History DethroningMoment / Naruto

17th Mar '18 12:02:24 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Tropers/{{ajr1218}}: Guy's fight against Madara, for two reasons: 1) The animation, and 2) the end result. Aside from the Night Guy, which turned out pretty [[AnimationBump kickass]] despite the Anime Time pace, Guy's prior 7th and 8th gate assaults were very poorly animated, made even more inexcusable by the months worth of filler beforehand. If Studio Pierrot were a respectable animation studio, they would have used the filler time to allow quality animators to do these very plot-critical scenes months in advance, rather that just [[CashCowFranchise milking the show]] and using their top animators for their shitty filler episodes. Secondly, the fact that Kishimoto made Guy's final kick connect [[ATeamFiring a few inches too far to the left]], completely sparing his heart and allowing his HealingFactor to kick in full gear, bringing him back to working order in a matter of seconds. Made even more insulting with Naruto coming in and overpowering Madara even faster than Guy, leading to the Tree ([[GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere Kaguya's]] will) having Madara absorb it. Yes, even though there was a backup available for Madara, Guy's fight was copped out so that Naruto can steal the spotlight. Also, the way Naruto "healed" Guy is no better than [[RevengeOfTheSith the Sith's life-force stabilization]]. Guy was essentially [[AndIMustScream forced to live for 2 or so years of debilitating full-body 4th-degree burns that somehow managed to heal on their own]] (perhaps his time in the Infinite Tsukoyumi helped). Made even more insulting by the fact that Naruto has Kurama in him, known for its insane HealingFactor rivaling Madara's. Had Naruto used Kurama's power on Guy as well, he would have ended up in better shape... though at least 2 decades older due to the mass-scale cellular reconstruction.

to:

* Tropers/{{ajr1218}}: Guy's fight against Madara, for two reasons: 1) The animation, and 2) the end result. Aside from the Night Guy, which turned out pretty [[AnimationBump kickass]] despite the Anime Time pace, Guy's prior 7th and 8th gate assaults were very poorly animated, made even more inexcusable by the months worth of filler beforehand. If Studio Pierrot were a respectable animation studio, they would have used the filler time to allow quality animators to do these very plot-critical scenes months in advance, rather that just [[CashCowFranchise milking the show]] and using their top animators for their shitty filler episodes. Secondly, the fact that Kishimoto made Guy's final kick connect [[ATeamFiring a few inches too far to the left]], completely sparing his heart and allowing his HealingFactor to kick in full gear, bringing him back to working order in a matter of seconds. Made even more insulting with Naruto coming in and overpowering Madara even faster than Guy, leading to the Tree ([[GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere Kaguya's]] will) having Madara absorb it. Yes, even though there was a backup available for Madara, Guy's fight was copped out so that Naruto can steal the spotlight. Also, the way Naruto "healed" Guy is no better than [[RevengeOfTheSith [[Film/RevengeOfTheSith the Sith's life-force stabilization]]. Guy was essentially [[AndIMustScream forced to live for 2 or so years of debilitating full-body 4th-degree burns that somehow managed to heal on their own]] (perhaps his time in the Infinite Tsukoyumi helped). Made even more insulting by the fact that Naruto has Kurama in him, known for its insane HealingFactor rivaling Madara's. Had Naruto used Kurama's power on Guy as well, he would have ended up in better shape... though at least 2 decades older due to the mass-scale cellular reconstruction.
29th Nov '17 9:51:32 AM CerotechOmega
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Tropers/{{ajr1218}}: Guy's fight against Madara, for two reasons: 1) The animation, and 2) the end result. Aside from the Night Guy, which turned out pretty [[AnimationBump kickass]] despite the Anime Time pace, Guy's prior 7th and 8th gate assaults were '''very''' poorly animated, made even more inexcusable by the months worth of filler beforehand. If Studio Pierrot were a respectable animation studio, they would have used the filler time to allow quality animators to do these ''very plot-critical'' scenes months in advance, rather that just [[CashCowFranchise milking the show]] and using their top animators for their shitty filler episodes. Secondly, the fact that Kishimoto made Guy's final kick connect [[ATeamFiring a few inches too far to the left]], completely sparing his heart and allowing his HealingFactor to kick in full gear, bringing him back to working order in a matter of seconds. Made even more insulting with Naruto coming in and overpowering Madara even faster than Guy, leading to the Tree ([[GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere Kaguya's]] will) having Madara absorb it. Yes, even though there was a backup available for Madara, Guy's fight was copped out so that Naruto can steal the spotlight. Also, the way Naruto "healed" Guy is no better than [[RevengeOfTheSith the Sith's life-force stabilization]]. Guy was essentially [[AndIMustScream forced to live for 2 or so years of debilitating full-body 4th-degree burns that somehow managed to heal on their own]] (perhaps his time in the Infinite Tsukoyumi helped). Made even more insulting by the fact that Naruto has Kurama in him, known for its insane HealingFactor rivaling Madara's. Had Naruto used Kurama's power on Guy as well, he would have ended up in better shape... though at least 2 decades older due to the mass-scale cellular reconstruction.

