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* Logan's [[IncrediblyLamePun high-flying]] career would probably be appreciated by Lilly Kane's ghost, considering how giddy she and Veronica were about going to San Diego Fleet Week and seeing the sailors [[ThemeTuneCameo a long time ago]].

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* Logan's [[IncrediblyLamePun [[{{Pun}} high-flying]] career would probably be appreciated by Lilly Kane's ghost, considering how giddy she and Veronica were about going to San Diego Fleet Week and seeing the sailors [[ThemeTuneCameo a long time ago]].ago.
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Removed natter


* Hit me today on season two - in the fifth episode, Lamb accuses Keith of having indirectly caused the bus crash by not investigating something the scapegoat/current suspect did properly (I think it was drunk driving). A few weeks after seeing the finale, I think: "Wait, that was irony. Lamb's indirectly responsible for the crash; if he had investigated [[spoiler:Veronica's rape properly, Cassidy]] could very well have been in prison before this ever happened." I think I was kinda slow. - {{Tropers/emmaliza}}
* The solution to Dean O'Dell's murder bugged me. Sure, [[spoiler: it did ruin Landry like it was meant to,]] but it seemed over-complex and unnecessary for his revenge, [[spoiler: Tim could have just killed Landry.]] Then it hit me - [[spoiler: Landry accused Tim of being a "linear thinker" & "uncreative"... the plan was overcomplicated because he didn't just want to get revenge on Landry, he wanted to prove him wrong.]] - {{Tropers/emmaliza}}

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** Actually, it makes the most sense that he would want to spend as much time as possible around Veronica, especially as she closed in on the truth. His closeness to her would not raise any suspicion, especially once he paired himself with Mac, but suddenly he has a way to keep an eye on her, know how close she is getting, know what leads to give her, and keep manipulating as much as it was possible for him to do. And he was smart, he would have recognized that being close to her and being close to her second closest friend was the best thing he could do to keep himself safe from her for as long as possible.
** Actually, he's one of the few to be really on par intelligence wise with Veronica, which was even demonstrated in the episode with the stock markets where they point out that VM was winning but then Cassidy took the lead. He's one of the smartest characters.
** Although the thing he's worried about is her figuring out is probably the bus crash, not the rape. As far as he knows, he got away with the rape completely.
* A minor one, but only occurred to me on re-watch; in "An Echolls' Family Christmas", when Veronica comes to see Weevil early on in the episode, Weevil calls her on the fact that she tilts her head when she's about to ask for a favor (which is an ActorAllusion; see the episode recap). Cut to the second season, and the episode "Driver Ed"; Wallace calls up Veronica to ask her to help him figure out who bumped into Jackie's car, and he does the same head tilt.
** As if that wasn't enough, part of the plot of "An Echolls' Family Christmas" involves a poker game Weevil was involved in, so basically, he's spotted Veronica's "tell".

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** Actually, it makes the most sense that he would want to spend as much time as possible around Veronica, especially as she closed in on the truth. His closeness to her would not raise any suspicion, especially once he paired himself with Mac, but suddenly he has a way to keep an eye on her, know how close she is getting, know what leads to give her, and keep manipulating as much as it was possible for him to do. And he was smart, he would have recognized that being close to her and being close to her second closest friend was the best thing he could do to keep himself safe from her for as long as possible.
** Actually, he's one of the few to be really on par intelligence wise with Veronica, which was even demonstrated in the episode with the stock markets where they point out that VM was winning but then Cassidy took the lead. He's one of the smartest characters.
** Although the thing he's worried about is her figuring out is probably the bus crash, not the rape. As far as he knows, he got away with the rape completely.
* A minor one, but only occurred to me on re-watch; in "An Echolls' Family Christmas", when Veronica comes to see Weevil early on in the episode, Weevil calls her on the fact that she tilts her head when she's about to ask for a favor (which is an ActorAllusion; see the episode recap). Cut to the second season, and the episode "Driver Ed"; Wallace calls up Veronica to ask her to help him figure out who bumped into Jackie's car, and he does the same head tilt.
**
tilt. As if that wasn't enough, part of the plot of "An Echolls' Family Christmas" involves a poker game Weevil was involved in, so basically, he's spotted Veronica's "tell".



** And then he takes it to a whole other level when he orders the [[spoiler: assassination of Aaron.]]



** ... [[IncrediblyLamePun So it's literally]] FridgeHorror?



** Not to sound callous, but she only has herself to blame for stealing money and blaming it on the unpopular black girl.



* Logan's revenge for Veronica putting the bong in his locker wasn't because he's upset about his car being taken away, it was because [[spoiler: Logan was beaten by Aaron for something he didn't do.]] In Universe, Veronica would've likely had a similar FridgeHorror reaction once she connected the dots after learning the truth.
** Similarly, in an episode 4 flashback, he yells at Duncan for spraying champagne on him because he's wearing his dad's tux... which is made all the worse by the fact that Duncan ''knew'' about Logan's situation.

