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Look, if it was portrayed in the same fashion the other way around (the perceived and assumed superiority of the Na'vi notwithstanding), it would be pretty clear that we were acting like xenophobic, racist idiots. It would resemble "The Day The Earth Stood Still" more than anything else.
In the end, the Na'vi act in a way similar to, ironically enough, European imperialists by refusing to consider other cultures worthy of any respect or dignity.
In the end, the Na'vi act in a way similar to, ironically enough, European imperialists by refusing to consider other cultures worthy of any respect or dignity.
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*** Look, if it was portrayed in the same fashion the other way around (the perceived and assumed superiority of the Na'vi notwithstanding), it would be pretty clear that we were acting like xenophobic, racist idiots. It would resemble "The Day The Earth Stood Still" more than anything else.
*** In the end, the Na'vi act in a way similar to, ironically enough, European imperialists by refusing to consider other cultures worthy of any respect or dignity.
*** In the end, the Na'vi act in a way similar to, ironically enough, European imperialists by refusing to consider other cultures worthy of any respect or dignity.
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* Wait, wait, wait. Lets ignore the whole business of trading for a minute and consider the situation.
** First, the humans arrive looking for Unobtanium, and discover the Na'vi. The RDA tries to negotiate, and the Na'vi refuse. Furthermore, it is implied that the Na'vi are running raids on humans without provocation and without attempts at negotiation.
** As time passes, the Na'vi still launch attacks on humans without ever bothering to figure out what the are doing. The RDA develops avatars.
** Jake is sent in, but doesn't bother with much "diplomacy", despite that being one of the prime reasons he went sent in the first place. The Na'vi basically say "No matter what you have to offer, we won't leave our home", which is understandable, but the negotiations effectively end there.
** The military forces, having spent ages losing troops to raids, give up and attack. Now, the military is at fault for attacking so early, but they were justified in a sense.
* So the Na'vi were acting outrageously xenophobic, and exhibited no curiosity as to the intentions of strange aliens with giant machines landing on their planet, attacking them rather than negotiating, and refusing to consider things from the humans' point of view.
** On the topic of if it was aliens landing on Earth, I have to say the comparisons aren't being made correctly. If the movie was inverted in some way, it would be like this: a technologically advanced alien species lands in an uninhabited area and sets up a camp there. They don't vapourize New York, they don't kill everyone they see, they exhibit little hostility besides starting a mining operation (or cutting down the rainforest, or whatever you want as an analogy). Rather than attempting to open contact and figure out what these aliens want, we send Marines out to ambush and murder them. After several years of killing these aliens without trying to figure out who they are, they create human-alien hybrids to attempt to negotiate. They say they require some magical resource located in an important area on Earth (say, under some of our major cities) to power their futuristic technology. They are very willing to negotiate and work with us to figure out a way to extract the resources with minimal damage, not to mention that they will give us some form of benefit (say, futuristic alien technology) in return. We then proceed to refuse without considering the matter, and follow it up by belittling their culture without bothering to understand it, or the circumstances that led to its creation (like how the Na'vi don't bother to consider that humans don't have the benefit of being a part of a giant biological computer, and just assume that humans are evil because they are different). After more and more skirmishes, the aliens get tired of our refusal to work things out and flatten a sizable city (say, Chicago). A crazy alien in charge of their military is then able to persuade the rest of them to go after a very important city (Tokyo, NYC, whatever) precisely BECAUSE we are refusing to negotiate. After we somehow defeat the aliens and drive them off of Earth, we celebrate even though we barely bothered to figure out their motivations, and we assume that beating one alien force is the same as driving them out forever.
Look, if it was portrayed in the same fashion the other way around (the perceived and assumed superiority of the Na'vi notwithstanding), it would be pretty clear that we were acting like xenophobic, racist idiots. It would resemble "The Day The Earth Stood Still" more than anything else.
In the end, the Na'vi act in a way similar to, ironically enough, European imperialists by refusing to consider other cultures worthy of any respect or dignity.
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* Because of the neural network. All life on Pandora is conncted and can access shared memories. If humans had always had the internet all throughout the development of civilisatin, then they would all most likely speak the same language the world over too.
