History DethroningMoment / TabletopGaming

25th Apr '16 1:46:46 PM GhostLad
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** The entire metaplot of ''TabletopGame/LegendOfTheFiveRings'' can be considered an extended DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck, for one very simple reason: the outcome of the metaplot for the RPG was determined by the outcome of the ''Legend of the Five Rings'' card game tournament that was held every year. Not only did this result in sudden (and often nonsensical) story shifts, but it opened the metaplot to manipulation attempts by the card game players, who either tried to promote their favorite clan or [[{{Troll}} troll]] the fanbase. By the time 4th edition came out, the makers of the game wised up, and allowed the metaplot to be optional, rather than a mandatory part of the game experience.
** yunatwilight: At least Samuel Haight didn't take down the entire setting with him. ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' started building up a long "something is going horribly wrong with the whole multiverse" arc that worked on the high concept level but had wretchedly poor execution. The capper to the whole thing, though -- and the final product in the ''Planescape'' line -- was ''Faction War,'' based on the premise that the city of Sigil descends into anarchy. The adventure itself is completely mundane, and the only evidence of any "war" in its story is that all the [=NPCs=] have "gone to ground" and can't be found. The metaplot concludes with an incomprehensible set piece -- one the book sheepishly admits the players can't possibly understand without reading the module! As a final slap in the face, the Lady of Pain is apparently so pissed off by all of this that she dissolves the factions (and, in the process, Sigil's government) and boots most of the named [=NPCs=] out of Sigil, wrecking what made the setting interesting in the first place.

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** * The entire metaplot of ''TabletopGame/LegendOfTheFiveRings'' can be considered an extended DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck, for one very simple reason: the outcome of the metaplot for the RPG was determined by the outcome of the ''Legend of the Five Rings'' card game tournament that was held every year. Not only did this result in sudden (and often nonsensical) story shifts, but it opened the metaplot to manipulation attempts by the card game players, who either tried to promote their favorite clan or [[{{Troll}} troll]] the fanbase. By the time 4th edition came out, the makers of the game wised up, and allowed the metaplot to be optional, rather than a mandatory part of the game experience.
** * yunatwilight: At least Samuel Haight didn't take down the entire setting with him. ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' started building up a long "something is going horribly wrong with the whole multiverse" arc that worked on the high concept level but had wretchedly poor execution. The capper to the whole thing, though -- and the final product in the ''Planescape'' line -- was ''Faction War,'' based on the premise that the city of Sigil descends into anarchy. The adventure itself is completely mundane, and the only evidence of any "war" in its story is that all the [=NPCs=] have "gone to ground" and can't be found. The metaplot concludes with an incomprehensible set piece -- one the book sheepishly admits the players can't possibly understand without reading the module! As a final slap in the face, the Lady of Pain is apparently so pissed off by all of this that she dissolves the factions (and, in the process, Sigil's government) and boots most of the named [=NPCs=] out of Sigil, wrecking what made the setting interesting in the first place.
5th Mar '16 3:11:13 AM SorPepita
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** yunatwilight: At least Samuel Haight didn't take down the entire setting with him. ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' starting building up a long "something is going horribly wrong with the whole multiverse" arc that worked on the high concept level but had wretchedly poor execution. The capper to the whole thing, though -- and the final product in the ''Planescape'' line -- was ''Faction War,'' based on the premise that the city of Sigil descends into anarchy. The adventure itself is completely mundane, and the only evidence of any "war" in its story is that all the [=NPCs=] have "gone to ground" and can't be found. The metaplot concludes with an incomprehensible set piece -- one the book sheepishly admits the players can't possibly understand without reading the module! As a final slap in the face, the Lady of Pain is apparently so pissed off by all of this that she dissolves the factions (and, in the process, Sigil's government) and boots most of the named [=NPCs=] out of Sigil, wrecking what made the setting interesting in the first place.

to:

** yunatwilight: At least Samuel Haight didn't take down the entire setting with him. ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' starting started building up a long "something is going horribly wrong with the whole multiverse" arc that worked on the high concept level but had wretchedly poor execution. The capper to the whole thing, though -- and the final product in the ''Planescape'' line -- was ''Faction War,'' based on the premise that the city of Sigil descends into anarchy. The adventure itself is completely mundane, and the only evidence of any "war" in its story is that all the [=NPCs=] have "gone to ground" and can't be found. The metaplot concludes with an incomprehensible set piece -- one the book sheepishly admits the players can't possibly understand without reading the module! As a final slap in the face, the Lady of Pain is apparently so pissed off by all of this that she dissolves the factions (and, in the process, Sigil's government) and boots most of the named [=NPCs=] out of Sigil, wrecking what made the setting interesting in the first place.
17th Jan '16 7:27:46 AM SorPepita
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* Shadow Revolution: Khornate Knights of ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' is pretty much one of the major problems with the writing of Matt Ward, apparently the Grey Knights are not resistant enough towards corruption even though WordOfGod states no Grey Knight can be corrupted. So why did they need the blood of surviving Sisters Of Battle anyway when the GKs have been proven to be resistant to the Warp?

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* Shadow Revolution: Khornate Knights of ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' is pretty much one of the major problems with the writing of Matt Ward, apparently the Grey Knights are not resistant enough towards corruption even though WordOfGod states no Grey Knight can be corrupted. So why did they need the blood of surviving Sisters Of Battle anyway when the GKs [=GKs=] have been proven to be resistant to the Warp?
30th Nov '15 11:15:57 AM FF32
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** The entire metaplot of ''TabletopGame/LegendOfTheFiveRings'' can be considered an extended DethroningMomentOfSuck, for one very simple reason: the outcome of the metaplot for the RPG was determined by the outcome of the ''Legend of the Five Rings'' card game tournament that was held every year. Not only did this result in sudden (and often nonsensical) story shifts, but it opened the metaplot to manipulation attempts by the card game players, who either tried to promote their favorite clan or [[{{Troll}} troll]] the fanbase. By the time 4th edition came out, the makers of the game wised up, and allowed the metaplot to be optional, rather than a mandatory part of the game experience.

to:

** The entire metaplot of ''TabletopGame/LegendOfTheFiveRings'' can be considered an extended DethroningMomentOfSuck, DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck, for one very simple reason: the outcome of the metaplot for the RPG was determined by the outcome of the ''Legend of the Five Rings'' card game tournament that was held every year. Not only did this result in sudden (and often nonsensical) story shifts, but it opened the metaplot to manipulation attempts by the card game players, who either tried to promote their favorite clan or [[{{Troll}} troll]] the fanbase. By the time 4th edition came out, the makers of the game wised up, and allowed the metaplot to be optional, rather than a mandatory part of the game experience.
29th Jul '15 5:18:01 PM DarkElfPrincess
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** Especially considering that some Sisters of Battle HAVE been corrupted before!

to:

** Especially considering that some Sisters of Battle HAVE have been corrupted before!
22nd Jul '15 3:04:01 PM VPhantom
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** yunatwilight: At least Samuel Haight didn't take down the entire setting with him. ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' starting building up a long "something is going horribly wrong with the whole multiverse" arc that worked on the high concept level but had wretchedly poor execution. The capper to the whole thing, though -- and the final product in the ''Planescape'' line -- was ''Faction War,'' based on the premise that the city of Sigil descends into anarchy. The adventure itself is completely mundane, and the only evidence of any "war" in its story is that all the NPCs have "gone to ground" and can't be found. The metaplot concludes with an incomprehensible set piece -- one the book sheepishly admits the players can't possibly understand without reading the module! As a final slap in the face, the Lady of Pain is apparently so pissed off by all of this that she dissolves the factions (and, in the process, Sigil's government) and boots most of the named NPCs out of Sigil, wrecking what made the setting interesting in the first place.

