History Fridge / PuellaMagiMadokaMagica

15th Sep '16 4:22:46 PM PurpleAlert
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** Homura doesn't fit that pattern. By that logic, it's selfish of a parent to stop their child from touching a hot stove. Everything she does in the series, Rebellion included, is based on the (sometimes erroneous) idea that Madoka doesn't really know as much as she thinks she does and ends up getting killed or worse. In the series, it's the truth about Soul Gems and Grief Seeds and Kyubey, and she ends the series doing just fine, if lonely and more than a little depressed. In the movie, it's that Madoka regrets becoming a goddess (which she doesn't, but Homura thinks she does because of a misunderstanding) and can't evade Kyubey forever (which the movie itself shows is true). Homura's selfishness is that she'll forsake the world for Madoka's happiness, but that's not until Rebellion.
2nd Sep '16 8:10:21 AM secretfan14
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* [[spoiler: If Madoka eventually becomes a witch herself even as a god, what would happen to her labrinth?]] She's already using it. Her labrinth is [[LotusEaterMachine her own version of heaven]]. This is another reason she [[spoiler: caused the paradox to cease her existence.]] This is also why the bodies of [[spoiler: all the magical girls disappear along with their soul gems in the end.]] She's not destroying them, [[WellIntentionedExtremist she's taking them with her]].

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* [[spoiler: If Madoka eventually becomes a witch herself even as a god, what would happen to her labrinth?]] labyrinth?]] She's already using it. Her labrinth labyrinth is [[LotusEaterMachine her own version of heaven]]. This is another reason she [[spoiler: caused the paradox to cease her existence.]] This is also why the bodies of [[spoiler: all the magical girls disappear along with their soul gems in the end.]] She's not destroying them, [[WellIntentionedExtremist she's taking them with her]].



** For recruitment quantity and [[spoiler: energy extraction from emotional wishes]], teenager are probably the best age group to go for. Children would be more easy to recruit since they'd be even less likely to ask questions about the deal and just go in for a wish, plus they'd have few or no reservations about trusting a RidiculouslyCuteCritter like Kyubey. However, their wishes would probably have less emotional attachment to them and more focus on physical gain so [[spoiler: so the Incubators wouldnt get that much energy out of them. Kids are also known for being resilient, meaning they'd probably be less likely to fall into the DespairEventHorizon needed for them to fall into witches.]] On a more horrifying note, children wouldnt fare too well against witches either dying quickly or becoming too frightened to fight. Adults, on the other hand would fare better in a witch fight, but they would be harder to recruit since they would be less trusting and more suspicious of Kyubey's cutesy design and more prone to asking questions Kyubey would rather not divulge answers to.

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** For recruitment quantity and [[spoiler: energy extraction from emotional wishes]], teenager are probably the best age group to go for. Children would be more easy to recruit since they'd be even less likely to ask questions about the deal and just go in for a wish, plus they'd have few or no reservations about trusting a RidiculouslyCuteCritter like Kyubey. However, their wishes would probably have less emotional attachment to them and more focus on physical gain so [[spoiler: so the Incubators wouldnt wouldn't get that much energy out of them. Kids are also known for being resilient, meaning they'd probably be less likely to fall into the DespairEventHorizon needed for them to fall into witches.]] On a more horrifying note, children wouldnt wouldn't fare too well against witches either dying quickly or becoming too frightened to fight. Adults, on the other hand would fare better in a witch fight, but they would be harder to recruit since they would be less trusting and more suspicious of Kyubey's cutesy design and more prone to asking questions Kyubey would rather not divulge answers to.



** It bugged this troper that [[spoiler: Homura would go for intimidation rather than just telling Sayaka ''why'' she needed to clean her soul gem, namely that she would turn into a witch. After the [[SoulJar soul gem revelation]] and finding out Kyubey's untrustworthiness it wouldnt be that hard to believe and given Sayaka's saving people thing there's no way she'd allow herself to become a monster that kills people. However,this troper realized telling her the truth wouldn't have mattered. Even if she believed Homura, given Sayaka's [[DespairEventHorizon state]] she would've reacted by either killing herself to prevent herself becoming a witch or worse she wouldnt have cared and allowed herself to turn to escape the pain. In either case, Madoka would respond by making a contract to bring her friend back. Homura scaring Sayaka into cleaning her gem by threatening to kill her thus reaffirming her will to live was the safer option and it might have worked if Kyoko hadnt interrupted which led to Sayaka overhearing the train conversation which brought her down further.]]

