History Headscratchers / Berserk

19th Sep '16 3:13:14 PM trixus
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* Does Femto has a berserker armor relation going on? I don't know if it was just early installment but when Griffith is in Femto form he is almost disgusted by human life and as detached from the world as the other Godhand while in his Griffith form he seeks adulation from humans and apostle alike, engineering his kingdom as the only safe place. It just seems weird since it doesn't feel like a disguise and more Griffith having a second super mode that make him even colder.

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* Does Femto has have a berserker armor relation power going on? I don't know if it was just early installment but when Griffith is in Femto form he is almost disgusted by human life and as detached from the world as the other Godhand while in his Griffith form he seeks adulation from humans and apostle alike, engineering his kingdom as the only safe place. It just seems weird since it doesn't feel like a disguise and more Griffith having a second super mode that make him even colder.more inhuman.
19th Sep '16 12:43:51 AM trixus
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** My theory is that approximatly 1000 to 864 years ago the man who would become Void and the Skull Knight, created the crimson behelit or the [[spoiler: Idea of Evil]] had finally gained enough power throw one through, I think that upon that moment Void sacrficed the Skull Knight, but like Gutts, he escaped (obviously through different means [[spoiler: maybe he used the crimson behelit and thats how he found out how to use their power]] ), then with Void as a Godhand the [[spoiler: Idea of Evil]] had an avatar to spread the normal behelits' and used the threads of causality to make the [[spoiler: gathering of the five godhands and the fusing of realities]] happen.

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** My theory is that approximatly 1000 to 864 years ago the man who would become Void and the Skull Knight, created the crimson behelit or the [[spoiler: Idea of Evil]] had finally gained enough power throw one through, I think that upon that moment Void sacrficed the Skull Knight, but like Gutts, he escaped (obviously through different means [[spoiler: maybe he used the crimson behelit and thats how he found out how to use their power]] ), then with Void as a Godhand the [[spoiler: Idea of Evil]] had an avatar to spread the normal behelits' and used the threads of causality to make the [[spoiler: gathering of the five godhands and the fusing of realities]] happen.happen.
* Does Femto has a berserker armor relation going on? I don't know if it was just early installment but when Griffith is in Femto form he is almost disgusted by human life and as detached from the world as the other Godhand while in his Griffith form he seeks adulation from humans and apostle alike, engineering his kingdom as the only safe place. It just seems weird since it doesn't feel like a disguise and more Griffith having a second super mode that make him even colder.
19th Sep '16 12:28:46 AM trixus
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*** Maybe it's just that the other three stopped caring about vanity or even looking human as time went on and assume an appearance that suits them better.


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** In my translation he said go out there and make me some money, which fits more.


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*** That's just to twist the knife even further, her body is being aroused right in front of her lover while being raped by the Devil, that makes the don't watch more poignant than if it was pure violence because shame is being combined with powerlessness.
16th Sep '16 9:36:30 PM finalfaw
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* So if a Godhand get chosen every 216 years, is humanity like 1100 years old? Like how long did it took the Idea of Evil to say hey let's make behelit and name that guy Vortex. In a way it gives some hope because hey the Devil wasn't always there and the world might outlive him.

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* So if a Godhand get chosen every 216 years, is humanity like 1100 years old? Like how long did it took the Idea of Evil to say hey let's make behelit and name that guy Vortex.Void. In a way it gives some hope because hey the Devil wasn't always there and the world might outlive him.



** Maybe the Godhand are a cyclical thing. They get chosen over a millennium, do their thing, end up causing a huge civilization collapse, and then disappear (get absorbed into the Idea of Evil, maybe?) while humanity gets thrown back into the start of a brand new dark age, where new Godhand get chosen, rinse, repeat. Alternatively, the Idea of Evil wasn't born with as much power as it has now, it was through generations upon generations of humans desiring for a reason for their suffering that empowered it to the point it could actually do something.

