History DemonicSpiders / TabletopGames

26th Jul '17 2:15:49 PM armogohma
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** In the ''Commander'' variant, several commanders have a reputation of "kill on sight," sometimes even extending to killing the player who controls them:
*** [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=430399 Kaalia of the Vast]] will swarm the battlefield with free angels, demons, and dragons.
*** [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=338445 The Mimeoplasm]] is usually big enough to kill a player regardless of their life total, and often comes with some annoying, undercosted abilities, to boot.
*** Some commanders are known for comboing with a single other card to instantly win the game, like [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=249896 Mikaeus]], [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=236469 Riku]], and [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=244667 Teferi]].
*** And that's just commonly played casual decks. Tier 1 decks often rely less on their commanders, but feature [[BossInMookClothing regular creatures]] like [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=397556 Hermit Druid]], which, through a [[RubeGoldbergHatesYourGuts convoluted series of actions]], can win by turn 3.
26th Jul '17 1:56:13 PM armogohma
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** Ornithopter. Useless on its own, but with an Unholy Strength or Rancor, we're talking about two damage ''every turn''. Played on the first turn.
** Squee, Goblin Nabob. Not to attack, mind. Squee works differently. Squee can be discarded or played and sacrificed. Then he returns to your hand. And he's a goblin, so all those "Sacrifice a goblin..." cards qualify.

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** Ornithopter. [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=425813 Ornithopter]]. Useless on its own, but with an [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=394063 Unholy Strength ]] or Rancor, [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423501 Rancor]], we're talking about two damage ''every turn''. Played on the first turn. Or worse,[[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383232 Ensoul Artifact]], for a 5/5 attacking as early as turn two.
** [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370461 Squee, Goblin Nabob.Nabob]]. Not to attack, mind. Squee works differently. Squee can be discarded or played and sacrificed. Then he returns to your hand. And he's a goblin, so all those "Sacrifice a goblin..." cards qualify.



** Rootwater Thief: Flying creatures can only be blocked by other flying creatures, and if he connects, he can remove ''any'' card from a player's deck, crippling many deckbuilds.
** Voice of All. It's a small creature with flying, but when it comes into play, it gains protection from one color. Not just a specific color, however, but ''any color.'' Therefore, Voice of All could simply continue smashing in the face of any monocolored deck with impunity, or worse, create a near impenetrable defense.
** Disciple of the Vault is a dirt-cheap common creature that makes the opponent lose life whenever its controller loses an artifact. Since the life loss was unpreventable, there were a ton of cheap artifacts, the creature itself was hard to kill, and its power stacked with multiple Disciples, Disciple of the Vault was one of the most aggravating creatures in the infamous Affinity decks due to how difficult it was to stop.
** Bloodbraid Elf is a cheap creature with 3 power, haste, and the "Cascade" ability, which gives whoever plays it another cheap spell for ''free''. So it hits hard the turn it hits play, and will probably hit hard ''again'' on that same turn. The deck archetype it was most often used in-- [[LightningBruiser Jund]]-- used the Elf to dig up a [[http://www.magiccards.info/query?q=!Sprouting%20Thrinax Sprouting Thrinax]], [[http://www.magiccards.info/query?q=!Blightning Blightning]], or [[http://www.magiccards.info/query?q=Maelstrom+Pulse&v=card&s=cname Maelstrom Pulse]] for free, effectively netting you two creatures, a shot to your opponent's dome and two cards out of his/her hand, or a quick KillEmAll switch AND three damage for the price of one. In any other deck, that's useful. In Jund, it's deadly. This got so bad that Bloodbraid Elf was banned in Modern to prevent Jund decks from dominating the format.