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* Logan's revenge for Veronica putting the bong in his locker wasn't because he's upset about his car being taken away, it was because [[spoiler: Logan was beaten by Aaron for something he didn't do.]] In Universe, Veronica would've likely had a similar FridgeHorror reaction once she connected the dots after learning the truth.
**
truth. Similarly, in an episode 4 flashback, he yells at Duncan for spraying champagne on him because he's wearing his dad's tux... which is made all the worse by the fact that Duncan ''knew'' about Logan's situation.



* Rodney Goodman [[spoiler: is likely also an abuse victim.]] In the season 2 episode, "Nobody Puts Baby In A Corner", Veronica is investigating to see which boy Meg babysat for was being abused, based on information from emails she had sent to Child Protective Services. The parents Veronica encounters seem overly strict or otherwise a bit off, and she states that they are all unsettling enough to be suspects, but does not see or find proof of abuse. When it is revealed that it was not a boy, but [[spoiler: Meg's little sister, Grace]] who Meg was talking about in her emails to CPS as the abuse victim, the other children are not mentioned again. Veronica and the viewer assume that while the parents were very strict about schedules and spilled water, there is not actual abuse going on in those households. However, at the end of the season, when it is revealed that [[spoiler: Woody Goodman had molested Cassidy Casablancas and other boys,]] you realize that [[spoiler: Woody]] may have also abused [[spoiler: his own son]] in the same way. Rodney is starkly different from Gia. Where Gia is bubbly and outgoing, almost ditzy, Rodney is shy and withdrawn. Gia says that he is "sweet but kind of weird." Rodney's panic and nervousness over spilling water are similar to [[spoiler: Grace's ]] behavior, when Veronica and Duncan find her in the closet. It is not until later that you realize Rodney is not afraid of his mother but of [[spoiler: Woody]].
** [[spoiler: Made worse when you consider that his mother was abusive towards him, like the episode suggests. Add in Gia describing him as weird and ignoring him most of the time and his classmates likely bulling him for being weird and having a child molester as a dad (the show made it very clear with Veronica and Jackie that your parent's social status determines your popularity in Neptune) and you end up with a very familiar sounding backstory… shy kid with an abusive parent, uncaring (at least) older sibling, parental abandonment (when Woody leaves the country), molested, and bullied by his peers.]]

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* Rodney Goodman [[spoiler: is likely also an abuse victim.]] In the season 2 episode, "Nobody Puts Baby In A Corner", Veronica is investigating to see which boy Meg babysat for was being abused, based on information from emails she had sent to Child Protective Services. The parents Veronica encounters seem overly strict or otherwise a bit off, and she states that they are all unsettling enough to be suspects, but does not see or find proof of abuse. When it is revealed that it was not a boy, but [[spoiler: Meg's little sister, Grace]] who Meg was talking about in her emails to CPS as the abuse victim, the other children are not mentioned again. Veronica and the viewer assume that while the parents were very strict about schedules and spilled water, there is not actual abuse going on in those households. However, at the end of the season, when it is revealed that [[spoiler: Woody Goodman had molested Cassidy Casablancas and other boys,]] you realize that [[spoiler: Woody]] may have also abused [[spoiler: his own son]] in the same way. Rodney is starkly different from Gia. Where Gia is bubbly and outgoing, almost ditzy, Rodney is shy and withdrawn. Gia says that he is "sweet but kind of weird." Rodney's panic and nervousness over spilling water are similar to [[spoiler: Grace's ]] behavior, when Veronica and Duncan find her in the closet. It is not until later that you realize Rodney is not afraid of his mother but of [[spoiler: Woody]].
**
Woody]]. [[spoiler: Made worse when you consider that his mother was abusive towards him, like the episode suggests. Add in Gia describing him as weird and ignoring him most of the time and his classmates likely bulling him for being weird and having a child molester as a dad (the show made it very clear with Veronica and Jackie that your parent's social status determines your popularity in Neptune) and you end up with a very familiar sounding backstory… shy kid with an abusive parent, uncaring (at least) older sibling, parental abandonment (when Woody leaves the country), molested, and bullied by his peers.]]



** Becomes a major plot point in ''Mr. Kiss and Tell''. Ten years later, a grown-up Grace is [[spoiler:[[TheOldestProfession in a bad way]]]], and resents Veronica for her inaction.
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** Becomes a major plot point in ''Mr. Kiss and Tell''. Ten years later, a grown-up Grace is [[spoiler:[[TheOldestProfession in a bad way]]]], and resents Veronica for her inaction.

