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All the people that die in the film, and you're upset about goldfish?

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All the people that die in the film, and you're upset about goldfish?


* Tropers/SteleResolve: ''Film/{{Dogma}}'' was an all around hilarious movie, almost perfect. The one small thing keeping it from being a golden movie? The shit demon. Goddamn it, that was so unforgivably stupid. I mean, an extended toilet humor joke? Really? And the rest of the movie was laden with insightful and biting wit...

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* Tropers/SteleResolve: ''Film/{{Dogma}}'' was an all around hilarious movie, almost perfect. The one small thing keeping it from being a golden movie? The shit demon. Goddamn it, that was so unforgivably stupid. I mean, an extended toilet humor ToiletHumor joke? Really? And the rest of the movie was laden with insightful and biting wit...



* fluffything: I already despise ''Film/SimonBirch'' to begin with due to its copious amount of {{Glurge}} and because the titular character is a smug holier-than-thou JerkAss. But, to me, the absolute DMOS of that film is when Simon accidentally kills his friend's mother with a wayward baseball while playing a game. The circumstances that cause the whole thing are so contrived they'd be better off for an over-the-top comedy than what is supposed to be a TearJerker moment. Not to mention that it would be impossible for Simon to even be able to hit a baseball hard enough to kill a human being. It's just a forced way to make Simon (who is already an unlikeable character in my eyes) look sympathetic by accidentally causing a tragedy that would be, again, impossible for a person of his size to do. It's so utterly stupid that I still can't believe anyone would think it could be taken seriously.

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* fluffything: I already despise ''Film/SimonBirch'' to begin with due to its copious amount of {{Glurge}} and because the titular character is a smug holier-than-thou JerkAss.{{Jerkass}}. But, to me, the absolute DMOS of that film is when Simon accidentally kills his friend's mother with a wayward baseball while playing a game. The circumstances that cause the whole thing are so contrived they'd be better off for an over-the-top comedy than what is supposed to be a TearJerker moment. Not to mention that it would be impossible for Simon to even be able to hit a baseball hard enough to kill a human being. It's just a forced way to make Simon (who is already an unlikeable character in my eyes) look sympathetic by accidentally causing a tragedy that would be, again, impossible for a person of his size to do. It's so utterly stupid that I still can't believe anyone would think it could be taken seriously.



* Tropers/{{mewmdude77}}: In the original ''[[Film/TotalRecall1990 Total Recall]]'' there's a scene where the main bad guy, Cohaagen, gets mad, because Quiad escaped the Rekall machine. In his frustration, he kicks over a tank of goldfish, then we're shown the goldfish on the ground, slowly dying. I understand that Cohaagen is the bad guy, but there was no reason for this. A film should never resort to the villain needlessly killing animals just to show how evil they are. It's just extremely cruel, and it's so off-putting. Those fish were just swimming in their home, and now all of them are going to die. It's just obnoxious. I know seeing animals getting hurt brings anger, but it's close to the end of the movie. We already knew who Cohaagen is. Hammer your point that villains are villains in some other way Hollywood. I really love the original Total Recall, but this scene pisses me off to no end.
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** First up, after the surviving characters leg their way out of the destroyed Newtown Haven we soon find that not only has the pulse destroyed the town where it started, but now it has sent out a chain reaction of pulses that have wiped out all the advanced technology across Britain and presumably the rest of the world and has sent humanity back to the dark ages, WHAT? Okay, I could accept that in this world, some freaking aliens were behind the development of today’s telecommunications and computer technology, but First off, exactly how long have freaking aliens been influencing human technology, to begin with? In the movie, Basil claims that they arrived in Newtown Haven in 1990, which would make sense given the rise of the internet from then on, but even then, there’s a tattle-tale sign on the Newtown roundabout sign that hints aliens might have originally founded Newtown as far back as the 1900s! So, is this basically like in ''Series/AncientAliens'' where aliens have been influencing/living among humans since older times?\\

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** First up, after the surviving characters leg their way out of the destroyed Newtown Haven we soon find that not only has the pulse destroyed the town where it started, but now it has sent out a chain reaction of pulses that have wiped out all the advanced technology across Britain and presumably the rest of the world and has sent humanity back to the dark ages, WHAT? Okay, I could accept that in this world, some freaking aliens were behind the development of today’s telecommunications and computer technology, but First first off, exactly how long have freaking aliens been influencing human technology, to begin with? In the movie, Basil claims that they arrived in Newtown Haven in 1990, which would make sense given the rise of the internet from then on, but even then, there’s a tattle-tale sign on the Newtown roundabout sign that hints aliens might have originally founded Newtown as far back as the 1900s! So, is this basically like in ''Series/AncientAliens'' where aliens have been influencing/living among humans since older times?\\
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But it gets better..! now that technology is gone, Andy says that life is now simpler, and Gary King is looking to restore human civilization through a new movement to be "The King". Did none of the creators of this movie ever watch films like ''Film/TheDayAfter'' or ''Film/{{Threads}}''? The fact that the Alien pulse has wiped out their technology would also mean that it would have destroyed most of its infrastructure as well. And as with many poorly written apocalyptic disaster movies, this issue seems to be almost completely overlooked, as Andy only mentioned how a few people that weren’t converted into blanks lost their lives after the great pulse. Realistically, it is entirely possible that more people were wiped out by exposure/starvation than were simply mulched and replaced with blanks, and Gary and his posse were essentially partly to blame for this! Not because the whole blank program was something humans would have wanted to begin with, but because most humans didn’t even need to be replaced, to begin with, as the infrastructure was keeping them alive and well, to begin with.\\

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But it gets better..! now that technology is gone, Andy says that life is now simpler, and Gary King is looking to restore human civilization through a new movement to be "The King". Did none of the creators of this movie ever watch films like ''Film/TheDayAfter'' or ''Film/{{Threads}}''? The fact that the Alien pulse has wiped out their technology would also mean that it would have destroyed most of its infrastructure as well. And as with many poorly written apocalyptic disaster movies, this issue seems to be almost completely overlooked, as Andy only mentioned how a few people that weren’t converted into blanks lost their lives after the great pulse. Realistically, it is entirely possible that more people were wiped out by exposure/starvation than were simply mulched and replaced with blanks, and Gary and his posse were essentially partly to blame for this! Not because the whole blank program was something humans would have wanted to begin with, but because most humans didn’t even need to be replaced, to begin with, as the infrastructure was keeping them alive and well, to begin with.\\
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To top it all off, there is the idea that Gary’s quest would be a sign that humanity would be able to put itself back together again under the hopes of striking back at The Network once it was back to its former status. Again, this seems to ignore the notion that aliens have been influencing human technology for many years. And considering that the pulse has destroyed all infrastructure on Earth, basically, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero thanks to both The Network and Gary’s crew,]] [[EsotericHappyEnding all of humanity is now thoroughly screwed for a long time to come.]] ...Oh yeah, [[ArtifactTitle and there isn't even any]] [[TropesAreTools actual Mint Cornetto]] [[note]]Save for a wrapper[[/note]] [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking anywhere in the movie.]]

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To top it all off, there is the idea that Gary’s quest would be a sign that humanity would be able to put itself back together again under the hopes of striking back at The Network once it was back to its former status. Again, this seems to ignore the notion that aliens have been influencing human technology for many years. And considering that the pulse has destroyed all infrastructure on Earth, basically, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero thanks to both The Network and Gary’s crew,]] [[EsotericHappyEnding all of humanity is now thoroughly screwed for a long time to come.]] ...Oh yeah, [[ArtifactTitle and there isn't even any]] [[TropesAreTools actual Mint Cornetto]] [[note]]Save Cornetto]][[note]]Save for a wrapper[[/note]] [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking anywhere in the movie.]]
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To top it all off, there is the idea that Gary’s quest would be a sign that humanity would be able to put itself back together again under the hopes of striking back at The Network once it was back to its former status. Again, this seems to ignore the notion that aliens have been influencing human technology for many years. And considering that the pulse has destroyed all infrastructure on Earth, basically, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero thanks to both The Network and Gary’s crew,]] [[EsotericHappyEnding all of humanity is now thoroughly screwed for a long time to come.]]

to:

