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* You know, in ''TabletopGame/ForgottenRealms'' people in Toril who are faithless get sent to the Wall Of The Faithless for not believing in gods. In the most recent edition, the Abeirans got transposed bodily into Toril, where there have been no gods (that we know of) for thousands of years. Does that mean that the first Abeirans who died got damned for an eternity in a wall because deity worship was pointless when they were born?
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* You know, in ''TabletopGame/ForgottenRealms'' people in Toril who are faithless get sent to the Wall Of The Faithless for not believing in gods. In the most recent edition, the The Abeirans got transposed bodily into Toril, where there have been no gods (that we know of) for thousands of years. Does that mean that the first Abeirans who died got damned for an eternity in a wall because deity worship was pointless when they were born?born?
** It gets worse. That was shortly after the Spellplague, which occurred in 1385 DR. The dragonborn come from there, and over a hundred years later, the majority of them are still faithless. Yet thanks to their code of honor and clan loyalties, they're actually as virtuous as dwarves, elves, or halflings.
** It gets worse. That was shortly after the Spellplague, which occurred in 1385 DR. The dragonborn come from there, and over a hundred years later, the majority of them are still faithless. Yet thanks to their code of honor and clan loyalties, they're actually as virtuous as dwarves, elves, or halflings.
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* It's been stated several times over that the Blood War between the devils and demons is the main reason why evil hasn't conquered the multiverse yet, with Baator and the Abyss keeping each other busy. As of 4e in the realms, ''the Blood War is over''. While neither side managed to defeat the other, Asmodeus cut off contact between the Nine Hells and the Abyss, ending the conflict for the time being. Meaning that as soon as the two sides get their act together, it is open season on the rest of existence.
to:
* It's been stated several times over that the Blood War between the devils and demons is the main reason why evil hasn't conquered the multiverse yet, with Baator and the Abyss keeping each other busy. As of 4e in the realms, ''the Blood War is over''. While neither side managed to defeat the other, Asmodeus cut off contact between the Nine Hells and the Abyss, ending the conflict for the time being. Meaning that as soon as the two sides get their act together, it is open season on the rest of existence. Though 5th Edition retconned this right out of existence.
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* At the end of the Lady Penitent trilogy, a select group of drow are transformed into "redeemed" dark elves--this includes hundreds among Eilistraee's followers (they are at least a few thousands being Eilistraee a and all drow of Miyeritari blood who aren't "tainted" by Wendonai in their ancestry. Potential UnfortunateImplications aside, there's the practical issue of those drow who happened to be Miyeritari and suddenly changed form in the middle of the Underdark--or even worse, in the middle of a Lolth-worshipping city. Might as well stick them with a "Kill Me Now" sign.
** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. Some could ask themselves where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers without so much as asking. However, the change was not performed by Eilistraee, but by Q'arlynd Melarn. As a matter of fact, in her lore Eilistraee has never cared about transforming her people into "dark elves"--back then, she even took the curse on herself to be one of them, and be at their side in the times of need. Over millennia, she has never considered, talked, and much less acted on changing her followers' race. On the contrary, she strives to make the drow flourish, rediscover and embrace life anew, and forge their place in the world as drow, accepted for what they are. A considerable part of her efforts are devoted towards forging postive relationships between *drow* and other races, and have always been since the curse. The trilogy never shows Eilistraee's opinion on this spell and her actions on it. Since the spell was supposed to change all of her followers, but it only changed a narrow part of them, and since at some point during the ritual she even withdrew her guidance, it is possible that the goddess herself stopped it from being completed.
*** This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow as well, and that she also has no plans or interest in performing a similar change again. On the contrary, Eilistraee is trying to nudge her people towards building stronger relationship between *drow* and other races (as shown by her appearance near Waterdeep which led her followers there, where they are now building a glade in her honor snd starting to become part of the city's society).
** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. Some could ask themselves where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers without so much as asking. However, the change was not performed by Eilistraee, but by Q'arlynd Melarn. As a matter of fact, in her lore Eilistraee has never cared about transforming her people into "dark elves"--back then, she even took the curse on herself to be one of them, and be at their side in the times of need. Over millennia, she has never considered, talked, and much less acted on changing her followers' race. On the contrary, she strives to make the drow flourish, rediscover and embrace life anew, and forge their place in the world as drow, accepted for what they are. A considerable part of her efforts are devoted towards forging postive relationships between *drow* and other races, and have always been since the curse. The trilogy never shows Eilistraee's opinion on this spell and her actions on it. Since the spell was supposed to change all of her followers, but it only changed a narrow part of them, and since at some point during the ritual she even withdrew her guidance, it is possible that the goddess herself stopped it from being completed.
*** This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow as well, and that she also has no plans or interest in performing a similar change again. On the contrary, Eilistraee is trying to nudge her people towards building stronger relationship between *drow* and other races (as shown by her appearance near Waterdeep which led her followers there, where they are now building a glade in her honor snd starting to become part of the city's society).
to:
* At the end of the Lady Penitent trilogy, a select group of drow are transformed into "redeemed" dark elves--this includes hundreds among Eilistraee's followers (they are at least a few thousands being Eilistraee a Eilistraee) and all drow of Miyeritari blood who aren't "tainted" by Wendonai in their ancestry. Potential UnfortunateImplications aside, there's the practical issue of those drow who happened to be Miyeritari and suddenly changed form in the middle of the Underdark--or even worse, in the middle of a Lolth-worshipping city. Might as well stick them with a "Kill Me Now" sign.
** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. Some could ask themselves where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers without so much as asking. However, the change was not performed by Eilistraee, but by Q'arlynd Melarn. As a matter of fact, in her lore Eilistraee has never cared about transforming her people into "dark elves"--back then, she even took the curse on herself to be one of them, and be at their side in the times of need. Over millennia, she has never considered, talked, and much less acted on changing her followers' race. On the contrary, she strives to make the drow flourish, rediscover and embrace life anew, and forge their place in the world as drow, accepted for what they are. A considerable part of her efforts are devoted towards forgingpostive positive relationships between *drow* drow and other races, and have always been since the curse. The trilogy never shows Eilistraee's opinion on this spell and her actions on it. Since the spell was supposed to change all of her followers, but it only changed a narrow part of them, and since at some point during the ritual she even withdrew her guidance, it is possible that the goddess herself stopped it from being completed.
*** This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow as well, and that she also has no plans or interest in performing a similar change again. On the contrary, Eilistraee is trying to nudge herpeople people, as drow, towards building stronger relationship between *drow* and with other races (as shown by her appearance near Waterdeep which led her followers there, where they are now building a glade in her honor snd and starting to become part of the city's society).
** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. Some could ask themselves where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers without so much as asking. However, the change was not performed by Eilistraee, but by Q'arlynd Melarn. As a matter of fact, in her lore Eilistraee has never cared about transforming her people into "dark elves"--back then, she even took the curse on herself to be one of them, and be at their side in the times of need. Over millennia, she has never considered, talked, and much less acted on changing her followers' race. On the contrary, she strives to make the drow flourish, rediscover and embrace life anew, and forge their place in the world as drow, accepted for what they are. A considerable part of her efforts are devoted towards forging
*** This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow as well, and that she also has no plans or interest in performing a similar change again. On the contrary, Eilistraee is trying to nudge her
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* It's been stated several times over that the Blood War between the devils and demons is the main reason why evil hasn't conquered the multiverse yet, with Baator and the Abyss keeping each other busy. As of 4e in the realms, ''the Blood War is over''. While neither side managed to defeat the other, Asmodeuscut off contact between the Nine Hells and the Abyss, ending the conflict for the time being. Meaning that as soon as the two sides get their act together, it is open season on the rest of existence.
to:
* It's been stated several times over that the Blood War between the devils and demons is the main reason why evil hasn't conquered the multiverse yet, with Baator and the Abyss keeping each other busy. As of 4e in the realms, ''the Blood War is over''. While neither side managed to defeat the other, Asmodeuscut Asmodeus cut off contact between the Nine Hells and the Abyss, ending the conflict for the time being. Meaning that as soon as the two sides get their act together, it is open season on the rest of existence.
