History Creator / FriedrichNietzsche

9th Apr '17 6:43:25 PM nombretomado
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* [[SayonaraZetsubouSensei Arai Chie's]] name is a direct Nietzsche reference...for ''some'' reason. It's possible that it was suppose to foreshadow her personality (you can just feel faint traces of it, sort of) but the author never got around to it being a gag series and all.

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* [[SayonaraZetsubouSensei [[Manga/SayonaraZetsubouSensei Arai Chie's]] name is a direct Nietzsche reference...for ''some'' reason. It's possible that it was suppose to foreshadow her personality (you can just feel faint traces of it, sort of) but the author never got around to it being a gag series and all.
2nd Apr '17 12:48:38 PM DustSnitch
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** Chief among them were Creator/{{Socrates}} and {{Jesus}}. He regarded them both as something of a mixed bag: the former started a trend in Western culture that Nietzsche did not like but on the other hand did have some good ideas; he regarded what he considered to be the original teaching of Christianity (which he understood to be rather like Buddhism) to be excellent for the poor, sheepish masses in a healthy society, but also considered Jesus an "[[WideEyedIdealist idiot]]", and didn't like that Jesus' teaching was so easily [[WordOfSaintPaul twisted by the Apostle Paul and the Catholic Church]] (which he detested).

to:

** Chief among them were Creator/{{Socrates}} and {{Jesus}}.UsefulNotes/{{Jesus}}. He regarded them both as something of a mixed bag: the former started a trend in Western culture that Nietzsche did not like but on the other hand did have some good ideas; he regarded what he considered to be the original teaching of Christianity (which he understood to be rather like Buddhism) to be excellent for the poor, sheepish masses in a healthy society, but also considered Jesus an "[[WideEyedIdealist idiot]]", and didn't like that Jesus' teaching was so easily [[WordOfSaintPaul twisted by the Apostle Paul and the Catholic Church]] (which he detested).



** {{Jesus}} and Creator/{{Socrates}}. He regarded both as {{Ubermensch}}en who changed the course of history, although he didn't like where they went with it, or even more sharply what other people did with it after they died. On the other hand, in ''The Antichrist'' he described St. Paul as a contemptible StrawNihilist who encouraged ApatheticCitizens and HappinessInSlavery.

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** {{Jesus}} UsefulNotes/{{Jesus}} and Creator/{{Socrates}}. He regarded both as {{Ubermensch}}en who changed the course of history, although he didn't like where they went with it, or even more sharply what other people did with it after they died. On the other hand, in ''The Antichrist'' he described St. Paul as a contemptible StrawNihilist who encouraged ApatheticCitizens and HappinessInSlavery.
16th Mar '17 10:39:27 AM nombretomado
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* In ''TheNamelessMod'', an insane AI running the player through an obstacle course ([[VideoGame/{{Portal}} sounds familiar]]) refers to one room as "The Nietzsche Room" because "it makes you realize" that there is "no god". If the correct alliance and reasons choices are given, Kashue will use HeWhoFightsMonsters in the final level.

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* In ''TheNamelessMod'', ''VideoGame/TheNamelessMod'', an insane AI running the player through an obstacle course ([[VideoGame/{{Portal}} sounds familiar]]) refers to one room as "The Nietzsche Room" because "it makes you realize" that there is "no god". If the correct alliance and reasons choices are given, Kashue will use HeWhoFightsMonsters in the final level.
2nd Mar '17 9:10:14 AM Xtifr
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* WarIsGlorious: Somewhat. As mentioned above he is critical of war in one sense, and especially [[WarForFunAndProfit for how it was used and abused by the state for petty reasons]], but he regards conflict (in a general sense) as the great mover of history and ideas, and the fount of creativity. He also saw war as a way that a broken society might find renewed purpose, though he notes that a healthy society has no need for war. He admires numerous men who were soldiers and conquerors like Creator/JuliusCaesar, Cesare Borgia, UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte and UsefulNotes/AlexanderTheGreat, and frequently invoked war imagery in his writings especially when he was attacking someone (i.e. more often than not). He is strongly opposed to pacifism and after forming TheUbermensch he changed his mind about war, praising it. In one of his discourses, he commented that the Ubermensch would have to be more like Caesar, not Jesus. In his insane period he declared that Germany would fall shortly due to its war-making; he was dead on right. In other words- inconclusive.