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* Because of the neural network. All life on Pandora is conncted connected and can access shared memories. If humans had always had the internet all throughout the development of civilisatin, civilisation, then they would all most likely speak the same language the world over too.
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* Because of the neural network. All life on Pandora is conncted and can access shared memories. If humans had always had the internet all throughout the development of civilisatin, then they would all most likely speak the same language the world over too.
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** Wow you have just insulted every parent and pet owner simultaneously. The big thing is there was a deleted sex scene between the two lovebirds and they combined head nerve things during the sex. This was a deleted scene though so they probably knew it was a bad idea and gave horrific implications.
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** No. What the movie is saying is, "The Na'vi all speak the same language." Probably ''because'' Eywa is a tangible being that directly influences their lives. I don't recall anyone in the movie saying that all aboriginal people everywhere are exactly the same.\\\
"Based on," does '''''not''''' mean "we really do think that all of [insert people] act exactly like this." I'm honestly getting tired of this formula of, "Movie simplified this detail, therefore movie says that ALL PEOPLE LIKE THIS ARE STUPID/BAD/THE SAME SO IT SUCKS."\\\
I mean, good fucking Christ people. I know it's a radical thought but sometimes, ''sometimes'', a movie ''isn't'' meant to be taken as an AuthorTract. I know, hard to believe! But trust me, sometimes, the writers '''aren't evil racist bigots!'''
"Based on," does '''''not''''' mean "we really do think that all of [insert people] act exactly like this." I'm honestly getting tired of this formula of, "Movie simplified this detail, therefore movie says that ALL PEOPLE LIKE THIS ARE STUPID/BAD/THE SAME SO IT SUCKS."\\\
I mean, good fucking Christ people. I know it's a radical thought but sometimes, ''sometimes'', a movie ''isn't'' meant to be taken as an AuthorTract. I know, hard to believe! But trust me, sometimes, the writers '''aren't evil racist bigots!'''
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* While the Na'vi language is unique and a neat attribute to add in the movie, it appears to be the same language all over the planet. In a montage, Jake and Neytiri travel to various tribes and they don't seem to change their language or even dialect. If the Na'vi are supposed to be based on Native Americans, then the writers should know that there can be over a dozen different languages depending on the tribe existing in an area no bigger than New England. That goes for culture and religion too. In the movie, the only difference between the tribes is their main mode of transportation. They all worship Eywa and they all speak Na'vi. What the movie is saying is that all aboriginal peoples are the same. I chalk it up to [[Unfortunate Implications.]]
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* While the Na'vi language is unique and a neat attribute to add in the movie, it appears to be the same language all over the planet. In a montage, Jake and Neytiri travel to various tribes and they don't seem to change their language or even dialect. If the Na'vi are supposed to be based on Native Americans, then the writers should know that there can be over a dozen different languages depending on the tribe existing in an area no bigger than New England. That goes for culture and religion too. In the movie, the only difference between the tribes is their main mode of transportation. They all worship Eywa and they all speak Na'vi. What the movie is saying is that all aboriginal peoples are the same. I chalk it up to [[Unfortunate Implications.]]
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[[Na'vi Language]]
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[[Na'vi Language]]
* While the Na'vi language is unique and a neat attribute to add in the movie, it appears to be the same language all over the planet. In a montage, Jake and Neytiri travel to various tribes and they don't seem to change their language or even dialect. If the Na'vi are supposed to be based on Native Americans, then the writers should know that there can be over a dozen different languages depending on the tribe existing in an area no bigger than New England. That goes for culture and religion too. In the movie, the only difference between the tribes is their main mode of transportation. They all worship Eywa and they all speak Na'vi. What the movie is saying is that all aboriginal peoples are the same. I chalk it up to [[Unfortunate Implications.]]
[[/folder]]
* While the Na'vi language is unique and a neat attribute to add in the movie, it appears to be the same language all over the planet. In a montage, Jake and Neytiri travel to various tribes and they don't seem to change their language or even dialect. If the Na'vi are supposed to be based on Native Americans, then the writers should know that there can be over a dozen different languages depending on the tribe existing in an area no bigger than New England. That goes for culture and religion too. In the movie, the only difference between the tribes is their main mode of transportation. They all worship Eywa and they all speak Na'vi. What the movie is saying is that all aboriginal peoples are the same. I chalk it up to [[Unfortunate Implications.]]
