History Fridge / KellysHeroes

3rd Sep '15 10:50:19 AM Inceptor57
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* Oddball explains that his crews have fitted pipes to their tanks to make their undergunned Shermans seem more menacing[[note]]in reality, the tanks used for filming had been fitted with larger guns after the war[[/note]]. In fact, there did exist a Sherman variant (the Firefly) which had a far more powerful gun (the British 17-pounder anti-tank gun [[note]]For the Americans, they have the almost equivalent 76mm gun for their Shermans, however in the early stages of the invasion of France, commanders declined to bring them for logistical reasons. The 76mm gun was almost the same looks as the 17-pounder.[[/note]]) that was quite capable of knocking out a Tiger I[[note]]though not a Tiger II[[/note]] or a Panther, and was actually just as powerful as the famous 88mm Tiger cannon or the 75mm gun used by the Panther[[note]]not that this was a decisive advantage since the Sherman was under-armored as well by 1944 standards: the German tanks could knock out a Sherman tank at any range[[/note]]. The Germans did see the Firefly tanks as a serious threat, but their reaction was quite predictably to attempt to eliminate them first and leave the regular Shermans for later[[note]]tank units needed both kinds since no good high explosive shell was available for the 17-pounder at that time, leaving it excellent against tanks but nearly useless against infantry or buildings, which was the forte of the regular Sherman tank guns[[/note]]. This lead the Firefly crews to do anything they could to ''hide'' their larger gun (e.g. using white paint to make it appear shorter with [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Firefly#/media/File:Sherman_Firefly_9-08-2008_15-05-43.JPG illusion camoflauge]] ) rather than try to emphasize it like what Oddball did with his Shermans.
to:
* Oddball explains that his crews have fitted pipes to their tanks to make their undergunned Shermans seem more menacing[[note]]in reality, the tanks used for filming had been fitted with larger guns after the war[[/note]]. In fact, there did exist a Sherman variant (the Firefly) which had a far more powerful gun (the British 17-pounder anti-tank gun [[note]]For the Americans, they have the almost equivalent 76mm gun for their Shermans, however in the early stages of the invasion of France, commanders declined to bring them for logistical reasons. The 76mm gun was had almost the same looks as the 17-pounder.[[/note]]) that was quite capable of knocking out a Tiger I[[note]]though not a Tiger II[[/note]] or a Panther, and was actually just as powerful as the famous 88mm Tiger cannon or the 75mm gun used by the Panther[[note]]not that this was a decisive advantage since the Sherman was under-armored as well by 1944 standards: the German tanks could knock out a Sherman tank at any range[[/note]]. The Germans did see the Firefly tanks as a serious threat, but their reaction was quite predictably to attempt to eliminate them first and leave the regular Shermans for later[[note]]tank units needed both kinds since no good high explosive shell was available for the 17-pounder at that time, leaving it excellent against tanks but nearly useless against infantry or buildings, which was the forte of the regular Sherman tank guns[[/note]]. This lead the Firefly crews to do anything they could to ''hide'' their larger gun (e.g. using white paint to make it appear shorter with [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Firefly#/media/File:Sherman_Firefly_9-08-2008_15-05-43.JPG illusion camoflauge]] ) rather than try to emphasize it like what Oddball did with his Shermans.
3rd Sep '15 10:49:49 AM Inceptor57
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* Oddball explains that his crews have fitted pipes to their tanks to make their undergunned Shermans seem more menacing[[note]]in reality, the tanks used for filming had been fitted with larger guns after the war[[/note]]. In fact, there did exist a Sherman variant (the Firefly) which had a far more powerful gun (the British 17-pounder anti-tank gun) that was quite capable of knocking out a Tiger[[note]]though not a King Tiger[[/note]] or a Panther, and was actually more powerful than the famous 88mm Tiger cannon or the 75mm gun used by the Panther[[note]]not that this was a decisive advantage since the Sherman was under-armored as well by 1944 standards: the German tanks could knock out a Sherman tank at any range[[/note]]. The Germans did see the Firefly tanks as a serious threat, but their reaction was quite predictably to attempt to eliminate them first and leave the regular Shermans for later[[note]]tank units needed both kinds since no good high explosive shell was available for the 17-pounder at that time, leaving it excellent against tanks but nearly useless against infantry or buildings, which was the forte of the regular Sherman tank guns[[/note]]. This lead the Firefly crews to do anything they could to ''hide'' their larger gun (e.g. using white paint to make it appear shorter) rather than try to emphasize it.