To top it all off, there is the idea that Gary’s quest would be a sign that humanity would be able to put itself back together again under the hopes of striking back at The Network once it was back to its former status. Again, this seems to ignore the notion that aliens have been influencing human technology for many years. And considering that the pulse has destroyed all infrastructure on Earth, basically, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero thanks to both The Network and Gary’s crew,]] [[EsotericHappyEnding all of humanity is now thoroughly screwed for a long time to come.]] ...Oh yeah, [[ArtifactTitle and there isn't even any]] [[TropesAreTools actual Mint Cornetto]] [[note]]Save for a wrapper[[/note]] [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking anywhere in the movie.]]
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Essentially, both the Network, and Gary’s crew are in some ways responsible for the film’s ending, whereas Gary and his friends simply freaked at the existential threat and the network’s vaguely socialist agenda of destroying free will between free men, The Network despite claiming to be an omnipotent and well-intentioned alien entity seemed to show absolutely no regards towards the idea that since all humans think independently, they would never be capable of seeing another person’s idea of "perfect" as their own idea of "perfect". This means that The Network, despite what it claims itself to be (calling humanity out as a bunch of "Fuckups" for their repeated cycles of self-destruction) [[Hypocrite is, in fact, committing the same "Fuckup" that many socialist human leaders have done in the past,]] (holding people against their will and probable existential genocide) which it might have also done on the other planets it claimed were more "developed"!\\

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Essentially, both the Network, and Gary’s crew are in some ways responsible for the film’s ending, whereas Gary and his friends simply freaked at the existential threat and the network’s vaguely socialist agenda of destroying free will between free men, The Network despite claiming to be an omnipotent and well-intentioned alien entity seemed to show absolutely no regards towards the idea that since all humans think independently, they would never be capable of seeing another person’s idea of "perfect" as their own idea of "perfect". This means that The Network, despite what it claims itself to be (calling humanity out as a bunch of "Fuckups" for their repeated cycles of self-destruction) [[Hypocrite [[{{Hypocrite}} is, in fact, committing the same "Fuckup" that many socialist human leaders have done in the past,]] (holding people against their will and probable existential genocide) which it might have also done on the other planets it claimed were more "developed"!\\

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Essentially, both the Network, and Gary’s crew are in some ways responsible for the film’s ending, whereas Gary and his friends simply freaked at the existential threat and the network’s vaguely socialist agenda of destroying free will between free men, The Network despite claiming to be an omnipotent and well-intentioned alien entity seemed to show absolutely no regards towards the idea that since all humans think independently, they would never be capable of seeing another person’s idea of "perfect" as their own idea of "perfect". This means that The Network, despite what it claims itself to be (calling humanity out as a bunch of "Fuckups" for their repeated cycles of self-destruction) is in fact committing the same ‘Fuckup’ that many socialist human leaders have done in the past, (holding people against their will and probable existential genocide) which it might have also done on the other planets it claimed were more "developed"!\\

to:

Essentially, both the Network, and Gary’s crew are in some ways responsible for the film’s ending, whereas Gary and his friends simply freaked at the existential threat and the network’s vaguely socialist agenda of destroying free will between free men, The Network despite claiming to be an omnipotent and well-intentioned alien entity seemed to show absolutely no regards towards the idea that since all humans think independently, they would never be capable of seeing another person’s idea of "perfect" as their own idea of "perfect". This means that The Network, despite what it claims itself to be (calling humanity out as a bunch of "Fuckups" for their repeated cycles of self-destruction) is [[Hypocrite is, in fact fact, committing the same ‘Fuckup’ "Fuckup" that many socialist human leaders have done in the past, past,]] (holding people against their will and probable existential genocide) which it might have also done on the other planets it claimed were more "developed"!\\"developed"!\\
\\
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-->NC: (sighs) I'm the Nostalgia Critic, and... [[Literature/Dreamcatcher Happy flushing.]]

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-->NC: (sighs) I'm the Nostalgia Critic, and... [[Literature/Dreamcatcher [[Literature/{{Dreamcatcher}} Happy flushing.]]
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* larry4163: [[Film/BloodAndIceCreamTrilogy The Three Flavours Cornetto Trilogy]] films are all far from being bad films. That being said, the third and final film, ''Film/TheWorldsEnd'' can, for the most part, be considered just as funny, touching and epic as the two films that came before it. That is, all except for one very important part of the film that it caps of the entire trilogy with, that being right after the thrilling climax of the film, we get the ending and resolution to the film. And [[PunctuatedForEmphasis Oh, My, Gracious]] is this a truly shark-jumpingly stupid [[AssPull let down of an ending]] not just to the film, but to the entire trilogy as a whole!
**First up, after the surviving characters leg their way out of the destroyed Newtown Haven we soon find that not only has the pulse destroyed the town where it started, but now it has sent out a chain reaction of pulses that have wiped out all the advanced technology across Britain and presumably the rest of the world and has sent humanity back to the dark ages, WHAT? Okay, I could accept that in this world, some freaking aliens were behind the development of today’s telecommunications and computer technology, but First off, exactly how long have freaking aliens been influencing human technology, to begin with? In the movie, Basil claims that they arrived in Newtown Haven in 1990, which would make sense given the rise of the internet from then on, but even then, there’s a tattle-tale sign on the Newtown roundabout sign that hints aliens might have originally founded Newtown as far back as the 1900s! So, is this basically like in ''Series/AncientAliens'' where aliens have been influencing/living among humans since older times?\\
\\
Further on, as the epilogue unravels, we suddenly find that there are more blanks outside of Newtown, presumably from other penetration spots, or so it would seem, as given there are now many of them, are we now supposed to assume that this whole time Britain’s major population centers were populated with humanoid robots without once making a slip up? No resistance movement, no unrest, just a happy population? And not because of an easier lifestyle but instead because they got replaced by robots?\\
\\
But it gets better..! now that technology is gone, Andy says that life is now simpler, and Gary King is looking to restore human civilization through a new movement to be "The King". Did none of the creators of this movie ever watch films like ''Film/TheDayAfter'' or ''Film/{{Threads}}''? The fact that the Alien pulse has wiped out their technology would also mean that it would have destroyed most of its infrastructure as well. And as with many poorly written apocalyptic disaster movies, this issue seems to be almost completely overlooked, as Andy only mentioned how a few people that weren’t converted into blanks lost their lives after the great pulse. Realistically, it is entirely possible that more people were wiped out by exposure/starvation than were simply mulched and replaced with blanks, and Gary and his posse were essentially partly to blame for this! Not because the whole blank program was something humans would have wanted to begin with, but because most humans didn’t even need to be replaced, to begin with, as the infrastructure was keeping them alive and well, to begin with.\\
\\
Essentially, both the Network, and Gary’s crew are in some ways responsible for the film’s ending, whereas Gary and his friends simply freaked at the existential threat and the network’s vaguely socialist agenda of destroying free will between free men, The Network despite claiming to be an omnipotent and well-intentioned alien entity seemed to show absolutely no regards towards the idea that since all humans think independently, they would never be capable of seeing another person’s idea of "perfect" as their own idea of "perfect". This means that The Network, despite what it claims itself to be (calling humanity out as a bunch of "Fuckups" for their repeated cycles of self-destruction) is in fact committing the same ‘Fuckup’ that many socialist human leaders have done in the past, (holding people against their will and probable existential genocide) which it might have also done on the other planets it claimed were more "developed"!\\
To top it all off, there is the idea that Gary’s quest would be a sign that humanity would be able to put itself back together again under the hopes of striking back at The Network once it was back to its former status. Again, this seems to ignore the notion that aliens have been influencing human technology for many years. And considering that the pulse has destroyed all infrastructure on Earth, basically, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero thanks to both The Network and Gary’s crew,]] [[EsotericHappyEnding all of humanity is now thoroughly screwed for a long time to come.]]
**I would also like to add how the film’s portrayal of blanks seems to be based heavily on a general depiction of Millennials as non-social, liberal-minded and not good at responding to social interaction. To quote the Nostalgia Critic:
-->NC: Of course. Chester was an alien all along. That's why he acted so strange. That's why he was different from everyone else.
-->(NC smiles in relief but then turns to see...Chester, who's alive and well)
-->Chester: No. That was just an alien disguised as me. I'm still really here.
-->NC: Oh.
-->(Awkward silence occurs)
-->Chester: You really think all of my mental problems is because I was an alien, huh?!
-->NC: (stutters) It's not like that...
-->Chester: No, no, no, no! I get it! It can't be because of how I was born or my environment! Clearly, being an alien explains it just as well!
-->NC: No, I...
-->Chester: It's like if an Asian person walks by, and I'm like, "Ooh! Maybe he looks that way because he's an alien!" It's a perfectly legit reason! (NC sighs and rubs his forehead in shame) I hope I will be seen as more than just an excuse for your stereotypes, sir! (Beat) Now, if you'll excuse me, I have serious work to do. (He takes out his cup and goes back into the prop room, shaking the cup and yelling...) CHANGE?! Ya got change?! Oh, come on, help a guy out, will ya?
-->NC: (sighs) I'm the Nostalgia Critic, and... [[Literature/Dreamcatcher Happy flushing.]]

