knock his way through a sealed door or a wall if required (Sargeants get Power Swords which are less useful but are mostly a symbol of rank). Similarly the default melee option (Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield) is designed to maximize protection to fire from in front of a Terminator while he advances down a corridor to take out a strong point. The only Terminator weapons that don't really fit with this are the Cyclone Missile Launcher and Lightning Claws, I'm not aware of any fluff regarding these but my assumption is that they were later add-ons designed to give Terminators a bit more flexibility when they started getting deployed in open terrain. TL;DR version: Terminators are specialists and their weapon options reflect this.

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** Going back to the original table top fluff, Terminator armor was originally designed for use in boarding actions (and other similarly enclosed spaces). As such most of the weapons available to it are designed for fighting waves of infantry in an enclosed space. The Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter and Heavy Flamer are all geared towards this, maximizing rate of fire and anti-infantry damage at the cost of range and anti-vehicle capability, the power fist or chain fist for a secondary weapon is there primarily to allow the Terminator to knock his way through a sealed door or a wall if required (Sargeants (Sergeants get Power Swords which are less useful but are mostly a symbol of rank). Similarly the default melee option (Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield) is designed to maximize protection to fire from in front of a Terminator while he advances down a corridor to take out a strong point. The only Terminator weapons that don't really fit with this are the Cyclone Missile Launcher and Lightning Claws, I'm not aware of any fluff regarding these but my assumption is that they were later add-ons designed to give Terminators a bit more flexibility when they started getting deployed in open terrain. TL;DR version: Terminators are specialists and their weapon options reflect this.
*** Just gonna point this out: Lightning Claws fill a similar role to Power Fists and Chainfists. They're for brutally effective melee combat and making mince-meat out of armoured and unarmoured targets (amusingly, Lightning Claws aren't that good against ''other'' Terminators).
22nd Nov '15 11:16:56 AM dvorak
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*** Remember Eliphas' OhNoNotAgain when the Daemon Prince gives him the gears for losing? He was in the Basilica of Torment for losing at the Siege if Terra as well.
20th Nov '15 3:21:41 PM CountDorku
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*** The Literature/HorusHeresy novels aren't finished yet. We know that the Alpha Legion ''started'' by turning against the Emperor in order to defeat Chaos from within in a long, humanity-annihilating game. We ''don't'' know that this is where they finished, and there's been foreshadowing that Chaotic influence is seeping in (Omegon plotting against Alpharius in ''The Primarchs'', for example). And even if the Legion as a whole remains comparatively pure (unlikely, given that they do suffer from mutations in their Index Astartes article), there could very easily be splinter groups that have fallen into the hands of the Dark Gods while going undercover in Chaos parties.
7th Nov '15 12:51:51 PM littlebeeper
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** The Tau do not have noses. The Tau are fighting every other faction in the galaxy, who have noses. The sentence "We (noseless Tau) will steal right from under their (nose-having aliens) nosess" therefore makes sense.

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** The Tau do not have noses. The Tau are fighting every other faction in the galaxy, who have noses. The sentence "We (noseless Tau) will steal right from under their (nose-having aliens) nosess" noses" therefore makes sense.
30th Oct '15 5:18:07 PM Discar
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*** No, only Chaos Marines. That's why the only Marines still alive from the Heresy are are Chaos Marines, except for all the people still alive since then of course.
*** The only known loyalist Marine still in existence from the time of the Heresy is Bjorn the Fell-Handed, a Space Wolf. And he's been a Dreadnought (i.e., technically dead) for millennia now. Even in his current resurrected state his years weigh heavily on him and he's inactive most of the time.

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*** ** No, only Chaos Marines. That's why the only Marines still alive from the Heresy are are Chaos Marines, except for all the people still alive since then of course.
*** ** The only known loyalist Marine still in existence from the time of the Heresy is Bjorn the Fell-Handed, a Space Wolf. And he's been a Dreadnought (i.e., technically dead) for millennia now. Even in his current resurrected state his years weigh heavily on him and he's inactive most of the time.



*** The intro for the Chaos Campaign says he was an Aspiring Chaos Champion. After the whole 'Basilica of Torment' thing, he spent his time becoming an Exalted Chaos Lord.
*** There weren't Aspiring Champions before the Heresy. He was probably a squad sergeant. which would have been (and still is, in loyalist chapters) the equivalent.

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*** ** The intro for the Chaos Campaign says he was an Aspiring Chaos Champion. After the whole 'Basilica of Torment' thing, he spent his time becoming an Exalted Chaos Lord.
*** ** There weren't Aspiring Champions before the Heresy. He was probably a squad sergeant. which would have been (and still is, in loyalist chapters) the equivalent.



*** That would make sense if the being giving Sindri his power boost was the Maldedictum demon, as opposed to Khorne; Khorne plays chess by flipping the board over and punching you in the face. I guess we can assume that Sindri never actually became a Daemon Prince, he was just boosted by the Maledictum demon to absurd proportions in order to get one last big bloodbath.

