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* Czes's long-term goal was to preemptively kill all the other immortals, believing that otherwise they'd eventually kill him. In his mind, ditching the train would just have delayed the confrontation. He was on a train with at least one other immortal, multiple factions of terrorists/criminals, and a bunch of explosives. The opportunity was too good to pass up, especially considering that he wouldn't recognize them on sight in the future.

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* Czes's long-term goal was to preemptively kill all the other immortals, believing that otherwise they'd eventually kill him. In his mind, ditching the train would just have delayed the confrontation. He was on a train with at least one other immortal, multiple factions of terrorists/criminals, and a bunch of explosives. The opportunity was too good to pass up, especially considering that he wouldn't recognize them on sight in the future.future.
* He was trying to identify an unknown before it could turn into a SpannerInTheWorks. Czes was less terrified that an immortal was on board so much as he was terrified that there was an immortal ''stranger'' within earshot of him, which implied an entirely new set of immortals [[DidntSeeThatComing he would be completely unable to account for]]. Czes needed to devour them so he could learn where they got the elixir and (hopefully) the identity other immortals he was unaware of.
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* Chicago was a major rail hub. Technically, a Chicago-New York route wouldn't be transcontinental, but I'm pretty certain transcontinental routes went ''through'' Chicago and likely had a stop there. And yes, Isaac and Miria did exactly that.
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Rather than come up with some elaborate plot to bribe the terrorists to kill everyone else on the train just to find out who's immortal and eat them first, wouldn't it have been easier for Czes to just jump off the side (immortality FTW) and walk to civilization? A bit inconvenient but it has a 0% chance of encountering anything that can permanently kill him and he couldn't get lost, and being on a train with Ladd wouldn't be that much better in the best of circumstances.

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Rather than come up with some elaborate plot to bribe the terrorists to kill everyone else on the train just to find out who's immortal and eat them first, wouldn't it have been easier for Czes to just jump off the side (immortality FTW) and walk to civilization? A bit inconvenient but it has a 0% chance of encountering anything that can permanently kill him and he couldn't get lost, and being on a train with Ladd wouldn't be that much better in the best of circumstances.circumstances.
* Czes's long-term goal was to preemptively kill all the other immortals, believing that otherwise they'd eventually kill him. In his mind, ditching the train would just have delayed the confrontation. He was on a train with at least one other immortal, multiple factions of terrorists/criminals, and a bunch of explosives. The opportunity was too good to pass up, especially considering that he wouldn't recognize them on sight in the future.
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Rather than come up with some elaborate plot to bribe the terrorists to kill everyone else on the train just to find out who's immortal and eat them first, wouldn't it have been easier for Czes to just jump off the side (immortality FTW) and walk to civilization? A bit inconvenient but it has a 0% chance of encountering anything that can permanently kill him and he couldn't get lost, and being on a train with Ladd wouldn't be that much better in the best of circumstances.
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* There was a good deal of evidence that there was conflicting interests between Chane and the rest of the Lemures for a good time (Chane notes in her internal monologue that the Lemures always avoided her, and the other Lemures mention that Chane was the most [[IncrediblyLamePun vocal]] dissenter of the group and their means). Goose probably figured that her HighHeelFaceTurn was inevitable, but her established status as "Huey's most prized follower" made it difficult to do away with her and still keep his favor. The solution? MakeItLookLikeAnAccident during an upcoming risky hijacking operation -- which is what the two Lemures in episode 11 were about to initiate before Ladd eavesdropped and decided that they'd make excellent additions to Ladd's Dead Guy Puppet Theater.



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* There was a good deal of evidence that there was conflicting interests between Chane and the rest of the Lemures for a good time (Chane notes in her internal monologue that the Lemures always avoided her, and the other Lemures mention that Chane was the most [[IncrediblyLamePun vocal]] vocal dissenter of the group and their means). Goose probably figured that her HighHeelFaceTurn was inevitable, but her established status as "Huey's most prized follower" made it difficult to do away with her and still keep his favor. The solution? MakeItLookLikeAnAccident during an upcoming risky hijacking operation -- which is what the two Lemures in episode 11 were about to initiate before Ladd eavesdropped and decided that they'd make excellent additions to Ladd's Dead Guy Puppet Theater.