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* You know, in ''ForgottenRealms'' people in Toril who are faithless get sent to the Wall Of The Faithless for not believing in gods. In the most recent edition, the Abeirans got transposed bodily into Toril, where there have been no gods (that we know of) for thousands of years. Does that mean that the first Abeirans who died got damned for an eternity in a wall because deity worship was pointless when they were born?
to:
* You know, in ''ForgottenRealms'' ''TabletopGame/ForgottenRealms'' people in Toril who are faithless get sent to the Wall Of The Faithless for not believing in gods. In the most recent edition, the Abeirans got transposed bodily into Toril, where there have been no gods (that we know of) for thousands of years. Does that mean that the first Abeirans who died got damned for an eternity in a wall because deity worship was pointless when they were born?
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None
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*** This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow as well, and that she also has no plans or interest in performing a similar change again.
to:
*** This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow as well, and that she also has no plans or interest in performing a similar change again. On the contrary, Eilistraee is trying to nudge her people towards building stronger relationship between *drow* and other races (as shown by her appearance near Waterdeep which led her followers there, where they are now building a glade in her honor snd starting to become part of the city's society).
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** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. Some could ask themselves where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers without so much as asking. However, the change was not performed by Eilistraee, but by Q'arlynd Melarn. As a matter of fact, in her lore Eilistraee has never cared about transforming her people into "dark elves"--back then, she even took the curse on herself to be one of them, and be at their side in the times of need. Over millennia, she has never considered, talked, and much less acted on changing her followers' race. On the contrary, she strives to make the drow flourish, rediscover and embrace life anew, and forge their place in the world as drow, accepted for what they are. A considerable part of her efforts are devoted towards forging postive relationships between *drow* and other races, and have always been since the curse. The trilogy never show Eilistraee's opinion on this spell and her action. Since the spell was supposed to change all of her followers, but it only changed a narrow part of them, and since at some point during the ritual she even withdrew her guidance, it is possible that the goddess herself stopped it from being completed.
*** This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow as well.
*** This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow as well.
to:
** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. Some could ask themselves where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers without so much as asking. However, the change was not performed by Eilistraee, but by Q'arlynd Melarn. As a matter of fact, in her lore Eilistraee has never cared about transforming her people into "dark elves"--back then, she even took the curse on herself to be one of them, and be at their side in the times of need. Over millennia, she has never considered, talked, and much less acted on changing her followers' race. On the contrary, she strives to make the drow flourish, rediscover and embrace life anew, and forge their place in the world as drow, accepted for what they are. A considerable part of her efforts are devoted towards forging postive relationships between *drow* and other races, and have always been since the curse. The trilogy never show shows Eilistraee's opinion on this spell and her action.actions on it. Since the spell was supposed to change all of her followers, but it only changed a narrow part of them, and since at some point during the ritual she even withdrew her guidance, it is possible that the goddess herself stopped it from being completed.
*** This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow aswell.well, and that she also has no plans or interest in performing a similar change again.
*** This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow as
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** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. Some could ask themselves where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers without so much as asking. However, the change was not performed by Eilistraee, but by Q'arlynd Melarn. As a matter of fact, in her lore Eilistraee has never cared about transforming her people into "dark elves"--back then, she even took the curse on herself to be one of them, and be at their side in the times of need. Over millennia, she has ever considered, talked, and much less acted on such an idea. On the contrary, she strives to make the drow flourish, rediscover and embrace life anew, and forge their place in the world as drow, accepted for what they are. A considerable part of her efforts are devoted towards forging postive relationships between *drow* and other races, and have always been since the curse. The trilogy never show Eilistraee's opinion on this spell and her action. Since the spell was supposed to change all of her followers, but it only changed a narrow part of them, and since at some point during the ritual she even withdrew her guidance, it is possible that the goddess herself stopped it from being completed.
