History Headscratchers / Berserk

28th Jan '16 3:59:45 AM Miumia
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** I'm pretty sure we don't know, actually. The first time I read Skull's words I assumed he was talking about what Casca's instance on the Griffith situation would be (go after him to kill him or forget about him, depending on what Gut wants). I was quite surprised that most people's interpretation of that warning was "she might not want to regain sanity", which doesn't fit Casca at all in my opinion.
13th Jan '16 7:35:35 PM DivineDeath
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*** Pay attention to Guts and Casca's sex scene. Casca is only crying and in clear pain at the beginning, and the reason why is because 1). It's her first time and 2). Guts is being overly rough and forceful. And the reason for that is partially because of his own inexperience with sex, but mostly because his mind is going back to his traumatic past. The scene is ''not'' being played for romance just yet; there's a very clear undercurrent of trouble that makes itself known once Guts puts his hands around her neck. Once they start going at it again after Guts' recovers from his freakout, things are shown to much more tender between them, with Casca displaying no signs of distress, pain, or discomfort. Casca's crying in both scenes is very consistent in showing when and how she is suffering.
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*** Pay attention to Guts and Casca's sex scene. Casca is only crying and in clear pain at the beginning, and the reason why is because 1). It's her first time and 2). Guts is being overly rough and forceful. And the reason for that is partially because of his own inexperience with sex, but mostly because his mind is going back to his traumatic past. The scene is ''not'' being played for romance just yet; there's a very clear undercurrent of trouble that makes itself known once Guts puts his hands around her neck. Once they start going at it again after Guts' recovers from his freakout, things are shown to much more tender between them, with Casca displaying no signs of distress, pain, or discomfort. Casca's crying in both scenes when she is having sex with Guts and being raped by Femto is very consistent in showing when and how she is suffering.
13th Jan '16 7:31:42 PM DivineDeath
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*** Pay attention to Guts and Casca's sex scene. Casca is only crying and in clear pain at the beginning, and the reason why is because 1). It's her first time and 2). Guts is being overly rough and forceful. And the reason for that is partially because of his own inexperience with sex, but mostly because his mind is going back to his traumatic past. The scene is ''not'' being played for heartwarming just yet; there's a very clear undercurrent of trouble that makes itself known once Guts puts his hands around her neck. Once they start going at it again after Guts' freakout, things are shown to much more tender between them, with Casca showing no signs of distress, pain, or discomfort. That's when the scene officially becomes romantic.
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*** Pay attention to Guts and Casca's sex scene. Casca is only crying and in clear pain at the beginning, and the reason why is because 1). It's her first time and 2). Guts is being overly rough and forceful. And the reason for that is partially because of his own inexperience with sex, but mostly because his mind is going back to his traumatic past. The scene is ''not'' being played for heartwarming romance just yet; there's a very clear undercurrent of trouble that makes itself known once Guts puts his hands around her neck. Once they start going at it again after Guts' recovers from his freakout, things are shown to much more tender between them, with Casca showing displaying no signs of distress, pain, or discomfort. That's Casca's crying in both scenes is very consistent in showing when the scene officially becomes romantic.and how she is suffering.
13th Jan '16 7:22:26 PM DivineDeath
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*** Pay attention to Guts and Casca's sex scene. Casca is only crying and in clear pain at the beginning, and the reason why is because 1). It's her first time and 2). Guts is being overly rough and forceful. And the reason for that is partially because of his own inexperience with sex, but mostly because his mind is going back to his traumatic past. The scene is ''not'' being played for heartwarming just yet; there's a very clear undercurrent of trouble that makes itself known once Guts puts his hands around her neck. Once they start going at it again after Guts' freakout, things are shown to much more tender between them, with Casca showing no signs of distress, pain, or discomfort. That's when the scene officially becomes romantic.