to:

** yunatwilight: At least Samuel Haight didn't take down the entire setting with him. ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' starting building up a long "something is going horribly wrong with the whole multiverse" arc that worked on the high concept level but had wretchedly poor execution. The capper to the whole thing, though -- and the final product in the ''Planescape'' line -- was ''Faction War,'' based on the premise that the city of Sigil descends into anarchy. The adventure itself is completely mundane, and the only evidence of any "war" in its story is that all the NPCs [=NPCs=] have "gone to ground" and can't be found. The metaplot concludes with an incomprehensible set piece -- one the book sheepishly admits the players can't possibly understand without reading the module! As a final slap in the face, the Lady of Pain is apparently so pissed off by all of this that she dissolves the factions (and, in the process, Sigil's government) and boots most of the named NPCs [=NPCs=] out of Sigil, wrecking what made the setting interesting in the first place.
5th Jun '15 4:19:44 AM Blackjack254
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* Blackjack254: The Introduction of 6:5 Blackjack (in which A Blackjack will only net you $12 on a $10 bet instead of $15). Back when it was first introduced in the early 2000s, it was only used on Single Deck games, where it's a little bit exceptable but now, some casinos in Las Vegas Have 6:5 Payouts entirely, regardless of deck count or minimum bet. apparently they don't know if people don't lose so quickly, they'll have more fun even if they do end up losing and will want to come back. The low house edge on standard 3:2 Blackjack is what makes it so appealing in the first place.

to:

* Blackjack254: The Introduction of 6:5 Blackjack (in which A Blackjack will only net you $12 on a $10 bet instead of $15). Back when it was first introduced in the early 2000s, it was only used on Single Deck games, where it's a little bit exceptable acceptable but now, some casinos in Las Vegas Have 6:5 Payouts entirely, regardless of deck count or minimum bet. apparently they don't know if people don't lose so quickly, they'll have more fun even if they do end up losing and will want to come back. The low house edge on standard 3:2 Blackjack is what makes it so appealing in the first place.
4th Jun '15 7:20:13 PM Blackjack254
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Added DiffLines:

* Blackjack254: The Introduction of 6:5 Blackjack (in which A Blackjack will only net you $12 on a $10 bet instead of $15). Back when it was first introduced in the early 2000s, it was only used on Single Deck games, where it's a little bit exceptable but now, some casinos in Las Vegas Have 6:5 Payouts entirely, regardless of deck count or minimum bet. apparently they don't know if people don't lose so quickly, they'll have more fun even if they do end up losing and will want to come back. The low house edge on standard 3:2 Blackjack is what makes it so appealing in the first place.
5th Apr '15 2:00:58 PM ACW
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* MiriOhki: [[TabletopGame/BattleTech Katherine Steiner-Davion]] was a frustrating enough character as it was. Much of her storylines were one MoralEventHorizon after another, starting with her assassinating her mother, and doing her best to kill or frame just about the entire rest of her family. So she's a CompleteMonster. But that isn't the problem. She prosecutes a seven year long Civil War and commits a multitude of crimes, not only against [=FedCom=] citizens, but killing the daughter of the ruler of an uninvolved nation, just because she was dating Katherine's brother and the leader of the enemy forces. She finally loses the battle and is arrested. You would think there would be people lining up to lynch her throughout three fifths of the Inner Sphere. Then suddenly, Vlad Ward of the crusader Wolves swoops in, and rattles his saber, saying that if they didn't surrender Katherine to him, the Wolves would invade. It was mostly a bluff but nobody even considered trying to call him on it. Now to be fair, he didn't come in quite as a GiantSpaceFleaOutOfNowhere, as he had secret dealings with her that he wouldn't want to come out, but her KarmaHoudini status is especially frustrating. It also leads to a later DMOS that calls out some serious FridgeLogic. One of the biggest issues she had in consolidating power in the Federated Commonwealth (Eventually leading her to have the Lyran half secede) is that the [=FedCom=] constitution required the First Prince (gender-neutral title in this case) to have military service. Katherine had nothing but contempt for the military except as pawns for her to use, and her refusal of military service was her main disqualifier for legitimate rule in the Federated Commonwealth. The FridgeLogic fuelling her second DMOS is that she was a prisoner of the Clans. A military society. The only way she could ever advance to power among them was to prove herself a worthy warrior, and fight her way up the ranks. So you'd think she'd be neutralized. Right? No. Somehow, she managed to completely delete all of her characterization in order to allow her to continue to not only function in Clan society, but allowed her to have a child, from both her and [[{{Squick}} her brother's stolen genes]]... the same brother she fought a seven year war against?

