History Fridge / DragonBallZ

4th Sep '17 7:43:31 AM IndirectActiveTransport
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Alternative universes still exist though, 17 would have still become a ranger and very likely had a family. That said, his family wasn't anywhere near him when the Super 17 fusion happen, so they'd probably be upset about losing a father/husband, but would not be harmed by him.



*** They do mention having created a cure for that virus in Trunk's time, which is why Trunks was able to give him such a cure in the first place, so it probably was a dangerous virus that killed a lot of people if they bothered to go out of their make a cure for it while a bunch of omnicidal androids were running around destroying entire cities. I'd say it's very likely that Saiyans long since developed some sort of super artificial immune system to protect their warriors and infants from most diseases they could potentially come across, as they would have been pretty useless for conquering planets otherwise. Perhaps it needs to be renewed every few years or something, thus Goku still gets infected with the heart virus and subsequently killed by it while the Saiyans back then would have still "had their shots" as it were, thus the extinction virus was useless.

to:

*** They do mention having created a cure for that virus in Trunk's time, which is why Trunks was able to give him such a cure in the first place, so it probably was a dangerous virus that killed a lot of people if they bothered to go out of their way make a cure for it while a bunch of omnicidal androids were running around destroying entire cities. I'd say it's very likely that Saiyans long since developed some sort of super artificial immune system to protect their warriors and infants from most diseases they could potentially come across, as they would have been pretty useless for conquering planets otherwise. Perhaps it needs to be renewed every few years or something, thus Goku still gets infected with the heart virus and subsequently killed by it while the Saiyans back then would have still "had their shots" as it were, thus the extinction virus was useless.



*** In this setting, "Pure" does not mean "good". Pure good can exist, but pure means "unclouded". Goku is mostly good, but not pure good. He's capable of being selfish and vindictive. What he isn't is inherently malicious, deceptive, indecisive or self questioning. He's good because he doesn't seek to cause harm he himself wouldn't find deserving in reversal, but he's pure just through consistency with lack of ulterior motives. PureIsNotGood explains more.
*** Also keep in mind Babadi didn't immediately identify Vegeta as a viable target until Dabura pointed out, and even he did not immediately realize it. It is entirely possible Gohan's capacity for cruelty if angered enough would also make him a target, assuming of course said tendency wasn't driven out of him from the trauma of his father's death. And it definitely would have been harder to find, much less exploit, than Vegeta's purely selfish and resentful desire to be evil again.



** Given that everyone in that verse has access to capsule that can contain an entire armory, a meca able to blow up town, and an exoskeleton that would make a Terminator blush and can basicaly become a space marine on super space steroids just by working out and meditating, it's actualy more surprising that we don't see MORE crime, especialy since the mondial army got slaughtered by Cell.

to:

** Given that everyone in that verse has access to capsule that can contain an entire armory, a meca able to blow up town, and an exoskeleton that would make a Terminator blush and can basicaly become a space marine on super space steroids just by working out and meditating, it's actualy actually more surprising that we don't see MORE crime, especialy especially since the mondial army got slaughtered by Cell.



* Roshi's perverted antics on Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z are played out for laughs, but then you stop and realize that this guy would secretly peep on your wife or teen daughter while she is showering in his house. He doesn't mind groping his ex-students' wives, Chi-Chi and Android 18. Plus, some of the females he flirted with were around 16.

to:

* Roshi's perverted antics on Dragon ''Dragon Ball'' and ''Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z Z'' are played out for laughs, but then you stop and realize that this guy would secretly peep on your wife or teen daughter while she is showering in his house. He doesn't mind groping his ex-students' wives, Chi-Chi and Android 18. Plus, some of the females he flirted with were around 16.



* One of Bulma's friends is Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman, whose job includes preventing ''any'' manipulation of time. While he's willing to bend the rules to save people (such as using an imperfect time machine to stop time for what someone inside the machine feels like 50 seconds so he'll be able to reach a falling spaceship, save the crew and kick it away where its explosion won't kill anyone), time travel is well beyond what he's allowed to tolerate. What's going to happen in the timelines where Future Trunks and Cell hail from when Jaco shows up?

to:

* One of Bulma's friends is Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman, whose job includes preventing ''any'' manipulation of time. While he's willing to bend the rules to save people (such as using an imperfect time machine to stop slow time for what someone inside the machine feels like 50 seconds so he'll be able to reach a falling spaceship, save the crew and kick it away where its explosion won't kill anyone), time travel is well beyond what he's allowed to tolerate. What's going to happen in the timelines where Future Trunks and Cell hail from when Jaco shows up?