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** [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=22889 Rootwater Thief: Thief]]: Flying creatures can only be blocked by other flying creatures, and if he connects, he can remove ''any'' card from a player's deck, crippling many deckbuilds.
** [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=430247 Voice of All.All]]. It's a small creature with flying, but when it comes into play, it gains protection from one color. Not just a specific color, however, but ''any color.'' Therefore, Voice of All could simply continue smashing in the face of any monocolored deck with impunity, or worse, create a near impenetrable defense.
** [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=49090 Disciple of the Vault Vault]] is a dirt-cheap common creature that makes the opponent lose life whenever its controller loses an artifact. Since the life loss was unpreventable, there were a ton of cheap artifacts, the creature itself was hard to kill, and its power stacked with multiple Disciples, Disciple of the Vault was one of the most aggravating creatures in the infamous Affinity decks due to how difficult it was to stop.
** [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=423509 Bloodbraid Elf Elf]] is a cheap creature with 3 power, haste, and the "Cascade" ability, which gives whoever plays it another cheap spell for ''free''. So it hits hard the turn it hits play, and will probably hit hard ''again'' on that same turn. The deck archetype it was most often used in-- [[LightningBruiser Jund]]-- used the Elf to dig up a [[http://www.magiccards.info/query?q=!Sprouting%20Thrinax Sprouting Thrinax]], [[http://www.magiccards.info/query?q=!Blightning Blightning]], or [[http://www.magiccards.info/query?q=Maelstrom+Pulse&v=card&s=cname Maelstrom Pulse]] for free, effectively netting you two creatures, a shot to your opponent's dome and two cards out of his/her hand, or a quick KillEmAll switch AND three damage for the price of one. In any other deck, that's useful. In Jund, it's deadly. This got so bad that Bloodbraid Elf was banned in Modern to prevent Jund decks from dominating the format.



** In a similar vein to both, there's also Inkmoth Nexus. You can play it on the first turn and by the second turn, it can attack (making it one turn faster than Stinger). It's stats are identical to Stinger when it's a creature. New Phyrexian managed to up this threat by introducing Mutagenic Growth, essentially letting you whack at the opponent for up to ''9 poison counters on the second turn''. Bear in mind that you only need 10 to kill someone. This thing is also uncounterable, as it is a land coming into play. This means you have to use a kill spell on it while it's a creature or one of the expensive (mana-wise) land destruction cards, making it even harder to get rid of.

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** In a similar vein to both, there's also [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=213731 Inkmoth Nexus.Nexus]]. You can play it on the first turn and by the second turn, it can attack (making it one turn faster than Stinger). It's stats are identical to Stinger when it's a creature. New Phyrexian managed to up this threat by introducing [[http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=397717 Mutagenic Growth, Growth]], essentially letting you whack at the opponent for up to ''9 poison counters on the second turn''. Bear in mind that you only need 10 to kill someone. This thing is also uncounterable, as it is a land coming into play. This means you have to use a kill spell on it while it's a creature or one of the expensive (mana-wise) land destruction cards, making it even harder to get rid of.
30th Jun '17 11:35:07 AM WanderingBrowser
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*** The Bebilith and Retriever are ''actual'' Demonic Spiders, though the level 18 Solo Bebilith doesn't really qualify for the trope. The level 27 Retriever fits the quite nicely for Epic-tier [=PCs=], and even comes in an upgraded boss-fight package in the form of the 30 Solo Retriever Holocaust.

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*** The Bebilith and Retriever are ''actual'' Demonic Spiders, though the level 18 Solo Bebilith doesn't really qualify for the trope. The level 27 Retriever fits the quite nicely for Epic-tier [=PCs=], and even comes in an upgraded boss-fight package in the form of the 30 Solo Retriever Holocaust.[[note]]For those unfamiliar with 4e terminology, player characters can reach up to level 30 in core gameplay, and "Solo" is a descriptor applied to creatures that are considered a party-challenging encounter in their own right. A Retriever Holocaust is capable of fighting, and possibly ''beating'', a 5-man party of maxed-level player characters '''singlehandedly''.[[/note]]
11th Feb '17 3:35:19 PM Xtifr
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* In the 1978 Avalon Hill board game [[http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/22 Magic Realm]] the giant bats are among the most dangerous of all monsters. They are too fast to run away from or hit reliably, kill unarmored characters instantly, and wound to death those with heavy armor.

