History DeconstructedTrope / ASongOfIceAndFire

24th Mar '17 1:24:44 PM Tianzi
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** Cersei's children having the Lannister looks instead of Baratheon's serves as a "proof" that their father is Jaime Lannister and not Cersei's husband King Robert Baratheon. [[{{Irony}} The funny thing is]] that since Jaime is Cersei's ''twin brother'', the Lannister looks could have been passed down completely legitimately from Cersei herself and not because "the seed is strong" - making it a case of the accusers being RightForTheWrongReasons.
23rd Mar '17 9:46:06 AM Euodiachloris
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** Because Jeffrey was this trope on legs, it's practically impossible for the Lannisters (who aren't Cersei) and most at Court to [[spoiler: work out who actually killed him.]] Although the story of [[spoiler: Tyrion-and-Sansa is publicly accepted, few buy Sansa's wholehearted involvement]]. But, due to the sheer number of candidate suspects, nobody can find alternatives closer to the truth.
16th Mar '17 6:37:45 AM Euodiachloris
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** The Freys were already this before the war, being mocked and looked down upon for being opportunistic weasels. So, if you're already despised, why ''not'' go for broke by waving it about? What can you lose? Well... after [[spoiler:their betrayal of a large number of allies during the Red Wedding]], they are hated by nearly everyone in the Riverlands and the North. Everyone in those regions will validly take the opportunity to kill every Frey they encounter if it presents itself, and people will not think twice when one of them dies. Heck, because many Northern and Riverlands Houses lost men and relatives to them, most break out into very thinly disguised schadenfreude upon hearing of the latest tragedy to befall the Freys -- in front of them. All of this means that, just to govern what they hold, actual Freys have to go out to risk bodily harm while threatening it upon their vassals. Also, even though the Riverlords have officially submitted to the Iron Throne, Jaime knows he can't rely on the people in reality and has to take hostages.

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** The Freys were already this before the war, being mocked and looked down upon for being opportunistic weasels. weasels and glorified extortionists. So, if you're already despised, why ''not'' go for broke by going large and waving it about? What can you lose? Well... after [[spoiler:their betrayal of a large huge number of neighbours and allies during the Red Wedding]], they are hated by nearly everyone in the Riverlands and the North. Everyone Quite a lot in those regions will validly gladly take the opportunity to kill every Frey they encounter if it presents itself, and other people will not think twice when one of them the House dies. Heck, because many Northern and Riverlands Houses lost men and relatives to them, most break out into very thinly disguised schadenfreude upon hearing of the latest tragedy to befall the Freys -- in front of them. All of this means that, just to govern what they hold, actual Freys have to go out to risk bodily harm while threatening it upon their vassals. This is a family which leans more towards the behind-the-desk CorruptBureaucrat end of the slime pool rather than the actively knee-capping enforcer one, remember: they're a bit out of their comfort zone as a group. Also, even though the Riverlords have officially submitted to the Iron Throne, Jaime knows he can't rely on the people in reality to stay quiet, let alone loyal, and has ''has'' to take hostages.hostages (often ones the Freys were holding as collateral) to remind the squabbling Freys and Riverlanders alike who is in charge of them all.
16th Mar '17 6:06:19 AM Euodiachloris
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** Roose Bolton ponders the pitfalls of having such a negative public image that can plague a whole House if even only ''one'' member pushes the envelope. If Ramsay continues being gratuitously StupidEvil right in front of people's faces, the whole House, not to mention the population of the Dreadfort, could be exterminated by the combined effort of the unhappy Northern Houses in less time than it took them both [[spoiler: to work their way into holding Winterfell's lands and titles in the first place.]] And, that whole speculation was made before [[spoiler: the revelations of House Bolton being actively involved in the Red Wedding]] had even started to leak through various sources. [[spoiler: There is a possible plus-side: if that one member of the House is loathed enough, the rest ''might'' get off by throwing him to the wolves and blaming most of the collective monstrosities on him, then citing whatever can be proved of as their own doing as, "We were just trying to protect our own blood -- even if he was an unpredictable, AxeCrazy idiot. Will his head and reparations do?" Maybe.]]
** The Freys were already this before the war, mocked and looked down upon for being opportunistic weasels. Now, after [[spoiler:their betrayal in the Red Wedding]], they are hated by nearly everyone in the Riverlands and the North. Everyone in those regions will take the opportunity to kill every Frey they encounter if it presents itself, and people will not think twice when one of them dies. Heck, because many Northern and Riverlands Houses lost men and relatives to them, most break out into very thinly disguised schadenfreude upon hearing of the latest tragedy to befall the Freys -- in front of them. Also, even though the Riverlords have officially submitted to the Iron Throne, Jaime knows he can't rely on the people in reality and has to take hostages.

