This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Sean Tucker: This needs a Troper Tales entry.
- Ask and ye shall receive.
Antheia: The Troper Tales entry for this article needs to be used more. I just moved a ton of examples there from the main page.
Sciatrix: Speaking of, what's happened to the Troper Tales entry? It's all gone now.
Freezer: Retooling the Robotman entry. Turns out I remembered the facts completely wrong.
Nerdanel: Have Benoit Sokal's works been translated in English? A quick googling came up empty, so I couldn't use the English title for an English-language wiki. I'm talking about the character who is Canardo in French and Ankardo in Finnish.
TTD: Great trope. The description needs to be cleaned up just a bit as right now it sounds like "Argh, stupid parents!" More importantly, is there an SA Goon in the house who can ask if we may use the first photoshop on this page
as a title graphic?
- Mr Initial Man: I'm surprised it got so big so fast!
alliterator: I added one I photoshopped (well, GIMPed...okay that sounds weird) myself. I hope that's okay.
- Mr Initial Man: Looks fine to me, alliterator.
Idle Dandy: All those folktales, though grisly by modern standards, were indeed originally told to children to Scare 'Em Straight.
- Yes, but now we have Public Service Announcements, Very Special Episodes and Reefer Madness to do that. But you're right, these could be the Ur-examples of Moral Dissonance.
Pro-Mole: Yeah, I was one of the kids who saw Evangelion... anywhat, it wasn't difficult to ignore all the... well, everything that wasn't robot-fight. Then again, I somewhat regret doing that...
Vampire Buddha: I've tweaked the anime and manga sections and the Harry Potter example, and removed the His Dark Materials example - HDS is a children's series, and the author is very up-front about how he wants kids to read them. I also trimmed a bit of natter:
- ** One troper's fourth-grade teacher once admitted that it was intended as an adult movie, but he still showed it in class. So Yeah.** Heh, I've heard the opposite thought, from a guy who studies literature as a serious pastime: "If it's a serious story and a good look at the Japanese historical setting, why would he need to dress it up with cute little animals?"
- Tell that guy that some of us illustrators think humans are a right bitch to have to draw over and over.
** The fact that Usagi became a recurring character on the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon, and had an action figure in their line, didn't help matters much. Of course, the TMNT's own comic would probably cause similar amounts of trauma for the young fans of the show, which is likely why Eastman and Laird felt the need to license Archie Comics to make a more wholesome comic.** Stan Sakai, by the way, made the quote at the beginning of the page when asked if people ever said "That's not funny!" when responding to Usagi Yojimbo. This troper happened to attend that panel, and now has a DVD featuring that panel. ^^(To this day, she'd give anything within reason to know how that worked out for them.)** In all likelihood, not well.
"HDS is a children's series, and the author is very up-front about how he wants kids to read them."
I don't usually call stuff like this into question (There Is No Such Thing As Notability yadda yadda), but has Pullman ever explicitly described the trilogy as a children's book series? Right from the first novel, I'd assumed I had found it in a children's book store thanks to somebody's boneheaded assumption that fantasy - yes, even fantasy with sex, violence, and Nightmare Fuel Unleaded - is for children, and that this was an example of a communication breakdown between America and England. If the books were designed right from the start as a kids series... there's actually a different communication breakdown I guess.
Lale: He's outright said it wasn't intended for children, hence all the exploration of sexuality, but people thought it was because the protagonists are children.
TTD: In any case, I'm cutting this natter. (I have to agree with the last person though. Sorry for the spoiler but the "Dust" is God, specifically in the more abstract consciousness that holds The Multiverse together sense.):
- Amazingly enough, according to Word of God, it is intended for children.
- Of course, Word of God also says that God doesn't exist (I'm aware of what I've just done and I'm proud!) and the point of the books is to teach people that. Take from that what you will. Personally I've lost any respect I might have had for the guy.
- I can't take it anymore. What fucked-up version of HDM did you read?