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* In the 1978 Avalon Hill Creator/AvalonHill board game [[http://www.''[[http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/22 Magic Realm]] Realm]]'' the giant bats are among the most dangerous of all monsters. They are too fast to run away from or hit reliably, kill unarmored characters instantly, and wound to death those with heavy armor.
28th Nov '16 11:10:25 PM chc232323
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** Swarms can be this to low-level players, since they're immune to basically any type of damage that isn't an AreaOfEffect spell. Otherwise they're typically GoddamnedBats.

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** Swarms can be this to low-level players, since they're some are immune to basically any type of damage that isn't an AreaOfEffect spell. Otherwise they're typically GoddamnedBats.


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*** The swarm that can most quickly TotalPartyKill an appropriate level party? CR 3 Wasp Swarms, meant to challenge neophyte adventurers. They administer poison, fly faster than you can run, and are immune to weapon damage. Couple this with more HP than a normal 3rd level party can do in area of effect damage, a chance that a character stung by the wasps does nothing but feel sickened and take damage each round, and the ability to chase down any fleeing characters, and the wasps will likely kill any 3rd level party which doesn't have a fair amount of luck coupled with an unusual (and suboptimal for most situations) focus on area of effect attacks.
23rd Sep '16 2:01:33 PM FordPrefect
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** Spider Swarms and Leech Swarms in 3.5 are terrifying for low-end characters: They automatically hit any enemies they're touching for non-trivial damage, are resistant or immune to most normal weapon damage, stack poison on top of that and make it so that a character [[http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#nauseated can't actually run away]] because he's ''covered with spiders that are biting him to death''. Warlocks get the option call such swarms at will, right at the first level if they want.

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** Spider Swarms and Leech Swarms in 3.5 are terrifying for low-end characters: They automatically hit any enemies they're touching for non-trivial damage, are resistant or immune to most normal weapon damage, stack poison on top of that and make it so that a character [[http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#nauseated can't actually run away]] because he's ''covered with spiders that are biting him to death''. Warlocks get the option to call such swarms at will, right at the first level if they want.
27th Mar '16 4:12:30 PM TheNerfGuy
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** Monstrous Crabs. The challenge rating implies that a 3rd level party can reasonably defeat one. Despite this, they are large and [[InstantDeathRadius have long reach accordingly]] that dissuades melee combat, [[StoneWall lots of HP]], [[LightningBruiser move fast, hit hard, and are hard to damage]], and have a ridiculously high grapple modifier. Your average 3rd level party seldom has anything that can debuff one since its immunities let it NoSell most of what the party wizard/cleric/druid can do. A typical encounter with one usually has it charging the nearest character for both claw and constrict damage, often one-shotting them. Next round, it tosses the downed character aside and repeats the first round, and subsequent rounds have it doing the exact same thing until the survivors flee or hide or it [[TotalPartyKill kills them all]]. There is a reason these things are not popular to fight against.

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** [[GiantEnemyCrab Monstrous Crabs.Crabs]]. The challenge rating implies that a 3rd level party can reasonably defeat one. Despite this, they are large and [[InstantDeathRadius have long reach accordingly]] that dissuades melee combat, [[StoneWall lots of HP]], [[LightningBruiser move fast, hit hard, and are hard to damage]], and have a ridiculously high grapple modifier. Your average 3rd level party seldom has anything that can debuff one since its immunities let it NoSell most of what the party wizard/cleric/druid can do. A typical encounter with one usually has it charging the nearest character for both claw and constrict damage, often one-shotting them. Next round, it tosses the downed character aside and repeats the first round, and subsequent rounds have it doing the exact same thing until the survivors flee or hide or it [[TotalPartyKill kills them all]]. There is a reason these things are not popular to fight against.
27th Mar '16 4:11:41 PM TheNerfGuy
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** See the quotes page for InstantDeathRadius for a monstrous crab that ''will'' murder any party that tries to take it on at its recommended level.