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** Maybe the Godhand are a cyclical thing. They get chosen over a millennium, do their thing, end up causing a huge civilization collapse, and then disappear (get absorbed into the Idea of Evil, maybe?) while humanity gets thrown back into the start of a brand new dark age, where new Godhand get chosen, rinse, repeat. Alternatively, the Idea of Evil wasn't born with as much power as it has now, it was through generations upon generations of humans desiring for a reason for their suffering that empowered it to the point it could actually do something.something.
** My theory is that approximatly 1000 to 864 years ago the man who would become Void and the Skull Knight, created the crimson behelit or the [[spoiler: Idea of Evil]] had finally gained enough power throw one through, I think that upon that moment Void sacrficed the Skull Knight, but like Gutts, he escaped (obviously through different means [[spoiler: maybe he used the crimson behelit and thats how he found out how to use their power]] ), then with Void as a Godhand the [[spoiler: Idea of Evil]] had an avatar to spread the normal behelits' and used the threads of causality to make the [[spoiler: gathering of the five godhands and the fusing of realities]] happen.
16th Sep '16 9:19:55 PM finalfaw
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** as for how fucked up the other godhand are, (I'm assuming Slan is the youngest of the "original" 4) maybe as time goes on their corruption starts to get worse and worse hence why the oldest three all look like cenobite concepts, but both Slan and Femto look more like what you would assume "traditional" demons look like, give it a couple of centuries and maybe Slan and Femto will both look just like the rest of the Gigers' nightmare posse.
16th Sep '16 9:02:42 PM finalfaw
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** In the simplest of terms for why does the Godhand do what they do? Because they can! they are all a Immortal demongod level HumanoidAbomination, the apostle thing is presumibly boredom, whose to say the Berserk world isnt the only world they fucked over? maybe every godhand member comes from...somewhere else, and what happens is they become a Godhand, incarnate on their native plane, take over, cause the apocalypse, then fade back into the M.C Escher world and move on, spreading their ArtifactOfDoom to repeat the cycle?
23rd Aug '16 12:45:29 AM darksoul4242
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*** It seems to me that Griffith even in the beginning started out as a vindictive, power-hungry, amoral son of a bitch who would do just about ''anything'' to achieve his goals. Think about some of the things he does ''before'' the eclipse: He plans two different assassinations of nobles just below the king, in the process orders a man's daughter kidnapped and held as insurance... These are not the acts of an okay guy. That's why he relied on Guts to keep that kind of thing a secret. He wanted to keep up the appearance of being perfect. The events of the eclipse just cement how villainous he actually was - torture and humilation or not, he knew exactly what he was doing when he gave up the hawks as a sacrifice, and decided that their lives were worth less than power. So I figure that after RapingTheDog so spectacularly little things like making apostles and fucking the world up really isn't too big of a challenge.

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*** It seems to me that Griffith even in the beginning started out as a vindictive, power-hungry, amoral son of a bitch who would do just about ''anything'' to achieve his goals. Think about some of the things he does ''before'' the eclipse: He plans two different assassinations of nobles just below the king, in the process orders a man's daughter kidnapped and held as insurance... These are not the acts of an okay guy. That's why he relied on Guts to keep that kind of thing a secret. He wanted to keep up the appearance of being perfect. The events of the eclipse just cement how villainous he actually was - torture and humilation or not, he knew exactly what he was doing when he gave up the hawks as a sacrifice, and decided that their lives were worth less than power. So I figure that after RapingTheDog so spectacularly such a spectacular jump over the MoralEventHorizon, little things like making apostles and fucking the world up really isn't too big of a challenge.



*** The key word here is "why?". Griffith ''did'' do a lot of terrible stuff, but he always had a reason for it: it was to pursue his dream of being a ruler. Assassinating his enemies, sacrificing the Hawks, and all that, were things he did to accomplish his goals. But ''immediately'' after becoming a demon, he rapes Casca just ForTheEvulz. It's pretty clear that demonhood includes RapingTheDog for no reason at all as part of the package.

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*** The key word here is "why?". Griffith ''did'' do a lot of terrible stuff, but he always had a reason for it: it was to pursue his dream of being a ruler. Assassinating his enemies, sacrificing the Hawks, and all that, were things he did to accomplish his goals. But ''immediately'' after becoming a demon, he rapes Casca just ForTheEvulz. It's pretty clear that demonhood includes RapingTheDog going over the MoralEventHorizon for no reason at all as part of the package.