to:
** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. Some could ask themselves where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers without so much as asking. However, the change was not performed by Eilistraee, but by Q'arlynd Melarn. As a matter of fact, in her lore Eilistraee has never cared about transforming her people into "dark elves"--back then, she even took the curse on herself to be one of them, and be at their side in the times of need. Over millennia, she has ever never considered, talked, and much less acted on such an idea.changing her followers' race. On the contrary, she strives to make the drow flourish, rediscover and embrace life anew, and forge their place in the world as drow, accepted for what they are. A considerable part of her efforts are devoted towards forging postive relationships between *drow* and other races, and have always been since the curse. The trilogy never show Eilistraee's opinion on this spell and her action. Since the spell was supposed to change all of her followers, but it only changed a narrow part of them, and since at some point during the ritual she even withdrew her guidance, it is possible that the goddess herself stopped it from being completed.
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elaborate
Changed line(s) 4,5 (click to see context) from:
* At the end of the Lady Penitent trilogy, a select group of drow are transformed into "redeemed" dark elves--this includes Eilistraee's followers and all drow of Miyeritari blood who aren't "tainted" by Wendonai in their ancestry. Potential UnfortunateImplications aside, there's the practical issue of those drow who happened to be Miyeritari and suddenly changed form in the middle of the Underdark--or even worse, in the middle of a Lolth-worshipping city. Might as well stick them with a "Kill Me Now" sign.
** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. So where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers so profoundly without so much as asking?
** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. So where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers so profoundly without so much as asking?
to:
* At the end of the Lady Penitent trilogy, a select group of drow are transformed into "redeemed" dark elves--this includes hundreds among Eilistraee's followers (they are at least a few thousands being Eilistraee a and all drow of Miyeritari blood who aren't "tainted" by Wendonai in their ancestry. Potential UnfortunateImplications aside, there's the practical issue of those drow who happened to be Miyeritari and suddenly changed form in the middle of the Underdark--or even worse, in the middle of a Lolth-worshipping city. Might as well stick them with a "Kill Me Now" sign.
** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing.So Some could ask themselves where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers so profoundly without so much as asking?asking. However, the change was not performed by Eilistraee, but by Q'arlynd Melarn. As a matter of fact, in her lore Eilistraee has never cared about transforming her people into "dark elves"--back then, she even took the curse on herself to be one of them, and be at their side in the times of need. Over millennia, she has ever considered, talked, and much less acted on such an idea. On the contrary, she strives to make the drow flourish, rediscover and embrace life anew, and forge their place in the world as drow, accepted for what they are. A considerable part of her efforts are devoted towards forging postive relationships between *drow* and other races, and have always been since the curse. The trilogy never show Eilistraee's opinion on this spell and her action. Since the spell was supposed to change all of her followers, but it only changed a narrow part of them, and since at some point during the ritual she even withdrew her guidance, it is possible that the goddess herself stopped it from being completed.
***This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow as well.
** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing.
***This is further supported by the fact that, with her return in the Second Sundering, Eilistraee herself is still drow, and most of her followers are drow as well.
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Lots of discussion removed.
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** I would say not necessarily. Belief does not imply existence and vice versa.
** This troper would like to remind you that, in some cases, a deity can speak up for a soul that they particularly liked but no one had claimed, and that demons and devils both can harvest souls from the wall (devils orderly, demons in huge raids that would make the TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} Orks proud). So some of the Abeirians may have been rescued by the likes of Sune or Ilmater.
** My guess is, they get a pass. Can't worship a god if you don't know gods exist.
*** Except they don't. Souls that don't worship a god go right in to the wall, even if they were the kindest person in existence. So essentially, genocidal monsters that pay lip-service to a god can still go to a comfortable afterlife, while the most noble being in existence can have his very existence painfully erased over thousands of years of torture, for not worshipping gods he or she didn't even know existed. [[CrapsackWorld Forgotten]] [[JerkassGods Realms]], ladies and gentlemen!