to:

* Tropers/{{ajr1218}}: Guy's fight against Madara, for two reasons: 1) The animation, and 2) the end result. Aside from the Night Guy, which turned out pretty [[AnimationBump kickass]] despite the Anime Time pace, Guy's prior 7th and 8th gate assaults were '''very''' very poorly animated, made even more inexcusable by the months worth of filler beforehand. If Studio Pierrot were a respectable animation studio, they would have used the filler time to allow quality animators to do these ''very plot-critical'' very plot-critical scenes months in advance, rather that just [[CashCowFranchise milking the show]] and using their top animators for their shitty filler episodes. Secondly, the fact that Kishimoto made Guy's final kick connect [[ATeamFiring a few inches too far to the left]], completely sparing his heart and allowing his HealingFactor to kick in full gear, bringing him back to working order in a matter of seconds. Made even more insulting with Naruto coming in and overpowering Madara even faster than Guy, leading to the Tree ([[GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere Kaguya's]] will) having Madara absorb it. Yes, even though there was a backup available for Madara, Guy's fight was copped out so that Naruto can steal the spotlight. Also, the way Naruto "healed" Guy is no better than [[RevengeOfTheSith the Sith's life-force stabilization]]. Guy was essentially [[AndIMustScream forced to live for 2 or so years of debilitating full-body 4th-degree burns that somehow managed to heal on their own]] (perhaps his time in the Infinite Tsukoyumi helped). Made even more insulting by the fact that Naruto has Kurama in him, known for its insane HealingFactor rivaling Madara's. Had Naruto used Kurama's power on Guy as well, he would have ended up in better shape... though at least 2 decades older due to the mass-scale cellular reconstruction.



* @/ArcaneAzmadi: It's hard to pinpoint the ''precise'' moment that this manga irredeemably went to the dogs, but Kaguya being revealed to be [[TheManBehindTheMan The Woman Behind The Man Behind The Man Behind The Man]] behind everything was the last straw. Hey Kishimoto? Did anyone point out to you that you did this ''twice'' already? First Tobi was The Man Behind Pain, then Madara (the real one) was the man behind Tobi and now, after revealing that Madara was (implausibly) behind almost every single event in the series, you flip him over to reveal that OOPS! he was just a pawn of Kaguya. But that's not the worst thing. No, the worst thing is the Kaguya reveal combined with the absurd bullshit that is the reveal that Naruto and Sasuke are the reincarnations of Indra and Asura. With one stroke, Kishimoto has literally rendered the entire series a ShaggyDogStory! Now the only characters who matter are the ones who were dead for centuries before the manga even began! From a plot perspective Naruto and Sasuke aren't even characters any more, they're just character-shaped pieces to be plugged into Indra- and Asura-shaped receptacles crafted for them by destiny. None of their achievements, none of the skills they've worked so hard to gain matter because they have roles pre-set for them to fill. And the series has literally discarded ''every'' single precept that once made it worth reading. Guts, heart and hard work are more important than natural talent and bloodline? Nope, that's been inverted to the ultimate degree with the plot twist that Naruto and Sasuke get their ultimate powers literally handed to them because of their past lives and the last 2 "normal" characters left standing, Sakura and Kakashi, get literally told to their faces that they're useless! There is no fate but what we make? Nope, this entire plot is just a reenactment of an ancient battle by ancient personas which has nothing to do with any of the actual people involved (looks like Neji was right all along)! This truly marked the stage where ''Naruto'' stopped being ''Naruto'' and became a horrible TrollFic of itself; seriously it's starting to make ''FanFic/NaretoTheScretOfShiobi'' look good by comparison! Possibly the best summary of the current situation was provided by a fellow forum-goer on a manga forum I frequent:

