History EvenEvilHasStandards / TabletopGames

* This is how some people view the LawfulEvil [[CharacterAlignment alignment]] in ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons''. He may kill babies, assassinate kings, and plot to take over the world, but many an LawfulEvil villain will never engage in wanton slaughter to no purpose and will never break his word. That being said, there is nothing to prevent a LawfulEvil from engaging in PragmaticVillainy and finding minimal pretense to do the above ("I won't slaughter these villagers ForTheEvulz, I need living space for my more important countrymen"). Furthermore there is nothing to prevent the NeutralEvil and ChaoticEvil characters from having standards themselves. And the biggest flaw of the LawfulEvil EvenEvilHasStandards view is that Devils, the literal embodiments of LawfulEvil pre-4th Edition, do all these things without the need for standards.
** The Drow, the infamous EvilCounterpart of the Elves and Eladrin, are brutal, fascist conquerors whose society is based around lies, deceit and betrayal, is prone to brutal infighting, and lives by the unpredictable whims of their batshit insane goddess. And yet, even they are disgusted by the horrifyingly insane Derro, so much so that they're willing to put aside whatever evil plot they're currently concocting to put a stop to the Derros' own plots.
** The ''Al-Qadim'' setting encourages this trope with regards to honor, citing examples from the Literature/ArabianNights and Arabic folktales in which a variety of murderers and thieves hold the SacredHospitality rite of taking salt to be an unbreachable code.
** Numerous examples occur in the ''Elder Evils'' guidebook, where evil beings side with the heroes to oppose the EldritchAbomination featured in the scenario, seeing [[OmnicidalManiac what the creature is doing]] is something they cannot allow. The most extreme example is given in the backstory for Zargon, which claims that [[SatanicArchetype Asmodeus]] sided with the forces of good to halt the Elder Evil's first rampage. (The book does suggest, however, that this may have been at least partially a case of PragmaticVillainy on Asmodeus' part, seeing as Zargon was the former ruler of Hell who he had overthrown, and he did ''not'' want the guy around.)
** When ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' 4th Edition pared down the CharacterAlignment system, this became the primary way of differentiating between Evil and ChaoticEvil. An Evil character can still be a complete and utter monster (see the Devils mentioned above), but usually their vision for the world is relatively tolerable. A ChaoticEvil character, on the other hand, has such horrific goals (however loosely applied) that even Evil characters are horrified by them. There's a reason the main holders of the alignment in 4e are [[OmnicidalManiac Demons and Slaadi]]. This means a ChaoticEvil villain is the kind of thing that can make Good, Unaligned and Evil characters team up to beat its head in.
* ''TabletopGame/InNomine'' features a caste of demons called the Shedim, {{Body Surf}}ing {{Puppeteer Parasite}}s who survive by [[TheCorrupter degrading their hosts to the lowest possible moral denominator]]. While other demonic castes will sometimes hold a grudging respect for one another, not a single one of them wants anything to do with the Shedim if they can absolutely avoid it.
* ''TabletopGame/{{Scion}}'' has this in regards to Loki. He initially backed Hitler's rise to power in Germany in the hopes that a united Europe would allow him the power needed to stave off Ragnarok (it makes sense in context), but he was unaware of the Holocaust and would not have condoned it. After UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, the Nazi high command faced the greatest punishments Hel could deliver... but Hitler's soul never appeared in the Underworld.
** The authors do note that while some gods aren't exactly the nicest of individuals, they still do care for humanity on some level. Even the most bloodthirsty of the Aztec pantheon would not callously slaughter huge numbers of mortals ForTheEvulz. This is what sets apart the Titans and the darker Gods.
* In ''TabletopGame/{{Rifts}}'', the ObviouslyEvil Coalition States is lead by Emperor Prosek, who will cheerfully plunge his nation into pointless, horrific wars for the sake of power. He is absolutely ruthless when it comes to destroying non-humans and magic users. He even has a facility used to create mutant animals to be used as canon fodder. However, genetic experimentation on humans is strictly forbidden.
** The "Aberrant" character alignment is essentially this -- an Aberrant character is unambiguously evil, but at the same time follows a strict personal code of ethics. They may (for instance) kill without a thought, but ''never'' without reason, and are disgusted by characters of the "pure evil" Diabolic alignment.
* In ''TabletopGame/TheDarkEye'', those who forge a [[DealWithTheDevil pact]] with the demon lord of tyranny and vengeance are despite their evil will direct enemies of the servants of the [[GodOfEvil nameless god]]. The demon lord's demon subjects may even demand this attitude of their human "masters" no matter how well they are controlled.
* The Hochog in ''TabletopGame/StarsWithoutNumber'' believe everything comes down to reputation, and will do virtually anything to increase the reputation of their pack without showing any kind of regret. A Hochog will gladly devastate your planet and never feel a shred of remorse. However, they ''also'' strongly disapprove of any kind of cruelty. Many a crime boss has woken up without his Hochog mercenaries and missing rather a lot of blood after getting a little too "enthusiastic" with a punishment.
* ''TabletopGame/HunterTheVigil'' has quite a few examples of this:
** Although the Ashwood Abbey are noted mostly for being depraved deviants who rape, torture and even cannibalize the monsters they hunt, which incidentally means most other hunters ''despise'' them, the Spirit Slayers sourcebook mentions that "nobody sober" would admit to their actually skinning the [[ThisWasHisTrueForm now human corpses of slain werewolves]] to make clothing, rugs or other trophies out of them.
** The Promethean Brotherhood, a bunch of magic-envying hunters whose whole compact is dedicated to the idea of using HumanSacrifice to steal magical abilities from mages or anyone who has magical power, are noted as regarding the branch of their compact dedicated to deducing how to make the ritual more reliable with disgust for the things they do in pursuit of their goal, which include eating hearts, drinking blood, and wearing peoples' skin.
** The Night Watch are comprised of gangbangers, petty hoods and other "ghetto trash" who decided they couldn't stand having vampires running around in their neighborhood.
* The New Belt Pirates of ''TabletopGame/BattleTech'' are, as might be expected, opportunistic raiders, amoral scavengers, and general scumbags, but even they didn't want to have anything to do with the [[ChurchMilitant Word of Blake]].