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Moved all entries to the Star Wars page.


* ''DethroningMoment/StarWars''



* Tropers/{{cricri3007}}: ''Film/TheForceAwakens'' was a very nice movie, but the crowning moment of [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot wasted potential]] is the battle of Takonda where Finn, an ex-Stormtrooper, have to fight the First Order. Does he hesitate killing them, knowing that he could having been talking to them not a week ago? Knowing that they are brainwashed from a young age into believing the First Order's right? Does he have anything resembling fragment of his brainwashing coming back up to haunt him ? No! He kills them without any ounce of remorse or hesitation.
** Miracle @ St. Olaf: What makes it so bad is that they went to the trouble of establishing Stormtroopers as being kidnapped and brainwashed from childhood, and thus also tragic victims of the First Order's machinations. From there, though, the film proceeds to ignore that setup for everyone except Finn, along with all the interesting possibilities for conflict that it introduces, and simply depicts them all as bog-standard mooks for our heroes to kill by the cartload. It's not a bad idea to try introducing some shades of grey into a universe that otherwise uses BlackAndWhiteMorality, but for the love of God, don't half-ass it; giving Stormtroopers a sympathetic background as forced conscripts and leaving it at that just makes watching them get slaughtered a lot more uncomfortable than it used to be, back when they were just implied to be an all-volunteer evil army.
** Tropers/{{Peridonyx}}: For me, it's the sheer HappyEndingOverride over ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''. Sure, ''Franchise/StarWarsLegends'' also invoked RealityEnsues regarding the Battle of Endor, the New Republic, the New Jedi Order, etc., but at least it was all done in a way that didn't make you feel like you'd just watched a glorified ShootTheShaggyDog story. The same, however, can't be said for the state of affairs in this film: The heroes are still at a major disadvantage (arguably even a worse one than before), the villains are still so overpowering (complete with yet another FallenHero acting as TheDragon, not to mention a UpToEleven version of the Death Star), and the New Jedi Order was taken down even far easier than the one in the Prequels (thus technically making Luke a FailureHero despite all his CharacterDevelopment in the Originals -- and off-screen on top of it). So what's the point of getting invested in the heroes if pretty much all their accomplishments are just going to be {{Retcon}}ned away between movies regardless?
** Tropers/{{Allronix}}: Much as I mentioned above, the cherry on top of the mess? Luke Skywalker pulling the same stunt as Kevin Flynn above. He runs off to a scenic location to pout...excuse me, "meditate" while leaving his friends, family, and allies to clean up the mess while his crazed nephew actively trashes everything he and his loved ones worked for. At least when it was Jacen pulling this crap in the old EU, Luke was the first to go after him. I do hope Leia tears him a new one.



* Bobg: I don't care about Victor Salva's past. He did his time and has every right to go back to making films, and I hate those who try to bring up a person's past and use it as an excuse to boycott their work when there is no connection between the two. I hate them even more when they have the gall to insult people for paying for and supporting those works. No I don't hate ''Film/JeepersCreepers 3'' for the fact that it was made by Victor Salva. I hate it for the scene where the protagonists find out what the Creeper is and the film says "Fuck you" to the audience by not telling us. We waited 14 years for the film, with it being promised for all of those years that when it came out, it would reveal the Creeper's origin. This continued when the trailer was finally released. Than the film comes out and they break their promise and tease the audience. The way they promised to reveal what it is but only let the characters learn while hiding it from the audience, and than doing a sequel tease at the end just screams "We lied. Wait several more years and you MAY find out." Well fuck you. You deliberately tease us with that scene and refuse to tell us after you promised you would. Not only does this scene break a promise, but it also makes the entire movie pointless. Since the film takes place between 1 and 2, we know he's gonna be alive at the end, so the only point to this film would be to reveal his origin, which does not happen.
* Tropers/{{Peridonyx}}: ''Film/TheLastJedi''. My chosen moment is [[spoiler:Snoke's DiscOneFinalBoss death]]; after all that hype and mystique, those implications of [[spoiler:him]] being an interesting {{Foil}} to [[spoiler:Palpatine]], etc., [[spoiler:he]] turns out to be a complete waste just for the sake of a ShockingSwerve. Say what you will about the Prequels; at least they didn't make me feel this level of DarknessInducedAudienceApathy and/or EightDeadlyWords.
** Troper/DrZulu2010: For me it has to be what the fight between [[spoiler: Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker]]. Did I say fight? I meant [[spoiler: HumiliationConga where Ren flails his lightsaber to Luke while Luke gives him a ReasonYouSuckSpeech while being in ''astral projection''.]] This was after [[spoiler: he killed Snoke cementing himself as the BigBad, which I enjoyed since that means that the climax of Episode 9 won't be a rehash of ''Return of the Jedi'' and gave Kylo some needed credibility as a villain,]] so you'd expect they would make [[spoiler: him]] into a credible villain but nope. At least [[spoiler: his grandfather Anakin]] became a dangerous badass when he became [[spoiler: Darth Vader]] near the end of ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' and he was my most hated character in all of ''Star Wars'' (even more than Jar Jar). [[spoiler: Kylo]] already has a bad time to become credible [[spoiler: after being on the recieving side of a CurbStompBattle by Rey, who never wielded a lightsaber by this point,]] so how did Creator/JJAbrams expect that this loser can be seen as a credible threat with a sad track record? Pathetic villains work if they are secondary villains or henchmen or if the movie is comical or lighthearted in nature, but not in a god damned serious drama because that would make the heroes incompetent by proxy if they can't handle a bunch of losers.
** Troper/cricri3007: Leia [[spoiler:surviving being in a room that got shot to piece, being in space, and]] using the Force [[spoiler:to fly to the ship so she can be rescued]] when 1) Nowhere is it stated that she got training in using it, 2) Everyone else [[spoiler:in the room]] died, 3) [[{{Narm}} the way it's filmed is incredibly hard to take seriously]]. Having her died thusly would have also been a great sendoff to Creator/CarrieFisher.
*** Troper/{{Retloclive}}: [[spoiler:Admiral Ackbar getting [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter unceremoniously killed off]]]] in this exact scene was a horrible send off for a character that has become a huge ''Star Wars'' cultural icon. If he was going [[spoiler:to die in this movie, they could have at the very least given him a much better sendoff]]. Like, I didn't care one bit for the Vice Admiral Holdo character. How much cooler would ''that'' scene have been had it been [[spoiler:Ackbar that got to pull the HeroicSacrifice]] rather than a brand new character that was all of a sudden introduced to the viewers?
** Troper/Edgar81539: For me, it's the complete character assassination of Luke. Let's go through most of the stuff he went through in the Original Trilogy: he had his parents and mentor killed, most of his friends died in battle with the Empire, he discovered that the guy that killed his mentor and the second hand of the Emperor (with all the atrocities it entailed) was his father, faced certain death multiple times and was the pet project of Palpatine. And yet, even under his influence and having a known genocidist at his mercy, Luke didn't budge. He knew his father goodness was still alive in the inside and was almost tortured to death for that faith. Now, let's compared that with his actions here. [[spoiler: Leia and Han felt that Ben was being pulled by the Dark Side, and fearing another Darth Vader, sent him to train with his uncle. Luke senses that Ben is being influenced by Snoke. Someone would expect that Luke, knowing first hand how terrible being influenced by such powerful forces is, along with his blood ties to the boy, helps him. Instead, he chooses to kill him on his sleep. He backs down on the last moment, but not before Ben realizes what he was trying to do and, scared, starts his life as Kylo Ren.]] Luke is reduced to nothing more than a plot device and regresses on his development so much you wouldn't even realize it's the same character. Luke deserved nothing but respect yet was treated like trash throughout the entire movie, culminating with his [[spoiler: lame duel with Kylo Ren and becoming one with the Force in the end.]] We get it, a story needs to be told about the new generation. But not at the expense of one of the most iconics characters in cinema history.