[[/folder]]
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*** Right answer, wrong reason. Humans are weak per unit body mass, even as megafauna goes -- your average chimpanzee is much stronger than your average human, despite being lighter -- but the feats of proportional strength that insects get up to are entirely due to inverse-square proportionality issues. Scale an ant up to human size and it wouldn't be able to do anything very impressive, even ignoring the scale issues regarding respiration and motor control.
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** The Na'vi are sentient beings. They would understand the dangers of both stretching themselves too thin and placing too much of a burden on their ability to provide.
Several problems with those:
* Food: Perhaps, but with a population of perhaps a few million, it is a sustainable number, unlike current human populations.
* Disease: No, the Na'vi are not overpopulated enough to suffer pandemics, and weak individuals are less likely to survive anyway. Why do people assume 'medicine' means 'drugs' as opposed to 'medical technology'? It is stated that the Na'vi rarely if ever are actually sick and this is indeed a point of interest to the RDA's researchers - 'medicine' was more from the perspective of studying ''them''.
* Roads is the most facepalm-inducing yet. Seen their ikran recently? Fast, easy, sustainable, ''fun'' transport. Even pa'li (or indeed, the Na'vi themselves) can travel through the forest unmatched by any human assisted or unassisted.
Several problems with those:
* Food: Perhaps, but with a population of perhaps a few million, it is a sustainable number, unlike current human populations.
* Disease: No, the Na'vi are not overpopulated enough to suffer pandemics, and weak individuals are less likely to survive anyway. Why do people assume 'medicine' means 'drugs' as opposed to 'medical technology'? It is stated that the Na'vi rarely if ever are actually sick and this is indeed a point of interest to the RDA's researchers - 'medicine' was more from the perspective of studying ''them''.
* Roads is the most facepalm-inducing yet. Seen their ikran recently? Fast, easy, sustainable, ''fun'' transport. Even pa'li (or indeed, the Na'vi themselves) can travel through the forest unmatched by any human assisted or unassisted.
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** The Na'vi are sentient beings. They would understand the dangers of both stretching themselves too thin and placing too much of a burden on their ability to provide.
provide.\\
\\
Several problems withthose:
* Food:those:\\
\\
-Food: Perhaps, but with a population of perhaps a few million, it is a sustainable number, unlike current humanpopulations.
* Disease:populations.\\
\\
-Disease: No, the Na'vi are not overpopulated enough to suffer pandemics, and weak individuals are less likely to survive anyway. Why do people assume 'medicine' means 'drugs' as opposed to 'medical technology'? It is stated that the Na'vi rarely if ever are actually sick and this is indeed a point of interest to the RDA's researchers - 'medicine' was more from the perspective of studying''them''.
* Roads''them''.\\
\\
-Roads is the most facepalm-inducing yet. Seen their ikran recently? Fast, easy, sustainable, ''fun'' transport. Even pa'li (or indeed, the Na'vi themselves) can travel through the forest unmatched by any human assisted or unassisted.
\\
Several problems with
* Food:
\\
-Food: Perhaps, but with a population of perhaps a few million, it is a sustainable number, unlike current human
* Disease:
\\
-Disease: No, the Na'vi are not overpopulated enough to suffer pandemics, and weak individuals are less likely to survive anyway. Why do people assume 'medicine' means 'drugs' as opposed to 'medical technology'? It is stated that the Na'vi rarely if ever are actually sick and this is indeed a point of interest to the RDA's researchers - 'medicine' was more from the perspective of studying
* Roads
\\
-Roads is the most facepalm-inducing yet. Seen their ikran recently? Fast, easy, sustainable, ''fun'' transport. Even pa'li (or indeed, the Na'vi themselves) can travel through the forest unmatched by any human assisted or unassisted.
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* Disease: No, the Na'vi are not overpopulated enough to suffer pandemics, and weak individualsare less likely to survive anyway. Why do people assume 'medicine' means 'drugs' as opposed to 'medical technology'? It is stated that the Na'vi rarely if ever are actually sick and this is indeed a point of interest to the RDA's researchers - 'medicine' was more from the perspective of studying ''them''.