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** See the quotes page for InstantDeathRadius for a monstrous crab Monstrous Crabs. The challenge rating implies that ''will'' murder any a 3rd level party can reasonably defeat one. Despite this, they are large and [[InstantDeathRadius have long reach accordingly]] that tries dissuades melee combat, [[StoneWall lots of HP]], [[LightningBruiser move fast, hit hard, and are hard to take it on at damage]], and have a ridiculously high grapple modifier. Your average 3rd level party seldom has anything that can debuff one since its recommended level.immunities let it NoSell most of what the party wizard/cleric/druid can do. A typical encounter with one usually has it charging the nearest character for both claw and constrict damage, often one-shotting them. Next round, it tosses the downed character aside and repeats the first round, and subsequent rounds have it doing the exact same thing until the survivors flee or hide or it [[TotalPartyKill kills them all]]. There is a reason these things are not popular to fight against.
8th Feb '16 5:19:52 PM zaphod77
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** In early editions (before 3.0), many level-draining Undead with [[LevelDrain Energy Drain]] could simply take levels away. It was much crueler than Negative Levels, a temporary debuff, in the newer editions. In early editions, Energy Drain meant you could start an encounter as a 10th level character, get hit once by a vampire's attack, and now you are an 8th level fighter. Permanently. The vampire is still around, and now you are less likely to defeat it quickly and thus more likely to be hit yet again. Three unlucky rolls later, your character might be 2nd level. Go back to the rulebook and take a look at how many HP and XP were just deleted. The only way to recover was to survive the encounter and then get back to adventuring so you can re-earn all those XP and levels. Negative Levels were added because Energy Drain was so disheartening, a player likely would rather simply have a beloved character killed.

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** In early editions (before 3.0), many level-draining Undead with [[LevelDrain Energy Drain]] could simply take levels away. It was much crueler than Negative Levels, either a temporary debuff, debuff which could become permanent if not cured, or saved against, or a permanent debuff that can be cured, in the newer editions. In early editions, Energy Drain meant you could start an encounter as a 10th level character, get hit once by a vampire's attack, and now you are an 8th level fighter. Permanently. The vampire is still around, and now you are less likely to defeat it quickly and thus more likely to be hit yet again. Three unlucky rolls later, your character might be 2nd level. Go back to the rulebook and take a look at how many HP and XP were just deleted. The only way to recover was to survive the encounter and then get back to adventuring so you can re-earn all those XP and levels. Negative Levels were added because Energy Drain was so disheartening, a player likely would rather simply have a beloved character killed.killed, which could almost always be undone with a loss of one level at most.
25th Jan '16 1:30:53 PM chc232323
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** In early editions (before 3.0), many level-draining Undead with [[LevelDrain Energy Drain]] could simply take levels away. It was much crueler than Negative Levels, a temporary debuff, in the newer editions. In early editions, Energy Drain meant you could start an encounter as a 10th level character, get hit once by a vampire's attack, and now you are an 8th level fighter. Permanently. The vampire is still around, and now you are less likely to defeat it quickly and thus more likely to be hit yet again. Three unlucky rolls later, your character might be 2nd level. Go back to the rulebook and take a look at how many HP and XP were just deleted. The only way to recover was to survive the encounter and then get back to adventuring so you can re-earn all those XP and levels. Negative Levels were added because Energy Drain was so disheartening, a player likely would rather simply have a beloved character killed.
*** In AD&D, ghosts are able to make even the most potent characters cry. Their first attack is a possession effect. If the ghost takes control of you, there is no reason for it not to use your body to do as much harm as it can, then when at risk of expulsion, to impale itself on your weapon. You'd be dead, and the ghost would be fine. If you survived that, the sight of a ghost might make you panic and age 10 years on sight. Every hit from a ghost ages you an average of 25 years, quickly leaving you an ancient husk. Magic does not harm them unless you are also ethereal, and they are immune to non-magical, non-silver weapons.
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