to:

* MiriOhki: [[TabletopGame/BattleTech Katherine Steiner-Davion]] was a frustrating enough character as it was. Much of her storylines were one MoralEventHorizon after another, starting with her assassinating her mother, and doing her best to kill or frame just about the entire rest of her family. So she's a CompleteMonster.heinous. But that isn't the problem. She prosecutes a seven year long Civil War and commits a multitude of crimes, not only against [=FedCom=] citizens, but killing the daughter of the ruler of an uninvolved nation, just because she was dating Katherine's brother and the leader of the enemy forces. She finally loses the battle and is arrested. You would think there would be people lining up to lynch her throughout three fifths of the Inner Sphere. Then suddenly, Vlad Ward of the crusader Wolves swoops in, and rattles his saber, saying that if they didn't surrender Katherine to him, the Wolves would invade. It was mostly a bluff but nobody even considered trying to call him on it. Now to be fair, he didn't come in quite as a GiantSpaceFleaOutOfNowhere, as he had secret dealings with her that he wouldn't want to come out, but her KarmaHoudini status is especially frustrating. It also leads to a later DMOS that calls out some serious FridgeLogic. One of the biggest issues she had in consolidating power in the Federated Commonwealth (Eventually leading her to have the Lyran half secede) is that the [=FedCom=] constitution required the First Prince (gender-neutral title in this case) to have military service. Katherine had nothing but contempt for the military except as pawns for her to use, and her refusal of military service was her main disqualifier for legitimate rule in the Federated Commonwealth. The FridgeLogic fuelling her second DMOS is that she was a prisoner of the Clans. A military society. The only way she could ever advance to power among them was to prove herself a worthy warrior, and fight her way up the ranks. So you'd think she'd be neutralized. Right? No. Somehow, she managed to completely delete all of her characterization in order to allow her to continue to not only function in Clan society, but allowed her to have a child, from both her and [[{{Squick}} her brother's stolen genes]]... the same brother she fought a seven year war against?
20th Feb '15 10:04:39 AM Icarael
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** Tropers/{{Icarael}}: If one had to name ''TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering'''s nadir (in terms of design, anyway), it would have to be ''Homelands''. While the flavor and WorldBuilding aspects of the set were well-done, and it introduced things like Legendaries and artifact creatures that are still in use today, it had a lot of things that brought it down in comparison to its successors. The set's power level was absurdly low, even by the time's standards; it introduced no new mechanics; had little synergy with itself; and had awkward design. If one were to take a lesson from it, as [[http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr97 Mark Rosewater]] has, it's that ''Magic'' lives and dies by its mechanics.

to:

** * Tropers/{{Icarael}}: If one had to name ''TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering'''s nadir (in terms of design, anyway), it would have to be ''Homelands''. While the flavor and WorldBuilding aspects of the set were well-done, and it introduced things like Legendaries and artifact creatures that are still in use today, it had a lot of things that brought it down in comparison to its successors. The set's power level was absurdly low, even by the time's standards; it introduced no new mechanics; had little synergy with itself; and had awkward design. If one were to take a lesson from it, as [[http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr97 Mark Rosewater]] has, it's that ''Magic'' lives and dies by its mechanics.
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