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* WarIsGlorious: Somewhat. As mentioned above he is critical of war in one sense, and especially [[WarForFunAndProfit for how it was used and abused by the state for petty reasons]], but he regards conflict (in a general sense) as the great mover of history and ideas, and the fount of creativity. He also saw war as a way that a broken society might find renewed purpose, though he notes that a healthy society has no need for war. He admires numerous men who were soldiers and conquerors like Creator/JuliusCaesar, UsefulNotes/JuliusCaesar, Cesare Borgia, UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte and UsefulNotes/AlexanderTheGreat, and frequently invoked war imagery in his writings especially when he was attacking someone (i.e. more often than not). He is strongly opposed to pacifism and after forming TheUbermensch he changed his mind about war, praising it. In one of his discourses, he commented that the Ubermensch would have to be more like Caesar, not Jesus. In his insane period he declared that Germany would fall shortly due to its war-making; he was dead on right. In other words- inconclusive.
22nd Feb '17 2:03:30 AM Spindriver
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Added DiffLines:

* IronWoobie: Invoked. Nietzsche Was definitely an admirer of people who not only suffered deeply, but took their pains uncomplaining, and even harnessed them to their advantage, in the case of profound art or effective life lessons.
22nd Feb '17 1:59:31 AM Spindriver
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** ''The Wanderer and His Shadow'' (1880): Unusual for Nietzsche, comes the closest to touching on matters of political philosophy, with meditations on armament and war (he doesn't like them, and thinks the first leads to the second), the state (it sucks), and economics (capitalism and socialism both dehumanize people).

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** * ''The Wanderer and His Shadow'' (1880): Unusual for Nietzsche, comes the closest to touching on matters of political philosophy, with meditations on armament and war (he doesn't like them, and thinks the first leads to the second), the state (it sucks), and economics (capitalism and socialism both dehumanize people).



** Before Socrates, the proper way to prevail in any enterprise is to just *do* things. After Socrates, the proper way to win was to *talk* (or more accurately, argue and {{wangst}}) about doing things. Once [[NotSoOmniscientCouncilOfBickering arguing, bickering and lawyering]] become the way business is done, [[FlameWar bad arguments become unavoidable, and equally bad arguments tend to arise from opponents]]. This shift was profound and, in Nietzsche's mind, devastating.

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** Before Socrates, the proper way to prevail in any enterprise is to just *do* '''do''' things. After Socrates, the proper way to win was to *talk* '''talk''' (or more accurately, argue and {{wangst}}) about doing things. Once [[NotSoOmniscientCouncilOfBickering arguing, bickering and lawyering]] become the way business is done, [[FlameWar bad arguments become unavoidable, and equally bad arguments tend to arise from opponents]]. This shift was profound and, in Nietzsche's mind, devastating.



* IronWoobie: Definitely an admirer of people who not only suffered deeply, but took their pains uncomplaining, and even harnessed them to their advantage, in the case of profound art or effective life lessons.
22nd Feb '17 1:55:15 AM Spindriver
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* BrokenPedestal: Nietzsche started his writing career as a big fan of Richard Wagner's music and the messages embedded in them, and wrote effusive praise. As time went on, however, Nietzsche became disillusioned with Wagner's bombast and lack of subtlety, and eventually broke with him on Wagner's growing antisemitism and German Nationalism. One of his later works is a deconstruction of Wagner's works, both their aesthetic and political qualities.

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* BrokenPedestal: BrokenPedestal:
**
Nietzsche started his writing career as a big fan of Richard Wagner's music and the messages embedded in them, it, and wrote effusive praise.praised it effusively. As time went on, however, Nietzsche became disillusioned with Wagner's bombast and lack of subtlety, and eventually broke with him on Wagner's growing antisemitism and German Nationalism. One of his later works is a deconstruction of Wagner's works, both their aesthetic and political qualities.



* GratuitousForeignLanguage: Frequently [[AltumVidetur Latin]] or sometimes [[GratuitousGreek Greek]], as was common with most intellectual fields at that time, although he was just as likely to use GratuitousFrench or GratuitousEnglish when quoting something or other. In fairness, it usually wasn't gratuitous; he almost always had some philosophical purpose in every instance, and being a trained philologist he liked to demonstrate that commonly used words were often derived from words in Greek or Latin that had significantly different meanings. Indeed, his purpose could, at times, be downright practical: his use of the French word ''ressentiment'' (resentment) in ''On the Genealogy of Morality'' and afterward was basically because German doesn't have a word that could really translate to "resentment." A large part of ''Genealogy'' is devoted to arguing that most of our words for "good", meaning morally good, are derived from words that meant "noble", i.e. belonging to the upper echelons of society, whereas most of our words for "evil" are derived from words that referred to the poor and those on the fringes of society.
** Additionally, people citing Nietzsche are liable to use GratuitousGerman; even [[MainPage this very wiki]] is not immune, by titling the article on the overman "{{Ubermensch}}."

