I used to think the heart virus Goku contracted during the Android saga, the one that killed him in Future Trunk's time, was just a regular heart virus. Then I got to thinking. Goku isn't a normal human. He's a Saiyan, a Super Saiyan, a guy that knocked Frieza out in minutes. And this super elite warrior was taken down by a heart virus? Just how nasty was this virus, because I doubt he would've fallen if it were a regular virus found on Earth. What if he had contracted a deadly alien disease while he was in space, one that attacks the heart and is unlike anything found on Earth? That would explain why there wasn't a cure for the virus Goku got, not until Future Trunks gave such a cure to him. Had it been an Earth-born virus, Goku probably wouldn't even have noticed it.
Nope. Regular old virus. Having a lot of ki protects you from things that hit hard, and to a much, much lesser extent, heat. It doesn't protect from anything else. And saiyan biology is nearly identical to human biology, so there is no reason Goku would be immune, or even especially resistant, to a disease that is deadly to humans. Not to mention that in the entire series, Goku is the only character to ever get sick. There is also the matter of the different timing of the sickness in the two timelines. In the future timeline, he got sick shortly after returning to Earth, but in the present timeline, he got sick 3 years later. Since viruses have very consistent incubation periods, that means he had to contract the virus on Earth, because he had no alien contact after he got back.
You make a number of excellent points, but one thing I wanted to point out is that some viruses become dormant for extended periods of time, only to "trigger" later. Taking into account time travel resulting in alternate timelines and thus numerous variations and how some viruses are fully capable of immediate infection and prolonged, lysogenic-cycle dormancy, it is possible that the virus was extra-terrestrial.
It actually make perfect sense that even a Super Saiyan can be brought down by an ordinary virus, because of how viruses work. Viruses are parasitic DNA that attach themselves to that of their hosts. No amount of strength can save you from that because in a sense the virus is a part of you. The only way to get rid of them is for the body's immune system to kill off the infected cells, indeed that's what causes the most damage. Not all viruses are malevolent, plenty are perfectly willing to just harmlessly ride along in their hosts DNA (some are even useful, a virus was likely responsible for the evolution of the mammalian placenta) but the body can't tell the difference. Goku was still just as vulnerable to the virus because it was causing him to be eaten alive by his own immune systems.
Ah, I see, I see. Thanks for the clarification. I just assumed because Goku was a Saiyan, he was immuned to Earth-borne diseases and viruses.
Were it not for Goku, Gohan, or Future Trunks, the universe would easily have become an example of a Cosmic Horror Story. Think about it - you've got the Saiyans, which are capable of killing thousands without breaking a sweat, a conglomerate of immensely powerful aliens who employ the Saiyans that kill native populations for real estate purposes, an Android that is even more powerful than that, and you've got an Ax-Crazy, Omnicidal Maniac obsessed with destroying planets that ate a god. The kicker is that militias of the world are shown being completely inneffective against these threats.
Even the galactic police are incapable of dealing with these monsters. Let this sink in for a minute: Before Frieza blew up Planet Vegeta, a highly advanced civilization tried to wipe out the Saiyans with a biological weapon because they were deemed too dangerous to live. The Saiyans gave the bio-weapon a No Sell, and the Saiyans in question were downright WEAK in comparison to these monsters, with even King Vegeta and his royal guard being effortlessly defeated by first-form Frieza.
Of course, the fact that a biological weapon explicitly intended to cause extinctions couldn't wipe out the Saiyans, but a virus that Goku came down with could kill even a Super Saiyan, makes you wonder just what that virus is. Maybe the Androids weren't really the ones responsible for nearly wiping out humanity in Trunk's time, but rather that virus that killed Goku.
Fusion is a bit a fridge horror depending on the circumstances. Now with Vegetto, Gogeta, and Gotenks the merges are depicted as harmonious. The Fused being in those cases view themselves as a separate entity from the original fusees. However, when Shin and Kibito fused as well as Shin's ancestor Kai and the witch it wasn't harmonious. Kibitoshin is essentially a taller Shin and the Elder Kai is simply that. What happened to Kibito and the witch?
For Old Kai we aren't really shown what he or was like before their fusion, the 2 before and after fusing could be barely any different people for all we know. As for Kibito, from what we see of him it seems like he's pretty much Supreme Kai's sycophantic yes man, he does whatever Supreme Kai wants without question, so the idea that after being fused that Kibito would be taking anywhere near as much control over the fused body that Supreme Kai does is pretty ridiculous. In short, Kibito's probably still there, but he's content letting the Supreme Kai call the shots. It's probably the same reason why Kibito Kai doesn't use the fusion voice either, it's anyone's guess why Old Kai doesn't.