Sylocat: I couldn't resist adding a parable about some friends of mine who work as clerks in stores that sell video games. It's sort of a Take That! against parents who use TV as a cheap babysitter for their kids (and a true, and chilling, story about the most common response from said parents). Is it too filled with bile? Even though it's true, and horrifying by most any standards?
Antheia: The text is fine, but it shouldn't really be among the examples. I moved the part about the friends who worked in video game stores to the Troper Tale page. Perhaps the part about parents using TV or video games as a baby sitter could be worked into the main article? I'll put it here for now:
Parents, particularly in America, have a long history of using TV as a low-cost babysitter for their kids, and since "parenting", to these people, is nothing but a synonym for "get the kid to stop screaming", they just buy new video games to get their kids to sit still for a couple hours, just so they can duck their parental responsibilities.
igordebraga: agustinaldo... you don't need to tell every film that is dubbed, it's not such a big deal for family-friendly (I live in Brazil, where even movies with 12-14 ratings receive this treatment). The Disney part is discussing how the original works aren't that family-friendly, no need to put a Nightmare Fuel example ([[Nightmare Fuel/Disney which we already have]]). Turning more kid-friendly like TMNT does not enter the scope of this trope. Simple stories and opinions are disencouraged (specially because there are sometimes separate pages are created for the former, and you employ the worst opinions - negative- on the latter). Also, "Children" is plural, no need for an S.
Nornagest: I'm detecting a certain whiny edge to the examples here — and worse, a lot of the stuff here actually is for kids or young teenagers, as in shounen and shoujo anime. Some of it is better covered by Moral Dissonance or occasionally Values Dissonance. Is this a trope in itself, or just a way to complain by proxy about your childhood traumas and the stupidity of your local video store clerks?
Trouser Wearing Barbarian: Seriously. The other day I had to delete Yu Gi Oh, of all things.
Incidentally, I made a trope called "What Do You Mean, It's For Kids?" about how some people assume that something made for kids/young teens is for adults because of Values Dissonance or just because they think "for kids = crap", but it was quickly cut (without me even knowing about it...yeah, I bitter) by someone who thought that it was just "complaining about periphery demographics." But for some reason, this page is totally acceptable. =P
Pastafarian: I really think this page has gone a bit overboard. Sure, there's stuff that little kids probably shouldn't be exposed to until they're older. But a lot of the things listed here (i.e., Watership Down, Princess Mononoke) shouldn't really be much of a big deal for kids out of preschool, whatever the Moral Guardians may have you believe.
Removed:
- Heart of Darkness. It's got a cartoony art style. It's rated E. And every single time your character dies, it's a grotesque horror show that might actually be diminished by adding actual blood and gore to the mix. And you'll be seeing your character die a lot, because the game is viciously difficult. And that's not even touching on a particularly vicious Sadist Teacher in the opening, or the enemies ranging from "disturbing" to "outright nightmarish".
- In Australia, HoD was rated MA 15+ (we run on G-PG-M-MA-R), but this troper managed to convince his mother that the video store had simply stuck the wrong rating tag on. I was eight at the time, and I loved the game then (I played it up to the final boss, though I never managed to win) and I love it now, though my disc is screwed over. Hilariously, my best friend's mother bought the same game for him when he was the same age, but refused to let us play Mech Warrior until we were ten because of it's PG rating.
- Not to be confused with the other Heart Of Darkness, which definitely definitely isn't for kids, but nobody (hopefully) ever thought it was.
The game's deaths are no worse than what's seen in your average Legendof Zelda game and when it all comes down to it, it's still very much a game for kids.
Nezumi: I'm really not sure how much it's for kids. The difficulty alone raises issues, there. And, personally, I'd say the deaths are a lot worse than what you see in a typical Legend of Zelda game. Last time I played Legend of Zelda, no-one was munched by a giant toad demon with impossible stretching, torn apart by a herd of imps, swallowed whole by sea anemones, eaten alive by a giant worm leaving only a dangling sneaker that presumably still has a food in it, etc. I'm personally very glad I didn't get it when I was younger, despite seriously considering it. Possibly a case of Your Mileage May Vary.