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** It bugged this troper that [[spoiler: Homura would go for intimidation rather than just telling Sayaka ''why'' she needed to clean her soul gem, namely that she would turn into a witch. After the [[SoulJar soul gem revelation]] and finding out Kyubey's untrustworthiness it wouldnt wouldn't be that hard to believe and given Sayaka's saving people thing there's no way she'd allow herself to become a monster that kills people. However,this troper realized telling her the truth wouldn't have mattered. Even if she believed Homura, given Sayaka's [[DespairEventHorizon state]] she would've reacted by either killing herself to prevent herself becoming a witch or worse she wouldnt wouldn't have cared and allowed herself to turn to escape the pain. In either case, Madoka would respond by making a contract to bring her friend back. Homura scaring Sayaka into cleaning her gem by threatening to kill her thus reaffirming her will to live was the safer option and it might have worked if Kyoko hadnt hadn't interrupted which led to Sayaka overhearing the train conversation which brought her down further.]]



** Kyubey implies that [[spoiler: without the incubators human society and civilisation would never have happened - we'd still be living in caves -]] so it's not impossible that girls being socialised to be more emotive was a tactic to try and increase the power of their emotions and thus [[spoiler: the amount of energy they would produce]]. To use his own example [[spoiler: this is kind of like how we have selectively bred livestock to maximise yield and/or quality.]]

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** Kyubey implies that [[spoiler: without the incubators human society and civilisation would never have happened - we'd still be living in caves -]] so it's not impossible that girls being socialised to be more emotive was a tactic to try and increase the power of their emotions and thus [[spoiler: the amount of energy they would produce]]. To use his own example [[spoiler: this is kind of like how we have selectively bred livestock to maximise maximize yield and/or quality.]]



** Further, Kyoko never gets fat! [[spoiler: 1) It would be harder for a fat magical girl to fight. 2) A soul gem is a magical girl's power source. Maybe they don't need to eat at all since Kyuby has removed their souls from their bodies and changed the structure of their bodies. Sell your soul, get a wish, and weight loss!]]

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** Further, Kyoko never gets fat! [[spoiler: 1) It would be harder for a fat magical girl to fight. 2) A soul gem is a magical girl's power source. Maybe they don't need to eat at all since Kyuby Kyubey has removed their souls from their bodies and changed the structure of their bodies. Sell your soul, get a wish, and weight loss!]]



*** Actually [[spoiler: in ''[[Manga/PuellaMagiMadokaMagicaTheDifferentStory The Different Story]]'' which explores Mami and Kyoko's past, showing that they used to work together and Kyoko considered the latter a sister figure, Kyoko mentions that she didnt fully go into Despair since Mami and thus someone she considered family was still alive. That said, this puts Kyoko's TakingYouWithMe in episode 9 in a different light. Family gone, sister/mentor figure dead and the girl she had formed a connection with ads good as dead, she didnt have anything tying her to this world and knew shed become a witch soon so she decided to go out on her own terms before that happened.]]

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*** Actually [[spoiler: in ''[[Manga/PuellaMagiMadokaMagicaTheDifferentStory The Different Story]]'' which explores Mami and Kyoko's past, showing that they used to work together and Kyoko considered the latter a sister figure, Kyoko mentions that she didnt didn't fully go into Despair since Mami - and thus someone she considered family - was still alive. That said, this puts Kyoko's TakingYouWithMe in episode 9 in a different light. Family With her family gone, sister/mentor figure dead and the girl she had formed a connection with ads as good as dead, she didnt Kyoko didn't have anything tying her to this world and knew shed she'd become a witch soon soon, so she decided to go out on her own terms before that happened.]]