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*** ** That would make sense if the being giving Sindri his power boost was the Maldedictum demon, as opposed to Khorne; Khorne plays chess by flipping the board over and punching you in the face. I guess we can assume that Sindri never actually became a Daemon Prince, he was just boosted by the Maledictum demon to absurd proportions in order to get one last big bloodbath.
29th Oct '15 6:10:22 PM Conradus
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*** The only known loyalist Marine still in existence from the time of the Heresy is Bjorn the Fell-Handed, a Space Wolf. And he's been a Dreadnought (i.e., technically dead) for millennia now. Even in his current resurrected state his years weight heavily on him and he's inactive most of the time.

to:

*** The only known loyalist Marine still in existence from the time of the Heresy is Bjorn the Fell-Handed, a Space Wolf. And he's been a Dreadnought (i.e., technically dead) for millennia now. Even in his current resurrected state his years weight weigh heavily on him and he's inactive most of the time.
29th Oct '15 6:09:16 PM Conradus
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** No only Chaos Marines that's why the only Marines still alive from the Heresy are are Chaos Marines, except for all the people still alive since then of course.
** The only known loyalist Marine still in existence from the time of the Heresy is Bjorn the Fell-Handed, a Space Wolf. And he's now a Dreadnought (i.e., technically dead). Even in his current resurrected state his years weight heavily on him and he's inactive most of the time.

to:

** No *** No, only Chaos Marines that's Marines. That's why the only Marines still alive from the Heresy are are Chaos Marines, except for all the people still alive since then of course.
** *** The only known loyalist Marine still in existence from the time of the Heresy is Bjorn the Fell-Handed, a Space Wolf. And he's now been a Dreadnought (i.e., technically dead).dead) for millennia now. Even in his current resurrected state his years weight heavily on him and he's inactive most of the time.



** The intro for the Chaos Campaign says he was an Aspiring Chaos Champion. After the whole 'Basilica of Torment' thing, he spent his time becoming an Exalted Chaos Lord.

to:

** *** The intro for the Chaos Campaign says he was an Aspiring Chaos Champion. After the whole 'Basilica of Torment' thing, he spent his time becoming an Exalted Chaos Lord.
*** There weren't Aspiring Champions before the Heresy. He was probably a squad sergeant. which would have been (and still is, in loyalist chapters) the equivalent.
29th Oct '15 6:05:19 PM Conradus
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Added DiffLines:

** The only known loyalist Marine still in existence from the time of the Heresy is Bjorn the Fell-Handed, a Space Wolf. And he's now a Dreadnought (i.e., technically dead). Even in his current resurrected state his years weight heavily on him and he's inactive most of the time.
14th Sep '15 2:42:22 PM brianify
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to:

*** That would make sense if the being giving Sindri his power boost was the Maldedictum demon, as opposed to Khorne; Khorne plays chess by flipping the board over and punching you in the face. I guess we can assume that Sindri never actually became a Daemon Prince, he was just boosted by the Maledictum demon to absurd proportions in order to get one last big bloodbath.
29th Aug '15 11:16:17 AM Discar
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[[folder:Eldar astrography]]

* Hang on. The Eldar's plan was to stall the Tyranid invasion on a few planets on the Eastern Fringe, because the swarm's next target would be Craftworld Ulthwé itself...which is orbiting the Eye of Terror on the ''other side of the galaxy''. A possible AuthorsSavingThrow in ''Chaos Rising'': When you go down to kill the Avatar, the Eldar make mention that there is a "ruined Craftworld" buried on Typhon that was uncovered by the Tyranid invasion.
** It should be noted that the Eldar usually take the long view on events. So it's likely that they were thinking about a few centuries down the road. That's right, the Eldar planned on screwing over an entire sector because the Tyranids were going to attack one of their Craftworlds in a century or so. The Eldars are dicks like that.
** It is possible the Eldar lied about protecting their Craftworld; as Tarkus notes, the Eldar lie whenever it suits their agenda. In this case, the "invasion of Ulthwé" was a lie to coverup the relics on Typhon, by convincing the Space Marines that they had thwarted the Eldar. This is doubly true when you realize that the Eldar probably know parts of the Blood Raven chapter are actually traitors; they would probably treat Spirit Stones as Scooby Snacks for demons.
** ''Chaos Rising'' does address this, somewhat. The Tyranid attack on Typhon Primaris uncovered Eldar ruins buried beneath the surface. The Eldar wanted to protect something long hidden there, and if that something was a webway gate that they were unable to seal, that could spell disaster should the Tyranids get through it.
** ''Retribution'' finally gives a straight answer. [[spoiler: There was indeed a ruined Craftworld underneath Typhon. The Eldar are trying to access the ruins and retrieve buried Soulstones before they're eaten by Tyranids, Chaos finds them first, or the Inquisition decides to [[{{Earth Shattering Kaboom}} blow the planet]]. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero They fail due to your actions in all the campaigns.]]]]
** Also, [[spoiler: Taldeer's original prophecy, which gets this whole ball rolling back in ''Dark Crusade'', was a prophecy about Necrons, not Tyranids, laying waste to Craftworld Ulthwe. The most logical assumption is either Idranel misspoke of the Tyranids causing all the damage, or she misinterpreted the prophecy.]]

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Blood Raven Relics]]

* Exactly what are the chapter relics from a dozen or more different Space Marine chapters doing, spread around on the recruiting worlds of the Blood Ravens? Logically, the invading Orks, Eldar and Tyranids wouldn't be bringing those with them from where they came from, which meant they picked them up somewhere on the recruiting worlds during the campaign. [[KleptomaniacHero Makes you wonder if that 'raven' should be a 'magpie', doesn't it?]]
** The Blood Ravens are certainly not above looting dead marines from other chapters. One fairly early armor you can find in DOW II (I forget the name) was originally from a Grey Knight Justicar who died during the Kronus campaign. The Blood Ravens were said to have taken it to prevent it from falling into the "traitorous Imperial Guard hands".
** I assumed everyone was a scavenger to a degree because of the UsedFuture.
** Scavenger is one thing, but stealing from [[ImpossibleThief Primarchs and Abbadon]] is another.

[[/folder]]
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