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** It is possible he created a Homunculus, transferred his memories, and let Czes eat the duplicate.
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* You never really know with Claire; the dude's a borderline RealityWarper, so he might have taken care of them before going after Czes.
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** It's in the WMG section already, but the happenings and facts in the books seem to lean towards the possibility that [[spoiler:he's an entity similar to Phil]].
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*** Active avoidance, mostly. The moment he starts recalling the evil memories, intentionally or inadvertently, he pretty much goes, "NOPE," and purposely derails his train of thought before he goes any further.
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**** Szilard's transferred info to Ennis this way, books and anime, so yeah.


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* The novels show that he did not kill her. I'm not sure the scene in question was anime only, but in any case, [[spoiler:he's escaped from jail and is now back with her.]]
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* Maybe I just missed something, or maybe it's something that's covered in the novels, but what on Earth possessed Lua to go clambering up onto the roof of the carriage after Ladd at the vital moment of his conflict with Claire? Did she have any reason at all to be there?
In the novels, Lua has something like a sixth sense. She glimpses the Rail Tracer on the train, and realizes that Ladd won't be able to beat him--so she goes up to warn Ladd to get away.

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* Maybe I just missed something, or maybe it's something that's covered in the novels, but what on Earth possessed Lua to go clambering up onto the roof of the carriage after Ladd at the vital moment of his conflict with Claire? Did she have any reason at all to be there?
* In the novels, Lua has something like a sixth sense. She glimpses the Rail Tracer on the train, and realizes that Ladd won't be able to beat him--so she goes up to warn Ladd to get away.
* I figured it was the Rail Tracer who brought her up there and just plopped her down. If I remember correctly, Ladd and Chane don't notice him until he comes up to Chane and grabs her knife. They don't notice Nice and Nick during their earlier fight either. So I don't see it as being too far-fetched that they wouldn't notice Lua this entire time.
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Nightmare Fuel cleanup; see thread for reference


* I don't know if this helps, but it's maybe AllThereInTheManual. When Szilard was creating Ennis in a culture dish of some type (NightmareFuel), he used his incomplete elixir instead of whatever you normally put in culture dishes. So maybe it's the equivalent of drinking the incomplete thing....

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* I don't know if this helps, but it's maybe AllThereInTheManual. When Szilard was creating Ennis in a culture dish of some type (NightmareFuel), type, he used his incomplete elixir instead of whatever you normally put in culture dishes. So maybe it's the equivalent of drinking the incomplete thing....
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What happened to the rest of Ladd mooks? Specifically the one who with Ladd after he blew Czes head off, and the other who spots Chane on the top of the train. Claire probably didn't killed them because he was too busy giving it to Czes.
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In the anime does Ladd kill Lua when they are found by the police by the rail track? He makes out he is going to; apologising that he hasn't done it before, offering to kill her right there, and then raising his bone of an arm as though preparing to stab her, but it never comfirms whether he did or not.

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da Namespace stuff+


* It's never established one way or the other. Most likely she's too much of a softie to just leave them down there, but since the point is rendered moot by someone else getting there first, we'll probably never know.

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* It's never established one way or the other. Most likely she's too much of a softie to just leave them down there, but since the point is rendered moot by someone else getting there first, we'll probably never know.
know.



* Probably for similar reasons to the decision to become human made by TheFiddlersGreen from Gaiman's TheSandman. One may '''know''' things, but may not have experienced them - s why not take the opportunity to explore more of the world, through a different perspective. Besides, the Corpus Hemeticum isn't automatically exempt from hyperbole.
** Hermeticism, and the broader Hellenistic esotericism it's a part of, explicitly says the distinction between ''noesis'' and ''dianoia'' (experience and knowledge in the sense you're using them) arises from the ignorance that Poemandres exists to dispel. He wouldn't himself be subject to it, anymore than a Bodhisattva can be greedy. But I think I just passed even ''my'' threshold for over-analyzing—it's probably just Art Major Theology (that should be a trope).