*** Paying only lip-service to a god is treated the same as being an atheist.
*** Those who only pay lip service may be judged as the False, who don't get to fade away in the Wall, but are punished for all eternity. (Those who outright betray their god are far more likely to be judged False and get far worse punishments.)
* Oh, I got one for you. It's been stated several times over that the Blood War between the devils and demons is the main reason why evil hasn't conquered the multiverse yet, with Baator and the Abyss keeping each other busy. As of 4e in the realms, ''the Blood War is over''. While neither side managed to defeat the other, Asmodeus(who never considered the Blood War anything more than a nuisance anyway) cut off contact between the Nine Hells and the Abyss, ending the conflict for the time being. Meaning that as soon as the two sides get their act together, it is open season on the rest of existence.
** Well, ''Literature/BrimstoneAngels'' implies that Asmodeus is about to have other problems rather closer to home [[spoiler: namely, that his daughter is planning to knock him off his throne and put herself in his place, though admittedly he seems to fully approve of this behavior so long as she's smart about it]]. I wouldn't be terribly worried about the Abyss putting a united front together either- they are, after all ''Chaotic'' Evil, and in the absence of devils are just as likely to turn on each other.
** This troper would like to remind you that, in some cases, a deity can speak up for a soul that they particularly liked but no one had claimed, and that demons and devils both can harvest souls from the wall (devils orderly, demons in huge raids that would make the TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} Orks proud). So some of the Abeirians may have been rescued by the likes of Sune or Ilmater.
** My guess is, they get a pass. Can't worship a god if you don't know gods exist.
*** Except they don't. Souls that don't worship a god go right in to the wall, even if they were the kindest person in existence. So essentially, genocidal monsters that pay lip-service to a god can still go to a comfortable afterlife, while the most noble being in existence can have his very existence painfully erased over thousands of years of torture, for not worshipping gods he or she didn't even know existed. [[CrapsackWorld Forgotten]] [[JerkassGods Realms]], ladies and gentlemen!
*** Paying only lip-service to a god is treated the same as being an atheist.
*** Those who only pay lip service may be judged as the False, who don't get to fade away in the Wall, but are punished for all eternity. (Those who outright betray their god are far more likely to be judged False and get far worse punishments.)
* Oh, I got one for you. It's been stated several times over that the Blood War between the devils and demons is the main reason why evil hasn't conquered the multiverse yet, with Baator and the Abyss keeping each other busy. As of 4e in the realms, ''the Blood War is over''. While neither side managed to defeat the other, Asmodeus(who never considered the Blood War anything more than a nuisance anyway) cut off contact between the Nine Hells and the Abyss, ending the conflict for the time being. Meaning that as soon as the two sides get their act together, it is open season on the rest of existence.
** Well, ''Literature/BrimstoneAngels'' implies that Asmodeus is about to have other problems rather closer to home [[spoiler: namely, that his daughter is planning to knock him off his throne and put herself in his place, though admittedly he seems to fully approve of this behavior so long as she's smart about it]]. I wouldn't be terribly worried about the Abyss putting a united front together either- they are, after all ''Chaotic'' Evil, and in the absence of devils are just as likely to turn on each other.
to:
** This troper would like to remind you that, in some cases, a deity can speak up for a soul that they particularly liked but no one had claimed, and that demons and devils both can harvest souls from the wall (devils orderly, demons in huge raids that would make the TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} Orks proud). So some of the Abeirians may have been rescued by the likes of Sune or Ilmater.
** My guess is, they get a pass. Can't worship a god if you don't know gods exist.
*** Except they don't. Souls that don't worship a god go right in to the wall, even if they were the kindest person in existence. So essentially, genocidal monsters that pay lip-service to a god can still go to a comfortable afterlife, while the most noble being in existence can have his very existence painfully erased over thousands of years of torture, for not worshipping gods he or she didn't even know existed. [[CrapsackWorld Forgotten]] [[JerkassGods Realms]], ladies and gentlemen!