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** Roose Bolton ponders all the pitfalls of having such a negative public image that can plague a whole House if even only ''one'' member pushes the envelope.envelope a little too far. If Ramsay continues being gratuitously StupidEvil right in front of people's faces, the whole House, not to mention the population of the Dreadfort, could be exterminated by the combined effort of the unhappy Northern Houses in less time than it took them both [[spoiler: to work their way into holding Winterfell's lands and titles in the first place.]] And, that whole speculation was made before [[spoiler: the revelations of House Bolton being actively involved in the Red Wedding]] had even started to leak through various sources. [[spoiler: There is a possible plus-side: if that one member of the House is loathed enough, the rest ''might'' get off by throwing him to the wolves and blaming most of the collective monstrosities on him, then citing whatever can be proved of as their own doing as, "We were just trying to protect our own blood -- even if he was an unpredictable, AxeCrazy idiot. Will his head and reparations do?" Maybe.]]
** The Freys were already this before the war, being mocked and looked down upon for being opportunistic weasels. Now, weasels. So, if you're already despised, why ''not'' go for broke by waving it about? What can you lose? Well... after [[spoiler:their betrayal in of a large number of allies during the Red Wedding]], they are hated by nearly everyone in the Riverlands and the North. Everyone in those regions will validly take the opportunity to kill every Frey they encounter if it presents itself, and people will not think twice when one of them dies. Heck, because many Northern and Riverlands Houses lost men and relatives to them, most break out into very thinly disguised schadenfreude upon hearing of the latest tragedy to befall the Freys -- in front of them. All of this means that, just to govern what they hold, actual Freys have to go out to risk bodily harm while threatening it upon their vassals. Also, even though the Riverlords have officially submitted to the Iron Throne, Jaime knows he can't rely on the people in reality and has to take hostages.
13th Mar '17 3:52:43 PM wedekit
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*** Additionally, a girl that Daenerys saves, Eroeh, is ultimately gang raped ''and'' has her throat slit. It's arguable that she would have at least managed to keep her life if Daenerys hadn't intervened.

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*** Additionally, a girl that Daenerys saves, Eroeh, is ultimately gang raped ''and'' has her throat slit. It's arguable that she would have at least managed to keep her life if Daenerys hadn't intervened. Safety as protection from rape is deconstructed into a question of how one would define "safe"... raped or raped ''and'' dead.
13th Mar '17 3:48:31 PM wedekit
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Added DiffLines:

*** Additionally, a girl that Daenerys saves, Eroeh, is ultimately gang raped ''and'' has her throat slit. It's arguable that she would have at least managed to keep her life if Daenerys hadn't intervened.
13th Mar '17 2:21:27 PM wedekit
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** Viserys I appointed his daughter Rhaenyra as heir over her younger brother Aegon despite the fact that Westerosi custom dictates only males can inherit. The resulting confusion regarding who was truly heir polarized the kingdom and resulted in a bloody SuccessionCrisis.

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** Viserys I appointed his daughter Rhaenyra as heir over her much younger brother half-brother Aegon despite the fact that Westerosi custom dictates only males can inherit. he himself became king due to a council decision that, in sum, stated male Targaryen lines have a stronger claim than female lines. Viserys I even had all the lords of the realm come forth and swear oaths to uphold Rhaenyra as his heir. The resulting confusion regarding who was truly heir polarized the kingdom and resulted in a bloody SuccessionCrisis.SuccessionCrisis known as The Dance of Dragons.



** Aegon I made Aenys (elder son from the younger wife) his heir over Maegor (younger son from the older wife). Maegor would retaliate later by violently usurping the crown from Aenys' sons.