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** Becomes a major plot point in ''Mr. Kiss and Tell''. Ten years later, a grown-up Grace is [[spoiler:[[TheOldestProfession in a bad way]]]], and resents Veronica for her inaction.inaction.
* After [[spoiler: Lynn Echolls commits suicide]], her son is left with [[spoiler: his abusive father]]. Granted, she never did much to help, but imagine how worse it got now that she's gone
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typo


* Hit me today on season two - in the fifth episode, Lamb accuses Keith of having indirectly caused the bus crash by not investigating something the scapegoat/current suspect did properly (I think it was drink driving). A few weeks after seeing the finale, I think: "Wait, that was irony. Lamb's indirectly responsible for the crash; if he had investigated [[spoiler:Veronica's rape properly, Cassidy]] could very well have been in prison before this ever happened." I think I was kinda slow. - {{Tropers/emmaliza}}

to:

* Hit me today on season two - in the fifth episode, Lamb accuses Keith of having indirectly caused the bus crash by not investigating something the scapegoat/current suspect did properly (I think it was drink drunk driving). A few weeks after seeing the finale, I think: "Wait, that was irony. Lamb's indirectly responsible for the crash; if he had investigated [[spoiler:Veronica's rape properly, Cassidy]] could very well have been in prison before this ever happened." I think I was kinda slow. - {{Tropers/emmaliza}}
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None


* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of, exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, and was on '' the Russian mob's'' shit list for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]]. These are the same people who [[spoiler: cut up the bodies of their enemies]]. [[LeftHanging Just what did he go through in those years?]]

to:

* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of, exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, and was on '' the Russian mob's'' shit list for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]]. These are the same people who [[spoiler: cut up the bodies of their enemies]]. [[LeftHanging Just what did he go through in those years?]]years?]]
* After finding out that it was Meg's little sister Grace who was being abused by her parents, Veronica and Duncan proceed to forget about her entirely. Even though Veronica helps Duncan kidnap his daughter and flee the country to avoid her being placed in Meg's parents' custody as well, she [[WhatTheHellHero does nothing]] to help Grace. Somewhere, the poor scared girl is still being psychologically tortured...
** Becomes a major plot point in ''Mr. Kiss and Tell''. Ten years later, a grown-up Grace is [[spoiler:[[TheOldestProfession in a bad way]]]], and resents Veronica for her inaction.
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None


* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of, exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on '' the Russian mob's'' shit list for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]]. These are the same people who [[spoiler: cut up the bodies of their enemies]]. [[LeftHanging Just what did he go through in those years?]]

to:

* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of, exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, and was on '' the Russian mob's'' shit list for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]]. These are the same people who [[spoiler: cut up the bodies of their enemies]]. [[LeftHanging Just what did he go through in those years?]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of, exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on ''[[LeftHanging the Russian mob's]]'' shit list for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]].

to:

* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of, exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on ''[[LeftHanging '' the Russian mob's]]'' mob's'' shit list for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]].Veronica]]. These are the same people who [[spoiler: cut up the bodies of their enemies]]. [[LeftHanging Just what did he go through in those years?]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on ''[[LeftHanging the Russian mob's]]'' shit list for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]].

to:

* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of of, exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on ''[[LeftHanging the Russian mob's]]'' shit list for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on [[LeftHanging the ''[[Russian mob's]]'' shit list]] for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]].

to:

* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on [[LeftHanging ''[[LeftHanging the ''[[Russian Russian mob's]]'' shit list]] list for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on [[LeftHanging the '' Russian mob's '' shit list]] for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]].

to:

* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on [[LeftHanging the '' Russian mob's '' ''[[Russian mob's]]'' shit list]] for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on [[LeftHanging the ''Russian mob's'' shit list]] for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]].

to:

* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on [[LeftHanging the ''Russian mob's'' '' Russian mob's '' shit list]] for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


-->'''Lilly:''' Okay, that's just creepy.

to:

-->'''Lilly:''' Okay, that's just creepy.creepy.
* In the post-movie books, Logan is very vague about what his downward spiral before signing up for the Navy consisted of exactly. It's heavily implied that his substance abuse extended beyond alcohol, but then you realize how the series finale [[CutShort left his plot thread]]. He had a grand total of one friend, was on [[LeftHanging the ''Russian mob's'' shit list]] for throwing around and thoroughly embarrassing one of them to [[BerserkButton defend Veronica]].
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None


* Veronica drew Duncan's name in a heart on a shoe once upon a time. Lilly's shoe. Considering the [[AbortedArc originally planned]] [[IncestSubtext storyline]] involving the latter two...

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* Veronica drew Duncan's name in a heart on a shoe once upon a time. Lilly's shoe. Considering the [[AbortedArc originally planned]] [[IncestSubtext storyline]] involving the latter two...two...
-->'''Lilly:''' Okay, that's just creepy.