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* Probably for similar reasons to the decision to become human made by TheFiddlersGreen from Gaiman's TheSandman.ComicBook/TheSandman. One may '''know''' things, but may not have experienced them - s why not take the opportunity to explore more of the world, through a different perspective. Besides, the Corpus Hemeticum isn't automatically exempt from hyperbole.
** Hermeticism, and the broader Hellenistic esotericism it's a part of, explicitly says the distinction between ''noesis'' and ''dianoia'' (experience and knowledge in the sense you're using them) arises from the ignorance that Poemandres exists to dispel. He wouldn't himself be subject to it, anymore than a Bodhisattva can be greedy. But I think I just passed even ''my'' threshold for over-analyzing—it's probably just Art Major Theology (that should be a trope).



** Only things that cause cell damage trigger the healing factor, so, yes, it's possible to make non-injury related modifications. In the light novels, for an example, there's an immortal who became a drug addict and still hasn't recovered even decades after being admitted to the hospital; the changes in his brain must not have registered as damage.

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** Only things that cause cell damage trigger the healing factor, so, yes, it's possible to make non-injury related modifications. In the light novels, for an example, there's an immortal who became a drug addict and still hasn't recovered even decades after being admitted to the hospital; the changes in his brain must not have registered as damage.



* I don't know if this helps, but it's maybe {{All There in The Manual}}. When Szilard was creating Ennis in a culture dish of some type ({{nightmare fuel}}), he used his incomplete elixir instead of whatever you normally put in culture dishes. So maybe it's the equivalent of drinking the incomplete thing....

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* I don't know if this helps, but it's maybe {{All There in The Manual}}. AllThereInTheManual. When Szilard was creating Ennis in a culture dish of some type ({{nightmare fuel}}), (NightmareFuel), he used his incomplete elixir instead of whatever you normally put in culture dishes. So maybe it's the equivalent of drinking the incomplete thing....



** The homunculi in 2001 are [[spoiler:made as a part of Szilard's many researches into creating a homunculus that can absorb all knowledge in the world. Aside from Ennis, two types of homunculi were created - a male type and a female type. Unlike Ennis, they both aren't immortal because they aren't made of Szilard's immortal cells. The male type grows old like a normal human, the female type - that is, Fil - does not grow old, but they have a much shorter lifespan in exchange. That's why she constantly keeps 5 bodies. When one of them is close to dying, she'll go to the research center and get herself 'recycled'. Huey also has homunculi - but they're merely the opposite of incomplete immortals and not truly immortal. Can't age, but will die.]] Ennis just seems to be the exception, not the rule.

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** The homunculi in 2001 are [[spoiler:made as a part of Szilard's many researches into creating a homunculus that can absorb all knowledge in the world. Aside from Ennis, two types of homunculi were created - a male type and a female type. Unlike Ennis, they both aren't immortal because they aren't made of Szilard's immortal cells. The male type grows old like a normal human, the female type - that is, Fil - does not grow old, but they have a much shorter lifespan in exchange. That's why she constantly keeps 5 bodies. When one of them is close to dying, she'll go to the research center and get herself 'recycled'. Huey also has homunculi - but they're merely the opposite of incomplete immortals and not truly immortal. Can't age, but will die.]] Ennis just seems to be the exception, not the rule.
rule.



* I don't think he's ever shown after (in-world timeline) being shoved in the river, at least not in the anime. Maybe the novels would have something about that, I don't know.

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* I don't think he's ever shown after (in-world timeline) being shoved in the river, at least not in the anime. Maybe the novels would have something about that, I don't know.



Who the fuck is driving the train?
* Just some train engineer who doesn't have any direct connection to the carriages behind him, and thus is either ignorant of the bloodbath, or invested in getting to New York as soon as possible to get to the authorities.

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Who the fuck is driving the train?
train?
* Just some train engineer who doesn't have any direct connection to the carriages behind him, and thus is either ignorant of the bloodbath, or invested in getting to New York as soon as possible to get to the authorities.