** In the ''HorusHeresy'' tie-ins, even the Iron Warriors-- who committed genocide on their home world to suppress a rebellion, and who are among the most ruthless and bitter siege troops in the setting-- think the Emperor's Children have become badly fucked-up and a disgrace, and they are ''appalled'' by MadDoctor Fabius Bile's... ''[[WasOnceAMan experiments]]'' on other Space Marines.

** The Night Watch are comprised of gangbangers, petty hoods and other "ghetto trash" who decided they couldn't stand having vampires running around in their neighborhood.

* ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'': [[RuthlessModernPirates Ruthless Sixth World pirate]] Kane will commit murder, kidnapping, trafficking in contraband and people, highjacking of civilian vessels, and kill defenseless people, but even he balks at hijacking a submarine that can carry nuclear weapons, if only due to the ludicrous amount of heat it would bring down on him.

*** In some ways, the Virtues of Compassion and Self-Control mimic this. Low Compassion [[spoiler: or worse, its opposite, Conviction]] means you can do Horrific things without even suffering the slightest pang of guilt, but high Self-Control keeps the Evil in check - if you had low Self-Control you'd be AxCrazy, leaning towards BloodKnight .

** Now (2011) the Grey Knights have an Inquisitor who will happily call in orbital strikes on his own men. It makes the shot perfectly accurate. Then again, given that the supposedly holy Grey Knights butcher nuns and use their blood as a holy ointment in this same codex, the "good" and "pure" seem far worse than the evil.
** Khorne, the Chaos God of rage, murder, and general [[AxCrazy Ax-Crazyness]] will fuck you up if you try to present him skulls of defenceless people. Although this is less because he has standards and more because he wants skulls of worthy foes (trying to present him a bunch of baby skulls would be cheating). He doesn't seem to have any problems with the actual killing, though.
*** He does, however, loathe the use of trickery and deception. As a result, he's the only Chaos God in ''Fantasy'' whose followers cannot use magic.
*** The same goes for 40k, none of his followers can use psychic powers (even his daemons) and need to resort to more conventional (in comparison. A plasma cannon is anything but conventional otherwise) methods of dealing ranged damage.
*** Sadly Khorne has been Flanderized, he doesn't really care who gets slaughtered anymore, though he still doesn't like Sorcery, Trickery, or anything else that is considered "Using methods that do not rely upon one's own skill set".
**** Part of said Flanderization is the fact that many people consider Khorne worshipers to eschew ANY ranged combat, except maybe "randomly fire a pistol into the people you're charging at head first". They forget that Heavy Bolters and Autocannons make a *lot* of blood spill; it's not the ranged aspect that bothers them, but the fact that such weapons require little actual skill beyond "hold it steady as it turns people into paste." The paste is perfectly acceptable.
**** Plus, Khorne might not actually have a problem with attacking weak foes, since most of the time, worthy, honorable foes will show up to defend them. So attacking the weak to draw out the worthy would be perfectly acceptable, so once that's over with, you can finish off the weaklings.

