Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 34 (click to see context) from:
* DependingOnTheWriter: Just how stable the fusions are depends on whether or not Toriyama wrote them, as under Toei the timer isn't consistent. In Z's manga, Goten and Trunks mention that [=SS3=] ended their fusion early, but it doesn't happen once they fight Buu, and in [[Anime/DragonBallSuperBroly Broly]], Gogeta doesn't have any timer related issues either. Toriyama's notes from Zamasu's arc also didn't have Vegetto around, which would explaint why he unfuses so fast in the battle, while Zamasu didn't[[note]]In the anime Zamasu explicitly doesn't have a time limit, but in the manga he does, which makes him outlasting Vegetto by such a large margin weird[[/note]]. Essentially under Toei, fusions are inconsistent and only are around for as long as the plot needs it, but under Toriyama they're surprisingly stable and take a while to actually defuse.
to:
* DependingOnTheWriter: Just how stable the fusions are depends on whether or not Toriyama wrote them, as under Toei the timer isn't consistent. In Z's manga, Goten and Trunks mention that [=SS3=] ended their fusion early, but it doesn't happen once they fight Buu, and in [[Anime/DragonBallSuperBroly Broly]], Gogeta doesn't have any timer related issues either. Toriyama's notes from Zamasu's arc also didn't have Vegetto around, which would explaint explain why he unfuses so fast in the battle, while Zamasu didn't[[note]]In the anime Zamasu explicitly doesn't have a time limit, but in the manga he does, which makes him outlasting Vegetto by such a large margin weird[[/note]]. Essentially under Toei, fusions are inconsistent and only are around for as long as the plot needs it, but under Toriyama they're surprisingly stable and take a while to actually defuse.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* DependingOnTheWriter: Just how stable the fusions are depends on whether or not Toriyama wrote them, as under Toei the timer isn't consistent. In Z's manga, Goten and Trunks mention that [=SS3=] ended their fusion early, but it doesn't happen once they fight Buu, and in [[Anime/DragonBallSuperBroly Broly]], Gogeta doesn't have any timer related issues either. Toriyama's notes from Zamasu's arc also didn't have Vegetto around, which would explaint why he unfuses so fast in the battle, while Zamasu didn't[[note]]In the anime Zamasu explicitly doesn't have a time limit, but in the manga he does, which makes him outlasting Vegetto by such a large margin weird[[/note]]. Essentially under Toei, fusions are inconsistent and only are around for as long as the plot needs it, but under Toriyama they're surprisingly stable and take a while to actually defuse.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* TheWorfEffect:
** On one hand, Kefla is shown easily handling Goku in his Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20. The manga also has her [[CurbstompBattle stomping]] most of the Pride Troopers.
** On the other hand, she's on the receiving end when facing Goku in Ultra Instinct Sign. It should be noted that in terms of raw power, Kefla is actually stronger than UIS Goku. And yet she's on the wrong end of the stomping, showing how significant UI is to close the power gap between Goku and Kefla.
** On one hand, Kefla is shown easily handling Goku in his Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20. The manga also has her [[CurbstompBattle stomping]] most of the Pride Troopers.
** On the other hand, she's on the receiving end when facing Goku in Ultra Instinct Sign. It should be noted that in terms of raw power, Kefla is actually stronger than UIS Goku. And yet she's on the wrong end of the stomping, showing how significant UI is to close the power gap between Goku and Kefla.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 15,16 (click to see context) from:
[[Characters/DragonBallSonGoku Son Goku]] ([[Characters/DragonBallSonGokuTropesAToC A-C]] | [[Characters/DragonBallSonGokuTropesDToH D-H]] | [[Characters/DragonBallSonGokuTropesIToO I-O]] | [[Characters/DragonBallSonGokuTropesPToZ P-Z]]) | [[Characters/DragonBallBulma Bulma]] | [[Characters/DragonBallKrillin Krillin/Kuririn]] | [[Characters/DragonBallPiccolo Piccolo]] | [[Characters/DragonBallSonGohan Son Gohan]] | [[Characters/DragonBallVegeta Vegeta]] ([[Characters/DragonBallVegetaTropesAToD A-D]] | [[Characters/DragonBallVegetaTropesEToN E-N]] | [[Characters/DragonBallVegetaTropesOToZ O-Z]]) | [[Characters/DragonBallFutureTrunks Future Trunks]] | [[Characters/DragonBallAllies Allies]] | [[Characters/DragonBallFamiliesAndFriends Families & Friends]] ([[Characters/DragonBallChichi Chi-Chi]] | [[Characters/DragonBallAndroids17And18 Androids 17 and 18]] | [[Characters/DragonBallTrunksAndSonGoten Trunks and Son Goten]] | [[Characters/DragonBallMrSatan Mr. Satan/Hercule]]) | '''Fusions'''-]]]]]
to:
[[Characters/DragonBallSonGoku Son Goku]] ([[Characters/DragonBallSonGokuTropesAToC A-C]] | [[Characters/DragonBallSonGokuTropesDToH D-H]] | [[Characters/DragonBallSonGokuTropesIToO I-O]] | [[Characters/DragonBallSonGokuTropesPToZ P-Z]]) ([[Characters/DragonBallSonGokuTropesAToH A-H]], [[Characters/DragonBallSonGokuTropesIToZ I-Z]]) | [[Characters/DragonBallBulma Bulma]] | [[Characters/DragonBallKrillin Krillin/Kuririn]] | [[Characters/DragonBallPiccolo Piccolo]] | [[Characters/DragonBallSonGohan Son Gohan]] | [[Characters/DragonBallVegeta Vegeta]] ([[Characters/DragonBallVegetaTropesAToD A-D]] | [[Characters/DragonBallVegetaTropesEToN E-N]] | [[Characters/DragonBallVegetaTropesOToZ O-Z]]) ([[Characters/DragonBallVegetaTropesAToL A-L]], [[Characters/DragonBallVegetaTropesMToZ M-Z]]) | [[Characters/DragonBallFutureTrunks Future Trunks]] | [[Characters/DragonBallAllies Allies]] ([[Characters/DragonBallDragonTeam Dragon Team/Z Fighters]]) | [[Characters/DragonBallFamiliesAndFriends Families & Friends]] ([[Characters/DragonBallChichi Chi-Chi]] | [[Characters/DragonBallAndroids17And18 [[Characters/DragonBallFamilies Families]] ([[Characters/DragonBallAndroids17And18 Androids 17 and 18]] | [[Characters/DragonBallTrunksAndSonGoten Trunks and Son Goten]] Goten]]) | [[Characters/DragonBallMrSatan Mr. Satan/Hercule]]) [[Characters/DragonBallFriends Friends]] | '''Fusions'''-]]]]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 95 (click to see context) from:
* ExplainingYourPowerToTheEnemy: While fighting Super Buu, he ends up revealing that the FusionDance only lasts for half an hour, and Trunks and Goten have to wait an hour after it ends to fuse again. After being [[CurbStompBattle curb-stomped]] by Ultimate Gohan, Super Buu uses this to his advantage by self-destructing and laying low for an hour before coming forward and baiting the two into fusing again so he can absorb Gotenks and turn the tables on Gohan.
to:
* ExplainingYourPowerToTheEnemy: While fighting Super Buu, he ends up revealing that the FusionDance only lasts for half an hour, and Trunks and Goten have to wait an hour after it ends to fuse again. After being [[CurbStompBattle curb-stomped]] by Ultimate Gohan, Super Buu uses this to his advantage by self-destructing and laying low for an hour before coming forward and baiting the two into fusing again so he can absorb Gotenks (and Piccolo for his intelligence) and turn the tables on Gohan.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Image quality upgrade
Changed line(s) 59 (click to see context) from:
[[quoteright:350:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/161d1e73_3081_4c4a_8adc_a4f87d227d69.jpeg]]
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
* AdaptationalBadass: Downplayed or played straight, depending on your point of view. While his Super Saiyan form was extremely powerful, his strength was upped dramatically in ''GT'' where he becomes a Super Saiyan 4. He was the most powerful character in the franchise until the post-''Battle of Gods'' era. In the new era, it's somewhat nebulous as to how powerful Super Saiyan 4 is compared to Blue,[[note]]The only time they've appeared together is ''Heroes'', which not only plays hard and fast with continuity and power levels but has the two forms fight in 3 adaptations of the same story, each with a different result: the manga and anime have them clash evenly, with the anime seemingly though disputably implying 4 is stronger through fusion the game has Blue come out on top.[[/note]] but the fact remains that he's clearly a strong fighter. [[spoiler:In ''Anime/DragonBallSuperBroly'', Gogeta Blue is arguably the strongest non-angelic character outside of perhaps Burning Ultimate Warrior Jiren and Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku. Plus by virtue of how strong Goku and Vegeta have become since the Future Trunks Saga, he is inherently stronger than his Potara counterpart in his last appearance]].
Deleted line(s) 304 (click to see context) :
* AdaptationalBadass: Downplayed or played straight, depending on your point of view. While his Super Saiyan form was extremely powerful, his strength was upped dramatically in ''GT'' where he becomes a Super Saiyan 4. He was the most powerful character in the franchise until the post-''Battle of Gods'' era. In the new era, it's somewhat nebulous as to how powerful Super Saiyan 4 is compared to Blue,[[note]]The only time they've appeared together is ''Heroes'', which not only plays hard and fast with continuity and power levels but has the two forms fight in 3 adaptations of the same story, each with a different result: the manga and anime have them clash evenly, with the anime seemingly though disputably implying 4 is stronger through fusion the game has Blue come out on top.[[/note]] but the fact remains that he's clearly a strong fighter. [[spoiler:In ''Anime/DragonBallSuperBroly'', Gogeta Blue is arguably the strongest non-angelic character outside of perhaps Burning Ultimate Warrior Jiren and Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku. Plus by virtue of how strong Goku and Vegeta have become since the Future Trunks Saga, he is inherently stronger than his Potara counterpart in his last appearance]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
* PoorCommunicationKills: If he had made an effort to tell or signal Piccolo that his struggling with Buu was just for show, the Namekian wouldn't have resorted to trapping all three of them in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to inflict an AndIMustScream situation.