to:

* @/ArcaneAzmadi: It's hard to pinpoint the ''precise'' precise moment that this manga irredeemably went to the dogs, but Kaguya being revealed to be [[TheManBehindTheMan The Woman Behind The Man Behind The Man Behind The Man]] behind everything was the last straw. Hey Kishimoto? Did anyone point out to you that you did this ''twice'' twice already? First Tobi was The Man Behind Pain, then Madara (the real one) was the man behind Tobi and now, after revealing that Madara was (implausibly) behind almost every single event in the series, you flip him over to reveal that OOPS! he was just a pawn of Kaguya. But that's not the worst thing. No, the worst thing is the Kaguya reveal combined with the absurd bullshit that is the reveal that Naruto and Sasuke are the reincarnations of Indra and Asura. With one stroke, Kishimoto has literally rendered the entire series a ShaggyDogStory! Now the only characters who matter are the ones who were dead for centuries before the manga even began! From a plot perspective Naruto and Sasuke aren't even characters any more, they're just character-shaped pieces to be plugged into Indra- and Asura-shaped receptacles crafted for them by destiny. None of their achievements, none of the skills they've worked so hard to gain matter because they have roles pre-set for them to fill. And the series has literally discarded ''every'' single precept that once made it worth reading. Guts, heart and hard work are more important than natural talent and bloodline? Nope, that's been inverted to the ultimate degree with the plot twist that Naruto and Sasuke get their ultimate powers literally handed to them because of their past lives and the last 2 "normal" characters left standing, Sakura and Kakashi, get literally told to their faces that they're useless! There is no fate but what we make? Nope, this entire plot is just a reenactment of an ancient battle by ancient personas which has nothing to do with any of the actual people involved (looks like Neji was right all along)! This truly marked the stage where ''Naruto'' stopped being ''Naruto'' and became a horrible TrollFic of itself; seriously it's starting to make ''FanFic/NaretoTheScretOfShiobi'' look good by comparison! Possibly the best summary of the current situation was provided by a fellow forum-goer on a manga forum I frequent:



%%* Tropers/{{Lurkingal}}: I actually don't have a problem with most of the twists right now. I like Obito and Madara. My main problem is [[spoiler: HOW they are done. These characters' back-stories line up perfectly with their archetypes, roles, but the execution is SO THOROUGHLY LACKING. I mean seriously, Madara was once a lonely, hurt boy who wished for peace yet got so twisted by the world he turned into a generic villain sue? WTF Kishimoto! Back-stories are supposed to FLESH OUT a character's present actions, to make them seem more justified. Instead they give me a glimpse of a What Had Been character that's more interesting, sympathetic, and believable than this shit-talking trash I've been reading week after week. I can get behind that Madara and Obito are, underneath it all: two traumatized boys that just want to fuck over this fucked up world and create a dream-world that's all lovey-dovey happiness because, hell, as sad as it is, that is a very real human feeling. I can get behind the fact they pretend to be cackling maniacs to conceal the pain and instability they feel inside as their world crumbles around them. I can relate to this being a genetic disorder that runs in the family. I really could. However, take a page from Tom Hiddleton. SUBTEXT. They seem to enjoy or revel in their evil actions too much and there no subtext of "god, what have I done" until they've been [=TnJ=]'d by Naruto. It makes what should have been rich and tragic character development seem cheap and pointless. They aren't Old Yeller that's turned into a rabid dog that needs to be put down to preserve the memory of your old friend. It's like they were rabid dogs all along, and Hashirama and Kakashi are TooDumbToLive idiots who were idiots (Yes, I've used that word twice but the situation is so incredibly stupid it calls for non-ironic emphasis) for pretending otherwise. And the Sage, dear god the Sage, the fucking Sage. By stating that Indra and Asura were reincarnating themselves in Mada and Hashi then Naruto and Sasuke, and that they've been repeating the same cycle of destiny over and over. But wait! Madara is too crazy for Indra and actually BREAKS the cycle. What was the theme of Part 1 again? Screw destiny! Yet we're supposed to think the "screwing destiny" thing is crap now that Naruto and Sasuke are fulfilling the Sage's dreams/destiny? As many fans have noted, long before this troper did, Madara is the hero the story deserved]].%%