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* Disease: No, the Na'vi are not overpopulated enough to suffer pandemics, and weak individualsare individuals are less likely to survive anyway. Why do people assume 'medicine' means 'drugs' as opposed to 'medical technology'? It is stated that the Na'vi rarely if ever are actually sick and this is indeed a point of interest to the RDA's researchers - 'medicine' was more from the perspective of studying ''them''.
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**** Neytiri would disagree. Just watch her again, even when escaping from Toruk, she can laugh :)
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*** They don't have writing. They have not only the network, but there are many songs which contain stories of their history and culture... You know, like humans used to do?
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*** YouFailBiologyForever. Lower gravity means LESS energy to support a larger mass.
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* This again? It's a connection of nervous systems that allows shared thoughts and senses. I completely fail to see how that has '''ANYTHING''' to do with sex, especially since Na'vi reproduce the 'traditional' way, albeit with tsaheylu to enhance the experience.
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**** Not to mention that Pandora is ''not''' pure green and that greens and blues actually blend relatively well. Either way, the intention WAS for the plants to be more of a mixture of blue and green, but it reduced familiarity for humans and would have lead to 'lol not real' from the HateDumb. As for skin colour, they have red blood but a blue pigment in their skin in the same way that humans have varying shades of pink or brown with dark red blood (yes, it is '''dark''' red when not exposed to air).
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* The Na'vi were intelligent enough to try a new approach. Instead of learning about the humans, they did what SHOULD have been done from day one: teach the humans about ''them''. It worked.
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** They learned a lot about the humans, they just didn't need to any more when the marines statrted trying to kill them.
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** Exactly. considering the situation, the Na'vi showed a '''lot''' of restraint. Far more than the majority of humans would do in an equivalent situation.
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**** You weren't watching properly then. Jake and Norm have machine guns and Jake has some grenades and that is it.
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*** For protection of the queue because it is extremely important to them.
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** Pointed ears, I assume. I don't get it either (and definitely, aliens != furries). The Na'vi are LESS similar to Earth animals than humans.
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** Or, in the script, it's shown that Jake introduced that to Neytiri. Look at the scene at the tree of souls before the battle when they press their faces against each other's, THAT is a less human interaction.
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*** Of course, nobody can state WHAT prompted the intervention, whether or not it would have occurred ''without'' that scene.
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** Air density does make flight easier since there is more lift, although it requires stronger muscles to achieve higher speeds. For the Na'vi themselves, people ignore the fact that some species ARE proportionally stronger than others. On Earth, for a human to match an ant's proportional strength, they would need to lift over 5 times their body weight.
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* All this is irrelevant as the Na'vi '''HAVE''' alcohol (stronger than any human drinks...), as well as [[http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Fiddlehead certain plants which can get them high]]. Either way, the Na'vi are not as stupid as most people ''would like to'' think.
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** The Na'vi are sentient beings. They would understand the dangers of both stretching themselves too thin and placing too much of a burden on their ability to provide.
Several problems with those:
* Food: Perhaps, but with a population of perhaps a few million, it is a sustainable number, unlike current human populations.
* Disease: No, the Na'vi are not overpopulated enough to suffer pandemics, and weak individualsare less likely to survive anyway. Why do people assume 'medicine' means 'drugs' as opposed to 'medical technology'? It is stated that the Na'vi rarely if ever are actually sick and this is indeed a point of interest to the RDA's researchers - 'medicine' was more from the perspective of studying ''them''.
* Roads is the most facepalm-inducing yet. Seen their ikran recently? Fast, easy, sustainable, ''fun'' transport. Even pa'li (or indeed, the Na'vi themselves) can travel through the forest unmatched by any human assisted or unassisted.
Several problems with those:
* Food: Perhaps, but with a population of perhaps a few million, it is a sustainable number, unlike current human populations.
* Disease: No, the Na'vi are not overpopulated enough to suffer pandemics, and weak individualsare less likely to survive anyway. Why do people assume 'medicine' means 'drugs' as opposed to 'medical technology'? It is stated that the Na'vi rarely if ever are actually sick and this is indeed a point of interest to the RDA's researchers - 'medicine' was more from the perspective of studying ''them''.
* Roads is the most facepalm-inducing yet. Seen their ikran recently? Fast, easy, sustainable, ''fun'' transport. Even pa'li (or indeed, the Na'vi themselves) can travel through the forest unmatched by any human assisted or unassisted.