JP 4490: I removed this:
- This troper's library had a Creature Comforts video in the children's section.
because, while not strictly 'for kids', Creature Comforts isn't really child-unfriendly (the UK DV Ds only have a PG rating.) It's on a tone more like The Simpsons, where kids can enjoy it on one level (funny animals, visual gags), with any 'adult' stuff going over their heads.
Does Sailor Moon really belong here? I mean, as much as I like it, it is a kids' show. The English dub might have dumbed it down somewhat (not really familiar with it), but the original definitely didn't contain anything seriously creepy/scary enough to be comparable with Princess Mononoke or Grave Of The Fireflies.
Regiment: Cut a little bit of Natter:
- But the public in general knows that Lord of the Flies is not for little kids!
- No, they don't! Don't overestimate the literary knowledge of the public in general. Most don't know that such a thing as "Lord of the Flies" exists.
- Oh, yeah? What about Children of the Corn, The Omen, The Exorcist, The Ring, The Grudge, Village of the Damned...?
- This troper considers Princess Mononoke a fantastic family film — appropriate for all without being pabulum.
- Precisely. I'd quite happily show it to anyone as there's not a great deal in it worse than your typical disney flick - same as, say, Totoro or Laputa. Now, Spirited Away, Grave or even Pom Poko... not so much. If it doesn't bring on a freakout similar to the worst of what late 70s or early-mid 80s western animation could provoke (Spirited, mainly), then there's going to be either straight-up tears or a whole lot of awkward questions.
- Obviously the word "boobs" is too much for developing children.
- Not to add to the natter, but the employees of HPB know what they are doing.
- The Manson Family, maybe....
- Monster? Seriously? Graphic and realistic scenes involving prostitues, naked women, 0% modesty, graphic violence, Anyone Can Die, and deep, dark themes?
- It's easy, when you never look at the insides of a book! and possibly thsoe guys also think that Watchmen is kiddie stuff.
- Other "Not for kids" things include same sex couples... Quelle horreur!
- There's nothing about same sex couples that is "Inappropriate" for kids. Sadly the morons who dubbed the anime lacked the requisite number of brain cells to understand that.
- Also, there are homophobic idiots that would have had Sailor Moon pulled from the air if they had decided to keep it... which they sort of did anyway, regardless of certan implications...
- One More Day has Spider-Man pretty much had the Devil to turn back time so that Peter never revealed his secret identity, and he and MJ were never married (and therefore would never have a child). The Wallbanger in this is that Joe Quesada thought simply divorcing MJ would make him less relatable. Really, compared to bargaining with Satan to abort a potential future offspring, divorce is unrelatable?
- Oh my god... this troper's obsession with dark talking-animal films has never been more craved with curiosity!
- Ummm....actually, that movie is for kids. It was one of this tropers' favorite movies when she was little... a lot of kids things are full of Nightmare Fuel. Why else do you think there's a separate page for horrors aimed at adults?
- Replace "partially" with "definitely".
- Maybe because the kids have good taste in movies?
- Or maybe just idiocy on the part of the parents. This troper, a Barnes & Noble employee, had a parent call in and ask to return the movie for the "english version. I don't want to have read for the entire movie," he said. Keep in mind—he was calling a bookstore.
- This troper's little brother watched the 15-certed Batman Returns when he was four. This troper, who normally isn't easily frightened, was a little freaked out by the scene where Max Shreck shoves Catwoman out the window — and yet his little brother sat there docile as a lamb. A subversion of this trope, perhaps?
- I know. It's genius.
- Nevertheless, this troper watched it countless times at age six, with no nightmares. It did attain a fair amount of popularity among viewers young and old. (Interestingly, the mostly 18- and 19-year-old test audience largely walked out early on the final cut, but director Robert Zemeckis decided not to change a thing.)