to:

%%* Tropers/{{Lurkingal}}: I actually don't have a problem with most of the twists right now. I like Obito and Madara. My main problem is [[spoiler: HOW [[spoiler:how they are done. These characters' back-stories line up perfectly with their archetypes, roles, but the execution is SO THOROUGHLY LACKING. thoroughly lacking. I mean seriously, Madara was once a lonely, hurt boy who wished for peace yet got so twisted by the world he turned into a generic villain sue? WTF Kishimoto! Back-stories are supposed to FLESH OUT flesh out a character's present actions, to make them seem more justified. Instead they give me a glimpse of a What Had Been character that's more interesting, sympathetic, and believable than this shit-talking trash I've been reading week after week. I can get behind that Madara and Obito are, underneath it all: two traumatized boys that just want to fuck over this fucked up world and create a dream-world that's all lovey-dovey happiness because, hell, as sad as it is, that is a very real human feeling. I can get behind the fact they pretend to be cackling maniacs to conceal the pain and instability they feel inside as their world crumbles around them. I can relate to this being a genetic disorder that runs in the family. I really could. However, take a page from Tom Hiddleton. SUBTEXT. Subtext! They seem to enjoy or revel in their evil actions too much and there no subtext of "god, what have I done" until they've been [=TnJ=]'d by Naruto. It makes what should have been rich and tragic character development seem cheap and pointless. They aren't Old Yeller that's turned into a rabid dog that needs to be put down to preserve the memory of your old friend. It's like they were rabid dogs all along, and Hashirama and Kakashi are TooDumbToLive idiots who were idiots (Yes, I've used that word twice but the situation is so incredibly stupid it calls for non-ironic emphasis) for pretending otherwise. And the Sage, dear god the Sage, the fucking Sage. By stating that Indra and Asura were reincarnating themselves in Mada and Hashi then Naruto and Sasuke, and that they've been repeating the same cycle of destiny over and over. But wait! Madara is too crazy for Indra and actually BREAKS breaks the cycle. What was the theme of Part 1 again? Screw destiny! Yet we're supposed to think the "screwing destiny" thing is crap now that Naruto and Sasuke are fulfilling the Sage's dreams/destiny? As many fans have noted, long before this troper did, Madara is the hero the story deserved]].%%



** Doctor Sleep: Just the fact that Sakura and Ino get '''zero''' character development in terms of romance makes them look hopeless. Sasuke learns to love Sakura, Naruto learns to love Hinata, but Sakura still picks Sasuke over Lee while Ino compensates with Sai, who looks exactly like Sasuke. It sends out a message that girls should keep pining for their ideal man and ignore the guys out there who'll genuinely appreciate them.
* Nyame: Kaguya. For almost a decade we've designated Uchiha Madara (both real and fake) as the true BigBad, only for ''both'' to be usurped by someone who wasn't introduced to us until, at the most, '''''forty chapters ago'''''. To top it off, it's a GenericDoomsdayVillain with absolutely little to no characterization or any discernible motivations besides WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity. Say what you want about Tobi and Madara, but at least they had personalities, no matter how overpowered they ended up becoming. There was little to no foreshadowing about this happening, and the justifications for it came off as weak, if not downright impossible. Perhaps the only saving grace is that she lasted only ten chapters and that the final BigBad position went to Sasuke.