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** Aegon I made Aenys (elder son from the younger wife) wife, Rhaenys) his heir over Maegor (younger son from the older wife).wife, Visenya). Maegor would retaliate later by violently usurping the crown from Aenys' sons. Notable in that Aegon I was also believed to favor Rhaenys over Visenya, reported to have spent ten nights with Rhaenys for every one he spent with Visenya.
13th Mar '17 1:13:14 PM wedekit
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** Ned's older brother, Brandon, unwisely threatened Mad King Aerys and got himself and his father killed. Ned also blames the "wolf blood" for the death of his sister Lyanna but the reason is still unknown.

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** Ned's older brother, Brandon, unwisely threatened Mad King Aerys Aerys' heir, Rhaegar, and got himself and his father killed. Ned also blames the "wolf blood" for the death of his sister Lyanna but the reason is still unknown.
9th Mar '17 6:59:21 PM qazwsx
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* AChildShallLeadThem: The general absence of sentimentality towards childhood, combined with children having to grow up faster socially than they can physically or mentally, means that they have to try restraining whatever childish impulses and inevitable youthful, inexperienced mistakes they're still likely to make. Which, given these children's circumstances, will cost them ''much'' more because of the power of the positions that are thrust upon them.
** After the death of his father, 6-year old Robert Arryn inherits the title of Lord of the Vale but he is too physically and mentally unwell to rule the Eyrie. His step-father and bannermen are all vying for the title of Lord Protector so they can rule in his name.
** Joffrey Baratheon is a spoiled {{sadist}} who's more interested in indulging his destructive impulses than in any actual ruling. He becomes TheCaligula even before he leaves his teens and is regarded as a tyrant in the making in his childhood. His stupid childish whim of ordering Ned Stark's execution plunges the realm into civil war [[spoiler:and eventually his allies end up killing him at his own wedding at the age of 13]].
** Robb Stark is thrust into a leadership role at age 15, forced to become AFatherToHisMen at an early age and live up to his father's legacy, ably supported by the advice of his mother and experienced commanders like the Blackfish. However, his impulsive decision to chivalrously honor Jeyne Westerling, a girl [[spoiler:he had sex with for comfort after learning of Bran and Rickon's death]], leads to him breaking an all-important marriage pact. This folly of youth ends up costing him [[spoiler:the loss of valuable support, leads to betrayal at the Red Wedding and his death and that of his mother]].
** Jon Snow [[spoiler:is thrust into the role of Lord Commander of the Night's Watch at age 16, in part due to Samwell Tarly's scheming. He has a gift for leadership and strategy as well as his father's sense of honor, but many of his officers don't respect him because of his youth, or mistrust him because of his illegitimate birth and time with the wildlings. He ends up betrayed and stabbed by his own men, and it's left ambiguous whether he survives.]]
** Daenerys, married at 13 and already a Queen at 16, has severely affected the slave trade and taken over Meereen. She even takes advantage of her age and sex so some of her enemies will underestimate her, but she's still subject to a teenage girl's lusts. The stresses of ruling and having to constantly compromise to the slavers laying siege to her city and holding slave auctions in front of her gates, and marrying a potential enemy to maintain a semblance of peace prove too much. She finds many of powerful factions in Meereen disrespect her, are displeased with her, and an attempt [[spoiler:is made on her life -- which she narrowly manages to avoid]]. In the conclusion of ''A Dance With Dragons,'' [[spoiler:she flees Meereen atop one of her dragons.]]
** [[spoiler: The boy king Tommen Baratheon]] signs any decree someone puts in front of him, making him very easy to manipulate.



** Robert claims to have taken power with his warhammer, but when he became king he found ruling more difficult than fighting, and as a result takes little interest in running the realm.

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** Robert claims to have taken power with his warhammer, war-hammer, but when he became king he found ruling more difficult than fighting, and as a result takes little interest in running the realm.
5th Mar '17 2:17:04 PM cherrychels
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** The Freys were already this before the war, mocked and looked down upon for being opportunistic weasels. But after [[spoiler:their betrayal in the Red Wedding]] they are now loathed by nearly everyone in the Riverlands and the North. Everyone in those regions will take the opportunity to kill every Frey they encounter if it presents itself, and people will not think twice when one of them dies. Heck, because many Northern and Riverlands Houses lost men and relatives to them, most break out into very thinly disguised schadenfreude upon hearing of the latest tragedy to befall the Freys -- in front of them. Also, even though the Riverlords have officially submitted to the Iron Throne, Jaime knows he can't rely on the people in reality and has to take hostages.