** Goku's disease manifesting itself much later could be because he physically trained himself in preparation for the androids; physical exercise improves your immune system. It was also Trunks who took care of King Cold and Frieza; Goku stated that he already had sensed the two and were prepared to teleport to the battle ahead of time. It's likely the exertion of going Super Saiyan again and fighting off both King Cold and Frieza that accelerated his condition, causing the heart disease to manifest earlier.

to:

** Goku's disease manifesting itself much later could be because he physically trained himself in preparation for the androids; physical exercise improves your immune system. It was also Trunks who took care of King Cold and Frieza; Goku stated that he already had sensed the two and were was prepared to teleport to the battle ahead of time. It's likely the exertion of going Super Saiyan again and fighting off both King Cold and Frieza that accelerated his condition, causing the heart disease to manifest earlier.



* It used to bother me that in in the Buu saga the people competing in the martial arts tournaments are all such weaklings and people in general are so disbelieving in abilities like ki and energy attacks and easily accept Mr Satan's claims that its all a trick when in Dragonball those same abilities seemed much more widespread and known about. But then I realised that by the end of Dragonball it's pretty much just Goku and the other Z fighters who use those abilities and they basically disappear from the tournament scene until the Buu saga. All their adventures and battles take place in out of the way places or other planets and largely remain under the radar of the general public up til the Cell Saga. Also over the course of Dragonball Z nobody has sought out any of the Z fighters to train under them the way that Goku and Krillin sought out Master Roshi. So it's not surprising that by the time of the Buu knowledge about abilities like energy attacks and use of ki would have faded out of public consciousness and the techniques themselves fallen out of practice.

to:

** ''Dragon Ball Minus'' stated ''Goku's mother'', a big softie by saiyan standards, was against sending infants out on planetary extermination missions, which is why Goku and Raditz were so "old". Prince Vegeta had already been on them, as Bardock had described Vegeta as a "pain" in the neck partner.
* It used to bother me that in in the Buu saga the people competing in the martial arts tournaments are all such weaklings and people in general are so disbelieving in abilities like ki and energy attacks and easily accept Mr Satan's claims that its all a trick when in Dragonball before those same abilities seemed much more widespread and known about. But then I realised that by the end of Dragonball Piccolo saga it's pretty much just Goku and the other Z fighters who use those abilities and they basically disappear from the tournament scene until the Buu saga. All their adventures and battles take place in out of the way places or other planets and largely remain under the radar of the general public up til the Cell Saga. Also over the course of Dragonball Z nobody has sought out any of the Z fighters to train under them the way that Goku and Krillin sought out Master Roshi. So it's not surprising that by the time of the Buu knowledge about abilities like energy attacks and use of ki would have faded out of public consciousness and the techniques themselves fallen out of practice.



** Also {{foreshadowing}}. One of the works most cemented in PopCultureOsmosis as far as comparing Pan to The Devil is ''Literature/TheGreatGodPan''. Now, what was the super saiyan transformation that came after 3, not counting GT? How was that transformation achieved?



* It's been pointed out that despite the fact that Vegeta trains even harder than Goku, he can't quite catch up. This is contrasted with the irony that Vegeta was considered the natural prodigy as a child. However, when Goku first emerges from the Time Chamber during the Cell Saga, he explains that he was able to surpass Vegeta in less time because he trains ''better'' than Vegeta does; Vegeta tortures himself through rigorous but inefficient training methods because he doesn't know any better. He never needed to train very hard because of his natural aptitude, where as Goku was taught very effective training methods by Roshi, Kami, and King Kai.

to:

* It's been pointed out that despite the fact that Vegeta trains even harder than Goku, he can't quite catch up. This is contrasted with the irony that Vegeta was considered the natural prodigy as a child. However, when Goku first emerges from the Time Chamber during the Cell Saga, he explains that he was able to surpass Vegeta in less time because he trains ''better'' than Vegeta does; Vegeta tortures himself through rigorous but inefficient training methods because he doesn't know any better. He never needed to train very hard because of his natural aptitude, where as Goku was taught very effective training methods by Roshi, Korin, Kami, and King Kai.



** Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta, for example, made many techniques and weapons from ''Anime/DragonBall'' useless: Nimbus (not fast enough), the Power Pole (never used), the Multi Form technique (rendered useless by Nappa), and even the Kamehameha wave (only had effect when used in tandem with the kaioken). In other words, earthly martial arts just wouldn't cut it. So what did? Martial arts made by the gods, namely the Kaioken and the Spirit Bomb.

to:

** Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta, for example, made many techniques and weapons from ''Anime/DragonBall'' ''Manga/DragonBall'' useless: Nimbus (not fast enough), the Power Pole (never used), the Multi Form technique (rendered useless by Nappa), and even the Kamehameha wave (only had effect when used in tandem with the kaioken). In other words, earthly martial arts just wouldn't cut it. So what did? Martial arts made by the gods, namely the Kaioken and the Spirit Bomb.



** Specifically, Freeza doing it meant Beerus didn't have to travel the thirty minutes via Whis to do it himself. The point about the Galactic Patrol virus still stands.



* King Kai originally told Goku that planet Vegeta had been destroyed by its Guardian, or God in the original Japanese, had summoned a meteor to crush into it when the wicked ways of the Saiyans went too far. We later learned that it had actually been Frieza to destroy it... And even later, we learned that Beerus sped up his plans due king Vegeta keeping the most comfortable cushion in the universe for himself. A God ''did'' summon what destroyed planet Vegeta due the Saiyan doing something evil, just it wasn't the planet's god, it wasn't a meteor, and the evil was suicidally stupid pettiness.

to:

** Even without considering ''Episode Of Bardock'', not only is Freeza a creature who transforms, but all of the saiyans and at least three of his non saiyan employees also transform. Even without the ability to sense ki, he can probably recognize a legit transformation, and even though Freeza and Zarbon do it to contain (power and hideousness, respectively), Abo, Kado and all the saiyans do so to increase. Seeing a noticeable, visible change in a saiyan, no matter how subtle, would be likely to freak him out if he can't think of a way to explain it with something like tails or full moons.
* King Kai originally told Goku that planet Vegeta had been destroyed by its Guardian, or God in the original Japanese, had summoned a meteor to crush into it when the wicked ways of the Saiyans went too far. We later learned that it had actually been Frieza to destroy it... And even later, we learned that Beerus sped up his plans due king Vegeta keeping the most comfortable cushion in the universe for himself. A God ''did'' ''[[FromACertainPointOfView did]]'' summon what destroyed planet Vegeta due the Saiyan doing something evil, just it wasn't the planet's god, it wasn't a meteor, and the evil was suicidally stupid pettiness.




to:

* At first, Uub seems like a retread of Gohan. He's an unimpressive fighter with a lot of potential that only becomes apparent when he is enraged. But that was the entire point. Goku wasn't just given an opponent who mirrored his son, but unlike Gohan, who had all the resources and conditions necessary to become a great fighter but kept throwing it away to focus on more worldly pursuits, Uub doesn't have the opportunities to develop his talents because of harsh worldly realities until Goku give him relief. Goku loves his biological sons the way they are, but Uub is the son he mistakenly believed Gohan to be during the Cell saga. Gohan doesn't lose his head until someone he cares about gets hurt, Uub got into fight mode simply by being in front of an opponent he didn't like.



** Dende's also had a power up from Guru.



** Garlic Jr. gained immortality from the Dragon Balls. That is probably canon.

to:

** Garlic Jr. gained immortality from the Dragon Balls. That is probably canon.canon.
** Garlic Jr is not in continuity, but the dragons can outlive the creators of dragon balls, so maybe.
21st Jul '17 1:56:57 PM EDP
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* Raditz said that Nappa and Vegeta would take a year to arrive, yet they show up a month early. Was he wrong? No, he was just measuring time in either the old Saiyan way or by the PTO count, and in whatever system he was using a year is shorter than Earth's by about an Earth month.
17th Jul '17 10:37:24 PM Catalyst375
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* In the "Buu Saga", Majin Buu displays the ability of healing very early on, which starkly contrasts from Buu's nature as we were told up to that point - a merciless, destructive force of nature. The brilliance comes in when you realize later on that Buu's healing ability was {{Foreshadowing}} of the fact that he had absorbed two Supreme Kai in the past, with Kibito demonstrating healing abilities in the same arc.
16th Jul '17 4:48:41 AM EDP
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* At the start of the series Bulma is shown actually scared of ''Goku'' when Raditz reveals they're both Saiyan. As ''Manga/JacoTheGalacticPatrolman'' establishes she had known of the Saiyan for years, she has just realized that her best friend had come to Earth to wipe everyone out.
3rd Jul '17 1:04:19 PM EDP
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The 25th Tenkaichi Budokai shows some differences from the previous tournaments we've seen (21st, 22nd and 23rd), namely a 30 minutes time limit, the preliminaries disputed via the Punching Machine to prevent injuries, and a greater commercialization (shown by the larger stadium and the previously absent television broadcast), all of them apparently coming out of nowhere. Thing is, those very three tournaments are the reason for the new rules: the superhuman fighters of those tournaments proved themselves capable of fighting for hours, with the final match of the 21st tournament taking ''four hours'', hence the time limit due the fighting being scheduled to happen in a single day; the 23rd Tenkaichi saw [[{{Sadist}} Tao Pai Pai]] almost killing Chiaotzu and, [[{{Jerkass}} considering his character]], he likely did the same to anyone who fought him in the preliminaries, hence the Punching Machine made specifically to prevent injuries in the preliminaries; the greater commercialization was made necessary by the heavy damage caused in those three tournaments, where, aside from contestants randomly breaking the walls by sending others flying into it (and Panput doing it on purpose [[UnderestimatingBadassery he thought Goku was too weak to face him]] and [[PetTheDog didn't want to beat up a child]]), Goku in Great Ape form caused heavy damage to one of the buildings, Tien disintegrated the ring, and Piccolo ''annihilated the whole place'', necessitating the commercialization to raise the money and rebuild the whole place for the 24th Tenkaichi .