to:

** Doctor Sleep: Just the fact that Sakura and Ino get '''zero''' zero character development in terms of romance makes them look hopeless. Sasuke learns to love Sakura, Naruto learns to love Hinata, but Sakura still picks Sasuke over Lee while Ino compensates with Sai, who looks exactly like Sasuke. It sends out a message that girls should keep pining for their ideal man and ignore the guys out there who'll genuinely appreciate them.
* Nyame: Kaguya. For almost a decade we've designated Uchiha Madara (both real and fake) as the true BigBad, only for ''both'' both to be usurped by someone who wasn't introduced to us until, at the most, '''''forty a whopping forty chapters ago'''''.ago. To top it off, it's a GenericDoomsdayVillain with absolutely little to no characterization or any discernible motivations besides WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity. Say what you want about Tobi and Madara, but at least they had personalities, no matter how overpowered they ended up becoming. There was little to no foreshadowing about this happening, and the justifications for it came off as weak, if not downright impossible. Perhaps the only saving grace is that she lasted only ten chapters and that the final BigBad position went to Sasuke.



* Tropers/{{HeartlessandSoulless}}: Before the battle with Kakuzu, Kakashi teaches Naruto that doing training while using the kage bunshin jutsu is WAY faster (1 person = 1 hour of training and 1 person + 1 clone = 2 hours of training) and more effective; and if that were not enough, he specifically said that Naruto was the only one that could do it, because he has absurd amounts of chakra (ergo, he already knew about how the Uzumaki lineage/clan was special). I didn't pay this much mind until way after I was done with the manga, but as soon as it hit me, I was like: "WHAT THE FUCK, KAKASHI? Why the hell didn't you teach this to Naruto before, you bastard? Didn't you thought it would ever be useful?". This is what actually broke the illusion of the Naruto manga to me. Sure, it has its cool moments, but I can never take it seriously as a narrative again.

to:

* Tropers/{{HeartlessandSoulless}}: Before the battle with Kakuzu, Kakashi teaches Naruto that doing training while using the kage bunshin jutsu is WAY way faster (1 person = 1 hour of training and 1 person + 1 clone = 2 hours of training) and more effective; and if that were not enough, he specifically said that Naruto was the only one that could do it, because he has absurd amounts of chakra (ergo, he already knew about how the Uzumaki lineage/clan was special). I didn't pay this much mind until way after I was done with the manga, but as soon as it hit me, I was like: "WHAT THE FUCK, KAKASHI? "What the flying fuck, Kakashi? Why the hell didn't you teach this to Naruto before, you bastard? Didn't you thought it would ever be useful?". This is what actually broke the illusion of the Naruto manga to me. Sure, it has its cool moments, but I can never take it seriously as a narrative again.



* Typos: During the Hidan and Kakuzu Arc, Team 7 convenes at Kakashi's bedside to talk about next steps for reaching Sasuke. Sakura reveals the research she's been doing and asks what they can do. Kakashi reveals training for Naruto that both he and Yamato will be helping him on... leaving absolutely no consideration or training at all for Sakura. Really? BOTH instructors need to work with Naruto, and neither can be spared for Sakura?! That was bad enough, but then it got worse: when Team 10 went to avenge Asuma, Team 7 went after them as backup. OK, cool, with the exception of Shikamaru, it looks like we're gonna have some teamwork, right...? Uh, NOPE! Naruto gives his "hazardous bridge" talk to Kakashi, which translates to saying "I need to defeat this enemy alone so as to show off my new jutsu, even though he's technically Team 10's quarry!" and Kakashi eye-crinkles and says yes! As in, they pissed all over their "teamwork" theme that Kakashi preaches and Team 10 usually embodies! That was when I realized that Kishimoto really and truly didn't give a damn about teamwork and favored out-of-nowhere power-ups over character development, and that's when the manga went down the dumper for me. Sadly, I was proven right as the rest of the manga progressed.