to:
* Oddball explains that his crews have fitted pipes to their tanks to make their undergunned Shermans seem more menacing[[note]]in reality, the tanks used for filming had been fitted with larger guns after the war[[/note]]. In fact, there did exist a Sherman variant (the Firefly) which had a far more powerful gun (the British 17-pounder anti-tank gun) gun [[note]]For the Americans, they have the almost equivalent 76mm gun for their Shermans, however in the early stages of the invasion of France, commanders declined to bring them for logistical reasons. The 76mm gun was almost the same looks as the 17-pounder.[[/note]]) that was quite capable of knocking out a Tiger[[note]]though Tiger I[[note]]though not a King Tiger[[/note]] Tiger II[[/note]] or a Panther, and was actually more just as powerful than as the famous 88mm Tiger cannon or the 75mm gun used by the Panther[[note]]not that this was a decisive advantage since the Sherman was under-armored as well by 1944 standards: the German tanks could knock out a Sherman tank at any range[[/note]]. The Germans did see the Firefly tanks as a serious threat, but their reaction was quite predictably to attempt to eliminate them first and leave the regular Shermans for later[[note]]tank units needed both kinds since no good high explosive shell was available for the 17-pounder at that time, leaving it excellent against tanks but nearly useless against infantry or buildings, which was the forte of the regular Sherman tank guns[[/note]]. This lead the Firefly crews to do anything they could to ''hide'' their larger gun (e.g. using white paint to make it appear shorter) shorter with [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Firefly#/media/File:Sherman_Firefly_9-08-2008_15-05-43.JPG illusion camoflauge]] ) rather than try to emphasize it.it like what Oddball did with his Shermans.
3rd Mar '15 12:47:11 AM h27kim
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* Oddball explains that his crews have fitted pipes to their tanks to make their undergunned Shermans seem more menacing[[note]]in reality, the tanks used for filming had been fitted with larger guns after the war[[/note]]. In fact, there did exist a Sherman variant (the Firefly) which had a far more powerful gun (the British 17-pounder anti-tank gun) that was quite capable of knocking out a Tiger[[note]]though not a King Tiger[[/note]] or a Panther, and was actually more powerful than the famous 88mm Tiger cannon or the 75mm gun used by the Panther[[note]]not that this was a decisive advantage since the Sherman was under-armored as well by 1944 standards: the German tanks could knock out a Sherman tank at any range[[/note]]. The Germans did see the Firefly tanks as a serious threat, but their reaction was quite predictably to attempt to eliminate them first and leave the regular Shermans for later[[note]]tank units needed both kinds since no good high explosive shell was available for the 17-pounder at that time, leaving it excellent against tanks but nearly useless against infantry or buildings, which was the forte of the regular Sherman tank guns[[/note]]. This lead the Firefly crews to do anything they could to ''hide'' their larger gun (e.g. using white paint to make it appear shorter) rather than try to emphasize it.
to:
* Oddball explains that his crews have fitted pipes to their tanks to make their undergunned Shermans seem more menacing[[note]]in reality, the tanks used for filming had been fitted with larger guns after the war[[/note]]. In fact, there did exist a Sherman variant (the Firefly) which had a far more powerful gun (the British 17-pounder anti-tank gun) that was quite capable of knocking out a Tiger[[note]]though not a King Tiger[[/note]] or a Panther, and was actually more powerful than the famous 88mm Tiger cannon or the 75mm gun used by the Panther[[note]]not that this was a decisive advantage since the Sherman was under-armored as well by 1944 standards: the German tanks could knock out a Sherman tank at any range[[/note]]. The Germans did see the Firefly tanks as a serious threat, but their reaction was quite predictably to attempt to eliminate them first and leave the regular Shermans for later[[note]]tank units needed both kinds since no good high explosive shell was available for the 17-pounder at that time, leaving it excellent against tanks but nearly useless against infantry or buildings, which was the forte of the regular Sherman tank guns[[/note]]. This lead the Firefly crews to do anything they could to ''hide'' their larger gun (e.g. using white paint to make it appear shorter) rather than try to emphasize it.it. * What would happen to the German tankmen if they get caught, whether by Allies or Germans? They deserted from the German military--and deserting from the SS is bound to be treated harshly. Since they are wearing US tankmen's uniforms they traded for from Oddball's crew, they can be shot as spies if they are caught by Allies.