*** Paying only lip-service to a god is treated the same as being an atheist.
*** Those who only pay lip service may be judged as the False, who don't get to fade away in the Wall, but are punished for all eternity. (Those who outright betray their god are far more likely to be judged False and get far worse punishments.)
* Oh, I got one for you. It's
** Well, ''Literature/BrimstoneAngels'' implies that Asmodeus is about to have other problems rather closer to home [[spoiler: namely, that his daughter is planning to knock him off his throne and put herself in his place, though admittedly he seems to fully approve of this behavior so long as she's smart about it]]. I wouldn't be terribly worried about the Abyss putting a united front together either- they are, after all ''Chaotic'' Evil, and in the absence of devils are just as likely to turn on each other.
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** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. So where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers so profoundly without so much as asking?
** That said, this particular event has been {{Retcon}}ned, and most of what happened in those books has been reverted.
** That said, this particular event has been {{Retcon}}ned, and most of what happened in those books has been reverted.
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** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. So where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers so profoundly without so much as asking?
** That said, this particular event has been {{Retcon}}ned, and most of what happened in those books has been reverted.asking?
** That said, this particular event has been {{Retcon}}ned, and most of what happened in those books has been reverted.
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** Those drow aren't given the possibility to choose, and are forced to accept the transformation. Physical Modification like tattoos or scars are unquestionably horrible if done without recipient agreeing. So where does it put her on the [[BlueAndOrangeMorality moral scale]] if she considers it a good thing to change her followers so profoundly without so much as asking?
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* At the end of the Lady Penitent trilogy, a select group of drow are transformed into "redeemed" dark elves--this includes Eilistraee's followers and all drow of Miyeritari blood who aren't "tainted" by Wendonai in their ancestry. Potential UnfortunateImplications aside, there's the practical issue of those drow who happened to be Miyeritari and suddenly changed form in the middle of the Underdark--or even worse, in the middle of a Lolth-worshipping city. Might as well stick them with a "Kill Me Now" sign.
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* At the end of the Lady Penitent trilogy, a select group of drow are transformed into "redeemed" dark elves--this includes Eilistraee's followers and all drow of Miyeritari blood who aren't "tainted" by Wendonai in their ancestry. Potential UnfortunateImplications aside, there's the practical issue of those drow who happened to be Miyeritari and suddenly changed form in the middle of the Underdark--or even worse, in the middle of a Lolth-worshipping city. Might as well stick them with a "Kill Me Now" sign.sign.
** That said, this particular event has been {{Retcon}}ned, and most of what happened in those books has been reverted.
** That said, this particular event has been {{Retcon}}ned, and most of what happened in those books has been reverted.
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**** Those who only pay lip service may be judged as the False, who don't get to fade away in the Wall, but are punished for all eternity. (Those who outright betray their god are far more likely to be judged False and get far worse punishments.)
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** Well, ''Literature/BrimstoneAngels'' implies that Asmodeus is about to have other problems rather closer to home [[spoiler: namely, that his daughter is planning to knock him off his throne and put herself in his place, though admittedly he seems to fully approve of this behavior so long as she's smart about it]]. I wouldn't be terribly worried about the Abyss putting a united front together either- they are, after all ''Chaotic'' Evil, and in the absence of devils are just as likely to turn on each other.
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* Oh, I got one for you. It's been stated several times over that the Blood War between the devils and demons is the main reason why evil hasn't conquered the multiverse yet, with Baator and the Abyss keeping each other busy. As of 4e in the realms, ''the Blood War is over''. While neither side managed to defeat the other, Asmodeus(who never considered the Blood War anything more than a nuisance anyway) cut off contact between the Nine Hells and the Abyss, ending the conflict for the time being. Meaning that as soon as the two sides get their act together, it is open season on the rest of existence.
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* Oh, I got one for you. It's been stated several times over that the Blood War between the devils and demons is the main reason why evil hasn't conquered the multiverse yet, with Baator and the Abyss keeping each other busy. As of 4e in the realms, ''the Blood War is over''. While neither side managed to defeat the other, Asmodeus(who never considered the Blood War anything more than a nuisance anyway) cut off contact between the Nine Hells and the Abyss, ending the conflict for the time being. Meaning that as soon as the two sides get their act together, it is open season on the rest of existence.existence.