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* As it is, the Na'vi make an effort considering that they don't even have a 'J' sound in their own language (the closest is 'ts'), and for the lack of distinction between his name and surname, Na'vi family names are prefixed with 'te-, and Neytiri, who is easily exposed to the most human culture through teaching Jake, refers to him as Jake.
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* An off hand remark in an interview (initial designs for the Na'vi were more reptilian), also contradicted by the [[spoiler: deleted scene at the end of the film where Neytiri is pregnant]], by their mammalian reproduction, and even by the presence of a navel. Or if you ''really'' wanted to try to reconcile the two, they could be [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovoviviparity Ovoviviparous]] (giving birth to live offspring and with internal fertilisation, but with no placenta).
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******* It's not like viperwolves are sentient. Anyway, Neytiri states that there have only been five Toruk Makto since the time of the first songs, which definitely implies a generations-old tradition, not to mention that Na'vi society is older than human society.
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* They were sufficiently different, particularly in the way they moved (Jake excepted, obviously). [[HateDumb Particularly since the acting is FAR better than any other non-human species.]]
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*** The established theory is that this is just a different style and the queue itself is only contained within one.
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*** That was a throwaway joke. Na'vi have genitals similar to humans, tsaheylu is not reproduction, but a connection of nervous systems with the ability to share thoughts, senses and memories, kind of like MindlinkMates. It's all in intention, if two Na'vi did make tsaheylu without feelings for each other than platonic thoughts would be all they would experience from the others.
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** Not sex. Sex works similarly to humans. On the other hand, it does allow for excellent opportunities such as being able to feel everything your lover does simultaneously...
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** This is stated as much in the collector's edition.
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*** One chromosome?
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**** TruthInTelevision then as humans have an ''extreme'' amount of sexual dimorphism compared to many other animals.
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** Because the Na'vi are better adapted to their environment without having to change it. They have never CAUSED problems such as a shortage of food, and as for injuries, you can see from minor injuries Jake receives over the course of the film such as the cut on his arm or the minor injuries he and Neytiri receive during the battle that their healing rate is as good as if not better than some of the fastest humans.
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**** You're discussing it like it is a conscious act. It's not mind control, people.
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*** Made even more obvious in the collector's edition. The background material has numerous references to the Na'vi eating. The truth is that showing characters sitting there eating is not very efficient for time, the same reason characters are not shown using the toilet or looking for things when going out.
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* Again, lack of understanding of background. It states it can take ''years'' for a Na'vi to find a mate with mutual feelings. Just because Jake chose someone doesn't mean that, for example, Peyral or Ninat couldn't choose someone... Background states that when two Na'vi first make tsaheylu, if the experience was not positive then they will not remain mated. One theory states that Neytiri ''wanted'' Jake to mate with her which was why she took him to the tree of voices that night and brought the subject up then.
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**Yes, but maintaining the balance doesn't mean the Na'vi magically keep a low birth rate with all the massive amounts of game they're getting. Look at any species that does well in an environment- they have highs and lows in population numbers that on average balance out. However, they still have periods where there are massive die off to compensate for increasing highs. That's how 'balancing nature' works in real life. Their environment is still hostile to them, even with a relatively benevolent goddess (who really didn't do that much to stop the humans when they arrived). We should be seeing that balance go both ways, not just them living in a happy, hippy comune or something- so diseases are should be fairly probable, or at least a high mortality rate. Also, that doesn't explain why the RDA focused on medical issues in the first place- they could have done other PR- but focused on medicine and education. That does imply that Na'vi biology has been studied enough by people to have an idea of some of the issues they face, and that those problems are probably pretty severe.
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** Starvation: they're a hunting society. Here on earth, most hunter gatherers earn a lot less calories on average by hunting- they might score a bonanza once in a while, but they're also a lot more likely to lose than they are to consistenly keep getting big game. This is one of the reasons why farming societies tend to be much larger and more stable- their food supply isn't nearly as risky as Dad having an off day out in the bush. Since Eywa isn't that keen on protecting them from losses, and hunting is implied to be pretty risky and not that rewarding (their tribes are fairly small), we should see more evidence of this. Humans can make Avatars that are able to survive in that climate- how hard is it for us to help augment their food supplies during a crisis in exchange for Unobtanium trade? Belief generally ends up losing out during a massive food crisis.