Why is a transcontinental train going from Chicago to New York City? Unless I'm just stupid and simply don't understand geography, aren't Chicago and New York City too close to warrant a transcontinental train? Also, didn't Isaac and Miria start their share of the story in California? Did they take a train to Chicago, rob the Russo's, then get on another train to go to New York City?
* [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/US_Pacific_Railroads_1887.jpg This map]] suggests that there is (or was. It's a pretty old map), in fact, a transcontinental railroad that connected California, Illinois and New York. As for Isaac and Miria: going by Isaac's misinterpretation of a train robbery in ep. 2 (ride train to someplace, commit robbery, ride train somewhere else), that's ''exactly'' what they did.

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Why is a transcontinental train going from Chicago to New York City? Unless I'm just stupid and simply don't understand geography, aren't Chicago and New York City too close to warrant a transcontinental train? Also, didn't Isaac and Miria start their share of the story in California? Did they take a train to Chicago, rob the Russo's, then get on another train to go to New York City?
City?
* [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/US_Pacific_Railroads_1887.jpg This map]] suggests that there is (or was. It's a pretty old map), in fact, a transcontinental railroad that connected California, Illinois and New York. As for Isaac and Miria: going by Isaac's misinterpretation of a train robbery in ep. 2 (ride train to someplace, commit robbery, ride train somewhere else), that's ''exactly'' what they did.
did.



* Bingo. The storyline is heavily adapted from the novels, in which the {{MacGuffin}} is a parcel of drugs rather than Dallas, but in any case, it's made obvious by the ending that Don Bartolo wants Dallas for his immortality; the story he tells Gustavo is simply a lie to get Gustavo looking for Dallas without having to share the secret with him.

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* Bingo. The storyline is heavily adapted from the novels, in which the {{MacGuffin}} MacGuffin is a parcel of drugs rather than Dallas, but in any case, it's made obvious by the ending that Don Bartolo wants Dallas for his immortality; the story he tells Gustavo is simply a lie to get Gustavo looking for Dallas without having to share the secret with him.



How on EARTH did [[spoiler: Fermet]] come [[BackFromTheDead back]] from [[DeaderThanDead being FREAKIN' EATEN]]!?

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How on EARTH did [[spoiler: Fermet]] come [[BackFromTheDead back]] from [[DeaderThanDead being FREAKIN' EATEN]]!? EATEN]]!?



<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
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** Yeah they never noticed anything was wrong because Claire was keeping up the scheduled signals from the Conductor's compartment in the back. He didn't want to be delayed getting to New York. So that's why in the Anime we keep seeing the Rail Tracer back by the Conductor's compartment after people have just left it.
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* From the information I can gather, Bress Splot is a character from one of the DS game's joke endings, and is basically Jacuzzi's long-lost evil twin brother. It's probably safe to say he doesn't exist in the canon proper (unless Isaac secretly being Frankenstein's monster is ''also'' canon)
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* Firo's IdiotHero status is actually debated by the Gandor Brothers in one of the books. Luck considers him BookDumb and a little bit naive, but not stupid per se. Berga, on the other hand, thinks he's just dumb and Keith thinks he's TooDumbToLive.
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* Szilard doesn't just want those bottles back because he's impatient for the finished elixir - he wants them back because now the one thing that can get him killed is out on the street, and he has no idea who might have taken it. It's damage control.
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Does anyone know who this "Bress Splot" person I've heard about is? I've heard he comes from the DS game, but does anyone have details?
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** 1) The conductor with the mustache is [[spoiler:a member of the Lemures. His "story" is basically an explanation of the Lemures' plan to hold the train hostage and demand Huey Laforet's release from prison, with the added implication ("there's no way to be spared") that they're going to kill the passengers regardless]].
** 2) We have no way of knowing whether or not [[spoiler:Claire]] has even been contracted to kill an innocent during his career, but he doesn't kill any innocents during the course of the Flying Pussyfoot story (at least, not in the anime, and as far as I know not in the novel either). Everyone he kills is a member of the Lemures or a member of Ladd's gang - he kills them because they are either participating in the Lemures' plan (which is likely to end with the deaths of the hostages) or are otherwise harming or endangering the train's passengers ForTheEvulz. [[spoiler:Claire feels responsible for the train since he's a conductor, so he's personally offended by any attacks against it, and responds with lethal force. Note that he specifically saves Isaac and Miria because they've been "[[NiceToTheWaiter good customers]]"]].
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Maybe I just missed something, or maybe it's something that's covered in the novels, but what on Earth possessed Lua to go clambering up onto the roof of the carriage after Ladd at the vital moment of his conflict with Claire? Did she have any reason at all to be there?
* In the novels, Lua has something like a sixth sense. She glimpses the Rail Tracer on the train, and realizes that Ladd won't be able to beat him--so she goes up to warn Ladd to get away.
* I know there's probably an answer for these, but I've been confused and could use some clearing up:
** 1.) Why did the conductor with the mustache [[spoiler: hold Claire at gunpoint, and what was the meaning of that little speech he gave]]?
** 2.) How many innocent people did [[spoiler: Claire]] really kill? If he's an assassin, why kill any? And if he's just bloodthirsty, why was he so selective in who he killed?