Makes sense, IIRC Kibito Kai is occasionally referred to as the Supreme Kai as well. It might just be Kibito's humility. Though it's strange that the two fused Kaioushin in the show are both depicted as dominant fusees.
It's entirely possible that because the Kais are so high above their fuse partners, that they ended up the dominant one in the mix.
There is a problem from a Filler where Buu (after killing everyone on Earth and destroying the planet) also destroyed at least one other planet with intelligent life on it. Later, they wish Earth back into existence and then revive every good person killed by Buu. Fridge Horror when you realize all those Aliens who were brought back to life... only to be floating in space to die horribly again.
Furthermore, there are all those islands Cell blew up when looking for 18. When the people inhabiting those islands were revived, they'd just reappear in the middle of the ocean, and presumably drown.
When the others gathered the Dragon Balls after the Cell Games, they wished for everyone killed by Cell to come back to life... leaving all those killed before by Vegeta and Dr. Gero dead.
Some of the OVA movies are set in an alternate timeline, where Goku got to the battle with Vegeta and Nappa earlier so that none of the Z-Fighters died, and therefore they never made the trip to Namek. This means that nobody was around to stop Frieza, who presumably wiped out the remaining Namekians.
But if none of the Z-Fighters died, they would have no reason to plan a trip to Namek, meaning Frieza never overheard their plans to go, meaning he never went there, either.
Still leaves Frieza with his galaxy-spanning empire where he's free to kill and destroy anyone he comes across, and might end up on Namek eventually anyway.
Boss Rabbit was left on the moon after he was defeated. A little later Roshi blows up the moon, presumably with the rabbits still living on it.
The Capsules. Ranging from practical (cars and house), to threatening (Launch being able to carry an entire armory of guns in her POCKET) to more horrific things like being able to hide dead bodies inside capsules (as Bulma does to Krillin after his first death, and later Master Roshi and Chiaotzu. If Bulma can easily place Krillin's body in a freezer capsule, turn the freezer into a capsule with HIM inside, you have to wonder how many potential unsolved murders there are. Presumably you could hide LIVING people inside a capsule. If not by simply pressing the button with them inside while they're alive, killing them, placing the body in a capsule, shrinking the capsule, and then resurrecting them with the Dragon Balls, without taking the body out. Given the accessibility of capsules in-universe, this could be done just about ANY DAY of the week.
Let's also consider the thought that not only could the capsules hold a living person, but multiple people. One person could carry an entire gang of armed soldiers into any place they want.
What would happen if someone ate a capsule?
In the Buu saga, Videl accidentally kicked an opponent's head so hard it snapped his neck. Now remember she's on the weak end of the cast, with even the little kids far exceeding her power. You start to realize just how much power these characters have and are holding back.
This isn't as much of a shock when you remember that most of the characters have been able to cause an Earth-Shattering Kaboom three arcs ago.
The filler before the Cell Games seem like Heart Warming moments... until you realize that Goku's putting the entire fate of the world on his own son, who a) might not be able to gather up enough energy to destroy Cell, and b) might not even want to fight Cell!! This, after he told everyone that even he would be utterly destroyed by Cell! He was really, really lucky Gohan was able to do both (a) and (b) otherwise the world would have been really, really screwed.
Goku already knew long before they ever even fought that he was no match for Cell, otherwise Goku probably would have just beaten Cell himself and called it a day. His Batman Gambit with Gohan was just a last ditch effort to win.
But it was still reckless. How did he think Gohan could defeat Cell?
Goku was expecting Gohan to go berserk like he always did when he got angry in the past and attack until Cell stopped moving. Goku implied going into the Room of Spirit and Time a second time wouldn't have given them the same results as their first trip, which explains why Vegeta and Trunks were still weaker than Goku and Gohan after their second trip into the room. Goku's plan is still reckless, but there was some logic to his reasoning.
Goku knew that Gohan was powerful enough to beat Cell (see when Gohan snaps when Raditz attacks and his power level exceeds Raditz's own), it was just a matter of getting him to draw it out, which Gohan very nearly failed to do, and he nearly payed for it with his life (Gohan's inner power is seemingly awakened not by his own peril, but by the peril fscin his friends and family, which explains why Cell nearly crushing him was not nearly effective as Cell going after all the friends he's ever known). When Piccolo points out that Gohan is NOT the Blood Knight that the full-blooded Saiyans are, Goku suitably has a My God, What Have I Done? moment as he's watching Cell beat Gohan to death.