*** Griffith did behave badly but the setting of the story is such that he had too if he wished to advance. The whole torture thing however meant that he was psychological destroyed and thus promises of power were lapped up by him. So while he is undoubtly the villian, he remains quite sympathetic.
*** And he completely destroyed any sympathy he had when he raped Casca. Sacrificing the Hawks, while really bad, is at least understandable from his position. It was the only way to pursue his dream, he was physically and mentally broken at the time, and the Godhand didn't portray it as all that different than his men dieing for him on the battlefield. But what he did to Casca has no excuse at all. It wasn't necessary at all, it was just him being jealous and spiteful, having a powertrip where he gets back at Guts and Casca for "rejecting" him and destroying the two of them in the process. It's the point where he crosses from being merely 'ruthless' into being outright Evil.

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*** Griffith did behave badly but the setting of the story is such that he had too to if he wished to advance. The whole torture thing however meant that he was psychological psychologically destroyed and thus promises of power were lapped up by him. So while he is undoubtly the villian, villain, he remains quite sympathetic.
*** And he completely destroyed any sympathy he had when he raped Casca. Sacrificing the Hawks, while really bad, is at least understandable from his position. It was the only way to pursue his dream, he was physically and mentally broken at the time, and the Godhand didn't portray it as all that different than his men dieing dying for him on the battlefield. But what he did to Casca has no excuse at all. It wasn't necessary at all, it was just him being jealous and spiteful, having a powertrip where he gets back at Guts and Casca for "rejecting" him and destroying the two of them in the process. It's the point where he crosses from being merely 'ruthless' into being outright Evil.



*** This troper always interpreted it as revenge aimed at Guts. Griffith wasn't blind to Caska's devotion to her commander. Sociopathic narcissists often intentionally act oblivious to the emotions of others to soak up their affection without having to share in it and given Griffith's high standard of what constitutes a friend, he clearly isn't above viewing the Hawks as privately below him. Knowing he was about to lose his most loyal follower and the man he trusted enough to keep privy his most dire acts of ambition (the assassinations he cut Guts in on) was a blow to his ego he couldn't take. Notice how little Femto reacts to raping Caska, all while staring Guts dead in the eyes. It wasn't about her, it was about hurting him through her.
*** This troper took things a little differently. Griffith doesn't really qualify as sociopathic (at least in the Golden Age). Guts, an emotionally stunted individual, puts out his first real emotional connection since age 6 to this charismatic leader and the men who follow him. Then, when he thinks that he and Griffith are Twu Fwiends, he overhears Griffith's monologue to Charlotte. Griffith there states that any man who serves Griffith and not himself is not an equal, and therefore no true friend, but rather a tool for Griffith to use. This causes Guts to leave, emotional connection bruised. Griffith, on the other hand, freaks out when the ONLY person he is shown to let his guard down with (regularly) is leaving. Griffith seems similarly stunted in his ability to reach out to people, and when HIS friendship with Guts is threatened. It seems that his speech to Charlotte is more a veiled admission that he doesn't care about her at all, and that she is a means to an end. He thinks of Guts as a friend, but his own emotional hangups keep him at arms length, and he uses him as a tool for his own purposes. It's less that Griffith is narcissistic and more that he feels he can't AFFORD to be seen as a normal part of the group. That's why Guts leaving hits him so hard, and why Guts taking Casca (his second closest emotional attachment) from him puts him over the edge, which in turn makes him ripe for the [[MoralEventHorizon Moral Event Horizon]] of the Eclipse. The rape is just pure mean-spirited "You ruined me, I'll ruin you". Basically, he was punishing them both (mostly Guts) for their perceived betrayal.
*** Indeed, this troper thinks that if [[spoiler: The Skull Knight]] hadn't saved the day, Femto would probably have tossed Casca to the rest of his horde and did the same thing to Guts ... assuming Femto survived the latter experience.