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** [[spoiler: Made worse when you consider that his mother was abusive towards him, like the episode suggests. Add in Gia describing him as weird and ignoring him most of the time and his classmates likely bulling him for being weird and having a child molester as a dad (the show made it very clear with Veronica and Jackie that your parent's social status determines your popularity in Neptune) and you end up with a very familiar sounding backstory… shy kid with an abusive parent, uncaring (at least) older sibling, parental abandonment (when Woody leaves the country), molested, and bullied by his peers.]]

to:

** [[spoiler: Made worse when you consider that his mother was abusive towards him, like the episode suggests. Add in Gia describing him as weird and ignoring him most of the time and his classmates likely bulling him for being weird and having a child molester as a dad (the show made it very clear with Veronica and Jackie that your parent's social status determines your popularity in Neptune) and you end up with a very familiar sounding backstory… shy kid with an abusive parent, uncaring (at least) older sibling, parental abandonment (when Woody leaves the country), molested, and bullied by his peers.]]]]
* Veronica drew Duncan's name in a heart on a shoe once upon a time. Lilly's shoe. Considering the [[AbortedArc originally planned]] [[IncestSubtext storyline]] involving the latter two...
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* Logan's [[Incredibly proud high-flying]] career would probably be appreciated by Lilly Kane's ghost, considering how giddy she and Veronica were about going to San Diego Fleet Week and seeing the sailors [[ThemeTuneCameo a long time ago]].

to:

* Logan's [[Incredibly proud [[IncrediblyLamePun high-flying]] career would probably be appreciated by Lilly Kane's ghost, considering how giddy she and Veronica were about going to San Diego Fleet Week and seeing the sailors [[ThemeTuneCameo a long time ago]].

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* An important arc in the second season is discovering Felix's murderer. Logan was framed for Felix's murder, and nearly killed because of it. Ironically, the true murderer, Thumper, is framed by Weevil and killed (albeit indirectly) by Logan.

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* An important arc in the second season is discovering Felix's murderer. Logan was framed for Felix's murder, and nearly killed because of it. Ironically, the true murderer, Thumper, [[spoiler:Thumper, is framed by Weevil and killed (albeit indirectly) by Logan.Logan]].


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** And then he takes it to a whole other level when he orders the [[spoiler: assassination of Aaron.]]


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* Logan's [[Incredibly proud high-flying]] career would probably be appreciated by Lilly Kane's ghost, considering how giddy she and Veronica were about going to San Diego Fleet Week and seeing the sailors [[ThemeTuneCameo a long time ago]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Logan's revenge for Veronica putting the bong in his locker wasn't because he's upset about his car being taken away, it was because [[spoiler: Logan was beaten by Aaron for something he didn't do.]] In Universe, Veronica would've likely had a similar FridgeHorror reaction.
** Similarly, in an episode 4 flashback, he yells at Duncan for spraying champagne on him because he's wearing his dad's tux...

to:

* Logan's revenge for Veronica putting the bong in his locker wasn't because he's upset about his car being taken away, it was because [[spoiler: Logan was beaten by Aaron for something he didn't do.]] In Universe, Veronica would've likely had a similar FridgeHorror reaction.
reaction once she connected the dots after learning the truth.
** Similarly, in an episode 4 flashback, he yells at Duncan for spraying champagne on him because he's wearing his dad's tux... which is made all the worse by the fact that Duncan ''knew'' about Logan's situation.
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* Also in the film, [[spoiler:Weevil returns to his old ways as a biker. However, maybe it's to help reform the PCHers, who, as seen in the film, are ''clearly'' as out of control as the 09ers and the police. He may even be working ''with'' Veronica.]]

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* Also in the film, [[spoiler:Weevil returns to his old ways as a biker. However, maybe it's to help reform the PCHers, [=PCHers=], who, as seen in the film, are ''clearly'' as out of control as the 09ers and the police. He may even be working ''with'' Veronica.]]



** Similarly, in an episode 4 flashback, he tells at Duncan for spraying champagne on him because he's wearing his dad's tux...

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** Similarly, in an episode 4 flashback, he tells yells at Duncan for spraying champagne on him because he's wearing his dad's tux...

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adding information



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* Meg Manning is one of the students who was removed from a sports team after her drug test came back positive in "Normal Is the Watchword". However, her drug test probably would have detected [[spoiler: her pregnancy]] as well. Then I thought of something: what if the sample she contributed for the drug test wasn't actually tested?
* One episode reveals that Cindy "Mac" [=MacKenzie=] and Madison Sinclair were SwitchedAtBirth. Sinclair happens to be a brand of computer in the United Kingdom (their most notable product is the UsefulNotes/ZXSpectrum), so Mac would have ended up with a computer-based name either way.

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