3rd Mar '14 1:58:30 AM hoodiecrow
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Considering how inferior the Sherman tank was, it's a testament to the determination and courage of the Sherman crews that they not only took up battle, but eventually *won*.
* Oddball explains that his crews have fitted pipes to their tanks to make their undergunned Shermans seem more menacing[[note]]in reality, the tanks used for filming had been fitted with larger guns after the war[[/note]]. In fact, there did exist a Sherman variant (the Firefly) which had a far more powerful gun (the British 17-pounder anti-tank gun) that was quite capable of knocking out a Tiger[[note]]though not a King Tiger[[/note]] or a Panther, and was actually more powerful than the famous 88mm Tiger cannon or the 75mm gun used by the Panther. The Germans did see the Firefly tanks as a serious threat, but their reaction was quite predictably to attempt to eliminate them first and leave the regular Shermans for later[[note]]tank units needed both kinds since no good high explosive shell was available for the 17-pounder at that time, leaving it excellent against tanks but nearly useless against infantry or buildings, which was the forte of the regular Sherman tank guns[[/note]]. This lead the Firefly crews to do anything they could to ''hide'' their larger gun (e.g. using white paint to make it appear shorter) rather than try to emphasize it.
to:
* Oddball explains that his crews have fitted pipes to their tanks to make their undergunned Shermans seem more menacing[[note]]in reality, the tanks used for filming had been fitted with larger guns after the war[[/note]]. In fact, there did exist a Sherman variant (the Firefly) which had a far more powerful gun (the British 17-pounder anti-tank gun) that was quite capable of knocking out a Tiger[[note]]though not a King Tiger[[/note]] or a Panther, and was actually more powerful than the famous 88mm Tiger cannon or the 75mm gun used by the Panther.Panther[[note]]not that this was a decisive advantage since the Sherman was under-armored as well by 1944 standards: the German tanks could knock out a Sherman tank at any range[[/note]]. The Germans did see the Firefly tanks as a serious threat, but their reaction was quite predictably to attempt to eliminate them first and leave the regular Shermans for later[[note]]tank units needed both kinds since no good high explosive shell was available for the 17-pounder at that time, leaving it excellent against tanks but nearly useless against infantry or buildings, which was the forte of the regular Sherman tank guns[[/note]]. This lead the Firefly crews to do anything they could to ''hide'' their larger gun (e.g. using white paint to make it appear shorter) rather than try to emphasize it.
27th Feb '14 1:10:02 PM hoodiecrow
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* Oddball explains that his crews have fitted pipes to their tanks to make their undergunned Shermans seem more menacing[[note]]in reality, the tanks used for filming had been fitted with larger guns after the war[[/note]]. In fact, there did exist a Sherman variant (the Firefly) which had a far more powerful gun (the British 17-pounder anti-tank gun) that was quite capable of knocking out a Tiger[[note]]though not a King Tiger[[/note]] or a Panther, and was actually more powerful than the famous 88mm Tiger cannon or the 75mm gun used by the Panther. The Germans did see the Firefly tanks as a serious threat, but their reaction was quite predictably to attempt to eliminate them first and leave the regular Shermans for later[[note]]tank units needed both kinds since there wasn't any good high explosive shells available for the 17-pounder at that time, leaving it excellent against tanks but nearly useless against infantry or buildings, which was the forte of the regular Sherman tank guns[[/note]]. This lead the Firefly crews to do anything they could to ''hide'' their larger gun (e.g. using white paint to make it appear shorter) rather than try to emphasize it.