If you go back and watch the episode in which Gohan becomes a Super Saiyan, Goku is going far too easy on Gohan, and not truly pushing his limits. When Gohan calls him out on this and demands that Goku test his limits, Goku obliges and Gohan becomes a Super Saiayan as a result. In Goku's mind (remember, Goku's not the most responsible parent), he is fulfilling Gohan's wish to be tested by letting him take on Cell alone. When you combine this though with the fact that, as far as Gokus knows, Gohan's going to hit rage mode at any second, his decision makes a bit more sense.
Goku begged Krillin to let Vegeta escape the earth. Depending on which version you're watching, he did this either (1) because he is good-hearted and wasn't willing to let Krillin kill a helpless, defeated opponent; or (2) because he is so psychopathically self-absorbed that he was willing to jeopardize the lives of billions of people just so he could have the excitement of a rematch. Either way, he is essentially an accessory to genocide, given what Vegeta does on the planet Namek.
Well, in his defense, he didn't know about Namek then, but you're right. Him letting Vegeta go effectively signed the potential death certificate of countless billions. Good thing Vegeta had a change of heart near the end of the Namek saga (well, after he had helped to commit genocide, that is)
When you really think about it, Goku (by Saiyan standards) is retarded.
Well, hitting your soft, squishy baby head on something hard tends to have long-term effects well into adulthood.
Consider how Goku is a tactical genius, despite being retarded and/or brain-damaged by Saiyan standards. Imagine what he'd be like if he wasn't. (Yes, I know that it's entirely because he hit his head that he became kind-hearted enough to be pure good and unlock the power of the Super Saiyan. Just hypothesize about what he'd be like if he hadn't hit his head, but unlocked all the forms he gets in the series anyways. He'd pretty much be unstoppable.)
Being pure hearted had nothing to do with becoming a super saiyan. That's some dub crap. Also, Goku is a classic case of a savant. A serious head injury hinders him in day to day life, but gives him unmatched talent within a single, specific area (in his case, fighting). Had Goku not hit his head, he probably would have never been more than an average saiyan. Unless his brother is a good indication of his potential, in which case he'd be a low end elite.
In the Buu arc the Supreme Kai casually explains that all the Supreme Kais could easily kill Frieza. This means that he not only knew who Frieza was, but how powerful he was. Basically, he allowed Frieza to destroy and enslave planets and races, fully aware that he could have stopped all of this, but decided not to do anything. The Supreme Kais did actually try to stop Buu, who was destroying the universe. Buu traveled to Other World in the anime and fought and killed the Kais. This means that the noble Kais only actually fought Buu to save their own skin and that they don't care about the mortal world at all. It would explain why the last Supreme Kai left Frieza do 'whatever he liked.'
Almost makes you want to root for Buu, if he hadn't gone and destroyed the Earth first.
I always assumed the Kais operated under a policy of non-interference unless the fate of reality itself/the whole universe was at stake. With power like theirs, which is equally on the same level as Cell saga Gohan, they could quite accidentally cause more damage they they could prevent by descending from Otherworld to fight Freiza.
Spopovich beating Videl to a pulp is bad enough on its own, but then you remember Gohan's traumatic childhood. He was probably having flashbacks to Nappa killing his friends. In light of that, it's a wonder he was able to contain his anger long enough to stop the match, rather than just going Super Saiyan 2 and killing Spopovich on the spot.
Gohan. No, seriously, Gohan is fridge horror embodied. It had been made extremely clear from the get go that he had this deep, untapped power hidden within him that is unleashed when he's in a fit of pure, unadulterated rage. When he finally became a SS 2, he becomes cold and borderline psychotic, wanting to torture Cell for The Evulz instead of just finishing him off. Ask yourself this, what would happen had Babadi found this in Gohan and decided to extract that out along with a power-up? An evil Majin Gohan with all his untapped rage hidden with him would have been absolutely terrifying. We're lucky it was Vegeta that became Majin...
Except that Gohan still didn't have any evil in his heart. Sure, Gohan was psychotic at the time; but a mental imbalance does not prove one is evil. Vegeta had evil in his heart because all of the cruel acts he did for sport and the thrill of the hunt as he called it, and he did it for pleasure. Gohan, on the other hand, was blinded by rage towards Cell- since his super saiyan 2 form was triggered by his sheer emotional distress, and in the heat of his emotions, he fought Cell in what he felt was the most cathartic way; by making him suffer. This was much like how Goku wanted to slaughter Freiza when he first became a Super Saiyan.