** Medicine and disease: there's clearly a need for medicine, since RDA wouldn't have bothered with that campaign if everything was as rosy in Na'vi society as it's made out to be. They live in a hunter-gatherer society and probably trade with other tribes- diseases are still going to be pretty likely. Infant mortality is probably pretty high too. If push comes to shove, why are the Na'vi so reluctant to trade for medicine, or even accept medical help? They've got limits with their own healing, and Eywa doesn't seem to be that caring, if she got 'keeping the balance' to consider.
Above all, living in a massive rainforest is not necessarily going to be nice. I mean, look at jared Diamond's work on hunting societies in New Guinea and other places. It's not the environmental fantasy everyone thinks it is, and it's rough adapting to it. The Na'vi shouldn't have been as reluctant to accept some of the aid that the RDA tried to use to strike up friendly relations. Why are they so reluctant to accept medicine that we give them?
** Medicine and disease: there's clearly a need for medicine, since RDA wouldn't have bothered with that campaign if everything was as rosy in Na'vi society as it's made out to be. They live in a hunter-gatherer society and probably trade with other tribes- diseases are still going to be pretty likely. Infant mortality is probably pretty high too. If push comes to shove, why are the Na'vi so reluctant to trade for medicine, or even accept medical help? They've got limits with their own healing, and Eywa doesn't seem to be that caring, if she got 'keeping the balance' to consider.
Above all, living in a massive rainforest is not necessarily going to be nice. I mean, look at jared Diamond's work on hunting societies in New Guinea and other places. It's not the environmental fantasy everyone thinks it is, and it's rough adapting to it. The Na'vi shouldn't have been as reluctant to accept some of the aid that the RDA tried to use to strike up friendly relations. Why are they so reluctant to accept medicine that we give them?
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\\
Medicine and disease: there's clearly a need for medicine, since RDA wouldn't have bothered with that campaign if everything was as rosy in Na'vi society as it's made out to be. They live in a hunter-gatherer society and probably trade with other tribes- diseases are still going to be pretty likely. Infant mortality is probably pretty high too. If push comes to shove, why are the Na'vi so reluctant to trade for medicine, or even accept medical help? They've got limits with their own healing, and Eywa doesn't seem to be that caring, if she got 'keeping the balance' to consider.
* As far as canonical material states, the three animals Na'vi primarily hunt are hexapede, tapirus, and sturmbeest. The former 2 have been described as absurdly easy prey for every other predator on the planet and the only thing keeping the species alive is a high birth rate. In some scenes, you can actually ''see'' tapirii wandering into Hometree, just waiting to be snatched up and turned into tonight's dinner. I seriously doubt the Na'vi are in any danger of a food crisis.\\
\\
The 'campaign' was born out of PR; everything would have seriously been easier for the RDA if there weren't any masses of protesters back on Earth complaining about every single morally reprehensible action they do six light-years away. Despite the huge amounts of money the RDA's PR department likely had to throw around, they still did a half-assed job (evidenced by Selfridge's "''roads''" comment and how moronic the Avatar program is in hindsight - you want uncanny-valley human/alien hybrids talking to you?). That being said, there's no real reason why the Na'vi ''must'' have medical problems; Eywa's probably close enough to omniscience that she can 'keep the balance' and 'provide for the Na'vi' at the same time, and the Na'vi probably has several millenia of adapting under their belt already. After all, 'Keeping the balance' involves Eywa maintaining the appropriate population of Na'vi on the moon anyways.
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[[folder: We do have stuff we can offer them- not just drugs/alcohol]]
This was the biggest thing that got on my nerves. Towards the beginning of the movie, it's mentioned that the RDA provided education, medicine, and language classes to the Na'vi, who told them to eff off after a while. Here's the thing: the Na'vi live in a hunter-gatherer society. Even with their freaky goddess, they're still going to run into the same problems that any hunter-gatherer society runs into here on Earth. Namely, diseases, starvation, and mutilation are going to be fairly common. Having a goddess 'keeping the balance' isn't going to spare them from any of that, since those are natural population checks that kick in when species get too large for their environment. Some things to consider are:
**Starvation: they're a hunting society. Here on earth, most hunter gatherers earn a lot less calories on average by hunting- they might score a bonanza once in a while, but they're also a lot more likely to lose than they are to consistenly keep getting big game. This is one of the reasons why farming societies tend to be much larger and more stable- their food supply isn't nearly as risky as Dad having an off day out in the bush. Since Eywa isn't that keen on protecting them from losses, and hunting is implied to be pretty risky and not that rewarding (their tribes are fairly small), we should see more evidence of this. Humans can make Avatars that are able to survive in that climate- how hard is it for us to help augment their food supplies during a crisis in exchange for Unobtanium trade? Belief generally ends up losing out during a massive food crisis.