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* GratuitousForeignLanguage: GratuitousForeignLanguage:
**
Frequently [[AltumVidetur Latin]] or sometimes [[GratuitousGreek Greek]], as was common with in most intellectual fields at that time, although he was just as likely to use GratuitousFrench or GratuitousEnglish when quoting something or other.something. In fairness, it usually wasn't gratuitous; he almost always had some philosophical purpose in every instance, and being a trained philologist he liked to demonstrate that commonly used words were often derived from words in Greek or Latin that had significantly different meanings. Indeed, his purpose could, at times, be downright practical: his use of the French word ''ressentiment'' (resentment) in ''On the Genealogy of Morality'' and afterward was basically because German doesn't have a word that could really translate to "resentment." A large part of ''Genealogy'' is devoted to arguing that most of our words for "good", meaning morally good, are derived from words that meant "noble", i.e. belonging to the upper echelons of society, whereas most of our words for "evil" are derived from words that referred to the poor and those on the fringes of society.
** Additionally, Also, people citing Nietzsche are liable to use GratuitousGerman; even [[MainPage this very wiki]] is not immune, by titling the article on the overman "{{Ubermensch}}."



* HeWhoFightsMonsters: TropeNamer for that insistent pattern in revenge tragedies, and his reaction to Socrates. Before Socrates, the proper way to prevail in any enterprise is to just *do* things. After Socrates, the proper way to win was to *talk* (or more accurately, argue and {{wangst}}) about doing things. Once [[NotSoOmniscientCouncilOfBickering arguing, bickering and lawyering]] became the way business is done, [[FlameWar bad arguments become unavoidable, and equally bad arguments tend to spur from their opponents]]. This shift was profound and, in Nietzsche's mind, devastating.

to:

* HeWhoFightsMonsters: TropeNamer for that insistent pattern in revenge tragedies, and his reaction to Socrates. Socrates.
**
Before Socrates, the proper way to prevail in any enterprise is to just *do* things. After Socrates, the proper way to win was to *talk* (or more accurately, argue and {{wangst}}) about doing things. Once [[NotSoOmniscientCouncilOfBickering arguing, bickering and lawyering]] became become the way business is done, [[FlameWar bad arguments become unavoidable, and equally bad arguments tend to spur arise from their opponents]]. This shift was profound and, in Nietzsche's mind, devastating.



* SerialNumbersFiledOff: [[invoked]] Nietzsche accused many of his contemporary ethicists as doing this to Christianity, in that, for all their talk of abandoning Christianity and God, they still stuck stubbornly to the moral framework they had inherited from that faith, despite it no longer having a leg to stand on.
-->''"They are rid of the Christian God and now believe all the more firmly that they must cling to Christian morality. That is an English consistency; we do not wish to hold it against little moralistic females à la Eliot. In England one must rehabilitate oneself after every little emancipation from theology by showing in a veritably awe-inspiring manner what a moral fanatic one is. That is the penance they pay there. We others hold otherwise. When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one's feet. This morality is by no means self-evident: this point has to be exhibited again and again, despite the English flatheads. Christianity is a system, a whole view of things thought out together. By breaking one main concept out of it, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one's hands."''



** Whenever the terms "Übermensch," "Will-To-Power," "Master-slave morality," Nietzsche's rejection of egalitarianism/democracy and such comes up, distinctions between Nietzsche and Social Darwinism are severely blurred, hence Nietzsche's frequent misassociation with notable Social Darwinists like ThoseWackyNazis and radical {{transhuman}}ists. Note that Nietzsche wasn't really that much of a ''social'' Darwinist; his philosophy is rather different.

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** Whenever the terms "Übermensch," "Will-To-Power," or "Master-slave morality," or Nietzsche's rejection of egalitarianism/democracy and such comes come up, distinctions between Nietzsche and Social Darwinism are severely blurred, hence Nietzsche's frequent misassociation with notable Social Darwinists like ThoseWackyNazis and radical {{transhuman}}ists. Note that Nietzsche wasn't really that much of a ''social'' Darwinist; his philosophy is rather different.