He's not evil, but remember, Babidi can take the slightest drop of darkness within someone's heart and make that person a slave. Although perhaps Gohan would've been more difficult to control than Vegeta (or even Piccolo) a Majin Gohan would certainly be a much more major threat given that- as stated above- he's mentally unstable. Spopovitch and Yamu weren't technically "evil" when they were controlled, Babidi just chose to exploit that one dark aspect of their hearts (Spopovitch's jealousy of Mr Satan for example) and if he can take something as petty as jealousy and make a murderous servant out of it, then I'm pretty sure Gohan had potential to be a villain as well.
Dogs don't have a very lifespan, so what will Good Buu do when Bee dies? How will he react?
Assuming Bee died a natural death, and Buu still has Hercule, I imagine he'd just go through the usual grieving process anyone would when losing a pet. What made him snap the first time was (a) he had Evil Buu inside him and (b) it was the sudden bombardment of cruelty from, surprisingly, regular humans who attacked them twice, nearly killing both Bee and Hercule in the process.
In Satan City, crime is apparently so rampant that Videl, a teenage girl, is called in because she's very good at martial arts. And while this could be just for plot convenience, Gohan comes across a crime almost every time he goes to school!
From an outsiders perspective, it would look like Gohan had gotten Stockholm Syndrome after the Saiyan Saga. He was kidnapped by someone everyone knew to be evil, with the intention of using him to conquer the world. But a year later, Gohan comes back and tells everyone that he's now a good guy, and he wants to risk his life to go into space just to bring him back to life, without any evidence to confirm that Piccolo is good. No wonder Chi-Chi didn't want Gohan leaving!
However, Krillin saw Piccolo die, so he could vouch for Gohan if no one believed him. Granted, they'll just think Piccolo only saved him because he was useful to Piccolo's 'world domination' plan.
When Vegeta says he's "known stronger houseplants" than Hercule Satan at first it sounds like typical Vegeta talk, but remember Vegeta was held in bondage by Frieza nearly his whole life. During that time he conquered thousands of planets and killed entire civilizations so maybe there was a planet whose populace had some form of plantlife to safeguard their homes.
Or maybe he actually fought Plant People who managed to put up a decent fight.
This is from the Bardock special so it's place in cannon is dubious, but wasn't Vegeta (the planet) known as Plant before the Saiyans came?
One word. Saibamen.
This troper hasn't seen DBZ in a while so please forgive any mistakes. If this troper recalls, 16 wasn't able to be wished back for whatever reason, perhaps because he was pure machine. Does this imply that he's soulless? Because if he could think, and feel, what makes his physiology any different from any of the aliens we saw in Other World? Does this mean 16 was only simulating the emotions according to glitchy programming, rather than experiencing them on the same spectrum as a human? Really makes this more Fridge Depression rather than Fridge Horror.
It's not canon but, one of the guidebooks says #16 was revived, and he went to live with #8. From a canon perspective, though, #16 wasn't revived simply because he wasn't alive to begin with. The gang specifically wished for all those killed by Cell to be revived, but #16, not being alive in the first place, was never killed by Cell. He would have been revived by a wish to restore everything destroyed by Cell, though, if they had thought to fix all the property damage Cell caused instead of removing some bombs that Bulma could have taken care of anyway.
When Vegeta says that he succeeded in having becoming a Super Saiyan because his heart is pure evil, he may have just been exaggerating for intimidation purposes— and instead, what was pure was his determination to win. Which makes more sense for his character anyway, since his determination at the end of Z is so great that it manages to scare Majin Buu because he refuses to give up or stay down, to a level that exceeds even Goku's own determinator status.
While Supreme Kai's assertion that any of them could've killed Freezer makes them come off as dicks, consider how little it would actually solve; Freezer's the most active leader of the Planet Trade Organization, true, but he's not the only one, and as we see later, even killing the colds (King Cold, Freezer, Cooler) would only result in throwing the organization into disarray; countless people fighting for dominance over the most powerful group in the known universe. Whether an acceptable state of affairs or not, leaving an interstellar organizationthat are the closest to universal lawmakers, and peacekeepers in place is better than fighting it violently, and the Supreme Kai realized this.
Trunks remarks that none of the stuff he predicted (apart from where Goku would land) was true; even the pair of androids who arrived at where he predicted was just a coincidence (they weren't the same androids he expected). He theorizes that it's due to time travel inherently messing with the timeline, however there are subtle hints he himself was responsible:
Goku's disease manifesting itself much later could be because he physically trained himself in preparation for the androids; physical exercise improves your immune system. It was also Trunks who took care of King Cold and Frieza; Goku stated that he already had sensed the two and were prepared to teleport to the battle ahead of time. It's likely the exertion of going Super Saiyan again and fighting off both King Cold and Frieza that accelerated his condition, causing the heart disease to manifest earlier.