to:
* Oddball explains that his crews have fitted pipes to their tanks to make their undergunned Shermans seem more menacing[[note]]in reality, the tanks used for filming had been fitted with larger guns after the war[[/note]]. In fact, there did exist a Sherman variant (the Firefly) which had a far more powerful gun (the British 17-pounder anti-tank gun) that was quite capable of knocking out a Tiger[[note]]though not a King Tiger[[/note]] or a Panther, and was actually more powerful than the famous 88mm Tiger cannon or the 75mm gun used by the Panther. The Germans did see the Firefly tanks as a serious threat, but their reaction was quite predictably to attempt to eliminate them first and leave the regular Shermans for later[[note]]tank units needed both kinds since there wasn't any no good high explosive shells shell was available for the 17-pounder at that time, leaving it excellent against tanks but nearly useless against infantry or buildings, which was the forte of the regular Sherman tank guns[[/note]]. This lead the Firefly crews to do anything they could to ''hide'' their larger gun (e.g. using white paint to make it appear shorter) rather than try to emphasize it.
27th Feb '14 1:06:35 PM hoodiecrow
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Added DiffLines:
* Oddball explains that his crews have fitted pipes to their tanks to make their undergunned Shermans seem more menacing[[note]]in reality, the tanks used for filming had been fitted with larger guns after the war[[/note]]. In fact, there did exist a Sherman variant (the Firefly) which had a far more powerful gun (the British 17-pounder anti-tank gun) that was quite capable of knocking out a Tiger[[note]]though not a King Tiger[[/note]] or a Panther, and was actually more powerful than the famous 88mm Tiger cannon or the 75mm gun used by the Panther. The Germans did see the Firefly tanks as a serious threat, but their reaction was quite predictably to attempt to eliminate them first and leave the regular Shermans for later[[note]]tank units needed both kinds since there wasn't any good high explosive shells available for the 17-pounder at that time, leaving it excellent against tanks but nearly useless against infantry or buildings, which was the forte of the regular Sherman tank guns[[/note]]. This lead the Firefly crews to do anything they could to ''hide'' their larger gun (e.g. using white paint to make it appear shorter) rather than try to emphasize it.
27th Jan '14 8:30:25 AM ChaoticNovelist
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Moved to headscratchers
! FridgeLogic: !! Details on the WritersCannotDoMath entry: Math kudzu and gold geekery. [[folder:Gold Bar Geekery]] The things we're directly and unequivocally told: * There are 14,000 bars of gold in the stash. (The German prisoner states as much.) * The total value of the gold is around 16 million dollars. (Crapgame, once he gets "the Paris price" and corrects for the decimal point he misplaced the first time he figured it.) * There are 125 boxes of gold bars "after splitting with Oddball and the Germans" (Crapgame again, in the truck as it's being loaded.) * Each box of bars is worth 8,400 USD (Crapgame, in the truck, talking to Bishop) * Kelly's men are taking 10,500,000 USD. (Bishop and Crapgame) * Kelly's men are splitting their share 12 ways -- 875,000 each (Bishop and Crapgame) * The German tank commander got "an equal share" (Stated by Kelly, during the face-off.) The assumptions (and what supports them): * ''The bars are nonstandard bars'', weighing either 20 or 24 troy ounces (depending on whether there are 12 (for 20 oz bars) or 10 (for 24 oz bars) in each box), rather than the "Good Delivery" standard bar or "kilobar", weighing 1 kilogram. ** The way the bars are handled. A single Good Delivery bar weighs between 320 and 450 troy ounces -- between 24 and 29 ''pounds''. No one noticed any oddness about the German's dispatch bag -- like very heavy weight in it. Kelly, and everyone else who handles a single bar, handles it easily with one hand. The boxes are shown holding either 10 or 12 bars (there's never a completely unobstructed shot to establish which it is), and the soldiers handle them easily -- in some cases, picking up two at a time, one in each hand. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCYOa9egpaM Seen in this clip, starting at about 1:20]] A box of 10 or 12 Good Delivery bars would weigh between 240 and 350 pounds. ** The total value of the gold as stated: just ''one'' of the smallest acceptable Good Delivery bars (320 troy ounces) would be worth over 11,000 USD; 14,000 of them would be worth '''156''' million USD, not 16 million. Not only would Crapgame have had to misplace the decimal point ''twice'', and not have caught the mistake the second time, but a single bar would be worth more than the value he ''explicitly'' gives to each box of 10 or 12 bars. ** The value as stated of each box: each box is worth $8,400. At $35.00 an ounce, that's 240 troy ounces (20 normal pounds -- there are 12 troy ounces in an avoirdupois (standard) pound). A kilobar weighs 32(and a fraction) troy ounces. At $35.00 an ounce, one kilobar would be worth $1120.00. There is no way to get $8400.00 per box using whole kilobars. 7 would be worth only $7,840; 8 would be worth $8,960.00. ** Good Delivery bars are stamped and hallmarked when they're made. None of the bars we see have any markings whatsoever on them. They're all smooth, flat, and highly polished. * Everyone present (except the German tank crew who we never saw) got an equal share. There are 18 shares. ** Kelly and his men (12 total) are splitting $10,500,000 equally (Crapgame and Bishop, talking). ** A Sherman's normal crew was 5. (Wikipedia) ** A Tiger's normal crew was also 5 (Wikipedia) ** Oddball and his crew, and "the Germans" (Meaning only the tank commander) presumably get the same amount (875,000 USD each). 875,000 multiplied by 6 equals 5,250,000, bringing the total to $15,750,000 in 18 shares. Multiplying it by 10, to give each of the German tank crew a share, brings the total to 19,250,000. Crapgame calls the total 16 million. He ''might'' round 15,750,000 ''up'' to 16 million. He would ''not'' round over 19 million ''down'' to 16. * Oddball and his crew and the German accounted for 62 (or 62.5) boxes for a total box count to start with of 187 (or 187.5). The Stumbling Blocks: * Nowhere near enough boxes. Taking the assumptions above, there were 187 or 188 boxes: ** 14,000 bars, packed in boxes of 10, requires 1400 boxes. ** Packed in boxes of 12, it requires 1166 full boxes and one partial box. Or * Nowhere near enough bars in each box: ** 14,000 bars packed into 187 or 188 boxes requires 74 and a fraction bars to the box. Not 10 or 12. And * The value of the gold doesn't match up with the number and weight of the bars at the same time. ** You can have 14,000 bars that weigh 20 troy ounces, packed 12 to the box, but that only adds up to $9,800,000 ** You can have 14,000 bars that weigh 24 ounces, packed 10 to the box, but that only adds up to $11,760,000. ** You can have 14,000 bars that are worth $16,000,000, but then each bar has to be worth $1142.00, and you can't have boxes that are worth $8,400 each without having a fraction of a bar in each box. Conclusions: 1) The whole mess can be explained by a prop guy making the bars (non-standard, Nazi spoils, off-the-record bars by the way) too big. 2) The writers just picked numbers that sounded good, and no one did the math at all. [[/folder]] !! The aftermath of the heist So, what exactly would have happened after the film ended? Clearly, Kelly and his companions could not have returned to the Allied lines, as they would face court martial or even attack by friendly units, as they are driving a German truck (and in Oddball's case, a German ''tank''). There are some implications that their intent is to desert to Switzerland, where they could bank the gold and ride out the war. How they would return to the United States without being arrested, though, is anybody's guess. * Considering that Colt thought Kelly and his men were actually pushing through on their own initiative rather than trying to steal a bank full of gold, it probably wouldn't have been hard into fooling him into pardoning their unauthorized attack.
12th May '13 6:11:28 PM Madrugada
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OR the whole mess can be explained by a prop guy making the bars (non-standard, Nazi spoils, off-the-record bars by the way) too big.
to:
OR the Conclusions: 1) The whole mess can be explained by a prop guy making the bars (non-standard, Nazi spoils, off-the-record bars by the way) too big.big. 2) The writers just picked numbers that sounded good, and no one did the math at all.
26th Mar '13 2:14:02 PM Billthesurly
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to:
OR the whole mess can be explained by a prop guy making the bars (non-standard, Nazi spoils, off-the-record bars by the way) too big.
27th Dec '12 12:39:48 AM spoonofevil
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Added DiffLines:
* Considering that Colt thought Kelly and his men were actually pushing through on their own initiative rather than trying to steal a bank full of gold, it probably wouldn't have been hard into fooling him into pardoning their unauthorized attack.
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