** This crops up any time the followers of opposing Chaos Gods butt heads. For instance, Tzeench will have no compulsion against setting up schemes that cause untold billions to suffer near-eternal agony if it fosters positive change for (at least some of) his plans, but cannot stand the way that Nurgle just makes everything rot and fester and corrode without any greater end-game.
*** Similarly, Khorne is the god of bloodshed, rage, and sacrifice, which means that followers of Slaanesh (narcissists, hedonists and rapists) are anathema. Hell, Khornates even pull an unintentional BigDamnHeroes against Slaaneshi cultists in an Imperial-viewpoint novel!
** The Necrons are basically genocidal [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot Undead robotic skeletons]]. But even they're creeped out by Necrons known as [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast Flayed Ones]].
** Along the same vein as the above example, Kharn the Betrayer is so AxCrazy that other [[TheBerserker Khorne Berserkers]] refuse to associate with him. The thing about Kharn is that he's not just an unstoppable murder machine, he's an erratic, ''teamkilling'' unstoppable murder machine.
** In the ''HorusHeresy'' tie-ins, even the Iron Warriors - who committed genocide on their home world to suppress a rebellion, and who are among the most ruthless and bitter siege troops in the setting - think the Emperor's Children have become badly fucked-up and a disgrace, and they are ''appalled'' by MadDoctor Fabius Bile's...''[[WasOnceAMan experiments]]'' on other Space Marines.

* This is how some people view the LawfulEvil [[CharacterAlignment alignment]] in TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons. He may kill babies, assassinate kings, and plot to take over the world, but many an LawfulEvil villain will never engage in wanton slaughter to no purpose and will never break his word. That being said, there is nothing to prevent a LawfulEvil from engaging in PragmaticVillainy and finding minimal pretense to do the above ("I won't slaughter these villagers ForTheEvulz, I need living space for my more important countrymen"). Furthermore there is nothing to prevent the NeutralEvil and ChaoticEvil characters from having standards themselves. And the biggest flaw of the LawfulEvil EvenEvilHasStandards view is that Devils, the literal embodiments of LawfulEvil pre-4th Edition, do all these things without the need for standards.
** The Drow, the infamous EvilCounterpartRace of the Elves and Eladrin, are brutal, fascist conquerors whose society is based around lies, deceit and betrayal, is prone to brutal infighting, and lives by the unpredictable whims of their batshit insane goddess. And yet, even they are disgusted by the horrifyingly insane Derro, so much that they're willing to put aside whatever evil plot they're currently concocting to put a stop to the Derros' own plots.
** Numerous examples occur in the ''Elder Evils'' guidebook, where evil beings side with the heroes to oppose the EldritchAbomination featured in the scenario, seeing [[OmnicidalManiac what the creature is doing]] is something they cannot allow. The most extreme example is given in the backstory for Zargon, which claims that Asmodeus (the setting's version of ''Satan'', for pete's sake) sided with the forces of good to halt the Elder Evil's first rampage. (The book does suggest, however, that this may have been at least partially a case of PragmaticVillainy on Asmodeus' part, seeing as Zargon was the former ruler of Hell who he had overthrown, and he did ''not'' want the guy around.)

* In ''{{Rifts}}'', the ObviouslyEvil Coalition States is lead by Emperor Prosek, who will cheerfully plunge his nation into pointless, horrific wars for the sake of power. He is absolutely ruthless when it comes to destroying non-humans and magic users. He even has a facility used to create mutant animals to be used as canon fodder. However, genetic experimentation on humans is strictly forbidden.