Except Goku is shown training as a super saiyan with Piccolo and Gohan, for 3 years straight. Also, physical exercise doesn't push back the onset of a disease you have already been exposed to. The only difference is that Goku was exposed later, probably because he isolated himself training, instead of going on adventures like he used to do.
And this is possibly where Gero changed the power levels of the Androids; In Trunk's Timeline Goku would have arrived on earth and would have fought a bloody battle with Frieza. As Cell has Frieza's cells, this means that Gero was, on some level, aware of the battle. He then must have known that the Mechanical Bodies he built for himself and 19 would be pointless, as Goku was clearly above their power level even before training and instead went to tweak on 17 and 18 more. In the main timeline, Goku never fought in it and the battle itself lasted too short for Gero to collect any meaningful data (Frieza and King Cold both got obliterated to ash, as oppose to possibly leaving behind corpses for Gero to collect and study). And the reason why 17 and 18 are weaker in Trunk's timeline? Gero always makes his androids powerful (as evident with 16 being the most powerful despite being the earliest one) and tone down from there. Gero, knowing his own #20 Mechanical body would not suffice, instead opted to tone down 17 and 18's power to manageable levels (which still predictably failed).
Gero stated he stopped watching Goku after the fight with Vegeta. the computer was the one handling the Cell project, not Gero. We also only have the word of a single fighter that never actually saw the androids fight at full power that there is any power difference at all. similarly, he was a baby when the androids appeared. For all we know, Vegeta handled #19 in the future, and then Gero activated #17 and #18, just like in the present.
Finally, as to why the Androids are different; all of them have the objective of killing Goku, but as Goku is already dead by their activation, they really had no other goals; 16 (if he was activated) would have probably wandered into the woods to live a peaceful life with the animals. 16 also acted as a sort of morality chain for the two, usually advising against really heinous behavior of the two. Without him, the two went off the hook (especially 17, who even in the main timeline seemed to like carnage).
#16 never advised the other 2 on anything. He just refused to fight himself. The androids just (eventually) went off the deep end, because no one was there to stop them.
Vegeta never really gets revenge for everything Frieza ever did to him but Frieza and his father were ultimately killed by Vegeta's son.
At first, it seems rather odd that Majin Buu's original, primal form is so... small compared to the rest. But then you remember: Buu was created by Bibidi. And Bibidi's species are puny little shrimps compared to humans, Saiyans, and the like, with the adult Babidi being the same size - or smaller - as a 7-year-old human child. To shrimpy little Bibidi, the ~5-foot Kid Buu would be tall and imposing!
Why is Goku such a neglectful parent? It's literally In the Blood: Saiyans (or at least low-ranking ones), from what we're shown, are basically sent off to other planets as infants, with no time to spend with their parents. It's questionable whether pure-blooded Saiyans even have a childhood phase, seeing how they're expected to start conquering the planet shortly after landing. While Prince Vegeta suggests this isn't always the case, it's possible that he got special treatment for being a prince (or at the very least, for being high-ranked). Tarble being banished for being too kind-hearted supports this. Add in the fact that Goku was Raised by Wolves, and he quite literally does not know how to be a parent.
It used to bother me that in in the Buu saga the people competing in the martial arts tournaments are all such weaklings and people in general are so disbelieving in abilities like ki and energy attacks and easily accept Mr Satans claims that its all a trick when in Dragonball those same abilities seemed much more widespread and known about. But then I realised that by the end of Dragonball its pretty much just Goku and the other Z fighters who use those abilities and they basically disappear from the tournament scene until the Buu saga. All their adventures and battles take place in out of the way places or other planets and largely remain under the radar of the general public up til the cell saga. Also over the course of Dragonball Z nobody has sought out any of the Z fighters to train under them the way that Goku and Krillin sought out master Roshi. So its not surprising that by the time of the Buu knowledge about abilities like energy attacks and use of ki would have faded out of public consciousness and the techniques themselves fallen out of practice.
Plus, Mr. Satan's claiming that it was all tricks and special effects might have helped people to further dismiss the notion of ki and supernatural martial arts abilities as being real, as they would have then looked back on any stories or recordings/accountings about such things as people falling for an old con, rather than actual evidence of its existence.
Pan's name - on the one hand, a pan as in 'frying pan' fits well with the series' food-related theme naming. But also, a pan is a type of flute, like a piccolo. So Gohan named his kid after his mentor, too.
Pan is also a religious figure often associated with the devil. As in Mark "Hercule Satan", and Videl.
Most importantly "Pan" is Japanese for "Bread"
Gohan and Piccolo were both people who initially just wanted to be like their fathers, only to realise that the life their fathers had wasn't the life they wanted to live.