- Likewise. This 20-year-old troper probably hasn't seen the movie in 17 years—completely forgotten most of the details, actually, so it was hardly scarring to my young mind.
- No, it's still fair. If you're goddamn stupid enough to take a 5 year old to an R rated movie, you've brought it all on yourself.
- The fact that it's rated '''R''' for "strong graphic violence, sexuality, nudity and language" did not deter them in the slightest.
- Ack, that review was still filled with some major wallbangers.
- That woman is Completely Missing The Point. Hell, I think the point left with Doctor Manhattan when he went to another galaxy
- She can't even grasp the point the theme of an Alternate History, criticizing it for "going around presenting a false view of history." Why is it the idiots without a coherent argument that niggle your mind the most?
- With all the rape, violence and moral ambiguity, one of this woman's first-stated fears is...your kids might learn what a LESBIAN is! She also calls the first Silk Spectre "slutty." Guess she agrees with Blake that she must be wearing that outfit for a reason.
- This Troper is convinced that quite a few childhoods would have been saved if they dared show the mothers of the world Dr. Manhattan's penis in the trailers.
- They actually did. It just wasn't detailed enough.
- Oh yeah, that's what'll traumatise the kids. Not the attempted rape or the brutal murders. A non-erect penis.
- Added points for one of the lunchboxes including the uncensored Doctor Manhattan.
- That would be AWESOME.
- This Troper saw some very uncomfortable parents when Nite Owl and Silk Spectre got their freak on in the Owlship.
- ... They just started getting uncomfortable at THAT part?! (There were children in front of us when This Troper went to see the movie. She has no idea how they reacted to, well, the many not kid-friendly things in the film, but she thinks they must have been scarred waaaay before that scene.)
- This Troper made a Big "NO!" when his mom suggested to bring my eight year old brother and some of his friends to see it, also like to point out she also rented the movie Virus for family night (we never let it down)
- This troper friends' parents are idiots and they brought their eight-year-old son with us when her family (all over the age of eight, thx) went to see it. She was like "uh, guys. guys. maybe someone should tell them this is a bad idea," And her mother said, AND I QUOTE, "But he saw the last Spider-Man!"
- This Troper went to see Watchmen a second time, not because I thought it was worth another ticket, but because the first time I went at least a dozen children under 5 years old started crying and screaming the moment the violence started and did not stop through the entire movie.
- This Troper saw what appeared to be a six year old and a baby not even a year old yet when she went to see Watchmen. Lord knows what the parents were thinking...
- This troper saw it when he was nine. He thought it was the coolest movie ever. Why should he have been afraid from the last scene? It was only god killing Nazis. To a Jewish kid it was extremely comforting...
- This troper just went through the entire list and took out the worst offenders she recognized. You're welcome.
- Did you recognize Rain Man (a movie starring Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman), the Harry Potter movies and the Mummy series?
- Actually, those all bring back fond childhood memories for this troper.
- This troper had trouble sleeping for weeks after reading the first book. The snake was scary, but it was the boiling oil that did it.
- This trooper can attest that watching Watership Down as a kid gave her nightmares for weeks.
- This Troper saw and loved the above-mentioned movie as a child, Nightmare Fuel notwithstanding, but she is aware that something is very, very wrong with her. Then again, maybe it didn't faze her because as a kid she "knew" the good guys were going to win.
- Well, your milage may vary. This Troper still has some of Wayne Barlowe's older books that she and her brother flipped through repeatedly as kids, and the pages are torn from years of flipping through it. Not really for kids, but we found the pictures more cool than creepy. (It was usually the adults who happened to see over our shoulders who got more creeped out than we did.)
- We had a copy of his Guide to Extraterrestrials in my classroom, which led to such wonders as me convincing the teacher's assistant to sketch an Elder Thing for me. Also, I was planning an Animal Farm school play, and the teacher actually encouraged me. I Am Not Making This Up.