* In TabletopGame/TheDarkEye, those who forge a [[DealWithTheDevil pact]] with the demon lord of tyranny and vengeance are despite their evil will direct enemies of the servants of the [[GodOfEvil nameless god]]. The demon lord's demon subjects may even demand this attitude of their human "masters" no matter how well they are controlled.
* Another TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons example; when 4e pared down the CharacterAlignment system, this became the primary way of differentiating between Evil and ChaoticEvil. An Evil character can still be a complete and utter monster (see the Devils mentioned above), but usually their vision for the world is relatively tolerable. A ChaoticEvil character, on the other hand, has such horrific goals (however loosely applied) that even Evil characters are horrified by them. There's a reason the main holders of the alignment in 4e are [[OmnicidalManiac Demons and Slaadi]]. This means a ChaoticEvil villain is the kind of thing that can make Good, Unaligned and Evil characters team up to beat its head in.
* The ''Al-Qadim'' TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons setting encourages this trope with regards to honour, citing examples from the ArabianNights and Arabic folktales in which a variety of murderers and thieves hold the SacredHospitality of taking salt to be an unbreachable code.

* ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'': [[RuthlessModernPirates Ruthless Sixth World pirate]] Kane will commit murder, kidnapping, trafficking in contraband and people, highjacking of civilian vessels, and kill defenseless people, but even he balks at highjacking a submarine that can carry nuclear weapons, if only due to the ludicrous amount of heat it would bring down on him.

** Although the Ashwood Abbey are noted mostly for being depraved deviants who rape, torture and even cannibalise the monsters they hunt, which incidentally means most other hunters ''despise'' them, the Spirit Slayers sourcebook mentions that "nobody sober" would admit to their actually skinning the [[ThisWasHisTrueForm now human corpses of slain werewolves]] to make clothing, rugs or other trophies out of them.

* ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'': [[RuthlessModernPirates Ruthless Sixth World pirate]] Kane will commit murder, kidnapping, trafficking in contraband and people, highjacking of civilian vessels, and kill defenseless people, but even he balks at highjacking a submarine that can carry nuclear weapons, if only due to the ludicrous amount of heat it would bring down on him.

** The "Aberrant" character alignment is essentially this -- an Aberrant character is unambiguously evil, but at the same time follows a strict personal code of ethics. They may (for instance) kill without a thought, but ''never'' without reason, and are disgusted by characters of the "pure evil" Diabolous alignment.

* ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'' has several levels of standards, especially considering the players are playing corpses repeatedly engaging in what is essentially rape (and cannibalism.) Most clans despise the Sabbat (for being AxCrazy nutcases with seemingly no regard for the {{Masquerade}}), the Giovanni (for being incestuous necromancers) and the Setites (for being dealers in generic sin). These in turn despise the Ba'ali (for being worshipers and servants of powers wanting to end existence). And certain sub-factions of the Ba'ali despise the other subfactions.

** The Necrons are basically genocidal [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot Undead robotic skeletons]]. But even they're creeped out by Necrons known as Flayed Ones.

** There are also different degrees of evil among the darklords. Azalin has nothing but contempt for the cruel tyrant Vlad Drakov, the lord of the neighboring Falkovnia; same with the ''all'' the darklords of the realms who border Falkovnia, actually. And the ironic part is, Drakov has no supernatural powers at all. He's fully human. But his cruelty is greater than almost ''any'' darklord who does.

* ''TabletopGame/{{Scion}}'' has this in regards to Loki. He initially backed Hitler's rise to power in Germany in the hopes that a united Europe would allow him the power needed to stave off Ragnarok (it makes sense in context), but he was unaware of the Holocaust and would not have condoned it. After WorldWarII, the Nazi high command faced the greatest punishments Hel could deliver... but Hitler's soul never appeared in the Underworld.

* In TheDarkEye, those who forge a [[DealWithTheDevil pact]] with the demon lord of tyranny and vengeance are despite their evil will direct enemies of the servants of the [[GodOfEvil nameless god]]. The demon lord's demon subjects may even demand this attitude of their human "masters" no matter how well they are controlled.
* Another DungeonsAndDragons example; when 4e pared down the CharacterAlignment system, this became the primary way of differentiating between Evil and ChaoticEvil. An Evil character can still be a complete and utter monster (see the Devils mentioned above), but usually their vision for the world is relatively tolerable. A ChaoticEvil character, on the other hand, has such horrific goals (however loosely applied) that even Evil characters are horrified by them. There's a reason the main holders of the alignment in 4e are [[OmnicidalManiac Demons and Slaadi]]. This means a ChaoticEvil villain is the kind of thing that can make Good, Unaligned and Evil characters team up to beat its head in.
* The ''Al-Qadim'' DungeonsAndDragons setting encourages this trope with regards to honour, citing examples from the ArabianNights and Arabic folktales in which a variety of murderers and thieves hold the SacredHospitality of taking salt to be an unbreachable code.