Deleted line(s) 130 (click to see context) :
* PoorCommunicationKills: If he had made an effort to tell or signal Piccolo that his struggling with Buu was just for show, the Namekian wouldn't have resorted to trapping all three of them in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to inflict an AndIMustScream situation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 47 (click to see context) from:
* {{Retcon}}: The Metamoran fusion was stated to have a cooldown time of one hour after fusion (failed or successful), meaning it was quite easy to eat up time if it wasn't done right, however, this is quickly forgotten and fusees can just fuse again right after separation if nothing stops them (such as in GT). It also said that fusees needed to be the same height (or near it), which is also forgotten about considering Goku is about half a foot taller than Vegeta and can fuse with him just fine.
to:
* {{Retcon}}: {{Retcon}}:
** The Metamoran fusion was stated to have a cooldown time of one hour after fusion (failed or successful), meaning it was quite easy to eat up time if it wasn't done right, however, this is quickly forgotten and fusees can just fuse again right after separation if nothing stops them (such as in GT). It also said that fusees needed to be the same height (or near it), which is also forgotten about considering Goku is about half a foot taller than Vegeta and can fuse with him just fine.
** The Metamoran fusion was stated to have a cooldown time of one hour after fusion (failed or successful), meaning it was quite easy to eat up time if it wasn't done right, however, this is quickly forgotten and fusees can just fuse again right after separation if nothing stops them (such as in GT). It also said that fusees needed to be the same height (or near it), which is also forgotten about considering Goku is about half a foot taller than Vegeta and can fuse with him just fine.
Changed line(s) 90 (click to see context) from:
* DemotedToComicRelief: While Gotenks was ''always'' a source of comedy in the Buu Saga, his last fight had him take things seriously and come ridiculously close to killing Super Buu (and would have had it not been for his time limit being shortened). Come ''Super'', Gotenks is only used for laughs, being beaten quite easily and quickly without contributing. In ''Super Hero'', [[spoiler:Trunks and Goten are so out of practice with the fusion dance that they flub it and have to fight Cell Max as Fat Gotenks. He contributes more as a sentient projectile than an actual fighter.]]
to:
* DemotedToComicRelief: While Gotenks was ''always'' a source of comedy in the Buu Saga, his last fight had him take things seriously and come ridiculously close to killing Super Buu (and would have had it not been for his time limit being shortened). Come ''Super'', Gotenks is only used for laughs, being beaten quite easily and quickly without contributing. In ''Super Hero'', [[spoiler:Trunks and Goten are so out of practice with the fusion dance that they flub it and have to fight Cell Max as Fat Gotenks. He contributes more as a sentient projectile than an actual fighter.]] The manga adaptation of the arc is even worse, as it not only fails once, but ''twice''.]]
Added DiffLines:
* {{Flanderization}}: More or less goes from a self absorbed jerk who takes way too long to finally get serious to a complete joke that either accomplishes nothing in his screentime or flubs his fusion and contributes ''next'' to nothing in ''Super''. For the record, the only two times Gotenks's fusion failed was due to never having experience beforehand.
Added DiffLines:
* PoorCommunicationKills: If he had made an effort to tell or signal Piccolo that his struggling with Buu was just for show, the Namekian wouldn't have resorted to trapping all three of them in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to inflict an AndIMustScream situation.
Added DiffLines:
* WillfullyWeak: Purposely draws out the fight against Super Buu just to build up to revealing Super Saiyan 3 when things looked dire, this costs him a ''lot'' when Piccolo believe Gotenks really is at his limit.
Added DiffLines:
* WhatHappenedToTheMouse: Despite being a pretty powerful technique, they haven't seen use since the fight with Super Buu, though partially justified in that Gotenks hasn't had an opportunity to fight like that ever since.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
* ItsAllAboutMe: Perhaps the most damning thing about Gotenks is that despite being a hero, he considers life or death situations an opportunity to show off and look cool rather than simply do what needs to be done. Despite Piccolo commenting multiple times that he needs to take care of Buu and stop messing around, it takes until both his components mothers and all their allies have been seemingly killed for Gotenks to '''finally''' take things serious enough to come within moments of killing Super Buu.
Changed line(s) 137 (click to see context) from:
* TookALevelInJerkass: He takes Trunks' haughtiness and cranks it up to levels that would make Vegeta blush.
to:
* TookALevelInJerkass: He takes Trunks' haughtiness and cranks it up to levels that would make Vegeta blush.groan in annoyance at this antics.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* CavalierCompetitor: Gotenks treats saving the world as if it was nothing more than an opportunity to show off, which leads to him making a bunch of flashy but impractical moves to use even when people are dying and the world is in serious danger.