25th Dec '15 7:33:26 PM TheBigBopper
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****** All of this is why Griffith is one of the best villains in all fiction. We usually see villains as Evil people that either are always EVIL or have just an excuse for it. But in Griffith we see him slide all the way. Personally I think becoming an Apostle either directly or indirectly affected his mind, taking off his conscience or perhaps inflating his ego all the way to complete psychosis (heck, this ambiguousness is another example of Miura's genius). He started as a flawed man and an archetype of an ambitious leader, that did evil for a reason. Then he became a pathetic and spiteful being, looking for his former glory and hating those around him because he couldn't get that glory back. As such he did questionable and desperate choices, because he was in such a state that he couldn't see anything but his pains. In a way the truth is that the whole Griffith arc palys like a tragedy, and from his point of view it seems he didn't want it all to happen that way and that he was truly destiny's toy. But after choosing to sacrifice his comrades, from a moral and storytelling-wise view, Griffith made his choice: his pride and ambitions over his friends. Raping Casca, probably to spite Guts, just shows that he had lost all and any sympathetic characteristics, and that he did so from his own choice. Thus we have the complete fall from a complex man to an unreemedable demon.
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****** All of this is why Griffith is one of the best villains in all fiction. We usually see villains as Evil people that either are always EVIL or have just an excuse for it. But in Griffith we see him slide all the way. Personally I think becoming an Apostle either directly or indirectly affected his mind, taking off his conscience or perhaps inflating his ego all the way to complete psychosis (heck, this ambiguousness ambiguity is another example of Miura's genius). He started as a flawed man and an archetype of an ambitious leader, that did evil for a reason. Then he became a pathetic and spiteful being, looking for his former glory and hating those around him because he couldn't get that glory back. As such he did questionable and desperate choices, because he was in such a state that he couldn't see anything but his pains. In a way the truth is that the whole Griffith arc palys like a tragedy, and from his point of view it seems he didn't want it all to happen that way and that he was truly destiny's toy. But after choosing to sacrifice his comrades, from a moral and storytelling-wise view, Griffith made his choice: his pride and ambitions over his friends. Raping Casca, probably to spite Guts, just shows that he had lost all and any sympathetic characteristics, and that he did so from his own choice. Thus we have the complete fall from a complex man to an unreemedable demon.

** To begin, we don't know much about what the God Hand actually DO. Our only perspective is essentially them acting as opposition to Guts. They haven't directly killed many people - barring the whole eclipse. Speaking of the Eclipse, it wasn't a malicious event. At least not on the part of the God Hand. The Apostles were essentially on monster holiday and were more than happy to massacre the Hawks. The BlueAndOrangeMorality of the God Hand made them unable or simply not wanting to intervene. They are all about Causality and feeding the natural spirit of the world back into itself. In an age where fear and war and death are prevalent, they too will be evil and rejoice in blood. Griffith is chosen because he embodies Humanities need for a savior, he hopes to fulfill that dream in life, but his ambition is dashed to the ground in the [[spoiler: torture chamber where he is mutilated.]] Once he [[spoiler: becomes Femto and proceeds to rape Casca, I think that the decision was out of his hands. Again it could have been just like the apostles his first instinct as a member of God Hand was to cause pain in the most 'Human' way he could think of]] At any rate the God hand are so far removed from the needs of the individual because they deal in global concepts and any action they take can be expected to have symbolic meaning.
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** To begin, we don't know much about what the God Hand actually DO. Our only perspective is essentially them acting as opposition to Guts. They haven't directly killed many people - barring the whole eclipse. Speaking of the Eclipse, it wasn't a malicious event. At least not on the part of the God Hand. The Apostles were essentially on monster holiday and were more than happy to massacre the Hawks. The BlueAndOrangeMorality of the God Hand made them unable or simply not wanting to intervene. They are all about Causality and feeding the natural spirit of the world back into itself. In an age where fear and war and death are prevalent, they too will be evil and rejoice in blood. Griffith is chosen because he embodies Humanities need for a savior, he hopes to fulfill that dream in life, but his ambition is dashed to the ground in the [[spoiler: torture the [[spoiler:torture chamber where he is mutilated.]] Once he [[spoiler: becomes Femto and proceeds to rape Casca, I think that the decision was out of his hands. Again it could have been just like the apostles his first instinct as a member of God Hand was to cause pain in the most 'Human' way he could think of]] At any rate the God hand are so far removed from the needs of the individual because they deal in global concepts and any action they take can be expected to have symbolic meaning.