* The Hochog in ''TabletopGame/StarsWithoutNumber'' believe everything comes down to reputation, and will do virtually anything to increase the reputation of their pack without showing any kind of regret. A Hochog will gladly devastate your planet and never feel a shred of remorse. However, they ''also'' strongly disapprove of any kind of cruelty. Many a crime boss has woken up without his Hochog mercenaries and missing rather a lot of blood after getting a little too "enthusiastic" with a punishment.

* The ''Al-Qadim'' DungeonsAndDragons setting encourages this trope with regards to honour, citing examples from the ArabianNights and Arabic folktales in which a variety of murderers and thieves hold the SacredHospitality of taking salt to be an unbreachable code.

* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' and ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', you can be an AxeCrazy berzerker, a sadistic torturer, or a demon worshipper, but you ''never'' fire at a melee, because that would hit your own troops. The Skaven are the [[WeHaveReserves sole exception]] in both GrimDark game lines.

** The "Aberrant" character alignment is essentially this -- an Aberrant character is unambiguously evil, but at the same time follows a strict personal code of ethics. They may (for instance) kill without a thought, but ''never'' without reason, and will likely not appreciate characters of the "pure evil" Diabolous alignment or even the lawless-but-not-really-evik Anarchic alignment.

* In the D20Modern campaign setting ''Otherverse America'', a DividedStatesOfAmerica shattered by an abortion issue centered civil war, the Pro-Life faction is portrayed as the villains. Despite this, one of the sidebars makes it clear that any links that they might have had with neo-nazi factions (a modern accusation with varying levels of truth), the 22nd century version has effectively purged.

** The ''Guide to the Sabbat'' sourcebook encourages players to play Sabbat characters who go about murdering, raping, torturing, and generally raising Hell, metaphorically at least. But if you try to raise Hell...the book mentions in several places that demon summoning is a Bad Thing, the GM is under no obligation to allow the players to do it, and if they do, the GM should be willing to drag their characters off to Hell on a whim.

* The Ventrue (in the OldWorldOfDarkness) are the BlueBlood rulers of the Kindred, and the highest enforcers of the standards expected within the Camarilla.

* Another DungeonsAndDragons example; when 4e pared down the CharacterAlignment system, this became the primary way of differentiating between Evil and ChaoticEvil. An Evil character can still be a complete and utter monster (see the Devils mentioned above), but usually their vision for the world is relatively tolerable. A ChaoticEvil character, on the other hand, has such horrific goals (however loosely applied) that even Evil characters are horrified by them. There's a reason the main holders of the alignment in 4e are [[OmnicidalManiac Demons and Slaadi]]. This means a ChaoticEvil villain is the kind of thing that can make Good, Unaligned and Evil characters team up to beat its head in.

* This is how some people view the LawfulEvil [[CharacterAlignment alignment]] in DungeonsAndDragons. He may kill babies, assassinate kings, and plot to take over the world, but many an LawfulEvil villain will never engage in wanton slaughter to no purpose and will never break his word. That being said, there is nothing to prevent a LawfulEvil from engaging in PragmaticVillainy and finding minimal pretense to do the above ("I won't slaughter these villagers ForTheEvulz, I need living space for my more important countrymen"). Furthermore there is nothing to prevent the NeutralEvil and ChaoticEvil characters from having standards themselves. And the biggest flaw of the LawfulEvil EvenEvilHasStandards view is that Devils, the literal embodiments of LawfulEvil pre-4th Edition, do all these things without the need for standards.

** Many of the more inhuman moralities have this trope in full effect. Two examples would be the path of Lilith and the path of the night. Those on the path of Lilith believe that pain is a good thing, they will happily kidnap and torture people for no better reason than a passing kindness of making them more jaded and realistic. Murder to a lilin is seen in exactly the same light as to a follower of Humanity. The path of the Night views vampires as agents of hell. They choose a victim, investigate them until they find a sin, however minor, then torment and traumatize their victim with the aim of making their life a living hell. Emphasis on living once again, killing is still wrong.

* In TheDarkEye, those who forge a [[DealWithTheDevil pact]] with the demon lord of tyranny and vengeance are despite their evil will direct enemies of the servants of the [[GodOfEvil nameless god]]. The demon lord's demon subjects may even demand this attitude of their human "masters" no matter how well they are controlled.