- Thank you. Thank you. Black Beauty was written as an ANIMAL RIGHTS TRACT. For ADULTS. It was written to be utterly emotionally devastating to adults. It includes either depictions or descriptions of every dreadful thing that could happen to a horse in Victorian England. It's about a horse, so it must be a suitable book for children, especially horse-crazy little girls...
- This troper read it as a middle-schooler. Then she cried so hard she almost vomited.
- The Space trilogy (especially Out Of The Silent Planet), isn't anything like Narnia. Duh.
- Don't go back on a deal or you'll end up Frogking amphibians.
- I fail to see how Dumbledore being gay makes the book inappropriate for children. Certainly some imbeciles may believe that but then, said imbeciles believe all kinds of things that are nonsense.
- That's all subjective, but the main reason this is not really inappropriate is the fact that he is never even mentioned to be gay in the books.
- NO. Any kid over the age of 10 could stomach that.
- This troper will admit she felt a ill reading some of the graphic scenes at age 14 or so, though that might have just been because the books were so terrible.
- Yes, god forbid kids should be asked to THINK.
- Hell yes does it count.
- This troper recently went to see the play, knowing full well what to expect from it. What he didn't expect was to see a grandfather bringing an 8 year old boy to see it, or them both being dressed in tuxs.
- This Troper, who had seen it before, went with his parents, who had also seen it, and ten year old sister. The person at the ticket booth asked my parents if they knew what was in it, and they replied "Two puppets with nothing below the waist pretending to have sex." Incidentally, this troper loves his parents.
- ...Am I the only one who doesn't consider that to be completely awesome? I want one!
- This troper would only want one if he can attach it to his shirt in some way shape or form.
- I would recommend safety pins or some kind of velcro strip. Personally, this troper would like a facehugger to cuddle with on cold nights.
- Indeed. This Troper got his father (who works for the CDC studying Hepatitis) the Hep-C plush one year. He adored it.
- This troper's mother only bought that for him, age around 13/14, was because, despite the till lady's warnings about the rating, she'd bought me an 18 rated game 2 years earlier (Perfect Dark) and since that didn't mess me up thought it would be ok.
- Some kids just see it in its undetailed style, laugh it off and say "it's just a cartoon, real pets don't talk". I guess these kids are the ones we should fear the most...
- As far as animated shows meant for adults go, The Simpsons is probably the most kid friendly, especially since most of the adult stuff will probably go over their heads. But then you get to Itchy and Scratchy...
- Calling it the most kid-friendly current animated show for adults would probably be more accurate. Easily 90% of Rocky And Bullwinkle was intended for adults, not kids. What kid is going to understand what funny about a miniature boat made of ruby, even if it is called''the ruby yacht of Omar Kayyam"?
- But the public in general knows that Lord of the Flies is not for little kids!
This is a nice combination of Natter and Take That!, with a healthy helping of Wiki Schizophrenia and boatloads of ThisTroper's tales. Also: It's not necessary to add "A kid I know watched this and liked it" to every single item; there's surely at least one kid that liked anything in the world. Probably much of this could be moved to Troper Tales if anyone feels like it.
Mysticpenguin: Easily half of the Troper Tales page is people boasting about how young they were when they saw various adult movies/anime/games/etc (or about purposely giving them to kids who were way too young, WTF?). The trope appears to be about people who have no idea of a particular story's intended demographic. A few people claim to be subverting the trope, but the two topics have very little, if anything, to do with each other. I'm feeling cranky today and this page particularly irritated me, so I trimmed out most of the natter and off-topic examples.
Does it seem possible that A Song of Ice and Fire could fit here, or is that stretching it? I could certainly see a kid reading it thinking it is for kids...and then a scene with moderately vivid sexual intercourse pops up and...well, yeah. I just don't know if anyone ever assumed ASOIAF was kid-friendly at first glance.
Caswin: So... yay for Moral Guardianship?