** That and Griffith seems to have an special obsession about Guts since he actualy managed to hurt him in their first encounter, when Griffith was already considered invincible. Griffith probably held Guts in very high regard and he was probably the only person he considered "close to an equal", seeing as how he eventualy becomes his right hand man and personal confident. When Guts actualy managed to defeat him and leave, Griffith probably had an emotional breakdown because not only Guts went against his wishes but also actualy defeated him when he tried to stop Guts. The inability to make his will prevail coupled with losing Guts pushed him through the Despair Event Horizon. Hell, in the manga, Griffith keeps thinking about Guts EVERY DAY after it happens, even while having sex to princess Charlotte and enduring horrible torture and confinement. If anything this is a canon headscratcher, Casca says Griffith never acted that way towards anyone through all the years she's been in the band of the hawk. ** Griffith is certainly fixated on Guts for a pretty simple reason. Griffith was always so far above everyone, all of his life probably. Even before becoming Femto his level of competency and sheer luck bordered on the supernatural. The Band of the Hawk was essentially an average mercenary band who were carried by their Leader into success. Guts is the only other member of the Hawks to even approach Griffith's level of prowess. Not in terms of leadership or charisma but at least physically. Griffith has a keen eye for how to best use others and initially took an interest in Guts in order to use him towards his ambition. As time wore on, the two grew closer and Guts became ever more powerful in order to lead the Hawks to victory. This works out and the Band of the Hawk is made into an official army. However, Guts choese to leave him and the Hawks in order to find out his own dream and to take time to discover himself away from his comrades. What does this mean to Griffith at this point? A man, the only man, who he could begin to treat as an equal and to forge a relationship with leaves in search of his own dreams - essentially abandoning Griffith and his ambitions. In a way it was almost as though Guts had outgrown Griffith and was going on to better things, or at least how Griffith would have viewed it. That is why he confronts Guts and they fight one last time. It was an attempt to reassert himself as superior to his one-time subordinate. Guts wins and Griffith feels empty and alone because the only other [[TheUbermensch ‹bermensch]] around is gone. He feels so despondent that he throws his own dreams into the fire by sleeping with Charlotte in a single self-destructive act. It may have also been an impatient attempt to seal the deal for himself as future king. * Sooo.... What about that dragon, huh? The one Godo talked about but didn't want to talk about? He said that he made that sword so that it could slay a dragon - and apparently it worked. But then he went onto saying that nobody had the strength to wield it... So what I want to ask is: CoolOldGuy, are you nuts?! I mean, he said that the Dragon Slayer succeeded in killing a dragon, but how could it if he said that no one had the strength to wiel - hold on. Is he perhaps implicating that ''he'', Godo the Blacksmith, was once a dragon slaying, [[RetiredBadass crouching blacksmith, hidden badass]]??? Okay, farfetched idea. But still. Am I missing something here?