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\nMaybe *Maybe I just missed something, or maybe it's something that's covered in the novels, but what on Earth possessed Lua to go clambering up onto the roof of the carriage after Ladd at the vital moment of his conflict with Claire? Did she have any reason at all to be there?
* In the novels, Lua has something like a sixth sense. She glimpses the Rail Tracer on the train, and realizes that Ladd won't be able to beat him--so she goes up to warn Ladd to get away.
* I know there's probably an answer for these, but I've been confused and could use some clearing up:
** 1.*1.) Why did the conductor with the mustache [[spoiler: hold Claire at gunpoint, and what was the meaning of that little speech he gave]]?
** 2.*2.) How many innocent people did [[spoiler: Claire]] really kill? If he's an assassin, why kill any? And if he's just bloodthirsty, why was he so selective in who he killed?
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* I know there's probably an answer for these, but I've been confused and could use some clearing up:
**1.) Why did the conductor with the mustache [[spoiler: hold Claire at gunpoint, and what was the meaning of that little speech he gave]]?
**2.) How many innocent people did [[spoiler: Claire]] really kill? If he's an assassin, why kill any? And if he's just bloodthirsty, why was he so selective in who he killed?
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*** Maybe Fermet indeed did fake getting "eaten". Czes was blind at that moment if this troper recalls correctly, and with the complex rules governing the immortals, it's not entirely impossible to think that Fermet could have figured out a way to transfer a fake copy of his memories into Czes.
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*** But Czes had Fermet's memories, meaning that he ''had'' to have eaten him. And while I would understand Fermet being able to find a way out, I don't see how he couldn't do it without Czes finding out. Czeslaw would probably have noticed a familiar, possibly naked lunatic emerging from his right hand. He might have done it while Czes was sleeping, but the boy would still have probably felt ''something''.
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* In the novels, Lua has something like a sixth sense. She glimpses the Rail Tracer on the train, and realizes that Ladd won't be able to beat him--so she goes up to warn Ladd to get away.
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Maybe I just missed something, or maybe it's something that's covered in the novels, but what on Earth possessed Lua to go clambering up onto the roof of the carriage after Ladd at the vital moment of his conflict with Claire? Did she have any reason at all to be there?
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** I think the question really is: Did he ever got eaten? Only Czes says for sure that he did eat Fermet, but take account that the boy was slipping into insanity and terror at that point; maybe Czes thought of some way to escape, or worse, Fermet ''let him escape''. It was part of his Masterplan, really, if Czes really had eaten such a sick bastard like Fermed, don't you think Czes would feel new emotions, line of thought flowing through his mind? Like when Firo ate Szilard, Firo was slightly scared of the old man's thoughts in his mind; if Czes really did something of that effect, he surely would start thinking something different of his usual self.

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