This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
rbloom: I've always seen the word "woobie" describe the fangirl idealization of bad boys, especially ones the writers mean to be unlikeable villains. (Draco, Spike, Dexter is the newest one)
Seanette: I think Dexter is meant to be rather likeable, if one can ignore or come to a mental accommodation with his hobby.
i8246i: Removed Avatar fan fighting. Save it for...well just keep it far away from here.
Seth:Willow in the early seasons of BTVS before she discovered her agency
A shiny cookie to whoever knows what this is suposed to say. I think it means before she discovered how good she was at magic or became a lesbian or some other thing that made her stronger. But discovered her agency just makes me shrug every time i read it.
Ayanami:... her agency
Indeed, I have no idea what an 'agency' is, which makes the article a tad unapprochable to someone who isn't steeped in BTVS lore. It'd be like someone saying "synch ratio" when referencing Evangelion.
Also, sup Osh and Chibi.
Seth: The thing is i am steeped in BTVS lore which is why i'm scratching my head.
Gus: Edited to remove the qualifier. 'Agency' means power. Anyway, it was off the point. Willow was made to suffer a lot because Alyson Hannigan was so good at portraying the pain.
Ununnilium: 'sup.
Tanto: For some reason that Metal Gear Solid example makes me recall the MGS Thumbnail Theater
:
Otacon: Don't feel bad that Meryl's dead, Snake. Wolf is dead, too, but our love will last forever!
Snake: "Your love"? You ninny, she was a suicidal psychotic junkie who lived to kill. She saw you as something slightly beneath dirt. Please don't compare my grief to your delusional fantasies.
Fly: Hee hee hee. I love that thing. Thanks to you I wasted an hour reading that and the MGS2 one out loud, doing all the voices.
Tanto: Not sure Sylphiel really counts...she shows up in something like seven episodes total, and there's no particular emphasis on her grief.
Gourd Captain: What's with the whole "Otacon going batshit insane in MGS 4" line? As a MGS fan, I'm just curious to see the source on that one.
C Trombley:I think at this point being an MGS character is grounds for being declared legally insane.
C Trombley:Great picture
Chris X: From this excerpt:
- Latooni from the Super Robot Wars Original Generation was turned into a expert pilot by way of intense training that killed most of the participants including the rest of Latooni's entire group. Two of her remaining classmates where brainwashed to kill her, and one of them died in a Heroic Sacrifice. Her best friend was kidnapped, and also brainwashed into killing her. Even worse she's stuck in a love triangle with Ryusei Date, and Mai Kobayashi, and she's at a disadvantage because Mai has a Combination Attack, in a series where love interest always have a combination attack.
The italicized one, I know it refers into Arado, Seolla and Ouka. But the bolded one, if it refers to Lamia, then I think it is wrong. She's not brainwashed by Duminuss to cause more pain exactly to Latooni, more like on her whole squad. If Duminuss does that for Latooni alone (or to a wider extent, the remaining School Kids), now that qualifies into something that would further increase her Woobie quality. Discuss?
Charred Knight: It's a reference to Princess Shine, Latooni's best friend who was kidnapped, and then brainwashed into trying to kill her within the Valsion.
Chris X: Likewise, I think that matter with Princess Shine wasn't directed especially to Latooni. Adler would more than likely to use Shine on the whole group rather than just Lat, idiotic as he may be, he really has not very much close link to The School Kids so much that all of Shine's brainwashing are just to spite on Latooni. I may be wrong, though.
Tinted: I realise that I'm mostly to blame for the Supernatural entries but is it wise for them to be that big? What with the show carrying on for two seasons, being almost a Sadist Show in the way it tortures them and with the massive Downer Ending of Season Three, it's going to take over the whole page if they carry on like that.
Sansa? There are plenty of characters more likeable characters who have a far worse time in A Song Of Ice And Fire than Sansa. This editor was never able to shake off the feeling that Sansa completely deserves her fate (which is actually quite mild in comparison to the rest of the characters) for being such a huge Libby earlier in the story.
Lina: I took the above off the main entry because it's natter. Plus I always find it disturbing that people think Sansa deserves to suffer because she was fickle and fought with her sister when she was 11. (Which, by the way, hardly qualifies her for The Libby.) Anyway, I rounded out the list with a few more examples. Other people feel free to pick at it, since I was guessing on some of those. (Hey, at the very least, Sansa is Sandor's woobie within the story. ;-)
Terrafire: I'm surprised you don't see Tyrion and Brienne as suffering. O.o Each of them suffers horribly, Tyrion from the fact that if he was taller and more handsome, he might actually be liked by the populace. Tyrion has done everything in his power to save the city, and he constantly makes very intellegent choices, yet nobody except Varys and Littlefinger realize, and so he's never praised for his management. Instead people hate him, and he needs to walk around with bodyguards, and the "Little monkey demon" or "freakish bastard" are popular names for the populace to give him. Brienne.... well, I'm sure you can see how Brienne suffers.