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** That and Griffith seems to have an special obsession about Guts since he actualy actually managed to hurt him in their first encounter, when Griffith was already considered invincible. Griffith probably held Guts in very high regard and he was probably the only person he considered "close to an equal", seeing as how he eventualy eventually becomes his right hand man and personal confident. When Guts actualy actually managed to defeat him and leave, Griffith probably had an emotional breakdown because not only Guts went against his wishes but also actualy actually defeated him when he tried to stop Guts. The inability to make his will prevail coupled with losing Guts pushed him through the Despair Event Horizon. Hell, in the manga, Griffith keeps thinking about Guts EVERY DAY after it happens, even while having sex to princess Charlotte and enduring horrible torture and confinement. If anything this is a canon headscratcher, Casca says Griffith never acted that way towards anyone through all the years she's been in the band of the hawk. ** Griffith is certainly fixated on Guts for a pretty simple reason. Griffith was always so far above everyone, all of his life probably. Even before becoming Femto his level of competency and sheer luck bordered on the supernatural. The Band of the Hawk was essentially an average mercenary band who were carried by their Leader into success. Guts is the only other member of the Hawks to even approach Griffith's level of prowess. Not in terms of leadership or charisma but at least physically. Griffith has a keen eye for how to best use others and initially took an interest in Guts in order to use him towards his ambition. As time wore on, the two grew closer and Guts became ever more powerful in order to lead the Hawks to victory. This works out and the Band of the Hawk is made into an official army. However, Guts choese chose to leave him and the Hawks in order to find out his own dream and to take time to discover himself away from his comrades. What does this mean to Griffith at this point? A man, the only man, who he could begin to treat as an equal and to forge a relationship with leaves in search of his own dreams - essentially abandoning Griffith and his ambitions. In a way it was almost as though Guts had outgrown Griffith and was going on to better things, or at least how Griffith would have viewed it. That is why he confronts Guts and they fight one last time. It was an attempt to reassert himself as superior to his one-time subordinate. Guts wins and Griffith feels empty and alone because the only other [[TheUbermensch ‹bermensch]] around is gone. He feels so despondent that he throws his own dreams into the fire by sleeping with Charlotte in a single self-destructive act. It may have also been an impatient attempt to seal the deal for himself as future king. * Sooo.... What about that dragon, huh? The one Godo talked about but didn't want to talk about? He said that he made that sword so that it could slay a dragon - and apparently it worked. But then he went onto saying that nobody had the strength to wield it... So what I want to ask is: CoolOldGuy, are you nuts?! I mean, he said that the Dragon Slayer succeeded in killing a dragon, but how could it if he said that no one had the strength to wiel wield - hold on. Is he perhaps implicating that ''he'', Godo the Blacksmith, was once a dragon slaying, [[RetiredBadass crouching blacksmith, hidden badass]]??? Okay, farfetched idea. But still. Am I missing something here?




*** If this [[https://mangabrog.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/berserk-artist-kentaro-miura-interview-i-actually-dont-think-i-could-let-such-a-long-grim-story-end-with-a-grim-ending/ recently translated article]] (originally from 2000) is of any indication, in the Black Swordsman Arc, Casca didn't ''even exist'' at that point.
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*** If this [[https://mangabrog.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/berserk-artist-kentaro-miura-interview-i-actually-dont-think-i-could-let-such-a-long-grim-story-end-with-a-grim-ending/ recently translated article]] (originally from 2000) is of any indication, in the Black Swordsman Arc, Casca didn't ''even exist'' [[WritingByTheSeatOfYourPants ''didn't even exist in Miura's mind'']] at that point.
25th Dec '15 7:26:32 PM TheBigBopper
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* ''"Morgal and Waratoria are small countries, but because they are on the Easternmost border of the Vatican order, they have strong warriors who've crossed blades with the Kushan's many times in the past."'' -->Serpico Okay, [[FanNickName Serp,]] that's cool and all but if they are on the Eastern border with the Kushan Empire why did Ganishka just go right past them and into Midland? If they are indeed small countries, skilled Vatican soldiers and sworn enemies of the Kushan it should have been a priority to deal with them. I suppose geography was never Berserk's strong point.
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* ''"Morgal and Waratoria are small countries, but because they are on the Easternmost border of the Vatican order, they have strong warriors who've crossed blades with the Kushan's many times in the past."'' -->Serpico "'' -Serpico ** Okay, [[FanNickName Serp,]] that's cool and all but if they are on the Eastern border with the Kushan Empire why did Ganishka just go right past them and into Midland? If they are indeed small countries, skilled Vatican soldiers and sworn enemies of the Kushan it should have been a priority to deal with them. I suppose geography was never Berserk's strong point.
16th Dec '15 1:20:08 PM Nikumubeki
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*** Thats actually an interesting point I wonder how much of the story changed as he got through the Golden Age arc. An how much may be changing now that the series has become somewhat less intense and considerably less explicit?