** When talking about her past [[spoiler: before the PaterFamilicide]], Kyoko talks about her father who she describes as an honest man and way too nice and the kind of guy who'd read the papers and start tearing up cause he couldn't figure out how to make things better. So, an honest, kind person with a desire to be a hero and help other who then [[spoiler: GoMadFromTheRevelation goes on a self destructive and eventually suicidal streak after finding out the AwfulTruth]] Gee, who does that sound like? Perhaps Kyoko wasnt just comparing Sayaka to herself when narrating her backstory. The reason Kyoko may taken Sayaka to her father's church wasnt just to cheer her up but [[spoiler: prevent her becoming despressed enough to commit suicide or worse take someone else with her.]] It also explains why she sounded so horrified when Sayaka mentioned hurting her best friend (Madoka) when Kyoko found Sayaka moping in the subway; she may had been having flashes of deja vu.

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** When talking about her past [[spoiler: before the PaterFamilicide]], Kyoko talks about her father who she describes as an honest man and way too nice and the kind of guy who'd read the papers and start tearing up cause he couldn't figure out how to make things better. So, an honest, kind person with a desire to be a hero and help other who then [[spoiler: GoMadFromTheRevelation goes on a self destructive and eventually suicidal streak after finding out the AwfulTruth]] Gee, who does that sound like? Perhaps Kyoko wasnt wasn't just comparing Sayaka to herself when narrating her backstory. The reason Kyoko may taken Sayaka to her father's church wasnt wasn't just to cheer her up but [[spoiler: prevent her becoming despressed enough to commit suicide or worse take someone else with her.]] It also explains why she sounded so horrified when Sayaka mentioned hurting her best friend (Madoka) when Kyoko found Sayaka moping in the subway; she may had been having flashes of deja vu.



* At the end of episode 3 after defeating Charlotte who'd just killed [[spoiler: Mami]], Homura states that 'This is the end of a MagicalGirl. Cue a shot of a teacup smashed by a Grief Seed symbolizing [[spoiler: Mami's death.]] At first, it simply seems that Homura was refering to how {{MagicalGirl}}s were bound to die horrible deaths by witches. Until [[spoiler: after episode 8 we find out that {{MagicalGirl}}s who dont purify their Soul Gems become witches.]] Looking at that scene again, this troper realized that Homura was subtly hinting at the darker nature of the Puella Magi system. -spinindiamond

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* At the end of episode 3 after defeating Charlotte who'd just killed [[spoiler: Mami]], Homura states that 'This is the end of a MagicalGirl. Cue a shot of a teacup smashed by a Grief Seed symbolizing [[spoiler: Mami's death.]] At first, it simply seems that Homura was refering to how {{MagicalGirl}}s were bound to die horrible deaths by witches. Until [[spoiler: after episode 8 we find out that {{MagicalGirl}}s who dont don't purify their Soul Gems become witches.]] Looking at that scene again, this troper realized that Homura was subtly hinting at the darker nature of the Puella Magi system. -spinindiamond



*** [[spoiler: Word of God has said that Charlotte's wish was '"To eat a cheesecake with her mother before she died"'. Her mother being a cancer patient who cant eat cheese due to chemotherapy. This results in almost instant despair and witchdom when she realizes she ''could have just wished for her mother to be cured''. Now, think about all the opportunities Madoka would have after the hypothetical cake with Mami to ''really regret eating that cake'' in lieu of a better wish, the ending for example.]]

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*** [[spoiler: Word of God has said that Charlotte's wish was '"To eat a cheesecake with her mother before she died"'. Her mother being a cancer patient who cant can't eat cheese due to chemotherapy. This results in almost instant despair and witchdom when she realizes she ''could have just wished for her mother to be cured''. Now, think about all the opportunities Madoka would have after the hypothetical cake with Mami to ''really regret eating that cake'' in lieu of a better wish, the ending for example.]]