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*** This troper always interpreted it as revenge aimed at Guts. Griffith wasn't blind to Caska's devotion to her commander. Sociopathic narcissists often intentionally act oblivious to the emotions of others to soak up their affection without having to share in it and given Griffith's high standard of what constitutes a friend, he clearly isn't above viewing the Hawks as privately below him. Knowing he was about to lose his most loyal follower and the man he trusted enough to keep privy privvy his most dire acts of ambition (the assassinations he cut Guts in on) was a blow to his ego he couldn't take. Notice how little Femto reacts to raping Caska, all while staring Guts dead in the eyes. It wasn't about her, it was about hurting him through her.
*** This troper took things a little differently. Griffith doesn't really qualify as sociopathic (at least in the Golden Age). Guts, an emotionally stunted individual, puts out his first real emotional connection since age 6 to this charismatic leader and the men who follow him. Then, when he thinks that he and Griffith are Twu Fwiends, True Friends, he overhears Griffith's monologue to Charlotte. Griffith there states that any man who serves Griffith and not himself is not an equal, and therefore no true friend, but rather a tool for Griffith to use. This causes Guts to leave, emotional connection bruised. Griffith, on the other hand, freaks out when the ONLY person he is shown to let his guard down with (regularly) is leaving. Griffith seems similarly stunted in his ability to reach out to people, and when HIS friendship with Guts is threatened. It seems that his speech to Charlotte is more a veiled admission that he doesn't care about her at all, and that she is a means to an end. He thinks of Guts as a friend, but his own emotional hangups keep him at arms length, and he uses him as a tool for his own purposes. It's less that Griffith is narcissistic and more that he feels he can't AFFORD to be seen as a normal part of the group. That's why Guts leaving hits him so hard, and why Guts taking Casca (his second closest emotional attachment) from him puts him over the edge, which in turn makes him ripe for the [[MoralEventHorizon Moral Event Horizon]] MoralEventHorizon of the Eclipse. The rape is just pure mean-spirited "You ruined me, I'll ruin you". Basically, he was punishing them both (mostly Guts) for their perceived betrayal.
*** Indeed, this troper thinks that if [[spoiler: The Skull Knight]] hadn't saved the day, Femto would probably have tossed Casca to the rest of his horde and did done the same thing to Guts ... assuming Femto survived the latter experience.



*** All of this is why Griffith is one of the best villains in all fiction. We usually see villains as Evil people that either are always EVIL or have just an excuse for it. But in Griffith we see him slide all the way. Personally I think becoming an Apostle either directly or indirectly affected his mind, taking off his conscience or perhaps inflating his ego all the way to complete psychosis (heck, this ambiguity is another example of Miura's genius). He started as a flawed man and an archetype of an ambitious leader, that did evil for a reason. Then he became a pathetic and spiteful being, looking for his former glory and hating those around him because he couldn't get that glory back. As such he did questionable and desperate choices, because he was in such a state that he couldn't see anything but his pains. In a way the truth is that the whole Griffith arc palys like a tragedy, and from his point of view it seems he didn't want it all to happen that way and that he was truly destiny's toy. But after choosing to sacrifice his comrades, from a moral and storytelling-wise view, Griffith made his choice: his pride and ambitions over his friends. Raping Casca, probably to spite Guts, just shows that he had lost all and any sympathetic characteristics, and that he did so from his own choice. Thus we have the complete fall from a complex man to an unreemedable demon.

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*** All of this is why Griffith is one of the best villains in all fiction. We usually see villains as Evil people that either are always EVIL or have just an excuse for it. But in Griffith we see him slide all the way. Personally I think becoming an Apostle either directly or indirectly affected his mind, taking off his conscience or perhaps inflating his ego all the way to complete psychosis (heck, this ambiguity is another example of Miura's genius). He started as a flawed man and an archetype of an ambitious leader, that did evil for a reason. Then he became a pathetic and spiteful being, looking for his former glory and hating those around him because he couldn't get that glory back. As such he did questionable and desperate choices, because he was in such a state that he couldn't see anything but his pains. In a way the truth is that the whole Griffith arc palys plays like a tragedy, and from his point of view it seems he didn't want it all to happen that way and that he was truly destiny's toy. But after choosing to sacrifice his comrades, from a moral and storytelling-wise view, Griffith made his choice: his pride and ambitions over his friends. Raping Casca, probably to spite Guts, just shows that he had lost all and any sympathetic characteristics, and that he did so from his own choice. Thus we have the complete fall from a complex man to an unreemedable unredeemable demon.