to:

* Typos: During the Hidan and Kakuzu Arc, Team 7 convenes at Kakashi's bedside to talk about next steps for reaching Sasuke. Sakura reveals the research she's been doing and asks what they can do. Kakashi reveals training for Naruto that both he and Yamato will be helping him on... leaving absolutely no consideration or training at all for Sakura. Really? BOTH Both instructors need to work with Naruto, and neither can be spared for Sakura?! That was bad enough, but then it got worse: when Team 10 went to avenge Asuma, Team 7 went after them as backup. OK, cool, with the exception of Shikamaru, it looks like we're gonna have some teamwork, right...? Uh, NOPE! nope! Naruto gives his "hazardous bridge" talk to Kakashi, which translates to saying "I need to defeat this enemy alone so as to show off my new jutsu, even though he's technically Team 10's quarry!" and Kakashi eye-crinkles and says yes! As in, they pissed all over their "teamwork" theme that Kakashi preaches and Team 10 usually embodies! That was when I realized that Kishimoto really and truly didn't give a damn about teamwork and favored out-of-nowhere power-ups over character development, and that's when the manga went down the dumper for me. Sadly, I was proven right as the rest of the manga progressed.
25th Nov '17 9:37:36 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Tropers/{{HeartlessandSoulless}}: Before the battle with Kakuzu, Kakashi teaches Naruto that doing training while using the kage bunshin jutsu is WAY faster (1 person = 1 hour of training and 1 person + 1 clone = 2 hours of training) and more effective; and if that were not enough, he specifically said that Naruto was the only one that could do it, because he has absurd amounts of chakra (ergo, he already knew about how the Uzumaki lineage/clan was special). I didn't pay this much mind until way after I was done with the manga, but as soon as it hit me, I was like: "[[WhatTheHellHero WHAT THE FUCK, KAKASHI]]? Why the hell didn't you teach this to Naruto before, you bastard? Didn't you thought it would ever be useful?". This is what actually broke the illusion of the Naruto manga to me. Sure, it has its cool moments, but I can never take it seriously as a narrative again.

to:

* Tropers/{{HeartlessandSoulless}}: Before the battle with Kakuzu, Kakashi teaches Naruto that doing training while using the kage bunshin jutsu is WAY faster (1 person = 1 hour of training and 1 person + 1 clone = 2 hours of training) and more effective; and if that were not enough, he specifically said that Naruto was the only one that could do it, because he has absurd amounts of chakra (ergo, he already knew about how the Uzumaki lineage/clan was special). I didn't pay this much mind until way after I was done with the manga, but as soon as it hit me, I was like: "[[WhatTheHellHero WHAT "WHAT THE FUCK, KAKASHI]]? KAKASHI? Why the hell didn't you teach this to Naruto before, you bastard? Didn't you thought it would ever be useful?". This is what actually broke the illusion of the Naruto manga to me. Sure, it has its cool moments, but I can never take it seriously as a narrative again.
17th Jul '17 8:37:19 AM ajr1218
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* [=ajr1218=]: Tobi's true identity. Note that I am not spoiling this as the answer is [[TheUntwist so goddamn obvious]] and so base-breaking that it almost ruined the entire series for me (and I enjoy this series a lot), but let's just say it was not only completely obvious, but utterly implausible. Congrats, Kishimoto, you have a lot of freakin' explaining to do.