** Mami's victory against Gertrude and loss to [[spoiler: Charlotte]] despite showing off in both fights are simple to explain if you think that Mami had faced another Gertrude before while [[spoiler: Charlotte]] was a witch she hadnt faced. Against Gertrude, Mami gets Gertrude's attention by [[BerserkButton stepping on her flowers]] and aiming her shots to capture the witch at the right time, indicating past experience with the witch. The likely reason Mami didnt tell Madoka and Sayaka about this would be because it looked more impressive that way and she may had been thinking about [[spoiler: Kyoko]]

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** Mami's victory against Gertrude and loss to [[spoiler: Charlotte]] despite showing off in both fights are simple to explain if you think that Mami had faced another Gertrude before while [[spoiler: Charlotte]] was a witch she hadnt faced. Against Gertrude, Mami gets Gertrude's attention by [[BerserkButton stepping on her flowers]] and aiming her shots to capture the witch at the right time, indicating past experience with the witch. The likely reason Mami didnt didn't tell Madoka and Sayaka about this would be because it looked more impressive that way and she may had been thinking about [[spoiler: Kyoko]]



** [[spoiler:''Worse.'' The PaterFamilicide incident could be ''why'' Mami targeted Kyouko first -- so she wouldn't have to witness a similar event again and why she didnt go after [[TimeMaster Homura]] first or the other long range fighter Madoka. Considering the third Drama CD, which reveals Mami and Kyouko's common past and tells things that happen quite a while ''before'' Homura starts the time jumps and time changing... it's ''very'' likely.]]

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** [[spoiler:''Worse.'' The PaterFamilicide incident could be ''why'' Mami targeted Kyouko first -- so she wouldn't have to witness a similar event again and why she didnt didn't go after [[TimeMaster Homura]] first or the other long range fighter Madoka. Considering the third Drama CD, which reveals Mami and Kyouko's common past and tells things that happen quite a while ''before'' Homura starts the time jumps and time changing... it's ''very'' likely.]]



* On a similar note, Mami binding Homura with her ribbons in the third episode after the latter warned her not to go after Charlotte. In episode 10, its revealed [[spoiler: in a previous timeline after Sayaka turned into a witch and was killed, Mami promptly went crazy and attempted to perform MurderSuicide on the cast by starting with tying up Homura so that she couldnt use her TimeStop powers and killing Kyoko.]] so Homura probably thought for a moment that Mami intended to shoot her dead especially in light of their last conversation. [[spoiler: And even if she didnt, being bound again would still conjure up some unpleasant memories.]]

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* On a similar note, Mami binding Homura with her ribbons in the third episode after the latter warned her not to go after Charlotte. In episode 10, its revealed [[spoiler: in a previous timeline after Sayaka turned into a witch and was killed, Mami promptly went crazy and attempted to perform MurderSuicide on the cast by starting with tying up Homura so that she couldnt use her TimeStop powers and killing Kyoko.]] so Homura probably thought for a moment that Mami intended to shoot her dead especially in light of their last conversation. [[spoiler: And even if she didnt, didn't, being bound again would still conjure up some unpleasant memories.]]
27th Aug '16 5:07:31 AM Izzie
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* The most selfish wishes tend to lead to the worst outcomes for the characters. Mami's wish was apparently to survive after a car crash, she says that she didn't really have time to think about it, while Kyouko's was for people to listen to her father because she genuinely believed that he was saying the right things, and that people needed to hear them. Mami died a fairly random death in a fight with a witch, while Kyouko peformed a heroic sacrifice to take out Sayaka's witch form. Compare those to Sayaka, whose wish was for someone else, but who made it because she ultimately wanted to benefit because she was in love with them, and Homura, who initially made her wish because wanted to go back and save Madoka despite Madoka willingly going into the fight knowing that it was likely she could die. Sayaka is turned into a witch, while Homura repeatedly goes back in time, but ultimately fails in the series because, like before, Madoka makes a choice that essentially leads to Homura losing her in a different way, and only succeeds in Rebellion by becoming a villain - and she still loses Madoka.
14th Jul '16 6:37:22 AM Nepeta
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** Sayaka's gem was located on her Navel. She's impulsive and rash when it comes to decisions, or she "acts on her gut feelings."