**Medicine and disease: there's clearly a need for medicine, since RDA wouldn't have bothered with that campaign if everything was as rosy in Na'vi society as it's made out to be. They live in a hunter-gatherer society and probably trade with other tribes- diseases are still going to be pretty likely. Infant mortality is probably pretty high too. If push comes to shove, why are the Na'vi so reluctant to trade for medicine, or even accept medical help? They've got limits with their own healing, and Eywa doesn't seem to be that caring, if she got 'keeping the balance' to consider.
Above all, living in a massive rainforest is not necessarily going to be nice. I mean, look at jared Diamond's work on hunting societies in New Guinea and other places. It's not the environmental fantasy everyone thinks it is, and it's rough adapting to it. The Na'vi shouldn't have been as reluctant to accept some of the aid that the RDA tried to use to strike up friendly relations. Why are they so reluctant to accept medicine that we give them?
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This was the biggest thing that got on my nerves. Towards the beginning of the movie, it's mentioned that the RDA provided education, medicine, and language classes to the Na'vi, who told them to eff off after a while. Here's the thing: the Na'vi live in a hunter-gatherer society. Even with their freaky goddess, they're still going to run into the same problems that any hunter-gatherer society runs into here on Earth. Namely, diseases, starvation, and mutilation are going to be fairly common. Having a goddess 'keeping the balance' isn't going to spare them from any of that, since those are natural population checks that kick in when species get too large for their environment. Some things to consider are:
**Starvation: they're a hunting society. Here on earth, most hunter gatherers earn a lot less calories on average by hunting- they might score a bonanza once in a while, but they're also a lot more likely to lose than they are to consistenly keep getting big game. This is one of the reasons why farming societies tend to be much larger and more stable- their food supply isn't nearly as risky as Dad having an off day out in the bush. Since Eywa isn't that keen on protecting them from losses, and hunting is implied to be pretty risky and not that rewarding (their tribes are fairly small), we should see more evidence of this. Humans can make Avatars that are able to survive in that climate- how hard is it for us to help augment their food supplies during a crisis in exchange for Unobtanium trade? Belief generally ends up losing out during a massive food crisis.
**Medicine and disease: there's clearly a need for medicine, since RDA wouldn't have bothered with that campaign if everything was as rosy in Na'vi society as it's made out to be. They live in a hunter-gatherer society and probably trade with other tribes- diseases are still going to be pretty likely. Infant mortality is probably pretty high too. If push comes to shove, why are the Na'vi so reluctant to trade for medicine, or even accept medical help? They've got limits with their own healing, and Eywa doesn't seem to be that caring, if she got 'keeping the balance' to consider.
Above all, living in a massive rainforest is not necessarily going to be nice. I mean, look at jared Diamond's work on hunting societies in New Guinea and other places. It's not the environmental fantasy everyone thinks it is, and it's rough adapting to it. The Na'vi shouldn't have been as reluctant to accept some of the aid that the RDA tried to use to strike up friendly relations. Why are they so reluctant to accept medicine that we give them?
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**Except not all Irish or Chinese have similar features. Less than 20% of Irish are red-headed and there's considerable variation among us, since we've been hit so often by the Vikings and other conquering groups. Same thing with the Chinese- they only look the same to Westerners because the Westerners in question didn't grow up in a society like that. Added to that, even in groups that are fairly isolated, there's still going to be considerable genetic variation. You aren't going to look that much like your neighbor Bob, even if he is a cousin and part of the same ethnic group. The bigger question is how, in a tribal environment that's fairly hostile, do the Na'vi manage to not end up with the considerably shorter lifespans, greater risk of injury, multilation and starvation that similar hunter-gatherer groups on Earth have to face? Hunter gatherers don't rake in the same average calories as farmers do, and that seriously hurts their chances in bad years.