* At the end of the Lady Penitent trilogy, a select group of drow are transformed into "redeemed" dark elves--this includes Eilistraee's followers and all drow of Miyeritari blood who aren't "tainted" by Wendonai in their ancestry. Potential UnfortunateImplications aside, there's the practical issue of those drow who happened to be Miyeritari and suddenly changed form in the middle of the Underdark--or even worse, in the middle of a Lolth-worshipping city. Might as well stick them with a "Kill Me Now" sign.
* At the end of the Lady Penitent trilogy, a select group of drow are transformed into "redeemed" dark elves--this includes Eilistraee's followers and all drow of Miyeritari blood who aren't "tainted" by Wendonai in their ancestry. Potential UnfortunateImplications aside, there's the practical issue of those drow who happened to be Miyeritari and suddenly changed form in the middle of the Underdark--or even worse, in the middle of a Lolth-worshipping city. Might as well stick them with a "Kill Me Now" sign.
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*** Paying only lip-service to a god is treated the same as being an atheist.
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*** Paying only lip-service to a god is treated the same as being an atheist.atheist.
* Oh, I got one for you. It's been stated several times over that the Blood War between the devils and demons is the main reason why evil hasn't conquered the multiverse yet, with Baator and the Abyss keeping each other busy. As of 4e in the realms, ''the Blood War is over''. While neither side managed to defeat the other, Asmodeus(who never considered the Blood War anything more than a nuisance anyway) cut off contact between the Nine Hells and the Abyss, ending the conflict for the time being. Meaning that as soon as the two sides get their act together, it is open season on the rest of existence.
* Oh, I got one for you. It's been stated several times over that the Blood War between the devils and demons is the main reason why evil hasn't conquered the multiverse yet, with Baator and the Abyss keeping each other busy. As of 4e in the realms, ''the Blood War is over''. While neither side managed to defeat the other, Asmodeus(who never considered the Blood War anything more than a nuisance anyway) cut off contact between the Nine Hells and the Abyss, ending the conflict for the time being. Meaning that as soon as the two sides get their act together, it is open season on the rest of existence.
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*** Except they don't. Souls that don't worship a god go right in to the wall, even if they were the kindest person in existence. So essentially, genocidal monsters that pay lip-service to a god can still go to a comfortable afterlife, while the most noble being in existence can have his very existence painfully erased over thousands of years of torture, for not worshipping gods he or she didn't even know existed. [[CrapsackWorld Forgotten]] [[JerkassGods Realms]], ladies and gentlemen!
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*** Except they don't. Souls that don't worship a god go right in to the wall, even if they were the kindest person in existence. So essentially, genocidal monsters that pay lip-service to a god can still go to a comfortable afterlife, while the most noble being in existence can have his very existence painfully erased over thousands of years of torture, for not worshipping gods he or she didn't even know existed. [[CrapsackWorld Forgotten]] [[JerkassGods Realms]], ladies and gentlemen!gentlemen!
*** Paying only lip-service to a god is treated the same as being an atheist.
*** Paying only lip-service to a god is treated the same as being an atheist.
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change namespace, yeah
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** This troper would like to remind you that, in some cases, a deity can speak up for a soul that they particularly liked but no one had claimed, and that demons and devils both can harvest souls from the wall (devils orderly, demons in huge raids that would make the {{Warhammer 40000}} Orks proud). So some of the Abeirians may have been rescued by the likes of Sune or Ilmater.
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** This troper would like to remind you that, in some cases, a deity can speak up for a soul that they particularly liked but no one had claimed, and that demons and devils both can harvest souls from the wall (devils orderly, demons in huge raids that would make the {{Warhammer TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} Orks proud). So some of the Abeirians may have been rescued by the likes of Sune or Ilmater.