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* Bobg: I don't care about Victor Salva's past. He did his time and has every right to go back to making films, and I hate those who try to bring up a person's past and use it as an excuse to boycott their work when there is no connection between the two. I hate them even more when they have the gall to insult people for paying for and supporting those works. No I don't hate ''Film/JeepersCreepers 3'' for the fact that it was made by Victor Salva. I hate it for the scene where the protagonists find out what the Creeper is and the film says "Fuck you" to the audience by not telling us. We waited 14 years for the film, with it being promised for all of those years that when it came out, it would reveal the Creeper's origin. This continued when the trailer was finally released. Than the film comes out and they break their promise and tease the audience. The way they promised to reveal what it is but only let the characters learn while hiding it from the audience, and than doing a sequel tease at the end just screams "We lied. Wait several more years and you MAY find out." Well fuck you. You deliberately tease us with that scene and refuse to tell us after you promised you would. Not only does this scene break a promise, but it also makes the entire movie pointless. Since the film takes place between 1 and 2, we know he's gonna be alive at the end, so the only point to this film would be to reveal his origin, which does not happen.
* Tropers/{{Peridonyx}}: ''Film/TheLastJedi''. My chosen moment is [[spoiler:Snoke's DiscOneFinalBoss death]]; after all that hype and mystique, those implications of [[spoiler:him]] being an interesting {{Foil}} to [[spoiler:Palpatine]], etc., [[spoiler:he]] turns out to be a complete waste just for the sake of a ShockingSwerve. Say what you will about the Prequels; at least they didn't make me feel this level of DarknessInducedAudienceApathy and/or EightDeadlyWords.
** Troper/DrZulu2010: For me it has to be what the fight between [[spoiler: Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker]]. Did I say fight? I meant [[spoiler: HumiliationConga where Ren flails his lightsaber to Luke while Luke gives him a ReasonYouSuckSpeech while being in ''astral projection''.]] This was after [[spoiler: he killed Snoke cementing himself as the BigBad, which I enjoyed since that means that the climax of Episode 9 won't be a rehash of ''Return of the Jedi'' and gave Kylo some needed credibility as a villain,]] so you'd expect they would make [[spoiler: him]] into a credible villain but nope. At least [[spoiler: his grandfather Anakin]] became a dangerous badass when he became [[spoiler: Darth Vader]] near the end of ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' and he was my most hated character in all of ''Star Wars'' (even more than Jar Jar). [[spoiler: Kylo]] already has a bad time to become credible [[spoiler: after being on the recieving side of a CurbStompBattle by Rey, who never wielded a lightsaber by this point,]] so how did Creator/JJAbrams expect that this loser can be seen as a credible threat with a sad track record? Pathetic villains work if they are secondary villains or henchmen or if the movie is comical or lighthearted in nature, but not in a god damned serious drama because that would make the heroes incompetent by proxy if they can't handle a bunch of losers.
** Troper/cricri3007: Leia [[spoiler:surviving being in a room that got shot to piece, being in space, and]] using the Force [[spoiler:to fly to the ship so she can be rescued]] when 1) Nowhere is it stated that she got training in using it, 2) Everyone else [[spoiler:in the room]] died, 3) [[{{Narm}} the way it's filmed is incredibly hard to take seriously]]. Having her died thusly would have also been a great sendoff to Creator/CarrieFisher.
*** Troper/{{Retloclive}}: [[spoiler:Admiral Ackbar getting [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter unceremoniously killed off]]]] in this exact scene was a horrible send off for a character that has become a huge ''Star Wars'' cultural icon. If he was going [[spoiler:to die in this movie, they could have at the very least given him a much better sendoff]]. Like, I didn't care one bit for the Vice Admiral Holdo character. How much cooler would ''that'' scene have been had it been [[spoiler:Ackbar that got to pull the HeroicSacrifice]] rather than a brand new character that was all of a sudden introduced to the viewers?
** Troper/Edgar81539: For me, it's the complete character assassination of Luke. Let's go through most of the stuff he went through in the Original Trilogy: he had his parents and mentor killed, most of his friends died in battle with the Empire, he discovered that the guy that killed his mentor and the second hand of the Emperor (with all the atrocities it entailed) was his father, faced certain death multiple times and was the pet project of Palpatine. And yet, even under his influence and having a known genocidist at his mercy, Luke didn't budge. He knew his father goodness was still alive in the inside and was almost tortured to death for that faith. Now, let's compared that with his actions here. [[spoiler: Leia and Han felt that Ben was being pulled by the Dark Side, and fearing another Darth Vader, sent him to train with his uncle. Luke senses that Ben is being influenced by Snoke. Someone would expect that Luke, knowing first hand how terrible being influenced by such powerful forces is, along with his blood ties to the boy, helps him. Instead, he chooses to kill him on his sleep. He backs down on the last moment, but not before Ben realizes what he was trying to do and, scared, starts his life as Kylo Ren.]] Luke is reduced to nothing more than a plot device and regresses on his development so much you wouldn't even realize it's the same character. Luke deserved nothing but respect yet was treated like trash throughout the entire movie, culminating with his [[spoiler: lame duel with Kylo Ren and becoming one with the Force in the end.]] We get it, a story needs to be told about the new generation. But not at the expense of one of the most iconics characters in cinema history.
happen.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Troper/DrZulu2010: For me it has to be what the fight between [[spoiler: Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker]]. Did I say fight? I meant [[spoiler: HumilliationConga where Ren flails his lightsaber to Luke while Luke gives him a ReasonYouSuckSpeech while being in ''astral projection''.]] This was after [[spoiler: he killed Snoke cementing himself as the BigBad, which I enjoyed since that means that the climax of Episode 9 won't be a rehash of Return of the Jedi and gave Kylo some needed credibility as a villain,]] so you'd expect they would make [[spoiler: him]] into a credible villain but nope. At least [[spoiler: his grandfather Anakin]] became a dangerous badass when he became [[spoiler: Darth Vader]] near the end of Film/RevengeOfTheSith and he was my most hated character in all of Star Wars (even more than Jar Jar). [[spoiler: Kylo]] already has a bad time to become credible [[spoiler: after being on the recieving side of a CurbStompBattle by Rey, who never wielded a lightsaber by this point,]] so how did JJ Abrams expected that this loser can be seen as a credible threat with a sad track record. Pathetic villains work if they are secondary villains or henchmen or if the movie is comical or lighthearted in nature, but not in a god damned serious drama because that would make the heroes incompetent by proxy if they can't handle a bunch of losers.
** Troper/cricri3007: Leia [[spoiler:surviving being in a room that got shot to piece, being in space, and]] using the Force [[spoiler:to fly to the ship so she can be rescued]] when 1)Nowhere is it stated that she got training in using it, 2)Everyone else [[spoiler:in the room]] died, 3) [[{{Narm}} the way it's filmed is incredibly hard to take seriously]]. Having her died thusly would have also been a great sendoff to Carrie Fisher.

to:

** Troper/DrZulu2010: For me it has to be what the fight between [[spoiler: Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker]]. Did I say fight? I meant [[spoiler: HumilliationConga HumiliationConga where Ren flails his lightsaber to Luke while Luke gives him a ReasonYouSuckSpeech while being in ''astral projection''.]] This was after [[spoiler: he killed Snoke cementing himself as the BigBad, which I enjoyed since that means that the climax of Episode 9 won't be a rehash of Return ''Return of the Jedi Jedi'' and gave Kylo some needed credibility as a villain,]] so you'd expect they would make [[spoiler: him]] into a credible villain but nope. At least [[spoiler: his grandfather Anakin]] became a dangerous badass when he became [[spoiler: Darth Vader]] near the end of Film/RevengeOfTheSith ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' and he was my most hated character in all of Star Wars ''Star Wars'' (even more than Jar Jar). [[spoiler: Kylo]] already has a bad time to become credible [[spoiler: after being on the recieving side of a CurbStompBattle by Rey, who never wielded a lightsaber by this point,]] so how did JJ Abrams expected Creator/JJAbrams expect that this loser can be seen as a credible threat with a sad track record. record? Pathetic villains work if they are secondary villains or henchmen or if the movie is comical or lighthearted in nature, but not in a god damned serious drama because that would make the heroes incompetent by proxy if they can't handle a bunch of losers.
** Troper/cricri3007: Leia [[spoiler:surviving being in a room that got shot to piece, being in space, and]] using the Force [[spoiler:to fly to the ship so she can be rescued]] when 1)Nowhere 1) Nowhere is it stated that she got training in using it, 2)Everyone 2) Everyone else [[spoiler:in the room]] died, 3) [[{{Narm}} the way it's filmed is incredibly hard to take seriously]]. Having her died thusly would have also been a great sendoff to Carrie Fisher.Creator/CarrieFisher.