Added DiffLines:

* Tropers/{{ajr1218}}: Guy's fight against Madara, for two reasons: 1) The animation, and 2) the end result. Aside from the Night Guy, which turned out pretty [[AnimationBump kickass]] despite the Anime Time pace, Guy's prior 7th and 8th gate assaults were '''very''' poorly animated, made even more inexcusable by the months worth of filler beforehand. If Studio Pierrot were a respectable animation studio, they would have used the filler time to allow quality animators to do these ''very plot-critical'' scenes months in advance, rather that just [[CashCowFranchise milking the show]] and using their top animators for their shitty filler episodes. Secondly, the fact that Kishimoto made Guy's final kick connect [[ATeamFiring a few inches too far to the left]], completely sparing his heart and allowing his HealingFactor to kick in full gear, bringing him back to working order in a matter of seconds. Made even more insulting with Naruto coming in and overpowering Madara even faster than Guy, leading to the Tree ([[GiantSpaceFleaFromNowhere Kaguya's]] will) having Madara absorb it. Yes, even though there was a backup available for Madara, Guy's fight was copped out so that Naruto can steal the spotlight. Also, the way Naruto "healed" Guy is no better than [[RevengeOfTheSith the Sith's life-force stabilization]]. Guy was essentially [[AndIMustScream forced to live for 2 or so years of debilitating full-body 4th-degree burns that somehow managed to heal on their own]] (perhaps his time in the Infinite Tsukoyumi helped). Made even more insulting by the fact that Naruto has Kurama in him, known for its insane HealingFactor rivaling Madara's. Had Naruto used Kurama's power on Guy as well, he would have ended up in better shape... though at least 2 decades older due to the mass-scale cellular reconstruction.
31st May '17 6:48:51 PM ILikeRobots
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** {{Tropers/I Like Robots}}: I used to genuinely love this series. Early in its life ''Naruto'' caught my eye and felt like a breath of fresh air in comparison to other shonen series at the time. The series felt small, intimate and personal -- the stakes were relatively low in comparison to the planet-destroying conflicts of something like ''Manga/DragonBallZ'', the battles much more strategic than forceful, and the world more alive than other series I had read or seen. Naruto himself was a unique protagonist, in that he was the absolute ''epitome'' of ScrewDestiny, triumphing over genius and specially-powered person alike through sheer determination and will. The setup was great: Naruto was meant to be the hardworking everykid, unskilled and unrefined, without a special name or bloodline to fall back on, trying to make a name for himself in a world that either despised or looked down on him. Sasuke, as his {{foil}} and [[TheRival rival]] was meant to be the naturally talented one, the one with the prestigious bloodline and special powers. Granted, TheReveal that Naruto was the son of the Fourth Hokage started the trend of destroying the whole "Naruto is a normal kid" thing, and while the Nine-Tails gave him something of a leg up on others in the first place[[note]]Though it was lessened with the fact that he could not consciously control it at first[[/note]], it wasn't until the reveal that he is the reincarnation of Ashura and ''is'' in fact, part of a world- and ages-spanning prophecy that [[BrokenAesop the most important, central aesop of the series was torpedoed into oblivion]], and it all went downhill from there. Naruto and Sasuke kept getting special power up after special power up, the majority of other characters ceased being relevant due to being unable to come ''close'' to the marks set by Naruto and Sasuke, people started throwing mountain-sized attacks, flying, and the like, and it stopped even resembling the manga it had once been. Honestly, in my opinion, Kishimoto had a promising and interesting setup, but slowly drained ''Naruto'' of all of its good writing and entertainment value, not to mention its moral lessons. If Kishimoto wanted to avoid breaking his own aesop of "hard work trumps natural talent" and "ordinary people can be just as, if not more, powerful than those with special abilities," then [[BadassNormal Rock Lee]] should have been the protagonist of the series. [[ButtMonkey And we all know how the series treats him.]]
20th Mar '17 4:55:49 PM Typos
Is there an issue? Send a Message
20th Mar '17 4:55:06 PM Typos
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* Typos: During the Hidan and Kakuzu Arc, Team 7 convenes at Kakashi's bedside to talk about next steps for reaching Sasuke. Sakura reveals the research she's been doing and asks what they can do. Kakashi reveals training for Naruto that both he and Yamato will be helping him on... leaving absolutely no consideration or training at all for Sakura. Really? BOTH instructors need to work with Naruto, and neither can be spared for Sakura?! That was bad enough, but then it got worse: when Team 10 went to avenge Asuma, Team 7 went after them as backup. OK, cool, with the exception of Shikamaru, it looks like we're gonna have some teamwork, right...? Uh, NOPE! Naruto gives his "hazardous bridge" talk to Kakashi, which translates to saying "I need to defeat this enemy alone so as to show off my new jutsu, even though he's technically Team 10's quarry!" and Kakashi eye-crinkles and says yes! As in, they pissed all over their "teamwork" theme that Kakashi preaches and Team 10 usually embodies! That was when I realized that Kishimoto really and truly didn't give a damn about teamwork and favored out-of-nowhere power-ups over character development, and that's when the manga went down the dumper for me. Sadly, I was proven right as the rest of the manga progressed.
10th Mar '17 10:17:28 AM KantonKage
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* [=KantonKage=]: Chapter 9 of ''Manga/RockLeesSpringtimeOfYouth'' was simply turning Hinata into TheChewToy; she gets peed on, having multiple people crash into her, she's also in her AscendedFanon {{Flanderization}} meaning she passes out when she sees Naruto at the end. Who gets attacked by Neji for no reason.