Lina: I do see how they suffer, but The Woobie isn't just about suffering, so I wasn't sure if they qualified. But that's why I called other tropers to fix the list, so thank you!
Sara: FE section edited to remove character bashing, kthx
Geekierthanthou: I propose dr. Horrible from 'dr. Horribles sing-along Blog'. And I also think the squirrel from Ice Age qualifies. They definetly deserve a hug!
Freezer: Removing the response to the Dominic Deegan entry. That some (many? Most?) in the fandom don't like Dom is mentioned in the original comment. And "mindrape"? Really?
Runespoor: Admittedly I'm biaised, but I'm not seeing the woobie in Ilyana. She doesn't have enough character development or backstory to fit the trope, somehow. On the other hand, Jill, Mist, or Pelleas might, due to the various horribleness of their circumstances.
Before he decided to kick the [[Idiot Ball]] and turn evil, couldn't [[Naruto Sasuke]] count for this trope? His father didn't care for him, he's always being compared to Itachi, his entire gene pool is removed in a single night by Itachi and Madara... It really helps that Sasuke used to be bloody adorable; maybe that could be a trope! Bad guys are always really cute kids! Of course, Gaara rules that trope x3 'Aww, you were so cute when you were little...' 'Shut up!'
Runespoor: If you feel something belongs in an article, you can add it. It's removal that needs justification in the discussion page. Also, I'm all for woobie Sasuke. Then again, a surprising number of Naruto characters fit the trope. (Hinata says hi. And kid Sakura, too. And Chouji. And Haku. And- yeah, you get the point.)
Grumman: Am I the only one who thinks the page has some... questionable examples? Maybe it needs one of those "Subjective Trope" labels, but examples like Wolverine, or Anakin Skywalker just seem way out there.
Red Sweater: Is this not a subjective trope, though? Even ignoring more questionable examples, this trope's article makes it sound pretty subjective: "A woobie (named for a child's security blanket) is that character you want to give a big hug, wrap in a blanket and feed soup to when he suffers so very beautifully. Woobification of a character is a curious, audience-driven phenomenon, divorced almost entirely from the character's canonical morality, as witnessed by the woobification of Lex Luthor on Smallville."
If the Woobie is an "audience-driven phenomenon," does that not mean that what character(s) are considered to be The Woobie can vary wildly from person-to-person? For instance, I feel intensely sorry for Sokka, a character usually defined as The Chew Toy, and sometimes feel the urge to give him a big hug (and I know I'm not the only person who feels this way about him), so does that make Sokka a Woobie?
i8246i: No.
Yubi Shines: Woah. Not that people really care about hearing roleplaying stories, but I just realized from reading this page: I've been playing a character I've repeatedly seen as boringly practical, nervously irresolute in crisis, and way too bogged down by (admittedly numerous) personal failures, get over it, emo kid. The folks in the RP group have all individually agreed that they want to give her cookies and tell her it's all going to be okay. How did my Butt-Monkey turn into a Woobie?
Michael: Because people are naturally kind? I was quite surprised to find the first two paragraphs of this page actually sum up my standpoint on bdsm perfectly.
Charred Knight: Added What a woobie is not to the definition, and deleted a ton of examples that where not woobies. Please note that a tragic past is not an example of The Woobie unless its played for utter sympathy. For example, Kefka's backstory is simply to tell us why his bat shit insane, and not to make us feely sympathetical as he commits atrocities.
Redwulf25: I would like to propose a subtype of woobie. The Woobie Pop starts out harsh, unlikable, possibly even evil, but once you penetrate the candy shell you find a soft Woobie center that just needs a hug. Charlote from Penny and Aggie is my inspiration here. Batshit crazy hateful fundie girl has of late been showing a much softer side after being shown just a little kindness herself and it's been hinted that her harsh nature may have been the result of some one Breaking the Cutie.
Rainbow: As I asked on the forum, is "Polly Anna" who gets abused really the definition of Butt-Monkey, while a Woobie is someone who complains/visibly suffers? I looked at the Butt-Monkey page and it doesn't say anything about being cheerful despite abuse. Also, can an author consider one of his/her own characters a woobie? Like if the author has a character he/she likes to see suffer yet also feels sorry for that character?
Thesunisup: Alphabatized the Anime/Woobie section, and my apologies if anything got lost in the rearranging process. Also, please God will someone trim down the Code Geass and Ranma 1/2 sections, because they're endless.