to:

* The 25th Tenkaichi Budokai shows some differences from the previous tournaments we've seen (21st, 22nd and 23rd), namely a 30 minutes time limit, the preliminaries disputed via the Punching Machine to prevent injuries, and a greater commercialization (shown by the larger stadium and the previously absent television broadcast), all of them apparently coming out of nowhere. Thing is, those very three tournaments are the reason for the new rules: the superhuman fighters of those tournaments proved themselves capable of fighting for hours, with the final match of the 21st tournament taking ''four hours'', hence the time limit due the fighting being scheduled to happen in a single day; the 23rd Tenkaichi saw [[{{Sadist}} Tao Pai Pai]] almost killing Chiaotzu and, [[{{Jerkass}} considering his character]], he likely did the same to anyone who fought him in the preliminaries, preliminaries (in fact the anime ''shows'' him beating a preliminary opponent so bad he needed hospitalization. Even Piccolo at his most evil was showing more restraint), hence the Punching Machine made specifically to prevent injuries in the preliminaries; the greater commercialization was made necessary by the heavy damage caused in those three tournaments, where, aside from contestants randomly breaking the walls by sending others flying into it (and Panput doing it on purpose [[UnderestimatingBadassery he thought Goku was too weak to face him]] and [[PetTheDog didn't want to beat up a child]]), Goku in Great Ape form caused heavy damage to one of the buildings, Tien disintegrated the ring, and Piccolo ''annihilated the whole place'', necessitating the commercialization to raise the money and rebuild the whole place for the 24th Tenkaichi .
18th Apr '17 6:20:29 PM darkcloud1111
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Another possibility is that in Trunk's original timeline, Dr. Gero spent more time programming the androids, resulting in their hatred for humanity as a whole and leading to them being more psychotic. In the main timeline, Dr. Gero turned himself into an android and worked on other projects as well, including Android 16 and 19, seeing 17 and 18 as being too unstable. This could explain why they aren't as evil in the main timeline, as their programming wasn't complete and Dr. Gero only activated them as a last resort.
5th Apr '17 12:14:16 PM Thecommander236
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Can the Dragon Balls even GRANT immortality? The characters all seem to assume that they can, but Dragon Balls can't grant wishes that are beyond the power of their creator, and both Kami and the Grand Elder are mortal (indeed, both are slowly dying of old age). Vegeta didn't know about the limits when he came up with his plan (and the other characters heard about it from him and may have assumed he knew what he was talking about), so his plan might have been doomed from the start.

to:

** Can the Dragon Balls even GRANT immortality? The characters all seem to assume that they can, but Dragon Balls can't grant wishes that are beyond the power of their creator, and both Kami and the Grand Elder are mortal (indeed, both are slowly dying of old age). Vegeta didn't know about the limits when he came up with his plan (and the other characters heard about it from him and may have assumed he knew what he was talking about), so his plan might have been doomed from the start.start.
** Garlic Jr. gained immortality from the Dragon Balls. That is probably canon.
5th Apr '17 12:11:37 PM Thecommander236
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Burter, of the Ginyu Force, has the claim to fame of being the fastest being in the universe, and is utterly shocked when Goku completely outclasses him in terms of speed. Problem being that the initial claim is complete nonsense. Ginyu himself is able to hold his own with Goku putting considerably more effort into it than he did with Burter, showing that he was faster than his subordinate. And of course, Frieza is faster by far. The fact that Burter makes the assertion could be seen as sad posturing(an explanation DBZ Abridged seems to go with), but the fact that he's so shocked by Goku's speed when by all rights he should know that being faster than him is in no way, shape, or form a physical impossibility pushes the issue onto this page.