to:

* [=KantonKage=]: Chapter 9 of ''Manga/RockLeesSpringtimeOfYouth'' Tropers/{{KantonKage}}: I was simply turning Hinata into TheChewToy; she gets peed on, having multiple people crash into her, she's also in her AscendedFanon {{Flanderization}} meaning she passes out when she sees Naruto at hard pressed to see which Uchiha redemption story I found to be complete bullshit. Then it hit me, it was Hashirama calling Itachi's better than him, seriously [[PunctuatedForEmphasis What! The! Fuck!]]. So all of a sudden the end. Who gets attacked by Neji guy who {{Mind Rape}}d his brother for no reason.three days straight twice and killed his girlfriend. Yet for some reason, he is this saintly hero who sacrificed everything for our sins.
26th Jul '16 3:20:44 PM Anddrix
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Tropers/RayneCyro: [[{{Asspull}} The Great Snake Escape.]] Let's run through the checklist: Killing off my favorite Akatsuki character not named Pain? Check. Having him die pointlessly? Check. Having him lose to [[BaseBreaker Sasuke?]] Check. Having Sasuke win by breaking the established rules of canon and pulling off something that shouldn't be possible for even the Fourth Hokage? Check.
* [=ajr1218=]: Tobi's true identity. Note that I am not spoiling this as the answer is [[TheUntwist so goddamn obvious]] and so [[BaseBreaker base-breaking]] that it almost ruined the entire series for me (and I enjoy this series a lot), but let's just say it was not only completely obvious, but utterly implausible. Congrats, Kishimoto, you have a lot of freakin' explaining to do.

to:

* Tropers/RayneCyro: [[{{Asspull}} The Great Snake Escape.]] Let's run through the checklist: Killing off my favorite Akatsuki character not named Pain? Check. Having him die pointlessly? Check. Having him lose to [[BaseBreaker [[BaseBreakingCharacter Sasuke?]] Check. Having Sasuke win by breaking the established rules of canon and pulling off something that shouldn't be possible for even the Fourth Hokage? Check.
* [=ajr1218=]: Tobi's true identity. Note that I am not spoiling this as the answer is [[TheUntwist so goddamn obvious]] and so [[BaseBreaker base-breaking]] base-breaking that it almost ruined the entire series for me (and I enjoy this series a lot), but let's just say it was not only completely obvious, but utterly implausible. Congrats, Kishimoto, you have a lot of freakin' explaining to do.
15th Jun '16 7:49:24 AM Berrenta
Is there an issue? Send a Message


%% Image removed per Image Pickin' thread: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1463170966093486300&page=1#12
%% Please start a new thread to discuss a new image.

to:

%%
%%
%% STAFF NOTICE
%%
%% Image removed per Image Pickin' thread: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1463170966093486300&page=1#12
php?discussion=1463170966093486300
%%
%% Please start a new thread Per the above thread, please do not add an image to discuss a new image.
this page. Thank you.
%%
%%
This list shows the last 10 events of 380. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=DethroningMoment.Naruto