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** It hast probably more to do with the anime, not the furry fandom. Kemonomimi, or rather their subtype Nekomimi (aka catgirls), are just that: Humans with cat-ears and tails. So, what do you call a species consisting of catgirls of both genders? (By the way, thanks for that "Eww, people will think I was a furry", really nice of you. Not starting a war or anything, just putting it out there because it bugs me)
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** Probably shouldn't have said "easier" then. Flying animals don't need as much strength for flight, but top speeds and terminal velocity will be lower. And it would help if you could back up your claim with some conclusive knowledge of biology before just dismissing the whole thing. Hell, there's actually a section on this page that goes really in-depth to Na'vi physiology.
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** Actually, air density being higher would make it easier for flying creatures. They wouldn't require hollow bones, presumably. The Na'vi size difference makes sense... but they're what, nine feet tall? And they just toss people around like crazy despite presumably reduced muscle density. It feels off. They just have superpowers, because the Na'vi are better. Always.
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** Pandora's gravity is 0.8G. But air density is 1.2 of Earth's, so flying animals don't really have it much easier. Also, the Na'vi will have much more musculature than humans (even if it's proportional) due to their size, so the whole "Na'vi flinging humans around" only goes one way.
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** Op here, and maybe i am overestimating them, but doesn't Pandora have about half earth's gravity? Also, DBZ comment came much earlier than I anticipated.
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* You've either watched too much DBZ, or you're vastly overestimating the difference in gravity between the two planets.
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[[folder: Na'vi Strength]]
Why are the Na'vi so damn strong? I can understand their sturdyness being handwaved by their fancy bones, but they live in a low gravity environment, they should be much weaker than they are. The humans are used to and adapted to a much higher gravity environment, as such, an average strenght human should be able to toss a Na'vi around like a ragdoll.
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Why are the Na'vi so damn strong? I can understand their sturdyness being handwaved by their fancy bones, but they live in a low gravity environment, they should be much weaker than they are. The humans are used to and adapted to a much higher gravity environment, as such, an average strenght human should be able to toss a Na'vi around like a ragdoll.
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*** Aw, man. Now you're angry at me because you think I did that and I'm angry at you for accusing me of that. That's not a tangle we can just work around and discuss other stuff, and it's not getting resolved over an anonymous, asynchronous, improvised web page communication method.
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* Yeah, pretty much. Alternatively, most of his 'advantages' compared to the Na'vi stemmed from the fact that he was human (and thus had a different paradigm on the same situations) and Na'vi; race had nothing to do with it.
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The MightyWhitey page says that one of the reasons Jake counts as one is that he was the only Na'vi who managed to get Eywa to help. I don't recall ''any'' other Na'vi going to Eywa and trying to explain. Also, Eywa had just presumably gotten Grace's knowledge about humanity, and Jake was the only Na'vi who could really comprehend and the situation to her.
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The MightyWhitey page says that one of the reasons Jake counts as one is that he was the only Na'vi who managed to get Eywa to help. I don't recall ''any'' other Na'vi going to Eywa and trying to explain. Also, Eywa had just presumably gotten Grace's knowledge about humanity, and Jake was the only Na'vi who could really comprehend and explain the situation to her.her. That's not because he's white, that's just plain logic, right?
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[[folder: Explaining to Eywa]]
The MightyWhitey page says that one of the reasons Jake counts as one is that he was the only Na'vi who managed to get Eywa to help. I don't recall ''any'' other Na'vi going to Eywa and trying to explain. Also, Eywa had just presumably gotten Grace's knowledge about humanity, and Jake was the only Na'vi who could really comprehend and the situation to her.
The MightyWhitey page says that one of the reasons Jake counts as one is that he was the only Na'vi who managed to get Eywa to help. I don't recall ''any'' other Na'vi going to Eywa and trying to explain. Also, Eywa had just presumably gotten Grace's knowledge about humanity, and Jake was the only Na'vi who could really comprehend and the situation to her.
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* [[RubberForeheadAlien The same reason why the Na'vi look so aesthetically similar to humans.]]