* TheSociopath: Some people would assume this is what means to be an {{Ubermensch}}, although only the most self-centered of them would apply to the definition. And Nietzsche certainly didn't support sociopathy.
* TheStateless: Renounced his Prussian citizenship in 1869 and remained stateless until his death. He felt so out of sympathy with German culture that he used to entertain the idea that his family was actually ethnically Polish. (It wasn't, though.)
* StrawNihilist: The most common ThemeParkVersion of his philosophy, to the point where the trope was [[Administrivia/RenamedTropes originally named "Nietzsche Wannabe"]]. '''Nothing could be further from the truth: Nietzsche is ''not'' a nihilist''' and hated nihilists with a passion.
** He does talk about similar characters, and calls them Last Men. People afraid to make changes and choose their own meaning of life. He is not kind with {{Straw Nihilist}}s.

to:

* TheSociopath: Some people would assume this is what means to be an {{Ubermensch}}, although only the most self-centered of them would apply to fit the definition. And definition -- and Nietzsche certainly didn't support sociopathy.
* TheStateless: Renounced his Prussian citizenship in 1869 and remained stateless until his death. He felt so out of sympathy with German culture that he used to entertain the idea that his family was actually ethnically Polish. (It wasn't, though.wasn't.)
* StrawNihilist: The most common ThemeParkVersion of his philosophy, to the point where the trope was [[Administrivia/RenamedTropes originally named "Nietzsche Wannabe"]]. '''Nothing could be further from the truth: Nietzsche is was ''not'' a nihilist''' and hated nihilists with a passion.
**
passion. He does talk talks about similar characters, and calls them Last Men. "Last Men" -- People afraid to make changes and choose their own meaning of life. He is not kind with to {{Straw Nihilist}}s.



* {{Ubermensch}}: While this character was originally his idea (and it's actually even more complex than what could be described in that trope page), it's subverted because Nietzsche never considered himself as this, even considering himself to be more of the Last Man, because in his original works the Ubermensch is supposed to be "healthy" and his sickliness rendered him incapable of doing anything truly Ubermensch-related. He did not even bother defining this character archetype well, thus the flame wars here on the internet and in the academic world.
** He did, however, point out a few historical figures who were either Ubermenschen or very close; for the most part, in contrast to the popular misconception of Nietzsche advocating {{transhuman}}ism (a literal take on "übermensch") or complete sociopathy (as with ThoseWackyNazis), the proto-übermenschen tend to be instead relatively benign philosophers and the founders of influential schools of thought.\\
\\
Chief among them were Creator/{{Socrates}} and {{Jesus}}. He regarded them both as something of a mixed bag: the former started a trend in Western culture that Nietzsche did not like but on the other hand did have some good ideas; he regarded what he considered to be the original teaching of Christianity (which he understood to be rather like Buddhism) to be excellent to apply for the poor, sheepish masses in a healthy society, but also considered Jesus an "[[WideEyedIdealist idiot]]", and didn't like that Jesus' teaching was so easily [[WordOfSaintPaul twisted by the Apostle Paul and the Catholic Church]] (which he detested). \\
\\
He also seemed to regard Gautama Buddha as one. He liked what he saw in Buddhism as a realist philosophy that actually tries to deal with real-world suffering instead of the vague word "sin" though he did disapprove of the nihilistic aspects, namely reduction of suffering as a means towards non-existence, and disliked its attention towards an otherworldly goal.\\
\\
The closest he came to having a hero among modern men was Creator/JohannWolfgangVonGoethe, who he regarded (with some justification) as having emancipated himself from the common prejudices of his time and place, and who he praised without reservation in ''Twilight of the Idols'' as "the last German before whom I feel reverence."

to:

* {{Ubermensch}}: While this character was originally his idea (and it's actually even more complex than what could be described in that trope page), it's subverted because Nietzsche never considered himself as this, even considering himself to be more of the a Last Man, because in his original works the Ubermensch is supposed to be "healthy" and his sickliness rendered him incapable of doing anything truly Ubermensch-related. He did not even bother defining this character archetype well, thus the flame wars here on the internet and in the academic world.
**
world.\\\
He did, however, point out a few historical figures who were either Ubermenschen or very close; for the most part, in contrast to the popular misconception of Nietzsche advocating {{transhuman}}ism (a literal take on "übermensch") or complete sociopathy (as with ThoseWackyNazis), the proto-übermenschen tend to be instead relatively benign philosophers and the founders of influential schools of thought.\\
\\
thought.
**
Chief among them were Creator/{{Socrates}} and {{Jesus}}. He regarded them both as something of a mixed bag: the former started a trend in Western culture that Nietzsche did not like but on the other hand did have some good ideas; he regarded what he considered to be the original teaching of Christianity (which he understood to be rather like Buddhism) to be excellent to apply for the poor, sheepish masses in a healthy society, but also considered Jesus an "[[WideEyedIdealist idiot]]", and didn't like that Jesus' teaching was so easily [[WordOfSaintPaul twisted by the Apostle Paul and the Catholic Church]] (which he detested). \\
\\
detested).
**
He also seemed to regard Gautama Buddha as one. He liked what he saw in Buddhism as a realist philosophy that actually tries to deal with real-world suffering instead of the vague word "sin" though he did disapprove of the nihilistic aspects, namely reduction of suffering as a means towards non-existence, and disliked its attention towards an otherworldly goal.\\
\\
** The closest he came to having a hero among modern men was Creator/JohannWolfgangVonGoethe, who he regarded (with some justification) as having emancipated himself from the common prejudices of his time and place, and who he praised without reservation in ''Twilight of the Idols'' as "the last German before whom I feel reverence."



* The new opening of ''LightNovel/HaruhiSuzumiya'' contains the phrase "Gott ist tot." You may now take this in whichever way you want.
** Some people have pointed out that Haruhi going to all the clubs and then leaving when they're empty of what she wants happens to be almost exactly what The Madman does in Nietzsche's ''The Gay Science'', which is where "Gott ist tot" comes from.
* [[SayonaraZetsubouSensei Arai Chie's]] name is a direct Nietzsche reference...for ''some'' reason.
** It's possible that it was suppose to foreshadow her personality (you can just feel faint traces of it, sort of) but the author never got around to it being a gag series and all.

to:

* The new opening of ''LightNovel/HaruhiSuzumiya'' contains the phrase "Gott ist tot." You may now take this in whichever way you want.
**
want. Some people have pointed out that Haruhi going to all the clubs and then leaving when they're empty of what she wants happens to be almost exactly what The Madman does in Nietzsche's ''The Gay Science'', which is where "Gott ist tot" comes from.
* [[SayonaraZetsubouSensei Arai Chie's]] name is a direct Nietzsche reference...for ''some'' reason.
**
reason. It's possible that it was suppose to foreshadow her personality (you can just feel faint traces of it, sort of) but the author never got around to it being a gag series and all.
22nd Feb '17 1:37:28 AM Spindriver
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* SerialNumbersFiledOff: Accused many of his contemporary ethicists as being this in regards to Christianity, that for all their talk of abandoning Christianity and God, they still stuck stubbornly to the moral framework they inherited from the faith, despite it no longer having a leg to stand on.
-->''"They are rid of the Christian God and now believe all the more firmly that they must cling to Christian morality. That is an English consistency; we do not wish to hold it against little moralistic females à la Eliot. In England one must rehabilitate oneself after every little emancipation from theology by showing in a veritably awe-inspiring manner what a moral fanatic one is. That is the penance they pay there. We others hold otherwise. When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one's feet. This morality is by no means self-evident: this point has to be exhibited again and again, despite the English flatheads. Christianity is a system, a whole view of things thought out together. By breaking one main concept out of it, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one's hands."''
* ShrugOfGod: Many of works make it clear that the reader is urged to make up their own mind on certain things, most obviously when there are self-contradictory statements. Too bad they didn't have [[SincerityMode pot]][[SarcasmMode holes]] back then.
17th Jan '17 5:03:21 AM Anarquistador
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* OutgrownSuchSillySuperstitions: Or rather, we need to. One of the main themes of his work was that God is Dead and science has rendered conventional morality irrelevant, and the only reason we still have it is because we're afraid to let go of it. But once we do let go of it, we'll be free to create a new world that works better.

to:

* OutgrownSuchSillySuperstitions: Or rather, we need to. One of the main themes of his work was that God is Dead and science has rendered conventional morality irrelevant, and the only reason we still have it is because we're simply afraid to let go of it. it and live in a world without inherent rules. But once we muster up the courage to do let go of it, so, we'll be free to create a new world our own rules and our own world, that works better.
29th Dec '16 7:43:23 PM zarpaulus
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* NietzscheWannabe

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* NietzscheWannabeThe old name of StrawNihilist was "Nietzsche Wannabe" (see below)
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Creator.FriedrichNietzsche