** Troper/Edgar81539: For me, it's the complete character assassination of Luke. Let's go through most of the stuff he went through in the Original Trilogy: he had his parents and mentor killed, most of his friends died in battle with the Empire, he discovered that the guy that killed his mentor and the second hand of the Emperor (with all the atrocities it entailed) was his father, faced certain death multiple times and was the pet project of Palpatine. And yet, even under his influence and having a known genocidist at his mercy, Luke didn't budge. He knew his father goodness was still alive in the inside and was almost tortured to death for that faith. Now, let's compared that with his actions here. [[spoiler: Leia and Han felt that Ben was being pulled by the Dark Side, and fearing another Darth Vader, sent him to train with his uncle. Luke senses that Ben is being influenced by Snoke. Someone would expect that Luke, knowing first hand how terrible being influenced by such powerful forces is, along with his blood ties to the boy, helps him. Instead, he choses to kill him on his sleep. He backs down on the last moment, but not before Ben realizes what he was trying to do and, scared, starts his life as Kylo Ren.]] Luke is reduced to nothing more than a plot device and regresses on his development so much you wouldn't even realize it's the same character. Luke deserved nothing but respect yet was treated like trash throughout the entire movie, culminating with his [[spoiler: lame duel with Kylo Ren and becoming one with the Force in the end.]] We get it, a story needs to be told about the new generation. But not at the expense of one of the most iconics characters in cinema history.

to:

** Troper/Edgar81539: For me, it's the complete character assassination of Luke. Let's go through most of the stuff he went through in the Original Trilogy: he had his parents and mentor killed, most of his friends died in battle with the Empire, he discovered that the guy that killed his mentor and the second hand of the Emperor (with all the atrocities it entailed) was his father, faced certain death multiple times and was the pet project of Palpatine. And yet, even under his influence and having a known genocidist at his mercy, Luke didn't budge. He knew his father goodness was still alive in the inside and was almost tortured to death for that faith. Now, let's compared that with his actions here. [[spoiler: Leia and Han felt that Ben was being pulled by the Dark Side, and fearing another Darth Vader, sent him to train with his uncle. Luke senses that Ben is being influenced by Snoke. Someone would expect that Luke, knowing first hand how terrible being influenced by such powerful forces is, along with his blood ties to the boy, helps him. Instead, he choses chooses to kill him on his sleep. He backs down on the last moment, but not before Ben realizes what he was trying to do and, scared, starts his life as Kylo Ren.]] Luke is reduced to nothing more than a plot device and regresses on his development so much you wouldn't even realize it's the same character. Luke deserved nothing but respect yet was treated like trash throughout the entire movie, culminating with his [[spoiler: lame duel with Kylo Ren and becoming one with the Force in the end.]] We get it, a story needs to be told about the new generation. But not at the expense of one of the most iconics characters in cinema history.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Troper/{{Retloclive}}: [[spoiler:Admiral Ackbar's getting [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter unceremoniously killed off]]]] in this exact scene was a horrible send off for a character that has become a huge ''Star Wars'' cultural icon. If he was going [[spoiler:to die in this movie, they could have at the very least given him a much better sendoff]]. Like, I didn't care one bit for the Vice Admiral Holdo character. How much cooler would ''that'' scene have been had it been [[spoiler:Ackbar that got to pull the HeroicSacrifice]] rather than a brand new character that was all of a sudden introduced to the viewers?

to:

*** Troper/{{Retloclive}}: [[spoiler:Admiral Ackbar's Ackbar getting [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter unceremoniously killed off]]]] in this exact scene was a horrible send off for a character that has become a huge ''Star Wars'' cultural icon. If he was going [[spoiler:to die in this movie, they could have at the very least given him a much better sendoff]]. Like, I didn't care one bit for the Vice Admiral Holdo character. How much cooler would ''that'' scene have been had it been [[spoiler:Ackbar that got to pull the HeroicSacrifice]] rather than a brand new character that was all of a sudden introduced to the viewers?
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None

Added DiffLines:

*** Troper/{{Retloclive}}: [[spoiler:Admiral Ackbar's getting [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter unceremoniously killed off]]]] in this exact scene was a horrible send off for a character that has become a huge ''Star Wars'' cultural icon. If he was going [[spoiler:to die in this movie, they could have at the very least given him a much better sendoff]]. Like, I didn't care one bit for the Vice Admiral Holdo character. How much cooler would ''that'' scene have been had it been [[spoiler:Ackbar that got to pull the HeroicSacrifice]] rather than a brand new character that was all of a sudden introduced to the viewers?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Hiding your extra moments behind a note is such a cheat.


* Tropers/{{Peridonyx}}: ''Film/TheLastJedi'' has multiple contenders [[note]]Rey's parents turning out to be [[spoiler:complete nobodies (meaning she can't be the silver lining in the now-completely-screwed Skywalker bloodline after all)]], Luke's [[spoiler:HeroicSacrifice (that's frankly TooSoon after ''The Force Awakens'' already killed Han off, thus making the Sequels feel like a ''Game of Thrones''-style KillEmAll against longtime fans' nostalgia)]], etc.[[/note]], actually. But my chosen moment is [[spoiler:Snoke's DiscOneFinalBoss death]]; after all that hype and mystique, those implications of [[spoiler:him]] being an interesting {{Foil}} to [[spoiler:Palpatine]], etc., [[spoiler:he]] turns out to be a complete waste just for the sake of a ShockingSwerve. Say what you will about the Prequels; at least they didn't make me feel this level of DarknessInducedAudienceApathy and/or EightDeadlyWords.

to:

* Tropers/{{Peridonyx}}: ''Film/TheLastJedi'' has multiple contenders [[note]]Rey's parents turning out to be [[spoiler:complete nobodies (meaning she can't be the silver lining in the now-completely-screwed Skywalker bloodline after all)]], Luke's [[spoiler:HeroicSacrifice (that's frankly TooSoon after ''The Force Awakens'' already killed Han off, thus making the Sequels feel like a ''Game of Thrones''-style KillEmAll against longtime fans' nostalgia)]], etc.[[/note]], actually. But my ''Film/TheLastJedi''. My chosen moment is [[spoiler:Snoke's DiscOneFinalBoss death]]; after all that hype and mystique, those implications of [[spoiler:him]] being an interesting {{Foil}} to [[spoiler:Palpatine]], etc., [[spoiler:he]] turns out to be a complete waste just for the sake of a ShockingSwerve. Say what you will about the Prequels; at least they didn't make me feel this level of DarknessInducedAudienceApathy and/or EightDeadlyWords.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Troper/DrZulu2010: For me it has to be what the fight between [[spoiler: Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker]]. Did I say fight? I meant [[spoiler: HumilliationConga where Ren flails his lightsaber to Luke while Luke gives him a ReasonYouSuckSpeech while being in ''astral projection''.]] This was after [[spoiler: he killed Snoke cementing himself as the BigBad]] so you'd expect they would make [[spoiler: him]] into a credible villain but nope. At least [[spoiler: his grandfather Anakin]] became a dangerous badass when he became [[spoiler: Darth Vader]] near the end of Film/RevengeOfTheSith and he was my most hated character in all of Star Wars (even more than Jar Jar). [[spoiler: Kylo]] already has a bad time to become credible [[spoiler: after being on the recieving side of a CurbStompBattle by Rey, who never wielded a lightsaber by this point,]] so how did JJ Abrams expected that this loser can be seen as a credible threat with a sad track record. Pathetic villains work if they are secondary villains or henchmen or if the movie is comical or lighthearted in nature, but not in a god damned serious drama because that would make the heroes incompetent by proxy if they can't handle a bunch of losers.

to:

** Troper/DrZulu2010: For me it has to be what the fight between [[spoiler: Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker]]. Did I say fight? I meant [[spoiler: HumilliationConga where Ren flails his lightsaber to Luke while Luke gives him a ReasonYouSuckSpeech while being in ''astral projection''.]] This was after [[spoiler: he killed Snoke cementing himself as the BigBad]] BigBad, which I enjoyed since that means that the climax of Episode 9 won't be a rehash of Return of the Jedi and gave Kylo some needed credibility as a villain,]] so you'd expect they would make [[spoiler: him]] into a credible villain but nope. At least [[spoiler: his grandfather Anakin]] became a dangerous badass when he became [[spoiler: Darth Vader]] near the end of Film/RevengeOfTheSith and he was my most hated character in all of Star Wars (even more than Jar Jar). [[spoiler: Kylo]] already has a bad time to become credible [[spoiler: after being on the recieving side of a CurbStompBattle by Rey, who never wielded a lightsaber by this point,]] so how did JJ Abrams expected that this loser can be seen as a credible threat with a sad track record. Pathetic villains work if they are secondary villains or henchmen or if the movie is comical or lighthearted in nature, but not in a god damned serious drama because that would make the heroes incompetent by proxy if they can't handle a bunch of losers.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Troper/cricri3007: Leia [[spoiler:surviving being in a room that got shot to piece, being in space, and]] using the Force [[spoiler:to fly to the ship so she can be rescued]] when 1)Nowhere is it stated that she got training in using it, 2)Everyone else [[spoiler:in the room]] died, 3) [[{{Narm}} the way it's filmed is incredibly hard to take seriously]]. Having her died thusly would have also been a great sendoff to Carrie Fisher.

to:

** Troper/cricri3007: Leia [[spoiler:surviving being in a room that got shot to piece, being in space, and]] using the Force [[spoiler:to fly to the ship so she can be rescued]] when 1)Nowhere is it stated that she got training in using it, 2)Everyone else [[spoiler:in the room]] died, 3) [[{{Narm}} the way it's filmed is incredibly hard to take seriously]]. Having her died thusly would have also been a great sendoff to Carrie Fisher.Fisher.
** Troper/Edgar81539: For me, it's the complete character assassination of Luke. Let's go through most of the stuff he went through in the Original Trilogy: he had his parents and mentor killed, most of his friends died in battle with the Empire, he discovered that the guy that killed his mentor and the second hand of the Emperor (with all the atrocities it entailed) was his father, faced certain death multiple times and was the pet project of Palpatine. And yet, even under his influence and having a known genocidist at his mercy, Luke didn't budge. He knew his father goodness was still alive in the inside and was almost tortured to death for that faith. Now, let's compared that with his actions here. [[spoiler: Leia and Han felt that Ben was being pulled by the Dark Side, and fearing another Darth Vader, sent him to train with his uncle. Luke senses that Ben is being influenced by Snoke. Someone would expect that Luke, knowing first hand how terrible being influenced by such powerful forces is, along with his blood ties to the boy, helps him. Instead, he choses to kill him on his sleep. He backs down on the last moment, but not before Ben realizes what he was trying to do and, scared, starts his life as Kylo Ren.]] Luke is reduced to nothing more than a plot device and regresses on his development so much you wouldn't even realize it's the same character. Luke deserved nothing but respect yet was treated like trash throughout the entire movie, culminating with his [[spoiler: lame duel with Kylo Ren and becoming one with the Force in the end.]] We get it, a story needs to be told about the new generation. But not at the expense of one of the most iconics characters in cinema history.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Troper/cricri3007: Leia [[spoiler:surviving being in a room that got shot to piece, being in space, and]] using the Force [[spoiler:to fly to the ship so she can be rescued]] when 1)Nowhere is it stated that she got training in using it, 2)Everyone else [[spoiler:in the room]] died, 3) [[narm the way it's filmed is incredibly hard to take seriously]]. Having her died thusly would have also been a great sendoff to Carrie Fisher.

to:

** Troper/cricri3007: Leia [[spoiler:surviving being in a room that got shot to piece, being in space, and]] using the Force [[spoiler:to fly to the ship so she can be rescued]] when 1)Nowhere is it stated that she got training in using it, 2)Everyone else [[spoiler:in the room]] died, 3) [[narm [[{{Narm}} the way it's filmed is incredibly hard to take seriously]]. Having her died thusly would have also been a great sendoff to Carrie Fisher.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Troper/cricri3007: Leia [[spoiler:surviving being in a room that got shot to piece, being in space, and}} using the Force [[spoiler:to fly to the ship so she can be rescued]] when 1)Nowhere is it stated that she got training in using it, 2)Everyone else [[spoiler:in the room]] died, 3) [[narm the way it's filmed is incredibly hard to take seriously]]. Having her died thusly would have also been a great sendoff to Carrie Fisher.

to:

** Troper/cricri3007: Leia [[spoiler:surviving being in a room that got shot to piece, being in space, and}} and]] using the Force [[spoiler:to fly to the ship so she can be rescued]] when 1)Nowhere is it stated that she got training in using it, 2)Everyone else [[spoiler:in the room]] died, 3) [[narm the way it's filmed is incredibly hard to take seriously]]. Having her died thusly would have also been a great sendoff to Carrie Fisher.
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None


----

to:

----** Troper/cricri3007: Leia [[spoiler:surviving being in a room that got shot to piece, being in space, and}} using the Force [[spoiler:to fly to the ship so she can be rescued]] when 1)Nowhere is it stated that she got training in using it, 2)Everyone else [[spoiler:in the room]] died, 3) [[narm the way it's filmed is incredibly hard to take seriously]]. Having her died thusly would have also been a great sendoff to Carrie Fisher.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Troper/DrZulu2010: For me it has to be what the fight between [[spoiler: Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker]]. Did I say fight? I meant [[spoiler: HumilliatiomConga where Ren flais his lightsaber to Luke while Luke gives him a ReasonYouSuckSpeech while being in ''astral projection.]] This was after [[spoiler: he killed Snoke cementing himself as the BigBad]] so you'd expect they would make [[spoiler: him]] into a credible villain but nope. At least [[spoiler: his grandfather Anakin]] became a dangerous badass when he became [[spoiler: Darth Vader]] near the end of Film/RevengeOfTheSith and he was my most hated character in all of Star Wars (even more than Jar Jar). [[spoiler: Kylo]] already has a bad time to become credible [[spoiler: after being on the recieving side of a CurbStompBattle by Rey, who never wielded a lightsaber by this point,]] so how did JJ Abrams expected that this loser can be seen as a credible threat with a sad track record. Pathetic villains work if they are secondary villains or henchmen or if the movie is comical or lighthearted in nature, but not in a god damned serious drama because that would make the heroes incompetent by proxy if they can't handle a bunch of losers.

to:

** Troper/DrZulu2010: For me it has to be what the fight between [[spoiler: Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker]]. Did I say fight? I meant [[spoiler: HumilliatiomConga HumilliationConga where Ren flais flails his lightsaber to Luke while Luke gives him a ReasonYouSuckSpeech while being in ''astral projection.projection''.]] This was after [[spoiler: he killed Snoke cementing himself as the BigBad]] so you'd expect they would make [[spoiler: him]] into a credible villain but nope. At least [[spoiler: his grandfather Anakin]] became a dangerous badass when he became [[spoiler: Darth Vader]] near the end of Film/RevengeOfTheSith and he was my most hated character in all of Star Wars (even more than Jar Jar). [[spoiler: Kylo]] already has a bad time to become credible [[spoiler: after being on the recieving side of a CurbStompBattle by Rey, who never wielded a lightsaber by this point,]] so how did JJ Abrams expected that this loser can be seen as a credible threat with a sad track record. Pathetic villains work if they are secondary villains or henchmen or if the movie is comical or lighthearted in nature, but not in a god damned serious drama because that would make the heroes incompetent by proxy if they can't handle a bunch of losers.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Troper/DrZulu2010: For me it has to be what the fight between [[spoiler: Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker]]. Did I say fight? I meant [[spoiler: HumilliatiomConga where Ren flais his lightsaber to Luke while Luke gives him a ReasonYouSuckSpeech while being in ''astral projection.]] This was after [[spoiler: he killed Snoke cementing himself as the BigBad]] so you'd expect they would make [[spoiler: him]] into a credible villain but nope. At least [[spoiler: his grandfather Anakin]] became a dangerous badass when he became [[spoiler: Darth Vader]] near the end of Film/RevengeOfTheSith and he was my most hated character in all of Star Wars (even more than Jar Jar). [[spoiler: Kylo]] already has a bad time to become credible [[spoiler: after being on the recieving side of a CurbStompBattle by Rey, who never wielded a lightsaber by this point,]] so how did JJ Abrams expected that this loser can be seen as a credible threat with a sad track record. Pathetic villains work if they are secondary villains or henchmen or if the movie is comical or lighthearted in nature, but not in a god damned serious drama because that would make the heroes incompetent by proxy if they can't handle a bunch of losers.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Tropers/{{Peridonyx}}: ''Film/TheLastJedi'' has multiple contenders [[note]]Rey's parents turning out to be [[spoiler:complete nobodies (meaning she can't be the silver lining in the now-completely-screwed Skywalker bloodline after all)]], Luke's [[spoiler:HeroicSacrifice (that's frankly TooSoon after ''The Force Awakens'' already killed Han off, thus making the Sequels feel like a ''Game of Thrones''-style KillEmAll against longtime fans' nostalgia)]], etc.[[/note]], actually. But my chosen moment is [[spoiler:Snoke's DiscOneFinalBoss death]]; after all that hype and mystique, those implications of [[spoiler:him]] being an interesting {{Foil}} to [[spoiler:Palpatine]], etc., [[spoiler:he]] turns out to be a complete waste just for the sake of a ShockingSwerve. Say what you will about the Prequels; at least they didn't make me feel this level of DarknessInducedAudienceApathy and/or EightDeadlyWords.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Bobg: I don't care about Victor Salva's past. He did his time and has every right to go back to making films, and I hate those who try to bring up a person's past and use it as an excuse to boycott their work when there is no connection between the two. I hate them even more when they have the gall to insult people for paying for and supporting those works. No I don't hate Jeepers Creepers 3 for the fact that it was made by Victor Salva. I hate it for the scene where the protagonists find out what the Creeper is and the film says "Fuck you" to the audience by not telling us. We waited 14 years for the film, with it being promised for all of those years that when it came out, it would reveal the Creeper's origin. This continued when the trailer was finally released. Than the film comes out and they break their promise and tease the audience. The way they promised to reveal what it is but only let the characters learn while hiding it from the audience, and than doing a sequel tease at the end just screams "We lied. Wait several more years and you MAY find out." Well fuck you. You deliberately tease us with that scene and refuse to tell us after you promised you would. Not only does this scene break a promise, but it also makes the entire movie pointless. Since the film takes place between 1 and 2, we know he's gonna be alive at the end, so the only point to this film would be to reveal his origin, which does not happen.

to:

* Bobg: I don't care about Victor Salva's past. He did his time and has every right to go back to making films, and I hate those who try to bring up a person's past and use it as an excuse to boycott their work when there is no connection between the two. I hate them even more when they have the gall to insult people for paying for and supporting those works. No I don't hate Jeepers Creepers 3 ''Film/JeepersCreepers 3'' for the fact that it was made by Victor Salva. I hate it for the scene where the protagonists find out what the Creeper is and the film says "Fuck you" to the audience by not telling us. We waited 14 years for the film, with it being promised for all of those years that when it came out, it would reveal the Creeper's origin. This continued when the trailer was finally released. Than the film comes out and they break their promise and tease the audience. The way they promised to reveal what it is but only let the characters learn while hiding it from the audience, and than doing a sequel tease at the end just screams "We lied. Wait several more years and you MAY find out." Well fuck you. You deliberately tease us with that scene and refuse to tell us after you promised you would. Not only does this scene break a promise, but it also makes the entire movie pointless. Since the film takes place between 1 and 2, we know he's gonna be alive at the end, so the only point to this film would be to reveal his origin, which does not happen.
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* Tropers/{{abby-anne}}: ''Film/{{Descendants}}'' is a cheesy, shitty, campy slap in the face to Disney's classic films in a weak attempt to cash in on the Franchise/MonsterHigh trend, but it's mostly harmless. That is, until the moment Mal slips Ben a LovePotion. Love potions are basically magical, G-Rated DateRape drugs. So Mal’s use of it should have either been treated as her crossing the MoralEventHorizon or left her feeling [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone horrified, guilty, and shameful.]] While she does feel a little bad, it’s mostly because she thinks her love is completely unrequited. The film becomes completely irredeemable once Ben reveals that he always knew about the love potion and is completely fine with it. [[YouHaveGotToBeKiddingMe Holy shit…]]this ''children's'' film that came out in 2015 just used RapeAsRedemption without a trace of irony. Nothing Mal does for the rest of the film makes up for this, meaning that [[DesignatedHero Mal is only a hero]] because of an insane amount of MoralLuck. With that plot point, this movie went from harmless, tween garbage to a disturbed, less-than-worthless, morally-bankrupt piece of shit.

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* Tropers/{{abby-anne}}: ''Film/{{Descendants}}'' is a cheesy, shitty, campy slap in the face to Disney's classic films in a weak attempt to cash in on the Franchise/MonsterHigh trend, but it's mostly harmless. That is, until the moment Mal slips Ben a LovePotion. Love potions are basically magical, G-Rated DateRape drugs. So Mal’s use of it should have either been treated as her crossing the MoralEventHorizon or left her feeling [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone horrified, guilty, and shameful.]] While she does feel a little bad, it’s mostly because she thinks her love is completely unrequited. The film becomes completely irredeemable once Ben reveals that he always knew about the love potion and is completely fine with it. [[YouHaveGotToBeKiddingMe Holy shit…]]this ''children's'' film that came out in 2015 just used RapeAsRedemption RapePortrayedAsRedemption without a trace of irony. Nothing Mal does for the rest of the film makes up for this, meaning that [[DesignatedHero Mal is only a hero]] because of an insane amount of MoralLuck. With that plot point, this movie went from harmless, tween garbage to a disturbed, less-than-worthless, morally-bankrupt piece of shit.
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** Tropers/DrZulu2010: For me, it has to be a scene in the theatrical version of ''The Return Of The King'' where, after surrounding Saruman, they basically said let's make sure Saruman stays in his tower and never bothers anyone again. I already knew that one of my favourite moments in the book (The Scouring of the Shire) was excluded [[EndingFatigue for good reasons]] so basically that means that Saruman, the second most important villain after Sauron, never gets his comeuppence. The fact that his death scene was removed for time constrains is more infuriating since 1. this happens early in the movie and 2. this is a major villain. I'm pretty sure we can add a little 15 minutes (or heck, removing some sequence who are filler) so we can see Saruman getting backstabbed by Grima and falling from his tower in an epic DisneyVillainDeath. This is why I need to find the extended cut of the movie.
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* Bobg: I don't care about Victor Salva's past. He did his time and has every right to go back to making films, and I hate those who try to bring up a person's past and use it as an excuse to boycott their work when there is no connection between the two. I hate them even more when they have the gall to insult people for paying for and supporting those works. No I don't hate Jeepers Creepers 3 for the fact that it was made by Victor Salva. I hate it for the scene where the protagonists find out what the Creeper is and the film says "Fuck you" to the audience by not telling us. We waited 14 years for the film, with it being promised for all of those years that when it came out, it would reveal the Creeper's origin. This continued when the trailer was finally released. Than the film comes out and they break their promise and tease the audience. The way they promised to reveal what it is but only let the characters learn while hiding it from the audience, and than doing a sequel tease at the end just screams "We lied. Wait several more years and you MAY find out." Well fuck you. You deliberately tease us with that scene and refuse to tell us after you promised you would. Not only does this scene break a promise, but it also makes the entire movie pointless. Since the film takes place between 1 and 2, we know he's gonna be alive at the end, so the only point to this film would be to reveal his origin, which does not happen.
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** Troper/DrZulu2010: Agreed. While the ending was unique for its time,[[note]]subverting the usual cliche of 50s movies of the bad boy becoming a nice person to be with the woman he loved[[/note]] the sad truth is that time was not kind to this manner of thinking in two ways. First, this could be see as sexist in hindsight (and I don't use this word lightly considering [[VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}} my]] [[VideoGame/SenranKagura tastes]] [[VideoGame/DeadOrAlive in]] [[VideoGame/FateGrandOrder video]] [[VideoGame/HyperdimensionNeptunia games]]) with Sandy deciding that the only way to be with Danny was to look and act like a prostitute. Two, the message to not follow the crowd and be yourself is broken since Sandy gave up her identity, personality and even her looks to be with a group of people. But that's okay! They are such likable rebels! This ending is why I couldn't enjoy ''Grease'' even though the songs are catchy; it gave me such a bad impression even when I first saw it that I'm not surprised the sequel, which is just the first movie with the gender roles reversed, killed any chances for the movies to become a multi-media franchise.
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* {{Tropers/Pgj1997}}: If I'm allowed to put TV Movies on here, then the Nickelodeon movie "Oh Brother" is definitely one for me. All it is is a blown up travel guide for New York City, circa 1995. The meat of this special is nothing but {{filler}}, and doesn't further the story one bit, if it can even be considered a story at all. Nickelodeon is based in New York City by the way, so it's not like there was any budget for this. People nowadays like to say that Nickelodeon throws shit on the screen and will make bank regardless, but trust me, this cheap trait goes WAY back.