to:

* Burter, of the Ginyu Force, has the claim to fame of being the fastest being in the universe, and is utterly shocked when Goku completely outclasses him in terms of speed. Problem being that the initial claim is complete nonsense. Ginyu himself is able to hold his own with Goku putting considerably more effort into it than he did with Burter, showing that he was faster than his subordinate. And of course, Frieza is faster by far. The fact that Burter makes the assertion could be seen as sad posturing(an posturing (an explanation DBZ Abridged seems to go with), but the fact that he's so shocked by Goku's speed when by all rights he should know that being faster than him is in no way, shape, or form a physical impossibility pushes the issue onto this page.


Added DiffLines:

** Besides that, no one he faces would KNOW that there are faster guys out there unless they needed to get directly involved, so it could just be an intimidation tactic. Given how childish the Ginyu Force is in general, this makes sense.
5th Apr '17 12:06:07 PM Thecommander236
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* It occurred to me recently that a major theme of the show is actually summed up when Mr. Popo tells Yamcha that he should learn "that you are weak." Humility is the key to getting stronger. People who won't admit that they're not the best and ask for help can't advance. Vegeta is the prime example of this: a prodigy who constantly lags behind Goku because he won't ask anyone to teach him, while Goku picks up knowledge and technique from everyone he meets. This actually made Mr. Satan a much more interesting character: He's probably about as strong as Krillin was when Radditz arrived, and could learn ki attacks with a few lessons from his daughter or son-in-law...but, his pride keeps him from asking, leaving him stuck where he is...

to:

* It occurred to me recently that a major theme of the show is actually summed up when Mr. Popo tells Yamcha that he should learn "that you are weak." Humility is the key to getting stronger. People who won't admit that they're not the best and ask for help can't advance. Vegeta is the prime example of this: a prodigy who constantly lags behind Goku because he won't ask anyone to teach him, while Goku picks up knowledge and technique from everyone he meets. This actually made Mr. Satan a much more interesting character: He's probably about as strong as Krillin was when Radditz arrived, and could learn ki attacks with a few lessons from his daughter or son-in-law... but, his pride keeps him from asking, leaving him stuck where he is...
5th Apr '17 11:37:16 AM Thecommander236
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** From what we, the audience, knows of the story, it's more likely that Piccolo had LimaSyndrome and had a legitimate HeelFaceTurn. From the Z-Fighters perspective, Piccolo's training WAS essential for Gohan's survival AND Gohan's involvement prevented Krillin from being killed (as well as the rest of the planet for that matter), so it's understandable that the Z-fighters would want to revive Piccolo as well as gratitude even if his initial intentions weren't pure. Plus, sacrificing his life for his "pawn" wasn't very out-of-character for Piccolo in the eyes of the Z-Fighters and showed them that Piccolo had changed for the better. Given that Gohan had no intention of carrying on Piccolo's "world domination" plan after the latter's death, it's also clear that he didn't taint the kid's mind. Even if Gohan was the stronger of the two, Piccolo's plan to save Gohan obviously wasn't to have Gohan finish his evil plan. Given ALL of that, their willingness to revive him makes sense especially since it's later confirmed by Grand Kai that Piccolo was deemed good enough to be allowed to train with him which is, by definition, a privilege that isn't given to those whose ultimate intentions are evil. Finally, it would be a HUGE stretch to consider the idea that Piccolo was planning to be resurrected by the Namakian Dragon Balls because of how much a GambitRoulette that would be. If that was the idea, it would have been easier to just let Gohan get killed so that Piccolo could resurrect Gohan with the Earth's Dragon Balls. All that being said, when Piccolo later claims that his plan to conquer the world in the Cell Saga instantly convinces Yamcha that he's a snake. It COULD be conceivable that people would see this claim as proof that Piccolo was only pretending to be an ally to lull them into a false sense of security, but then again, if that was true then Piccolo wouldn't have been: 1) deemed good by King Yemma, 2) he would have betrayed the group earlier, and 3) he definitely isn't stupid enough to start screaming about his true traitorous intentions. Krillin, correctly, prostrates that Piccolo is just invasive and hostile because he realizes that Piccolo just can't admit that he needs Kami's help.
This list shows the last 10 events of 224. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Fridge.DragonBallZ