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*** Thats actually an interesting point I wonder how much of the story changed as he got through the Golden Age arc. An how much may be changing now that the series has become somewhat less intense and considerably less explicit?explicit? *** If this [[https://mangabrog.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/berserk-artist-kentaro-miura-interview-i-actually-dont-think-i-could-let-such-a-long-grim-story-end-with-a-grim-ending/ recently translated article]] (originally from 2000) is of any indication, in the Black Swordsman Arc, Casca didn't ''even exist'' at that point.
15th Nov '15 9:05:17 PM LeonEvelake
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* Did anyone else ever wonder if Casca was not originally intended to survive the Eclipse? A lot of people seem very upset at the treatment Casca received from Miura going from action oriented gal to so called "simple jack". But looking at the story and how it devolved It seems possible that Muira didn't originally intend for her to survive at all. If we look at the early parts of the story the Black Swordsman arc there is no mention of her that I recall. And Guts first appearance in volume one is having sex with the female apostle something very out of place in his later characterization. The only thing that would suggest her survival post eclipse would be the demon child's presence which could have had a different origin originally. On top of that in the pilot issue the back ground was fairly different involving the death of Guts mother. Granted pilots tend to change once an idea ends up a normal series but Miura had said he came up with a lot of the story before he worked on it. Making me wonder did he already have the basic setup of the Black Swordsman arc planned but not so much the Golden Age arc? And regardless of when theses details fell into place did he originally plan on Casca dying during or shortly after (given the demon child) the eclipse? ** I could definitely see this being the case. Maybe originally Guts wanted revenge for Casca's death specifically, as well as to the deaths of the Band of the Hawk in general. The idea to have her survive might be related to giving Guts a reason to snap back from his sociopathic persona from the Black Swordsman arc (which also doesn't seem to have been in the original plans, it seems Miura was pretty happy with a hero that doesn't really give a damn about innocents at first).
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* Did anyone else ever wonder if Casca was not originally intended to survive the Eclipse? A lot of people seem very upset at the treatment Casca received from Miura going from action oriented gal to so called "simple jack". But looking at the story and how it devolved developed It seems possible that Muira didn't originally intend for her to survive at all. If we look at the early parts of the story the Black Swordsman arc there is no mention of her that I recall. And Guts first appearance in volume one is having sex with the female apostle something very out of place in his later characterization. The only thing that would suggest her survival post eclipse would be the demon child's presence which could have had a different origin originally. On top of that in the pilot issue the back ground was fairly different involving the death of Guts mother. Granted pilots tend to change once an idea ends up a normal series but Miura had said he came up with a lot of the story before he worked on it. Making me wonder did he already have the basic setup of the Black Swordsman arc planned but not so much the Golden Age arc? And regardless of when theses details fell into place did he originally plan on Casca dying during or shortly after (given the demon child) the eclipse? ** I could definitely see this being the case. Maybe originally Guts wanted revenge for Casca's death specifically, as well as to the deaths of the Band of the Hawk in general. The idea to have her survive might be related to giving Guts a reason to snap back from his sociopathic persona from the Black Swordsman arc (which also doesn't seem to have been in the original plans, it seems Miura was pretty happy with a hero that doesn't really give a damn about innocents at first).first). *** Thats actually an interesting point I wonder how much of the story changed as he got through the Golden Age arc. An how much may be changing now that the series has become somewhat less intense and considerably less explicit?
6th Nov '15 10:40:07 AM hidrag
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**It is shown that he sleeps at dawn.

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** Unlikely to happen since the Behelits are given by the Idea of Evil. For instance, it's implied that Guts might have to do that choice later and Grif did it in the Eclipse but it wasn't at the same time.
20th Sep '15 3:15:27 PM bacon12
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* This might be due to the numerous translations that change the subtleties of conversations between translations, but how do we know that the Skull Knight's warning to Guts about what Caska may or may not want refers to her coming back from her insanity? For all we know, it might mean that she has no problem with regaining sanity, but might not want anything to do with Guts once she's back.
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