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* {{Tropers/Pgj1997}}: If I'm allowed to put TV Movies on here, then the Nickelodeon movie "Oh Brother" ''Oh Brother'' is definitely one for me. All it is is a blown up travel guide for New York City, circa 1995. The meat of this special is nothing but {{filler}}, and doesn't further the story one bit, if it can even be considered a story at all. Nickelodeon is based in New York City by the way, so it's not like there was any budget for this. People nowadays like to say that Nickelodeon throws shit on the screen and will make bank regardless, but trust me, this cheap trait goes WAY back.



* Tropers/{{ManEFaces}}: ''Film/BigFish'' is quite possibly the worst goddamn film Tim Burton has ever directed, and I'm taking ''Film/PlanetOfTheApes2001'' and ''Film/DarkShadows'' into account in making that assessment. We're introduced to Edward Bloom, an old man who is slowly dying, and so his son Will returns to learn the true story about his father’s life because he has felt let down by a lifetime of tall tales and long absences. Instead, we must suffer through Edward’s egomaniacal rants that are assumedly supposed to be cute and charming. He bullies his listeners (and us) into accepting his demented worldview, when the only proper label for this man is that of a congenital liar. Edward’s journey through life, as he tells it, is strikingly similar to Forrest Gump’s; full of wartime heroics, small town eccentrics, and blind love for a vapid woman. Edward’s love story is arguably the most repulsive of the lot, as he falls in love at first sight, announces that will marry this woman even before speaking one word to her, and keeps her in his mind for three years until he can find her again. After he tracks her down at college, he shows up at her door and proposes marriage (again, he has never said one word to the woman). The woman, Sandra, tells him that she is already engaged, which prompts the self-absorbed ass-fucker to increase his obsessive behavior. He buys her thousands of flowers, hires a sky writer, and shouts at her window that he will indeed marry her. Some of the less sophisticated viewers might find this stalker-like behavior romantic, but what I see is a man so self-obsessed that he will not accept rejection. Everyone and everything must be caught, stripped, and placed in his ever-expanding trophy case. Another example of Edward’s ego occurs when Will’s wife is discussing her recently published photos at the dinner table. Rather than ask the young woman to elaborate, Edward uses this as a springboard to bore the family further with another tale that they have heard hundreds of times. Edward simply cannot listen to someone else talk for more than five seconds without having to add his own bullshit, and simply tunes out if other egos intrude on his party. It is conceivable to spend a lifetime with this man without getting to know the real person, or having him know the real you. I have no doubt that many people watching it found a familiar point of reference, as we all know a relative who believes the dinner doesn’t truly begin until he or she enters the goddamn room. Common sense dictates that Edward is just one of those people who likes to add color to life and is merely a harmless clown, but by the end we are meant to take his stories seriously at least partially. My sympathy was with poor Will, who never knew his father because the man was too busy constructing an image to distract from the real prick beneath the lies. And my disgust also extended to Edward’s wife Sandra, as her only lines consist of enabling Edward to be such a bastard. Apparently it doesn’t bother her that Edward hasn’t uttered one word that wasn’t in service of cock-eyed fantasy. If Edward Bloom reminds you of that slightly kooky uncle you haven’t seen in years, then maybe you should give it a shot. But I’m not about to enjoy the sort of behavior from a relative that would cause me to leave the room, simply because it takes place in a movie. Ironically, this film made me think of one of Tim Burton's true masterpieces, ''Film/EdWood'', because the titular character of that film is so much like Edward Bloom. They are both avatars for Burton himself, who is quite content to indulge his own fantasies, yet seems to have no regard for his audience.

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* Tropers/{{ManEFaces}}: ''Film/BigFish'' is quite possibly the worst goddamn film Tim Burton Creator/TimBurton has ever directed, and I'm taking ''Film/PlanetOfTheApes2001'' and ''Film/DarkShadows'' into account in making that assessment. We're introduced to Edward Bloom, an old man who is slowly dying, and so his son Will returns to learn the true story about his father’s life because he has felt let down by a lifetime of tall tales and long absences. Instead, we must suffer through Edward’s egomaniacal rants that are assumedly supposed to be cute and charming. He bullies his listeners (and us) into accepting his demented worldview, when the only proper label for this man is that of a congenital liar. Edward’s journey through life, as he tells it, is strikingly similar to Forrest Gump’s; full of wartime heroics, small town eccentrics, and blind love for a vapid woman. Edward’s love story is arguably the most repulsive of the lot, as he falls in love at first sight, announces that will marry this woman even before speaking one word to her, and keeps her in his mind for three years until he can find her again. After he tracks her down at college, he shows up at her door and proposes marriage (again, he has never said one word to the woman). The woman, Sandra, tells him that she is already engaged, which prompts the self-absorbed ass-fucker to increase his obsessive behavior. He buys her thousands of flowers, hires a sky writer, and shouts at her window that he will indeed marry her. Some of the less sophisticated viewers might find this stalker-like behavior romantic, but what I see is a man so self-obsessed that he will not accept rejection. Everyone and everything must be caught, stripped, and placed in his ever-expanding trophy case. Another example of Edward’s ego occurs when Will’s wife is discussing her recently published photos at the dinner table. Rather than ask the young woman to elaborate, Edward uses this as a springboard to bore the family further with another tale that they have heard hundreds of times. Edward simply cannot listen to someone else talk for more than five seconds without having to add his own bullshit, and simply tunes out if other egos intrude on his party. It is conceivable to spend a lifetime with this man without getting to know the real person, or having him know the real you. I have no doubt that many people watching it found a familiar point of reference, as we all know a relative who believes the dinner doesn’t truly begin until he or she enters the goddamn room. Common sense dictates that Edward is just one of those people who likes to add color to life and is merely a harmless clown, but by the end we are meant to take his stories seriously at least partially. My sympathy was with poor Will, who never knew his father because the man was too busy constructing an image to distract from the real prick beneath the lies. And my disgust also extended to Edward’s wife Sandra, as her only lines consist of enabling Edward to be such a bastard. Apparently it doesn’t bother her that Edward hasn’t uttered one word that wasn’t in service of cock-eyed fantasy. If Edward Bloom reminds you of that slightly kooky uncle you haven’t seen in years, then maybe you should give it a shot. But I’m not about to enjoy the sort of behavior from a relative that would cause me to leave the room, simply because it takes place in a movie. Ironically, this film made me think of one of Tim Burton's true masterpieces, ''Film/EdWood'', because the titular character of that film is so much like Edward Bloom. They are both avatars for Burton himself, who is quite content to indulge his own fantasies, yet seems to have no regard for his audience.
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* Lemia: ''Film/EverythingEverything'' was one of the most frustrating film-watching experiences I've ever had because it has so many praiseworthy things about it -- a visibly biracial female lead, a teen romance that feels genuinely sweet and organic with real chemistry between the characters, and the film taking care to show how the lead isn't defined solely by her immunodeficiency disorder and can lead a meaningful life even with it -- and yet all of these things are completely overshadowed by one of the most appallingly tone-deaf plot twists I've ever seen: the lead's immunodeficiency disorder was all made up by her mother who just couldn't bear to lose her to the wide, scary world! And the lead very quickly forgives her for this, in spite of her mother basically having confined her indoors and rendered her unable to lead a normal life for EIGHTEEN FREAKING YEARS with this gigantic lie! Goddammit movie, why couldn't you have been content with just being a straightforward teen romance instead of pulling this bullshit twist that creates massive UnfortunateImplications about how the lead's disability was never "real" and can just be conveniently explained away to give her a 100% happy ending?!

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