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** Sayaka's gem was located on her Navel. She's impulsive and rash when it comes to decisions, or she "acts on her gut feelings."" Falling in love is also likened to butterflies in a stomach.



** Homura's gem is on her left hand. [[spoiler: Her power is to stop and turn back "the hands of time." Why her left hand? In analog clocks, the left hand is usually the minute hand and when adjusting time, people usually move the minute hand.]]
*** A bit more sinisterly, [[spoiler:the left hand is the 'bad' hand, is where we derive the word 'sinister' (sinistra, ''left''), which is related to treachery, betrayal, and general nastiness IN certain cultures, it's the hand you use for 'dirty' things. It means she is not to be trusted, and foreshadows her '''''betraying Madoka'''''.]]

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** Homura's gem is on her left hand. [[spoiler: Her power is to stop and turn back "the hands of time." Why her left hand? In analog clocks, the left hand is usually the minute hand and when adjusting time, people usually move the minute hand.]]
hand]].
*** A bit more sinisterly, [[{{Pun}} sinister]]ly, [[spoiler:the left hand is the 'bad' hand, is where we derive the word 'sinister' (sinistra, ''left''), which is related to treachery, betrayal, and general nastiness IN certain cultures, it's the hand you use for 'dirty' things. It means she is not to be trusted, and foreshadows her '''''betraying Madoka'''''.]]
12th Jul '16 7:23:03 AM Nepeta
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* [[spoiler: If Madoka eventually becomes a witch herself even as a god, what would happen to her labrinth?]] She's already using it. Her labrinth is her own version of heaven. This is another reason she [[spoiler: caused the paradox to cease her existence.]] This is also why the bodies of [[spoiler: all the magical girls disappear along with their soul gems in the end.]] She's not destroying them, she's taking them with her.

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* [[spoiler: If Madoka eventually becomes a witch herself even as a god, what would happen to her labrinth?]] She's already using it. Her labrinth is [[LotusEaterMachine her own version of heaven.heaven]]. This is another reason she [[spoiler: caused the paradox to cease her existence.]] This is also why the bodies of [[spoiler: all the magical girls disappear along with their soul gems in the end.]] She's not destroying them, [[WellIntentionedExtremist she's taking them with her.her]].
12th Jul '16 7:03:43 AM Nepeta
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* Sayaka's swords are too big for her hands, and she often seems to have a hard time getting her fingers around the hilt. Why? Because a Puella Magi's weapons and outfit are based on what they think is cool - hence why TheCape gets a cape, the pastor's daughter gets a robe, TheOjou gets a ballgown, and the EmoTeen gets a longcoat. Sayaka's idea of a sword is the toy swords she would have played with as a kid, which are often oversized for a kid's hands.

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* Sayaka's swords are too big for her hands, and she often seems to have a hard time getting her fingers around the hilt. Why? Because a Puella Magi's weapons and outfit are based on what they think is cool - hence why TheCape gets a cape, the hunter girl gets a dirndl, the pastor's daughter gets a robe, TheOjou gets a ballgown, and the EmoTeen gets a longcoat. Sayaka's idea of a sword is the toy swords she would have played with as a kid, which are often oversized for a kid's hands.
7th Jul '16 6:02:06 AM Morgenthaler
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* WordOfGod (as seen [[http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Megami_Magazine_2011-07 here]]) reveals that Mami's wish was [[spoiler: "to connect lives"]]. --It's a mistranslation, but the phase "connect lives" can still apply to Mami given her [[CoolBigSis role]] [[TheObiWan in the show]]. She was introduced saving Madoka and Sayaka from a witch. [[spoiler: Episode 10 reveals that she along with Madoka saved Homura from a witch in the first timeline.]] Also she once acted as sempai to Kyoko before the latter became cynical according to the 3rd CD drama. The spinoff Kazumi Magica further expands this by showing that Mami saved Kazumi who would in turn save the other girls who would form the Pleaides Saints and even emulate Mami's attack style and habit of CallingTheirAttacks.