** To begin, we don't know much about what the God Hand actually DO. Our only perspective is essentially them acting as opposition to Guts. They haven't directly killed many people - barring the whole eclipse. Speaking of the Eclipse, it wasn't a malicious event. At least not on the part of the God Hand. The Apostles were essentially on monster holiday and were more than happy to massacre the Hawks. The BlueAndOrangeMorality of the God Hand made them unable or simply not wanting to intervene. They are all about Causality and feeding the natural spirit of the world back into itself. In an age where fear and war and death are prevalent, they too will be evil and rejoice in blood. Griffith is chosen because he embodies Humanities need for a savior, he hopes to fulfill that dream in life, but his ambition is dashed to the ground in the [[spoiler:torture chamber where he is mutilated.]] Once he [[spoiler: becomes Femto and proceeds to rape Casca, I think that the decision was out of his hands. Again it could have been just like the apostles his first instinct as a member of God Hand was to cause pain in the most 'Human' way he could think of]] At any rate the God hand are so far removed from the needs of the individual because they deal in global concepts and any action they take can be expected to have symbolic meaning.
** Why do the God Hand offer to turn people into Apostles? Because they ''can'', and because it's the only thing they can still do that has meaning. They are immortal, and as near to omnipotent and omniscient as it's possible to be. There is nothing left for them to reach for, nothing to accomplish, no more power to attain. Their lives after their transformation are pure AndThenWhat? And the last thing they did was betray and destroy the people who loved and trusted them.

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** To begin, we don't know much about what the God Hand actually DO. Our only perspective is essentially them acting as opposition to Guts. They haven't directly killed many people - barring the whole eclipse. Speaking of the Eclipse, it wasn't a malicious event. At least not on the part of the God Hand. The Apostles were essentially on monster holiday and were more than happy to massacre the Hawks. The BlueAndOrangeMorality of the God Hand made them unable or simply not wanting to intervene. They are all about Causality and feeding the natural spirit of the world back into itself. In an age where fear and war and death are prevalent, they too will be evil and rejoice in blood. Griffith is chosen because he embodies Humanities Mankind's need for a savior, he hopes to fulfill that dream in life, but his ambition is dashed to the ground in the [[spoiler:torture chamber where he is mutilated.]] Once he [[spoiler: becomes Femto and proceeds to rape Casca, I think that the decision was out of his hands. Again it could have been just like the apostles Apostles, his first instinct as a member of God Hand was to cause pain in the most 'Human' way he could think of]] of]]. At any rate the God hand are so far removed from the needs of the individual because they deal in global concepts and any action they take can be expected to have symbolic meaning.
** Why do the God Hand offer to turn people into Apostles? Because they ''can'', and because it's the only thing they can still do that has meaning. They are immortal, and as near close to omnipotent and omniscient as it's possible to be. There is nothing left for them to reach for, nothing to accomplish, no more power to attain. Their lives after their transformation are pure AndThenWhat? And the last thing they did was betray and destroy the people who loved and trusted them.



** Remember that Guts' aversion to being touched has much to do with his trust in others as it does with a single physically and sexually traumatizing experience. Guts was not only raped as a child by one man, but the rape happened because he was betrayed by a man that he viewed as a father-figure. Guts might not have openly or even internally condemned Gambino for what he did to him, but it was obvious that his trust in others was ruined forever and it was therefore hard for him to form bonds with others. When Guts met Griffith, he was beginning to open up to him as a friend and he might have even as gone so far as to disclose to Griffith about his traumatizing past, but when he overheard Griffith's high expectations of what he considered a real friend (you can interpret that speech however you'd like; someone above gave a good analysis of it) - and how even Guts didn't seem to qualify for those expectations - that just shut the guy down even more. You notice that it was at this point that Guts starts to interact with Casca a lot more, especially after their time together after falling off of the cliff where they learned that they weren't so different from each other. He starts talking to her in a way that he never talked to Griffith in, showing how he is regaining his trust in forming relationship with people. It all accumulates to the point that he has an emotional breakdown while they're making love, where Guts spills all of the trauma he endured as a kid that he's been keeping in for all of these years. This is the first time that Guts shows such an emotionally damaged and fragile side to ''anyone'' and he is understandably ashamed and embarrassed because of this, but Casca soothed his wounds and pretty told him that it would all be okay in time because they had each other to cope with their trauma. It was at this point that Guts finally found somebody that he could trust and relate to, and in an ironic twist on Griffith's expectations of a true friend, '''it was Casca who became Guts' equal.''' But there was no doubt that Guts placed some trust in Griffith, since he at least considered Griffith his friend, but during the Eclipse, everything just came tumbling down. Griffith betrayed whatever trust that Guts had for him in a very epic way, and to make it worse, Griffith took away the one person that Guts knew that he could trust. And to make it extra worse, Griffith used Guts' issues in trust against him, since he horrifically tortured the person that made Guts regain his sense of trust in people (since Guts' trust in people is his Achilles' heel.). In short, Guts had two major violations of trust in his life: one when he was child and the other during the Eclipse, the latter taking it up to eleven by a) eliminating the trust he had in one person he cared for b) having the person whom he trusted AND loved being taken away and c) being forced to relive his first violation of trust which was very physical.