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*** Except they don't. Souls that don't worship a god go right in to the wall, even if they were the kindest person in existence. So essentially, genocidal monsters that pay lip-service to a god can still go to a comfortable afterlife, while the most noble being in existence can have his very existence painfully erased over thousands of years of torture, for not worshipping gods he or she didn't even know existed. [[CrapsackWorld Fae]][[JerkassGods run]], ladies and gentlemen!
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*** Except they don't. Souls that don't worship a god go right in to the wall, even if they were the kindest person in existence. So essentially, genocidal monsters that pay lip-service to a god can still go to a comfortable afterlife, while the most noble being in existence can have his very existence painfully erased over thousands of years of torture, for not worshipping gods he or she didn't even know existed. [[CrapsackWorld Fae]][[JerkassGods run]], Forgotten]] [[JerkassGods Realms]], ladies and gentlemen!
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*** Except they don't. Souls that don't worship a god go right in to the wall, even if they were the kindest person in existence. So essentially, genocidal monsters that pay lip-service to a god can still go to a comfortable afterlife, while the most noble being in existence can have his very existence painfully erased over thousands of years of torture, for not worshipping gods he or she didn't even know existed. [[CrapsackWorld Fae]][[JerkassGodsrun]], ladies and gentlemen!
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*** Except they don't. Souls that don't worship a god go right in to the wall, even if they were the kindest person in existence. So essentially, genocidal monsters that pay lip-service to a god can still go to a comfortable afterlife, while the most noble being in existence can have his very existence painfully erased over thousands of years of torture, for not worshipping gods he or she didn't even know existed. [[CrapsackWorld Fae]][[JerkassGodsrun]], Fae]][[JerkassGods run]], ladies and gentlemen!
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** My guess is, they get a pass. Can't worship a god if you don't know gods exist.
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** My guess is, they get a pass. Can't worship a god if you don't know gods exist.exist.
*** Except they don't. Souls that don't worship a god go right in to the wall, even if they were the kindest person in existence. So essentially, genocidal monsters that pay lip-service to a god can still go to a comfortable afterlife, while the most noble being in existence can have his very existence painfully erased over thousands of years of torture, for not worshipping gods he or she didn't even know existed. [[CrapsackWorld Fae]][[JerkassGodsrun]], ladies and gentlemen!
*** Except they don't. Souls that don't worship a god go right in to the wall, even if they were the kindest person in existence. So essentially, genocidal monsters that pay lip-service to a god can still go to a comfortable afterlife, while the most noble being in existence can have his very existence painfully erased over thousands of years of torture, for not worshipping gods he or she didn't even know existed. [[CrapsackWorld Fae]][[JerkassGodsrun]], ladies and gentlemen!
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** This troper would like to remind you that, in some cases, a deity can speak up for a soul that they particularly liked but no one had claimed, and that demons and devils both can harvest souls from the wall (devils orderly, demons in huge raids that would make the {{Warhammer 40000}} Orks proud). So some of the Abeirians may have been rescued by the likes of Sune or Ilmater.
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** This troper would like to remind you that, in some cases, a deity can speak up for a soul that they particularly liked but no one had claimed, and that demons and devils both can harvest souls from the wall (devils orderly, demons in huge raids that would make the {{Warhammer 40000}} Orks proud). So some of the Abeirians may have been rescued by the likes of Sune or Ilmater.Ilmater.
** My guess is, they get a pass. Can't worship a god if you don't know gods exist.
** My guess is, they get a pass. Can't worship a god if you don't know gods exist.
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** This troper would like to remind you that, in some cases, a deity can speak up for a soul that they particularly liked but no one had claimed, and that demons and devils both can harvest souls from the wall (devils orderly, demons in huge raids that would make the WH40K Orks proud). So some of the Abeirians may have been rescued by the likes of Sune or Ilmater.
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** This troper would like to remind you that, in some cases, a deity can speak up for a soul that they particularly liked but no one had claimed, and that demons and devils both can harvest souls from the wall (devils orderly, demons in huge raids that would make the WH40K {{Warhammer 40000}} Orks proud). So some of the Abeirians may have been rescued by the likes of Sune or Ilmater.