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* WordOfGod (as seen [[http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Megami_Magazine_2011-07 here]]) reveals that Mami's wish was [[spoiler: "to connect lives"]]. --It's a mistranslation, but the phase "connect lives" can still apply to Mami given her [[CoolBigSis role]] [[TheObiWan role in the show]]. She was introduced saving Madoka and Sayaka from a witch. [[spoiler: Episode 10 reveals that she along with Madoka saved Homura from a witch in the first timeline.]] Also she once acted as sempai to Kyoko before the latter became cynical according to the 3rd CD drama. The spinoff Kazumi Magica further expands this by showing that Mami saved Kazumi who would in turn save the other girls who would form the Pleaides Saints and even emulate Mami's attack style and habit of CallingTheirAttacks.
20th Jun '16 12:19:46 PM hillo315
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* Kyubey has emotions. Not the entire spectrum that's normal for humans, but rather only some primitive ones that would be highly valued for pure survival benefits. For example, Kyubey can't feel happy or sad or angry or anything like that. Nor can he feel wistful, or bored. But he *can* feel simple satisfaction, disappointment, fear, etc.
4th May '16 6:29:28 AM TheOneWhoTropes
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** What the magic is doing is ''healing'' the universe; the inevitable increase in entropy is ''rotting'' it. Energy ''is'' changing form without overall increasing or decreasing, as outlined by the First Law of Thermodynamics (EquivalentExchange); according the ''Second'' Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy), it will never be a 100% perfect conversion into work, with some energy changing from being localized to randomly dispersed (mostly as heat). It might make more sense if you replace "the universe is losing energy" with "the universe is ageing/decaying/degenerating until it becomes too old and inefficient to sustain life" (which is pretty much what the Heat Death is about), and "adding more energy" with "the souls of magical girls (who can of course symbolize youth and fertility) reverse the process of energy decay, returning energy to a better, less entropic form, and provide some sort of ''Philosopher's Stone'' for this universe in order to rejuvenate itself". Finally, the laws of Thermodynamics don't matter too much, because Magic could break whatever natural laws it wanted, which is why it's so valuable. It's basically [[GurrenLagann Spiral Power]].
*** It may be a bit of Fridge Horror, but isn't the Kyubeians' {{plan}} eventually leading up to the [[TengenToppaGurrenLagann Spiral Nemesis]]? That was the first thing I thought of with the whole entropy speech.

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** What the magic is doing is ''healing'' the universe; the inevitable increase in entropy is ''rotting'' it. Energy ''is'' changing form without overall increasing or decreasing, as outlined by the First Law of Thermodynamics (EquivalentExchange); according the ''Second'' Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy), it will never be a 100% perfect conversion into work, with some energy changing from being localized to randomly dispersed (mostly as heat). It might make more sense if you replace "the universe is losing energy" with "the universe is ageing/decaying/degenerating until it becomes too old and inefficient to sustain life" (which is pretty much what the Heat Death is about), and "adding more energy" with "the souls of magical girls (who can of course symbolize youth and fertility) reverse the process of energy decay, returning energy to a better, less entropic form, and provide some sort of ''Philosopher's Stone'' for this universe in order to rejuvenate itself". Finally, the laws of Thermodynamics don't matter too much, because Magic could break whatever natural laws it wanted, which is why it's so valuable. It's basically [[GurrenLagann [[Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann Spiral Power]].
*** It may be a bit of Fridge Horror, but isn't the Kyubeians' {{plan}} eventually leading up to the [[TengenToppaGurrenLagann [[Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann Spiral Nemesis]]? That was the first thing I thought of with the whole entropy speech.
1st May '16 10:34:21 AM TheOneWhoTropes
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*** [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII A time-]][[VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry traveling]] [[UminekoNoNakuKoroNi witch?]]

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*** [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII A time-]][[VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry traveling]] [[UminekoNoNakuKoroNi [[VisualNovel/UminekoWhenTheyCry witch?]]
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Fridge.PuellaMagiMadokaMagica