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** Remember that Guts' aversion to being touched has much to do with his trust in others as it does with a single physically and sexually traumatizing traumatising experience. Guts was not only raped as a child by one man, but the rape happened because he was betrayed by a man that he viewed as a father-figure. Guts might not have openly or even internally condemned Gambino for what he did to him, but it was obvious that his trust in others was ruined forever and it was therefore hard for him to form bonds with others. When Guts met Griffith, he was beginning to open up to him as a friend and he might have even as gone so far as to disclose to Griffith about his traumatizing traumatising past, but when he overheard Griffith's high expectations of what he considered a real friend (you can interpret that speech however you'd like; someone above gave a good analysis of it) - and how even Guts didn't seem to qualify for those expectations - that just shut the guy down even more. You notice that it was at this point that Guts starts to interact with Casca a lot more, especially after their time together after falling off of the cliff where they learned that they weren't so different from each other. He starts talking to her in a way that he never talked to Griffith in, showing how he is regaining his trust in forming relationship with people. It all accumulates to the point that he has an emotional breakdown while they're making love, where Guts spills all of the trauma he endured as a kid that he's been keeping in for all of these years. This is the first time that Guts shows such an emotionally damaged and fragile side to ''anyone'' and he is understandably ashamed and embarrassed because of this, but Casca soothed his wounds and pretty told him that it would all be okay in time because they had each other to cope with their trauma. It was at this point that Guts finally found somebody that he could trust and relate to, and in an ironic twist on Griffith's expectations of a true friend, '''it was Casca who became Guts' equal.''' But there was no doubt that Guts placed some trust in Griffith, since he at least considered Griffith his friend, but during the Eclipse, everything just came tumbling down. Griffith betrayed whatever trust that Guts had for him in a very epic way, and to make it worse, Griffith took away the one person that Guts knew that he could trust. And to make it extra worse, Griffith used Guts' issues in trust against him, since he horrifically tortured the person that made Guts regain his sense of trust in people (since Guts' trust in people is his Achilles' heel.). In short, Guts had two major violations of trust in his life: one when he was child and the other during the Eclipse, the latter taking it up to eleven by a) eliminating the trust he had in one person he cared for b) having the person whom he trusted AND loved being taken away and c) being forced to relive his first violation of trust which was very physical.
23rd Aug '16 12:35:04 AM darksoul4242
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*** I always thought that since he had sorta recently found out that Casca and Guts were hooking up, possibility of feeling abandoned or losing his trusty right hand warrior (Either one could be that), I thought the rape was some wierd "No, she's mine" thing.

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*** I always thought that since he had sorta recently found out that Casca and Guts were hooking up, possibility of feeling abandoned or losing his trusty right hand warrior (Either one could be that), I thought the rape was some wierd weird "No, she's mine" thing.
23rd Aug '16 12:32:03 AM darksoul4242
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*** I think it comes back to the idea of fate/destiny. They do what they do because they are ultimately cruel and evil people, becoming part of the Godhand probably ramps it up to 11 but it's still something that was there. Griffiths Behelit was to him a sign of destiny so he ran with it, I am guessing there's probably something in there about the idea of free will and destiny, the Godhand enslaved themselves to their destiny, and the words to do as they will is simply to do what their 'destiny' is in their eyes.

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*** I think it comes back to the idea of fate/destiny. They do what they do because they are ultimately cruel and evil people, becoming part of the Godhand probably ramps it up to 11 but it's still something that was there. Griffiths Griffith's Behelit was to him a sign of destiny so he ran with it, I am guessing there's probably something in there about the idea of free will and destiny, the Godhand enslaved themselves to their destiny, and the words to do as they will is simply to do what their 'destiny' is in their eyes.
16th Aug '16 12:52:49 PM SeanRenaud
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** Griffith would never have not needed Guts around. Midland politics has a lot of murder involved with it and honestly until the the King himself wads dead of natural causes or other and Griffith was firmly seated on the throne surrounded only by his followers there would always be one more person who needed killing. Despite being a mercenary band the majority of the Band of the Hawk are too moral to assassinate anybody. Corkus is the only one I believe had the heart to kill in cold blood and he's the least distinguished warrior of the named characters.
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