to:

** The Freys were already this before the war, mocked and looked down upon for being opportunistic weasels. But Now, after [[spoiler:their betrayal in the Red Wedding]] Wedding]], they are now loathed hated by nearly everyone in the Riverlands and the North. Everyone in those regions will take the opportunity to kill every Frey they encounter if it presents itself, and people will not think twice when one of them dies. Heck, because many Northern and Riverlands Houses lost men and relatives to them, most break out into very thinly disguised schadenfreude upon hearing of the latest tragedy to befall the Freys -- in front of them. Also, even though the Riverlords have officially submitted to the Iron Throne, Jaime knows he can't rely on the people in reality and has to take hostages.



** Jon Snow [[spoiler:is thrust into the role as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch at age 16, in part due to Samwell Tarly's scheming. He has a gift for leadership and strategy as well as his father's sense of honor, but many of his officers don't respect him because of his youth, or mistrust him because of his illegitimate birth and time with the wildlings. He ends up betrayed and stabbed by his own men, and it's left ambiguous whether he survives.]]

to:

** Jon Snow [[spoiler:is thrust into the role as of Lord Commander of the Night's Watch at age 16, in part due to Samwell Tarly's scheming. He has a gift for leadership and strategy as well as his father's sense of honor, but many of his officers don't respect him because of his youth, or mistrust him because of his illegitimate birth and time with the wildlings. He ends up betrayed and stabbed by his own men, and it's left ambiguous whether he survives.]]



** [[spoiler: Tommen]] signs any decree someone puts in front of him, making him very easy to manipulate.

to:

** [[spoiler: Tommen]] The boy king Tommen Baratheon]] signs any decree someone puts in front of him, making him very easy to manipulate.



** Aegon the Conquerer and his sister-wives fulfilled their desires to rule the continent of Westeros as a single Kingdom. In the process, they destroyed numerous Great Houses such as Hoare and the Gardeners, and forced each of the kingdoms to yield their sovereignity. From the perspective of their subjects, they were pretty much this trope in distilled form. Yet, in doing so, they unified the realm into one, putting an end to several millenia of intercontinental strife, removed Ironborn control of the Riverlands, and put several much needed reforms into practice. While they did a lot of harm initially, and it's unlikely they conquered a continent for selfless reasons, the Targaryen reign brought a lot of good in the long run, something Stannis Baratheon of all people actually appreciates.

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** Aegon the Conquerer and his sister-wives fulfilled their desires to rule the continent of Westeros as a single Kingdom. In the process, they destroyed numerous Great Houses such as Hoare and the Gardeners, and forced each of the kingdoms to yield their sovereignity.sovereignty. From the perspective of their subjects, they were pretty much this trope in distilled form. Yet, in doing so, they unified the realm into one, putting an end to several millenia of intercontinental strife, removed Ironborn control of the Riverlands, and put several much needed reforms into practice. While they did a lot of harm initially, and it's unlikely they conquered a continent for selfless reasons, the Targaryen reign brought a lot of good in the long run, something Stannis Baratheon of all people actually appreciates.



** Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully were married to tie the Riverlands to the Vale, with love hardly a factor. As it turns out however, not only was the marriage loveless, but Lysa [[spoiler: was utterly infatuated with her ChildhoodFriend and resident MagnificentBastard Petyr Baelish,]] who quickly took the oppurtunity to put the Lady of the Vale under his power. Compound this with serious insecurities and her overprotective nature towards her only son, and fears of losing him to injury, death, or simply as a ward, [[spoiler: Lysa, with Littlefinger's encouragement, jumped at the opportunity to poison her husband, and as such, acted as a partial cause in the War of the Five Kings.]]

to:

** Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully were married in order to tie the Riverlands to the Vale, with love hardly a factor. As it turns out out, however, not only was the marriage loveless, but Lysa [[spoiler: was utterly infatuated with her ChildhoodFriend and resident MagnificentBastard Petyr Baelish,]] who quickly took the oppurtunity opportunity to put the Lady of the Vale under his power. Compound this with serious insecurities and her overprotective nature towards her only son, and fears of losing him to injury, death, or simply as a ward, [[spoiler: Lysa, with Littlefinger's encouragement, jumped at the opportunity to poison her husband, and as such, acted as a partial cause in the War of the Five Kings.]]
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